Tom - thanks so much for putting this video together. This is critical info that will help me make an informed choice when ordering my Ford Lightning. The Intelligent Backup Power is the piece that trigged my interest in moving from an ICE to an EV. This truck makes great economic sense... lots of addded value over an ICE vehicle.
but some of us that have 100A ( challenger panels are unsafe and obsolete by 2010 findings, its now 2022 yeh just go with the flow of civilised society ) are already upgrading to 400 amp maids like me and 4 or more homes on my bock have it two. as for your feelings yep my 1968 c 10 can't quietly back up my house 🏡so the ford does have a very good selling point and around town i was told it's cheaper to operate but i might not get the thumbs up as much as it just looks like a regular newer truck vs my classic fleet
Very timely, extensively documented video. I just had a solar array installed and have been waiting months for 3 Powerwalls. Tesla is saying June, which is a year after we ordered them. Now it's a race between power walls and an F150 Lightning.
Tom, wonderful information. Really appreciate your diligent research. How about non-intelligent backup using the 240 V socket in the bed and a manual transfer switch?
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Why only a 30-amps maximum? Its total max is 40 amps, based on its 9.6 kW output? On a 50 amp circuit... fwiw I have asked if using the many forms of backup hookup was an option, in the past... But with no reply, so I really curious to hear the reply this time... Since they all seems more flexible and less costly than what Ford is offering... Since many different power sources can be used with them... Not just the Lightening...
@@nc3826 The 240V connector in the bed is an L14-30, which is 30A maximum rating. Could you also connect up multiple cords to the 120V outlets and parallel them for full 9.6kW system output - I'm guessing not based on the overcurrent protection on each. But you could power the house with the L14-30, and then use the 120V outlets to power dedicated devices - up to the full 9.6kW total output of the truck.
BJ: I did go into detail about different ways to do it,, for brevity... But my point was that the "total" system output "available" is the same 9.6kW via the Ford pro or its receptacles... For anyone who needed the extra 2.4 kW... So thx for your pedantic confirmation of that fact ;)
I saw the "derpy works" video with this setup using the 2021 F-150 Hybrid and he used a Generac 30 amp manual transfer switch that separated the neutral and ground wires inside the switch box. I just want to power a camper trailer when I get my Lightning in a couple months so I can get out of town for the weekend!
Nice one tom you make it so easy to understand thankyou I am in the UK and we will be able to do the same soon as long as your EV allows it very interesting and I would want to go this way as well when it's allowed but we aren't allowed to fitt the kitts only licenened companies can fitt them so it will be interesting how much they will charge even thou I am an auto electrician and have built and wired houses to code and over coded I like to be super safe and always over build my systems to last when I fitted my central heating I had to have it inspected and the men that came were in awe of what I had done and said they wouldn't go that far as it would cost a fortune but they were envious of my system this is the way I work so I really love that you guys can build your own as long as you know what you are doing we live in a nanny state here in the UK nowand boy it really bugs guys like me who know we can do a better job than the fitters sent to do the job anyway loved your video seeya tom all the best from john from Warwickshire UK.
That will be great in 5 years when they actually show up at a dealership and a dealership isn't price gouging...don't hold your breath waiting for one.
You didn't answer my biggest question... Can I power my house if the power is not out? Can I power my house daily for a few hours during on-peak hours? People have hinted that it is possible but nobody asks or answers that specific question.
The IBP is a generator from a National Electric Code (NEC) perspective. Whatever you could do with a generator, you can do with the IBP. In general, generators are connected to an essential loads subpanel that is physically isolated from the main panel by a transfer switch. Accordingly, you can power the subpanel with the generator while powering the main panel from the grid. You cannot feed the main panel simutaneously with the grid AND a generator. Violates NEC and is unsafe for linemen. (If you really want to connect the generator to the main panel, it is done with a transfer switch upstream of the meter. That may be the SunRun plan. If you go this way, you get the whole house but only at generator power.)
@@evahsia wouldn’t it be possible (generally, not necessarily with this system) to have it wired in such a way as the car acts like a solar array would. that can feed the house simultaneously with some energy with the rest coming from the grid.
@@MrKlawUK Solar power systems have a built-in safety system that prevents the solar panels from turning on (creating voltage) if there is no grid voltage. The system senses the live grid, then turns on (and adds power to the house supply). This prevents the solar power system from back feeding the grid and injuring line workers working on a dead grid. Generators don't have this feature and therefore require they be physically separated from the grid with a transfer switch. So, the IBP and grid cannot feed the same circuits at the same time. Thus, the need for a subpanel fed from the generator with a transfer switch preventing the grid feeding the subpanel at the same time. (The transfer switch switches the feed to the subpanel from grid to generator.) I should add that if you have a battery (and expensive controller) in the system, then it is possible to have the generator charging the battery, and the battery supplementing the grid along with the solar array supplementing the grid. Since the battery is DC, there is a natural separation between the generator and the grid (through the AC-DC and DC-AC inverters in the system).
@@MrKlawUK That is a different control mode, specifically "constant-current" versus "constant-voltage" mode. The system would also need to detect when it needs to be "islanded" like your solar inverter does. Not impossible but it is a completely different set of firmware (and a rather tricky change in my experience) as well as a bit more hardware.
The fact the Standard Range will have to pay for this system is ridiculous. This information should have been put out before Ford starting taking orders. Many people have ordered the standard range battery thinking they could use it as a backup if needed and now find out they will have to pay to use this system. Lobe the greed factor of modern companies.
Good information. As I am watching this, my neighbors nat gas powered built in generator kicked on for its weekly "maintenance" run, so I had to turn the volume up. Having your EV power your house instead of buying a generator would be great. Also looking forward to the day all lawn mowers and especially leaf blowers are electric!
Thanks Tom for this thorough information and making this new world of vehicle to grid understandable. Lots of good questions with solid answers. Excellent journalism.
@@loriallen67 me too the in-laws as a newly wed didn't understand why i wanted a solar panels and or mower as im not a fan of paying for gas ect. but for 2-stroke/nitro ect. RC's i probably will miss it but thats not a every weekend kinda thing
Um er.. I have a really stupid question.. If it has intelligent backup power? What the fuck charges the truck? Before it charges the house? What a huge con.. You have to charge the truck before you can run the house.. What a wank...
Starting HVAC compressors can be difficult with peak startup power at multiples of the average power consumption. My heat pump consumes 2 kW for example but starting surge is well over 10 kW I think. So is there a spec on the surge ability of the inverter? I expect it is pretty good, even the onboard inverter for job site power should be able to start a circular saw and such. I have heard skeptics ask about powering arc welders from the onboard inverter for job site power, but that seems like a fairly rare use case compared to air compressors and such. And of course, why not power your house with a cheaper manual transfer switch or two and cord(s) going to the outlets in the truck? Not automatic but if you do not have frequent outages, it is an option.
Ford has an arc welder as an example for powering from the 9.6kw pro power in the back of the truck. So it may be rare, but it seems like they took it into account at least.
Thanks wish Ford would post this on their web site. If I sell my truck does the new owner have to pay Ford to reenable the power out (I.e. is it code matched to my charger)?
Tom Q for Ford: Can we use the onboard power outlets while the truck is level 1 or level 2 charging so at 120 or 240V? Can we use the outlets while the truck is DC fact charging? Lastly can we use the on board AC outlets while the truck is sending DC power to the home sun power inverter in a outage? Thank you.
Tom - you are SERIOUSLY doing great work, my friend. My questions: What is SunRun’s service area? Will they do installs all over the country? Will SunRun do service upgrades and main panel upgrades if you needed to wanted to? Can you use a CCS to Tesla adapter to charge a Tesla using the Ford Pro Charger’s CCS connector? Do you see manufactures moving towards a kWhs used warranty rather than a mileage warranty in the future with V2H/V2G becoming more and more commonplace (hopefully). Cannot wait to see these all over North Texas. Game changer on day 1 after the money is spent to make it live.
Oh, one more question about the Ford Charge Station Pro. You mentioned it can be de-rated down to 20-amps, which is similar to their 48-amp unit. My question is: will the Charge Station Pro allow for lesser power selections by both hardware means (e.g. physical DIP switches?) as well as by software/app settings? Some users may want to be able to use a temporary setting of a desired charge rate set to less than the full hardware current setting to not pull a full 80-amps (or whatever the hardware max is set to) and instead just use say a 20-amp charge rate using power from a solar installation on a sunny day? I hope that makes sense.
great questions also wondering if i had 2 charger pro's / level 2-ford one one line can thay target a setting for one bay and a different number for the others bay like how some charges talk to each other for max line use/efficacy? or do i have to do it all at the service panel/in hardware/in 2 different copper lines? as i right now see one vehicle being parked a lot vs the other one being a daily to work and back so it needs more nighty juice than the other truck and one spare plug for tools/a 3d visitor car
Great Job on this subject. I already have a GenerLink Transfer Switch for use with my portable generator. I plan on using the the 240v receptacle in the bed for backup. Same plug L14-30.
I am ordering the 9.6KW onboard charger also for emergency home power support with a external RV connector and a transfer switch. Much cheaper and the 7KW output will provide enough power for lighting, sump pump, furnace power and refrigerators (critical loads). I think Tom could do a short video on using the 240 volt output and a manual transfer switch for those who are willing to run a cord and switch a switch :).
Very good video. Thank you Ford for engaging with Tom to get us the information we need. During the great Texas Freeze-Out we used a portable generator to charge phones and run a couple heaters. The Lightning comes with a built in inverter (2 different capacity versions?) meant to replace a portable generator at a job site. Is it possible to have the truck's inverters on but have the truck secure to where it cannot be driven off? While not as robust of a solution as the Intelligent Backup Power, it would do in a pinch and certainly be safer and less troublesome than a gasoline generator.
Yes, you can turn on and off any of the three zones (bed, interior, MegaPower Frunk) separately whether the truck is running or not. You can use those outlets when the truck is driving and when the truck is charging.
@@chasingcoralMD Thanks! That's perfect. I see that you also got a test ride in a Lightning. I sure wish they let us film that from inside. It will be hard to get people to believe what that truck can do. All EVs are quick off the line but I was absolutely stunned by the handling.
Does the ford charger pro ‘cooperate’ on the same circuit if you you have, say, two Lightnings and one Mach E on three Ford charge Stations pros but all three on one dedicated 100 Amp Circuit? Similarly, would the three separate Ford Charge Station Pro EVSEs ‘cooperate’ to know which vehicle to pull electricity from to power the house in the event of a home power outage? Would the EVSEs ‘switch’ from vehicle to vehicle until, say a plugged in vehicle got down to 20% charge reserve for driving that you set it to?
I sorta suspect the warranty for powering home will hold. Pulling 9.6Kw a lot and charging back at 19kw should be WAY WAY WAY easier on battery than pulling 100-400Kw out on the roads and then charging at 150Kw at a DC fast charger. So as far as the battery warranty goes...guessing Ford would be happy if you use it more to power house than drive around on long road trips.
Hi Tom! Great video! Some more questions for you and Ford on this topic... - Sunrun doesn't appear to actually _make_ their own solar hardware. Which manufacturer's brand and models of equipment are they planning to provide for the components of the Home Integration System? - Sunrun is also not located in nor servicing all states. When will the documentation be available for the Home Integration System components for electricians/solar installers? - Do Ford and/or Sunrun plan to offer a cross-branded solar hardware compatibility guide for existing solar installation owners? (If not, they absolutely should be thinking about this!)
id like more of the wiring diagrams and physical looks / how it's supposedly wired up and how it works the add's was ok but way to fuzzies on the real house 🏡setting it up to work and be 🇺🇸 legal. my installer that i had a bid done for liked enphase 8h inverters ( new for 2021-23 ) aka 240v ac @ max solar line amp's of 220A ish 15kw-20kw system the my 400A main panel so i don't know 🤔if the sunrun use's simar hardware or its a high 800~ voltage dc setup like some of the fronics/Europeanised inverters
More details on installation are definitely needed. For example, does the DC out of the charge station to the inverter run on the same wires that feed ac to to the charge station? If not, what additional wires are needed to run to wherever the inverter is installed?
You're looking at approximately $4000 for the home integration system from Sunrun. I haven't heard what their installation charges will be. Most likely very high. But the Sunrun system should come with instructions for an electrician to install it. Still costly because the line in from the grid will have to be rerouted from the main service breaker to the Sunrun system transfer switch and from there back to the main breaker. There was a comment about some home supply services being as large as 400 amps. I'd be surprised if Sunrun transfer switch would accept the size wire to handle that kind of current. I'm thinking they'll probably have a 200 amp transfer switch in their system. The inverter in their system is also unique as it's input voltage from the truck will be around 400 volts DC. I believe this will be a very costly installation. I would be very interested in hearing from anyone that's had their home integration system installed.
My Generac can provide 18 kW running on NG. Its run time is unlimited. The total cost with transfer switch and professional installation was $10k. And I can drive my vehicle while the Generac is powering the house. The 9.6 kW that can be provided by the truck isn’t going to handle the starting current for my 5 ton main A/C.
Any idea when the installation instructions will be made available for the Charge Station Pro and Home Integration kit? Ford only details a single slide for the Charge Station Pro - not a install manual. I'm sure these documents will cover the nuances of installation - which would be very helpful for circuit planning, etc.
I'm getting a Tesla model 3 and a f150 lighting over the summer. Can I install the ford charger and the Tesla charger to share one 100a circuit, or do I have to run a 100a for the ford and a separate 60a for the Tesla charger?
There is a CCS to Tesla adapter but only on sale in S. Korea for now. Imported units are reported as not functioning here in the US yet. Tesla does say they'll have the connector available in the US 'soon'.
Amazing video, great questions. Ford have a winner on their hands here. Imagine all those Texans who lost power at the end of 2020 when they have freezing tempratures. Texans love trucks, and after that long power outage event they will really want this truck. I do have one questions. Say the truck isn't plugged in when the power goes out, maybe I arrive home to a dark house. Can you plug the truck in and have it power the home then.
Seems like a lot of red tape just to back feed some power lol. I guess they cant be liable for killing someone. In winter you should have some non electrical back up heat. Propane. Fireplace. ETC. Truck should run your lights and tv for a week easy. Warm up your hot water when you need a shower but I bet that uses quite a bit of power. It will use about 5500 watts for 1.5hours to heat 50gallons to 140ish. good for a few quick showers.
I’m interested in learning more about the ability to integrate the Ford backup system into my existing solar installation with a SolarEdge inverter. I have 400 AMP service and am about to have an electrician install a dedicated 100 AMP service to my garage. When I installed solar last year I delayed buying a powerwall battery in anticipation of buying a Lightning. My hope is to be able to use the truck to power the house every night and then recharge the truck with excess solar during the day. It sounds like this will NOT be possible out of the box. I understand the concern about battery wear and tear but we’re not talking about that much usage, maybe the equivalent of driving an extra 15-25 miles per day. I hope Ford will reconsider their position.
Hey Tom, great video! I have Enphase Solar and Storage so I already have a transfer switch to island my house. Can I use Ford Intelligent Backup Power and skip all the Sunrun equipment?
I'm sure that answer is no. The high voltage battery in the truck cannot connect to your Enphase system, since enphase is microinverter based (AC) and their storage battery is also AC coupled. The truck needs to connect to a conventional high-voltage inverter - that's not something that is exposed with your Enphase system. Regarding wanting to use your Enphase whole home transfer switch instead of the Sunrun one, I'm sure that would be nice, but not likely they support anything other than the Sunrun equipment regarding that aspect. So sadly you'd likely need both autotransfer switches.
Thanks Tom, a very informative video. I am a Tesla M3P owner with 13.8kw of solar on my roof in Australia. I am not sure we will see the Ford electric truck here, that said this is a great concept and I would love Tesla to do it; I have had to purchase a powerwall for this flexibility and it is only a 13.6kw battery when I have 75kw sitting in the car unusable!
Hi Adam, I think we will see the Lightning in Australia within a couple of years once supply chain issues work through. The Toyota Hilux is Australia's biggest selling vehicle and if current taxation advantages remain for these types of vehicles the F150 lighting would be a huge seller. Congrats on being a T3 owners. 👍⚡🔋
My question for Ford is why are they charging people to use this feature on the standard range battery, if the feature is already built into the truck and I bought the truck then i should be able to use it without having ti pay extra, and if I do have to pay extra, that cost should be available and made public at the time I ordered my truck, not weeks after orders were made.
What exactly do you claim you were not informed about? Every Ford advertisement (and webpage) has included in the fine print that IBP requires the Charge Station Pro AND additional hardware "to separate the panel from the grid".
So, I am willing to pay the $500 to get the Intelligent Backup Power software activation for my SR Lightning, but can't find where I can do that. Ford's web site says, “Intelligent Backup Power software activation is included with the purchase of the extended-range F-150 Lightning battery or can be bought as a one-time purchase for the standard-range battery here.” The word “here“ is a hyperlink to a page, after signing in, that says “SOMETHING’S NOT QUITE RIGHT, so it's a dead/bad hyperlink. No one in Ford Customer Service that I have spoken to has been able to answer that. Help!
Great Video, however I am concerned about having to use SunRun for backup power, will ford provide schematics for any company or electrician to build the components? Its a monopoly for one company to provide this hardware and unfair!
Excellent work Tom. Need to emphasize that after spending thousands of dollars for backup, it only works if the truck is at home and has a decent SoC. Also many homes will need a secondary panel for BU power to isolate heavy loads. As we go electric many new homes have 400A.
Most heavy loads aren't essential during a power outage, just don't operate high powered devices. Anyway when Ford states the lightning will power the average home for 3 days, they are basing that on a maximum daily usage of 30 kWh. So around 90 kWh of use in 3 days. That would still leave around 41 kWh left in the truck battery. Reducing the load to 10 kWh/day would stretch that to 9 days.
2:29 - and there it is guys, while some dare accuse Tommy Molo' of "not being scientific enough", meanwhile here he is getting to the bottom (and correcting) the whole 320A Service misnomer as originally published by FOMOCO. 👍😎👌 even though it's now been discussed on a few other channels (with no resolution) i already knew if the final clarification was going to happen anywhere...? it would be RIGHT HERE. pfft, these Internet kids just never learn.
So I’m not clear, does Intelligent Backup Power and Charge Station Pro use the same cable and plug into the charging port? Or is backup power AC power coming from one of the 8 AC outlets? If AC is it 40 Amps x 240 volts for 9600 Watts or is it 80 Amps x 120 Volts? Or is backup power delivered as DC then inverted to AC by whatever inverter you use? If supplying DC what is the voltage? Sorry for all of the questions. Thinking about how to integrate into existing solar + battery system. Thank you.
Enjoyed your video and your inside EB podcast. I currently have a generator at my house with a transfer switch. Rather than spend the thousands on the intelligent back up I think a much more economical route is to use the 240v plug in the truck bed to power my house. As far as I can see this would only require me purchasing a longer extension cord that will go between my transfer switch and my Lighting. Is this an incorrect assumption?
Yes, it is a more economical choice for those who already have the connection and transfer switch. A couple of details matter. First, the 240VAC in the bed is only a 30A circuit (7.2kW). This is less than the 9.6kW from the Charge Station Pro + Sunrun inverter. Second, the connection in the bed is a L14-30 (4-wire L1, L2, N, G). You need a compatible extension cord, and generator inlet. There is no indication a 3-wire (L1, L2, G) circuit would work. Third, while Ford advertises all day power at a worksite, they haven't committed to the 24 hour (3 or 10 day) constant load, which may not be covered by warranty.
One more thing: Why not use "dumb" (my term) backup power. My plan is to use the Nema 14-30 plug in the bed of the truck and connect to the installed generator switch next to my service panel which I can manually switch over to the needed circuits. If I am home it's no big deal to pull out the extension cord and plug the truck into the generator switch. Only advantage of the intelligent power back is time saved by automatically restoring the power. The truck still needs to be plugged into the charger and If it's not at home there is no backup anyway.
This a great lower cost, easier to deploy solution using the "ProPower Onboard" L14-30R in the bed. What I've read is that the GFCI L14-30 outlet needs a "switched neutral" transfer switch so the GFCI won't trip. Some youTube videos have been trying this out using the "ProPower Onboard" L14-30R on the existing 2021 F150 Hybrid. The Lightning will also have "ProPower Onboard" but I don't know if it will be an L14-30 or L14-50
Hey Tom. I’m one of the very fortunate people who made the first wave to convert my F150 Lightning reservation to an order! I ordered the extended range Lariat. I have been searching for the very questions you answered in this video as I definitely want the home backup system. Outstanding job and most helpful! BTW, I’m also installing solar in a few weeks so I was especially interested in your questions about integrating solar into the equation. If you’re interested I’ll let you know how my order and equipment install goes. Keep up the great work!
Can IBP sync with the Utility after going thru the SunRun inverter? Just like solar panels & home backup batteries/powerwalls sync the 60Hz frequency. But if utility drops, all the alternative sources of power drop to not feedback on the utility. A switch to drop out the utility, without being a transfer switch, would be needed for utility safety. Then the alternative sources of power take over. (Hmm, how do three different sources of backup power sync? Vehicle, powerwall, solar?) When the "magic" switch detects the utility is back, the alternative sources of power sync waveforms with it, and the utility connects back. Is there such a thing?
7:40 Really odd section on derating the charging (20a) but allowing the "Charge Station Pro" backup power (100a). Isn't the wiring the same? Diff charging circuit vs power backup? A 100 amp [circuit] wiring size requirement is #4 for copper wires and #2 for aluminum wires. -- P.S. Props for doing this whole video. It was outstanding and overall you explain these topics really well.
I will get complete clarification on that soon. I believe you need to run two feeds. One for charging - that could be a 20-amp circuit. And one for powering the house that goes to the inverter- that would need to support the 40-amps the truck can provide to the home.
9600 watt backup power is only 40 amps AC at 240 V. 100 amp circuit for charging is optional and does let you charge in less than 8 hours even from zero to 100% on the largest battery. But you can charge at 20 amps also, it just implies that it will take 4 times as long. Heck, it will probably even charge at 7 amps, but that could take almost a week.
Great info. Especially that we have a choice of installers other than Sunrun. From what you’ve told us so far, I’ll probably go for a V2L solution (F-150 Lightning and panel set up to be used as if it was a traditional emergency generator) in the short term. By 2025, there should be more solutions on the market that will make V2H/V2G less complicated.
This seems to be the way to go. Not automatic, but much less expensive. Just install an inexpensive transfer switch, and buy a cable to use between the Ford’s 240 V outlet in the bed and the transfer switch’s generator connector.
Hello Tom, Great show. I would like you to interview an Electrical Inspector from the City Building Department and your local Electric power utility provided. This will provide a proper contrast on safe installation methods and power demands available in existing district areas. Also remind your viewers - a heavy fraction of EV owners charge at night-time while they are sleeping. All EVSE shall be inspected for safest and NEC standards are confirmed with an "Approved Green Sticker" 73
Great video, thank you for putting this information out there. They definitely make it not obvious That you’ll need the integration kit separately from the pro wall charger. I figured it was all built into that, too bad.
I use the Emporia Vue 2 energy monitoring in my circuit panels, I can tell how much power I use each day. I really like the system, I mostly got it to see how much power the hot tub is taking in the winter. Also i can tell my peak load and so far i haven't seen peak load over 10kw. Also you mentioned 60 amp(48) EVSE's are $600+, the Emporia Smart car charger is only $400 and can be direct wired for 60amp circuit wiring.
I 2nd the request to review the Emporia charger. I also use the Vue 2 energy montior (several), and it works well. Only issue I see with their charger is it being not UL Listed - only designed per those standards (or so they say on the website). But would love to see the other aspects reviewed, as it does seem like a nice intelligent low cost 48A EVSE.
@@billjohnson3344 yep they built the charger to UL standards but are still in process to get actual approval. Tom has reviewed non-UL listed chargers in the past tho, so just wouldn't get the UL points in his rating scale
Tom mentioned a big 'maybe' here. With a full Sunrun system it sounded like this is possible (components likely speak the same language to curtail solar generation output to balance with home usage and truck output). But yes, if the truck can't backfeed any excess solar from non-Sunrun systems, that solar system would have to be disabled when in Backup mode to avoid household equipment damage (all generated power must be consumed somewhere). If this all is true, this system is less capable than a stationary backup system - which will charge the battery from excess solar (a good thing not wasting power, and keeps the balance). It would be disappointing if the Ford solution can't do this given access to the gigantic battery - really just more of a silent generator solution (where you have to disable your existing solar).
Very well explained. I agree there is so much interest in V2H or V2L. On our TH-cam channel we showcased our DIY vehicle to load upgrade to our MG ZS EV and got so many comments and calls. Keep up the great work 👍⚡🔋
Really good information, Tom. We have a 2018 LR RWD M3 and a 2021 LR MY -- both of which we LOVE -- and we have one of the F-150 Lightning trucks reserved. I'm really tempted to sell the M3 to get the LR F-150 Lightning and this was great information toward making that final decision.
Tom, Great video, very informative. I had many questions and you and Ford answered them all. Thanks! PS. I do hope that Ford provides better integration with PV solar backup in the future, and also makes the on-board 19 kW charger bi-directional. The latter would save quite a bit by eliminating the need for a separate off-vehicle inverter to power your home.
I have a 13 kw solar system that powers my home, but will have to either reduce the input of my pro charger to use on my solar system else connect it to the grid and leave it set for full 80 amp input. But I will be using the 120/240 charger that comes with the truck to charge using my solar as it only draws 30 amps 240 volts or 7200 watts. On a sunny day my solar batteries are usually topped off by 1 p.m. so I'll still have a few hours of charging available to me. At approximately $.15/kWh it certainly wouldn't hurt to just charge off the grid even cheaper in the winter. I only drive around 100 miles a week so at 2 miles/ kWh that's only $7.50. That's approximately 50 kw so just 2-3 hours of solar would replenish my truck battery at no cost.
Great video, Tom. Our generator is only 8kw as you’re aware. We have all electric appliances including oven, stove, clothes dryer and of course A/C. Only our heat is not electric, although of course the pump and furnace fan are electric. We can run A/C and either cook, or do laundry with the generator. So the Lightning should have no problem powering the average home.
yeh maybe at your house (so you're not browning out? at all or tripping out any breakers? ) but not so convencted at my place based on quickie nabcan mathematics on 3k sq ft mine
@@richardprice5978 In an emergency it’s not life as usual. You’re not going to have all your lights on, fry eggs, bake a cake, and do laundry all at the same time. The square footage of your house doesn’t matter really, except for maybe central A/C, which you can set higher than normal. You can only be in one room at a time. It’s an emergency, remember. Keeping your heat going and refrigerator running is paramount.
@@petebremy49 well i started out with a main 100A challenger planel ( finishing a 400A upgrade in 2022 so no hot test yet ) and i gets way too hot. as for floor sq foot its a quick and dirty way that electrician's use to compare house's but that doesn't work 80% ish of the time as some use more that others and yes i did try to pick one night/72H to simulate a power outage but for me that's a little hard right now as i have dumb dumb equipment that doesn't measure usages. my range is 60A the main heating is N gas but the blower ist small loading no heat pump for now but should add above ground unit 4ton ( i have a 3ton ac but it's not enough enough and or really doesn't work right ) im not sure if its the best use in a emergency ( heating pumping ) or not as for lighting this house is offal for outside letting in nature aka 💡has to be on to see anything
@@petebremy49 well i don't know about you but in my case if i can/the utility's are on the frizts for more than 3~ days im taking a bath with my N gas water heater and doing my electric washer and electric dryer laundry's. and id expect the others 3 or 4 of us in the house to do that too plus the dishwasher/dishes ect., i have my limits and slob isn't one of those im okay with nothing on you it's a me thing
Great video. Follow-up questions... How does the Home Integration System wire in? The 80A Charge Station Pro needs a 100A circuit, does the Home Integration System also need a separate circuit from the panel? Or does it share that same 100A circuit, and wire up only to the 80A Charge Station Pro? It would seem like some connection between those two is needed - connecting the DC wiring from the vehicle cord to the SunRun inverter? Also still curious on the specs of what the system can provide regarding surge rating - can this setup run typical 3 or 4 ton central home air conditioning?
FWIW he mentions it needs its separate circuit... Seems to be based on CCS's upcoming V2G functionality.... Which seems to mirror Chedemo... where DC and AC functions are kept separate... Unlike Tesla where DC and AC use the same lines.. And I left a question asking where the DC to AC inversion is done, for its backup power function... But Tom said only the SunRun transfer box is needed... he did not mention their inverter...
@@nc3826 I think it needs reverse power flow to support V2H but not full V2G support. The home is islanded with V2H. V2G implies a lot of coordination with the grid.
@@davidtuttle3429 V2L, V2H and V2G all require "bidirectional" power flow.... Which it will have...(it's not necessary that it be "reversed", on the same circuit),... And my "CCS V2G" reference was just a conjecture about what "protocols" it uses? Not that its function is to feed power to the grid (even though, it does have the "power circuitry" to do so).... Sorry to confuse you....
At the end of day Ford is a automaker. They are not a utility company. Therefore, I would not trust anything coming from them when it comes to installing a home charger for an electric vehicle. You have to have a certified electrician assess your residence to determine what your options are and what it would cost to install and get a permit for the installation. It’s an extra cost that varies. Also another thing no one is talking is what will happen with your utility service. Just because you have back up power does not mean you will save money on your bill. In fact it may increase your cost if you have the ability to disconnect from the grid and produce your own power. So check with your provider before pay big 💰 to install the 80 amp system. Man 75k to 100k on average for an F150. The cheap versions are sold out so it will be interesting to see how many people complete their reservations and purchase a lariat or the platinum as Ford has no plan to build the cheaper versions in mass quantity. These trucks are not made to order. They’re made for maximizing profit for Ford.
Solar Panels are DC and Lightning's batteries are DC. Is there a way to connect Solar Panels directly to the Lightning? I prefer not to have to convert the Solar Panel DC to 240V AC just so I can connect an AC Charger to my truck.
Can you skip the whole "Back Up System" n just use your 9.6 kw Truck bed's 32 amp receptacle to power your panel when the grid is out? Use an 6 gauge wire w a 14-50 male on one end and an L 6-30 or 14-30 (which ever adapter need for the receptacle on the bed) male on the other end to draw power from the truck to the panel? N if so, can you use the entire battery capacity (98 or 131 kw) from those receptacles? And if it's a "Yes", wouldn't that be easier than spending all that money ($5k+ from Sunrun and $3-4k from dealer) n time waiting for the installation?
Tom great video - my question is more on V2G capabilities. Is it possible to power my home during the day with the F150 battery during peak electricity and then connect back to grid during off peak? This also aligns with off peak charging incentives.
The truck needs a 100 amp dedicated circuit? Really? We recently installed 10 extra solar panels on our house (we now have 24) and had our main upgraded from a 150-amp service to a 200-amp service. We already have a 50-amp dedicated circuit for our Tesla wall charger. Even with our upgraded service, I don't think there's any way we could add a dedicated 100-amp circuit for the F-150 lightning. Wow. That's disappointing. We do have a gas water heater, gas range/oven, and gas furnace, so maybe that makes it doable?
Could you charge up the truck at a fast charger at the dealer? Then use the charge to power your house?! Reminds me of the stingy villain, Smythe, from the movie "Jules Verne's Rocket to the Moon" 1967 stealing gas from gas lamps using a hose and pump. Swiping $20 of electricity doesn't make practical sense, but it would be something for the LoLs.
is it peak 9.6kW? or is the peak 7.6kW because it's 7.6kW + 2kW? I heard it's a small generator in front and big generator in the back. If we have a 8.5kW peak draw, will the F150 Lightning backup work or not?
Great video. Do you have to have WiFi for the Charge Station Pro for it to charge normally? Is charging time programming (ie. charge at night between set hours) set in the vehicle settings, or through charger settings? Does the Charge Station Pro have a built-in inverter for DC from the vehicle to AC for the house? What provider is being used in Canada? And also, when does Sunrun anticipate releasing more details of the Home Integration System, including pricing?
Thank you Tom for clearing up the 320a service requirement. Also for other good information. I reserved early and hope to get my lightning before the end of the year. I had recently sold a portable generator I'd had for 6 years and was about to buy a new one with the Lightning was announced. So hopefully no power failures until after my Lightning delivery!
Great video. One update I have is that my system will not automatically backup when grid power goes out. I have to turn it on manually from the in-vehicle settings. I did some research on this problem and it looks like a very common issue if not the only way to use the backup feature. Also, the permitting department and fire department want to do a test of a rapid shutdown while the truck is powering the home. Disconnect of DC under load is not a good idea because the truck will try overcome the disconnect driving more power to the house and cause arcing and power surge in the house... so don't try it. I would love to know how the fire department is supposed to shut down the system in an emergency without causing a fire. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Hey Tom thanks for all that very useful information, I’m considering buying a Lightning in my case mainly because it’s the only one that is capable of doing home back up at this time. My question to you is, would you please let us know when you get pricing on what’s the cost to get the intelligent back up equipment and activation? Btw I’m buying the extended battery lariat trim. Thanks in advance.
Tesla sells their 48-amp Wall Connector for only $425. This is the best deal for a 48-amp home charging solution out there. This is not a bi-directional solution like the horrendously expensive Ford 80-amp connector but I mention it because the Ford 48-amp wall connector was mentioned as costing the same as all other systems on the market (which is not true).
I can’t imagine the backup power thing will be used to death (warranty covering home backup power) 99% of people will never use this, the 1% that do will probably use it maybe once a year. Sure outliers will exist(off grid workshop maybe) but I’d think it’s worth giving that 0.1% if users to just have free batteries. It will take years to ruin a battery that way anyway. does driving really pull from the battery differently than using it for other purposes? I would think the loads would likely be less (but pulled in the same way)
Hello Tom: My F150 Extended Battery Lariat Lightning order is scheduled to be built the week of 5-16! I’ve watched your awesome TH-cam videos about the Intelligent Backup System. I was wondering if you may be able to get an engineer from SunRun on your channel? I have reached out to them several times asking for info about the hardware they will be selling to make the Home Integration System work with the truck. I can’t get anywhere with them beyond their customer service and general sales agents who are clueless about it. You have put out really good info about it but I am actually having solar installed in couple of weeks as well. SunRun does not service North Carolina where I live. I wanted to ask them if there is anything my local solar installer needs to do so that I will be able to integrate my solar system in with the Intelligent Backup System? Nobody seems to know anything about this. All Ford says is that SunRun is their preferred installer and that it will integrate with “their” solar systems. We’ll, what about other solar providers where SunRun does not service? Thanks for all you do!
You need 100 amp wire to charger, at 80% load gives u 80 amp , so 100 amp is not enough, min200 amp, you keep 100 for the house 100 for the charger Options to charger circuits 20 amp 30 amp 40amp Those typical for appliances so you could put those to a charger I believe the lightning comes with a two chargers 15 amp and 30or 40, get a electrician set up 40 amp circuit you have 220 v 40 amp circuit available at 80% load gives you 31 amps to charge,
I’m sure you are aware but a Tesla CCS Adapter is coming (already available in Korea) so as long as your Tesla is newer (I think it was around 2019/2020+), you should in theory be able to then charge it from the Ford charger.
I believe the 320amp service requirement comes in because of the NEC's 120% rule which states when back feeding a main panel the busbars can not be overloaded by more than 120%. Without getting into the weeds if Ford opens this up to feed power to the grid to reduce your electric bill (which would totally be cool) you could possibly back feed too much power that the main breaker would not see possibly causing a fire. For example if your main panel has a 200 amp breaker and the Ford charger can back feed up to 60 amps there is a possibility of having 260amps total on your main panel's buss bars if your home is using that much power at any given time. In this scenario the breakers would not see it or trip but your buss bars will be feeling it and be heating up. However, a 320amp panel is allowed to have up to 64 amps of back feed. Not confirmed only my guess. It would be interesting if @ford can engineer in a software limiter based on CT readings taken off the mains that way you can swt the back feed limit based on service size of each client. Ford can send a consultation payment my way ;)
Check out "derpy works" video on how he used a manual transfer switch to power his house with his 2021 F-150 Hybrid. I thinks the same applies to the Lightning model. Comments please
Great review. You speak so comfortably. Concerning Battery Backup a good point to make is despite a 30A limit of electricity sent to the house, if you stagger your electrical use you can run a lot of things. It isn't necessary to run the microwave, hair dryer, gas forced hot air blower motor and toaster oven at the same time. Stagger them and the F-150 delivery capability will not be overloaded. Houses have 200A service panels so you CAN run all those things at the same time.
The Lightning being built is like watching paint dry. Bought a F150 Power Boost Lariat Hybrid while I was waiting. It will light my home and I can take it on the road with over a 600 mile range before I fill up in about 5 minute and go for another 600 + miles! Without a charging station on every Corning. My gut feeling is that Electric Cars for everyone may go away after the 2022 Congress Election and the tree hugger leave office!
I’ve come to realize 20k more for a truck that runs on electricity over a similarly equipped gas truck isn’t for me anymore. Sorry, Ford, Chevy and cyber truck. Now about that electric GM backed pontoon, you still got my interest. Limited use boat with a 66 kw battery for weekend leisure is something I can spend money on.
I'm sure the 9600 watts that the lightning is capable of outputting has nothing to do with the power that can be supplied to your house. The reason I say this is when powering your home with the lightning you aren't utilizing the trucks Inverters. The power is coming straight from the trucks battery via the two DC pins on the charge port. The roughly 400 vdc is transferred to the home integration system which contains a 400 vdc input inverter which converts that DC voltage to 240 vac which is then transferred to the service panel via a transfer switch which also disconnects the grid from the service panel. I'm not sure of the amperage but assuming it's close to 80 - 100 amp range, or 19.2 kw - 24 kw output if it was to power the entire home for 3 days @ 30 kw/ day.
Tom don't know if you're still answering these. I just installed the the whole system. I have the Ford Pro 3000 charger and the platinum lightning. The charging station wifi goes on and off all the time, it wont allow me to pair the truck to it, or, consistently show up on the Charge pro app so I can test the intelligent back up system?? Any suggestions??
Please can you comment on the SIZE of the panels for charging system. Sunrun will give me NO information on how large it is and how much roof space it will require. In fact I have to build a structure to put system on BEFORE I take delivery of my truck and they will not tell me what size it needs to be.
I have solar and I am about to install backup batteries with the goal of being energy independent, and someone suggested the F150 Lightning could accomplish this. Is that correct? Does it have the ability to switch to backup battery with the Home Kit whenever my solar is producing insufficient energy to power my home and drawing from its battery as opposed to drawing from the grid? I'll still be connected to the grid, but the idea is the draw comes first from solar, then battery, then the grid. I haven't been able to find anything addressing this specifically.
If you want to power your home from your truck you will be able to do that with limitations. Those limitations are: No automatic transfer switching. Maximum 7200 watts supplied to home from truck. You will need some sort of transfer switch to avoid back feeding to the grid. You will need a way to connect the 30 amp receptacle on the truck to your transfer switch. If you're already setup with a generator you plug into your service. Then you can used that connection to your truck instead of to the generator. The simplest transfer switch would be using an interlock in your service panel. A 30 amp generator breaker located just below your Main breaker. The interlock will prevent the main & generator breaker from being closed at the same time. As mentioned above you will be limited to 7.2 kw so you won't be using you electric stove, electric clothes dryer etcetera. Note: If the panel you are powering with your truck has the ground tied to the neutral you may get a ground fault error on your trucks sync screen. If you wish to use this scenario for home backup, I recommend you work with a qualified electrician.
Everything about the costs of V2H make having a manual transfer switch and generator receptacle the much preferred option for me. My grid is very reliable - I’d likely never recoup the costs of this system.
Hi Tom This Is lukas my Question is will you charge your ford f -150 Lighting to your house or at a electric station so It can save money, energy, and economy for the world to have? Thanks Lukas barnes
Tom - thanks so much for putting this video together. This is critical info that will help me make an informed choice when ordering my Ford Lightning. The Intelligent Backup Power is the piece that trigged my interest in moving from an ICE to an EV. This truck makes great economic sense... lots of addded value over an ICE vehicle.
but some of us that have 100A ( challenger panels are unsafe and obsolete by 2010 findings, its now 2022 yeh just go with the flow of civilised society ) are already upgrading to 400 amp maids like me and 4 or more homes on my bock have it two. as for your feelings yep my 1968 c 10 can't quietly back up my house 🏡so the ford does have a very good selling point and around town i was told it's cheaper to operate but i might not get the thumbs up as much as it just looks like a regular newer truck vs my classic fleet
Very timely, extensively documented video. I just had a solar array installed and have been waiting months for 3 Powerwalls. Tesla is saying June, which is a year after we ordered them. Now it's a race between power walls and an F150 Lightning.
Tom, wonderful information. Really appreciate your diligent research. How about non-intelligent backup using the 240 V socket in the bed and a manual transfer switch?
That will work also, 30-amps maximum, I'll ask Ford more about that soon.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Why only a 30-amps maximum? Its total max is 40 amps, based on its 9.6 kW output? On a 50 amp circuit...
fwiw I have asked if using the many forms of backup hookup was an option, in the past... But with no reply, so I really curious to hear the reply this time...
Since they all seems more flexible and less costly than what Ford is offering... Since many different power sources can be used with them... Not just the Lightening...
@@nc3826 The 240V connector in the bed is an L14-30, which is 30A maximum rating. Could you also connect up multiple cords to the 120V outlets and parallel them for full 9.6kW system output - I'm guessing not based on the overcurrent protection on each. But you could power the house with the L14-30, and then use the 120V outlets to power dedicated devices - up to the full 9.6kW total output of the truck.
BJ: I did go into detail about different ways to do it,, for brevity... But my point was that the "total" system output "available" is the same 9.6kW via the Ford pro or its receptacles... For anyone who needed the extra 2.4 kW...
So thx for your pedantic confirmation of that fact ;)
I saw the "derpy works" video with this setup using the 2021 F-150 Hybrid and he used a Generac 30 amp manual transfer switch that separated the neutral and ground wires inside the switch box.
I just want to power a camper trailer when I get my Lightning in a couple months so I can get out of town for the weekend!
Nice one tom you make it so easy to understand thankyou I am in the UK and we will be able to do the same soon as long as your EV allows it very interesting and I would want to go this way as well when it's allowed but we aren't allowed to fitt the kitts only licenened companies can fitt them so it will be interesting how much they will charge even thou I am an auto electrician and have built and wired houses to code and over coded I like to be super safe and always over build my systems to last when I fitted my central heating I had to have it inspected and the men that came were in awe of what I had done and said they wouldn't go that far as it would cost a fortune but they were envious of my system this is the way I work so I really love that you guys can build your own as long as you know what you are doing we live in a nanny state here in the UK nowand boy it really bugs guys like me who know we can do a better job than the fitters sent to do the job anyway loved your video seeya tom all the best from john from Warwickshire UK.
Thank you!
That will be great in 5 years when they actually show up at a dealership and a dealership isn't price gouging...don't hold your breath waiting for one.
I'm getting mine at MSRP. There ARE dealers out there selling them at MSRP, you just have to find them.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney any idea Tom when you will actually have it in your hands?
You didn't answer my biggest question... Can I power my house if the power is not out? Can I power my house daily for a few hours during on-peak hours? People have hinted that it is possible but nobody asks or answers that specific question.
I'll ask and get the answer next week. That's what this is for
The IBP is a generator from a National Electric Code (NEC) perspective. Whatever you could do with a generator, you can do with the IBP. In general, generators are connected to an essential loads subpanel that is physically isolated from the main panel by a transfer switch. Accordingly, you can power the subpanel with the generator while powering the main panel from the grid. You cannot feed the main panel simutaneously with the grid AND a generator. Violates NEC and is unsafe for linemen.
(If you really want to connect the generator to the main panel, it is done with a transfer switch upstream of the meter. That may be the SunRun plan. If you go this way, you get the whole house but only at generator power.)
@@evahsia wouldn’t it be possible (generally, not necessarily with this system) to have it wired in such a way as the car acts like a solar array would. that can feed the house simultaneously with some energy with the rest coming from the grid.
@@MrKlawUK Solar power systems have a built-in safety system that prevents the solar panels from turning on (creating voltage) if there is no grid voltage. The system senses the live grid, then turns on (and adds power to the house supply). This prevents the solar power system from back feeding the grid and injuring line workers working on a dead grid.
Generators don't have this feature and therefore require they be physically separated from the grid with a transfer switch. So, the IBP and grid cannot feed the same circuits at the same time. Thus, the need for a subpanel fed from the generator with a transfer switch preventing the grid feeding the subpanel at the same time. (The transfer switch switches the feed to the subpanel from grid to generator.)
I should add that if you have a battery (and expensive controller) in the system, then it is possible to have the generator charging the battery, and the battery supplementing the grid along with the solar array supplementing the grid. Since the battery is DC, there is a natural separation between the generator and the grid (through the AC-DC and DC-AC inverters in the system).
@@MrKlawUK That is a different control mode, specifically "constant-current" versus "constant-voltage" mode. The system would also need to detect when it needs to be "islanded" like your solar inverter does. Not impossible but it is a completely different set of firmware (and a rather tricky change in my experience) as well as a bit more hardware.
The fact the Standard Range will have to pay for this system is ridiculous. This information should have been put out before Ford starting taking orders. Many people have ordered the standard range battery thinking they could use it as a backup if needed and now find out they will have to pay to use this system. Lobe the greed factor of modern companies.
Good information. As I am watching this, my neighbors nat gas powered built in generator kicked on for its weekly "maintenance" run, so I had to turn the volume up. Having your EV power your house instead of buying a generator would be great. Also looking forward to the day all lawn mowers and especially leaf blowers are electric!
Now we just need all barking dogs to get electric..
That needs to be the next electrification: lawn equipment. I hate leaf blowers.
Thanks Tom for this thorough information and making this new world of vehicle to grid understandable. Lots of good questions with solid answers. Excellent journalism.
@@loriallen67 me too the in-laws as a newly wed didn't understand why i wanted a solar panels and or mower as im not a fan of paying for gas ect. but for 2-stroke/nitro ect. RC's i probably will miss it but thats not a every weekend kinda thing
Um er.. I have a really stupid question..
If it has intelligent backup power?
What the fuck charges the truck? Before it charges the house?
What a huge con..
You have to charge the truck before you can run the house.. What a wank...
Starting HVAC compressors can be difficult with peak startup power at multiples of the average power consumption. My heat pump consumes 2 kW for example but starting surge is well over 10 kW I think. So is there a spec on the surge ability of the inverter? I expect it is pretty good, even the onboard inverter for job site power should be able to start a circular saw and such. I have heard skeptics ask about powering arc welders from the onboard inverter for job site power, but that seems like a fairly rare use case compared to air compressors and such. And of course, why not power your house with a cheaper manual transfer switch or two and cord(s) going to the outlets in the truck? Not automatic but if you do not have frequent outages, it is an option.
Ford has an arc welder as an example for powering from the 9.6kw pro power in the back of the truck. So it may be rare, but it seems like they took it into account at least.
One of your best OEM-researched episodes
Thank you!
Thanks wish Ford would post this on their web site.
If I sell my truck does the new owner have to pay Ford to reenable the power out (I.e. is it code matched to my charger)?
Not being able to use my solar to charge the truck in the event of long term outage is disappointing.
Tom Q for Ford: Can we use the onboard power outlets while the truck is level 1 or level 2 charging so at 120 or 240V? Can we use the outlets while the truck is DC fact charging? Lastly can we use the on board AC outlets while the truck is sending DC power to the home sun power inverter in a outage? Thank you.
Yes. The outlets can be used while charging the truck.
I would think there would be some efficiency losses, but if the truck receptacles are convenient, why not?
Tom - you are SERIOUSLY doing great work, my friend. My questions:
What is SunRun’s service area? Will they do installs all over the country?
Will SunRun do service upgrades and main panel upgrades if you needed to wanted to?
Can you use a CCS to Tesla adapter to charge a Tesla using the Ford Pro Charger’s CCS connector?
Do you see manufactures moving towards a kWhs used warranty rather than a mileage warranty in the future with V2H/V2G becoming more and more commonplace (hopefully).
Cannot wait to see these all over North Texas. Game changer on day 1 after the money is spent to make it live.
Oh, one more question about the Ford Charge Station Pro. You mentioned it can be de-rated down to 20-amps, which is similar to their 48-amp unit. My question is: will the Charge Station Pro allow for lesser power selections by both hardware means (e.g. physical DIP switches?) as well as by software/app settings? Some users may want to be able to use a temporary setting of a desired charge rate set to less than the full hardware current setting to not pull a full 80-amps (or whatever the hardware max is set to) and instead just use say a 20-amp charge rate using power from a solar installation on a sunny day? I hope that makes sense.
great questions also wondering if i had 2 charger pro's / level 2-ford one one line can thay target a setting for one bay and a different number for the others bay like how some charges talk to each other for max line use/efficacy? or do i have to do it all at the service panel/in hardware/in 2 different copper lines? as i right now see one vehicle being parked a lot vs the other one being a daily to work and back so it needs more nighty juice than the other truck and one spare plug for tools/a 3d visitor car
An instant classic I can tell already. And first 😎
Great Job on this subject. I already have a GenerLink Transfer Switch for use with my portable generator. I plan on using the the 240v receptacle in the bed for backup. Same plug L14-30.
I am ordering the 9.6KW onboard charger also for emergency home power support with a external RV connector and a transfer switch. Much cheaper and the 7KW output will provide enough power for lighting, sump pump, furnace power and refrigerators (critical loads). I think Tom could do a short video on using the 240 volt output and a manual transfer switch for those who are willing to run a cord and switch a switch :).
Very good video. Thank you Ford for engaging with Tom to get us the information we need.
During the great Texas Freeze-Out we used a portable generator to charge phones and run a couple heaters. The Lightning comes with a built in inverter (2 different capacity versions?) meant to replace a portable generator at a job site. Is it possible to have the truck's inverters on but have the truck secure to where it cannot be driven off? While not as robust of a solution as the Intelligent Backup Power, it would do in a pinch and certainly be safer and less troublesome than a gasoline generator.
Yes, you can turn on and off any of the three zones (bed, interior, MegaPower Frunk) separately whether the truck is running or not. You can use those outlets when the truck is driving and when the truck is charging.
@@chasingcoralMD Thanks! That's perfect.
I see that you also got a test ride in a Lightning. I sure wish they let us film that from inside. It will be hard to get people to believe what that truck can do. All EVs are quick off the line but I was absolutely stunned by the handling.
Does the ford charger pro ‘cooperate’ on the same circuit if you you have, say, two Lightnings and one Mach E on three Ford charge Stations pros but all three on one dedicated 100 Amp Circuit?
Similarly, would the three separate Ford Charge Station Pro EVSEs ‘cooperate’ to know which vehicle to pull electricity from to power the house in the event of a home power outage? Would the EVSEs ‘switch’ from vehicle to vehicle until, say a plugged in vehicle got down to 20% charge reserve for driving that you set it to?
Wish I could find this answer.
Thanks for this information, it really changes my planning, whew no longer looking at a 100A to 400A service upgrade!
I sorta suspect the warranty for powering home will hold. Pulling 9.6Kw a lot and charging back at 19kw should be WAY WAY WAY easier on battery than pulling 100-400Kw out on the roads and then charging at 150Kw at a DC fast charger. So as far as the battery warranty goes...guessing Ford would be happy if you use it more to power house than drive around on long road trips.
It amazes me how much electric Americans use
It is not just electricity that we use lots of, unfortunately.
Hi Tom! Great video! Some more questions for you and Ford on this topic...
- Sunrun doesn't appear to actually _make_ their own solar hardware. Which manufacturer's brand and models of equipment are they planning to provide for the components of the Home Integration System?
- Sunrun is also not located in nor servicing all states. When will the documentation be available for the Home Integration System components for electricians/solar installers?
- Do Ford and/or Sunrun plan to offer a cross-branded solar hardware compatibility guide for existing solar installation owners? (If not, they absolutely should be thinking about this!)
id like more of the wiring diagrams and physical looks / how it's supposedly wired up and how it works the add's was ok but way to fuzzies on the real house 🏡setting it up to work and be 🇺🇸 legal. my installer that i had a bid done for liked enphase 8h inverters ( new for 2021-23 ) aka 240v ac @ max solar line amp's of 220A ish 15kw-20kw system the my 400A main panel so i don't know 🤔if the sunrun use's simar hardware or its a high 800~ voltage dc setup like some of the fronics/Europeanised inverters
More details on installation are definitely needed. For example, does the DC out of the charge station to the inverter run on the same wires that feed ac to to the charge station? If not, what additional wires are needed to run to wherever the inverter is installed?
You're looking at approximately $4000 for the home integration system from Sunrun. I haven't heard what their installation charges will be. Most likely very high. But the Sunrun system should come with instructions for an electrician to install it. Still costly because the line in from the grid will have to be rerouted from the main service breaker to the Sunrun system transfer switch and from there back to the main breaker. There was a comment about some home supply services being as large as 400 amps. I'd be surprised if Sunrun transfer switch would accept the size wire to handle that kind of current. I'm thinking they'll probably have a 200 amp transfer switch in their system. The inverter in their system is also unique as it's input voltage from the truck will be around 400 volts DC. I believe this will be a very costly installation. I would be very interested in hearing from anyone that's had their home integration system installed.
My Generac can provide 18 kW running on NG. Its run time is unlimited. The total cost with transfer switch and professional installation was $10k. And I can drive my vehicle while the Generac is powering the house. The 9.6 kW that can be provided by the truck isn’t going to handle the starting current for my 5 ton main A/C.
Any idea when the installation instructions will be made available for the Charge Station Pro and Home Integration kit? Ford only details a single slide for the Charge Station Pro - not a install manual. I'm sure these documents will cover the nuances of installation - which would be very helpful for circuit planning, etc.
I'm getting a Tesla model 3 and a f150 lighting over the summer. Can I install the ford charger and the Tesla charger to share one 100a circuit, or do I have to run a 100a for the ford and a separate 60a for the Tesla charger?
There is a CCS to Tesla adapter but only on sale in S. Korea for now. Imported units are reported as not functioning here in the US yet. Tesla does say they'll have the connector available in the US 'soon'.
Amazing video, great questions.
Ford have a winner on their hands here. Imagine all those Texans who lost power at the end of 2020 when they have freezing tempratures. Texans love trucks, and after that long power outage event they will really want this truck.
I do have one questions. Say the truck isn't plugged in when the power goes out, maybe I arrive home to a dark house. Can you plug the truck in and have it power the home then.
Yes, as soon as you plug the truck in you can turn on Intelligent backup power.
Seems like a lot of red tape just to back feed some power lol. I guess they cant be liable for killing someone. In winter you should have some non electrical back up heat. Propane. Fireplace. ETC. Truck should run your lights and tv for a week easy. Warm up your hot water when you need a shower but I bet that uses quite a bit of power. It will use about 5500 watts for 1.5hours to heat 50gallons to 140ish. good for a few quick showers.
I’m interested in learning more about the ability to integrate the Ford backup system into my existing solar installation with a SolarEdge inverter. I have 400 AMP service and am about to have an electrician install a dedicated 100 AMP service to my garage. When I installed solar last year I delayed buying a powerwall battery in anticipation of buying a Lightning. My hope is to be able to use the truck to power the house every night and then recharge the truck with excess solar during the day. It sounds like this will NOT be possible out of the box. I understand the concern about battery wear and tear but we’re not talking about that much usage, maybe the equivalent of driving an extra 15-25 miles per day. I hope Ford will reconsider their position.
You could put a manual disconnect on the incoming power and it would react just like in a power outage if you don't mind doing that manually.
Tres bon discussion, Tom - far better than the Ford/SunRun marketing. Hope my installation goes smoothly....
Hey Tom, great video! I have Enphase Solar and Storage so I already have a transfer switch to island my house. Can I use Ford Intelligent Backup Power and skip all the Sunrun equipment?
I'm sure that answer is no. The high voltage battery in the truck cannot connect to your Enphase system, since enphase is microinverter based (AC) and their storage battery is also AC coupled. The truck needs to connect to a conventional high-voltage inverter - that's not something that is exposed with your Enphase system.
Regarding wanting to use your Enphase whole home transfer switch instead of the Sunrun one, I'm sure that would be nice, but not likely they support anything other than the Sunrun equipment regarding that aspect. So sadly you'd likely need both autotransfer switches.
You’re the best at detailed information. Thanks Tom
Thank you!
Thanks Tom, a very informative video. I am a Tesla M3P owner with 13.8kw of solar on my roof in Australia. I am not sure we will see the Ford electric truck here, that said this is a great concept and I would love Tesla to do it; I have had to purchase a powerwall for this flexibility and it is only a 13.6kw battery when I have 75kw sitting in the car unusable!
Hi Adam, I think we will see the Lightning in Australia within a couple of years once supply chain issues work through. The Toyota Hilux is Australia's biggest selling vehicle and if current taxation advantages remain for these types of vehicles the F150 lighting would be a huge seller. Congrats on being a T3 owners. 👍⚡🔋
My question for Ford is why are they charging people to use this feature on the standard range battery, if the feature is already built into the truck and I bought the truck then i should be able to use it without having ti pay extra, and if I do have to pay extra, that cost should be available and made public at the time I ordered my truck, not weeks after orders were made.
What exactly do you claim you were not informed about? Every Ford advertisement (and webpage) has included in the fine print that IBP requires the Charge Station Pro AND additional hardware "to separate the panel from the grid".
So, I am willing to pay the $500 to get the Intelligent Backup Power software activation for my SR Lightning, but can't find where I can do that. Ford's web site says, “Intelligent Backup Power software activation is included with the purchase of the extended-range F-150 Lightning battery or can be bought as a one-time purchase for the standard-range battery here.” The word “here“ is a hyperlink to a page, after signing in, that says “SOMETHING’S NOT QUITE RIGHT, so it's a dead/bad hyperlink. No one in Ford Customer Service that I have spoken to has been able to answer that. Help!
Great Video, however I am concerned about having to use SunRun for backup power, will ford provide schematics for any company or electrician to build the components? Its a monopoly for one company to provide this hardware and unfair!
Excellent work Tom. Need to emphasize that after spending thousands of dollars for backup, it only works if the truck is at home and has a decent SoC. Also many homes will need a secondary panel for BU power to isolate heavy loads. As we go electric many new homes have 400A.
Most heavy loads aren't essential during a power outage, just don't operate high powered devices. Anyway when Ford states the lightning will power the average home for 3 days, they are basing that on a maximum daily usage of 30 kWh. So around 90 kWh of use in 3 days. That would still leave around 41 kWh left in the truck battery. Reducing the load to 10 kWh/day would stretch that to 9 days.
2:29 - and there it is guys, while some dare accuse Tommy Molo' of "not being scientific enough", meanwhile here he is getting to the bottom (and correcting) the whole 320A Service misnomer as originally published by FOMOCO. 👍😎👌 even though it's now been discussed on a few other channels (with no resolution) i already knew if the final clarification was going to happen anywhere...? it would be RIGHT HERE. pfft, these Internet kids just never learn.
So I’m not clear, does Intelligent Backup Power and Charge Station Pro use the same cable and plug into the charging port? Or is backup power AC power coming from one of the 8 AC outlets? If AC is it 40 Amps x 240 volts for 9600 Watts or is it 80 Amps x 120 Volts? Or is backup power delivered as DC then inverted to AC by whatever inverter you use? If supplying DC what is the voltage? Sorry for all of the questions. Thinking about how to integrate into existing solar + battery system. Thank you.
Enjoyed your video and your inside EB podcast. I currently have a generator at my house with a transfer switch. Rather than spend the thousands on the intelligent back up I think a much more economical route is to use the 240v plug in the truck bed to power my house. As far as I can see this would only require me purchasing a longer extension cord that will go between my transfer switch and my Lighting. Is this an incorrect assumption?
Yes, it is a more economical choice for those who already have the connection and transfer switch. A couple of details matter. First, the 240VAC in the bed is only a 30A circuit (7.2kW). This is less than the 9.6kW from the Charge Station Pro + Sunrun inverter.
Second, the connection in the bed is a L14-30 (4-wire L1, L2, N, G). You need a compatible extension cord, and generator inlet. There is no indication a 3-wire (L1, L2, G) circuit would work.
Third, while Ford advertises all day power at a worksite, they haven't committed to the 24 hour (3 or 10 day) constant load, which may not be covered by warranty.
Fantastic video, thank you Tom. Answered many questions I had about this system. Wish my Tesla allowed it
One more thing: Why not use "dumb" (my term) backup power. My plan is to use the Nema 14-30 plug in the bed of the truck and connect to the installed generator switch next to my service panel which I can manually switch over to the needed circuits. If I am home it's no big deal to pull out the extension cord and plug the truck into the generator switch. Only advantage of the intelligent power back is time saved by automatically restoring the power. The truck still needs to be plugged into the charger and If it's not at home there is no backup anyway.
This a great lower cost, easier to deploy solution using the "ProPower Onboard" L14-30R in the bed. What I've read is that the GFCI L14-30 outlet needs a "switched neutral" transfer switch so the GFCI won't trip. Some youTube videos have been trying this out using the "ProPower Onboard" L14-30R on the existing 2021 F150 Hybrid. The Lightning will also have "ProPower Onboard" but I don't know if it will be an L14-30 or L14-50
Greetings from Australia. Thanks for the video, Tom. This answered a lot of questions for me.
Great Video! Thanks for getting this information from Ford.
Tom thanks for putting this video together It was very informative.
Hey Tom. I’m one of the very fortunate people who made the first wave to convert my F150 Lightning reservation to an order! I ordered the extended range Lariat. I have been searching for the very questions you answered in this video as I definitely want the home backup system. Outstanding job and most helpful! BTW, I’m also installing solar in a few weeks so I was especially interested in your questions about integrating solar into the equation. If you’re interested I’ll let you know how my order and equipment install goes. Keep up the great work!
You might look into Sunrun installing your solar to ensure everything will work in unison.
I hold the contract for several counties to install these for ford. Any additional questions you guys have im happy to answer
Can IBP sync with the Utility after going thru the SunRun inverter? Just like solar panels & home backup batteries/powerwalls sync the 60Hz frequency. But if utility drops, all the alternative sources of power drop to not feedback on the utility. A switch to drop out the utility, without being a transfer switch, would be needed for utility safety. Then the alternative sources of power take over. (Hmm, how do three different sources of backup power sync? Vehicle, powerwall, solar?) When the "magic" switch detects the utility is back, the alternative sources of power sync waveforms with it, and the utility connects back. Is there such a thing?
7:40 Really odd section on derating the charging (20a) but allowing the "Charge Station Pro" backup power (100a). Isn't the wiring the same? Diff charging circuit vs power backup? A 100 amp [circuit] wiring size requirement is #4 for copper wires and #2 for aluminum wires. -- P.S. Props for doing this whole video. It was outstanding and overall you explain these topics really well.
I will get complete clarification on that soon. I believe you need to run two feeds. One for charging - that could be a 20-amp circuit. And one for powering the house that goes to the inverter- that would need to support the 40-amps the truck can provide to the home.
9600 watt backup power is only 40 amps AC at 240 V. 100 amp circuit for charging is optional and does let you charge in less than 8 hours even from zero to 100% on the largest battery. But you can charge at 20 amps also, it just implies that it will take 4 times as long. Heck, it will probably even charge at 7 amps, but that could take almost a week.
Great info. Especially that we have a choice of installers other than Sunrun.
From what you’ve told us so far, I’ll probably go for a V2L solution (F-150 Lightning and panel set up to be used as if it was a traditional emergency generator) in the short term. By 2025, there should be more solutions on the market that will make V2H/V2G less complicated.
This seems to be the way to go. Not automatic, but much less expensive. Just install an inexpensive transfer switch, and buy a cable to use between the Ford’s 240 V outlet in the bed and the transfer switch’s generator connector.
@@georgepelton5645 Yep. Can’t wait to see this in operation.
Can’t thank you enough for doing this leg work for us!!!
Hello Tom, Great show. I would like you to interview an Electrical Inspector from the City Building Department and your local Electric power utility provided. This will provide a proper contrast on safe installation methods and power demands available in existing district areas. Also remind your viewers - a heavy fraction of EV owners charge at night-time while they are sleeping. All EVSE shall be inspected for safest and NEC standards are confirmed with an "Approved Green Sticker" 73
Great video, thank you for putting this information out there. They definitely make it not obvious That you’ll need the integration kit separately from the pro wall charger. I figured it was all built into that, too bad.
Finally Real Answers! Incredible work Tom! Thanks for putting this together
Most informative video on this subject. You answered many of my questions. Thank you so much.
Tom now I won’t get the cyber truck no more I’m putting a deposit for Ford Lightning
You could get the Lightning and sell it in 3 years when the Cyber Truck starts production!
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Will CyberTruck have comparable home backup capabilities?
Ford isn't taking deposits for the lightning anymore,they stopped last year when it climbed past 200k.
Has farley changed his mind on that since? 🤔
Tom makes the most informative ev videos on TH-cam.
I use the Emporia Vue 2 energy monitoring in my circuit panels, I can tell how much power I use each day. I really like the system, I mostly got it to see how much power the hot tub is taking in the winter. Also i can tell my peak load and so far i haven't seen peak load over 10kw. Also you mentioned 60 amp(48) EVSE's are $600+, the Emporia Smart car charger is only $400 and can be direct wired for 60amp circuit wiring.
I 2nd the request to review the Emporia charger. I also use the Vue 2 energy montior (several), and it works well. Only issue I see with their charger is it being not UL Listed - only designed per those standards (or so they say on the website). But would love to see the other aspects reviewed, as it does seem like a nice intelligent low cost 48A EVSE.
@@billjohnson3344 yep they built the charger to UL standards but are still in process to get actual approval. Tom has reviewed non-UL listed chargers in the past tho, so just wouldn't get the UL points in his rating scale
You are wrong about the solar the solar won't be able to run along side. If your solar over powers your inverter it will try and backfeed
Tom mentioned a big 'maybe' here. With a full Sunrun system it sounded like this is possible (components likely speak the same language to curtail solar generation output to balance with home usage and truck output). But yes, if the truck can't backfeed any excess solar from non-Sunrun systems, that solar system would have to be disabled when in Backup mode to avoid household equipment damage (all generated power must be consumed somewhere). If this all is true, this system is less capable than a stationary backup system - which will charge the battery from excess solar (a good thing not wasting power, and keeps the balance). It would be disappointing if the Ford solution can't do this given access to the gigantic battery - really just more of a silent generator solution (where you have to disable your existing solar).
Very well explained. I agree there is so much interest in V2H or V2L. On our TH-cam channel we showcased our DIY vehicle to load upgrade to our MG ZS EV and got so many comments and calls. Keep up the great work 👍⚡🔋
Really good information, Tom. We have a 2018 LR RWD M3 and a 2021 LR MY -- both of which we LOVE -- and we have one of the F-150 Lightning trucks reserved. I'm really tempted to sell the M3 to get the LR F-150 Lightning and this was great information toward making that final decision.
Thanks Tom, plenty of great information. The system is quite impressive and well thought out.
I see a Ford Lightning in Tom’s garage sooner than later
Hopefully by June. I already placed my order
Tom - fantastic deep dive into this product and service as there really were a lot of unanswered questions and claims. thanks for your work!!
Tom, Great video, very informative. I had many questions and you and Ford answered them all. Thanks! PS. I do hope that Ford provides better integration with PV solar backup in the future, and also makes the on-board 19 kW charger bi-directional. The latter would save quite a bit by eliminating the need for a separate off-vehicle inverter to power your home.
I have a 13 kw solar system that powers my home, but will have to either reduce the input of my pro charger to use on my solar system else connect it to the grid and leave it set for full 80 amp input. But I will be using the 120/240 charger that comes with the truck to charge using my solar as it only draws 30 amps 240 volts or 7200 watts. On a sunny day my solar batteries are usually topped off by 1 p.m. so I'll still have a few hours of charging available to me. At approximately $.15/kWh it certainly wouldn't hurt to just charge off the grid even cheaper in the winter. I only drive around 100 miles a week so at 2 miles/ kWh that's only $7.50. That's approximately 50 kw so just 2-3 hours of solar would replenish my truck battery at no cost.
🎯
Great video, Tom. Our generator is only 8kw as you’re aware. We have all electric appliances including oven, stove, clothes dryer and of course A/C. Only our heat is not electric, although of course the pump and furnace fan are electric. We can run A/C and either cook, or do laundry with the generator. So the Lightning should have no problem powering the average home.
yeh maybe at your house (so you're not browning out? at all or tripping out any breakers? ) but not so convencted at my place based on quickie nabcan mathematics on 3k sq ft mine
@@richardprice5978 In an emergency it’s not life as usual. You’re not going to have all your lights on, fry eggs, bake a cake, and do laundry all at the same time. The square footage of your house doesn’t matter really, except for maybe central A/C, which you can set higher than normal. You can only be in one room at a time. It’s an emergency, remember. Keeping your heat going and refrigerator running is paramount.
@@petebremy49 well i started out with a main 100A challenger planel ( finishing a 400A upgrade in 2022 so no hot test yet ) and i gets way too hot. as for floor sq foot its a quick and dirty way that electrician's use to compare house's but that doesn't work 80% ish of the time as some use more that others and yes i did try to pick one night/72H to simulate a power outage but for me that's a little hard right now as i have dumb dumb equipment that doesn't measure usages. my range is 60A the main heating is N gas but the blower ist small loading no heat pump for now but should add above ground unit 4ton ( i have a 3ton ac but it's not enough enough and or really doesn't work right ) im not sure if its the best use in a emergency ( heating pumping ) or not as for lighting this house is offal for outside letting in nature aka 💡has to be on to see anything
@@petebremy49 well i don't know about you but in my case if i can/the utility's are on the frizts for more than 3~ days im taking a bath with my N gas water heater and doing my electric washer and electric dryer laundry's. and id expect the others 3 or 4 of us in the house to do that too plus the dishwasher/dishes ect., i have my limits and slob isn't one of those im okay with nothing on you it's a me thing
@@richardprice5978 I never said be a slob, I just said you can’t do everything at the same time. Good luck to you, then.
Great video. Follow-up questions... How does the Home Integration System wire in? The 80A Charge Station Pro needs a 100A circuit, does the Home Integration System also need a separate circuit from the panel? Or does it share that same 100A circuit, and wire up only to the 80A Charge Station Pro? It would seem like some connection between those two is needed - connecting the DC wiring from the vehicle cord to the SunRun inverter? Also still curious on the specs of what the system can provide regarding surge rating - can this setup run typical 3 or 4 ton central home air conditioning?
FWIW he mentions it needs its separate circuit...
Seems to be based on CCS's upcoming V2G functionality.... Which seems to mirror Chedemo... where DC and AC functions are kept separate... Unlike Tesla where DC and AC use the same lines..
And I left a question asking where the DC to AC inversion is done, for its backup power function... But Tom said only the SunRun transfer box is needed... he did not mention their inverter...
@@nc3826 I think it needs reverse power flow to support V2H but not full V2G support. The home is islanded with V2H. V2G implies a lot of coordination with the grid.
@@davidtuttle3429 V2L, V2H and V2G all require "bidirectional" power flow.... Which it will have...(it's not necessary that it be "reversed", on the same circuit),...
And my "CCS V2G" reference was just a conjecture about what "protocols" it uses? Not that its function is to feed power to the grid (even though, it does have the "power circuitry" to do so)....
Sorry to confuse you....
At the end of day Ford is a automaker. They are not a utility company. Therefore, I would not trust anything coming from them when it comes to installing a home charger for an electric vehicle. You have to have a certified electrician assess your residence to determine what your options are and what it would cost to install and get a permit for the installation. It’s an extra cost that varies. Also another thing no one is talking is what will happen with your utility service. Just because you have back up power does not mean you will save money on your bill. In fact it may increase your cost if you have the ability to disconnect from the grid and produce your own power. So check with your provider before pay big 💰 to install the 80 amp system. Man 75k to 100k on average for an F150. The cheap versions are sold out so it will be interesting to see how many people complete their reservations and purchase a lariat or the platinum as Ford has no plan to build the cheaper versions in mass quantity. These trucks are not made to order. They’re made for maximizing profit for Ford.
Solar Panels are DC and Lightning's batteries are DC. Is there a way to connect Solar Panels directly to the Lightning? I prefer not to have to convert the Solar Panel DC to 240V AC just so I can connect an AC Charger to my truck.
Can you skip the whole "Back Up System" n just use your 9.6 kw Truck bed's 32 amp receptacle to power your panel when the grid is out? Use an 6 gauge wire w a 14-50 male on one end and an L 6-30 or 14-30 (which ever adapter need for the receptacle on the bed) male on the other end to draw power from the truck to the panel?
N if so, can you use the entire battery capacity (98 or 131 kw) from those receptacles?
And if it's a "Yes", wouldn't that be easier than spending all that money ($5k+ from Sunrun and $3-4k from dealer) n time waiting for the installation?
I wondered if you could turn off circuit breakers and then add more power to the house/truck
Tom great video - my question is more on V2G capabilities. Is it possible to power my home during the day with the F150 battery during peak electricity and then connect back to grid during off peak? This also aligns with off peak charging incentives.
The truck needs a 100 amp dedicated circuit? Really? We recently installed 10 extra solar panels on our house (we now have 24) and had our main upgraded from a 150-amp service to a 200-amp service. We already have a 50-amp dedicated circuit for our Tesla wall charger. Even with our upgraded service, I don't think there's any way we could add a dedicated 100-amp circuit for the F-150 lightning. Wow. That's disappointing. We do have a gas water heater, gas range/oven, and gas furnace, so maybe that makes it doable?
Could you charge up the truck at a fast charger at the dealer? Then use the charge to power your house?! Reminds me of the stingy villain, Smythe, from the movie "Jules Verne's Rocket to the Moon" 1967 stealing gas from gas lamps using a hose and pump. Swiping $20 of electricity doesn't make practical sense, but it would be something for the LoLs.
is it peak 9.6kW? or is the peak 7.6kW because it's 7.6kW + 2kW? I heard it's a small generator in front and big generator in the back. If we have a 8.5kW peak draw, will the F150 Lightning backup work or not?
Great video.
Do you have to have WiFi for the Charge Station Pro for it to charge normally?
Is charging time programming (ie. charge at night between set hours) set in the vehicle settings, or through charger settings?
Does the Charge Station Pro have a built-in inverter for DC from the vehicle to AC for the house?
What provider is being used in Canada? And also, when does Sunrun anticipate releasing more details of the Home Integration System, including pricing?
Thank you Tom for clearing up the 320a service requirement. Also for other good information. I reserved early and hope to get my lightning before the end of the year. I had recently sold a portable generator I'd had for 6 years and was about to buy a new one with the Lightning was announced. So hopefully no power failures until after my Lightning delivery!
Great video. One update I have is that my system will not automatically backup when grid power goes out. I have to turn it on manually from the in-vehicle settings. I did some research on this problem and it looks like a very common issue if not the only way to use the backup feature. Also, the permitting department and fire department want to do a test of a rapid shutdown while the truck is powering the home. Disconnect of DC under load is not a good idea because the truck will try overcome the disconnect driving more power to the house and cause arcing and power surge in the house... so don't try it. I would love to know how the fire department is supposed to shut down the system in an emergency without causing a fire. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Hey Tom thanks for all that very useful information, I’m considering buying a Lightning in my case mainly because it’s the only one that is capable of doing home back up at this time. My question to you is, would you please let us know when you get pricing on what’s the cost to get the intelligent back up equipment and activation? Btw I’m buying the extended battery lariat trim. Thanks in advance.
Tesla sells their 48-amp Wall Connector for only $425. This is the best deal for a 48-amp home charging solution out there. This is not a bi-directional solution like the horrendously expensive Ford 80-amp connector but I mention it because the Ford 48-amp wall connector was mentioned as costing the same as all other systems on the market (which is not true).
How do I charge my 2024 escape plug in hybrid with my ford 2023 lightning pro charger they don’t have same handle
I can’t imagine the backup power thing will be used to death (warranty covering home backup power)
99% of people will never use this, the 1% that do will probably use it maybe once a year. Sure outliers will exist(off grid workshop maybe) but I’d think it’s worth giving that 0.1% if users to just have free batteries. It will take years to ruin a battery that way anyway.
does driving really pull from the battery differently than using it for other purposes?
I would think the loads would likely be less (but pulled in the same way)
Hello Tom:
My F150 Extended Battery Lariat Lightning order is scheduled to be built the week of 5-16! I’ve watched your awesome TH-cam videos about the Intelligent Backup System. I was wondering if you may be able to get an engineer from SunRun on your channel? I have reached out to them several times asking for info about the hardware they will be selling to make the Home Integration System work with the truck. I can’t get anywhere with them beyond their customer service and general sales agents who are clueless about it.
You have put out really good info about it but I am actually having solar installed in couple of weeks as well. SunRun does not service North Carolina where I live. I wanted to ask them if there is anything my local solar installer needs to do so that I will be able to integrate my solar system in with the Intelligent Backup System?
Nobody seems to know anything about this. All Ford says is that SunRun is their preferred installer and that it will integrate with “their” solar systems. We’ll, what about other solar providers where SunRun does not service?
Thanks for all you do!
You need 100 amp wire to charger, at 80% load gives u 80 amp , so 100 amp is not enough, min200 amp, you keep 100 for the house 100 for the charger
Options to charger circuits
20 amp
30 amp
40amp
Those typical for appliances so you could put those to a charger
I believe the lightning comes with a two chargers 15 amp and 30or 40, get a electrician set up 40 amp circuit you have 220 v 40 amp circuit available at 80% load gives you 31 amps to charge,
I’m sure you are aware but a Tesla CCS Adapter is coming (already available in Korea) so as long as your Tesla is newer (I think it was around 2019/2020+), you should in theory be able to then charge it from the Ford charger.
I believe the 320amp service requirement comes in because of the NEC's 120% rule which states when back feeding a main panel the busbars can not be overloaded by more than 120%. Without getting into the weeds if Ford opens this up to feed power to the grid to reduce your electric bill (which would totally be cool) you could possibly back feed too much power that the main breaker would not see possibly causing a fire. For example if your main panel has a 200 amp breaker and the Ford charger can back feed up to 60 amps there is a possibility of having 260amps total on your main panel's buss bars if your home is using that much power at any given time. In this scenario the breakers would not see it or trip but your buss bars will be feeling it and be heating up. However, a 320amp panel is allowed to have up to 64 amps of back feed. Not confirmed only my guess. It would be interesting if @ford can engineer in a software limiter based on CT readings taken off the mains that way you can swt the back feed limit based on service size of each client. Ford can send a consultation payment my way ;)
Check out "derpy works" video on how he used a manual transfer switch to power his house with his 2021 F-150 Hybrid. I thinks the same applies to the Lightning model. Comments please
Great review. You speak so comfortably. Concerning Battery Backup a good point to make is despite a 30A limit of electricity sent to the house, if you stagger your electrical use you can run a lot of things. It isn't necessary to run the microwave, hair dryer, gas forced hot air blower motor and toaster oven at the same time. Stagger them and the F-150 delivery capability will not be overloaded. Houses have 200A service panels so you CAN run all those things at the same time.
The Lightning being built is like watching paint dry. Bought a F150 Power Boost Lariat Hybrid while I was waiting. It will light my home and I can take it on the road with over a 600 mile range before I fill up in about 5 minute and go for another 600 + miles! Without a charging station on every Corning. My gut feeling is that Electric Cars for everyone may go away after the 2022 Congress Election and the tree hugger leave office!
I’ve come to realize 20k more for a truck that runs on electricity over a similarly equipped gas truck isn’t for me anymore. Sorry, Ford, Chevy and cyber truck. Now about that electric GM backed pontoon, you still got my interest. Limited use boat with a 66 kw battery for weekend leisure is something I can spend money on.
I'm sure the 9600 watts that the lightning is capable of outputting has nothing to do with the power that can be supplied to your house. The reason I say this is when powering your home with the lightning you aren't utilizing the trucks Inverters. The power is coming straight from the trucks battery via the two DC pins on the charge port. The roughly 400 vdc is transferred to the home integration system which contains a 400 vdc input inverter which converts that DC voltage to 240 vac which is then transferred to the service panel via a transfer switch which also disconnects the grid from the service panel. I'm not sure of the amperage but assuming it's close to 80 - 100 amp range, or 19.2 kw - 24 kw output if it was to power the entire home for 3 days @ 30 kw/ day.
Tom don't know if you're still answering these. I just installed the the whole system. I have the Ford Pro 3000 charger and the platinum lightning. The charging station wifi goes on and off all the time, it wont allow me to pair the truck to it, or, consistently show up on the Charge pro app so I can test the intelligent back up system?? Any suggestions??
Please can you comment on the SIZE of the panels for charging system. Sunrun will give me NO information on how large it is and how much roof space it will require. In fact I have to build a structure to put system on BEFORE I take delivery of my truck and they will not tell me what size it needs to be.
Old news as you probably know already but Charge Station Pro is only $1310, SunRun hardware is $3900,
I have solar and I am about to install backup batteries with the goal of being energy independent, and someone suggested the F150 Lightning could accomplish this. Is that correct? Does it have the ability to switch to backup battery with the Home Kit whenever my solar is producing insufficient energy to power my home and drawing from its battery as opposed to drawing from the grid? I'll still be connected to the grid, but the idea is the draw comes first from solar, then battery, then the grid. I haven't been able to find anything addressing this specifically.
If you want to power your home from your truck you will be able to do that with limitations. Those limitations are:
No automatic transfer switching.
Maximum 7200 watts supplied to home from truck.
You will need some sort of transfer switch to avoid back feeding to the grid.
You will need a way to connect the 30 amp receptacle on the truck to your transfer switch.
If you're already setup with a generator you plug into your service.
Then you can used that connection to your truck instead of to the generator.
The simplest transfer switch would be using an interlock in your service panel.
A 30 amp generator breaker located just below your Main breaker.
The interlock will prevent the main & generator breaker from being closed at the same time.
As mentioned above you will be limited to 7.2 kw so you won't be using you electric stove, electric clothes dryer etcetera.
Note:
If the panel you are powering with your truck has the ground tied to the neutral you may get a ground fault error on your trucks sync screen. If you wish to use this scenario for home backup, I recommend you work with a qualified electrician.
Everything about the costs of V2H make having a manual transfer switch and generator receptacle the much preferred option for me. My grid is very reliable - I’d likely never recoup the costs of this system.
Thanks Tom! 👍😃
Hi Tom
This Is lukas my Question is will you charge your ford f -150 Lighting to your house or at a electric station so It can save money, energy, and economy for the world to have?
Thanks Lukas barnes
20A max... using the DCC energy management system for EV's is a great solution to maximize your energy consumption.