The dark lines at the end of the video (and other parts) are my camera's sensor overheating. I use a Nikon D5300 and it is not "meant" for video. So it isn't well suited to the task. I'll just preempt some comments by saying, no I cannot actively cool the camera in any way. Cold boxes for stellar photography are the closest I could get, but that isn't a real solution for having to shoot video all the time. It would be extremely impractical.
@@dhowser2008 Are you sure? I used Load"$",8 on mine and didnt have any problems that I remember (It was 25 years ago though...) :) I only used ,1 to load games that needed it.
@@keithdunn521 , you are correct. LOAD "$",8 is the correct syntax for loading the directory. Adding ,1 to this statement can result in a garbled screen as the ,1 command tells the computer to load to the specified address saved in the program. Since the directory is not a valid "program", the computer has no idea where to load it. The "Device not Present" error has nothing to do with the load command issued and everything to do with a faulty chip. Regards.
@AkBKukU Contrary to your last line, a video about debugging old hardware without solving it at first try is pretty good. Not every case of repair needs to be sugar coated to be enjoyable to follow.
Well, yeah, but if you are emotionally invested in this (and I presume most of us here are), you can feel almost the same frustration as the author had. :) And, unfortunately, not everyone can consciously differentiate the source of it... Fortunately, as of now, most viewers are happy with what they saw. :)
Flame Well, his videos are not just about entertainment, but also learning. Many people will learn very much in these videos, and when its a failure usually they learn more. And this wont be a single part video, it will likelly have a part 2, where he probably adresses a mistake or something he passed through and didnt see. And probably show some extra content there. You learn with what he did right, like the latch, like the painting, but also learn with for example the tinning wich isnt the best option to make contact, and also with what he didnt do so well, or a mistake he could have made.
I have! I own two Commodore 64's, both fully functional. (Well, one's a C64, the other's a 64C.) On the C64, when it heats up, the SID chip pops out of the socket, and the computer crashes. I was able to fix it with an old Lego. I just took a rasp and filed it down to the right height, then glued it to the top of the SID chip so that when the case is closed, it puts enough pressure on it to keep it in the socket. Problem solved. :)
What you need is a Dead Test Cartridge! It will test all chips, and show what is working properly and what isn't. They are pretty cheap on Ebay and very useful to have :) It's been a long time since I powered on my 1541, but I'm pretty sure the power light normally blink when powered when not connected to a computer.
You mean the diagnostics ROM + harness (recently reproduced as "check64"), which requires a lot of the computer to be working already ... dead test can be useful when you get a black screen, but fails with indepth diagnostics.
@@RogerBarraud Hi Roger, If you remember I used to repair those things, a long time ago. I might have a circuit of a clone version at least. Somewhere.
Here in Europe, especially in the former eastern block like Hungary, the datasette was the goto storage device for the c64. The floppy drive was really expensive, so not many people had it.
Here in the United States a lot of the toy stores and retailers had C64 packages with the disk drive bundled. My parents got a C64C and the newer 1541 drive for like $199 in 1987 (well after the C128 and Amiga released). In North America the best games and software came on floppy disk. The 5.25" floppy is ubiquitous with 1980s computing in America. Of course the following year my dad realized how out of date the C64 was and bought an IBM AT clone....with 20MB hard drive and you guessed it...a 1.2MB 5.25" floppy drive. Ironically copying disks and games happened far more with that IBM compatible than the C64. Was a lot easier with a DOS PC that had a fixed disk. Not so much on the C64 :D
As a 10 year old in Turkey, I remember saving money for 2 years straight, so I could afford a 1541-II. I'm pretty sure it was more expensive than the C64 itself.
The 1541 is really a computer all by itself with a 6502 and two 6522 VIA chips a ROM and 2K of RAM. Taking chip count and the drive mechanism into account, along with the beefy transformer and chassis, it almost certainly cost more than the C64 to manufacture.
I would have also painted it with some Rustoleum or something equivalent to prevent rust. I don't know that a clear coat would stop rusting under the clear coat.
cb meeks Well... If you sanded down the rust off, it wouldnt have any rust process anymore. The clear coat would insulate the metal from the air, so air wouldnt get in contact with the metal again, thus stopping rust.
This might be useful for future repairs but I discovered that the plastic of c64's (and a lot of old home consoles too like the NES) can be repaired using Tamiya modellers plastic cement, it's about the same price as super glue for a huge quantity given how little you need. It takes longer to bond than super glue but it reconnects the pieces on a molecular level so strongly that it's often the case that if it does break again it'll break somewhere entirely different, if applied cleanly you can sometimes get it to look as if it never broke in the first place. For screw posts and any part of a casing that is likely to be stressed this kind of repair is massively more preferable as super glue gets increasingly more crystalline and brittle as it ages or gets hot and cold.
And if thats not possible, or the material is different you can aways use cotton with superglue to create this sort of fiberglass. It seems to be strong too
@@blackterminal lol ... according to a quick youtube search part 2 still doesn't exist. gotta love it when people release a part 1 then never follow up and don't even bother to change the title of the first & only video
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but the "Device not Present" error can be caused not only from a faulty CIA #1 (U1), faulty 6510 CPU or resistors at R28, R29, and R30, but can also be caused by a bad 7406 Logic chip (U8). This chip is soldered in and not part of the standard chips to swap when troubleshooting. Disregard the comment about the 7406 logic chip if your board assembly is 250469. Great video.
This video was awesome! Having problems, failing at something makes you many times learn even more! And actually, you can even make watching a paint dry interesting, dont worry about that.
Did we ever get a part 2? I was bored re-watching older videos and I realized I don't remember there being a part 2 and I couldn't find it in the video listing. If we didn't I think it's a tad overdue isn't it? I want to see him fix the shell and superglue and baking soda the front and see it reading disks. I know this moment in time isn't the best time with all that's going on behind the scenes but I hope it's at least on the near horizon. Thanks for being awesome.
peripherals can (and they have been developed that way) be plugged in and out while the computer is on (joysticks, printer, disk drives); cartridges on the other hand are a sure risk of frying your logic board and/or the cartridge itself if you insert or remove them from the expansion ports
I really liked seeing how you diagnosed the issues on this Commodore. As a repair technician I really appreciate seeing how people figure out what is wrong with something. Keep up the good work and I can't wait for your next videos!
I became an expert on Commodore stuff around age 10. My school had upgraded from C64's to Apple IIGS's but there were never any good games to take advantage of the IIGS -- just crappy old MECC stuff and other things for the //e. I found copies of Pole Position, that Super Mario knockoff, and others for the C64. Somehow I became somewhat popular during the winter months because I figured out how to play video games in school. Never being a very social social person I preferred the machines instead of people during recess -- the Commodores in particular. We had stacks of classic C64s and a few 128s, 1541 and 1702 drives, etc. I'd take them apart, figure out what was wrong, swap components around, even met my first girlfriend this way by showing her electronics. In the end my principal sold me every system (including the 1702 monitors) for $1/piece. Also... The appropriate drive for your C64 would be the 1541 mk II. It matches the case and might be easier to repair should you get the serial working. Great video as usual!
Maybe not a total expert but I know my way around these things. Drilled holes to solder leads for ,8 and ,9 selection switches in and have done PSU repairs in many of these and other old drives. The Atari 1050's were real turds.
Thank you for including all the experiments, troubleshooting, and issues. It's really great to see somebody going through the same sorts of issues most of us deal with when restoring hardware, rather than everything working perfectly after a montage. Warts and all, makes for a nice video. 👍
If he records onto a camera and then pull data from the sd card from the camera, the SD card is probably dying. South Main Auto Channel also had a video with pink lines and that was due to a dying SD card
It could be a connection issue like a cable, could be a glitch in the processing codec, it could be a overhead in the sdcard speed when recording, it could be a faulty camera, faulty sd card, it could be corruptiom when passing to the pc, it could be a problem in blender rendering, maybe a cpu usage spike of some sort, it could be many things actually
I'm watching this in March and I enjoyed this video! You working on old stuff is enjoyable and fun even if you don't succeed. Just watching someone who knows what he's doing troubleshoot is good content and fun!
Dude the video was great! Just because you didn't fix it doesn't mean it was bad. The information was good and it shows the troubleshooting process. Keep up the great videos! Wish I still had some of the old PCs I used to play with years ago - sadly they got recycled :-/
I went out and bought an older Commodore 64 and two 1541 Floppy drives(both drives were from different people in different states initially looked good both powered up but one would spin a disk the other would not)none have been tested and a 1702 Monitor which is tested is coming next week so your video is very helpful from a troubleshooting standpoint. I would say the best thing I took away from this is to really make sure all connections are solid. In Adrian's Digital Basement he has a video where he got a C64 to work that had been protected by ants it was rusted and dirty and been in a field for decades and he got it to work.
Thanks for posting this. I'm sorry you didn't get it working but the way you presented everything just had me laughing the whole time, especially that chip that leaped from its socket. Pure gold 🤣 Better luck with part two.
This video was GREAT! I am a huge fan of the Commodore 64, it was my first computer and I still play on it from time to time. Your frustrations with it all just made me laugh out loud, so thanks for sharing!
What I have done in the past with repairing plastic parts on C64/1541 cases is to use Cyanoacrylate (SuperGlue) and layer very small strips of tissue paper across the break into the drying glue. This forms a reinforced bond, like fiberglass. It can be quite tricky to do, but the resultant bond ends up being VERY strong.
I didn't like that chassis tinning at all, screw thread would do the job just fine, and ensure good contact with chassis ground. Second thing is - you had the donor C-64, so you had the spare serial connector, why didn't you use it? Last thing - de-soldering pump you're using really is a garbage. I mean - I had worse, but this isn't any good. I know a very good pump, but it is local Polish product - it is called ZEL OD-25. If you're really into THT repairs, you should consider buying ZD-915 de-soldering station or something similar.
Checked those solder suckers out, really nice set of them in this video. Included a anti-shock version too. Never knew solder suckers could come in such variety. th-cam.com/video/1j-UpjzKBVM/w-d-xo.html
Was a followup video made to this? I'd love to see that 1541 working. I just repaired three this weekend. lol. Well, the first one I repaired was technically a VIC-1541 but that's still a 1541.
31:52 It turns on and seems normal, but if you look closer, cursor does not blink. C64 KERNAL(or maybe BASIC) uses timer in one of the CIA chips to blink cursor.
The second CIA chip is what controls the serial ports. you should focus on the second one to troubleshoot. Also, look at the C64 wiki, you can find a ton of info on everything on the computer there. Good luck!
Have a pair of 1541's under my C64. One works okay. The other one is a recent purchase from an 'antiques and collectable' store. Managed to purchase it for $15. Owner of the store mentioned it was "NOS". (actually....no) But it did have the transport card in place and is in amazing condition. It works 100%.
Great video ! I've sen that you helped Adrian Black with his power suply adapter for his 5150. Thanks for another great video. Keep them comming please :)
14:50 my guess? its the rust under the zinc coated steel. and since you abraded the zinc coating away it exposes the rusted steel underneath it. hence why you cant remove it no matter how much u scrub it
I have a C64C somewhere, disassembled, that allegedly had some bad something on it. Never fixed it. I'd ship it your way if I can find it, I'll keep my eye out next time I'm in storage.
I have the same drive and i wzs measuring the voltages and suddenly a rectifier blew up, the room full of smoke, 1 of yhe 2 pin round ones with thepassive cooler blew up. On the left rectifier i am measuring 3,3 volts dc and the right one 19 volts dc?
Around 1985, I accidentaly became a small town part-time tech for fixing Commodore 64s and the notorious 1541 disk drives. The guy who sold them locally gave me a service manual folder for the 1541 (I think it's still downstairs somewhere in the electronics dungeon) and it has all the schematics, the step by step fault guide including a couple of programs you typed in to help (if the drive was cactus) and more importantly there were alignment disks with sinewaves recorded on various tracks so you could step it out from the end stop and look with a CRO at the incoming waves from the head. The biggest fault for the 1541 at the time was copy protected games chattering the head up against the end stop. Those games would just bash the stepper up against the stop for a while as a part of the protection. Unfortunately, the stepper shaft was just press fitted on to the cog attached to the metal band and it would move. The permanent cure was to remove the stepper and drill a pin through the shaft and cog to lock it into position then rotate the motor till the waves looked right again. Did that to around 100 of them.
Barkeeper's friend contains oxalic acid, any acid will cause etching of oxidized metal. Many rust treatments are based on phosphoric acid, which converts iron oxide into iron phosphate, a dark gray/black substance. White vinegar will also convert rust into a dark gray schmutz, I assume it's iron acetate, since that's acetic acid.
For future projects consider using a galvanizing spray. It’s varying percentages zinc, shocking I know, and as a bonus it’s conductive although most ground will use a star washer that will scratch the paint.
I like the sped up parts of the process, most content creators just talk about their process with incremental shots but this way it has way more continuity
@@TechTangents It's one of the parts that will most likely survive the transplant - I wouldn't worry too much as long as your soldering technique is good (i.e. quick, so you don't overheat the connector while removing it in particular).
I suspect the black in the corners of the drive cage is where the metal plating is peeling away, but that’s exposed metal and could use that sealer. And the solder isn’t trying to stick to the paint, it’s not hot enough on the metal and those are ‘cold’ solder joints. It’ll probably be fine.
Might i suggest a dead test cartridge and loopback harness assembly to check all the ports on the 64c? Further, Howard Sams published some really excellent repair documentation on these units and you can find them on the web without much difficulty.
For that metal case I would suggest metal polish- works WAY better than the stuff you had- for such light stuff you might even get away with "brasso" or "silvo"
I film most of my videos on one day, sometimes two, and rarely three. My filming area is the only work space I have and is where I edit. So if I stop on a project to buy a part and wait for it to be delivered then I have to completely pack the project back up and put it away so I can work on something else. So when I'm missing one cable, a capacitor, a driver, etc I don't like to stop and wait and pack everything up before I continue. If I can continue with something I have on hand, I will.
Lol, I've enjoyed it, you've put a lot of time into this, no doubts, and hopes you got the raspberry thing to work so you have a "100% known good device" to "debug" with!
When you clear-coat, why not use some screws, nylon washers, and nuts, and cover the holes you want use as the chassis ground? Seems like it would be a lot less of a pain than breaking out the soldering iron and glopping on solder.
I got up early today. Then I've found this video (came here from the super glue and baking soda trick video). Now I know what to do for the pre-work relax. :) PS.Subscribed. Because your channel deserves at least this. :)
Soldered ICs had the legs snipped at the factory from beneath the board after soldering.. that's why the legs are so short compared to factory socketed ICs.
I'm actually completely ok with videos that detail debugging and failures. It not only helps you but us as the viewers to give us experience in what not to do or what steps that go nowhere. Some of this can probably be applied to other projects somehow as well. Sometimes things don't go according to plan and I'm completely ok with that. As long as you say it's a part 1 of it. That way it signals people that the finished product won't be in this video.
Back in the mid 1980's I was doing component level repair of C64 and 1541 drives. If I got a C64, first thing I would do was socket the ROM. Then I had a special ROM with some really low level diagnostics. For 95% of all repairs, I found there to be one of three problems. The 6510 processor, a PLD chip or one of the 64x1 DRAM s. The diagnostics had one test that would blink an output on the user port at about 1 Hz. I had an LED I would plug into the user port. If it blinked, that established that I had a clock and a working processor. Then I checked the memory. There were 8 64x1 DRAM chips. The memory test would indicate which one failed. If the processor and memory were OK, it was better than even odds that the PLD chip had gone bad. For the remaining 5%, I just the replaced the board. I was thinking of getting a digital logic analyzer but I finally just gave it up. For the 1541's I got an exerciser. The 1541 didn't have a home position sensor so to move the head to the zero position, it would run the stepping motor the full number of steps in reverse. So for a certain number of steps it would "bump" against the zero position stop. After time, I think the stator would become magnetized enough so that it would be a step off even after trying to bump the head to the zero position. The solution was pretty simple. Unbolt the step motor and turn it 90 degrees. Then it would zero. That seem to fix the problem on most 1541's. Then I would charge customers 40$ to "repair" their 1541. $40 was usually what I charged to repair a C64. Once all they wanted was a new C64 case. I asked, "what happened to the old case". They said it was destroyed as the result of a karate chop. I had a few extra cases lying around so I sold them one. After about a year of repairing Commodore equipment, this is basically everything I learned.
I really enjoyed this video, and it's funny bc these things happen to me all the times where I can't know for sure what is wrong and I'm doing nothing in reality but I actually enjoyed and learned seeing you. I actually love Commodore but I don't have any Commodore hardware (yet), I'd love to have anything, a c64 or something (and I'm like you, not wanting to pay ship costs for these things bc they weigh a lot) but where I live, microcomputers weren't a deal at all, so, it's very difficult to spot one, and when one shows up like on ebay near me, its like a fully restored one and they ask some hundreds of euros, so, still hoping to find one on my local 2nd hand store tbh. Looking forward for part 2.
All the other usual suspects treat these old C64's like they're holy relics, this bloke pokes it with a stick and speaks his mind. A different take is sometimes refreshing.
I appreciated this video... last weekend i attempted to replace the Bounres filters in my mac SE because it wouldn't read or format floppy disks but was perfect in every other way. The only thing i succeeded in doing is making it completely unstable and prone to crashing ARGH. Sometimes this is just how it is.
Interesting that "cmd3" would work as well. I remember using "cmd4" but I saw another guy print something with 3. I also thought the "open" was something like 4, 4, or 4, 4, 4, but this other guy used 3, 4 also. I think it's weird that we should have to open the channels for printing or for advanced disk commands anyway, rather than just having them open by default, because even with them open already, the stuff doesn't go to the printer until you "cmd3" or "cmd4" anyway. And with the disk drive I never needed to use the close command to help anything, even though they have it, so I don't see the point of that.
@@AltMarc Well, if I understand right, the default device number for printers is 4, but you can have one on 3 too. I'm not sure why the instructions a guy got on another video said to use "cmd3" and it just worked. And I bet he did look it up here online. Sometimes that does work. I don't know where the device number jumpers in the printer are like I do in the old 1541. But how would you know about _this_ printer here?
@@HelloKittyFanMan. I could explain it better 35 years ago !, but 3 is used internally: www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Serial_Port At these times you were happy to have ONE printer, so the jumper thing (if ever) was very rarely a matter, go with 4 at 99.99% chance, plotter had 5 if I remember correctly... If you speak (at least read) German. here you find every - anything about VC20-C64 internals: www.64er-online.de/download/index.html BTW: 1986-02 page 93: all about the CIA=6526 in details
13:37 I usualy sand-down these kind of surfaces wich wont need much beaty with maybe a 1000 grit sandpaper or if its too bad a 400 or so. Then i cover it in a clear coating. Usually i sand the whole unit covered or submerged im water to avoid that metal deposit. If i need a grounding point on any part like a screw whole, i usually scrape a bit of the coating off and put some tin with my soldering iron on it so it wont rust but alsp be conductive.
Keep in mind you have two of the 20-30+ million Commodore 64's made. Granted, that's 100% of all C64's from your perspective, but to say they are poor is misleading to someone who isn't familiar with them watching your channel. I could also say that the 5 Commodore 64's I have (that all work) means they are all stellar from my perspective. We would both be wrong. Don't give up hope on the C64. There's a reason they made 30 million of them. Despite their issues. And, if you really want to see a troublesome Commodore line, try repairing any of the TED based units.
Nostalgia! Definitely enjoyed. I might dig out my old Amiga 2000 and see if she boots! C64's long gone...wish I still had them. BTW, I have about 600 1.44 floppies with Amiga software on them, wonder what I could do that is useful with them?
That disk drive was in pretty rough shape. I suspect it has a bad head because the resistors and wires are supposed to be covered in epoxy, not exposed. Someone has already been in there. I have 2 of those drives, and one of the heads went bad after sitting for 10 years, the other one miraculously still works.
where you tried to lay down solder for grounding, consider removing ALL coatings from the metal for the solder - use something like a dremel and wire brush or grinder to get to raw metal. then use some flux too. cheers.
You have 2 of the 466 boards! These boards are considered the best as they output the clearest picture. They are also quite rare. Try my Pi1541. The 7406 (or 7416) on the 64 could be the problem.
The dark lines at the end of the video (and other parts) are my camera's sensor overheating. I use a Nikon D5300 and it is not "meant" for video. So it isn't well suited to the task.
I'll just preempt some comments by saying, no I cannot actively cool the camera in any way. Cold boxes for stellar photography are the closest I could get, but that isn't a real solution for having to shoot video all the time. It would be extremely impractical.
You are supposed to use Load "$" ,8,1 when loading from the 1541.
@@dhowser2008 Are you sure? I used Load"$",8 on mine and didnt have any problems that I remember (It was 25 years ago though...) :) I only used ,1 to load games that needed it.
@@keithdunn521 I always used Load "*",8,1 myself. picked it up off a random game disk label and just went with it.
@@keithdunn521 , you are correct. LOAD "$",8 is the correct syntax for loading the directory. Adding ,1 to this statement can result in a garbled screen as the ,1 command tells the computer to load to the specified address saved in the program. Since the directory is not a valid "program", the computer has no idea where to load it. The "Device not Present" error has nothing to do with the load command issued and everything to do with a faulty chip. Regards.
@@Blink_____ or ,9 if my memory serves me right, with a second Diskdrive.
@AkBKukU Contrary to your last line, a video about debugging old hardware without solving it at first try is pretty good. Not every case of repair needs to be sugar coated to be enjoyable to follow.
Agreed
Agreed!
Well, yeah, but if you are emotionally invested in this (and I presume most of us here are), you can feel almost the same frustration as the author had. :) And, unfortunately, not everyone can consciously differentiate the source of it...
Fortunately, as of now, most viewers are happy with what they saw. :)
Flame Well, his videos are not just about entertainment, but also learning.
Many people will learn very much in these videos, and when its a failure usually they learn more. And this wont be a single part video, it will likelly have a part 2, where he probably adresses a mistake or something he passed through and didnt see. And probably show some extra content there.
You learn with what he did right, like the latch, like the painting, but also learn with for example the tinning wich isnt the best option to make contact, and also with what he didnt do so well, or a mistake he could have made.
I agree, with the promise of part two it's totally fine. :)
I've never seen a chip jump out of its socket before.
it's afraid!
Neither did, what type of sorcery is this?
i have. Trick is to form a small nylon zip-tie underneath the socket and use pliers to make it as tight as possible.
It must have had an electric shock.
I have! I own two Commodore 64's, both fully functional. (Well, one's a C64, the other's a 64C.) On the C64, when it heats up, the SID chip pops out of the socket, and the computer crashes.
I was able to fix it with an old Lego. I just took a rasp and filed it down to the right height, then glued it to the top of the SID chip so that when the case is closed, it puts enough pressure on it to keep it in the socket. Problem solved. :)
What you need is a Dead Test Cartridge! It will test all chips, and show what is working properly and what isn't. They are pretty cheap on Ebay and very useful to have :) It's been a long time since I powered on my 1541, but I'm pretty sure the power light normally blink when powered when not connected to a computer.
You mean the diagnostics ROM + harness (recently reproduced as "check64"), which requires a lot of the computer to be working already ... dead test can be useful when you get a black screen, but fails with indepth diagnostics.
@@1337Shockwav3 Ah, yes you are correct!
Dead Test Redemption?
;-)
@@RogerBarraud Hi Roger, If you remember I used to repair those things, a long time ago. I might have a circuit of a clone version at least. Somewhere.
Here in Europe, especially in the former eastern block like Hungary, the datasette was the goto storage device for the c64. The floppy drive was really expensive, so not many people had it.
Used to be the same in Germany, til the price dropped ... at the beginning the 1541 was more expensive than the computer itself.
Here in the United States a lot of the toy stores and retailers had C64 packages with the disk drive bundled. My parents got a C64C and the newer 1541 drive for like $199 in 1987 (well after the C128 and Amiga released). In North America the best games and software came on floppy disk. The 5.25" floppy is ubiquitous with 1980s computing in America. Of course the following year my dad realized how out of date the C64 was and bought an IBM AT clone....with 20MB hard drive and you guessed it...a 1.2MB 5.25" floppy drive. Ironically copying disks and games happened far more with that IBM compatible than the C64. Was a lot easier with a DOS PC that had a fixed disk. Not so much on the C64 :D
In the US, the floppy was king. We almost never saw cassette tapes for any computers.
As a 10 year old in Turkey, I remember saving money for 2 years straight, so I could afford a 1541-II. I'm pretty sure it was more expensive than the C64 itself.
The 1541 is really a computer all by itself with a 6502 and two 6522 VIA chips a ROM and 2K of RAM. Taking chip count and the drive mechanism into account, along with the beefy transformer and chassis, it almost certainly cost more than the C64 to manufacture.
for grounding points I would have sanded the paint off around the area you intended to place solder.. just the way I'd do it.
And add some tin using a solderong iron so the contact wont rust again.
I would have also painted it with some Rustoleum or something equivalent to prevent rust. I don't know that a clear coat would stop rusting under the clear coat.
cb meeks Well... If you sanded down the rust off, it wouldnt have any rust process anymore. The clear coat would insulate the metal from the air, so air wouldnt get in contact with the metal again, thus stopping rust.
@@eduardoavila646 Did you not watch the video?
@@cbmeeks Fishoilene FTW!!11!!
:-/
This might be useful for future repairs but I discovered that the plastic of c64's (and a lot of old home consoles too like the NES) can be repaired using Tamiya modellers plastic cement, it's about the same price as super glue for a huge quantity given how little you need. It takes longer to bond than super glue but it reconnects the pieces on a molecular level so strongly that it's often the case that if it does break again it'll break somewhere entirely different, if applied cleanly you can sometimes get it to look as if it never broke in the first place. For screw posts and any part of a casing that is likely to be stressed this kind of repair is massively more preferable as super glue gets increasingly more crystalline and brittle as it ages or gets hot and cold.
OMG thank you so much for the info, I didn't know about it and I really need this for a lot of projects
If it's ABS acetone would probably work as well.
Acetone makes ABS brittle
And if thats not possible, or the material is different you can aways use cotton with superglue to create this sort of fiberglass. It seems to be strong too
ThePillenwerfer It would melt a bit, it could end up very brittle
Where's part 2?
Denied.
@@blackterminal lol ... according to a quick youtube search part 2 still doesn't exist. gotta love it when people release a part 1 then never follow up and don't even bother to change the title of the first & only video
I feel like this is the first unboxing video I've seen that featured the contents of the box being poked with a stick :D
"Mostly Harmless"
:-)
That part was genius-level comedy. Totally casual delivery too.
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but the "Device not Present" error can be caused not only from a faulty CIA #1 (U1), faulty 6510 CPU or resistors at R28, R29, and R30, but can also be caused by a bad 7406 Logic chip (U8). This chip is soldered in and not part of the standard chips to swap when troubleshooting. Disregard the comment about the 7406 logic chip if your board assembly is 250469. Great video.
This video was awesome! Having problems, failing at something makes you many times learn even more!
And actually, you can even make watching a paint dry interesting, dont worry about that.
Did we ever get a part 2? I was bored re-watching older videos and I realized I don't remember there being a part 2 and I couldn't find it in the video listing. If we didn't I think it's a tad overdue isn't it? I want to see him fix the shell and superglue and baking soda the front and see it reading disks. I know this moment in time isn't the best time with all that's going on behind the scenes but I hope it's at least on the near horizon. Thanks for being awesome.
34:33 Aaiieee! Don't plug anything in to a C64 while the power is on! That's exactly how CIA chips die.
Where did he do that in the video?
@@RogerBarraud Er, at the time reference mentioned.
Ironically I've seen people do that dozens of times (including myself by accident) yet no dead CIAs so far.
@@1337Shockwav3 99 times out of a hundred it works. The 100th you get a damaged CIA
peripherals can (and they have been developed that way) be plugged in and out while the computer is on (joysticks, printer, disk drives); cartridges on the other hand are a sure risk of frying your logic board and/or the cartridge itself if you insert or remove them from the expansion ports
The number "1541" will always be special to me because of using this drive back in the 80s.
I really liked seeing how you diagnosed the issues on this Commodore. As a repair technician I really appreciate seeing how people figure out what is wrong with something. Keep up the good work and I can't wait for your next videos!
Except FAIL :-/
I became an expert on Commodore stuff around age 10.
My school had upgraded from C64's to Apple IIGS's but there were never any good games to take advantage of the IIGS -- just crappy old MECC stuff and other things for the //e. I found copies of Pole Position, that Super Mario knockoff, and others for the C64. Somehow I became somewhat popular during the winter months because I figured out how to play video games in school.
Never being a very social social person I preferred the machines instead of people during recess -- the Commodores in particular. We had stacks of classic C64s and a few 128s, 1541 and 1702 drives, etc. I'd take them apart, figure out what was wrong, swap components around, even met my first girlfriend this way by showing her electronics. In the end my principal sold me every system (including the 1702 monitors) for $1/piece.
Also... The appropriate drive for your C64 would be the 1541 mk II. It matches the case and might be easier to repair should you get the serial working.
Great video as usual!
LOL - a friend of mine met his wife because she heard he could fix transistor AM radios :-)
"became an expert ... around age 10"
No, you didn't.
Maybe not a total expert but I know my way around these things. Drilled holes to solder leads for ,8 and ,9 selection switches in and have done PSU repairs in many of these and other old drives.
The Atari 1050's were real turds.
Thank you for including all the experiments, troubleshooting, and issues. It's really great to see somebody going through the same sorts of issues most of us deal with when restoring hardware, rather than everything working perfectly after a montage.
Warts and all, makes for a nice video. 👍
34:43 what's up with the video quality ? do you have a radioactivity problem ?
some weird purples stuff is showing up on the video
It actually has a cyberpunk-like aesthetic so, not complaints haha
If he records onto a camera and then pull data from the sd card from the camera, the SD card is probably dying. South Main Auto Channel also had a video with pink lines and that was due to a dying SD card
That camera's about to go; he addressed that issue in a previous video...
It could be a connection issue like a cable, could be a glitch in the processing codec, it could be a overhead in the sdcard speed when recording, it could be a faulty camera, faulty sd card, it could be corruptiom when passing to the pc, it could be a problem in blender rendering, maybe a cpu usage spike of some sort, it could be many things actually
Well.. looking into akbkuku's comment, its actually the camera overheating
I'm watching this in March and I enjoyed this video! You working on old stuff is enjoyable and fun even if you don't succeed. Just watching someone who knows what he's doing troubleshoot is good content and fun!
Dude the video was great! Just because you didn't fix it doesn't mean it was bad. The information was good and it shows the troubleshooting process. Keep up the great videos! Wish I still had some of the old PCs I used to play with years ago - sadly they got recycled :-/
I went out and bought an older Commodore 64 and two 1541 Floppy drives(both drives were from different people in different states initially looked good both powered up but one would spin a disk the other would not)none have been tested and a 1702 Monitor which is tested is coming next week so your video is very helpful from a troubleshooting standpoint. I would say the best thing I took away from this is to really make sure all connections are solid. In Adrian's Digital Basement he has a video where he got a C64 to work that had been protected by ants it was rusted and dirty and been in a field for decades and he got it to work.
Thanks for posting this. I'm sorry you didn't get it working but the way you presented everything just had me laughing the whole time, especially that chip that leaped from its socket. Pure gold 🤣
Better luck with part two.
This video was GREAT! I am a huge fan of the Commodore 64, it was my first computer and I still play on it from time to time. Your frustrations with it all just made me laugh out loud, so thanks for sharing!
Is there a part 2 to follow soon? :o
+1 for part 2 question
Perfect timing with this video. I've got a 1541 and 1571 that are partially working I need to fix.
The potted power supplies on these are ticking timebombs.
There's people that make replacement power supplies, thankfully.
@@IanC14 lots of replacement power supplies of the exact same design (7805)
What I have done in the past with repairing plastic parts on C64/1541 cases is to use Cyanoacrylate (SuperGlue) and layer very small strips of tissue paper across the break into the drying glue. This forms a reinforced bond, like fiberglass. It can be quite tricky to do, but the resultant bond ends up being VERY strong.
I didn't like that chassis tinning at all, screw thread would do the job just fine, and ensure good contact with chassis ground. Second thing is - you had the donor C-64, so you had the spare serial connector, why didn't you use it? Last thing - de-soldering pump you're using really is a garbage. I mean - I had worse, but this isn't any good. I know a very good pump, but it is local Polish product - it is called ZEL OD-25. If you're really into THT repairs, you should consider buying ZD-915 de-soldering station or something similar.
I was not feeling the chassis tinning either. Cringe. I still love this channel, though. :)
*NEVER* trust solder under an Earth (Ground) lug... the solder compresses over time and the lug loosens... and that is *DANGEROUS* :-(
Checked those solder suckers out, really nice set of them in this video. Included a anti-shock version too. Never knew solder suckers could come in such variety. th-cam.com/video/1j-UpjzKBVM/w-d-xo.html
@@RogerBarraud exactly.
Was a followup video made to this? I'd love to see that 1541 working. I just repaired three this weekend. lol. Well, the first one I repaired was technically a VIC-1541 but that's still a 1541.
31:52 It turns on and seems normal, but if you look closer, cursor does not blink.
C64 KERNAL(or maybe BASIC) uses timer in one of the CIA chips to blink cursor.
It's just not that ... the left CIA also controls !IRQ effectively causing the machine to hang.
Dude! I love your sense of humor! Don't loose it: 0:47! Great video!
Curious if there was ever a part 2 of this?
The second CIA chip is what controls the serial ports. you should focus on the second one to troubleshoot. Also, look at the C64 wiki, you can find a ton of info on everything on the computer there. Good luck!
Fwiw, Ray Carlsen has excellent repair guides for these machines.
Have a pair of 1541's under my C64. One works okay. The other one is a recent purchase from an 'antiques and collectable' store. Managed to purchase it for $15. Owner of the store mentioned it was "NOS". (actually....no) But it did have the transport card in place and is in amazing condition. It works 100%.
Great video ! I've sen that you helped Adrian Black with his power suply adapter for his 5150. Thanks for another great video. Keep them comming please :)
Why use solder to try to reset the electrical connectivity of the chassis after painting, when you could just use a file or/and sandpaper?
14:50 my guess? its the rust under the zinc coated steel. and since you abraded the zinc coating away it exposes the rusted steel underneath it. hence why you cant remove it no matter how much u scrub it
I enjoyed it in that I could well relate to your mounting frustration and inability to confirm anything is working because of lack of parts.
I have a C64C somewhere, disassembled, that allegedly had some bad something on it. Never fixed it. I'd ship it your way if I can find it, I'll keep my eye out next time I'm in storage.
Hahaha, what a gem of a video.
40 minutes of repair to repair nothing, must have been AMAZING to edit it
oh yeah, it was fun. I started out with 3 hrs of footage.
What a gem of a comment.
You must be AMAZING at parties...
:-(
I have the same drive and i wzs measuring the voltages and suddenly a rectifier blew up, the room full of smoke, 1 of yhe 2 pin round ones with thepassive cooler blew up. On the left rectifier i am measuring 3,3 volts dc and the right one 19 volts dc?
Around 1985, I accidentaly became a small town part-time tech for fixing Commodore 64s and the notorious 1541 disk drives. The guy who sold them locally gave me a service manual folder for the 1541 (I think it's still downstairs somewhere in the electronics dungeon) and it has all the schematics, the step by step fault guide including a couple of programs you typed in to help (if the drive was cactus) and more importantly there were alignment disks with sinewaves recorded on various tracks so you could step it out from the end stop and look with a CRO at the incoming waves from the head.
The biggest fault for the 1541 at the time was copy protected games chattering the head up against the end stop. Those games would just bash the stepper up against the stop for a while as a part of the protection. Unfortunately, the stepper shaft was just press fitted on to the cog attached to the metal band and it would move. The permanent cure was to remove the stepper and drill a pin through the shaft and cog to lock it into position then rotate the motor till the waves looked right again. Did that to around 100 of them.
That was a fun video, seeing the whole process is always fascinating.
Barkeeper's friend contains oxalic acid, any acid will cause etching of oxidized metal. Many rust treatments are based on phosphoric acid, which converts iron oxide into iron phosphate, a dark gray/black substance. White vinegar will also convert rust into a dark gray schmutz, I assume it's iron acetate, since that's acetic acid.
WD40 works for that and doesn't etch the metal.
For future projects consider using a galvanizing spray. It’s varying percentages zinc, shocking I know, and as a bonus it’s conductive although most ground will use a star washer that will scratch the paint.
creates a non-conductive coating. no good.
Have you done a part 2 of this? I couldn't find any.
I like the sped up parts of the process, most content creators just talk about their process with incremental shots but this way it has way more continuity
Don't feel bad about this video man, failures(or non successful attempts) are just as important to show as the perfect "I fixed it!" videos.
10:11 a mains filter cap inside the power socket did fail on my pal unit
...and Relevance failed on your comment.
How do you get off the rf shield? I tried solder whick and a solder sucker but it didn’t work
Doesn't have a spare DIN connector....just finished showing us the donor C64C.... :-D
I want to make the donor work again someday, so I don't want to just harvest it for parts completely.
@@TechTangents I assumed as much, I just wanted to be that guy that points out the obvious :-)
@@TechTangents It's one of the parts that will most likely survive the transplant - I wouldn't worry too much as long as your soldering technique is good (i.e. quick, so you don't overheat the connector while removing it in particular).
I suspect the black in the corners of the drive cage is where the metal plating is peeling away, but that’s exposed metal and could use that sealer. And the solder isn’t trying to stick to the paint, it’s not hot enough on the metal and those are ‘cold’ solder joints. It’ll probably be fine.
is your Camera ok ? i see black Horizontal lines on the Video (33:53 )????
definately the left cia chip was working in all cases, as when it was removed the cursor didn't blink. but it did blink for all 3.
Might i suggest a dead test cartridge and loopback harness assembly to check all the ports on the 64c?
Further, Howard Sams published some really excellent repair documentation on these units and you can find them on the web without much difficulty.
great vid because seeing you try and error - this helps a lot of us
33:27 - Is there some kind of distortion in the video?
For that metal case I would suggest metal polish- works WAY better than the stuff you had- for such light stuff you might even get away with "brasso" or "silvo"
You can also leave the case submerged in wd40 with a bit of water for 24 hours. That helps remove dust without causing the metal to develop patina.
Try a magic eraser
I have a unitrex 1200 would it have the chip you were talking about?
your William Shatner impression is spot on
i wonder if lanotec would help protect it ?
Why would you build a 6-pin DIN cable when you could probably just buy a handful of them, or even just 1, on ebay?
I film most of my videos on one day, sometimes two, and rarely three. My filming area is the only work space I have and is where I edit. So if I stop on a project to buy a part and wait for it to be delivered then I have to completely pack the project back up and put it away so I can work on something else.
So when I'm missing one cable, a capacitor, a driver, etc I don't like to stop and wait and pack everything up before I continue. If I can continue with something I have on hand, I will.
@@TechTangents
Haha, OHH, interesting. Thanks!
Lol, I've enjoyed it, you've put a lot of time into this, no doubts, and hopes you got the raspberry thing to work so you have a "100% known good device" to "debug" with!
When you clear-coat, why not use some screws, nylon washers, and nuts, and cover the holes you want use as the chassis ground? Seems like it would be a lot less of a pain than breaking out the soldering iron and glopping on solder.
Was part 2 never made???
onwards and upwards dude! you only get better if you try new things and persist! keep at it!
I got up early today. Then I've found this video (came here from the super glue and baking soda trick video). Now I know what to do for the pre-work relax. :)
PS.Subscribed. Because your channel deserves at least this. :)
Soldered ICs had the legs snipped at the factory from beneath the board after soldering.. that's why the legs are so short compared to factory socketed ICs.
How do you accidentally make a power cable? Is this the sort of thing that happens to electrical engineers?
I'm actually completely ok with videos that detail debugging and failures. It not only helps you but us as the viewers to give us experience in what not to do or what steps that go nowhere. Some of this can probably be applied to other projects somehow as well. Sometimes things don't go according to plan and I'm completely ok with that. As long as you say it's a part 1 of it. That way it signals people that the finished product won't be in this video.
Tails19935 Yeah, sometimes we learn more with the failures
Agree wholeheartedly ... it's all good... the more 'reality' the better.
Frustration is *always* a part of learning.
No pain, no gain.
my drives work with standard midi 5 pin din cables ??
Back in the mid 1980's I was doing component level repair of C64 and 1541 drives. If I got a C64, first thing I would do was socket the ROM. Then I had a special ROM with some really low level diagnostics. For 95% of all repairs, I found there to be one of three problems. The 6510 processor, a PLD chip or one of the 64x1 DRAM s. The diagnostics had one test that would blink an output on the user port at about 1 Hz. I had an LED I would plug into the user port. If it blinked, that established that I had a clock and a working processor. Then I checked the memory. There were 8 64x1 DRAM chips. The memory test would indicate which one failed. If the processor and memory were OK, it was better than even odds that the PLD chip had gone bad. For the remaining 5%, I just the replaced the board. I was thinking of getting a digital logic analyzer but I finally just gave it up.
For the 1541's I got an exerciser. The 1541 didn't have a home position sensor so to move the head to the zero position, it would run the stepping motor the full number of steps in reverse. So for a certain number of steps it would "bump" against the zero position stop. After time, I think the stator would become magnetized enough so that it would be a step off even after trying to bump the head to the zero position. The solution was pretty simple. Unbolt the step motor and turn it 90 degrees. Then it would zero. That seem to fix the problem on most 1541's. Then I would charge customers 40$ to "repair" their 1541.
$40 was usually what I charged to repair a C64. Once all they wanted was a new C64 case. I asked, "what happened to the old case". They said it was destroyed as the result of a karate chop. I had a few extra cases lying around so I sold them one.
After about a year of repairing Commodore equipment, this is basically everything I learned.
I really enjoyed this video, and it's funny bc these things happen to me all the times where I can't know for sure what is wrong and I'm doing nothing in reality but I actually enjoyed and learned seeing you.
I actually love Commodore but I don't have any Commodore hardware (yet), I'd love to have anything, a c64 or something (and I'm like you, not wanting to pay ship costs for these things bc they weigh a lot) but where I live, microcomputers weren't a deal at all, so, it's very difficult to spot one, and when one shows up like on ebay near me, its like a fully restored one and they ask some hundreds of euros, so, still hoping to find one on my local 2nd hand store tbh.
Looking forward for part 2.
I wanted to see the cleaning part too
i know skandinavian countries have un-keyed wall outlet.. so if anyone use two power bricks, they can be unmatched pair and damage the computer. 22:46
Nice video man! I would perhaps suggest using some CA kicker to instantly set the super glue.
All the other usual suspects treat these old C64's like they're holy relics, this bloke pokes it with a stick and speaks his mind.
A different take is sometimes refreshing.
I remember fixing that latch pin on a couple drives I had back in the 90's. It can work itself out even when the drive isn't dropped.
I appreciated this video... last weekend i attempted to replace the Bounres filters in my mac SE because it wouldn't read or format floppy disks but was perfect in every other way. The only thing i succeeded in doing is making it completely unstable and prone to crashing ARGH. Sometimes this is just how it is.
Interesting that "cmd3" would work as well. I remember using "cmd4" but I saw another guy print something with 3. I also thought the "open" was something like 4, 4, or 4, 4, 4, but this other guy used 3, 4 also. I think it's weird that we should have to open the channels for printing or for advanced disk commands anyway, rather than just having them open by default, because even with them open already, the stuff doesn't go to the printer until you "cmd3" or "cmd4" anyway. And with the disk drive I never needed to use the close command to help anything, even though they have it, so I don't see the point of that.
You are right the printer was on 4 and not on 3. He could have looked it up on the internet....
@@AltMarc
Well, if I understand right, the default device number for printers is 4, but you can have one on 3 too. I'm not sure why the instructions a guy got on another video said to use "cmd3" and it just worked. And I bet he did look it up here online. Sometimes that does work. I don't know where the device number jumpers in the printer are like I do in the old 1541. But how would you know about _this_ printer here?
@@HelloKittyFanMan. I could explain it better 35 years ago !, but 3 is used internally: www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Serial_Port
At these times you were happy to have ONE printer, so the jumper thing (if ever) was very rarely a matter, go with 4 at 99.99% chance, plotter had 5 if I remember correctly...
If you speak (at least read) German. here you find every - anything about VC20-C64 internals:
www.64er-online.de/download/index.html
BTW: 1986-02 page 93: all about the CIA=6526 in details
Is there a part 2?
Great video, as usual. Keep 'em coming!
Did you ever do part 2 ?
I seem to be having similar luck with old Matsushita / Creative optical drives.
I enjoyed it anyway because knowing what doesnt work (trial and error) is always needed during troubleshooting
I really enjoyed the part about the disk retention rod.
part 2? when maybe?
13:37 I usualy sand-down these kind of surfaces wich wont need much beaty with maybe a 1000 grit sandpaper or if its too bad a 400 or so. Then i cover it in a clear coating.
Usually i sand the whole unit covered or submerged im water to avoid that metal deposit.
If i need a grounding point on any part like a screw whole, i usually scrape a bit of the coating off and put some tin with my soldering iron on it so it wont rust but alsp be conductive.
Dang dude, that's tough. Hope you get stuff sorted out.
Haha, wow, that's crazy about the power supplies. I never pictured having to plug 2 power plugs in to run the same computer!
thanks you helped me repair my 1541. Greetings from Germany
flashing cursor disappears when the left cia chip is unplugged. that's the keyboard controller
Keep in mind you have two of the 20-30+ million Commodore 64's made. Granted, that's 100% of all C64's from your perspective, but to say they are poor is misleading to someone who isn't familiar with them watching your channel. I could also say that the 5 Commodore 64's I have (that all work) means they are all stellar from my perspective. We would both be wrong. Don't give up hope on the C64. There's a reason they made 30 million of them. Despite their issues. And, if you really want to see a troublesome Commodore line, try repairing any of the TED based units.
MOS and Mostek are two different companies. Also if you have a VIC20 you can test the drive with that.
If his VIC20 was still working, which he said in the video that it is not.
Nostalgia! Definitely enjoyed. I might dig out my old Amiga 2000 and see if she boots! C64's long gone...wish I still had them. BTW, I have about 600 1.44 floppies with Amiga software on them, wonder what I could do that is useful with them?
That disk drive was in pretty rough shape. I suspect it has a bad head because the resistors and wires are supposed to be covered in epoxy, not exposed. Someone has already been in there. I have 2 of those drives, and one of the heads went bad after sitting for 10 years, the other one miraculously still works.
Try using acetone as a welding solvent for ABS. Just absolutely keep it away from the visible parts of the case!
where you tried to lay down solder for grounding, consider removing ALL coatings from the metal for the solder - use something like a dremel and wire brush or grinder to get to raw metal. then use some flux too. cheers.
You have 2 of the 466 boards! These boards are considered the best as they output the clearest picture. They are also quite rare. Try my Pi1541. The 7406 (or 7416) on the 64 could be the problem.