If you're wondering, the cable arrangement wasn't a windlass-type winch with a takeup reel spooling it on, because then you'd have no way to get the end of the cable back down for the next car. Rather, it was a loop, same as in a roller coaster, car wash, or escalator. Some gravity railroads on their lift portions used a dual track counterweighted system as was used on the inclined planes of the Morris Canal and on the San Francisco cable cars. What was holding up development of locomotive railroads was threefold. For one thing, there were places as shown where locomotives would not be an improvement because of the geography. Second, the technical problem of producing engines compact enough to fit onboard. Finally, people needed to get experience with traction. The whole concept of traction and driven wheels was new; even the bicycle didn't yet exist. For a long time it was not clear that something smooth like a rail could be used not just to reduce friction of passive wheels, but provide enough traction for drive wheels. So at first, the kinds of cogwheel, rack-and-pinion arrangements as used on inclined railways were used unnecessarily on flat ground or gentle slopes where we now know smooth wheels and rails would've worked. Models didn't scale linearly, so experience with full size equipment was needed.
where has this video been all my life? Even people who grow up in the Scranton area don't know how important the area was to the whole country's development. Now they just feel forgotten and discarded.
Northeastern PA helped fuel the industrial revolution and provided many of the raw materials to build our cities, such as Timber, Coal, Blue stone, and Steel. Thanks for the comment David!
Wow ! So happy I came across this video! Our great grandfather started at a young age in the coal mine and then worked on the gravity railroad from Carbondale to Honesdale. I had no idea of the importance of the gravity railroad in the development of industry in our country!
Then there was the Ffestiniog narrow gauge railway in Wales.a 1' 11" gauge line used to transport slate from the slate mines originally horse drawn but later converted to steam traction. Utilising the Fairly patent articulated locos which hauled empty slate wagons up the hill to the numerous slate mines. Once loaded the wagons would be dispatched down to waiting ships in portmadoc ready to be exported. Now a tourist/ heritage railway demonstration gravity slate trains can be seen on gala festivals or the occasional train being slotted in during normal operational days.
Very cool railway. It looks like many of the railroads in our area that were once industrial, now converted for tourism. We will have to make the trip to the UK and check it out, if anyone is interested in finding out more about this former gravity railroad check out www.festrail.co.uk
7:50 Shepherd's Crook. The uphill side cut still exists, but the downhill side embankment was mined away. When the railroad switched to a locomotive track, the center of the curve was punched through with a switchback track, so south of the curve there are three rights-of-way.
Russell, thanks for the information and for watching! We have had a couple of comments providing additional information on the Gravity Railroad and will most likely do a revised version of the video this year.
@@WallyLife I was told there is a photo of him standing next to his engine after some outlaws tried to free a convict upon it. There were bullet marks scattered across the cab. Perhaps it’s already with the Scranton or Carbondale historical society? If it is, my grandmothers cousin Thomas Newton would have given it decades ago
Rockport Massachusetts had a gravity railroad to bring granite from the quarries to the pier, where it was loaded on ships. This was used in buildings up & down the US east coast.
Greg, that is one thing Northeastern PA and Rockport have in common, providing the raw materials to build our cities on the East Coast. Thank you for the comment!
Wow, that was so interesting. I read about it in Jim Shaughnessy's History of the Delaware and Hudson but I didn't exactly understand how it worked till now. I'd been to the Roebling bridge many times ( I live in Sullivan county NY ) before I realized that was where the canal went over the Delaware river
Tommy, one of the places we produce Wally Life is in Lackawaxen on the PA side of the Roebling Bridge. The history in the area is great inspiration for some of our segments. Thank you for your comment!
It became an attraction for people when they found out how much fun it was to ride. It was the first roller coaster and operators used to take people up the mountain to picnic areas and to enjoy the view from the mountain top.
@@WallyLife It's just that you look at ut and try to place it, ya know what I mean? I may be looking at one from Wilsonville trying to locate it in Honesdale meanwhile its under the Lake. Thank you so much for what you do. I love the history lessons...
uuuuhhhh.... 2:38 "in the 19th century those kinds of railroads hadn't been invented yet"... not sure how to tell you this but railroads ruled the 19th century. I understand that he is saying they were not commonplace in the US in the 1820s-30s but to say they had not been invented is a very silly exaggeration. He talks about the coal plants being opened in 1829 at which point the traditional steam locomotive had already been invented and existed in the U.S. for over a decade. The First "railroad" as we think of them today opened in 1830 and while it would take another decade or so for them to spread across North America, its kind of embarrassing for a Historian to say such a thing. (sorry for the dorky rant)
You are correct about the railroad, the Stourbridge Lion begin operating here in 1829. I will go back and listen to him again, it is possible that he specifically meant the "gravity" railroad. I may have to go back to the original footage that was shot to see if the clip is out of context. Thank you for bringing that to our attention! We are planning to update several of the historic stories, so the feedback is very helpful.
If you're wondering, the cable arrangement wasn't a windlass-type winch with a takeup reel spooling it on, because then you'd have no way to get the end of the cable back down for the next car. Rather, it was a loop, same as in a roller coaster, car wash, or escalator. Some gravity railroads on their lift portions used a dual track counterweighted system as was used on the inclined planes of the Morris Canal and on the San Francisco cable cars.
What was holding up development of locomotive railroads was threefold. For one thing, there were places as shown where locomotives would not be an improvement because of the geography. Second, the technical problem of producing engines compact enough to fit onboard. Finally, people needed to get experience with traction. The whole concept of traction and driven wheels was new; even the bicycle didn't yet exist. For a long time it was not clear that something smooth like a rail could be used not just to reduce friction of passive wheels, but provide enough traction for drive wheels. So at first, the kinds of cogwheel, rack-and-pinion arrangements as used on inclined railways were used unnecessarily on flat ground or gentle slopes where we now know smooth wheels and rails would've worked. Models didn't scale linearly, so experience with full size equipment was needed.
where has this video been all my life? Even people who grow up in the Scranton area don't know how important the area was to the whole country's development. Now they just feel forgotten and discarded.
Northeastern PA helped fuel the industrial revolution and provided many of the raw materials to build our cities, such as Timber, Coal, Blue stone, and Steel. Thanks for the comment David!
Excellent video!
Thank you very much!
Wow ! So happy I came across this video! Our great grandfather started at a young age in the coal mine and then worked on the gravity railroad from Carbondale to Honesdale. I had no idea of the importance of the gravity railroad in the development of industry in our country!
If you have any photos of him working on the gravity railroad, we would love to include them in a segment.
This is amazing to learn about. My 4th Great Grandfather was Archibald Law, so getting to learn why he came to PA from Scotland is amazing.
Do you have any stories from the time that he was here?
Absolutely wonderful video. Very well produced and informative. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching!
I was always amazed at the 21 mile coast from above Drinker, PA to Avoca, Pa!
It really was an feat of engineering! Thanks for your comment!
Then there was the Ffestiniog narrow gauge railway in Wales.a 1' 11" gauge line used to transport slate from the slate mines originally horse drawn but later converted to steam traction. Utilising the Fairly patent articulated locos which hauled empty slate wagons up the hill to the numerous slate mines. Once loaded the wagons would be dispatched down to waiting ships in portmadoc ready to be exported. Now a tourist/ heritage railway demonstration gravity slate trains can be seen on gala festivals or the occasional train being slotted in during normal operational days.
Very cool railway. It looks like many of the railroads in our area that were once industrial, now converted for tourism. We will have to make the trip to the UK and check it out, if anyone is interested in finding out more about this former gravity railroad check out www.festrail.co.uk
7:50 Shepherd's Crook. The uphill side cut still exists, but the downhill side embankment was mined away. When the railroad switched to a locomotive track, the center of the curve was punched through with a switchback track, so south of the curve there are three rights-of-way.
Russell, thanks for the information and for watching! We have had a couple of comments providing additional information on the Gravity Railroad and will most likely do a revised version of the video this year.
My 2nd great grandfather, John Gilroy, was a carbondalean locomotive engineer on the D&H railroad!
Very cool. Does your family have any photos of him on the job or of the gravity railroad?
@@WallyLife I was told there is a photo of him standing next to his engine after some outlaws tried to free a convict upon it. There were bullet marks scattered across the cab. Perhaps it’s already with the Scranton or Carbondale historical society? If it is, my grandmothers cousin Thomas Newton would have given it decades ago
Rockport Massachusetts had a gravity railroad to bring granite from the quarries to the pier, where it was loaded on ships. This was used in buildings up & down the US east coast.
Greg, that is one thing Northeastern PA and Rockport have in common, providing the raw materials to build our cities on the East Coast. Thank you for the comment!
Wow, that was so interesting. I read about it in Jim Shaughnessy's History of the Delaware and Hudson but I didn't exactly understand how it worked till now. I'd been to the Roebling bridge many times ( I live in Sullivan county NY ) before I realized that was where the canal went over the Delaware river
Tommy, one of the places we produce Wally Life is in Lackawaxen on the PA side of the Roebling Bridge. The history in the area is great inspiration for some of our segments. Thank you for your comment!
thanks for putting this together the gravity railroad ran near my house, i read there was a gravity railroad for passengers too
It became an attraction for people when they found out how much fun it was to ride. It was the first roller coaster and operators used to take people up the mountain to picnic areas and to enjoy the view from the mountain top.
I am from Honesdale and I wish the pictures were labeled with locations...
Thank you for your suggestion. We'll keep in mind when we update the segment.
@@WallyLife It's just that you look at ut and try to place it, ya know what I mean? I may be looking at one from Wilsonville trying to locate it in Honesdale meanwhile its under the Lake. Thank you so much for what you do. I love the history lessons...
My grandfather was an anthracite miner in Carbondale.
Did he work on the gravity railroad or down in the mines?
Wally Life in the mines
That would make an interesting story as well.
uuuuhhhh.... 2:38 "in the 19th century those kinds of railroads hadn't been invented yet"... not sure how to tell you this but railroads ruled the 19th century. I understand that he is saying they were not commonplace in the US in the 1820s-30s but to say they had not been invented is a very silly exaggeration. He talks about the coal plants being opened in 1829 at which point the traditional steam locomotive had already been invented and existed in the U.S. for over a decade. The First "railroad" as we think of them today opened in 1830 and while it would take another decade or so for them to spread across North America, its kind of embarrassing for a Historian to say such a thing.
(sorry for the dorky rant)
You are correct about the railroad, the Stourbridge Lion begin operating here in 1829. I will go back and listen to him again, it is possible that he specifically meant the "gravity" railroad. I may have to go back to the original footage that was shot to see if the clip is out of context. Thank you for bringing that to our attention! We are planning to update several of the historic stories, so the feedback is very helpful.