Type 2 psychopathy maybe? That's possible but Probly just a lack of impulse control with underlying paraphilias . I think the onset of paraphila is the big WHY.
Right now i am sitting very close to my Aunt (much like them in the inrview), whom i am very close to but i am leaning far from her because i want to rest my right arm on the armrest. So, that analyze, imo could be very inaccurate; and at that point the have grown close together at that point
¿Son las religiones importantes? ¿Moldean las religiones tipos de comportamientos humanitarios? Los mayores asesinos en serie, desde supuestos líderes sociales, reyes y presidentes, hasta personas como Dahmer, se han excusado en Dios y su proyecto de vida para nosotros... Agradezco enormemente la visión de Netflix de este caso... Pero ver la entrevista real me ha dejado estupefacta... Lo mismo que él utilizó como excusa para sus actos, lo pienso yo sobre la responsabilidad individual, mi visión de moralidad, viene de mi agnosticismo... Para él significa ser Dios y controlar (“el extraño“ de Camus, me viene a la mente) Él no ve la ironía en sus palabras, yo veo la pobreza del sistema social y educativo... Y, al final, veo un ser humano lidiando con las consecuencias y tratando de mostrar que hay una razón o una expiación de sus actos... Realmente la serie es incómoda. Brillante (dirección, arte, actuación). Pero aún muestra los problemas con los que vivimos... Pobreza institucional y educativa, racismo y falta de investigación en psicología o psiquiatría... Parafraseando: "sabemos más de las estrellas y del universo, que lo que sabemos de nuestros cerebros y cómo o por qué funcionan como lo hacen"... Y no requiere dejar de investigar el universo, es entender que se pueden hacer y que se deben subvencionar las dos clases de investigaciones... Toma tiempo aprender que no es la decisión de Sofía, es reconocer que descuidar una o la otra, puede causar una catástrofe...
I agree. And I wonder if the sitting distance from his Father that the panel kept referring to and that we could blatantly see was 'perhaps' as a result of Dahmer wanting to be honest in the interview but putting some distance in between himself and his Dad. Whatever he had done, there is no getting away from the fact that his Dad loved and had always stuck by him. Dahmer would not have felt comfortable nor wanted his Dad to hear all the gory details, lies and psychology of his serial killer existence. I personally think that may have accounted for why the deeper the interview went into the planning, hiding of Dahmer's atrocities and his mindset, the more he edged away and distanced himself from his Dad.
@@jacquelineconsitt941 Absolutely but the important factor would be that his Father may not have been part of the sessions with the psychologists. His body language signified how he felt, whilst being questioned on certain matters, with his Dad sitting there taking it all in.
I remember reading Dahmer’s dad’s book when it came out and getting the gut feeling from it that his dad had sexually molested/abused him. I can’t recall exactly what led me to that impression because it was over 25 years ago. However, the suppressed rage and adolescent fantasies really point to being “betrayed” by one of the people in his life who was supposed to keep him safe. And I think dad is present for impression control, as well as plugging his book, kind of like how Gypsy Rose Blanchard’s mom used to squeeze her hand really hard if Gypsy Rose started saying something she wasn’t supposed to. Jeffrey may have been conditioned to deny dad’s fault in any of this, and his dad’s presence is to remind him of that. Jeffrey’s need to have complete control over his victims might be representative of his relationship with his father
Jodi, you bring some new insight in by having already read the book, and your impression that can very well be true.. I imagine he must of had a love hate relationship with his father especially while he was imprisoned, and visited by him.
When I see "calm" people I don't necessarily think they're peaceful. People have told me I look calm when I'm experiencing extreme anxiety or rage. It's all about learning to look calm on the outside, even if a storm is brewing inside
The final tragedy in this situation is that scientists were not given opportunity to study his brain for any medical insights ,especially given his mothers treatment with 29 various prescription medications including hormone treatments during her pregnancy with J.D. The victims deserved the pursuit of every possible avenue to find answers to why this happened.
Ya Def think that would’ve been good, and Lionel I think was afraid if they found out what was wrong with JD, that he had it too.. but deep down controlled it better maybe not to as such a terrible degree, But I think JD got some genetic mental issues from his dad
I was a waitress & He came in almost every morning for a coffee & a sandwich to go. He was always very quiet & polite. Seemed very happy to get a smile & Good Morning & when I remembered how he took his coffee, seemed genuinely surprised & pleased. I always felt kind of sorry for him for some reason.
Extreme loneliness and emotional pain brought this man to do evil and the unimaginable. His childhood and attachment disorder took his brain to a different universe…can’t even imagine how the victims families deal with the pain of their loved one murdered by this guy. His Dad is totally responsible for his lack of parenting skills, but Jeffrey taking responsibility for his actions is definitely a profound statement in his having agency for himself. Yes, Chase is so right; be mindful of your child’s dopamine receptors and erotic influences.
@@NicolaMaxwell yes, but if you have a mental illnes... things change a bit. would have been interesting to study his brain to search for abnormalities.
Jeff was the only mainstream serial killer who wasn't a clinical psychopath. He killed as the result of an out-of-control obsession/fetish with insides instead of out of sadism. That's where the confusion is coming in. Truly a sick but not evil man.
I think Mark was right on the money,,, I too don't like Dahmer but I dislike his father even more. That interview would have been so different if his father hadn't been sat beside him... He would not have been so guarded about the way he answered the interviewers questions. It's really surreal to see a man who has murdered so many people be so scared of his father and still be so much under his control. This was my favourite one too Scott.👍
The most animated I saw Dahmer get he was circling his arm towards his dad while talking about how the violence and the sex were all mixed up together. I believe this was at the same time his father had some lip compression and was gripping the arm of the chair with his little finger. I might be wrong about the sequence of these. I think there are some serious secrets there.
I don't like Jeffrey Dahmer but I think it's unfortunate that he was killed. I think he was willing to explain himself, probably more honestly than any other modern day serial killer. And we lost thar ability when an inmate killed him. I think there were positive benefits to having him in prison but able to be studied... his dad? The heck with that guy! He's probably a worse monster because he spent his last years painfully profiting off the horror. He painted himself as some respectable father, when in reality he was a narcissistic abuser, who beat his family then cashed in on the killings. I think his father is disgusting, and his death didn't hurt society a bit. Good riddance, no more book tours.
I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been for the psychiatrists and psychologists when they tried to get an idea of Jeff's childhood. It seems like he only focused on what he observed (my parents fought a lot) but never how he was affected by it, or how he was treated by each of his parents. He needed to take a harder look at his childhood to "find answers". When he says "where I had the FINAL say" was the most conviction he showed in the whole interview. What the hell happened to you as a kid where you didn't have the final say? The answer to your questions is right there.
Fascinating one, indeed! I’m with you guys. He was the most honest of all the serial killers and “psychopaths” you’ve analyzed. And, yes, that dad… Mark zones in on that early on. Great one, guys.
What I'll never understand about Jeff's dad is he couldn't accept the fact his son was gay but he seemed to shrug off the murder and eating of people. I definitely think his father caused some physiological damage (not excusing Jeff's behaviour at all what he did was beyond wrong) but rejection at a young age can cause problems in later life (and yes I understand not everyone who experiences trauma kills people), but everybody is built different and you just never know how your actions can mess people up in later life.
There are so many things I wanted to mention, I hope I remember them all. These won't be sequential, but here goes: 1. Dahmer sits tensed in most of the first part of the interview, comforting/shielding himself with the coffee cup while almost draping himself over his chair away from his father. Every time he adjusts himself, it looks like he's trying to move his chair away from his dad. 2. His dad sits in a chair with white armrests, but he places his arm on Dahmer's chair's armrest for a very long time, until the interviewer starts asking about the motives he had. When asked where the need to control came from, he says he didn't have control as a child or a young adult, and it's almost as if he is subtly accusing his dad; it is the only time his eyes move to his right to the point where his dad would most probably be clearly in his peripheral view while still facing the interviewer. At this (probably previously unacceptable) slight towards his dad, he claims the armrest from his dad for the rest of the interview. 3. When he talks about being left alone at home after The Divorce, he specifically mentions that his father only lived 5 miles away, but he had so little influence in Dahmer's life that he was, at 18, already drinking excessively. 4. When the interviewer asks him about any blame towards his mother or father, Dahmer nods when the interviewer mentions that he witnessed violent arguments from an early age, and continuing, and then that maybe that his father passed down a genetic propensity for obsessive and violent behaviour. This is when Dahmer says he can see why his dad would wonder about those things but as far as he is concerned, they are all excuses and that everyone should accept the blame for their behaviour. He goes from "I" statements, to saying "there comes a point where I think, a person has to, has to be accountable for what he's done. Can't go round making excuses, blaming other people..." My thoughts: Dahmer's father was possibly a violent, controlling, abusive person who would blame his behaviour on, among other things, genetics, probably exonerating himself by saying that HIS father had these traits, so he cannot help it and he is not to blame for it. I think this is the first time that Dahmer (again subtly) accused his father publically of abusing them/him without ever taking responsibility for his actions, and that even though he (Dahmer) is a monster, he can at least admit it and accept blame. I think this was a big punch in the gut for his dad, and that is why his dad feels the need to vindicate himself by making sure everyone knows that HE is honorable, righteous and praiseworthy for leading his son to salvation. When Dahmer looks at his father to respond, it is not in a casual, comfortable way. He almost squares up for a duel with his dad, staring daggers at him. 5. When asked if he was accountable to his parents when growing up, he puts an unusual amount of emphasis on the word "discipline". I think he was severely abused. 6. Dahmer probably lived a nightmare from a young age, was exposed to violence on a regular basis, exposed to sex, and started having dark fantasies about the things he was exposed to. He was homosexual, which was unacceptable in most households and would probably have caused even greater issues in the house. Then he was completely abandoned. Self medicated with alcohol. The ONE time things just fell in place was when he picked up the first hitchhiker and commited his first murder. First experience of control, fueled with alcohol, deep anger, deep hate, and being "nurtured" with violence and obsession created The Jeffrey Dahmer Monster.
Very good! But I would add that Jeffrey's homosexuality intermingled with violence was instigated by his own father abusing him sexually since he was a child, not just beating him. Many signs point to this.
I remember watching that interview years ago, but when watching it, there's definitely something off about his father. The mother (when she was interviewed separately) seemed more dismissive and much more anxious than the father. Just my personal opinion, but I think at the core of Dahmer's psyche was that he felt completely abandoned by both of his parents.
I really wish they got into his mother at all. Not blaming one over the other or saying one is more to blame than the other. The mother just seemed so off. At one point the mother is bringing up woman not being blamed for these issues of raising a terrible child. She had someone with her too who would interject, if I remember it was a lawyer?
This is why I've always been fascinated by the psychology of Dahmer. He's a monster yes, but not a psychopath. I can't think of another serial killer like him.
Could he be on autistic spectrum… his explanation about why he did what he did… sounds like psychological rhetoric.. then the end… he confessed..”it was lust, that was it..” I think there’s religious shame… which can condemn vs bring freedom… anyway.. sounds like some autism can bring him to some strange ways of copping with his (shameful) sexuality… I bet he was told that he would, “eat the fruit of his sin…”. Ok… back to interview…
What about the one that killed a bunch of prostitutes and ate the vaginas of two victims but is now some type of long distance prison grandpa to the kids of his unknown until she found him, daughter?
What's scary is how calm JD comes across and how quiet and unassuming he seems. Without knowing his crimes you would think he's quite a decent guy, thoughtful before he speaks and almost seems intune with all emotions but underneath that mask lies a very broken and seething man. That's the scariest thing for me. How bloody normal he seems until you pick apart his words.
I'm on board with not liking Jeffrey but I dislike the dad equally or more. Working in behavioral health, I spend a lot of time assessing family dynamics and my money goes to this dad as physically and emotionally abusive...likely the home had to meet his exacting expectations i.e not too much noise, everything in its place and his words were law so to speak. I doubt this man expressed genuine feelings or affection and Jeffrey probably had no modeling of that, making it impossible for him to recognize or process his own emotions. This Dad is here to pat himself on the back and make sure he is seen as a hero of sorts and definitely not at fault for what his son has done. He might toss all these ideas around in a book but this guy is a narcissist and wants to be exonerated of any part. He's less than a joke. Very disturbed dad to a very disturbed son. That's my two cents.
I would recommend looking into his mother. She was known to yell a lot, and she was very neurotic. I believe both he and his father are both on the spectrum of autism. I'm not saying I'm any way that him being on the spectrum made him do this or that people with autism are likely to do things like this. I'm just saying that it could explain the uncomfortable body language. But back to the issues with his mother, there are a couple interviews with her and interviews with others that talk about how she was. She also left her barely 18 year old son alone in the house and moved away with his little brother. I would suggest lack of maternal instinct. I think both parents however were not paying attention to their son.
As a potential abuser to Jeffrey in his past, should he be allowed in the same room with him? (Outside of therapy) It just seems to me that if he's part of the reason we're all here, if he's part of what set J on this track and caused emotional abuse, then he should be kept away from this man.
@@Ryan-mq2mi I agree with you and definitely not excusing Jeffrey in any way. I'm just looking at the big picture. His behavior is horrific and I don't minimize it at all. I do look at the bigger picture because it's important in my field. That said, it's not meant to excuse or minimize what he did. He was a monster. It's the making of the monster that I'm exploring
narcissism and sociopathy need both the genetic component and the environment to develop. Dahmer’s father gave him both - the genetic predisposition and the abvsive environment. Jeffery never had a chance.
At age 18, Jeffrey's mother moved out of state with his younger brother, leaving him in the house alone, no food, no job, no support (he had no friends). She did not inform Lionel where they moved and he spent a lot of time tracking them down. Jeffrey stated that his only motive for the murders was to keep someone with him forever (body parts), maybe connected to the abandonment by his mom.
Listen this doesn't look good on paper, but I CAN feel sorry for Jeffrey Dhamer. I can feel all the violence, overcontrol, loneliness, anger, confusion, rejection stirring inside him under the oppressing need for his father's approval etc etc. He is a victim that turned inhumanely gruesome. Bundy just FELT HORRIBLY PLEASED by what he did and knew it wasn't ok to look proud about it. Dhamer didn't. He wasn't proud, he just looks very disassociated most of the time.He was not a sadist,he didn't enjoy the kill, his methods testify to it. He just wanted to be in total control and he dreaded abandonement. If you sum it up with being raised possibly without real empathy and around violence and with the fact that he "just couldn't fit"....I think this made him a monster. Not excuses,tho', just possible explanation. There is something "innately" malignant and luciferian about people like Bundy but I can't seem to see it in Dhamer. I just see a child gone VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG.
What your'e talking about is psychopathy...evil, or the absence of empathy that makes us human...Dahmer was not diagnosed with psychopathy and yes he had a conscience and had remorse. Bundy and others did not
Dahmer's father was on his "I didn't help create this" tour, which has the exact opposite impact. It feels as if he was pivotal in creating the monster that Dahmer became.
He also placed a lot of the responsibility on his wife/Jeff's mother. I have always felt suspicious when someone is so quick to point fingers. Whether it's true or not, we'll never really know. I wish Dahmer had opened up more about his feelings but there was Dad, right next to him, his presence seemed stifling...
Expert forensic psychologists have stated that Dahmer was not a psychopath and showed no psychopathic features. He was a "sociopath" - which is different - and he also communicated remorse and self-responsibility both in interviews and at his trial, with no signs of self-appraisal. There was a lot of insecurity in his childhood, especially with his mother being emotionally unavailable to him from infancy and witnessing continuous abusive arguments between his parents. His mother seemed very self-centred and controlling, and she also took a lot of heavy drugs during her pregnancy with JD (including opioids), which his father didn't like and tried to stop. The epigenetic effects of this may well have affected the developing foetus, as well as exposure to his mother's emotional distress. JD's mother suddenly abandoned him as a teenager, only taking his younger brother. He had happy memories of his father paying him interest and attention when they gutted fish together or when dealing with dead animals - so he may have connected affection and attention to this, and his fascination with animal corpses grew. Insecurity and abandonment seemed to be strong ongoing features of his childhood, and there were definitely attachment issues with his mother. He was emotionally closer to his father than to his mother, and confiding in them about his sexuality wasn't possible in his view. From interviews I've watched with him and looking into his background, it seems his mother had narcissistic and BPD traits. Also, his dad's encouragement to dispel evolution (very strange for a scientist) and turn towards Jesus is a way of accepting no part to play in his son's emotional development - showing his dad kind of brainwashed his son to not blame his parents for anything; a further indication that the father still maintained control. JD came across as quite introverted and intelligent, but needing love and recognition from his father allowed his dad that control. I'm a forensic psychology student by the way, hence my interest in the JD case.
There’s no such thing as a sociopath. That’s just a word that is used instead of psychopath because psychopath sound so bad. We actually talk about what you’re referring to in the episode.
This may sound strange, but I've always felt a little sorry for Dahmer's childhood experiences. Not that I condone or accept his choices! It seems he was done wrong and, with his characteristics, a recipe for future horrific acts came together. I think that some people can exhibit evil behavior and simultaneously despise their choices. I watched him at his trial where he stood and said, "I deserve death. I believe I'm evil. " He caused immeasurable pain to many many victims and their friends and families. He was one of the worst people who walked the Earth. He at least took responsibility and seemed cognizant of his sickness.
That was an act. Don't fall for it. There are several reports where he would taunt his jailmates and do stupid things which led to almost none of them liking him. He was a weirdo outside and a weirdo in jail. He was evil until his death and he liked to mess around with people psychologically if he couldn't do it violently. Just because he called himself evil doesn't mean he took responsibility. Most people know who they are, even the bad guys. Taking responsibility would have meant to sincerely apologize and show remorse, which he completely lacks. There is nothing wrong with feeling sorry for a child going through harm. I also take pity when hearing of some of the horrid things many serial killers had experienced as a child. No child deserves to be abused.
@@SummeRain783 I disagree with much of this. Sounds like your not factoring in all the facts and your just judging. That's not our place. Our place is to understand his mind and what made him do what he did. Do u know the ins and outs of his case?
@@SummeRain783 I think the reason why he can be hard to read is because he most likely was on the autism spectrum. So the feelings were likely there but he had trouble with expressing them. I think the taunting (if true) was most likely to provoke his inmates so that they would hurt him. Because I think he kind of hated himself and wanted to die. Apparently his last words were (right before getting murdered) "I don't care if I live or die, go ahead and kill me"
@@SummeRain783 Actually that was never confirmed by anyone except the person who killed him that he would taunt them. Not one psychologist, psychiatrist, warden, mate, etc ever said that. Rather, a psychologist, colleague of mine agreed that his personality is nothing like that at all. It goes against his social disorders and sociopathy. It was said that he did that but never confirmed. It is also said that he was killed because he was gay. Also not confirmed. Bottomline; All sad.
He comes across as very honest and he realises exact impact he has had Also feels more as if he is trying to help with data by letting the world know how and why/or lack of why he did what he did. Just my feel
That being said, he's telling the truth but not all of it because his dad is there, trying to sell his book. I would be so interested in seeing this interview without the father there.
Jeffery Dahmer is a special case for me. This is because I feel some sympathy for him, but at the same time, I am completely revolted by his crimes. I guess that makes me human. But, a conflicted human. I saw some of the photos of his victims. They are by far, the most disturbing images that I have ever seen.
I think the missing link to understanding what drove Dahmer to commit such deviant behavior is to understand that psychologically, cannibalism is a way to connect with someone. When he eats them, he merges them into himself. He was driven by hopelessness and loneliness. That’s not psychopathy. I believe psychopaths are lonely, but they have no awareness of it. They despise human connection. Dahmer, on the other hand, craved it so intensely that he was willing to eat people to feel it, just a little.
I agree with you 💯 ! Jeffrey was trying so hard to figure out who he is ! He's a Midwest young guy figuring out he's gay and that's not ok with mom dad or peers! So he's already an outcast, next dad just left him in a house with no family. This affirms that no one wants to be around him not even family! I believe he had abandonment disorders and yes he had feelings about everything he did and every life he took. He just wanted to have someone and keep them without that person having any drive to leave.
oh yeah. he even said that he wanted these people to “be a permanent part of him.” it calls to mind communion and transubstantiation. when christians eat the “body and blood” of christ, it’s meant to symbolize the internalization of christ’s message. if you are what you eat, then jesus is always a part of them. similar logic with jeff, i’m sure. jeff wasn’t a psychopath so much as most likely autistic [never assessed, but that’s because the definition of autism wasn’t expanded until 1994 - 2 years after his trial, as well as the year he was killed], BPD, schizotypal, and addicted to sex. and traumatized as well. he had learned from an early age to dissociate and escape into his own mind. also, he was never taught how to work with his own emotions or even identify them properly, and he was the type of person who would’ve needed EXTRA attention and guidance with regards to that. we’re often so quick to try to put a one-size-fits-all answer on things like this, probably because of how shocking they are and how we [thankfully] can’t even imagine doing anything close to what jeff did. but in his case, it was an especially complex and unfortunate stew of events that influenced him to make those decisions. it’s really sad, because i think he could’ve been a good person if he’d decided to get help and confess to his first murder instead of trying to handle it all on his own and eventually giving in. he tragically chose his own immediate freedom and avoidance of shame over human beings’ lives. none of this excuses his behaviour at all. he still made horrible choices and must always be held accountable for that. but it might provide a background as to why he made the SPECIFIC bad choices he did.
Jeffrey Dahmer was a " bad seed".,he was born to kill.sometimes you see it evolving in early years,but sometimes it manifests later on in life.its not like Chris Watts who had a : psychotic episode" and anialated his whole family,Dahmer was never going to be rehabilitated,that's an impossibility,and I am convinced that coldblooded serial killers are NOT nurtured,they are so by nature,born with it..
This was really fascinating. I've seen that interview before, a long time ago, and I was struck again by how "normal" Jeffrey seemed (me, being a layperson). Though his affect was fairly flat, he seemed to think clearly, he seemed to understand right from wrong, He didn't seem to try to glorify any of his actions, etc. And yet, we all know what he did. I find him completely abhorrent and yet so oddly "regular". He's very confusing. I haven't read up on Jeffrey's childhood or anything about his dad, but I got the same feelings that you did about him. I don't know what's true, but I can't help but wonder what kind of horror Jeff's childhood was due to his dad. smh
Think "mother"... not just his father. "Because Lionel was busy with his own doctoral studies, he was often absent from the home. And Joyce Dahmer, according to Lionel, was far from an ideal mother. He alleged that she was on prescription drugs while pregnant to Jeffrey, and was mentally unstable after she gave birth to him."
He is actually described as an absent father. And for his mother, she was on medication for some mental instability and tried to kill herself a few times when Jefrrey was a boy; plus, she was in a psychiatric hospital when he was 10 years old. Both of the parents engaged in several discussions that were on the violent side. This isolated him in his world more. And later on (during the divorce I believe) she abandoned him, taking his brother with her, but leaving him alone; his father was staying in a motel, so Jeffrey had the house for himself. Just a few weeks after he killed for the first time.
I think that both his parents were neglectful and maybe even abusive to some extent. But he was close with the family dog, maybe because the dog was the only one who gave him unconditional love? And I think the reason why he can be hard to read body language wise is because he very likely was on the autism spectrum. The feelings were there, but he had trouble with expressing them.
When I first saw how far Jeffrey was leaning away from his father I felt sick to my stomach and so uncomfortable. To me that is an automatic response to sitting next to your abuser. Later when his father was directly staring at Jeffrey I felt like he was trying to control him through fear and intimidation. Even though Jeffrey wasn’t looking at his father , you can physically feel something like that. It’s possible that Jeffrey is more relaxed because he really has nothing to hide. Also his father may feel very nervous because he could have a lot to hide, and at different times during the interview used looking at him, or touching his shoulder to keep control. Oh now Jeffrey, we’re not going to talk about how I found the boxes. Stone Phillips was one of my favorites. I appreciated that you mainly focused on the psychology and not on the horrific crimes. The little that was said was enough. Great to see you Scott. 😊
Good point because as I think about theGary Heidnik story (something I suggested). it’s just horrific, But it is the psychology that makes it interesting
Greg..."sometimes monsters are just monsters". I have a friend who was the shrink for the sexual predators in the prison Dalmer would have ended up in, had he lived, who told me two things " They are just wired differently than the rest of us" and when I asked when you could trust them, she said " when they are 6 ft under".
The message his father sends him after the divorce is he would rather stay in a hotel room only 5 miles away, then with his son. Meanwhile, Jeffrey is extremely lonely, abandoned by 2 horrible parents. He is then desperately fearful of being left again.
His mother kicked his father out of the house and his father did not know that his mother left.. he had to promise not to tell his father that she left. When his father found out that his son lived alone he moved back in with him
So interesting that Mark, not knowing much about this case, picked up on Jeffrey's father also having obsessive thoughts but succeeded in controlling them. His father admitted to having such thoughts.
I'm with Mark. Serious "uh oh" feelings around the Dad. He's there to governor his son and keep if from revealing anything. The book is to "set the record straight" so if Jeffery says anything revealing about his dad, he could say, "that wasn't me, that was the neighbor."
When Jeffrey says "... I felt I had no control as a child or young adult..." there is a literal CLUSTERFUCK. Not only is *he* gesticulating towards his dad, his eyes are also toward that side of himself, he is soooo far away from his dad as possible without it looking too obvious (in his mind maybe). But also the FATHER clears his throat at that exact moment when Jeffrey says "no control as a child or young adult", AND looks at the interviewer to check his reaction. Is daddy uncomfortable? Surely. But Dahmer talks about drilling holes in skulls and pouring acid in them... Nothing from the dad. But when Jeffrey talks about his family life? What *I* see is the parent SIGNALING to his child. Controlling and/or narcissistic parents love giving signals to the kids keep them on check, and the kids are so attuned, so "well trained" to pick up on it. Jeffrey tries to say something about his childhood and dad is going "careful what you're saying!" And the SECOND after that it's the first time he actually pipes up to climb back on his high horse to have Jeffrey (not himself) tell everyone that HE, daddy dearest, made his kid believe in God, made him change. Omg, I hate his father so much!
Also the whole "a person has to be held accountable for what he's done"... Since this is directly after the childhood part... Jeffrey might be talking not only about himself but his father (maybe that's why he switched to "people" rather than referring to himself alone. And THEN pops chimes in with the saviour signal so Jeffrey can praise daddy for making him better. Arrgghhh! That man!
I'm pretty convinced (from my own experiences with people) that Dahmer's father is hiding a lot of details about Jeffrey's upbringing and home life. Victims of severe child abuse are usually loners because of their inability to relate to their more innocent and sheltered peers. Dahmer's father wrote the book and sought his own publicity not only to capitalize on what was happening, but as a form of damage control on his own reputation. This is one reason why he might be so anxious during the interview. For all we know he's fearful that Jeffrey's about to say, "Oh yeah, and there were those times dad snuck into my room at night." Child victims tend to keep their parents secrets. I could be projecting, but all the telltale signs are there. Edit: It's also likely the main reason Lionel was so involved with Jeffrey during this time was to establish some control over him so he wouldn't spill any beans. Monthly prison visits sound obligatory, not loving (if someone I loved was in prison, I'd visit as often as I could). Being present in interviews with Jeffrey, he doesn't give off an impression that he's there for emotional support. He's there to control the situation and defend himself if any dirty laundry comes up. Just my analysis based on growing up around covert predators.
completely agree. dad looks like he's dreading what might be said and concerned son insisted he do this international tv interview with him. you can see son holding back but suggesting there is reason for what he did, he knows well bad stuff happened to him as a child and is keeping it to himself, but appears to be exercising power over dad. furthermore, asked what he and his dad discuss, dahmer states: 12:16 - here dahmer alludes to his childhood being prison-like - possibly suggesting to dad that ''you yourself may be experiencing prison if i so choose' - how things used to be - what prison life is like HERE, as in: prison life there and here. i'm of the opinion that dahmer was sexually abused during his childhood, perhaps early and it stopped, maybe throughout. some bad stuff was happening at home, but never any domestic calls, never teachers or family noticing bruises or other signs of violence. what does that leave?
@@BrainDamageComedy I have some ideas. Feel free to tell me if I'm reaching/projecting. Warning - I tend to over explain. Sorry if it's too much to read through. Skip to the last paragraph which pretty much answers your question. My grandfather was/is a pedophile. Seemed to prefer pre-adolescent girls, even as young as 3. He was also a teacher and principal with the public schools his entire career, with several transfers because of misconduct with secretaries (adult female staff). Parents of students had accused him of molestation and he lawyered up and transferred schools. My aunt (his daughter) shows signs of grooming (behaving sexual around him) and my father is criminally insane (I have no relationship with either). Predators are hard to corner when they're smart and no one is trying to investigate, but the telltale signs are in the behaviors of those they have power over. There are also issues with Dahmer's mother, which I also identify with. My mom would lay in bed all day and neglected me (father was in prison during childhood). No play, most attention was negative, she was easily stressed and couldn't emotionally handle being a mom. I played alone most of my childhood, especially once videogames and social media became part of our culture. I didn't have a phone or game console, and had no way to relate to my peers. I was isolated. I still feel unworthy of love or human contact as an adult, and I still struggle to connect to people (I'm super empathetic tho and love animals, don't worry lol). Anyway, living under parents who have dangerous skeletons in their closet tend to be more controlling and isolating toward their children to keep their secrets.
@@darkdork1012 again, very interesting. im sorry to hear what youve been dealing with - glad things are going better/ good now. there were definite issues with dahmer and his dad. someone pointed out in another comment that the mother left, taking the little brother but left dahmer behind in the house - i wonder if he was behaving in ways that got her out of there / got her to remove the little brother? maybe there was more going on openly or was discovered.
He wasn't. He had borderline personality disorder (look up the top symptoms!). Psychopaths cannot feel empathy or remorse, which doesn't align with Dahmer's MO. Lots of people cite his statement that if he hadn't been caught, he'd still be killing but he couldn't stop himself from doing it as proof of psychopathy.... But he also said how relieved he was that he was caught so that he couldn't do it anymore.
The way Dahmer leans so far away from his father during that interview. The father's book about his son is so sick. I sense he has such contempt and anger about his father. I bet his father did a lot of violence towards the mother. Divorced. Maybe his own father sexually abused him? To kill, cut up and then eat other people must take a certain level of sustained rage.
Not a psychopath, his doctors even said this. He did not test positive for it... he killed because he couldn't control his paraphilia but he was not a psychopath.
I like how you are now showing little video clips while simultaneously describing the behavior. This was something that I was looking for as a reference indicator. Loving your show. Keep up the great work guys!
That’s what I think. And if you are raised by a narcissist, you ma not have a good sense of self. Seems like he got no love, When he talked about going out and finding someone to act out his fantasy, I felt like he was going to say “ I’m going to do to him just like it was done to me” but he stopped himself
For someone who uses distancing language a ton to subtle transfer blame. I feel willing to believe Dahmer when he says an event that could be passively blamed for everything didn't happen.
@@albino5995 Oh no no no, absolutely not (imo). At this point for Jeffery, his father means nothing to him! As a threat. I believe he wouldn't dance around it and his dad is, by no means, there to make sure certain "somethings" aren't said. That makes no sense. I mean, really think about the reasons why you came to that conclusion. And I l did try, a couple different angles after reading your and the other comment. But it just doesn't make sense. Imo Cheers x
I agree, Dredd. I noticed that all while Dahmer was talking about his dad, his dad was staring straight at the interviewer, like he was making sure he was buying it. I can tell you which one I'd rather have coffee with.
When he mentions his mother, he states that she was with her family, not our other family members. He doesn't feel a part of the family. Since his mother was never there for him, when he found a connection with his father, it became an unhealthy connection. Then his father abandoning him after the divorce, it finally broke him.
@@filukkasunivers2389 , yes, i know that and agree, but i wonder if he wrote off his mess of a mother years before, then connected deeply, to an unhealthy level with his father. I believe then he felt abandoned by his father, especially living so close in the hotel, and not even maintaining any contact with him. (Wow, first time i commented from my tablet, what a mess, lol. Just adjusted it on my phone).
@@patriciaconnorspaszek6259 - 100%. jeff’s main thing was exerting complete control and dominance over someone else. i’m pretty sure that he had no other concept of how an interpersonal relationship should be. if you listen to the whole interview, there’s a point at which he says he wanted to “be the one who had complete control” - as though relationships couldn’t possibly work any other way. this was likely modelled for him by his parents as he was growing up, and he never really made any friendships that involved an equal give-and-take dynamic - his high school “friends” basically just saw him as a mascot and a punchline. and given that his mom never even held him as a baby aside from family photos, he never really learned what a genuine relationship consisted of. and his father kept a tight rein on him all throughout his 20s and into his 30s - aside from his secret murderous rampage, nothing in his life was really his own choice. certainly doesn’t excuse how he chose to handle it - he should’ve sought help before he ever hurt anyone. but it shows you what circumstances he came from that influenced what type of killer he became.
Thinking about an isolated sensitive child, who has experienced multiple traumatic fights between mother and father, and then instead of Dad supporting child to identify and verbalise feelings, or understand Dads scary behavior ( parents fighting terrifies children), Dad takes son out and imprints him with gory taxidermy, living things are just meat, to process. I can see how that would evolve tremendous horror, mortal terror ( will Dad do this to Mum, or me?) disassociation, compartmentalisation. Combined with final blow of mums abandonment ( she took the brother to safety, not him) then years more isolation.......plenty of fodder there for massive psychological damage. Tragic and sadly the buck did not stop there.
I think his father is still trying to control him. That’s why he visits him so much in prison, to maintain some type of control or space in his son’s head. If JD’s main reason for doing the things he did was control, it is interesting that his Dad wrote a book about the actions his son took to gain that control. Taking the spot light off of his son and putting it partially on himself is just one more way to demonstrate his control over his son. It’s no longer his thing, it’s our thing.
His parents failed him. They never showed him love, they fought constantly in front of him, and who know what else was done to him. They then left him alone in that house for months. The perfect setting for what he had always dreamed of doing. What he did was absolutely his fault and his choice but no wonder he had so much rage, self loathing, and need to control something in his life.
Jeffrey Dahmer was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, co-morbid with schizotypal personality disorder, and an antisocial disorder. So his primary problem was that he was terrified of being abandoned and alone. That's why he kept his victims and ate them so they would become part of him and in his mind thought it would make him feel less lonely and unloved. In That way, they also could never leave him.😬😱
Schizotypal PD was one of the disorders that normal-IQ autistic adults got diagnosed with back in those days. Given that like schizotypal PD, autism often runs in the same families as schizophrenia, it's possible that so-called schizotypal PD is always just what normal-IQ autism looks like when it's caused by specific schizophrenia-overlapping subsets of the neurobiological pathways involved. These families are the ones where autism is associated with smaller head circumference than average. In other families, autism runs along with completely different sets of conditions, often associated with a large head circumference instead, and normal-IQ autistic members of those families don't meet the criteria for schizotypal PD.
I have to mention to Mark Howden - apparently the father DID have deviant thoughts and fantasies that he somehow controlled. He talked about how he felt that he "made Jeffrey this way" because it was passed down to him. So Mark was 100% right on about the Dad having some knowledge about the internal struggle.
I think it’s possible (whether consciously, or unconsciously) he was taking away control from the father by saying “I and I alone am responsible” ... and suddenly at that point is when the dad jumps in with a leading question and in doing so is saying well, even your thought on responsibility was formed because of me”. It’s a very odd and subtle power/control struggle.
It’s so messed up because compared to many other serial killer interviews, I almost forget how much pain he’s caused people. He comes across reserved, polite and mild tempered. When I’ve watched people like Ted Bundy, he gives off such a creepy energy. But with Dahmer I would likely be fooled if I didn’t know about his crimes. In the end, the people he harmed are the ones who never had a voice, yet he gets the interview. It’s all fucked up.
agreed bundy makes me so uncomfortable in interviews...he has negative energy...what do u think of ed kemper? i hope the 4 wise men do it..they sure get asked an awful lot by so many..kemper is an anamoly..he may have had reactive attachment disorder too from neglect abuse and lack of attention and affection and love from his mother who everyone said was horrible..her ex husband said he preferred the war actual battle zones to being married or living with her
Bundy was another disorder, NPD...psychopath. When I see Manson, Bundy and Gacy...I don't feel bad for them at all. The disorders are different which would explain the different engaging reactions
I lived in Milwaukee during this time (went to school at Marquette University) and as a Criminology major, we took deep dives into Dahmer & his serious departures from "textbook" psychopaths. We kind of came to the conclusion that he had serious psychotic breaks & potential fugue states early on during the murders, but was very conscious of his behaviorduring his "experiments". Worse, the predominantly secretive nature of the underground gay scene in a smaller mid-western city like Milwaukee helped him blend his murderous secrets with the "expected" secrecy/shame of closeted gay men. By the time he held this interview he had been well medicated (and no longer self-medicating with blackout levels of alcohol) & I feel he was finally able to think clearly and really be insightful about his own abhorrent behavior...to the point that I think he may have in some ways committed "suicide by inmate." His newfound belief in God probably made him feel like suicide wasn't an acceptable option, but putting himself in a position to be killed was a viable way out.
YASSSSS 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 The death by inmate was a bonus to getting some amusement. I suspect the new belief system was just a tweak in the “personality” and his only hope for salvation - he likely believed such a person as JC existed and found some sort of enlightenment and figured he’d try out the conceit if Of faith
Greg, Jeff never raged. When he was arrested, he was defeated. He was relieved. He calmly confessed to everything. He has only ever been exactly like you see him here, in every single interview, in every interrogation, in every recording, in every home movie, in court, in high school.
DAD is there because... censorship. The father inserts himself into the entire sons' trial and outward information. I think the father had a lot more to do with the sons' behaviour than they both admit to. The mom hits the nail on the NETFLIX special... "what were you two DOING down there taxidermy-ing those animals. It's wasn't natural". The father has demonstrated gaslighting behaviour on both the first wife and son... which is typical of ...hmmmm, narcissism. Can't stand not being the centre of attention, inserting himself into the action.. There is far far far more going on with the papa than meets the eye here.
Why did the father leave Jeffrey alone after his wife left? In my opinion, he didnt care how that affected Jeffrey. Also the father admitted that he had the same thoughts but never acted on them. In a weird way I think Jeffrey was trying to make his father stay. And the mother fought all the time with the father so it doesnt seem to me that he wanted her to stay. He wanted his father. As a teenager, he needed his father. No one should be left alone after a major life event like divorce or death .
The mother did an interview that was broadcast on tv decades ago & she discussed her battle with depression & how Lionel was not sympathetic, not compassionate, & did not try to get help for her. She described a cold & removed from her issues husband. Who was also cold & removed from Jeffrey's need to be protected, loved, & cared for while his mother was sick. Instead Lionel was furious that his family wasn't perfect. He ruled with shouting at them & storming out. IMO Jeffrey numbed himself with alcohol like his mother did with RXs & he needed someone to control but not love like his father was with him. Obviously lots of other experiences were added in to create this wretched human. He went to prison in 1992 & was killed by another inmate in 1994.
There were several problems in that family for sure. Joyce abandoned him but gave him a chance to go with her; she even begged him to go. Lionel and his wife Shari left him, and he never asked Jeffrey to join them. Joyce begged him to come with her and David when she was about to leave their house. Patrick Kennedy (the cop who interrogated Jeffrey for an extended period of time) stated: "Jeffrey just stood there and was "frozen" so she just decided to leave without him, paranoid that Lionel would catch them leave." (you can also find this in the book "Shrine of Jeffrey") Joyce tried to get Jeffrey to go to California, but he did not want to. (He later regretted not going there and wished he did instead of working at the Ambrosia, which was noted in a letter he sent to Joyce from prison.). I'm not saying she doesn't have any problems. Still, there are a lot of things that could be improved about the Netflix series and misconceptions overall. For me, Lionel was always trying to get attention, and it was indeed something like, "look, I'm a good father; look at me here saying all these things for you to believe me while I try to hide what I don't want anyone to know."
I call stories like this the unpunishable crime. Granted I don't condone anything Dahmer did, and realize he is very deeply disturbed. What infuriates me is that a parent can abuse their child to the point of actually rewiring their brain, and/or push their child into a complete point of maladaptive behavior that renders them anywhere from being unable to successfully survive in Society, and in this case, up to committing heinous crimes. They're never held accountable. Up until this episode, I assumed Dahmer was a Psychopath, but can now see he is a mixed bag of a lot of damage and dx's. That dad is still alive, and imo, probly more of a monster than his Son. I refuse to read his book, as it probly contains only stories to steer himself clear of any wrong doing. Some great revelations here guys- thoroughly interesting ,and disturbing
When this was first breaking in the mid-'80s, I recall thinking that I would have loved to know JD while while he was a teenager. He was an intelligent man, though he misused his intelligence and ended up nullifying a lot of it by his actions. I would have enjoyed knowing him before he acted on any of his dark fantasies because underneath it all he was an interesting and complex human being.
Na, he wasn’t abused. Maybe neglected. He’s always been sick. Into animal parts, road kill ect. Sense a child. I went thru way worse. I’ve seen people endure WAY worse as a child. He’s a monster.
I also doubt that Dahmer was abused. At least I don’t think that he was abused by his father. You can tell that there is a mutual affection between the father and the son.
He can't talk freely because his dad is sitting right there beside him. He and the dad both know very well that the father is to blame for so much of what happened to him as a child. As Jeffrey answers questions, the dad looks at him as if he (Jeffrey) is a spectacle of some sort, an atrocity but he knows in his heart that he created that atrocity, just doesn't want to accept his part. I am fully aware of the horrors he committed, yet I can't help but feel sorry for him.
Jeff’s dad must have done such horrible things to him & continued to control the narrative til the end. I pray for all the victims of abuse who have suffered & continue to suffer 🙏
I think the fact that his father and he would pick up road kill and dissect it together could have been the key to everything. They were “buddies in death.” Think about it: teaching a kid to take apart dead animals…ugh.
Not that much different from growing up hunting and fishing. Don't think it would've been a factor if he had a healthy childhood otherwise. And his genetic predisposition obviously didn't help
Except that Jeffrey actually said that this was a huge influence. Not that his father created the monster in him; but this experience was one thing that brought it out. Other kids who hunt with their fathers would not be effected by it in a violent way.
There isn't anything wrong with dissenting animals for research. It may not be something most people are into, but it's not like he was torturing animals. He was dissecting animals that were already dead.
I find him fascinating. He's so unusual in comparison to other serial killers. He seems to be far more self aware, or at least self reflective. A self reflective monster??? What on earth is this???? His case is so mind bending.
The father to me seems like a definite narcissist. You can see him hold back the anger when Jeffrey insinuates the means to and end was because he had no power as a child. But the moment Jeffrey gives his father back the power by saying it's all his own fault his father grins with narcissist excitement. I would bet Jeffrey was heavily abused as a child and possibly even sexually assaulted in the name of religion.
I've watched this interview many times and there's a part with his mom where she says that people called her a 'monster maker' and another point where lionel points to medical conditions she had during the pregnancy and post partum depression. Society is so eager to place blame on the mothering when something goes wrong. How interesting that the father may have played a part, too. Thank you so much for doing this one. I'm so fascinated by him for the reasons you pointed out. He's not your 'normal' serial killer. I actually feel sorry for him....for a life gone so terribly wrong. (Don't come for me....I'm not excusing him or discounting what the families of his victims have lost). Another thing that's fascinating to me is his reaction, or lack thereof, to being beaten to death. He had no defensive wounds and the man who beat him said he had no reaction at all. He didn't cry out, he didn't fight back. What could make someone lose the very basic instinct to defend themselves?
My friend - an extremely intelligent woman studying to be a psychiatrist - and I sat down years ago and watched things about dahmer. We talked about how different he is from other serial killers - that he seems to be Borderline. His emotions aren’t dulled the way other serial killers’ are. In fact, his entire M.O. is about not wanting to be abandoned. One of the hallmarks of Borderline. I just looked at Wikipedia about him for the first time ever…..he was diagnosed as Borderline. I don’t know why I’d never looked it up before but I’m honestly stunned. I know Dahmer is a monster for what he did, but this aspect, combined with his surprising candor about his behaviors and actions, makes him EXTREMELY interesting to study.
Yes, he's very interesting to study. I think that additionally he was very likely on the autism spectrum, which would explain a lot about him. Not to mention that a recent study shows that 70% of people with ASD are also LGBT, so that supports the theory too.
Interestingly enough, some autistic people who tend to be more adept at masking, and who tend to fly under the radar so to speak can be misdiagnosed with borderline. In particular females. I disagree with the statement that Jeffrey Dahmer is unique in any fashion in comparison to other serial killers. He absolutely displays the telltale flat affect with "dulled emotions." He may not be showcasing that in this particular interview, but the courtroom videos, and other videos where he's not necessarily hyper aware of his being filmed, definitely reflect those behaviors. As for the fear of abandonment, that isn't just the "Hallmark" of borderline personality, it's a common trait among other personality disorders, and those with history of trauma. It's not uncommon for the psychopath to display fear of abandonment, as the psychopath will frequently use emotional vulnerability for their own agenda. I've been in the field for over a decade, and I can assure you Dahmer wasn't special, or unique in any way, he was an absolutely evil psychopath. Psychopaths can be extraordinarily charming. Many with an above average IQ. It's of no surprise that people are drawn to study them, and dissect them for themselves, it's a part of human nature.
@@Prawnstar. okay? I have borderline and know more than enough about my own condition. Psychopaths using emotional vulnerability and displaying a fear of abandonment as a manipulative ploy is not at all the same thing as the actual fear of abandonment displayed in borderlines. Just about nothing in his overall presentation matches with being a psychopath. Doesn’t mean it isn’t there at all, but definitely wouldn’t be something I’d point to as a clear diagnosis for him.
@@Prawnstar. I’d also like to note that I never said he was unique or that what he did wasn’t evil, but to assert that he wasn’t at all different from other serial killers…watch interviews with ed kemper, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Richard Ramirez - the differences are stark. Jeffrey dahmer was never notably “charming” - that’s Ted Bundy. He certainly preyed on people but he didn’t play on people’s sympathies to lure them in so he could murder them. The overall ability for dahmer to be genuinely self-reflective AT ALL and actually come away with honest answers is especially unique. While other serial killers laugh at questions, lie about their reasons, dismiss accusations, and blame others, Dahmer actually seemed to veer in the other direction. Especially strange for someone in that category. Listen to Bundy and Ramirez pontificating, or Ed Kemper blaming everything on his mother - then listen to Dahmer speak about what he did. It’s VERY different.
You're correct, you didn't use the word unique, initially. I never said you did. Unique was my own vocab choice to differentiate Dahmer, not your yours. What's odd is that while you made it a point to remark to me that you didn't use the word unique initially to describe Dahmer, you then go on to use the word unique in relation to Dahmer afterwards by stating the following; "the overall ability for Dahmer to be genuinely self-reflective AT ALL, and actually come away with honest answers is especially unique." So, I'm not sure what the issue is there? I'm afraid you've lost me when you began speaking about your own mental health diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. I'm further puzzled by the following statement you made "and know more than enough about my own condition" I've no idea what you're trying to convey there, as my comment had zero to do with anything about of you, or your mental health, nor did I question you about your knowledge of your own personal diagnosis. What I was making reference to was Anna's comment about autism. It appeared it was in response to your mentioning borderline in reference to Dahmer. All I referenced was, it's not uncommon for some autistics to be misdiagnos/confused with borderline, in particular females. Why, or how you thought that was about you personally, Idk. I actually started a separated my response to you by a line, and made it a point to address your comment specifically by saying that I disagreed with your statement...and then I shared why I felt that was the case. I'm sure you're aware that you used the words genuine, and honest to describe a serial killer, and that leads me back to my initial comment on why I disagree that Dahmer is "unique/different" from other serial killers.
Wondering if Jeff had been born into this time. It’s ok today to be gay, you can be into S&M (50 shades of grey), sex dolls, and I think dealing with the abandonment issues in therapy if he would’ve been different. Or was he just the perfect storm for something like this? Well never know now but I think he was a rare case and trying to figure him out is going to be a topic for years to come. This was the 90s and we’re still talking about him so. I have to say the circumstances of him getting baptized alone were supernatural. Gacy was executed, an eclipse was happening and he was baptized. I don’t think that happened by accident. Was he really religious? I don’t know but psychology, science & medicine can’t explain everything.
When J. Dahmer is mentioned I always remember that poor boy who, somehow, got out of his place and escaped from torture only to be escorted back (by the police😔) to the apartment of horror where J. Dahmer killed him. It's such a sad and tragic destiny😭
yes. I was so angry when I saw a tv show about him. that poor boy... he knew what was going to happen to him. He was aware of it the all time. incompetent /racist? police. 🤬
@@tll224 Hi Tania, it feels unfair to throw out the word "racist" so idly. The police see every side of humanity and weird behaviours, to the point where 'weird situations' are kinda normal. On the face of it, Dahmer was composed, eloquent and had a feasible explanation. That poor terrified young man had been drugged, was probably wild-eyed with terror (which also happens with certain drugs and substances) and verbally incapacitated. Rather than racism, it is far more reasonable and likely that the police bought the 'lovers' tiff' story than guessing that he was about to be butchered, canabalised, dismembered and stuffed into orifices to join others who had met the same unimaginable fate.
@Scape Goated on the Borderline My words were *"more reasonable and likely"* to buy into what Dahmer sold, than assume a scenario of imminent murder, cannibalism and dismemberment. You've added other made up hypothetical scenarios that I won't respond to, but I just don't see the need to add the word "white" in your sentence about the police believing the guy who spoke with more credibility, rather than someone who likely came across as high and/or mindlessly drunk (tragically), especially without clear evidence that a crime was taking place. People make quick credibility judgements every day, all over the world, always have and always will. Lucky us for having The Behaviour Panel to unpick these things, huh?! 👏🌷
As a baby, Dahmer spent several months in an incubator fighting a severe infection. In the 1950's, doctors didn't know babies had to be touched, tickled and soothed, so many incubator babies died from "failure to thrive" which is often just a synonym for neglect. Imagine an infant, stuck in a plastic box for months, alone, being stabbed by faceless monsters with giant spikes. That was Dahmer's early childhood. His father said he went in the box a happy baby who made eye contact, and smiled back at you. He came out like a rag doll. No eye contact, no smile back. He was dead inside. That sounds like Reactive Attachment Disorder. His parents sound pretty bad, checked out, narcissistic fundamentalists who told him gays will burn. But that alone won't prevent you from ever feeling empathy. Reactive Attachment Disorder sure will. People became mere objects to him, so why not kill and eat them?
@@dco1019 I know. I just don't see how anybody who read Lionel Dahmer's book wouldn't see that that incubator torture as the single event that broke Jeffrey. But then my mother and two sisters are child psychologists, so I got a lot more child development stories than most do... and some of those were horror stories.
Having Stone Phillips doing this interview is NO ACCIDENT. For starters, he’s a Yale graduate and extremely smart. Second, he anchored at ABC and NBC for the largest part of his career. He was on Dateline forever. And most likely, Stone Phillips was EXACTLY the type of handsome man that Dahmer liked. A woman would have never gotten this much interaction and information. An older man would have been like another father…bad idea. Stone Phillips, by comparison to all other interviews, got the most information out of Dahmer because to Dahmer, Stone Phillips was probably GORGEOUS AND DASHING. He probably smelled good too. At the time, he was the most GQ looking journalist and reporter on TV. And he knew how to conduct an interview.
A friend of mine was put in 1st Class on the same plane as Stone Phillips about 26 years ago(she had a medical emergency and was taken care of in 1st Class bathroom). She was then seated next to Stone. They had a good conversation til the plane landed. When they were ready to disembark SP asked her if she'd like his autograph. She said, "No. Do you want mine?" 😂. I kind of felt after hearing that that he was a bit arrogant. But he was definitely a good interviewer👍🏻
@@WABP860 Okay. You tell me what his type was. I couldn’t possibly know anything about Jeffrey Dahmer. Let’s see…got one whole degree in Administration of Justice with minors in Abnormal Psychology, Music, and Constitutional Law. Got a whole graduate degree in Criminology and Criminal Typology and did a whole Criminal Typology thesis on serial killers from the mid-80s to early 90s. Nope. I couldn’t possibly know anything about him.
@@missaretha1969 it's not about you. I saw all his interviews and read about him, and he (and his psychiatrists) described specifically the body type he liked. The fact that Stone Phillips is attractive doesn't mean that everyone is attracted to him, and your degrees might not have included "Jeffrey Dahmer's favourite body type" as part of the program. Don't take it personal
OCPD & BPD The reason he wanted to have full control was he had major adversion to abandonment. His parents had basically emotionally abandoned him, and during their divorce each thought the other had him so he lived alone for a while without them realizing they had both left him behind. That’s just one example of how his parents emotionally abandoned him so he needed to Zombify his sex partners because he could not emotionally connect with them nor deal with them leaving. And on top of that had heavy shame about his homosexuality. He ate them after reading about different cultures, where eating the organs or certain parts was a way to carry the person with you forever. So it was symbolic and another form of control over the other person, preventing them from ever being able to leave him.
It’s horrible all the things he did without a doubt… but I feel sorry for him and I do feel like he has remorse. His father is a real monster! Mark your so right! Writing a book about his son! Seriously? So gross! Great video guys.💓
Me too. I know he did the most horrific things possible and those families of the victims he murdered will never be the same, but still part of me does feel sorry for him. He doesn't seem like other serial killers, who relished being in the spotlight and were devoid of feeling. Jeff actually said - anything I say will sound trite, nothing can express the sorrow I feel - I think he did feel sorrow, and I don't think any other serial killer ever felt that or used that word. Also, he understood that anything he said would sound trite to them, whereas I don't think any of the others even considered how the families of their victims would feel, or even considered that they had feelings at all.
@@katgirlblue - he honestly looked and sounded genuinely sad when he talked about that. i think he felt as bad as he possibly could - which wasn’t a whole lot of upfront emotion, considering he’d spent so many years detaching and dissociating. but for him, it was the most he could feel. he did say at one point that he wondered why he didn’t feel worse about what he’d done, which makes me think it was something that concerned him. and considering how his murder of steven hicks devastated him and haunted him for years, even contributing strongly to his worsening alcoholism.. i do think there were some vestiges of a conscience there. it just wasn’t nearly strong enough to overpower his addiction to keeping human bodies with him. his way of coping was to detach, detach, detach, and over time, it just ended up becoming second nature. at a certain point, i wonder if he became unable to do anything else. the whole case is just a massive tragedy all around. it’s worst by far for the victims - thanks to jeff’s selfishness, they can never come back. each of those family members has a piece of their heart ripped out for good; children who never grew up, descendants that will never be born, entire lines of family that will never exist because of what this one man chose to do. but it’s also just awful to see a person like jeff just.. degrade into utter depravity. someone who could’ve potentially been steered onto a better path if only he’d cared enough to accept help. but instead, he wrecked his own life and the lives of countless others around him. the whole thing is unbelievably depressing.
If you look at the court testimony of the victim who got away, and got Dahlmer arrested, he says he kept changing personalities from a nice, normal guy to something quite different. What we see in interviews is nice, normal Geoff...but this is only part of the picture.
Well if I was trying to kill someone and threaten them to do what I needed them to do. I certainly wouldn’t be asking nicely! He also said he seemed confused. This man was living inside of his head since he was a child. Never being able to express himself completely.
Check out Oprah's interview of the Dad. Dad repeats the phrase"nothing out of the ordinary" quite a few times... Also, the dad never mentions a rape when Jeff was eight and Oprah didn't ask unless they edited it out.
I'm not saying the mother was a good mother, but the doctors never found anything wrong with her for all Lionel alleged at the time, "convulsions," etc.; it all came from Lionel's mouth how she needed medication and how she had problems, etc. Joyce wrote about Jeffrey before dying; it's in the book "The Silent Victims: The Aftermath of Failed Children on Their Mothers' Lives". People never question Lionel's words as he portrays himself like a normal person and he has is credentials in chemistry etc. Deep inside, for me, he is the real villain.
It’s a curious thing as to why she would leave one child behind and not the other. There were so many factors that come into play with Dahmer’s home life. Whether she was mentally stable or not, rejection and abandonment from his mother had to be a part of it.
@@tiffanyreyna6949 There were several problems in that family for sure. Joyce abandoned him but gave him a chance to go with her; she even begged him to go. Lionel and his wife Shari left him, and he never asked Jeffrey to join them. Joyce begged him to come with her and David when she was about to leave their house. Patrick Kennedy (the cop who interrogated Jeffrey for an extended period of time) stated: "Jeffrey just stood there and was "frozen" so she just decided to leave without him, paranoid that Lionel would catch them leave." (you can also find this in the book "Shrine of Jeffrey") Joyce tried to get Jeffrey to go to California, but he did not want to. (He later regretted not going there and wished he did instead of working at the Ambrosia, which was noted in a letter he sent to Joyce from prison.). I'm not saying she doesn't have any problems. Still, there are a lot of things that could be improved about the Netflix series and misconceptions overall. For me, Lionel was always trying to get attention, and it was indeed something like, "look, I'm a good father; look at me here saying all these things for you to believe me while I try to hide what I don't want anyone to know."
@@krystalroxX7 There were several problems in that family for sure. Joyce abandoned him but gave him a chance to go with her; she even begged him to go. Lionel and his wife Shari left him, and he never asked Jeffrey to join them. Joyce begged him to come with her and David when she was about to leave their house. Patrick Kennedy (the cop who interrogated Jeffrey for an extended period of time) stated: "Jeffrey just stood there and was "frozen" so she just decided to leave without him, paranoid that Lionel would catch them leave." (you can also find this in the book "Shrine of Jeffrey") Joyce tried to get Jeffrey to go to California, but he did not want to. (He later regretted not going there and wished he did instead of working at the Ambrosia, which was noted in a letter he sent to Joyce from prison.). I'm not saying she doesn't have any problems. Still, there are a lot of things that could be improved about the Netflix series and misconceptions overall. For me, Lionel was always trying to get attention, and it was indeed something like, "look, I'm a good father; look at me here saying all these things for you to believe me while I try to hide what I don't want anyone to know."
Psychopaths tend to not have a conscience or moral compass, so they do not feel guilt. Sociopaths, on the other hand, are capable of empathy and guilt. While sociopaths are impulsive, hot-tempered and erratic, they may form attachments to some people or groups. I feel Dalmer fits the sociopathic profile.
I wondered a lot, when i heard that, because i have very few wrinkles at the age of 40. In my case, it‘s probably a mix of genetics (both parents look very younger than their age) and healthy eating. And i know a lot of other people who look like that.
HIs dad didn't know what to do with Jeff, so he sent him to stay with his SUPER conservative, catholic grandmother; she treated him like a child, gave him no privacy, did not allow him to lock his room... She judged him horribly and humiliated him for not being a "man" as the church wanted him to be. I think that did a lot of damage. He said here he wanted to control the men, but in other interviews he said he just wanted "someone to stay with him, and won't leave". That's kind of sad.
I'd be super interessed to see how different the interview would have been if his father hadn't been present. I totally believe the dad was there to monitor and censor Jeffrey's behaviour, so he wouldn't incriminate the dad for being abusive and controlling. Seems to be working. As someone who was severely abused as a child and well into my adulthood, I can 100% recognise this.
yes, I , like others here have a very strong impression that while J.D did these horrendous acts his father may well have lit the fuse decades earlier-in fact more "Evil" emanates from the "loving father" that wrote the book. Nor do I think that any sexual abuse committed was not in some way connected to the father.
A lot of children think they’re having a normal childhood. It’s all they know at the time. I grew up in a dysfunctional home, but thought it was normal.
Dahmer hates his father. I would not have been aware of that had it not been pointed out by TBP Dahmer’s subtle look of disgust each time his father touched him or inserted himself in the discussion. Also how Dahmer leaned as far away from his father as he could. At the beginning, I couldn’t understand why his father was there at all, but now I understand somewhat. I think he worried about what his son would say, and also I think he wanted to continue his dominance. I can see how he has inserted himself into the interview and perhaps is trying to control it. In a way, Dahmer’s father is as sick and twisted as his son. He certainly gives me the creeps. As Mark said, the fact that he wrote a book about what his son did is quite appalling. I wonder about Dahmer’s brother…how he feels about his father and what his life has been like.
They did. The plea of Cleo Smith's parents, the Australian girl who was abducted. And before she was found alive and healthy, the panel had already said they were innocent
His mother was more dysfunctional on all sorts of pills while pregnant, plus she paid little to no attention during his formative years. All her energy was devoted at anger toward her husband and Jeff being completley neglected. Both parents abandoned him at a crucial time in his life. Just because you’re 18 doesn’t mean you have life figured out. A severe lack of mother’s love and attention growing up really messed him big time.
MASTER BODY LANGUAGE - TRAIN WITH US ONLINE: behavior-panel.mykajabi.com/tbpmclive2022
Type 2 psychopathy maybe? That's possible but Probly just a lack of impulse control with underlying paraphilias . I think the onset of paraphila is the big WHY.
Right now i am sitting very close to my Aunt (much like them in the inrview), whom i am very close to but i am leaning far from her because i want to rest my right arm on the armrest.
So, that analyze, imo could be very inaccurate; and at that point the have grown close together at that point
¿Son las religiones importantes? ¿Moldean las religiones tipos de comportamientos humanitarios? Los mayores asesinos en serie, desde supuestos líderes sociales, reyes y presidentes, hasta personas como Dahmer, se han excusado en Dios y su proyecto de vida para nosotros...
Agradezco enormemente la visión de Netflix de este caso...
Pero ver la entrevista real me ha dejado estupefacta...
Lo mismo que él utilizó como excusa para sus actos, lo pienso yo sobre la responsabilidad individual, mi visión de moralidad, viene de mi agnosticismo... Para él significa ser Dios y controlar (“el extraño“ de Camus, me viene a la mente) Él no ve la ironía en sus palabras, yo veo la pobreza del sistema social y educativo... Y, al final, veo un ser humano lidiando con las consecuencias y tratando de mostrar que hay una razón o una expiación de sus actos...
Realmente la serie es incómoda. Brillante (dirección, arte, actuación). Pero aún muestra los problemas con los que vivimos... Pobreza institucional y educativa, racismo y falta de investigación en psicología o psiquiatría... Parafraseando: "sabemos más de las estrellas y del universo, que lo que sabemos de nuestros cerebros y cómo o por qué funcionan como lo hacen"... Y no requiere dejar de investigar el universo, es entender que se pueden hacer y que se deben subvencionar las dos clases de investigaciones...
Toma tiempo aprender que no es la decisión de Sofía, es reconocer que descuidar una o la otra, puede causar una catástrofe...
There's are lots of trolls here....
@@SandraInesRamirez thats an amazing parallel with The Stranger. Watching this interview made me think, man, this sounds familiar.
I wonder how more honest he would be regarding his childhood if his father wasn’t in the room.
I agree. I think if he build up some trust with an interviewer and if his dad wasn't there, I think they could have learned a lot more.
I think he would have had many private sessions with professionals without his dad there, so he had that opportunity
I agree. And I wonder if the sitting distance from his Father that the panel kept referring to and that we could blatantly see was 'perhaps' as a result of Dahmer wanting to be honest in the interview but putting some distance in between himself and his Dad.
Whatever he had done, there is no getting away from the fact that his Dad loved and had always stuck by him. Dahmer would not have felt comfortable nor wanted his Dad to hear all the gory details, lies and psychology of his serial killer existence.
I personally think that may have accounted for why the deeper the interview went into the planning, hiding of Dahmer's atrocities and his mindset, the more he edged away and distanced himself from his Dad.
@@jacquelineconsitt941 Absolutely but the important factor would be that his Father may not have been part of the sessions with the psychologists.
His body language signified how he felt, whilst being questioned on certain matters, with his Dad sitting there taking it all in.
Yes, the way his dad stares which causes him to keep looking over for approval. Old man does care what is said about him for sure
I like that dahmer is more honest than Casey Anthony
Everyone is
That’s the truth
Than Edmond Kemper...
Dahmer didn't have a choice. Casey had a chance to and did get away with it
Sick ain’t it 🤦🏻♀️
I remember reading Dahmer’s dad’s book when it came out and getting the gut feeling from it that his dad had sexually molested/abused him. I can’t recall exactly what led me to that impression because it was over 25 years ago. However, the suppressed rage and adolescent fantasies really point to being “betrayed” by one of the people in his life who was supposed to keep him safe. And I think dad is present for impression control, as well as plugging his book, kind of like how Gypsy Rose Blanchard’s mom used to squeeze her hand really hard if Gypsy Rose started saying something she wasn’t supposed to. Jeffrey may have been conditioned to deny dad’s fault in any of this, and his dad’s presence is to remind him of that. Jeffrey’s need to have complete control over his victims might be representative of his relationship with his father
Or his mother? Everybody forgetting that she had severe mental health problems?!
Couldn't agree more.
Jodi, you bring some new insight in by having already read the book, and your impression that can very well be true.. I imagine he must of had a love hate relationship with his father especially while he was imprisoned, and visited by him.
Did the father take any type of responsibility for his sons actions?
@@caseydesocarraz5600 no. He blamed Dahmer. He said he had similar fantasies as Dahmer
When I see "calm" people I don't necessarily think they're peaceful. People have told me I look calm when I'm experiencing extreme anxiety or rage. It's all about learning to look calm on the outside, even if a storm is brewing inside
It’s called “masking”. Extremely common
The final tragedy in this situation is that scientists were not given opportunity to study his brain for any medical insights ,especially given his mothers treatment with 29 various prescription medications including hormone treatments during her pregnancy with J.D. The victims deserved the pursuit of every possible avenue to find answers to why this happened.
yes. access to his brain would have been very important from a scientific point of view. lost opportunity there :(
Yes!
The mother wanted his brain studied (I think at UCLA?) But it was the father that refused. Hmm....
@@kathynicholson103 because he knew his brain was fucked up. I think there’s a lot more to Lionel’s past too.
Ya Def think that would’ve been good, and Lionel I think was afraid if they found out what was wrong with JD, that he had it too.. but deep down controlled it better maybe not to as such a terrible degree, But I think JD got some genetic mental issues from his dad
I was a waitress & He came in almost every morning for a coffee & a sandwich to go. He was always very quiet & polite. Seemed very happy to get a smile & Good Morning & when I remembered how he took his coffee, seemed genuinely surprised & pleased. I always felt kind of sorry for him for some reason.
Wow!
A broken human, makes sense there would be some sense of his suffering in spite of the monster he was carrying within.
Didn’t happen
No sheet.
it wasn't like he wasn't eating well
Extreme loneliness and emotional pain brought this man to do evil and the unimaginable. His childhood and attachment disorder took his brain to a different universe…can’t even imagine how the victims families deal with the pain of their loved one murdered by this guy. His Dad is totally responsible for his lack of parenting skills, but Jeffrey taking responsibility for his actions is definitely a profound statement in his having agency for himself. Yes, Chase is so right; be mindful of your child’s dopamine receptors and erotic influences.
So many experience that trauma and don't kill n eat people.
@@NicolaMaxwell yes, but if you have a mental illnes... things change a bit. would have been interesting to study his brain to search for abnormalities.
I remember Chase referring to dopamine receptors, but I don't really understand what he was getting at. Could you or someone explain?
Jeff was the only mainstream serial killer who wasn't a clinical psychopath. He killed as the result of an out-of-control obsession/fetish with insides instead of out of sadism. That's where the confusion is coming in. Truly a sick but not evil man.
They all have slightly different psychology. The psychipathy spectrum is large and heterogeneous. The common point is absence of remorse
I think Mark was right on the money,,, I too don't like Dahmer but I dislike his father even more. That interview would have been so different if his father hadn't been sat beside him... He would not have been so guarded about the way he answered the interviewers questions. It's really surreal to see a man who has murdered so many people be so scared of his father and still be so much under his control. This was my favourite one too Scott.👍
The most animated I saw Dahmer get he was circling his arm towards his dad while talking about how the violence and the sex were all mixed up together. I believe this was at the same time his father had some lip compression and was gripping the arm of the chair with his little finger. I might be wrong about the sequence of these.
I think there are some serious secrets there.
@@cherylann594 you may be right
I don't like Jeffrey Dahmer but I think it's unfortunate that he was killed. I think he was willing to explain himself, probably more honestly than any other modern day serial killer. And we lost thar ability when an inmate killed him. I think there were positive benefits to having him in prison but able to be studied... his dad? The heck with that guy! He's probably a worse monster because he spent his last years painfully profiting off the horror. He painted himself as some respectable father, when in reality he was a narcissistic abuser, who beat his family then cashed in on the killings. I think his father is disgusting, and his death didn't hurt society a bit. Good riddance, no more book tours.
I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been for the psychiatrists and psychologists when they tried to get an idea of Jeff's childhood. It seems like he only focused on what he observed (my parents fought a lot) but never how he was affected by it, or how he was treated by each of his parents. He needed to take a harder look at his childhood to "find answers". When he says "where I had the FINAL say" was the most conviction he showed in the whole interview. What the hell happened to you as a kid where you didn't have the final say? The answer to your questions is right there.
Fascinating one, indeed! I’m with you guys. He was the most honest of all the serial killers and “psychopaths” you’ve analyzed. And, yes, that dad… Mark zones in on that early on. Great one, guys.
What I'll never understand about Jeff's dad is he couldn't accept the fact his son was gay but he seemed to shrug off the murder and eating of people. I definitely think his father caused some physiological damage (not excusing Jeff's behaviour at all what he did was beyond wrong) but rejection at a young age can cause problems in later life (and yes I understand not everyone who experiences trauma kills people), but everybody is built different and you just never know how your actions can mess people up in later life.
Gemma Raine Exactly girl, exactly!
When did the dad say he couldn’t accept him for being gay?
@@jordyb57 it was no secret his dad was slightly homophobic.
There are so many things I wanted to mention, I hope I remember them all. These won't be sequential, but here goes:
1. Dahmer sits tensed in most of the first part of the interview, comforting/shielding himself with the coffee cup while almost draping himself over his chair away from his father. Every time he adjusts himself, it looks like he's trying to move his chair away from his dad.
2. His dad sits in a chair with white armrests, but he places his arm on Dahmer's chair's armrest for a very long time, until the interviewer starts asking about the motives he had. When asked where the need to control came from, he says he didn't have control as a child or a young adult, and it's almost as if he is subtly accusing his dad; it is the only time his eyes move to his right to the point where his dad would most probably be clearly in his peripheral view while still facing the interviewer. At this (probably previously unacceptable) slight towards his dad, he claims the armrest from his dad for the rest of the interview.
3. When he talks about being left alone at home after The Divorce, he specifically mentions that his father only lived 5 miles away, but he had so little influence in Dahmer's life that he was, at 18, already drinking excessively.
4. When the interviewer asks him about any blame towards his mother or father, Dahmer nods when the interviewer mentions that he witnessed violent arguments from an early age, and continuing, and then that maybe that his father passed down a genetic propensity for obsessive and violent behaviour. This is when Dahmer says he can see why his dad would wonder about those things but as far as he is concerned, they are all excuses and that everyone should accept the blame for their behaviour. He goes from "I" statements, to saying "there comes a point where I think, a person has to, has to be accountable for what he's done. Can't go round making excuses, blaming other people..." My thoughts: Dahmer's father was possibly a violent, controlling, abusive person who would blame his behaviour on, among other things, genetics, probably exonerating himself by saying that HIS father had these traits, so he cannot help it and he is not to blame for it. I think this is the first time that Dahmer (again subtly) accused his father publically of abusing them/him without ever taking responsibility for his actions, and that even though he (Dahmer) is a monster, he can at least admit it and accept blame. I think this was a big punch in the gut for his dad, and that is why his dad feels the need to vindicate himself by making sure everyone knows that HE is honorable, righteous and praiseworthy for leading his son to salvation. When Dahmer looks at his father to respond, it is not in a casual, comfortable way. He almost squares up for a duel with his dad, staring daggers at him.
5. When asked if he was accountable to his parents when growing up, he puts an unusual amount of emphasis on the word "discipline". I think he was severely abused.
6. Dahmer probably lived a nightmare from a young age, was exposed to violence on a regular basis, exposed to sex, and started having dark fantasies about the things he was exposed to. He was homosexual, which was unacceptable in most households and would probably have caused even greater issues in the house. Then he was completely abandoned. Self medicated with alcohol. The ONE time things just fell in place was when he picked up the first hitchhiker and commited his first murder. First experience of control, fueled with alcohol, deep anger, deep hate, and being "nurtured" with violence and obsession created The Jeffrey Dahmer Monster.
Great analysis! I agree with you.
very interesting points about the "duel"
Great! Agree.
Very good! But I would add that Jeffrey's homosexuality intermingled with violence was instigated by his own father abusing him sexually since he was a child, not just beating him. Many signs point to this.
@@harveyplantharvester1502 So hard. Both deny it. But there is something that is kept secret that Jeffrey took with him to the grave.
I remember watching that interview years ago, but when watching it, there's definitely something off about his father. The mother (when she was interviewed separately) seemed more dismissive and much more anxious than the father. Just my personal opinion, but I think at the core of Dahmer's psyche was that he felt completely abandoned by both of his parents.
I really wish they got into his mother at all. Not blaming one over the other or saying one is more to blame than the other. The mother just seemed so off. At one point the mother is bringing up woman not being blamed for these issues of raising a terrible child. She had someone with her too who would interject, if I remember it was a lawyer?
This is why I've always been fascinated by the psychology of Dahmer. He's a monster yes, but not a psychopath. I can't think of another serial killer like him.
Agree!
Just a lonely boy prolly on the spectrum RIP 🙏
Could he be on autistic spectrum… his explanation about why he did what he did… sounds like psychological rhetoric.. then the end… he confessed..”it was lust, that was it..” I think there’s religious shame… which can condemn vs bring freedom… anyway.. sounds like some autism can bring him to some strange ways of copping with his (shameful) sexuality… I bet he was told that he would, “eat the fruit of his sin…”. Ok… back to interview…
What about the one that killed a bunch of prostitutes and ate the vaginas of two victims but is now some type of long distance prison grandpa to the kids of his unknown until she found him, daughter?
Ed Kemper
He was stationed in Belguim for two years the same time we were. He was a medic, my Dad was a teacher.
What's scary is how calm JD comes across and how quiet and unassuming he seems. Without knowing his crimes you would think he's quite a decent guy, thoughtful before he speaks and almost seems intune with all emotions but underneath that mask lies a very broken and seething man. That's the scariest thing for me. How bloody normal he seems until you pick apart his words.
I'm on board with not liking Jeffrey but I dislike the dad equally or more. Working in behavioral health, I spend a lot of time assessing family dynamics and my money goes to this dad as physically and emotionally abusive...likely the home had to meet his exacting expectations i.e not too much noise, everything in its place and his words were law so to speak. I doubt this man expressed genuine feelings or affection and Jeffrey probably had no modeling of that, making it impossible for him to recognize or process his own emotions. This Dad is here to pat himself on the back and make sure he is seen as a hero of sorts and definitely not at fault for what his son has done. He might toss all these ideas around in a book but this guy is a narcissist and wants to be exonerated of any part. He's less than a joke. Very disturbed dad to a very disturbed son. That's my two cents.
I would recommend looking into his mother. She was known to yell a lot, and she was very neurotic. I believe both he and his father are both on the spectrum of autism. I'm not saying I'm any way that him being on the spectrum made him do this or that people with autism are likely to do things like this. I'm just saying that it could explain the uncomfortable body language. But back to the issues with his mother, there are a couple interviews with her and interviews with others that talk about how she was. She also left her barely 18 year old son alone in the house and moved away with his little brother. I would suggest lack of maternal instinct. I think both parents however were not paying attention to their son.
As a potential abuser to Jeffrey in his past, should he be allowed in the same room with him? (Outside of therapy)
It just seems to me that if he's part of the reason we're all here, if he's part of what set J on this track and caused emotional abuse, then he should be kept away from this man.
@@kyianevvare3541 I will look into that! I don't know anything about mom and I agree especially J might be on the spectrum
@@Ryan-mq2mi I agree with you and definitely not excusing Jeffrey in any way. I'm just looking at the big picture. His behavior is horrific and I don't minimize it at all. I do look at the bigger picture because it's important in my field. That said, it's not meant to excuse or minimize what he did. He was a monster. It's the making of the monster that I'm exploring
narcissism and sociopathy need both the genetic component and the environment to develop. Dahmer’s father gave him both - the genetic predisposition and the abvsive environment. Jeffery never had a chance.
At age 18, Jeffrey's mother moved out of state with his younger brother, leaving him in the house alone, no food, no job, no support (he had no friends). She did not inform Lionel where they moved and he spent a lot of time tracking them down. Jeffrey stated that his only motive for the murders was to keep someone with him forever (body parts), maybe connected to the abandonment by his mom.
Oh geeeezzzz!!!!
Yes. People here keep looking at the dad, because he's present... But check out the mum 😱
Yes I think you're right.
Could be both
Listen this doesn't look good on paper, but I CAN feel sorry for Jeffrey Dhamer. I can feel all the violence, overcontrol, loneliness, anger, confusion, rejection stirring inside him under the oppressing need for his father's approval etc etc. He is a victim that turned inhumanely gruesome. Bundy just FELT HORRIBLY PLEASED by what he did and knew it wasn't ok to look proud about it. Dhamer didn't. He wasn't proud, he just looks very disassociated most of the time.He was not a sadist,he didn't enjoy the kill, his methods testify to it. He just wanted to be in total control and he dreaded abandonement. If you sum it up with being raised possibly without real empathy and around violence and with the fact that he "just couldn't fit"....I think this made him a monster. Not excuses,tho', just possible explanation. There is something "innately" malignant and luciferian about people like Bundy but I can't seem to see it in Dhamer. I just see a child gone VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG.
you are right, it looks bad on paper - maybe because you cannot even spell his name?
What your'e talking about is psychopathy...evil, or the absence of empathy that makes us human...Dahmer was not diagnosed with psychopathy and yes he had a conscience and had remorse. Bundy and others did not
I think you can feel sadness for the wounded child in him.
Yes, and satan knows how easy it is to sneak his demons in to a poor soul who is lost ….😢
You’re right
Dahmer's father was on his "I didn't help create this" tour, which has the exact opposite impact. It feels as if he was pivotal in creating the monster that Dahmer became.
He also placed a lot of the responsibility on his wife/Jeff's mother. I have always felt suspicious when someone is so quick to point fingers. Whether it's true or not, we'll never really know. I wish Dahmer had opened up more about his feelings but there was Dad, right next to him, his presence seemed stifling...
Expert forensic psychologists have stated that Dahmer was not a psychopath and showed no psychopathic features. He was a "sociopath" - which is different - and he also communicated remorse and self-responsibility both in interviews and at his trial, with no signs of self-appraisal. There was a lot of insecurity in his childhood, especially with his mother being emotionally unavailable to him from infancy and witnessing continuous abusive arguments between his parents. His mother seemed very self-centred and controlling, and she also took a lot of heavy drugs during her pregnancy with JD (including opioids), which his father didn't like and tried to stop. The epigenetic effects of this may well have affected the developing foetus, as well as exposure to his mother's emotional distress. JD's mother suddenly abandoned him as a teenager, only taking his younger brother. He had happy memories of his father paying him interest and attention when they gutted fish together or when dealing with dead animals - so he may have connected affection and attention to this, and his fascination with animal corpses grew. Insecurity and abandonment seemed to be strong ongoing features of his childhood, and there were definitely attachment issues with his mother. He was emotionally closer to his father than to his mother, and confiding in them about his sexuality wasn't possible in his view. From interviews I've watched with him and looking into his background, it seems his mother had narcissistic and BPD traits. Also, his dad's encouragement to dispel evolution (very strange for a scientist) and turn towards Jesus is a way of accepting no part to play in his son's emotional development - showing his dad kind of brainwashed his son to not blame his parents for anything; a further indication that the father still maintained control. JD came across as quite introverted and intelligent, but needing love and recognition from his father allowed his dad that control. I'm a forensic psychology student by the way, hence my interest in the JD case.
There’s no such thing as a sociopath. That’s just a word that is used instead of psychopath because psychopath sound so bad. We actually talk about what you’re referring to in the episode.
Psychopaths are experts in manipulation, lies and inducing pity.
@@TheBehaviorPanel what do you mean by "there is no such thing as sociopath"?
@@vicspegveg I think a sociopath is a type of phychopath.
@@TheBehaviorPanel neither are clinical terms anyway, and their use varies between who you’re talking to and in what disciplines
This may sound strange, but I've always felt a little sorry for Dahmer's childhood experiences. Not that I condone or accept his choices! It seems he was done wrong and, with his characteristics, a recipe for future horrific acts came together. I think that some people can exhibit evil behavior and simultaneously despise their choices. I watched him at his trial where he stood and said, "I deserve death. I believe I'm evil. " He caused immeasurable pain to many many victims and their friends and families. He was one of the worst people who walked the Earth. He at least took responsibility and seemed cognizant of his sickness.
That was an act. Don't fall for it. There are several reports where he would taunt his jailmates and do stupid things which led to almost none of them liking him. He was a weirdo outside and a weirdo in jail. He was evil until his death and he liked to mess around with people psychologically if he couldn't do it violently. Just because he called himself evil doesn't mean he took responsibility. Most people know who they are, even the bad guys. Taking responsibility would have meant to sincerely apologize and show remorse, which he completely lacks. There is nothing wrong with feeling sorry for a child going through harm. I also take pity when hearing of some of the horrid things many serial killers had experienced as a child. No child deserves to be abused.
@@SummeRain783 I disagree with much of this. Sounds like your not factoring in all the facts and your just judging. That's not our place. Our place is to understand his mind and what made him do what he did. Do u know the ins and outs of his case?
@@SummeRain783 I think the reason why he can be hard to read is because he most likely was on the autism spectrum. So the feelings were likely there but he had trouble with expressing them. I think the taunting (if true) was most likely to provoke his inmates so that they would hurt him. Because I think he kind of hated himself and wanted to die. Apparently his last words were (right before getting murdered) "I don't care if I live or die, go ahead and kill me"
@@SummeRain783 Actually that was never confirmed by anyone except the person who killed him that he would taunt them. Not one psychologist, psychiatrist, warden, mate, etc ever said that. Rather, a psychologist, colleague of mine agreed that his personality is nothing like that at all. It goes against his social disorders and sociopathy. It was said that he did that but never confirmed. It is also said that he was killed because he was gay. Also not confirmed. Bottomline; All sad.
This will sound bad, and I don't admire serial killers, but JD's honesty is impressive to me.
He comes across as very honest and he realises exact impact he has had
Also feels more as if he is trying to help with data by letting the world know how and why/or lack of why he did what he did. Just my feel
💯🙏
You aren't the only one.
That being said, he's telling the truth but not all of it because his dad is there, trying to sell his book.
I would be so interested in seeing this interview without the father there.
Jeffery Dahmer is a special case for me. This is because I feel some sympathy for him, but at the same time, I am completely revolted by his crimes. I guess that makes me human. But, a conflicted human. I saw some of the photos of his victims. They are by far, the most disturbing images that I have ever seen.
The dad cuttng up and collecting dead animals is a demented activity to do with yr kid
I think the missing link to understanding what drove Dahmer to commit such deviant behavior is to understand that psychologically, cannibalism is a way to connect with someone. When he eats them, he merges them into himself. He was driven by hopelessness and loneliness. That’s not psychopathy. I believe psychopaths are lonely, but they have no awareness of it. They despise human connection. Dahmer, on the other hand, craved it so intensely that he was willing to eat people to feel it, just a little.
Interesting take!
I agree with you 💯 ! Jeffrey was trying so hard to figure out who he is ! He's a Midwest young guy figuring out he's gay and that's not ok with mom dad or peers! So he's already an outcast, next dad just left him in a house with no family. This affirms that no one wants to be around him not even family! I believe he had abandonment disorders and yes he had feelings about everything he did and every life he took. He just wanted to have someone and keep them without that person having any drive to leave.
oh yeah. he even said that he wanted these people to “be a permanent part of him.” it calls to mind communion and transubstantiation. when christians eat the “body and blood” of christ, it’s meant to symbolize the internalization of christ’s message. if you are what you eat, then jesus is always a part of them. similar logic with jeff, i’m sure.
jeff wasn’t a psychopath so much as most likely autistic [never assessed, but that’s because the definition of autism wasn’t expanded until 1994 - 2 years after his trial, as well as the year he was killed], BPD, schizotypal, and addicted to sex. and traumatized as well. he had learned from an early age to dissociate and escape into his own mind. also, he was never taught how to work with his own emotions or even identify them properly, and he was the type of person who would’ve needed EXTRA attention and guidance with regards to that.
we’re often so quick to try to put a one-size-fits-all answer on things like this, probably because of how shocking they are and how we [thankfully] can’t even imagine doing anything close to what jeff did. but in his case, it was an especially complex and unfortunate stew of events that influenced him to make those decisions. it’s really sad, because i think he could’ve been a good person if he’d decided to get help and confess to his first murder instead of trying to handle it all on his own and eventually giving in. he tragically chose his own immediate freedom and avoidance of shame over human beings’ lives.
none of this excuses his behaviour at all. he still made horrible choices and must always be held accountable for that. but it might provide a background as to why he made the SPECIFIC bad choices he did.
@@TheoWren Yes, I would agree with autism as well. Thankfully, most of us don’t have cannibalism for a special interest. 😳
Jeffrey Dahmer was a " bad seed".,he was born to kill.sometimes you see it evolving in early years,but sometimes it manifests later on in life.its not like Chris Watts who had a : psychotic episode" and anialated his whole family,Dahmer was never going to be rehabilitated,that's an impossibility,and I am convinced that coldblooded serial killers are NOT nurtured,they are so by nature,born with it..
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What Chase said about dopamine and to see where your child is putting it wow!!
This was really fascinating. I've seen that interview before, a long time ago, and I was struck again by how "normal" Jeffrey seemed (me, being a layperson). Though his affect was fairly flat, he seemed to think clearly, he seemed to understand right from wrong, He didn't seem to try to glorify any of his actions, etc. And yet, we all know what he did. I find him completely abhorrent and yet so oddly "regular". He's very confusing. I haven't read up on Jeffrey's childhood or anything about his dad, but I got the same feelings that you did about him. I don't know what's true, but I can't help but wonder what kind of horror Jeff's childhood was due to his dad. smh
Think "mother"... not just his father. "Because Lionel was busy with his own doctoral studies, he was often absent from the home. And Joyce Dahmer, according to Lionel, was far from an ideal mother. He alleged that she was on prescription drugs while pregnant to Jeffrey, and was mentally unstable after she gave birth to him."
@@polarbearsrus6980 would Lionel even know what an ideal parent is?
He is actually described as an absent father. And for his mother, she was on medication for some mental instability and tried to kill herself a few times when Jefrrey was a boy; plus, she was in a psychiatric hospital when he was 10 years old. Both of the parents engaged in several discussions that were on the violent side. This isolated him in his world more. And later on (during the divorce I believe) she abandoned him, taking his brother with her, but leaving him alone; his father was staying in a motel, so Jeffrey had the house for himself. Just a few weeks after he killed for the first time.
I think that both his parents were neglectful and maybe even abusive to some extent. But he was close with the family dog, maybe because the dog was the only one who gave him unconditional love?
And I think the reason why he can be hard to read body language wise is because he very likely was on the autism spectrum. The feelings were there, but he had trouble with expressing them.
When I first saw how far Jeffrey was leaning away from his father I felt sick to my stomach and so uncomfortable. To me that is an automatic response to sitting next to your abuser.
Later when his father was directly staring at Jeffrey I felt like he was trying to control him through fear and intimidation. Even though Jeffrey wasn’t looking at his father , you can physically feel something like that.
It’s possible that Jeffrey is more relaxed because he really has nothing to hide. Also his father may feel very nervous because he could have a lot to hide, and at different times during the interview used looking at him, or touching his shoulder to keep control. Oh now Jeffrey, we’re not going to talk about how I found the boxes.
Stone Phillips was one of my favorites.
I appreciated that you mainly focused on the psychology and not on the horrific crimes. The little that was said was enough.
Great to see you Scott. 😊
Good point because as I think about theGary Heidnik story (something I suggested). it’s just horrific, But it is the psychology that makes it interesting
I think necrophilia was worth a mention. It's part of Jeffrey Dahmer's very complex characterisation
Prior to seeing this interview, I felt sorry for the father having that son. After the interview, I felt sorry for the son having that father.
Yes
Same!!
@@TwinGirlMammado u feel bad for Jeffery dahmer even though he is gay
@@Dolphinboiyou know what the worst thing about bill cosby is?
@@k_a_bizzle that he’s a rapist
Greg..."sometimes monsters are just monsters". I have a friend who was the shrink for the sexual predators in the prison Dalmer would have ended up in, had he lived, who told me two things " They are just wired differently than the rest of us" and when I asked when you could trust them, she said " when they are 6 ft under".
You’re a good teacher, Chase. I appreciate all of the “bonus” insight you share with us.
Cute too
*NOTE TO SELF* : Vegetarian dinner tonight. 🥗
I have vegetarian dinner every night 😆 I'm safe from flesh eating 🙌😂
Hahaaa! 😂
😂
Vegan here :)
😂
$5 says it was dad, not a neighbor kid, who violated JD when he was 8.
The message his father sends him after the divorce is he would rather stay in a hotel room only 5 miles away, then with his son. Meanwhile, Jeffrey is extremely lonely, abandoned by 2 horrible parents. He is then desperately fearful of being left again.
His mother kicked his father out of the house and his father did not know that his mother left.. he had to promise not to tell his father that she left. When his father found out that his son lived alone he moved back in with him
So interesting that Mark, not knowing much about this case, picked up on Jeffrey's father also having obsessive thoughts but succeeded in controlling them. His father admitted to having such thoughts.
I'm with Mark. Serious "uh oh" feelings around the Dad. He's there to governor his son and keep if from revealing anything. The book is to "set the record straight" so if Jeffery says anything revealing about his dad, he could say, "that wasn't me, that was the neighbor."
When Jeffrey says "... I felt I had no control as a child or young adult..." there is a literal CLUSTERFUCK.
Not only is *he* gesticulating towards his dad, his eyes are also toward that side of himself, he is soooo far away from his dad as possible without it looking too obvious (in his mind maybe).
But also the FATHER clears his throat at that exact moment when Jeffrey says "no control as a child or young adult", AND looks at the interviewer to check his reaction.
Is daddy uncomfortable? Surely. But Dahmer talks about drilling holes in skulls and pouring acid in them... Nothing from the dad. But when Jeffrey talks about his family life?
What *I* see is the parent SIGNALING to his child. Controlling and/or narcissistic parents love giving signals to the kids keep them on check, and the kids are so attuned, so "well trained" to pick up on it.
Jeffrey tries to say something about his childhood and dad is going "careful what you're saying!"
And the SECOND after that it's the first time he actually pipes up to climb back on his high horse to have Jeffrey (not himself) tell everyone that HE, daddy dearest, made his kid believe in God, made him change. Omg, I hate his father so much!
Also the whole "a person has to be held accountable for what he's done"... Since this is directly after the childhood part... Jeffrey might be talking not only about himself but his father (maybe that's why he switched to "people" rather than referring to himself alone. And THEN pops chimes in with the saviour signal so Jeffrey can praise daddy for making him better. Arrgghhh! That man!
Wow! Appreciate your observation. Definitely something there.
Yep! I read everything you did. In my opinion you’re right on the money
I'm pretty convinced (from my own experiences with people) that Dahmer's father is hiding a lot of details about Jeffrey's upbringing and home life. Victims of severe child abuse are usually loners because of their inability to relate to their more innocent and sheltered peers.
Dahmer's father wrote the book and sought his own publicity not only to capitalize on what was happening, but as a form of damage control on his own reputation.
This is one reason why he might be so anxious during the interview. For all we know he's fearful that Jeffrey's about to say, "Oh yeah, and there were those times dad snuck into my room at night." Child victims tend to keep their parents secrets. I could be projecting, but all the telltale signs are there.
Edit: It's also likely the main reason Lionel was so involved with Jeffrey during this time was to establish some control over him so he wouldn't spill any beans. Monthly prison visits sound obligatory, not loving (if someone I loved was in prison, I'd visit as often as I could). Being present in interviews with Jeffrey, he doesn't give off an impression that he's there for emotional support. He's there to control the situation and defend himself if any dirty laundry comes up.
Just my analysis based on growing up around covert predators.
This is so well written, and an absolutely brilliant insight!
@@fitnessdestiny
Thank you 😊
completely agree. dad looks like he's dreading what might be said and concerned son insisted he do this international tv interview with him. you can see son holding back but suggesting there is reason for what he did, he knows well bad stuff happened to him as a child and is keeping it to himself, but appears to be exercising power over dad. furthermore, asked what he and his dad discuss, dahmer states: 12:16 - here dahmer alludes to his childhood being prison-like - possibly suggesting to dad that ''you yourself may be experiencing prison if i so choose' - how things used to be - what prison life is like HERE, as in: prison life there and here. i'm of the opinion that dahmer was sexually abused during his childhood, perhaps early and it stopped, maybe throughout. some bad stuff was happening at home, but never any domestic calls, never teachers or family noticing bruises or other signs of violence. what does that leave?
@@BrainDamageComedy
I have some ideas. Feel free to tell me if I'm reaching/projecting. Warning - I tend to over explain. Sorry if it's too much to read through. Skip to the last paragraph which pretty much answers your question.
My grandfather was/is a pedophile. Seemed to prefer pre-adolescent girls, even as young as 3. He was also a teacher and principal with the public schools his entire career, with several transfers because of misconduct with secretaries (adult female staff). Parents of students had accused him of molestation and he lawyered up and transferred schools. My aunt (his daughter) shows signs of grooming (behaving sexual around him) and my father is criminally insane (I have no relationship with either).
Predators are hard to corner when they're smart and no one is trying to investigate, but the telltale signs are in the behaviors of those they have power over.
There are also issues with Dahmer's mother, which I also identify with.
My mom would lay in bed all day and neglected me (father was in prison during childhood). No play, most attention was negative, she was easily stressed and couldn't emotionally handle being a mom.
I played alone most of my childhood, especially once videogames and social media became part of our culture. I didn't have a phone or game console, and had no way to relate to my peers.
I was isolated. I still feel unworthy of love or human contact as an adult, and I still struggle to connect to people (I'm super empathetic tho and love animals, don't worry lol).
Anyway, living under parents who have dangerous skeletons in their closet tend to be more controlling and isolating toward their children to keep their secrets.
@@darkdork1012 again, very interesting. im sorry to hear what youve been dealing with - glad things are going better/ good now. there were definite issues with dahmer and his dad. someone pointed out in another comment that the mother left, taking the little brother but left dahmer behind in the house - i wonder if he was behaving in ways that got her out of there / got her to remove the little brother? maybe there was more going on openly or was discovered.
I've always thought Dahmer was NOT a psychopath. There is something so, well, human about him.
He wasn't. He had borderline personality disorder (look up the top symptoms!). Psychopaths cannot feel empathy or remorse, which doesn't align with Dahmer's MO. Lots of people cite his statement that if he hadn't been caught, he'd still be killing but he couldn't stop himself from doing it as proof of psychopathy.... But he also said how relieved he was that he was caught so that he couldn't do it anymore.
What.. cutting up bodies and eating them !!!
The way Dahmer leans so far away from his father during that interview. The father's book about his son is so sick. I sense he has such contempt and anger about his father. I bet his father did a lot of violence towards the mother. Divorced. Maybe his own father sexually abused him? To kill, cut up and then eat other people must take a certain level of sustained rage.
Girl get help
Not a psychopath, his doctors even said this. He did not test positive for it... he killed because he couldn't control his paraphilia but he was not a psychopath.
When the scariest person in the room isnt jeffrey dahmer 😬 his dad is another level
I like how you are now showing little video clips while simultaneously describing the behavior. This was something that I was looking for as a reference indicator. Loving your show. Keep up the great work guys!
I'm with Mark, I deeply dislike the dad, and I get the feeling that it wasn't the neighbor's kid who sexually assaulted Dahmer, it was his dad.
That’s what I think. And if you are raised by a narcissist, you ma not have a good sense of self. Seems like he got no love, When he talked about going out and finding someone to act out his fantasy, I felt like he was going to say “ I’m going to do to him just like it was done to me” but he stopped himself
For someone who uses distancing language a ton to subtle transfer blame. I feel willing to believe Dahmer when he says an event that could be passively blamed for everything didn't happen.
It almost seems like his dad is there to make sure he doesn’t say certain things 🤔
@@albino5995 Oh no no no, absolutely not (imo). At this point for Jeffery, his father means nothing to him! As a threat. I believe he wouldn't dance around it and his dad is, by no means, there to make sure certain "somethings" aren't said. That makes no sense. I mean, really think about the reasons why you came to that conclusion. And I l did try, a couple different angles after reading your and the other comment. But it just doesn't make sense. Imo Cheers x
I agree, Dredd. I noticed that all while Dahmer was talking about his dad, his dad was staring straight at the interviewer, like he was making sure he was buying it. I can tell you which one I'd rather have coffee with.
When he mentions his mother, he states that she was with her family, not our other family members. He doesn't feel a part of the family. Since his mother was never there for him, when he found a connection with his father, it became an unhealthy connection. Then his father abandoning him after the divorce, it finally broke him.
He did mot abandon him the mother won costody over the kids but left dahmer and took hi's brother with her.
@@filukkasunivers2389 , yes, i know that and agree, but i wonder if he wrote off his mess of a mother years before, then connected deeply, to an unhealthy level with his father. I believe then he felt abandoned by his father, especially living so close in the hotel, and not even maintaining any contact with him.
(Wow, first time i commented from my tablet, what a mess, lol. Just adjusted it on my phone).
I think he just meant that she was with her SIDE of the family, but i could be wrong 🤷
My attention was drawn immediately to the Father. I found him "creepy", but, unable to pin point why.
Right me too. I kept thinking if I was in a room with both of them I think I would be more afraid of the Dad.
The dad seems to have some serious control over Dahmer. I think Dahmer is holding back on what he really wants to say.
@@patriciaconnorspaszek6259 - 100%. jeff’s main thing was exerting complete control and dominance over someone else. i’m pretty sure that he had no other concept of how an interpersonal relationship should be.
if you listen to the whole interview, there’s a point at which he says he wanted to “be the one who had complete control” - as though relationships couldn’t possibly work any other way. this was likely modelled for him by his parents as he was growing up, and he never really made any friendships that involved an equal give-and-take dynamic - his high school “friends” basically just saw him as a mascot and a punchline. and given that his mom never even held him as a baby aside from family photos, he never really learned what a genuine relationship consisted of. and his father kept a tight rein on him all throughout his 20s and into his 30s - aside from his secret murderous rampage, nothing in his life was really his own choice.
certainly doesn’t excuse how he chose to handle it - he should’ve sought help before he ever hurt anyone. but it shows you what circumstances he came from that influenced what type of killer he became.
Thinking about an isolated sensitive child, who has experienced multiple traumatic fights between mother and father, and then instead of Dad supporting child to identify and verbalise feelings, or understand Dads scary behavior ( parents fighting terrifies children), Dad takes son out and imprints him with gory taxidermy, living things are just meat, to process. I can see how that would evolve tremendous horror, mortal terror ( will Dad do this to Mum, or me?) disassociation, compartmentalisation. Combined with final blow of mums abandonment ( she took the brother to safety, not him) then years more isolation.......plenty of fodder there for massive psychological damage. Tragic and sadly the buck did not stop there.
I would be very interested to look at Paul Bernardo and especially Karla Homolka!
I've messaged them same question 🇨🇦👋🕊️⚖️
I think his father is still trying to control him. That’s why he visits him so much in prison, to maintain some type of control or space in his son’s head. If JD’s main reason for doing the things he did was control, it is interesting that his Dad wrote a book about the actions his son took to gain that control. Taking the spot light off of his son and putting it partially on himself is just one more way to demonstrate his control over his son. It’s no longer his thing, it’s our thing.
That's not what the book is about
I thought JD died years ago 🤔
He can't visit him no more he dead
I disagree
@@Daisy_Duke he did
His parents failed him. They never showed him love, they fought constantly in front of him, and who know what else was done to him. They then left him alone in that house for months. The perfect setting for what he had always dreamed of doing. What he did was absolutely his fault and his choice but no wonder he had so much rage, self loathing, and need to control something in his life.
Yes, he had no good role model
Jeffrey Dahmer was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, co-morbid with schizotypal personality disorder, and an antisocial disorder. So his primary problem was that he was terrified of being abandoned and alone. That's why he kept his victims and ate them so they would become part of him and in his mind thought it would make him feel less lonely and unloved. In That way, they also could never leave him.😬😱
And these all come from childhood abandonment
Schizotypal PD was one of the disorders that normal-IQ autistic adults got diagnosed with back in those days. Given that like schizotypal PD, autism often runs in the same families as schizophrenia, it's possible that so-called schizotypal PD is always just what normal-IQ autism looks like when it's caused by specific schizophrenia-overlapping subsets of the neurobiological pathways involved. These families are the ones where autism is associated with smaller head circumference than average. In other families, autism runs along with completely different sets of conditions, often associated with a large head circumference instead, and normal-IQ autistic members of those families don't meet the criteria for schizotypal PD.
I have to mention to Mark Howden - apparently the father DID have deviant thoughts and fantasies that he somehow controlled. He talked about how he felt that he "made Jeffrey this way" because it was passed down to him. So Mark was 100% right on about the Dad having some knowledge about the internal struggle.
somebody is here after watching the show…
I think it’s possible (whether consciously, or unconsciously) he was taking away control from the father by saying “I and I alone am responsible” ... and suddenly at that point is when the dad jumps in with a leading question and in doing so is saying well, even your thought on responsibility was formed because of me”. It’s a very odd and subtle power/control struggle.
omg great observation. covert narcissistic abuse. i think jeff never believed he was abused because he had no words for it and was heavily gaslit.
You couldn’t be more wrong lol his dad felt GUILTY and said he couldn’t help but feel it’s his fault because he is his parent and he loves him.
It’s so messed up because compared to many other serial killer interviews, I almost forget how much pain he’s caused people. He comes across reserved, polite and mild tempered. When I’ve watched people like Ted Bundy, he gives off such a creepy energy. But with Dahmer I would likely be fooled if I didn’t know about his crimes. In the end, the people he harmed are the ones who never had a voice, yet he gets the interview. It’s all fucked up.
agreed bundy makes me so uncomfortable in interviews...he has negative energy...what do u think of ed kemper? i hope the 4 wise men do it..they sure get asked an awful lot by so many..kemper is an anamoly..he may have had reactive attachment disorder too from neglect abuse and lack of attention and affection and love from his mother who everyone said was horrible..her ex husband said he preferred the war actual battle zones to being married or living with her
Bundy was another disorder, NPD...psychopath. When I see Manson, Bundy and Gacy...I don't feel bad for them at all. The disorders are different which would explain the different engaging reactions
his violence was liekly in direct proportion to the shame he was made to feel by this cold, controlling, preachy, likely abusive father.
I lived in Milwaukee during this time (went to school at Marquette University) and as a Criminology major, we took deep dives into Dahmer & his serious departures from "textbook" psychopaths.
We kind of came to the conclusion that he had serious psychotic breaks & potential fugue states early on during the murders, but was very conscious of his behaviorduring his "experiments".
Worse, the predominantly secretive nature of the underground gay scene in a smaller mid-western city like Milwaukee helped him blend his murderous secrets with the "expected" secrecy/shame of closeted gay men.
By the time he held this interview he had been well medicated (and no longer self-medicating with blackout levels of alcohol) & I feel he was finally able to think clearly and really be insightful about his own abhorrent behavior...to the point that I think he may have in some ways committed "suicide by inmate." His newfound belief in God probably made him feel like suicide wasn't an acceptable option, but putting himself in a position to be killed was a viable way out.
YASSSSS 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The death by inmate was a bonus to getting some amusement.
I suspect the new belief system was just a tweak in the “personality” and his only hope for salvation - he likely believed such a person as JC existed and found some sort of enlightenment and figured he’d try out the conceit if
Of faith
Greg, Jeff never raged. When he was arrested, he was defeated. He was relieved. He calmly confessed to everything. He has only ever been exactly like you see him here, in every single interview, in every interrogation, in every recording, in every home movie, in court, in high school.
But when he was violent he was really something
I really want to know what happened just before Stone said, let’s take a deep breath. Something clearly went down.
I wish they could have interviewed Jeff without his father
DAD is there because... censorship. The father inserts himself into the entire sons' trial and outward information. I think the father had a lot more to do with the sons' behaviour than they both admit to. The mom hits the nail on the NETFLIX special... "what were you two DOING down there taxidermy-ing those animals. It's wasn't natural". The father has demonstrated gaslighting behaviour on both the first wife and son... which is typical of ...hmmmm, narcissism. Can't stand not being the centre of attention, inserting himself into the action.. There is far far far more going on with the papa than meets the eye here.
Agreed!
I think the dad was there to influence how much was divulged just using his presence
I just can't get over how soft spoken and mild mannered he is! It's so hard to reconcile his presentation with what he did.
Why did the father leave Jeffrey alone after his wife left? In my opinion, he didnt care how that affected Jeffrey. Also the father admitted that he had the same thoughts but never acted on them. In a weird way I think Jeffrey was trying to make his father stay. And the mother fought all the time with the father so it doesnt seem to me that he wanted her to stay. He wanted his father. As a teenager, he needed his father. No one should be left alone after a major life event like divorce or death .
Dahlmer’s mother was reported to be a hypochondriac, emotional, depressed and disagreeable. She likely was a bad influence as well.
The mother did an interview that was broadcast on tv decades ago & she discussed her battle with depression & how Lionel was not sympathetic, not compassionate, & did not try to get help for her. She described a cold & removed from her issues husband. Who was also cold & removed from Jeffrey's need to be protected, loved, & cared for while his mother was sick. Instead Lionel was furious that his family wasn't perfect. He ruled with shouting at them & storming out. IMO Jeffrey numbed himself with alcohol like his mother did with RXs & he needed someone to control but not love like his father was with him. Obviously lots of other experiences were added in to create this wretched human. He went to prison in 1992 & was killed by another inmate in 1994.
"My mother was with 'her' family" - not 'the rest' of the family ... He likely felt excluded.
There were several problems in that family for sure. Joyce abandoned him but gave him a chance to go with her; she even begged him to go. Lionel and his wife Shari left him, and he never asked Jeffrey to join them.
Joyce begged him to come with her and David when she was about to leave their house. Patrick Kennedy (the cop who interrogated Jeffrey for an extended period of time) stated: "Jeffrey just stood there and was "frozen" so she just decided to leave without him, paranoid that Lionel would catch them leave." (you can also find this in the book "Shrine of Jeffrey")
Joyce tried to get Jeffrey to go to California, but he did not want to. (He later regretted not going there and wished he did instead of working at the Ambrosia, which was noted in a letter he sent to Joyce from prison.).
I'm not saying she doesn't have any problems. Still, there are a lot of things that could be improved about the Netflix series and misconceptions overall. For me, Lionel was always trying to get attention, and it was indeed something like, "look, I'm a good father; look at me here saying all these things for you to believe me while I try to hide what I don't want anyone to know."
I call stories like this the unpunishable crime. Granted I don't condone anything Dahmer did, and realize he is very deeply disturbed. What infuriates me is that a parent can abuse their child to the point of actually rewiring their brain, and/or push their child into a complete point of maladaptive behavior that renders them anywhere from being unable to successfully survive in Society, and in this case, up to committing heinous crimes. They're never held accountable. Up until this episode, I assumed Dahmer was a Psychopath, but can now see he is a mixed bag of a lot of damage and dx's. That dad is still alive, and imo, probly more of a monster than his Son. I refuse to read his book, as it probly contains only stories to steer himself clear of any wrong doing. Some great revelations here guys- thoroughly interesting ,and disturbing
When this was first breaking in the mid-'80s, I recall thinking that I would have loved to know JD while while he was a teenager. He was an intelligent man, though he misused his intelligence and ended up nullifying a lot of it by his actions. I would have enjoyed knowing him before he acted on any of his dark fantasies because underneath it all he was an interesting and complex human being.
Na, he wasn’t abused. Maybe neglected. He’s always been sick. Into animal parts, road kill ect. Sense a child. I went thru way worse. I’ve seen people endure WAY worse as a child. He’s a monster.
I also doubt that Dahmer was abused. At least I don’t think that he was abused by his father. You can tell that there is a mutual affection between the father and the son.
There was a movie made about him.
@@scottjackson163 You didnt watch this, did you?
He can't talk freely because his dad is sitting right there beside him. He and the dad both know very well that the father is to blame for so much of what happened to him as a child. As Jeffrey answers questions, the dad looks at him as if he (Jeffrey) is a spectacle of some sort, an atrocity but he knows in his heart that he created that atrocity, just doesn't want to accept his part. I am fully aware of the horrors he committed, yet I can't help but feel sorry for him.
I completely concur with your comment. Jeff was a victim who victimized. DaddyBuyMyBook was a brainwashing monster for sure.
The void that is Jeff is really odd to see.
There's just no happiness or joy anywhere in him.
Extremely flat.
There is rage there. He has a deep well of rage under the flat.
@@rl7012 IKR , He hates his Dad . I know it .
Jeff’s dad must have done such horrible things to him & continued to control the narrative til the end. I pray for all the victims of abuse who have suffered & continue to suffer 🙏
Sadness radiates from him.
I think the fact that his father and he would pick up road kill and dissect it together could have been the key to everything. They were “buddies in death.” Think about it: teaching a kid to take apart dead animals…ugh.
Not that much different from growing up hunting and fishing. Don't think it would've been a factor if he had a healthy childhood otherwise. And his genetic predisposition obviously didn't help
His dad was a scientist
Except that Jeffrey actually said that this was a huge influence. Not that his father created the monster in him; but this experience was one thing that brought it out. Other kids who hunt with their fathers would not be effected by it in a violent way.
There isn't anything wrong with dissenting animals for research. It may not be something most people are into, but it's not like he was torturing animals. He was dissecting animals that were already dead.
His father did not know about the roadkill. He said in an Interview that if he had known it would have been a red flag
Idea for vids - Robert Wagner on Natalie Wood's death.
let Natalie be...Wagner's time is short
That'd be very interesting.
I find him fascinating. He's so unusual in comparison to other serial killers. He seems to be far more self aware, or at least self reflective. A self reflective monster??? What on earth is this???? His case is so mind bending.
The father to me seems like a definite narcissist. You can see him hold back the anger when Jeffrey insinuates the means to and end was because he had no power as a child. But the moment Jeffrey gives his father back the power by saying it's all his own fault his father grins with narcissist excitement. I would bet Jeffrey was heavily abused as a child and possibly even sexually assaulted in the name of religion.
He is ashamed, but would do it again in a minute.
I also think he's full of rage; he beat a man to death in a blackout.
I've watched this interview many times and there's a part with his mom where she says that people called her a 'monster maker' and another point where lionel points to medical conditions she had during the pregnancy and post partum depression. Society is so eager to place blame on the mothering when something goes wrong. How interesting that the father may have played a part, too. Thank you so much for doing this one. I'm so fascinated by him for the reasons you pointed out. He's not your 'normal' serial killer. I actually feel sorry for him....for a life gone so terribly wrong. (Don't come for me....I'm not excusing him or discounting what the families of his victims have lost). Another thing that's fascinating to me is his reaction, or lack thereof, to being beaten to death. He had no defensive wounds and the man who beat him said he had no reaction at all. He didn't cry out, he didn't fight back. What could make someone lose the very basic instinct to defend themselves?
I agree. I believe his basic needs were not met from day 1.
My friend - an extremely intelligent woman studying to be a psychiatrist - and I sat down years ago and watched things about dahmer. We talked about how different he is from other serial killers - that he seems to be Borderline. His emotions aren’t dulled the way other serial killers’ are. In fact, his entire M.O. is about not wanting to be abandoned. One of the hallmarks of Borderline. I just looked at Wikipedia about him for the first time ever…..he was diagnosed as Borderline. I don’t know why I’d never looked it up before but I’m honestly stunned. I know Dahmer is a monster for what he did, but this aspect, combined with his surprising candor about his behaviors and actions, makes him EXTREMELY interesting to study.
Yes, he's very interesting to study. I think that additionally he was very likely on the autism spectrum, which would explain a lot about him. Not to mention that a recent study shows that 70% of people with ASD are also LGBT, so that supports the theory too.
Interestingly enough, some autistic people who tend to be more adept at masking, and who tend to fly under the radar so to speak can be misdiagnosed with borderline. In particular females.
I disagree with the statement that Jeffrey Dahmer is unique in any fashion in comparison to other serial killers. He absolutely displays the telltale flat affect with "dulled emotions." He may not be showcasing that in this particular interview, but the courtroom videos, and other videos where he's not necessarily hyper aware of his being filmed, definitely reflect those behaviors.
As for the fear of abandonment, that isn't just the "Hallmark" of borderline personality, it's a common trait among other personality disorders, and those with history of trauma. It's not uncommon for the psychopath to display fear of abandonment, as the psychopath will frequently use emotional vulnerability for their own agenda. I've been in the field for over a decade, and I can assure you Dahmer wasn't special, or unique in any way, he was an absolutely evil psychopath. Psychopaths can be extraordinarily charming. Many with an above average IQ. It's of no surprise that people are drawn to study them, and dissect them for themselves, it's a part of human nature.
@@Prawnstar. okay? I have borderline and know more than enough about my own condition. Psychopaths using emotional vulnerability and displaying a fear of abandonment as a manipulative ploy is not at all the same thing as the actual fear of abandonment displayed in borderlines. Just about nothing in his overall presentation matches with being a psychopath. Doesn’t mean it isn’t there at all, but definitely wouldn’t be something I’d point to as a clear diagnosis for him.
@@Prawnstar. I’d also like to note that I never said he was unique or that what he did wasn’t evil, but to assert that he wasn’t at all different from other serial killers…watch interviews with ed kemper, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Richard Ramirez - the differences are stark. Jeffrey dahmer was never notably “charming” - that’s Ted Bundy. He certainly preyed on people but he didn’t play on people’s sympathies to lure them in so he could murder them. The overall ability for dahmer to be genuinely self-reflective AT ALL and actually come away with honest answers is especially unique. While other serial killers laugh at questions, lie about their reasons, dismiss accusations, and blame others, Dahmer actually seemed to veer in the other direction. Especially strange for someone in that category. Listen to Bundy and Ramirez pontificating, or Ed Kemper blaming everything on his mother - then listen to Dahmer speak about what he did. It’s VERY different.
You're correct, you didn't use the word unique, initially. I never said you did. Unique was my own vocab choice to differentiate Dahmer, not your yours. What's odd is that while you made it a point to remark to me that you didn't use the word unique initially to describe Dahmer, you then go on to use the word unique in relation to Dahmer afterwards by stating the following; "the overall ability for Dahmer to be genuinely self-reflective AT ALL, and actually come away with honest answers is especially unique." So, I'm not sure what the issue is there?
I'm afraid you've lost me when you began speaking about your own mental health diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. I'm further puzzled by the following statement you made "and know more than enough about my own condition" I've no idea what you're trying to convey there, as my comment had zero to do with anything about of you, or your mental health, nor did I question you about your knowledge of your own personal diagnosis.
What I was making reference to was Anna's comment about autism. It appeared it was in response to your mentioning borderline in reference to Dahmer. All I referenced was, it's not uncommon for some autistics to be misdiagnos/confused with borderline, in particular females. Why, or how you thought that was about you personally, Idk.
I actually started a separated my response to you by a line, and made it a point to address your comment specifically by saying that I disagreed with your statement...and then I shared why I felt that was the case.
I'm sure you're aware that you used the words genuine, and honest to describe a serial killer, and that leads me back to my initial comment on why I disagree that Dahmer is "unique/different" from other serial killers.
Wondering if Jeff had been born into this time. It’s ok today to be gay, you can be into S&M (50 shades of grey), sex dolls, and I think dealing with the abandonment issues in therapy if he would’ve been different. Or was he just the perfect storm for something like this? Well never know now but I think he was a rare case and trying to figure him out is going to be a topic for years to come. This was the 90s and we’re still talking about him so. I have to say the circumstances of him getting baptized alone were supernatural. Gacy was executed, an eclipse was happening and he was baptized. I don’t think that happened by accident. Was he really religious? I don’t know but psychology, science & medicine can’t explain everything.
When J. Dahmer is mentioned I always remember that poor boy who, somehow, got out of his place and escaped from torture only to be escorted back (by the police😔) to the apartment of horror where J. Dahmer killed him. It's such a sad and tragic destiny😭
yes. I was so angry when I saw a tv show about him. that poor boy... he knew what was going to happen to him. He was aware of it the all time. incompetent /racist? police. 🤬
@@tll224 Hi Tania, it feels unfair to throw out the word "racist" so idly. The police see every side of humanity and weird behaviours, to the point where 'weird situations' are kinda normal. On the face of it, Dahmer was composed, eloquent and had a feasible explanation. That poor terrified young man had been drugged, was probably wild-eyed with terror (which also happens with certain drugs and substances) and verbally incapacitated. Rather than racism, it is far more reasonable and likely that the police bought the 'lovers' tiff' story than guessing that he was about to be butchered, canabalised, dismembered and stuffed into orifices to join others who had met the same unimaginable fate.
@Scape Goated on the Borderline My words were *"more reasonable and likely"* to buy into what Dahmer sold, than assume a scenario of imminent murder, cannibalism and dismemberment. You've added other made up hypothetical scenarios that I won't respond to, but I just don't see the need to add the word "white" in your sentence about the police believing the guy who spoke with more credibility, rather than someone who likely came across as high and/or mindlessly drunk (tragically), especially without clear evidence that a crime was taking place. People make quick credibility judgements every day, all over the world, always have and always will. Lucky us for having The Behaviour Panel to unpick these things, huh?! 👏🌷
As a baby, Dahmer spent several months in an incubator fighting a severe infection. In the 1950's, doctors didn't know babies had to be touched, tickled and soothed, so many incubator babies died from "failure to thrive" which is often just a synonym for neglect.
Imagine an infant, stuck in a plastic box for months, alone, being stabbed by faceless monsters with giant spikes. That was Dahmer's early childhood. His father said he went in the box a happy baby who made eye contact, and smiled back at you.
He came out like a rag doll. No eye contact, no smile back. He was dead inside.
That sounds like Reactive Attachment Disorder.
His parents sound pretty bad, checked out, narcissistic fundamentalists who told him gays will burn. But that alone won't prevent you from ever feeling empathy.
Reactive Attachment Disorder sure will. People became mere objects to him, so why not kill and eat them?
.the part with being stuck in a plastic box with faceless monsters stabbing you sounds devastating to normal social development indeed.
@@dco1019 I.V. antibiotics, from nurses wearing masks, for months...
@@LordMondegrene I understood
@@dco1019 I know.
I just don't see how anybody who read Lionel Dahmer's book wouldn't see that that incubator torture as the single event that broke Jeffrey. But then my mother and two sisters are child psychologists, so I got a lot more child development stories than most do... and some of those were horror stories.
Not true. You are conflating Dahmer with the Unabomber 😂😂😂😂
Having Stone Phillips doing this interview is NO ACCIDENT. For starters, he’s a Yale graduate and extremely smart. Second, he anchored at ABC and NBC for the largest part of his career. He was on Dateline forever. And most likely, Stone Phillips was EXACTLY the type of handsome man that Dahmer liked. A woman would have never gotten this much interaction and information. An older man would have been like another father…bad idea. Stone Phillips, by comparison to all other interviews, got the most information out of Dahmer because to Dahmer, Stone Phillips was probably GORGEOUS AND DASHING. He probably smelled good too. At the time, he was the most GQ looking journalist and reporter on TV. And he knew how to conduct an interview.
A friend of mine was put in 1st Class on the same plane as Stone Phillips about 26 years ago(she had a medical emergency and was taken care of in 1st Class bathroom). She was then seated next to Stone. They had a good conversation til the plane landed. When they were ready to disembark SP asked her if she'd like his autograph. She said, "No. Do you want mine?" 😂. I kind of felt after hearing that that he was a bit arrogant. But he was definitely a good interviewer👍🏻
No, he wasn't his type, from what I've learnt from interviews with his psychiatrists and his confessions
@@WABP860 Okay. You tell me what his type was. I couldn’t possibly know anything about Jeffrey Dahmer. Let’s see…got one whole degree in Administration of Justice with minors in Abnormal Psychology, Music, and Constitutional Law. Got a whole graduate degree in Criminology and Criminal Typology and did a whole Criminal Typology thesis on serial killers from the mid-80s to early 90s. Nope. I couldn’t possibly know anything about him.
@@missaretha1969 it's not about you. I saw all his interviews and read about him, and he (and his psychiatrists) described specifically the body type he liked. The fact that Stone Phillips is attractive doesn't mean that everyone is attracted to him, and your degrees might not have included "Jeffrey Dahmer's favourite body type" as part of the program. Don't take it personal
@@WABP860 LOL! Of course it did. I wasn’t saying that Stone Phillips was picked because he was exactly his type.
OCPD & BPD
The reason he wanted to have full control was he had major adversion to abandonment. His parents had basically emotionally abandoned him, and during their divorce each thought the other had him so he lived alone for a while without them realizing they had both left him behind. That’s just one example of how his parents emotionally abandoned him so he needed to Zombify his sex partners because he could not emotionally connect with them nor deal with them leaving. And on top of that had heavy shame about his homosexuality. He ate them after reading about different cultures, where eating the organs or certain parts was a way to carry the person with you forever. So it was symbolic and another form of control over the other person, preventing them from ever being able to leave him.
It’s horrible all the things he did without a doubt… but I feel sorry for him and I do feel like he has remorse.
His father is a real monster! Mark your so right! Writing a book about his son! Seriously? So gross!
Great video guys.💓
I think his dad was truly sad about the freak he created.
Me too. I know he did the most horrific things possible and those families of the victims he murdered will never be the same, but still part of me does feel sorry for him. He doesn't seem like other serial killers, who relished being in the spotlight and were devoid of feeling. Jeff actually said - anything I say will sound trite, nothing can express the sorrow I feel - I think he did feel sorrow, and I don't think any other serial killer ever felt that or used that word. Also, he understood that anything he said would sound trite to them, whereas I don't think any of the others even considered how the families of their victims would feel, or even considered that they had feelings at all.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. I too feel sorry for him. Of course…. He did evil things but I truly feel sorry for him
@@katgirlblue - he honestly looked and sounded genuinely sad when he talked about that. i think he felt as bad as he possibly could - which wasn’t a whole lot of upfront emotion, considering he’d spent so many years detaching and dissociating. but for him, it was the most he could feel.
he did say at one point that he wondered why he didn’t feel worse about what he’d done, which makes me think it was something that concerned him. and considering how his murder of steven hicks devastated him and haunted him for years, even contributing strongly to his worsening alcoholism.. i do think there were some vestiges of a conscience there. it just wasn’t nearly strong enough to overpower his addiction to keeping human bodies with him. his way of coping was to detach, detach, detach, and over time, it just ended up becoming second nature. at a certain point, i wonder if he became unable to do anything else.
the whole case is just a massive tragedy all around. it’s worst by far for the victims - thanks to jeff’s selfishness, they can never come back. each of those family members has a piece of their heart ripped out for good; children who never grew up, descendants that will never be born, entire lines of family that will never exist because of what this one man chose to do. but it’s also just awful to see a person like jeff just.. degrade into utter depravity. someone who could’ve potentially been steered onto a better path if only he’d cared enough to accept help. but instead, he wrecked his own life and the lives of countless others around him.
the whole thing is unbelievably depressing.
If you look at the court testimony of the victim who got away, and got Dahlmer arrested, he says he kept changing personalities from a nice, normal guy to something quite different. What we see in interviews is nice, normal Geoff...but this is only part of the picture.
Right! What really blew me away was how he said he kept changing, like his posture would change, his voice, and facial expression. Really crazy stuff.
Well if I was trying to kill someone and threaten them to do what I needed them to do. I certainly wouldn’t be asking nicely!
He also said he seemed confused. This man was living inside of his head since he was a child. Never being able to express himself completely.
Father seems almost enjoying the attention through his son. There seems to be a very strange tight relation where the father lives from the son.
Check out Oprah's interview of the Dad. Dad repeats the phrase"nothing out of the ordinary" quite a few times... Also, the dad never mentions a rape when Jeff was eight and Oprah didn't ask unless they edited it out.
I'm not saying the mother was a good mother, but the doctors never found anything wrong with her for all Lionel alleged at the time, "convulsions," etc.; it all came from Lionel's mouth how she needed medication and how she had problems, etc. Joyce wrote about Jeffrey before dying; it's in the book "The Silent Victims: The Aftermath of Failed Children on Their Mothers' Lives". People never question Lionel's words as he portrays himself like a normal person and he has is credentials in chemistry etc. Deep inside, for me, he is the real villain.
It’s a curious thing as to why she would leave one child behind and not the other. There were so many factors that come into play with Dahmer’s home life. Whether she was mentally stable or not, rejection and abandonment from his mother had to be a part of it.
@@tiffanyreyna6949 There were several problems in that family for sure. Joyce abandoned him but gave him a chance to go with her; she even begged him to go. Lionel and his wife Shari left him, and he never asked Jeffrey to join them.
Joyce begged him to come with her and David when she was about to leave their house. Patrick Kennedy (the cop who interrogated Jeffrey for an extended period of time) stated: "Jeffrey just stood there and was "frozen" so she just decided to leave without him, paranoid that Lionel would catch them leave." (you can also find this in the book "Shrine of Jeffrey")
Joyce tried to get Jeffrey to go to California, but he did not want to. (He later regretted not going there and wished he did instead of working at the Ambrosia, which was noted in a letter he sent to Joyce from prison.).
I'm not saying she doesn't have any problems. Still, there are a lot of things that could be improved about the Netflix series and misconceptions overall. For me, Lionel was always trying to get attention, and it was indeed something like, "look, I'm a good father; look at me here saying all these things for you to believe me while I try to hide what I don't want anyone to know."
@@krystalroxX7 There were several problems in that family for sure. Joyce abandoned him but gave him a chance to go with her; she even begged him to go. Lionel and his wife Shari left him, and he never asked Jeffrey to join them.
Joyce begged him to come with her and David when she was about to leave their house. Patrick Kennedy (the cop who interrogated Jeffrey for an extended period of time) stated: "Jeffrey just stood there and was "frozen" so she just decided to leave without him, paranoid that Lionel would catch them leave." (you can also find this in the book "Shrine of Jeffrey")
Joyce tried to get Jeffrey to go to California, but he did not want to. (He later regretted not going there and wished he did instead of working at the Ambrosia, which was noted in a letter he sent to Joyce from prison.).
I'm not saying she doesn't have any problems. Still, there are a lot of things that could be improved about the Netflix series and misconceptions overall. For me, Lionel was always trying to get attention, and it was indeed something like, "look, I'm a good father; look at me here saying all these things for you to believe me while I try to hide what I don't want anyone to know."
Psychopaths tend to not have a conscience or moral compass, so they do not feel guilt. Sociopaths, on the other hand, are capable of empathy and guilt. While sociopaths are impulsive, hot-tempered and erratic, they may form attachments to some people or groups. I feel Dalmer fits the sociopathic profile.
My thoughts exactly!
I agree. A lot people use psychopath in wrong content.
The lack of wrinkles in his face is extremely telling I never thought of that
I wondered a lot, when i heard that, because i have very few wrinkles at the age of 40. In my case, it‘s probably a mix of genetics (both parents look very younger than their age) and healthy eating. And i know a lot of other people who look like that.
The father is a big part of the problem, in my opinion
HIs dad didn't know what to do with Jeff, so he sent him to stay with his SUPER conservative, catholic grandmother; she treated him like a child, gave him no privacy, did not allow him to lock his room... She judged him horribly and humiliated him for not being a "man" as the church wanted him to be. I think that did a lot of damage. He said here he wanted to control the men, but in other interviews he said he just wanted "someone to stay with him, and won't leave". That's kind of sad.
I'd be super interessed to see how different the interview would have been if his father hadn't been present.
I totally believe the dad was there to monitor and censor Jeffrey's behaviour, so he wouldn't incriminate the dad for being abusive and controlling. Seems to be working. As someone who was severely abused as a child and well into my adulthood, I can 100% recognise this.
yes, I , like others here have a very strong impression that while J.D did these horrendous acts his father may well have lit the fuse decades earlier-in fact more "Evil" emanates from the "loving father" that wrote the book. Nor do I think that any sexual abuse committed was not in some way connected to the father.
Could you guys analyze Charles Manson and "his girls?" So fascinating that would be.
Or the San Quentin interview. Would also love to hear the BHP take on his statements and reasoning. Manson is fascinating.
Those girls were histrionic I bet
A lot of children think they’re having a normal childhood. It’s all they know at the time. I grew up in a dysfunctional home, but thought it was normal.
Yes!!! This is so important to realize
Blue Belle ~~
Maybe some see it as normal. But all I had to do was go to a friend's house to see that mine was NOT normal at all.
@@laswan5, I agree. Once I was old enough to have friends, I realized that my home life was very different from others.
Dahmer hates his father. I would not have been aware of that had it not been pointed out by TBP Dahmer’s subtle look of disgust each time his father touched him or inserted himself in the discussion. Also how Dahmer leaned as far away from his father as he could. At the beginning, I couldn’t understand why his father was there at all, but now I understand somewhat. I think he worried about what his son would say, and also I think he wanted to continue his dominance. I can see how he has inserted himself into the interview and perhaps is trying to control it.
In a way, Dahmer’s father is as sick and twisted as his son. He certainly gives me the creeps. As Mark said, the fact that he wrote a book about what his son did is quite appalling. I wonder about Dahmer’s brother…how he feels about his father and what his life has been like.
Yes I agree. Well described. I wonder if there is an interview with the father. That would be interesting.
Would also love to see The Panel analyze someone who turned out to be proven innocent.
That would be interesting. The Panel is about honesty versus deception, irrespective of guilt or innocence.
I was thinking the same thing! Could be hard to find one that’s interesting but there must be something out there.
They did. The plea of Cleo Smith's parents, the Australian girl who was abducted. And before she was found alive and healthy, the panel had already said they were innocent
Lindy Chamberlain.
The West Memphis three.
I think Jeffrey wanted to get his father’s approval and also was acting out against him. It’s interesting that dad needs to be at every interview.
The dad was there, I believe, to make sure Jeffrey didn't incriminate him by talking about the abuse in his childhood.
His mother was more dysfunctional on all sorts of pills while pregnant, plus she paid little to no attention during his formative years. All her energy was devoted at anger toward her husband and Jeff being completley neglected. Both parents abandoned him at a crucial time in his life. Just because you’re 18 doesn’t mean you have life figured out. A severe lack of mother’s love and attention growing up really messed him big time.
Agreed!!
Boys need a mommy figure
Girls need a daddy figure
Neglectful mother, abusive father, recipe for disaster.