I first heard J.P. Moreland at a seminar on Christianity and the Culture in Sacramento in the 1980s. I have been so blessed in my life through the years through his books and lectures and Biola Christian Apologetic conferences. Thank you!
Out-of-body experiences are mind-blowing. Dr. Moreland's mentioning of memories not being specially located with OBEs I think presents an interesting case for the existence of a self outside the material (e.g., "the soul"). Solid points here on the defining limits on the areas of knowledge.
Trying to give Iron Age mythology the stamp of academic rigor is futile. You have to spin, make stuff up, and pretend all kinds of people agree with you who don't. And just because I don't know how the universe came into existence doesn't mean I have to believe in any gods.
Well i would say at least ones who matter seems to agree. Kurt Gödel, greatest logician of all time, one of the most brilliant man who ever lived, being one. But of course he is not only one, Faraday, Newton, Maxwell, Heisenberg, Pascal, Leibnitz, Kant, Descartes, Locke, Hegel etc. Fact that universe was created by an eternal, uncaused cause is very strong proof for Supreme Being, one which atheists , before catholic priest Georges Lemaître created Big Bang theory, wanted so desperately to scape from that they almost all argued that universe was in fact eternal, which is also why they at first rejected BIg Bang theory as it sounded far to much like " let there be light" of genesis. But sure nobody can force you believe no matter evidence, just as no body can force anti vaxxers to do so either.
"For the first time all day, I've had a thought in my mind." Ah, well, I retract my statement that it's all bullshit. I'll give him one thought per day. "We can be aware of things that go beyond our senses." Really? If the senses aren't involved -- how do you determine, what methodolgy do you use, to determine which of two competing (say Christian vs. Scientologist) is the correct one? If you Christians can appeal to woo-woo then so can everyone else. Hold on, hold on, the Holy Meatball just gave me a thought, it's this: Notice how J.P. said, "I'm having a direct experience with this sister's face."? Dude, that's not something to enjoy in public, I mean, nothing wrong with experiencing a chick's face, but you could be a bit more discrete about it.
Calling "atheism" a "world view" is disengenous. Especially the way it's used here (about 3:20). Athiesm is simply not believing in a god or gods ---- J.P. Moreland is an atheist towards 1000s and 1000s of gods, all except a very narrowly defined Christian God. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods or any specific "God" (this technically includes agnostics and many Budhists as well as some that might define themselves as "spiritual"). A "world-view" narrowly defined could include atheism --- but that doesn't say much, does it? Atheists come in all flavors. Putting an umbrella over atheism as a world-view is like saying Christianity is a world-view and leaving it at that....I guess it's okay for 10 year olds, but anyone more sophisticated knows that Christians agree on nothing...zero...there's not one thing that isn't debated in Christianity except maybe that they're not atheists...
"So that ends up meaning that the physical universe is all there is." 11:35 Nope. A false conclusion because it's possible that something else exists, for example, multiple universes, parallel universes, or a level up universe (real or not) that created a simulation in which we live. It's also possible that this physical universe is all that exists (however unlikely) and that one could still use logic and reasoning to form or create ethics without appealing to a supreme being(s). For example, no human being desires to be raped (or coercied in any way --- which is why the Jesus character is so ugly). You cannot desire rape (or murder or theft) because it's a logical impossibility --- if you want someone to have sex with you, it's not rape. If you want someone to kill you, it's not murder. If you want someone to have your shit, it's not theft. Thus, logic and reason can give us these axioms for human behavior: No rape. No theft. No murder. Oddly, perhaps a bit ironically, if you follow J.P.'s God (well, actually his 3 gods, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) you have tons of exceptions to these rules. Murder, rape, theft, slaverly, bigotry, genocide, and many other coercive evils (things all humans find abhorent when done to themselves) are all sometimes totally acceptable, in fact commanded, under the Christian God's rule (if J.P. and others are correct). The reason that naturalist like using the scientific method is that it removes bias and thus you don't have to ponder whether Jesus or Krishna or Allah has given the "right" and "true" message. When J.P. Moreland writes in his latest book that he got a swimming pool via an illegal kickback from a contractor --- a scientific naturalist can say, "that's wrong." He can say it's wrong because coercion is wrong (and J.P.'s contractor used coercion to get J.P. a cheap swimming pool, which is why kickbacks are crimes, at least in the State of California). In J.P.'s world view, God can break any law, do any rape, murder, genocide, and it's fine, just like he can break the kickback laws and use a guy to coerce contractors so that J.P.'s children, rich white kids living in Yorba Linda, can have a cheap swimming pool. If you understand this reasoning, it's easy to see why people hate Christianity as a "world view." It's not only ugly (slavery for example) it's just plain false and easy to falsify via evidence (granted historical evidence is sometimes, maybe often, subject to various interpretations, some things are so obvious that we can safely, if not 100%, call them facts). Christians believe some weird shit, but J.P.'s latest book, where he claims God did a big miracle by saving him for shitty his pants, is up there now on the top of my list.
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
I first heard J.P. Moreland at a seminar on Christianity and the Culture in Sacramento in the 1980s. I have been so blessed in my life through the years through his books and lectures and Biola Christian Apologetic conferences. Thank you!
Out-of-body experiences are mind-blowing. Dr. Moreland's mentioning of memories not being specially located with OBEs I think presents an interesting case for the existence of a self outside the material (e.g., "the soul"). Solid points here on the defining limits on the areas of knowledge.
Thank you for taking the TIME to share and STUDY, just waiting for our world to COME TO AN END
Wow. Just wow
Can you cite just one thing he said that made you say wow?
Trying to give Iron Age mythology the stamp of academic rigor is futile. You have to spin, make stuff up, and pretend all kinds of people agree with you who don't. And just because I don't know how the universe came into existence doesn't mean I have to believe in any gods.
Well i would say at least ones who matter seems to agree. Kurt Gödel, greatest logician of all time, one of the most brilliant man who ever lived, being one. But of course he is not only one, Faraday, Newton, Maxwell, Heisenberg, Pascal, Leibnitz, Kant, Descartes, Locke, Hegel etc. Fact that universe was created by an eternal, uncaused cause is very strong proof for Supreme Being, one which atheists , before catholic priest Georges Lemaître created Big Bang theory, wanted so desperately to scape from that they almost all argued that universe was in fact eternal, which is also why they at first rejected BIg Bang theory as it sounded far to much like " let there be light" of genesis.
But sure nobody can force you believe no matter evidence, just as no body can force anti vaxxers to do so either.
God is real my friend.
@@truettberglund5046 How do you know? Can you give a clear demonstration that the supernatural really does exist, much less any gods and demons?
@@truettberglund5046 Which one? Which god is real? There are so many to choose from.
@@tarp-grommet Notice the silence from the believer.
"For the first time all day, I've had a thought in my mind." Ah, well, I retract my statement that it's all bullshit. I'll give him one thought per day.
"We can be aware of things that go beyond our senses." Really? If the senses aren't involved -- how do you determine, what methodolgy do you use, to determine which of two competing (say Christian vs. Scientologist) is the correct one?
If you Christians can appeal to woo-woo then so can everyone else.
Hold on, hold on, the Holy Meatball just gave me a thought, it's this: Notice how J.P. said, "I'm having a direct experience with this sister's face."?
Dude, that's not something to enjoy in public, I mean, nothing wrong with experiencing a chick's face, but you could be a bit more discrete about it.
Calling "atheism" a "world view" is disengenous. Especially the way it's used here (about 3:20). Athiesm is simply not believing in a god or gods ---- J.P. Moreland is an atheist towards 1000s and 1000s of gods, all except a very narrowly defined Christian God. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods or any specific "God" (this technically includes agnostics and many Budhists as well as some that might define themselves as "spiritual").
A "world-view" narrowly defined could include atheism --- but that doesn't say much, does it?
Atheists come in all flavors.
Putting an umbrella over atheism as a world-view is like saying Christianity is a world-view and leaving it at that....I guess it's okay for 10 year olds, but anyone more sophisticated knows that Christians agree on nothing...zero...there's not one thing that isn't debated in Christianity except maybe that they're not atheists...
"So that ends up meaning that the physical universe is all there is." 11:35 Nope. A false conclusion because it's possible that something else exists, for example, multiple universes, parallel universes, or a level up universe (real or not) that created a simulation in which we live.
It's also possible that this physical universe is all that exists (however unlikely) and that one could still use logic and reasoning to form or create ethics without appealing to a supreme being(s).
For example, no human being desires to be raped (or coercied in any way --- which is why the Jesus character is so ugly).
You cannot desire rape (or murder or theft) because it's a logical impossibility --- if you want someone to have sex with you, it's not rape. If you want someone to kill you, it's not murder. If you want someone to have your shit, it's not theft.
Thus, logic and reason can give us these axioms for human behavior: No rape. No theft. No murder.
Oddly, perhaps a bit ironically, if you follow J.P.'s God (well, actually his 3 gods, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) you have tons of exceptions to these rules.
Murder, rape, theft, slaverly, bigotry, genocide, and many other coercive evils (things all humans find abhorent when done to themselves) are all sometimes totally acceptable, in fact commanded, under the Christian God's rule (if J.P. and others are correct).
The reason that naturalist like using the scientific method is that it removes bias and thus you don't have to ponder whether Jesus or Krishna or Allah has given the "right" and "true" message.
When J.P. Moreland writes in his latest book that he got a swimming pool via an illegal kickback from a contractor --- a scientific naturalist can say, "that's wrong." He can say it's wrong because coercion is wrong (and J.P.'s contractor used coercion to get J.P. a cheap swimming pool, which is why kickbacks are crimes, at least in the State of California).
In J.P.'s world view, God can break any law, do any rape, murder, genocide, and it's fine, just like he can break the kickback laws and use a guy to coerce contractors so that J.P.'s children, rich white kids living in Yorba Linda, can have a cheap swimming pool.
If you understand this reasoning, it's easy to see why people hate Christianity as a "world view." It's not only ugly (slavery for example) it's just plain false and easy to falsify via evidence (granted historical evidence is sometimes, maybe often, subject to various interpretations, some things are so obvious that we can safely, if not 100%, call them facts).
Christians believe some weird shit, but J.P.'s latest book, where he claims God did a big miracle by saving him for shitty his pants, is up there now on the top of my list.