UPDATE 2/6/204: I am choosing to keep this video up and to keep calling these principles "Jaquaysing the Dungeon" to honor the life and legacy of Jennell Jaquays.
The trans community generates the most vital and heartfelt work in ttrpgs, both in this century and the last. The hobby and artform would be empty without their contributions. The least I can do is remember their names.@@astridposey
I was unfamiliar with Jennell’s work until until watching this video today, and am now down a rabbit hole exploring the treasure trove that is her back-catalogue. I’m sad to hear she’s no longer with us, but am thankful for videos such as this which keep her legacy alive for the uninitiated like myself.
@Creatotron I think he was pointing out that the base verb is "to jaquays", not "to jaquay". It'd be like bus, gas, and times as verbs. That said, as far as I can tell it was The Alexandrian which coined the term. Justin chose "to jaquay" as the base verb. The S was dropped, perhaps for aesthetics since apparently verbs ending with a single S are very rare in English.
This is a channel for folks that are interested in seeing how one might go about it. I have several drawing tutorial videos, should someone decide to give it a shot. Cheers!@@nneisler
THANK YOU, FOR ACTUALLY DRAWING A MAP AS AN EXAMPLE INSTEAD OF JUST TALKING ABOUT THE CONCEPT. Not enough people do that with dungeon design videos. Thank you.
Yesss! This absolutely helped. even some of my favorite youtube channels just talk about dungeon concepts and tho they are helpful, actually SEEING what you're talking about is much more helpful to me. Definitely subscribed and will check out your other videos for inspiration to run a dirty dungeon crawl!
Yeah this was my issue too. I could understand a lot of what the Alexandrian was saying across many of his articles but this one always baffled me without a good visual example of it being done.
Great video! One thing I would add is that if you have a secret passage it should serve a purpose - not just exist for the adventurers to find. Perhaps it is there so the denizens can bypass a hazard or trap. Maybe it's there so some monsters can avoid others. It may have served a purpose previously and been forgotten about by the current occupants... There should always be a reason.
And sometimes that reason can be that it functions better to have a link! A cave system has plenty of excuses to have underused or unnoticed cracks and passages. Some things are not designed, but simply happen to exist! But it is a good idea to think about the reality of the space, and about the whys and hows
A dungeon that I added multiple entrances to was a kua’toa cave lair consisting of a series of cave chambers connected by water-filled tunnels, who’s main entrance was underwater and opened into a lake. The alternate entrances were a concealed chimney/air channel just big enough for a Small size character to fit through, and a narrow underwater channel leading to the kua’toa toilet chamber.
There are two more points I would add: Every exit is an entrance and every entrance is an exit. If your map shows one entry point at the start of the dungeon and one exit point at the end in the boss's chamber or treasure room, then you already have a dungeon with two entrances and two exits. And this leads to point two I would add: Most of the dungeon is skippable if there is an exit right next to the goal, becaus ethat exit is an entrance. No matter how many entrances/exits you have and how many optional paths there are, the goal of the dungeon, the Big Boss, the Treasure, the Hostages, should be aproximately equidistant from each entry/exit point. Secret passages can create shortcuts, but the openly vissible and accessible paths from any entry need to go through as many obstacles, threats and rooms as the paths from any other entry. There is a reason the Minotaur sits in the center of the labyrinth, not at its exit.
In the sense of realism, you're absolutely right. But for the reality of being a game world, unless getting back _out_ of the dungeon is meant to be a challenge in itself, dungeons of this style generally allow players to _Skyrim_ their way out, like a hidden latch only accessible from the interior that leads you out between some anonymous boulders. This way, the PCs can more quickly and easily get to whatever the next interesting situation that they're going to find themselves in, instead of just wasting time backtracking for realism's sake.
The minotaur is in the middle of the dungeon because he's lost as shit, that was entirely the point of that dungeon, a good dungeon doesn't make itself annoying for the sake of jerking itself off, hidden exits are stupidly common in places that could need to have people leave them, like the white house, the key is that the way is guarded subtlety and kept secret
@@darkowl9 In a TTRPG there's zero need to let players Skyrim their way out. Unlike a video game, where time flows at a fixed pace, you can easily handwave the time needed to backtrack to a relevant/safe entrance. You don't have to compromise verisimilitude because there's already a feature that solves that problem.
@@calebbarnhouse496 That's very dependent on who and what the big bad is. There's a fair chance that a BBEG who even has a lair like this has underlings who take care of whatever petty matters require actually going outside. Or, if they do have a personal exit deeper in the dungeon, it might not be something the players can even use. Something like aerial/ceiling entrances or underwater tunnels.
The verb is jaquaying tho; the two are related, not the same, no? Be like saying 'smithing' ought to be 'o'smithing' because there are o'smiths out there.
Wow, thank you very much. I am a person who dreams of becoming a game developer in Korea. I'm studying level design these days, and it helped a lot. Of course, I think I missed half of the English interpretation. Anyway, thank you so much. It was quite helpful.
It was also not terribly common in "classic" dungeon design. Lotta stinkers. The good ones get remembered. And modern dungeons have both, too. Age of Ashes from PF2e has some really great level design. What's the proportionality? Dunno; doubt anyone's done a comprehensive study. But if i had to guess, i'd think rose-tinted glasses have a lot to do with it. And the fact it gets called Jaquaying, after the Alexandrian article, shows 1) our design philosophy's come a long way, and 2) it couldn't have been all *that* common back then, or we'd just call it "classic dungeon design." But no, that could mean hiding initials in maps or instant death pit traps or any number of... less-useful things. Now we can learn from the mistakes of the "classic" past and the "modern" past.
@@origami_dream Oh god classic dungeon maps are awful but they have a lot of good ideas. I often use materials from ADND for my campaigns and the base design is more often than not technically flawed like dungeons make no sense 🤣
I almost cried when you brought up your experience with this particular map, because I had a sudden flood of memories of my very first adventure, where I DMed this for my brother. Thank you for the nostalgia trip and helpful tips!
I love this video format - From the thumbnail, your to the point explanation, your craftmanship with isometric map making. It's so fun to watch and learn!!
_Black Fang's Cave_ is my favorite back pocket dungeon. The adjustments I've made to it mostly deal with the ecology of the dungeon, and how it changed when the original inhabitants left, when the goblins moved in, and when the dragon started lairing there. I've heard the term 'Jaquaying the dungeon' before, but hadn't thought about it much. Good video.
I love the way that you telegraph enough info to the player to make the choices meaningful instead mere chance or luck. If the player sees no difference, it may as well be the same path or a dice roll.
I recently (well, 6+ months ago) GMd this very dungeon and I gotta say I wish this vid had already been out because it is a definitive improvement. Much as I enjoyed it in its as written form, your mods really make it shine. Thanks for the inspiration.
I think the Dungeon as written is a lovely one-shot introduction to the hobby, deploying is as anything more than an introduction to new players and GMs is probably asking too much of it. Than you for the kind words!
Thank you so much for sharing this. I love your video. It is short to the point. You give credit to the person from whom you got the idea. And you explain it very well. Thank you so much for sharing this.
What an excellent, relaxed technique video. I really enjoy watching you draw as you go, and your thumbnails are excellent. Ben from Questing Beast sent me, and I'm glad he did! Subbed.
Thank you! I was so pleased to open up the Glatisant yesterday to see I got mentioned! Ben is an inspiration to me, so it was a wonderful honor! Cheers!
Not a lot of people seem to be aware, but the Alexandrian has a TH-cam channel now, too! I'm always glad to see more exposure for him and his articles :)
I saw this featured on the Deeper in the Game blog. Great video! I use the same techniques for overland travel. Giving the players multiple, descriptive, looping paths works at any scale.
You talking about having a different set of professional work and work for your home game reminds me of what happened when me and my buddy overhauled survival and overland travel (originally for 5e, later for Pathfinder 1st edition) Both of us are DMs that play in each other's games, this becomes somewhat important to understand the chain of events. So I decided to do a complete overhaul of wilderness travel and exploration, and used my players as Guinea Pigs in a travel focused one shot. They all loved it so my buddy adopted it in his game, made some modifications for his campaign (which I'm a ranger in), and massively expanded it to include options for traveling slower to get downtime. I loved this and adopted his expansion into my own game. But the two separate rulesets were confusing for our players so we decided to get together one day and codify it. So we write like a 10 page word document for survival, wilderness travel, resting, entertainment, and an expansion of downtime.... Shortly after codifying it my campaign ended so I started another one, and immediately modified my own rules to suit my campaign (it was written for general high to epic fantasy and I was running a campaign set in a lower fantasy dark ages) and then my buddy modified the rules again for his own campaign which was now set in an alternate 1890s Earth. So while we were still using basically the same survival rules at their core, we still ended up with houserules upon our houserules tailored to our own campaigns, and we continued to modify them for each new campaign. And despite designing them together I don't think either of us has ever used the houserules exactly as written. We also did literally the exact same thing with dungeon delving later (although that was significantly less expansive) taking a lot of rules from other systems (especially AD&D) and revitalizing and revamping them to fit our preferred system (Pathfinder 1e). And again I have houseruled my own houserules pretty much every campaign I've run to better suit my group and setting.
Map Crow, I love this video because you talk about the topic and talk about utilizing it while also physically prepping your game. Excellent to watch and listen to!
Best one yet! Loved the old shout out to your younger self then the awesome modifications. It's actually a fun creative mind game, draw a standard semi-linear dungeon, then start noodling about to Jaquay it. You just invented a new solo game of the hobby!
Great video. Role-playing games are about making choices, meaningful choices. In all the playing and GM-ing advice I'd ever heard, it seemed like no one ever talked about this. The ability to choose is what makes RPGs, especially tabletop, different from any other medium for storytelling. When you start finding ways to put meaningful choices into your games the effect is powerful. Have a great day everyone! 😀
Even if it was long you could always just come back you know, youtube allows you to see your comment on top of this section so even if youre switching from mobile to pc you can see your time stamp.
Ah man when you first mentioned the criteria I thought this was going to be one of those suggestions that end up just adding more prep for very little benefit in the game. But the last few sections. Flavourful options. Unique experiences Options for creating roleplay and character spotlights(rogue lockpi king door) I think it's great. Baldurs Gate 3(still in early access at this moment) Does this incredibly well (Spoiler I guess?) The first "dungeon" u get to is a cathedral. And the amount of options u get to enter is astounding for a video game. (In my few playthroughs) 1. Big door where you meet companion. Rogue lockpick(u enter a trapped room so the rogue with some evasion get more spotlight) this puts u in the crypts below. 2. The main above ground entrance. U have to fight some humanoids above. You can lie to the guard behind the door and says your his friends outside(charisma character spotlight) This leads you into the library for a straight fight with the enemies behind the door. 3. Dropping the pillar hanging above a hole in the ground. (It's under construction and gives ranged characters something other than enemies to hit). This gives you the drop on the enemies in step 2. As you land in behind them(or was it on them) 4. Back cave exit. I only noticed this leaving the dungeon the first time. But after the trapped room. In a nice crossroads of trap room. Exit cave. Humanoid entrance and the final boss. It all links up nicely. I never noticed how fun that was outright untill you explicitly mentioned it and explained it it in this video.
So I 100% agree with this concept. The more dynamic and flexible a dungeon is the better. I think one thing I've always struggled with when I look at a map like this though is finding verisimilitude with the general layout. I'm going to make some assumptions that could 100% be wrong, but I think it addresses my point regardless. I've seen maps like this fairly often where we could draw some lines where like... The skeletons, Goblins and Spiders are all in conflict with each other within the dungeon. ((Again, I don't know for this one if that's the case.)) I do like how that provides a lot of room to creatively pin them against each other. Baiting the spiders to come in and attack the goblins, or luring the skeletons away to skirmish with the others as you sneak past, maybe being able to negotiate with a cowardly goblin and eliminate the spiders for some information or assistance. I think all that can be super cool, but to make it a believable situation, I feel the maps need to be much bigger to give each faction within the space to breath in a more natural and believable way. If we assume the spiers are predators to the goblins, it feels strange to have them sleeping so close to where they could be attacked for example. I'm curious if anyone has any insight in creative ways to deal with this issue without having to expand the map to more naturally space out conflicting factions within the dungeon.
You are correct that making a dungeon larger will make it seem more plausible, however the play experience won’t really change that much, in my experience. It really depends on how you interpret the map to your players more that what is on the map. I am generally more concerned with a compelling and transparent game world than I am with an accurate simulation, but to each there own!
This was kind of amazing because I'm actually really familiar with all of these elements; Jaquaying from the Alexandria and the Pathfinder beginners box. I'm actually running the beginners box again this week for a new group of players. This is probably my 10th time running it because it is also my favorite starting dungeon. I will definitely be making these changes. This all just came together at the perfect time. Amazing.
I think it would be great to just give the goblin king the key. He has a reason to hold it (he’s a leader and the door is dangerous), and it makes the second entrance a more effective shortcut if the players don’t want to fully explore the dungeon.
i'd go with putting it on the water guard working for the dragon. He communicates with the dragon using a small peon that can squeeze through the crack, but if you kill the water guard before the goblin king he won't warn the dragon since all the goblin peons are dead.
making the goblin king technically lower rank than the water guard in the dragon's eyes can also opens up some interesting charisma/intelligence RP between the two if the party is clever and/or the dm provides information about the location beforehand
This map is so cute! I adore that little dragon you drew so much :) Also, the concepts you go over in this video are great. I will be applying all of this stuff immediately!
Interestingly, the first thing I thought of when you wrote down those 3 guidelines is Elden Ring, they do an incredible job with their dungeons and are a pretty great example of all of those things!
YES! A different flavor for each path indeed! I think people miss the point that the different paths should probably involve different challenges. They used one of Jaquays seminal maps from Counterstrike and noted that there were three loops to the objective. One emphasized close quarters combat, another ranged combat, one was shortest but must deadly. For D&D maybe one is undead but the group with no cleric takes another route. One involves greater ranged shots or whatever, one is more rogueish involves sneaking, disarming traps etc. One may just be a path you shouldnt take against an overpowered foe unless you have some special ability, but the other path is the one used by legions of goblins who move around the big bad to avoid contact too. Any combination works, use your imagination and make them interesting.
I ran this dungeon for my players! My version of it, at least. They had a blast, and ended up using all three entrances over the course of the adventure!
Great advice, it's just a few weeks too late for my first dungeon design (though it's an introductory dungeon set in a townhouse so not many options for entrances/loops) and my party's about to enter The Mists so it'll be a while before they get into anything new that I've personally designed, but it's certainly useful information to keep in mind!
This was awesome to watch :D This dungeon was also my entry into PF 1e as a DM. My players loved it back then but this would definitely have made it even better.
There is one thing I would add/remove and it is the "exit". Unless this path is an obstacle to another region (Like the Underground Pass in Oldschool RuneScape) I don't think a dungeon really should have an easy to spot or reach exit. In the case of having a dragon at the end of the dungeon there should be a way or path the dragon could take to get out of the dungeon that the players would have a very hard time to do. Like a crevice upwards big enough for the dragon to fly out of/in from. For the players to use this crevice as an entrance or escape they they would have to have climbing equipment or something of the sort.
I think having a "back door" works well, but like you said, make it really hard for the players to use it or make it very unattractive. I've run dungeons that had crevasses leading to the underdark. The goblins would use the passage for hunting, but my players didn't have any real motive to go there. I said something like, "Looking at the goods in this chamber and the slope of the passage, you think this leads to the underdark. You're likely to encounter more goblins and probably bigger monsters if you go that way." Could they have chosen that path? Sure. I just would have started rolling random encounters with minimal loot until they went back (or died).
Thank you, a useful way of looking at dungeon design. A couple of questions: How would you give the dragon a way of leaving/entering his lair without messing up encounter sequence, a chimney perhaps? Could the measures each monster group takes to defend against the opthers add another layer of interest?
In my first ever DnD session, the DM had an optional route to the end of our first dungeon. It was a steep slope-like tunnel meant as an escape route for the enemies, however I asked if my rogue with a +6 in acrobatics could scale it. He let me, I rolled a 19 and with my rope I helped my party get up there...
Good concise explanation of concept. However, your modifications to the map will also impact one under-discussed dungeon concept; chain reaction encounters and villain contingency planning. Adding new connections to areas will potentially transmit light/sound of party activity and alert/agro other (now connected) inhabitants of those areas. Does the dragon occasionally peek out of the smokey crack and get a heads up that her lair has been invaded? How will that change the encounter in her lair? Can the goblins be alerted to the party by hearing them slay spiders? What are their orders regarding intruders? Sometimes dungeon spaces are treated almost as pocket dimensions that can have no bearing on any other rooms/encounters no matter what the players do. And, while simple and easy to run, also lack the rich complexity of a more realistic nature of a layered defense and escalating tactics one would find when dealing with an intelligent opponent.
I have a question... How do you hide informations you want your player to find and really discover irl with these maps ? How do you hide narrow passages if you do hide them ?
I mostly use these maps for prep notes, not really for battle maps. I would narrate things theatre of the mind until a fight that needs a grid. That's just my personal style
@mapcrow that's a very stylish prep note if you ask me hahaha. I guess, I would say it's a shame such beautiful visuals can't be shared with the players but I understand. Thanks for the answer
"Brought to you by Old Roads 'zine. If you would like to know more, check the description for a link." I don't see mention of "Old Roads" in this video's description text box.
Easy mode entrace: Obvious entrance Medium entrance: Locked door in a graveyard or mausoleum with enemies surrounding entrance, requires knkowledge to find Hard mode entrance: Fall through a trap door into spider boss, no way to leave dungeon from this room
Great video, I am starting to GM and I found it very helpful. After drawing this map, do you give something to your players? like, the same map but just with the terrain or just describe what they encounter? Please, excuse my English, it is not my native language.
I really like to give my players an unlabeled map. I'm not worried about emersion and information scarcity, I would rather focus on an approachable game, you know? Cheers!!
What type of graph paper is this and where can I find it? It looks awesome and I would love to utilize it :) Also, just found your channel. You've definitely gained a sub! This is amazing :)
Now maybe this is an entirely different subject, but how do you present this to your players? Do you re sketch it without the details? Do you cover it up and reveal as they go? Do you just plop this down and say go? I'm really curious!
try doing it the other way around. You know. Just roam a blank map and trace the route then build around it making sure everywhere you looked at will be something to put an eye on.
Hi Kyle, How do you use a map like this in your game? Is it a reference only for yourself, do you provide it with undiscovered rooms hidden with something like post-its, or do you how the whole map and trust your players to separate the meta-knowledge from their play? I've found a plethora of map-making videos, but almost nothing on how some folks actually use it in play. My only experience using maps has been the post-it method but I'm curious about other opinions.
“You stand in front of a vine swaddled cave. A crumbling staircase climbs the mountain side to your right. A bat struggles to free itself from a spider web to the right. What do you do?”
That's one potential way of doing it. When I was playing Basic D&D in the 90s, my DM just told us that was a thing that's possible. Up to that point, I had never considered it, and so as a player it became a thing I learned to look for before going in through the front door.
UPDATE 2/6/204: I am choosing to keep this video up and to keep calling these principles "Jaquaysing the Dungeon" to honor the life and legacy of Jennell Jaquays.
Thank you for this. This is certainly her method, and it should keep her name, and we should get it right.
Thank you! It means a lot to the trans community who are ttrpg gamers.
The trans community generates the most vital and heartfelt work in ttrpgs, both in this century and the last. The hobby and artform would be empty without their contributions. The least I can do is remember their names.@@astridposey
I was unfamiliar with Jennell’s work until until watching this video today, and am now down a rabbit hole exploring the treasure trove that is her back-catalogue. I’m sad to hear she’s no longer with us, but am thankful for videos such as this which keep her legacy alive for the uninitiated like myself.
Hi! Sorry if I'm being inopportune, but can I ask the source of the music in the video? In particular the ones at 5:35 and 7:29.
So sad to hear that Jennell Jaquays has passed away this week. I was very fortunate to work with her on Central Casting. A legend will be missed.
BTW It’s “Jaquaysing the Dungeon” because the artist’s name is Jennell Jaquays (with an “s”). I messed this up when I made the video.
Thank you for fixing this.
@Creatotron I think he was pointing out that the base verb is "to jaquays", not "to jaquay". It'd be like bus, gas, and times as verbs.
That said, as far as I can tell it was The Alexandrian which coined the term. Justin chose "to jaquay" as the base verb. The S was dropped, perhaps for aesthetics since apparently verbs ending with a single S are very rare in English.
@Creatotron ROFL thank you for this!
Not everyone can draw such a swell map
This is a channel for folks that are interested in seeing how one might go about it. I have several drawing tutorial videos, should someone decide to give it a shot. Cheers!@@nneisler
THANK YOU, FOR ACTUALLY DRAWING A MAP AS AN EXAMPLE INSTEAD OF JUST TALKING ABOUT THE CONCEPT.
Not enough people do that with dungeon design videos. Thank you.
Ha! You’re welcome! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Agreed, I can't tell you how much you've helped me understand some of these concepts!
Yesss! This absolutely helped. even some of my favorite youtube channels just talk about dungeon concepts and tho they are helpful, actually SEEING what you're talking about is much more helpful to me. Definitely subscribed and will check out your other videos for inspiration to run a dirty dungeon crawl!
Yeah this was my issue too. I could understand a lot of what the Alexandrian was saying across many of his articles but this one always baffled me without a good visual example of it being done.
That isometric graph paper is choice. It really makes it feel like an actual space, rather than the traditional grid style!
This is weirdly magical to see the map transform and come to life. I will 100% be making maps like this from now on!
Thank you mike! I hope you find it useful and fun!!
Great video! One thing I would add is that if you have a secret passage it should serve a purpose - not just exist for the adventurers to find.
Perhaps it is there so the denizens can bypass a hazard or trap. Maybe it's there so some monsters can avoid others. It may have served a purpose previously and been forgotten about by the current occupants...
There should always be a reason.
"The previous owners wallpapered over a door and decided fixing it wasn't worth the hassle" is a personal favorite of mine.
And sometimes that reason can be that it functions better to have a link! A cave system has plenty of excuses to have underused or unnoticed cracks and passages. Some things are not designed, but simply happen to exist! But it is a good idea to think about the reality of the space, and about the whys and hows
A dungeon that I added multiple entrances to was a kua’toa cave lair consisting of a series of cave chambers connected by water-filled tunnels, who’s main entrance was underwater and opened into a lake. The alternate entrances were a concealed chimney/air channel just big enough for a Small size character to fit through, and a narrow underwater channel leading to the kua’toa toilet chamber.
There are two more points I would add:
Every exit is an entrance and every entrance is an exit. If your map shows one entry point at the start of the dungeon and one exit point at the end in the boss's chamber or treasure room, then you already have a dungeon with two entrances and two exits.
And this leads to point two I would add:
Most of the dungeon is skippable if there is an exit right next to the goal, becaus ethat exit is an entrance. No matter how many entrances/exits you have and how many optional paths there are, the goal of the dungeon, the Big Boss, the Treasure, the Hostages, should be aproximately equidistant from each entry/exit point. Secret passages can create shortcuts, but the openly vissible and accessible paths from any entry need to go through as many obstacles, threats and rooms as the paths from any other entry. There is a reason the Minotaur sits in the center of the labyrinth, not at its exit.
In the sense of realism, you're absolutely right. But for the reality of being a game world, unless getting back _out_ of the dungeon is meant to be a challenge in itself, dungeons of this style generally allow players to _Skyrim_ their way out, like a hidden latch only accessible from the interior that leads you out between some anonymous boulders. This way, the PCs can more quickly and easily get to whatever the next interesting situation that they're going to find themselves in, instead of just wasting time backtracking for realism's sake.
The minotaur is in the middle of the dungeon because he's lost as shit, that was entirely the point of that dungeon, a good dungeon doesn't make itself annoying for the sake of jerking itself off, hidden exits are stupidly common in places that could need to have people leave them, like the white house, the key is that the way is guarded subtlety and kept secret
@@darkowl9 In a TTRPG there's zero need to let players Skyrim their way out. Unlike a video game, where time flows at a fixed pace, you can easily handwave the time needed to backtrack to a relevant/safe entrance. You don't have to compromise verisimilitude because there's already a feature that solves that problem.
@@dmdizzy ok, and do you think the big bad wants to spend 40 minutes walking through his home to go outside?
@@calebbarnhouse496 That's very dependent on who and what the big bad is. There's a fair chance that a BBEG who even has a lair like this has underlings who take care of whatever petty matters require actually going outside. Or, if they do have a personal exit deeper in the dungeon, it might not be something the players can even use. Something like aerial/ceiling entrances or underwater tunnels.
Let's all take a moment to appreciate how cool it is that Jennell Jaquays got a whole methodology named after her! What a badass!
And now Alexander is trying to retcon and erase her name and take credit for her work. What a coat riding sack of garbage.
Her name is Jennell Jaquays by the way, with an s on the end. As she's said before the term really ought to be jaquaysing the dungeon ;)
Haha! Marvelous! I had watched an interview with her to get it right, but botched it none the less, it seems!
The verb is jaquaying tho; the two are related, not the same, no? Be like saying 'smithing' ought to be 'o'smithing' because there are o'smiths out there.
@@lickenchicken143 Jaquays herself has been the one to request the change. The term is referring to a specific person, not a vague general category
These particulars are making me jaqueasy
@@MrCantStopTheRobot your internet pursuits are self or perhaps algorithm directed, Mr. Unstoppable.
Wow, thank you very much.
I am a person who dreams of becoming a game developer in Korea. I'm studying level design these days, and it helped a lot. Of course, I think I missed half of the English interpretation.
Anyway, thank you so much.
It was quite helpful.
Right on!! Also be sure to check out the people on Across RPGSEA for some of the fine developers from South East Asia too! Cheers!!
Excellent summary of a technique that seems to have been forgotten in a lot of "modern" dungeon design!
It was also not terribly common in "classic" dungeon design. Lotta stinkers. The good ones get remembered. And modern dungeons have both, too. Age of Ashes from PF2e has some really great level design. What's the proportionality? Dunno; doubt anyone's done a comprehensive study. But if i had to guess, i'd think rose-tinted glasses have a lot to do with it. And the fact it gets called Jaquaying, after the Alexandrian article, shows 1) our design philosophy's come a long way, and 2) it couldn't have been all *that* common back then, or we'd just call it "classic dungeon design." But no, that could mean hiding initials in maps or instant death pit traps or any number of... less-useful things. Now we can learn from the mistakes of the "classic" past and the "modern" past.
@@origami_dream Oh god classic dungeon maps are awful but they have a lot of good ideas. I often use materials from ADND for my campaigns and the base design is more often than not technically flawed like dungeons make no sense 🤣
I almost cried when you brought up your experience with this particular map, because I had a sudden flood of memories of my very first adventure, where I DMed this for my brother. Thank you for the nostalgia trip and helpful tips!
Oh wow! Yeah, memories of gaming can be so precious and bittersweet. Cheers!!
I love this video format - From the thumbnail, your to the point explanation, your craftmanship with isometric map making. It's so fun to watch and learn!!
Oh wonderful!! I’m so glad you find this interesting!! Cheers!!
_Black Fang's Cave_ is my favorite back pocket dungeon. The adjustments I've made to it mostly deal with the ecology of the dungeon, and how it changed when the original inhabitants left, when the goblins moved in, and when the dragon started lairing there. I've heard the term 'Jaquaying the dungeon' before, but hadn't thought about it much. Good video.
I love the way that you telegraph enough info to the player to make the choices meaningful instead mere chance or luck. If the player sees no difference, it may as well be the same path or a dice roll.
I recently (well, 6+ months ago) GMd this very dungeon and I gotta say I wish this vid had already been out because it is a definitive improvement. Much as I enjoyed it in its as written form, your mods really make it shine. Thanks for the inspiration.
I think the Dungeon as written is a lovely one-shot introduction to the hobby, deploying is as anything more than an introduction to new players and GMs is probably asking too much of it. Than you for the kind words!
This was really clear and concise. I appreciate how you used a pre-existing dungeon to demonstrate this on.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I love your video. It is short to the point. You give credit to the person from whom you got the idea. And you explain it very well. Thank you so much for sharing this.
What an excellent, relaxed technique video. I really enjoy watching you draw as you go, and your thumbnails are excellent.
Ben from Questing Beast sent me, and I'm glad he did! Subbed.
Thank you! I was so pleased to open up the Glatisant yesterday to see I got mentioned! Ben is an inspiration to me, so it was a wonderful honor! Cheers!
Not a lot of people seem to be aware, but the Alexandrian has a TH-cam channel now, too! I'm always glad to see more exposure for him and his articles :)
He does? Thanks for this comment!
I saw this featured on the Deeper in the Game blog. Great video! I use the same techniques for overland travel. Giving the players multiple, descriptive, looping paths works at any scale.
Thank you! Yeah! It’s very similar to a point crawl, except there are stronger barriers and wall!
You talking about having a different set of professional work and work for your home game reminds me of what happened when me and my buddy overhauled survival and overland travel (originally for 5e, later for Pathfinder 1st edition)
Both of us are DMs that play in each other's games, this becomes somewhat important to understand the chain of events. So I decided to do a complete overhaul of wilderness travel and exploration, and used my players as Guinea Pigs in a travel focused one shot. They all loved it so my buddy adopted it in his game, made some modifications for his campaign (which I'm a ranger in), and massively expanded it to include options for traveling slower to get downtime. I loved this and adopted his expansion into my own game. But the two separate rulesets were confusing for our players so we decided to get together one day and codify it. So we write like a 10 page word document for survival, wilderness travel, resting, entertainment, and an expansion of downtime.... Shortly after codifying it my campaign ended so I started another one, and immediately modified my own rules to suit my campaign (it was written for general high to epic fantasy and I was running a campaign set in a lower fantasy dark ages) and then my buddy modified the rules again for his own campaign which was now set in an alternate 1890s Earth. So while we were still using basically the same survival rules at their core, we still ended up with houserules upon our houserules tailored to our own campaigns, and we continued to modify them for each new campaign. And despite designing them together I don't think either of us has ever used the houserules exactly as written.
We also did literally the exact same thing with dungeon delving later (although that was significantly less expansive) taking a lot of rules from other systems (especially AD&D) and revitalizing and revamping them to fit our preferred system (Pathfinder 1e). And again I have houseruled my own houserules pretty much every campaign I've run to better suit my group and setting.
I'm not a dungeoneer but this will certainly come helpful in my future map layouts. Thanks
Map Crow, I love this video because you talk about the topic and talk about utilizing it while also physically prepping your game. Excellent to watch and listen to!
Wonderful! I’m glad you like it!
Lovely video with superb presentation. It really doesn't get much better than what's presented here.
Best one yet! Loved the old shout out to your younger self then the awesome modifications. It's actually a fun creative mind game, draw a standard semi-linear dungeon, then start noodling about to Jaquay it. You just invented a new solo game of the hobby!
Great video. Role-playing games are about making choices, meaningful choices. In all the playing and GM-ing advice I'd ever heard, it seemed like no one ever talked about this. The ability to choose is what makes RPGs, especially tabletop, different from any other medium for storytelling. When you start finding ways to put meaningful choices into your games the effect is powerful. Have a great day everyone! 😀
The arbitrary and random can add surprise to a game, but giving player decisions meaning and consequence it what it's all about! Thanks for watching!!
This is very timely, because I find myself revising one of my dungeons now. Thanks for sharing!
Interesting idea, really lets you add more personality to a dungeon
1:17 "so avoid spaces that just have one route that goes straight through"
Yeah, Skyrim! Geez!
This was really great! Informative, clear, and not overly long!
Love it! Keep up the good work man!
Even if it was long you could always just come back you know, youtube allows you to see your comment on top of this section so even if youre switching from mobile to pc you can see your time stamp.
That 1e pathfinder dungeon was my first ever RPG experience. Thanks for bringing back so many good memories man
This was super helpful! Thanks for drawing the example, it illustrated the point really well, especially adapting an existing dungeon
Brilliant. I love the concept of Jacquaying and it looks even better with a beautiful isometric map.
Ah man when you first mentioned the criteria I thought this was going to be one of those suggestions that end up just adding more prep for very little benefit in the game.
But the last few sections.
Flavourful options.
Unique experiences
Options for creating roleplay and character spotlights(rogue lockpi king door)
I think it's great.
Baldurs Gate 3(still in early access at this moment)
Does this incredibly well
(Spoiler I guess?)
The first "dungeon" u get to is a cathedral.
And the amount of options u get to enter is astounding for a video game.
(In my few playthroughs)
1. Big door where you meet companion. Rogue lockpick(u enter a trapped room so the rogue with some evasion get more spotlight) this puts u in the crypts below.
2. The main above ground entrance.
U have to fight some humanoids above. You can lie to the guard behind the door and says your his friends outside(charisma character spotlight)
This leads you into the library for a straight fight with the enemies behind the door.
3. Dropping the pillar hanging above a hole in the ground. (It's under construction and gives ranged characters something other than enemies to hit). This gives you the drop on the enemies in step 2. As you land in behind them(or was it on them)
4. Back cave exit. I only noticed this leaving the dungeon the first time. But after the trapped room. In a nice crossroads of trap room. Exit cave. Humanoid entrance and the final boss. It all links up nicely.
I never noticed how fun that was outright untill you explicitly mentioned it and explained it it in this video.
I was attempting to describe this concept to somebody else. Now I have a go-to video for those newer DMs. Thank you!
So I 100% agree with this concept. The more dynamic and flexible a dungeon is the better.
I think one thing I've always struggled with when I look at a map like this though is finding verisimilitude with the general layout.
I'm going to make some assumptions that could 100% be wrong, but I think it addresses my point regardless.
I've seen maps like this fairly often where we could draw some lines where like... The skeletons, Goblins and Spiders are all in conflict with each other within the dungeon. ((Again, I don't know for this one if that's the case.)) I do like how that provides a lot of room to creatively pin them against each other. Baiting the spiders to come in and attack the goblins, or luring the skeletons away to skirmish with the others as you sneak past, maybe being able to negotiate with a cowardly goblin and eliminate the spiders for some information or assistance. I think all that can be super cool, but to make it a believable situation, I feel the maps need to be much bigger to give each faction within the space to breath in a more natural and believable way.
If we assume the spiers are predators to the goblins, it feels strange to have them sleeping so close to where they could be attacked for example.
I'm curious if anyone has any insight in creative ways to deal with this issue without having to expand the map to more naturally space out conflicting factions within the dungeon.
You are correct that making a dungeon larger will make it seem more plausible, however the play experience won’t really change that much, in my experience. It really depends on how you interpret the map to your players more that what is on the map. I am generally more concerned with a compelling and transparent game world than I am with an accurate simulation, but to each there own!
Very good summation of the classic design formula for a D&D scenario. Liked the illustrated approach very much!
This was kind of amazing because I'm actually really familiar with all of these elements; Jaquaying from the Alexandria and the Pathfinder beginners box. I'm actually running the beginners box again this week for a new group of players. This is probably my 10th time running it because it is also my favorite starting dungeon. I will definitely be making these changes. This all just came together at the perfect time. Amazing.
Thank you so much for watching, and for the kind words!! If you run the dungeon with changes inspired by this video, let me know how it goes!!
I think it would be great to just give the goblin king the key. He has a reason to hold it (he’s a leader and the door is dangerous), and it makes the second entrance a more effective shortcut if the players don’t want to fully explore the dungeon.
i'd go with putting it on the water guard working for the dragon. He communicates with the dragon using a small peon that can squeeze through the crack, but if you kill the water guard before the goblin king he won't warn the dragon since all the goblin peons are dead.
making the goblin king technically lower rank than the water guard in the dragon's eyes can also opens up some interesting charisma/intelligence RP between the two if the party is clever and/or the dm provides information about the location beforehand
Fantastic video! Anyone who wants to design adventures could benefit from giving this a watch!
Music at 1:00 :
Author: Aufhocker
Album: Lordless
Track: No Gods
This map is so cute! I adore that little dragon you drew so much :)
Also, the concepts you go over in this video are great. I will be applying all of this stuff immediately!
Interestingly, the first thing I thought of when you wrote down those 3 guidelines is Elden Ring, they do an incredible job with their dungeons and are a pretty great example of all of those things!
Have you played Dark Souls 1? The entire game is a giant stormveil-esque space that loops back on itself.
@@Salsmachev oh yeah DS1 is one of my absolute most favourite examples of level design ever, it's phenomenal
I love it! Nothing like a good example to really explain a concept!
This is an amazing example. I mostly make overland maps but these concepts can be applied in a larger scale as well! 😊
This was great! I love seeing this concept visualized. Justin’s article is fantastic and this is a great visualization of it.
YES! A different flavor for each path indeed! I think people miss the point that the different paths should probably involve different challenges.
They used one of Jaquays seminal maps from Counterstrike and noted that there were three loops to the objective. One emphasized close quarters combat, another ranged combat, one was shortest but must deadly. For D&D maybe one is undead but the group with no cleric takes another route. One involves greater ranged shots or whatever, one is more rogueish involves sneaking, disarming traps etc. One may just be a path you shouldnt take against an overpowered foe unless you have some special ability, but the other path is the one used by legions of goblins who move around the big bad to avoid contact too. Any combination works, use your imagination and make them interesting.
I ran this dungeon for my players! My version of it, at least. They had a blast, and ended up using all three entrances over the course of the adventure!
Oh wow!! That’s wonderful!!
Just discovered your channel. I would watch a whole series of these!
Great advice, it's just a few weeks too late for my first dungeon design (though it's an introductory dungeon set in a townhouse so not many options for entrances/loops) and my party's about to enter The Mists so it'll be a while before they get into anything new that I've personally designed, but it's certainly useful information to keep in mind!
This was really eye opening and I will definately be improving my dungeons in the future!
props for getting the name right!
Great video. I really love the idea of drawing out a map like that.
I've been wondering how to Jaquay little 5 Room Dungeons like this. This was so useful, thank you!
This was awesome to watch :D This dungeon was also my entry into PF 1e as a DM. My players loved it back then but this would definitely have made it even better.
Your drawings of skeletons are adorable.
This video just helped me make my games more fun for sure. Thank you!
There is one thing I would add/remove and it is the "exit".
Unless this path is an obstacle to another region (Like the Underground Pass in Oldschool RuneScape) I don't think a dungeon really should have an easy to spot or reach exit. In the case of having a dragon at the end of the dungeon there should be a way or path the dragon could take to get out of the dungeon that the players would have a very hard time to do. Like a crevice upwards big enough for the dragon to fly out of/in from. For the players to use this crevice as an entrance or escape they they would have to have climbing equipment or something of the sort.
I think having a "back door" works well, but like you said, make it really hard for the players to use it or make it very unattractive.
I've run dungeons that had crevasses leading to the underdark. The goblins would use the passage for hunting, but my players didn't have any real motive to go there. I said something like, "Looking at the goods in this chamber and the slope of the passage, you think this leads to the underdark. You're likely to encounter more goblins and probably bigger monsters if you go that way."
Could they have chosen that path? Sure. I just would have started rolling random encounters with minimal loot until they went back (or died).
Very nice Ideas on expanding and working on a map/dungeon! Love it
Thank you for all of the excellent dungeon advice
Thank you, a useful way of looking at dungeon design.
A couple of questions:
How would you give the dragon a way of leaving/entering his lair without messing up encounter sequence, a chimney perhaps?
Could the measures each monster group takes to defend against the opthers add another layer of interest?
Informative and practical; nice video!
Jennell has asked that we use and pronounce the S In "Jaquaysing". But I love that my friend is a verb in the industry.
Yep! I found that out yesterday, I have corrected the title and the description. This video is a year old.
thank you I extremely struggle with level design in my games this really helps lmao
I prefer to Jamiroqaui the dungeon, but its difficult to travel without moving.
great video and thank you so much for the grid paper 🙏
Great video! I wish I could draw like that. I will practice!
Thank you so much!! You can do it!!
Very fun! thanks for the video!
Thank you for watching! And for the kind words!!
In my first ever DnD session, the DM had an optional route to the end of our first dungeon.
It was a steep slope-like tunnel meant as an escape route for the enemies, however I asked if my rogue with a +6 in acrobatics could scale it.
He let me, I rolled a 19 and with my rope I helped my party get up there...
Good concise explanation of concept. However, your modifications to the map will also impact one under-discussed dungeon concept; chain reaction encounters and villain contingency planning. Adding new connections to areas will potentially transmit light/sound of party activity and alert/agro other (now connected) inhabitants of those areas.
Does the dragon occasionally peek out of the smokey crack and get a heads up that her lair has been invaded? How will that change the encounter in her lair?
Can the goblins be alerted to the party by hearing them slay spiders? What are their orders regarding intruders?
Sometimes dungeon spaces are treated almost as pocket dimensions that can have no bearing on any other rooms/encounters no matter what the players do. And, while simple and easy to run, also lack the rich complexity of a more realistic nature of a layered defense and escalating tactics one would find when dealing with an intelligent opponent.
How does the dragon get in and out? Hole in the roof of its chamber to fly through would be my choice but that give you a 5th entrance to consider.
Not sure how I ended up here but I really enjoyed this video, thanks.
High ground. I’m sold
I have a question... How do you hide informations you want your player to find and really discover irl with these maps ? How do you hide narrow passages if you do hide them ?
I mostly use these maps for prep notes, not really for battle maps. I would narrate things theatre of the mind until a fight that needs a grid. That's just my personal style
@mapcrow that's a very stylish prep note if you ask me hahaha. I guess, I would say it's a shame such beautiful visuals can't be shared with the players but I understand. Thanks for the answer
"Brought to you by Old Roads 'zine. If you would like to know more, check the description for a link." I don't see mention of "Old Roads" in this video's description text box.
It’s the e link that says: check out my mapping project here.
Easy mode entrace: Obvious entrance
Medium entrance: Locked door in a graveyard or mausoleum with enemies surrounding entrance, requires knkowledge to find
Hard mode entrance: Fall through a trap door into spider boss, no way to leave dungeon from this room
This is a great idea to think about it!!
Now you're thinking with Dark Souls.
Great video, I am starting to GM and I found it very helpful.
After drawing this map, do you give something to your players? like, the same map but just with the terrain or just describe what they encounter?
Please, excuse my English, it is not my native language.
I really like to give my players an unlabeled map. I'm not worried about emersion and information scarcity, I would rather focus on an approachable game, you know? Cheers!!
@@mapcrow Cool, thank you!
What type of graph paper is this and where can I find it? It looks awesome and I would love to utilize it :)
Also, just found your channel. You've definitely gained a sub! This is amazing :)
Dude this was soooo good
Very insightful, regardless of the medium one might use the technique for.
Mind expanding 🤯
I like the ideas - thx so much!!
Where did you found the music for this video? I absolutely love it!
DM puts multiple roads/possibilities for the party to choose and explore.
*The party splits*
Interesting. Some of the best Metroidvania video games employed these principles as well.
Now maybe this is an entirely different subject, but how do you present this to your players? Do you re sketch it without the details? Do you cover it up and reveal as they go? Do you just plop this down and say go? I'm really curious!
Super useful, thank you!
try doing it the other way around. You know. Just roam a blank map and trace the route then build around it making sure everywhere you looked at will be something to put an eye on.
There are many wonderful systems for doing just that.
Hi Kyle,
How do you use a map like this in your game? Is it a reference only for yourself, do you provide it with undiscovered rooms hidden with something like post-its, or do you how the whole map and trust your players to separate the meta-knowledge from their play? I've found a plethora of map-making videos, but almost nothing on how some folks actually use it in play.
My only experience using maps has been the post-it method but I'm curious about other opinions.
Algorithm is kicking in, see you at 7k subs soon.
*Wow more like 10k soon at this rate.
I love The Alexandrian.
Where can I find this type of graph paper?
Well, I made it myself. Each diamond is 1cm by 2cm
Awesome video! Where do you get that paper (or what brand is it)? I can only find the stuff with vertical lines on it.
I made it! I added the link to where you can download it to the description!
But how do you Jamiroquai dungeon?
Does anyone know how to get the background grid?
How do you inform the players of the extra entrances? I expect my players would just go in the first entrance they see.
“You stand in front of a vine swaddled cave. A crumbling staircase climbs the mountain side to your right. A bat struggles to free itself from a spider web to the right. What do you do?”
@@mapcrow thanks! That example is very helpful.
That's one potential way of doing it. When I was playing Basic D&D in the 90s, my DM just told us that was a thing that's possible. Up to that point, I had never considered it, and so as a player it became a thing I learned to look for before going in through the front door.
What kind of paper are you using to make that map? It's so cool and I've been looking everywhere for it!
So good!