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Ben Heck’s 16-Bit Console Wars!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2015
- Ben and Max are arguing over which system is better, the Super Nintendo or the Sega Genesis. In this episode Ben will take both consoles apart and then look at the main processor, the co-processors, the audio, the video and see how much ram is in each console. Ben will then hook the consoles up to an oscilloscope and compare the read/write speeds of their busses. There can be only one!
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The Snes had technically superior audio capabilities, but that doesn't stop the Streets of Rage series from having the finest 16-bit music ever produced. Yuzo Koshiro really knew how to get the most out of that Yamaha chip.
Lots of SNES games had great soundtracks, but nothing that stood out to me like Yuzo's score for Streets or Shinobi, or Drossin with Comix Zone, or Baker's work for Toejam and Earl.
I grew up with the genesis in the 90s and still play it to this day such a fun console. No load times no ads no bs just you and the game.
Shockwave No load times... Unless you got Sega CD! :)
I totally wanted one as a kid, though. Wouldn't mind having one now, for that matter.
Tetsujin Same here too bad its kinda hard to come by I have the model 2 genesis and would like to have the model 2 sega cd. I do also have a sega dreamcast that still works great and have a good collection of games for it also most of my genesis games still have the original boxes.
Shockwave I've hardly played anything on Genesis. I'd kind of like to pick one up sometime, though. I've got Famicom and NES (both RGB-modded... so pretty!), Super Famicom, and PC Engine, but I still haven't delved into the Genesis experience. People always talk say its sound wasn't as good as the SNES but to me it's like the last great "chiptune" system.
Tetsujin you should totally try the Genesis/Mega Drive and see for yourself if you like it. Its library is similar in style to the PC Engine in a lot
of ways, in my opinion. As for its sound, its bad reputation comes from
many western-developed games in which sound clearly wasn't a priority.
The system has many games that made much better use of its sound. Its
FM synth was common in the arcades for a while and could sound great
when used right. One advantage it had in sound over the SNES was its
clarity in many cases. SNES often has a muffled sound due to extra
filtering. One nice thing about Genesis is that it outputs RGB without mods.
ravagingwolverine I'd certainly like to pick up a Genesis but it's not a good time at present, sadly. One of these days I will. I still haven't built up my PC Engine library much, either.
As for the RGB thing, SNES can do that, too. :) And most consoles can do at least S-video pretty easily. NES/Famicom is just one of those exceptions, it can't do anything better than composite without some pretty drastic modification. The PPU just doesn't produce anything else.
Ben Heck confirms blast processing
...confirms what now, crap processing? oh no, it's bull shit advertising at it's best, for weak minded numbskulls that walk and drive around with their mouths open.
@@mOczakowski iz joke
Still love my Megadrive more than my Super Nintendo, I grew up playing the MD so I'm way more attached to it in a nostalgic sense, it holds a very special place in my heart.
"He's gonna take you back to the past, to mod some shitty consoles that suck ass. He rather have a terabyte take a diarrhea dump in his ear."
midnight80090 so wait... the thing that made your trolling possible is shitty
yo ianrhodes I was doing a poor as stated above parody of the AVGN theme not trolling :)
Sorry I guess I thought you thought that this was shitty
I'm sorry and I love your face
yo ianrhodes Haha well thanks mate!
15:29 The only parts of the Super NES that run at 1.8 MHz (same speed as the NES) are the controller ports. PPU I/O ports are 3.6 MHz, RAM is 2.7 MHz, and ROM can be 2.7 MHz or 3.6 MHz based on the memory control register.
14:34 "The SNES lived under the bridge and ate people, but it wanted to learn the true meaning of Christmas." I almost fired my coffee at my screen when Ben randomly let off that line xD
The limited power of the SNES really makes you wonder if the SNES CD addon from Sony (which would become the PlayStation to haunt Nintendo to this day) would've had enough processing power to actually take advantage of the much larger size of CDs. Ironically, the Genesis ran into the same problem, only the other way around. It had the processing power but lacked the graphical and audio capabilities to actually take advantage of CDs.
In the end both consoles were great. Both had an amazing lineup of games and plenty of exclusives to keep us entertained for years. And to be honest, the Genesis wasn't really made to compete with the SNES, but with the NES. Remember, the Genesis came out in 1988, the SNES in 1990.
So... is it possible to mix the two up and frankenstein up a SNEnesis ?
This needs to happen.
I love Super Nintendo Chalmers
I care more about "which games are more fun" than "which system is technically superior"
+vince94 (haxxor199x) Both are equally obsolete because 100 megahertz is the minimum unit that matters at all in modern Risc architecture .
Both are very fun timeless consoles, collect for them both.
I can't imagine a 16-bit era without Alien Soldier or Mega Man X
Super Metroid or Shinobi 3
NInja Warriors or Streets of Rage 2
Final Fantasy VI or Shining Force (1 or 2)
R-Type 3 or Thunder Force IV
Contra 3 or Gunstar Heroes
the list goes on and on...
I'm confused by your comment. 3rd parties are not as much concerned with technical superiority as they are with the consoles install base size and sales rate. Hence why the DS, 3DS and Ps2 received more support despite being technically inferior to their direct competitors.
Also you somewhat contradicted yourself by lumping the GC in there, the GC was superior to the Ps2 yet received less games, (though it still received wayy more than the 64 and Wii U), so it's ridiculous to compare the GC to those two.
Also our comments are regarding the 16-bit systems not the 6th gen systems?
That was by far the best and most interesting comparison I have ever seen. AWESOME!!!!
5:21 WOW! I'ts cool that you recognize the MSX systems.
WOW! You around here! Love ur channel!
Well, time to list and nitpick and be annoying.
First, the power base converter don't just "make the cartridge fit", but it not only adapts the pinouts to work, but it also does some memory mapping wizardry to fool the SMS game into thinking the sega genesis memory map is the SMS memory map, but nothing major and the actual SMS work is indeed done by the genesis.
Secondly, the snes indeed was planned at some point to run the NES games, but the main obstacle was the radically different audio chip, that simply could not emulate the NES audio.
Now on the matter of the graphics data, both consoles work with 16 color, 8x8 graphic "bitmaps" called tiles that are assembled like a jigsaw puzzle onscreen, and both had the same exact size of tiles, memory wise. The higher variety of colors snes offered came from the wider selection of palettes to use on the tiles. The genesis offered you 4 sets of 16 colors, while the snes offered 16 sets. also those sets on the genesis were composed of 512 possible colors, while snes offered 32768 colors to choose from.
Now to add one more interesting detail to the already big wall of text, the snes required much cheaper ROM chips because you could use slow, 8bit 2.68 or 3.58 Mhz ROM chips (yes, the devs could potentially sabotage the system even more by using cheaper 2.68 Mhz roms) on the system, which allowed most snes games to actually have more data than the genesis ones, that required a blazing fast 7.6 Mhz ROM with 16bit bus, thus why games with more details and tile variety etc like RPGs were better on the snes, while games that required a CPU that was not constantly in pain ran better on the genesis.
And well, in terms of which is better is entirely dependent on your taste for games and your mood, as not only the developers were wildly different, as the systems enforced wildly different games with their limitations, and the developers of that time in general tried their best to deliver awesome games, and did what they could do.
Felix breaks up the fights, knows Linux well and manages all the important stuff in the lab (such as girl scout cookies)... I'm beginning to think he is the invisible hand guiding the show to success!!
I'm registering life long members of the #FFC (Felix fan club) starting now!
Jim Stiernberg I wonder if he's also cutting the videos. Since Alison left they look much more awesome and the notes in the text boxes have useful information instead of just...things.
Haha!! That's true, I find myself actually pausing the video to read the notes carefully now
The assessment about the Power Base Converter is almost correct. It's mostly used for adapting the Mega Drive cartridge port to the Master System cartridge. But it also has some passive circuitry, I cant recall what exactly it does, but one of it's primary functions was to suspend the 68k (And to that extend the YM 2612 synth chip) and put the Z80 (and the Texas Instruments PSG) in charge of the system.
Great episode, love this kind of stuff. Should do more console comparisons.
Decades later, sad Genesis fans still seeking some sort of redemption for a chapter of history that's already been written.
+Andrew Vrba Read this paragraph. The SNES chip may be more capable, but its the one that sounds like shit. How? The reason revolves around how it uses its audio ram. The genesis, with its 8k audio ram, is fine. It actually could probably do fine with 6k due to the synthesizer making very effective use of its audio ram.. However, the SNES, having a non synthesized audio chip, is constantly filling the audio ram and making a terrible use of it. 64k may sound like enough, but 64k audio ram is not enough for the SNES. That's why it sounds muddy and has no bass. Also not to mention, the genesis can swap its memory faster due to its 7 MHZ cpu. I will admit, if the SNES did not have its memory bottleneck and slow CPU, it would be better than the genesis. But the factor is Nintendo was really stupid when they designed the SNES, and even the N64 (Controlled entirely by the GPU), and SEGA's engineering division was superior in many ways. If they had built a system meant to kick the SNES out of the market, they could have done so. But you have to remember that the Genesis was meant to compete with the NES. I will say that the Genesis has terrible graphical capabilities compared to the SNES. This states teh differance between the two systems. Nintendo had a terrible engineering team, and thats the reason the Genesis survived. Engineer from Nintendo: "Lets build a system to beat the other system and make sure it has severe bottleneck because we wanted to do a cheap shitty job at building a system capable of beating our competition" Nintendo CEO: "That sounds like a great idea!". 2 years earlier: Sega engineers building the genesis: "Lets build a system that has a shitty video processor but great CPU and nice audio with no bottleneck" Sega CEO:"Cool lets do this!" Sega of Japan:"Today at Sega of Japan, we are going to be little shits and shoot our own company in the foot by declining every good idea from our awesome team in america" -(Just a joke but its true XD).
DejaVoodooDoll But if you needed to buy a peripheral that cost as much as a console, to get better audio, does that really count as "winning"?
+Phoenix Gaming God you Sega fanboys are annoying
What bugs me is that this is all known information. Anybody who's capable of googling spec sheets can do a side by side comparison. Base console, the SNES trumped virtually everything except for processing speed. This was Sega's only claim, so my God, Blast Processing was plastered every where! Never mind that audio was generally better on the SNES. Never mind that the color palette was larger and brighter than the SNES. Never mind that rotation and scaling could be handled in Mode 7 with the SNES while the Genesis needed it's 32X and CD Attachments.
TheChikyChiky considering Nintendo had an extra two years to develop the hardware, it's strange that they even let Sega have that advantage. And it's not a small thing either as it allowed Genesis games to have more objects on screen without slowing down which is a big plus for some genres such as shooters. There are a number of examples of SNES games with less going on in general or inexplicable slowdown. It's an advantage Sega probably shouldn't have had at all.
TheChikyChiky This is actually not true. The Genesis has other advantages over the SNES that were either not mentioned in the video or were only briefly mentioned here. Did you notice the part where he said each pixel on the Genesis carries less data because of the lower color count? There's an upside for Sega on that: Its games run at a higher resolution. Basically, Genesis games run at a higher resolution than SNES games.
Another difference not explained in the video are sound channels. The Genesis uses 10 sound channels while the SNES uses 8. Finally, he didn't compare the clockspeed on the co-processors. The Genesis' co-processor runs at a faster MHZ than the SNES' main processor. So there's a lot more to it than just a faster CPU.
+Gonçalo Tordo you just blow my mind
+TAMPUZ Thank you :)
+Gonçalo Tordo i didn't even know sega genesis/megadrive had 10 sound channels i thought the snes had more sound channels but when i saw your comment.. BOOM!
Motorola 68K possibly the most epic CPU ever. I think they stopped making it in 2012.
This was infinite times more clearer and also enjoyable then the infinite amount of opinion videos out there :)
Ben! If possible, do a Playstation 2 vs Original Xbox detailed benchmark and testing. It was the fanboy fight of the 2000s! I'd love to see that, specially knowing that the PS2 was waaaaay ahead of it's time.
What about the GameCube? Can't it join the benchmarking party?! :P
jorenmartijn I don't think the GameCube has that much of horsepower compared to the PS2 and Xbox
Well, benchmarking those systems would not do justice because the plot is quite thicker.
The PS2 is basically a system with a very powerful CPU but a very basic GPU with a very fast but small video memory (4MB at blazing fast 48GB/s that is pretty much twice the speed of the PS3 video memory (!)).
Now on other hand, both cube and Xbox have a weaker CPU, but most of the 3D workload is made by the more advanced GPU that did for example hardware T&L and mixed the audio on separate DSPs, instead of using the CPU like the PS2 did.
Also cube/Xbox supported texture compression, that allowed em to do more with their memory spaces, and primitive pixel shaders, that allowed em to do certain special effects on screen like bump mapping, screen deformations, realtime shadows...
This last part the PS2 CPU can actually pull off, but you needed to sacrifice the CPU time the game would use.
Mike Fox Screw the new consoles go old school or go home.
Mike Fox Would be more fair and accurate to compare the PS2 to the DCast and Xbox to GC. Xbox would win in any case though.
You can't really claim SNES winner with 64KB of audio RAM vs 8KB of audio RAM since these are two completely different audio subsystems. The SNES uses its audio RAM to store samples while the Genesis uses its mis-named audio RAM to store the Z80 program which runs the audio subsystem. Samples on the Genesis are actually read directly from the cartridge ROM by the Z80. Therefore the Genesis didn't need a large amount of RAM. The Neo Geo only had 2KB of audio RAM and we all remember how shitty the audio was on Neo Geo right?
+db-elec I'm biased as hell, but you watch any comparison video on TH-cam and they always favor the SNES. It was technologically a superior console. You can try and justify the opposite to the best of you're abilities, but at the end of the day it was better.
Please stop flooding my inbox with your ridiculous comments. You're obviously butthurt about my opinions regarding the Genesis, but frankly I don't care. Take it elsewhere.
You do seem pretty butthurt, and that's why you're firing back at all of his comments. Take your long winded rants somewhere else. Nobody is going to read all these ridiculous paragraph long comments you keeps posting.
Sounds more to me like he's irritated than offended. I would be too if my inbox was pummeled with several unnecessarily long responses to a comment.
***** LOL, I think you got him all fired up, and now he's trying to be subtle about it.
God, this is so interesting! Great episode, Ben, keep it up!
I can't see the bad graphics of MK on the genesis behind all the blood on screen the SNES doesn't have.
***** MK2 was much better on the SNES. Most of the sound was missing on the Genesis. :P Plus the music was on the wrong levels.
But they still did a better job than Probe. I would have liked to see how an MK2 port on the Genesis would have come out on Sculptured's watch - I bet it would have been a lot better, and would have rivalled the SNES port.
*nod*. But here we have an apples-to-apples comparison, as opposed to with the MK2 ports when you could blame the inferior Genesis port on the developer.
32X too. Better than the Genesis port? Sure. But why was it STILL worse in almost every way than the SNES?
***** I love how it took suck a big add on for Sega to be on par or still fall short of the SNES. The prime example is Doom, where the SNES version beat the 32X version by far (While the original PC version stomped all ports)
Lol such an awesome video!
lololololo Console wars
Megadrive and SNES Audio is completely different, neither is actually "Better", although I really prefer the Megadrive soundchip, especially for the more upbeat electronic/rock based music. And come on, no one can deny this has one of the best soundtracks to any game ever: th-cam.com/video/kfCw4tx5AME/w-d-xo.html
Fully agreed, I prefer the sound chip of the Genesis also, I adore the Musha/Thunder Force IV/Gunstar/Comix Zone/Shinobi esque metal and rock sound. It delivers fantastic bass and tremble. It's loud, clear, crisp, unique, and awesome.
I do also really appreciate the orchestral contrast of the Snes chip too however. Games like Final Fantasy VI, Super M, DKC, Contra 3 truly sound fantastic too, I hate how folks make these ignorant blanket statements though.
While it's true that the Snes chip is "newer" than the Gen chip, there is no way it's sound is "objectively" better than the Gen, that simply just isn't the case because both chips seem better at different musical styles. There's *always* a gray area, nothing in life is ever so black and white.
Guys, you're totally forgetting about the Turbografx 16! Okay, that was a console with an 8 bit CPU but it had 2 16 bit graphics processors! It could show even more colours on-screen than the Super Nintendo and the Sega Genesis combined! Not to mention, it was the most powerful 8 bit CPU of all time! It had even more arcade-close ports than the Genesis, and it was much faster than the Super Nintendo too! 7.1 MHz, almost as fast as the Genesis!
And the sound was also amazing, it used wavetable synthesis (programmable waveforms) instead of FM synthesis from the Genesis or sampled sounds from the Super Nintendo, so it could produce cleaner sounds than the Genesis and the sounds were much less muffled than the SNES!
The Turbografx 16 was an amazing system that deserves a lot more attention than it gets, it's a true hidden gem forgotten by time, and also a technological wonder considering that it is 1987 hardware that stands up really well against the 1988 Mega Drive and 1990 Super Famicom!
Well, I don't know much about the Turbo Grafx, but what do you think are the best games on the system, since that's what matters most.
There are loads of great shmups on the system, but the stand-out ones that come to my mind are Hudson's Soldier series, which consists of Super Star Soldier, Final Soldier, Soldier Blade and Star Parodier (CD), there's also Blazing Lazers which was a great launch title, Air Zonk, Aero Blasters, 1943 KAI, Cotton Fantastic Night Dreams (CD) the absolute classics Gate of Thunder (CD) and Lords of Thunder (CD) and the system's holy grail Magical Chase, as well as many others that I would name if I had the whole day to keep on naming...
There are also some pretty cool action platformers on the system such as the Bonk series, Bonk's Adventure, Bonk's Revenge and Bonk 3, they take some getting used to but once it clicks with you they're a blast, then there's New Adventure Island, one of the best in the series, Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu, which is probably the best game based on a celebrity, Dragon's Curse is like a Metroidvania with RPG-esque elements before Super Metroid was even a thing, Ninja Spirit is great, Legendary Axe 2 is a lot of fun, Kaze Kiri Ninja Action (CD) has amazing graphics that rival GBA games, Shubibinman 3 (CD) is a great (if super-easy) tech-demo, but the one true game that will get anyone hooked on the TurboGrafx-16 (unless they have a really messed up taste) is Castlevania Dracula X Rondo of Blood (CD), which I consider to be the absolute best game in the series bar none...
And that's because I haven't even talked about the top-down action games, such as Bloody Wolf which is like Contra but from a top-down view, Last Alert (CD) is a spiritual successor to Bloody Wolf with amazingly bad voice acting, Cratermaze is a fun top-down maze game with a super-catchy soundtrack where you collect things and bury monsters to kill them, Valkyrie no Densetsu is Namco's best game on the system, Ys Books 1 and 2 (CD) is the quintessential Action RPG on the system, Ys IV, which was fan-translated, takes everything that Ys 1+2 did right and does it even better with amazing graphics and music, Neutopia 1 and 2 are the system's response to the Legend of Zelda, but they're flip-screen kinda like Zelda 1 (they came out before A Link to the Past) but hey, if you ever wanted a 16 bit version of Zelda 1 these are the games for you! Dungeon Explorer is the system's response to Gauntlet, it supports 5 player action, the sequel on CD is even better, but the top-down action game you must play on TurboGrafx-16 is Bomberman '94! It's the definitive Bomberman game on the system, it's pretty much the same game as Mega Bomberman on the Genesis, only better in every single way, there's also Bomberman '93 which is pretty good too, with great music to boot, but '94 is better...
A few other honourable mentions that I can't fit into the aforementioned genres are Devil's Crush which is probably the best pinball video game ever, Special Criminal Investigation is a good racing game, a great version of Street Fighter II, a version of After Burner II which far surpasses the Genesis version, Ys 3 (CD) is my favourite Ys game, but it's a departure from the rest of the series for being a platforming RPG, Popful Mail (CD) is an even better platforming RPG but it's Japan-only so it's a little hard to progress, Double Dragon II (CD) is maybe the best version of the game, Cosmic Fantasy II (CD) is one of the few traditional RPGs for the system that was actually translated back in the day, Mad Stalker (CD) is a good sidescrolling beat'em up with mechs, Tengai Makyou Kabuki Ittoryoudan (CD) is the other best fighting game on the system, Asuka 120% Maxima Burning Fest (CD) is the 'other' other best fighting game on the system, and the Xanadu games (CD) are Japan-only action RPGs that really show off the system's graphics and sound capabilities, the 2nd game is currently being fan-translated, the closest thing you can get to them in English is Ys IV, so if you like that then look forward to that translation because Xanadu 2 has even better graphics and music!
Superb acting skills! I LOVE The Ben Heck Show! :D ^^;
SNES games also run at a lower resolution 256x224 vs 320x224 on the Genesis.
Caleb Claxton actually no it doesn't . Running a menu at 512x448 is not the same as running in game at 256x224. Fact is the Genesis ran most games at 320x224 and the snes ran all of its games at 256x224.
To add, if you boot Genesis and Snes games on emulators you can tangibly and very easily see the difference in screen resolution.
In their native aspect ratios, you can see on your monitor that the Snes window is a cropped square, while the Genesis window is rectangular, allowing a wider horizontal field of vision in it's games.
Games like Revenge of Shinobi and Thunder Force IV, compared to sayy Mega Man X and Contra 3 very easily display the difference in field of view (aka screen resolution).
Caleb Claxton Snes cpu couldn't push as many sprites as the Genesis. That's why even the legend of Zelda had slowdown. Sports games and Shumps are especially better on Genesis than Snes. For better or for worse the two systems are equal. Where one is great the other isn't and vice versa.
Chris W it's irritating how many people just don't see that. One big reason I think is because "brighter and more vibrant" colors in SMW is easier to notice than "how many sprites are on screen" in SOR2 and Gunstar Heroes.
But still, the ignorance regarding the technical prowess of both consoles is insane.
So many misconceptions out there and all are almost blindly in favor of the Snes.
really wish you people would refer to the genesis by its true name, the megadrive, it was only called the genesis in america be a product there with the name megadrive already existed
+craig thomas I didn't know there was a world outside of America.
+craig thomas Genesis just sounds better.
you're not going to throw a fit they're not saying "Super Famicom"?
+Rockman IXA genesis have the 8-bit audio
It's not like they renamed it for Europe; the console was named the Mega Drive, released in Japan as such (1988), renamed Sega Genesis for North America (1989), and released in South Korea, Europe, and Oceania, and Zealandia as, of course, Mega Drive (1990).
I like how Ben humorously points out how esoteric the information he talks about can be. Thanks for trying to make a connection between the layman and the expert!
The intro finally perfectly embodies The Ben Heck Show.
Well done.
Super Metroid is a counter-example to your deduction that the SNES could only be used to play slow-moving/slow-paced games.
I don't know if, and what kind of, programming tricks they needed to invent to make it work, but the console was clearly capable.
WarpRulez A separate chip on the cartridge to make up for the crap CPU. Much in the same way Sega made a CD addon for better audio plus hardware scaling and rotation.
WarpRulez Super Metroid was certainly not as fast as sonic. which is a pointless argument, because going fast never really added to the game and most of the game-play of Sonic was kind of boring compared to a lot of SNES titles.
spiderobert
"Fast" in this context shouldn't be a measure of how many pixels per frame the background moves. That's trivial, and doesn't measure any kind of hardware prowess. Rather, it should be a measure of how much stuff is moving on the screen at the same time. In other words, how fast the console is at rendering moving stuff.
WarpRulez but that's rendered on the graphics chip and is stored in the graphics chip memory, which they already said is superior
WarpRulez The difference is that Super Metroid had supplementary hardware inside its cartridge. The Genesis, by itself, is better for fast-paced games. There is literally no arguing that, as that's exactly what this video showed.
Super Metroid was the exception that proves the rule.
I always called the Snes either Super NES, Super Nintendo or S NES (s as it's own word), but never snes. That just sounds wierd.
akawhut Ess en ee ess ftw.
akawhut In France we called it Super NES or Super Nintendo
+akawhut people who Don't like nintendo call it sness , they're mad cause SNES kicks sguh's ass that's what I call a Sega Genesis (A sguh)
I love the new intro, man. The "Regrettable Acting" bit made me laugh out loud the first time.
nice timing with the bill murry ghostbusters quote. I dunno who else caught it. channel is awesome, even thou you officially killed my childhood belief that snes/genesis/n64 etc worked on magic. I subbed.
Anyone know how to make snes grey again. I hot used one it is extremely yellow.
Ramses Garcia Retro Bright. Look it up.
There isn't much you can do. The problem with older hardware like that, is in the plastic itself. To conform to fire safety standards, a flame retardant chemical was added to the plastic in consoles (among other hardware). Over time, as the plastic is exposed to UV light and/or heat, that flame retardant chemical makes the plastic have a yellowish color to it. You may notice that if you have an older cartridge with stickers on it, you'll find that the plastic underneath looks brand new. The same would apply if you looked at the plastic inside the console (or cartridges, etc.). You're better off leaving it as-is. If you try to use say, a general purpose cleaner on it, or a Magic Eraser or whatever else, you'll do more damage to the plastic than it's worth. Your best bet is to try and reduce exposure to light or heat sources.
Hope this helps!
***** Retr0Brite is just a recipe that uses the hair developer you speak of, it's not an actual product you can buy anywhere.
***** that's just someone selling premixed ingredients based on the recipe, not an actual licensed product. I don't even know if it's legal to sell it on ebay due to the chemicals.
My mum just calls both the Genesis and SNES "Nintendo"
Slot1Gamer she should at least call the Genesis "Sega" instead of both "Nintendo"...
this is a mistake most moms do.
Slot1Gamer My mum called the cartridges tapes
Rex Holes You put the freakin' tape in wrong.
Slot1Gamer My mum called every system "game"....even the computer was just "game"
Mum: "Stop playing game!"
Me: "It's called an Xbox!"
Slot1Gamer that's because for moms, the word "Nintendo" means video game console.
There is this strong feeling that everything in most genesis games run faster without struggling, there are more things happening on screen while backgrounds might include multiple layers and this contributes to the action being more intense. The snes, no denying how much I like it too, feels like it is more slugish despite more colorful. I always had this perception even 10 years ago when I was still unaware of those technichalities.
Ben Heck is the man!!! Can't wait for the next episode
It's actually the opposite: Genesis games run in HIGHER resolution than SNES (320x224 vs 256x224) so it effectively has less VRAM to store the graphics of an individual screen.
retrospiel He does his "research" using Wikipedia.
*Cough cough* mode 7 *Cough cough*
Michael Obed Mode 7 is called so because it is one of 8 modes of the main SNES graphics chip. It is available without any additional hardware on cartridge.
As an example, f-zero made extensive use of mode 7 without any additional hardware on the cartridge.
Michael Obed cough cough moron cough cough.
SMAAAASHTV
cough cough butthurt cough cough.
The Great Agitator cough cough you're a dumbass, mode 7 was all done with system hardware cough cough
bloopers are awesome :D
Been watching your show for years but consider me a subscriber now. Man I miss my old Sega Genesis (stolen). Great video.
I find it mildly annoying when people say "sness" or "snez ". I always said, "Super NES" or "Super Nintendo" (sometimes ess en ee ess).
t0f0b0 I sometimes even still say just "Super"
Yeah Ben is weird. Who says "snes" phonetically? Everyone's says Super Nintendo or often just Super, given the right context of course.
Outside of him and ReviewTechUSA, I've never heard "SNES" pronounced phonetically. (Ironically, I think I lived in the same general area as ReviewTechUSA back in the SNES era.)
Garth Palmer I say SNES
t0f0b0 I wouldn't say I find it annoying though perhaps a bit odd. I referred to Nintendo's first system as the N.E.S. (en ee ess) , so it only seemed natural to call the "Super" version the Super N.E.S. I honestly don't see why it bothers people. We all know what system is being referred to. :P
My pet peeve has always been both the 'S-N-E-S' _and_ 'Snes' pronunciations, as well as 'Super Nintendo'. The official abbreviation is *Super NES*.
Yeah but do you pronounce it “ness” or “nez”?
It's just to cut down on syllables you know. Not everyone wants to say a mouthful. (Hell I'd say "SFC" if I could get away with it.)
@@iwanttocomplain Nes, not Nez. S only becomes like a Z when it's pluralizing or sometimes if in the middle of a word. That includes with a silent E after it. Even tho...I pronounce _grease_ as "grees" despite the "greez" pronunciation making more "sense".
@@Schwarzorn Yes but SNES has a Z sound on it’s final letter because otherwise you sound like an idiot.
Nobody pronounced it like that in the 90’s.
I can think of lots of words ending in two s’s but not many with only one.
I only came up with bus and bogus.
@@hitkid2456 Sure... The main one used in North America only cuts five syllables down to four. And it's used in writing where syllable count is irrelevant.
I love your videos great stuff!
I like ben hack video, always remind me to do something and learn more! Thanks ben hack.
SNES is way better never mind any specs because it's the games and controller that kicked so much ass
I was an NES kid and we had a Genesis later on and would rent the SNES occasionally, but yeah, in general I prefer the SNES for the games. Tech specs are more relevant in PCs and computational work. Having good games are more relevant for gaming consoles. For example, I much prefer the SNES over the N64 overall, and even the NES over the SNES.
For a little perspective, the Motorola 68000 processor of the Genesis is the same processor in 20 year old TI-89 calculator.
Genesis: has higher resolution, with an actual mode of 320x480 which you can use. Unlike the SNES's theorical 256x448 mode that cannot be used because the processor can't handle it.
The Genesis can actually be coded for because it is basically a stripped down A500. The SNES is as hard to code as it is to you to kill the kraken.
The Genesis can display more than 64 colors at screen at once? have you ever read of horizontal interrupts? Sonic 1's water wants to talk to you, so do all the many games that do actually surpass the limit. th-cam.com/video/7_9S7tgeeIo/w-d-xo.html this video is kind of tame, you could easily go to Hydrocity in sonic 3 and admire all the colors thanks to the interrupt tricks.
Also... th-cam.com/video/-MsFrLEK4OY/w-d-xo.html 3D on stock hardware at a respectable speed.
th-cam.com/video/Wr9oWMDWO9E/w-d-xo.html And versions of Wolf3D that would make any SNES owner rage.
Also... Samples are better than Frequency Modulation? Really? Most SNES games ripped low quality yamaha or roland samples to begin with so what in the hell?.
This was a complete biased "fight" lad.
Zana GB Actually, SNES has Mode 5 that allows 512x448 (512x480) pseudo hi-res, that is about the same and used as often as Genesis 320x480, i.e. very rarely. That's not because of the CPU power, though, it is not really related, there are many other inconveniences that make it not very usable on both platforms. And SNES is actually not that hard to code for, both CPUs it has are expanded deriatives of 6502, which is arguably the simplest CPU ever. It just happens to have way more HW than Genesis, so it takes more time to learn.
SNKega Why, both Master System and TG16/PCE were fine with having a single 16 color BG layer, so 16+4 it isn't totally unusable, as seen in RPM Racing, for example. Still, I personally consider interlace modes pretty useless both on Genesis and SNES, because they implying many limitations while only giving back some questionable picture clarity (as it flickers). Genesis hi-res was also used in very few games, I can recall only one. The point is, these modes aren't important feature, shouldn't be used as serious pro/con in system's comparison. The normal modes difference, 320 vs. 256, is a much stronger argument.
Zana GB Neither SNES nor Genesis can have extra ('chip-assisted') video modes. As for programming complexity, well, I programmed for both systems a lot, and to me it didn't seem nearly as difficult as you're describing. 'Not easy' sure, as with any old system, but nothing exceptionally difficult. Both systems has the same number of built-in co-processors (one). You also have to wait access times and deal with async running components on Genesis all the time (Z80, YM2612), and actually it is a little worse there, but still, not much of problem. And why do you think 'you're going to need expansion hardware'? Not that many SNES games have it (~100 of ~2000 releases). Even if a game uses it, there is just two async slave components (APU and the extra chip) to deal with, and it is certainly much less of a problem than dealing with many other limitations SNES have (like sprite system, Genesis totally wins in this regard).
shiru8bit 1. The double height video mode on the SNES is unusable, no game has really used it as far as my knowledge goes.
2. Regarding programming for both systems. on the Genesis you only need to code two programs, a Z80 sound driver that hogs the SN76489 and YM2612, and the main program on the 68K, only dealing with the VDP and the IO. the SNES? you only have a real main processor, who has to mediate between the two chips that compose the actual SNES APU, it's own Graphics Unit, and any and all of the expansion chips that are on the cartridge slot, all going asyncronously, which is not a problem on the MD because you got a CPU dedicated enterely to the sound driver.
Also, if we are going with your videos as a reference, you are using high level languages. Of course it is easy, at the cost of a whole bunch of speed, because who the hell needs fast code on a glorified Apple II?
Also let us not mention the snes and it's inners full of crippled buses that are essentially worth for nothing.
but of course, if we are going to talk about shoving some C code into a processor, sure the SNES may be slightly easier. but noone should program in C to begin with.
Zana GB SNES APU is a totally real CPU (6502 deriative) dedicated entirely to the sound driver. Unlike Genesis, it is a entirely separate subsystem, with own RAM/ROM, essentially a black box. On Genesis things much worse, as the 'sound' hardware is there to provide backwards compatibility with SMS, thus it is integral part of the whole system, sharing the ROM bus. Z80 may get stopped by the bus arbiter at any time, providing priority access time for 68K, so the sound driver gets affected by the other system all the time, and this is well noticeable as low quality of sampled audio playback (typically Z80 wants to read a sample during video DMA in VBlank, and gets stopped by the whole VBlank period).
Old consoles aren't modern PC. There is no standard C libs, or any libs at all, or any ready-to-use tools. To be able to use a high level language you need to learn the HW very well first, and write a few thousands lines of assembly code just to get it working, along with most of dev tools.
I like how you speak in a language that I can understand. I appreciate that :) Great video.
Good lord that laughing at the end :-D truly regrettable acting :-D nice comparison.
snes was better. nuff said. that's the definitive answer.
Explain?
Imo, it was the better console of the two.
"the definitive answer" =/= "imo"
Chris Waters Why was it the better console? Explain, unless your a zombie fanboy.
+The Trust well my opinion was that it had better games then genesis, but that's just my opinion. I'm not a fanboy.
Ben is soooooo wrong. Its S-NES
Moogle Midgar, Snez in the UK.
love the intro haven't watched yet but OMG yess im excited for this video.
How did you get into the SNES? They have a security socket on the screws that need a specific head to unscrew them. Did you just pry it apart, make your own tool, or purchase a tool?
The reason I'm asking is because I'm looking for a good security bit for the SNES and the one that I bought did not work. It was junk. So I'd like to buy one that's reliable.
Thanks in advance if you respond!
Also comparison of the FX chip in carts and the SVP for Genesis? Love your vids!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the longer the life cycle of older consoles yield more power out of games. So using a launch game maybe wasn't the best choose?
Excellent! Hey Ben Heck can you do a video on the backwards compatibility ? That you talked about in this episode...
Did you show the data for when the Genesis uses both audio chips from the Master System and Genesis for certain games, such as Streets of Rage 2? Yuzo Koshiro and the composers at Technosoft used both the 6 channel FM chip (Genesis) and the 4 Channel PSG chip (Master System) to make the music richer.
Did you include this in the spec? A lot of people omit that, and it really does make a lot of Genesis games sound better.
It's not the size of the hardware, but the flexibility of the software that really counts.
Great video!
Glad I found this one being shared on G+
I've not had a Ben Heck Show video in my sub box in a long time :/
The outtake bits at the end crack me up every time.
Those sketches are killing me! 😂😂😂
Would be interesting to see how fast/intense SNES games like Sparkster and Rendering Ranger read on that thing.
Overall this was good but you could do more episodes to take in more factors like resolution (in practice many multiplatform games had somewhat higher res on MD/GEN), how code took up less space on SNES (?), addons vs cart chips and so on.
This is such a cool channel!
Would love to see an analysis of the PC Engine and Neo Geo consoles to make up the 4th gen.
what is most powerful between Sega 32X CD combo or Sega Saturn always thought with Sega of America making the Genesis 32X could it have saved Sega if that stuck with Genesis/Mega Drive in US/EU instead of having the Saturn??? I am so wanting to find out which one is more powerful out the 2 of them
That laugh at the end, very funny :D :D
what a fantastic channel!
I meant to ask would it be possible to put the genesis cpu processor into a super nintendo?
i looked on the net for a vid like this for a wile. never found it. until now. thank u
Great Video! Blast Processing Lives in our hearts!!
learned so much new stuff today
Where is the PSG on genesis? Did I missed this part?
Snes had more colors but most games run at a lower resolution.
There is an affordable neogeo mvs on alliexpress and there has been some whispers that the system have 5 volts on the sync line which is blowing OSSC's up. Maybe you could look into that system and do a show
would it be possible to take the pros from both systems and make one ultimate system that would play both genesis and snes games?
so Ben if I take my dremal tool and make the cartridge openenig in my Genesis fit master system carts they'll work.
That last little bit made me want to build a 16-bit console out of an ATMEGA.
I like this type of engineering... is that what it is...?, how would one get into repairing or learning about the internal hardware of video game consoles specifically?
There’s one more contender you guys totally missed. Turbo Grafx 16
Question: What settings does Max use on that Canon XHA1???
Wow beautyful information on the sega megadrive!!
I like how Felix is like "hey, do you guys want the neighbors to call the cops on us again?"
Ben, I hope you make the same kind of tests with the PS1 and PS2!
just noticed the setup with the computer behind Heck. Genius how that worked out...no case required.
I don't claim to know anything about this stuff But wouldn't a good control be to choose games that exist on both consoles?.
probably not easy to get... but can you do this with capcom's CP System (motorola 68000-based, incidentally) arcade board from the 90s that ran games like street fighter 2, final fight, ghouls n ghosts, etc.? or other 90s arcade boards for that matter.
I noticed you have the gen model one WITH the HD graphics labeled on the top. So its the best of the many available sound chips available on the genesis.
On the point about comparing their video RAM towards the end, I read somewhere there was something along the lines of a smaller minimum sprite size allowed on the Genesis? Someone please tell me if I'm wrong. It's just that I remember the system had a plethora of horizontal shooters, far more than the SNES, and generally assets like spaceships, enemies and bullets were very tiny and incredibly numerous on screen at once. The only shooter I remember in that style on the SNES was UN Squadron and it had some pretty big player sprites. Also the shooting activity wasn't as hectic as anything on Genesis.
Ben's "At what cost?" argument might hold more water if not for Phantasy Star IV.
Ben! Funny you would mention potential backwards compatibility on the SNES! The game Super Mario All-Stars was, with the exception of audio and visual assets, ported directly from the old NES source of each respective Mario game...it even still has some of the old debug features left in from Mario 3 as a result, inadvertently of course. Guess the similar architecture was something Nintendo was very aware of!
can you show me how to build an Amplifier with the chip TMS320D788E001BRFP Amplifier Chip chip lm3481.
that have the 12V dc amplifier with 6 channels and two of them will have 2 Channel Bass and decoder board inputs.
Given all the crazy addressing modes the SNES supports, it really seems like they were considering backwards-compatibility at some point. In particular, the "LoROM" mode emulates the NES memory map (RAM at 0x0000, and ROM from 0x8000 to 0xFFFF, no matter what bank is selected).
The Ben Heck Show with a sd card and a n64 game chio you can play roms from the internet but these cost over 100 dolar i have a question did we can find a cheaper way to play roms from the internet ??
Didn't the Super FX chip SNES put in a lot of their later games remedy the MHZ issue? I know the Super FX clocks to about 21.4 MHZ by itself but inside the SNES it goes to about 10.7 MHZ?
Marcus McDonald The first version of the Super FX signal processor (called "MARIO" for something like Math Argonaut Rotation Input and Output) ran at 10.7 MHz. Later revisions were called "GSU" (for Graphics Support Unit) and had three modes: 10.7 MHz, 10.7 MHz with double speed multiply, and 21.4 MHz (which requires faster ROM chips and uses more current).
Yeah I forgot there was the Super FX 1 chip (Which was in Star Fox) and Super FX 2 chip (Which was in Doom and Super Mario World 2 and would have been in Star Fox 2 if it hadn't been cancelled)
Can you try to make a more affective version of the Nintendo power glove?.
Felix's cops line made me laugh hysterically.
Actually, I think the Neo Geo was the best 16 bit console of the day, even though it was incredibly expensive and no one had it. But, of the two most common 16 bit consoles, each had its advantages, but I give the upper hand to SNES for only two reasons: (and yes, I pronounce each letter in the title)
(1) The 65816 did require multiple data reads and writes in order to handle 16 bit data, true, but most of its operations took few clock cycles. There's no operation on a 68000 that takes less than 4 clock cycles to complete, just because of how it was designed. Meanwhile, the 65816 could perform several operations in 2 or 3 clock cycles. The 65816, despite its slow clock speed, *was* a faster chip for general operations. It did, however, lack multiply or divide operations which would give the 68000 the advantage there, even though division on the 68000 was incredibly slow.
(2) The Genesis was released in 1988, and it was likely in development for years before hand. The SNES was released in 1990, two years later. Those two years meant more bang for the buck, allowing Nintendo to put more RAM (one of your touted features) and better tech into the SNES. Which gives the SNES an advantage bordering on cheating. You may as well compare the SNES to the Intellivision. I mean, they're both popular 16-bit consoles, even though there's a 10 year gap in production.
So, yeah, it's fun to compare the systems, but without proper contexts, it will always boil down to "SNES came out later, had better technology, and was therefore superior."
But at the same time, despite having inferior technology, the Genesis fought the SNES and held its own. It was two years older (which, in tech terms, is HUGE) but it was still as popular as the SNES. That says a lot.