I test the Verum 1 Planar Magnetic headphones for listening and production

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
  • I'll tell you my opinion on the looks, quality, comfort and sound of the Verum 1 headphones. And then I'm going to let you hear them. But how can I do that through TH-cam?
    DAVID MELLOR'S MUSIC
    David Mellor's music on Bandcamp - davidmellor.ba...
    David Mellor's music on Spotify - open.spotify.c...
    Available on all good streaming services
    LINK
    Verum Audio www.verum-audi...
    CREDIT
    Loudspeaker drive unit - Svjo CC BY-SA 3.0
    Dummy head www.neumann.co...
    EQUIPMENT USED TO MAKE AUDIO MASTERCLASS VIDEOS
    CAMERA - Sony Alpha A6600 amzn.to/3uj7Dtq
    COMPUTER - Apple Mac Mini M2 Pro amzn.to/47tW6Wg
    MICROPHONE - Sennheiser MKH 416 amzn.to/3QWWvuO
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    HEADPHONES - Sony wired amzn.to/3sEjlht
    SPEAKER CABLE - KabelDirekt amzn.to/3ucgQ6T
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    GREEN SCREEN - Elgato alternatives amzn.to/3SG2F3L
    DESK - FlexiSpot E7 Pro amzn.to/3QVIWvS
    VIDEO EDITING - Apple Final Cut Pro www.apple.com/...
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    Disclaimer: Videos on this channel may include affiliate links and may feature software that has been received free of charge with an NFR (not for resale) licence, equipment that has been loaned or donated by a manufacturer or distributer, or equipment that has been bought for less than full retail price.

ความคิดเห็น • 103

  • @NicoJeanRas
    @NicoJeanRas 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Your show getting better by the day, great stuff.

  • @VerumAudio
    @VerumAudio 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +43

    Thanks both for your praise and criticism. And yes, my supply of fancy looking black anodized screws was emptied. And during a war it's not the easiest task to get such things. But recently I got some and couple of weeks production units are with good screws.
    p.s. Not, it's not a real wood. It's a texture made by aquaprint method. But I'm glad you had doubts ;)

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      You're welcome. I'm sure these headphones will make further appearances in my channel.

    • @VerumAudio
      @VerumAudio 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@AudioMasterclass And I hope that this headphones will help you in your work. Thanks again, mr. Mellor.

    • @ronmiller6344
      @ronmiller6344 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I received the Carbon Black version a couple of months ago. They are comfortable and sound great, representing good value. They are not quite up to the sound-performance level of my Aryas, nor should they be. Happy with my purchase.

  • @lights80088
    @lights80088 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Everytime I watch one of your videos, I'm always in 100% agreement. We are either spot on or way off, lol.

  • @brrryan2908
    @brrryan2908 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I LOVE my Verums far more than any my previous headphones. They are my "mini Magnepans." :)

  • @alien2306abc
    @alien2306abc 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    You can use cables that fit denon ah-d 9200 as replacements.

  • @Hypurr1
    @Hypurr1 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Love my Audeze planar magnetic headphones. Mine are closed back so I can take them with me.

  • @scottlowell493
    @scottlowell493 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I was one of the original purchasers when they were introduced. I found them quite good, especially for the price. Most of the sub-$600 planars i listened to were lacking. They tended to easily run out of gas, or have a steeply rolled off treble and no impact.
    The Verum 1 compete with planars in the $800-$1200 bracket.

  • @hartyewh1
    @hartyewh1 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'd say these are clearly on the enjoyment side of things since the soundstage is essentially an effect that likely has little place in the mixing workflow. Sundara would be better for work, but for enjoyment it's very much a personal preference thing.

  • @andymouse
    @andymouse 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Lol ! Did you see the headphone stands for sale on their site ? a very miserable Mr Putin at the Hauge ! interesting video....cheers.

  • @luisportela3500
    @luisportela3500 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Extraordinary pair of headphones. Ordered mine in jan 23 and Igor told me they'd arrive 6-8 weeks later, and so they did. Clear across the frequency range. No bleeding between bass, mids and treble. Comfortable. I can wear it for hours on end w/o any fatigue. It looks as if sound came into focus across the board. Just love them. Doesn't exagerate anywhere in the frequency range neither bassy nor shouty or piercing my ears with boosted treble, yet clear (said it before haven't I?). Just great. Prefer them over my Focal Elegia's. The left face plate bent a bit as if it were a tad bigger than the circular "woody" ring. Totally recommend them. Truly outstanding.

  • @twowheelmacneil
    @twowheelmacneil 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    "Unless your head grows" 😂😂😂. Best line in the video, in my opinion. Really enjoy your videos, keep them coming!

  • @vendelius
    @vendelius 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I Always enjoy your videos... thank you

  • @MyouKyuubi
    @MyouKyuubi 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You know, you don't actually need those heads, to record a decent demo of headphones... You just need to buy some wearable binaural microphones, that allow you to use your OWN HEAD as the testing head.
    They're reasonably cheap too, 'bout the same price as a sennheiser headphone, 200 dollars-ish, i think... If i remember correctly, that is. >_>
    There's another youtuber that does that... i forget what he's called, and my subscription list is so vast i don't even know where to look, lol... Gimme a moment to skim through real quick...
    Ah, "Oluv's Gadgets" is the youtuber i speak of, not only does he test headphones using his binaural microphone earbuds, but he also tunes IEM's.
    Anyways, those types of binaural microphones that he uses, should be affordable! :]

  • @jimawhitaker
    @jimawhitaker 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    You're actually very likeable brother keep on keeping on ;-)

  • @john8451
    @john8451 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    On the Verum website, those rough Posidrive screws are replaced by small Allen bolts!

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Aha. A much better choice.

    • @john8451
      @john8451 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AudioMasterclass I assume that the promo photo was taken before you were sent your headphones (assuming you received yours reasonably recently) so it looks like they are shipping them with the screws that your pair were supplied with. Considering the rest of the build quality, they do make them look cheap. Given that they are manufacturing these in a war zone I can forgive that and replace them myself with M3 allen machine screws.
      (yes I am going to order a pair!)

  • @flash4973
    @flash4973 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i'd love to hear your take on the ZMF auteur classic !!

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You'll get it when they send me a pair for free.

    • @flash4973
      @flash4973 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      oh woaw, why is that ? @@AudioMasterclass

    • @ianhaylock7409
      @ianhaylock7409 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@flash4973 Feel free to send him a pair.

  • @hartyewh1
    @hartyewh1 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Heads growing is a known issue in the hobby so certainly a minus😅

  • @marklloyd5275
    @marklloyd5275 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think they sound angdlic . Much like your voice

  • @ManoelNunesOSan
    @ManoelNunesOSan 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Actually, "Verum" is an adjective and should be more accurately translated as "true", not "truth", wich in latin translates to "Veritas".

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Tell that to Google translate translate.google.co.uk/?sl=la&tl=en&text=verum&op=translate

    • @rickbrookes9491
      @rickbrookes9491 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AudioMasterclassYou have to love TH-cam comments that start with,”Actually …” 😂

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@rickbrookes9491 I like to be educated and if it's actual education then so much the better.

  • @carlsitler9071
    @carlsitler9071 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Open back planars are killer. I have the Monolith M570s. My closed back are KRK KNS8400. My IEMs are the Fearless S8s. Noise canceling are Soundcore. Plus an old Beats, Hifiman, 7hz Zero, KZ CRN and Sony. Add them all up and I'm still under $1000.

    •  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yep I got some drop X4 on sale for $80. With EQ I like them better than my DT880s

  • @kontrolenthusiast1099
    @kontrolenthusiast1099 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Igor kickstater for updated/new model Verum 2 a few weeks ago, far surpassed goal and is currently active for additional backers.

    • @richardelliott8352
      @richardelliott8352 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I am awaiting the verum 2 as I write this, , and I am expecting a removable outer cover to give both open and closed use.

  • @artem_melnyk108
    @artem_melnyk108 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for reviewing these great headphones. Greetings from Ukraine. Thank you for your support and help.

  • @marcob.7801
    @marcob.7801 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This man MUST be related ( somehow) to Paul McCartney!

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Am I Paul McCartney? Related to him? Or am I even Eric Idle? Find out here - th-cam.com/video/aB3JNivlMnI/w-d-xo.html

  • @imsk111
    @imsk111 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I got mine after a little more than 2 months. After I submitted the order I received an email saying, be patient, it will take a while until they will be produced and shipped. After about 9 weeks I got an email from Igor, informing me about the shipment and 4 days later the package arrived in Germany. Great sound with more low end compared to my Hifiman Edition XS. Soundstage is good but not as wide as the Hifiman a little more intimate. Overall a very enjoyable experience. I am driving them with the EarStudio ES100. Sound is great specifically in this price range. Thanks to Igor and the Verum Team and good luck and hopefully peace soon!!!

    • @anria.5371
      @anria.5371 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Which headphones do you prefer more for listening to music Verum or Hifiman?

    • @imsk111
      @imsk111 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ⁠Depends a little on the music. I would think that for acoustic instruments and classical music I prefer the Hifiman whereas for rock, pop, … Verum would be my favorite (a little warmer, bassier). The Hifiman is the more analytical one also providing a little more air and space. Comfortwise and regarding overall fit the Verum wins.

  • @jasonbrookshier
    @jasonbrookshier หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love the depth of your review, but the music example towards the end was horrible. Either way, thanks for the information.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good news! I'll be releasing an album of my irritating unboxing music later this year!

    • @jasonbrookshier
      @jasonbrookshier หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AudioMasterclass Haha! I'll buy the first copy. ;)

  • @julesbarry2081
    @julesbarry2081 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Half a kilogram... lol.

  • @carminedesanto6746
    @carminedesanto6746 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    GM from Toronto ☕️❄️❄️
    These days headphones and IEM’s are my choice for enjoying my music.
    Bryston headphone amp.
    LCDX and Sen’s 650’s ..and I’m good 🙂

  • @MC-jv6fs
    @MC-jv6fs 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Dear Mister Mellor- it took some months for me to understand in frames your ambition in music. I am a bit confused, because of some missing links for my brain to put it all together: so here is my basic question towards you: why you share this "one-eye-symbolism" in your thumbnail in your music-channel? I know the meaning, and i just want to be sure about it. In any way it is in my way to get deeper in your compositions. They seem to be a bit under-rated.Or to be true non-rated, perhaps of this kind of ironic tone which sometimes is too iconic in my ears. Although your name must have a golden fluid in your business.

  • @RudieVissenberg
    @RudieVissenberg 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I also own a pair of Verum 1 headphones and I am also very pleased with it but I get the impression that a better amplifier would do the Verum 1 even more justice. Can I ask which amplifier you used?

    • @sebguyader
      @sebguyader 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I've owned these headphones for almost 1 year now. First I used the Headphone output of my sound interface (Presonus 1824c) but most interfaces don't play well with headphones with an impedance as low as the Verum 1. So I bought a Topping A30 Pro and I'm very satisfied. Plenty of power and a great match with low impedance headphones. The Topping headphone amps are great.

    • @hoth2112
      @hoth2112 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      They are low impedance headphones, so you ideally need an amp with plenty of power and a low output impedance (1 ohm or lower). We get 10-12 pairs every few weeks and I use the Massdrop/Grace Designs O2+SDAC to test every pair we get in and it's a fantastic combo. We also have a Schiit Fulla 2 in the shop and it doesn't sound nearly as good as it simply lacks the power the Verums really need to sound their best.

  • @Synthematix
    @Synthematix 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I paid 40 quid for a pair of SAMSON SR850 headphones, no joke they beat my sennheisers that cost just over 3 times the price by a MILE

    • @jasonemanuel9070
      @jasonemanuel9070 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I remember reading the specs for them a couple of years ago, I think I will give them a try

  • @LanceGreidet-bi9zk
    @LanceGreidet-bi9zk 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Verum 1 headphones need some power for them to sound really good & for the price you can't go wrong I've ordered the verum 2 I can't wait to get them I'm going to start a collection of verum headphones they are a good product

  • @mypetdrgn
    @mypetdrgn 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love your vids, how ‘bout showing some love to your “unboxing hands” and consider the what colors are accentuated by the light being used😮😊

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I might be starting a skincare channel soon.

    • @mypetdrgn
      @mypetdrgn 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AudioMasterclass 🤣😂. Love your wit and your channel

  • @qbabyrolfe
    @qbabyrolfe 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Excellent video. I always enjoy your intelligent and witty commentary. I do have a question about the product. I tend to be on the warm side and I was wondering if you could comment on whether or not they made your head warm after extended listening? Given the rather wide looking leather headband, it looks like they might. Thanks!

  •  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    These are only 8 ohm headphones so need to be driven from an amplifier that won't run out of current too easily. I wonder how well they'll work with my BTR7. The focal clear doesn't work well on my btr7. The bass is slow muddy.

  • @Starchild670
    @Starchild670 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Will these sound good with my vinyl?

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Depends on taste but I’d be very surprised if they didn’t.

  • @curtiscroulet8715
    @curtiscroulet8715 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hmm. I'm not sure that I hear what you hear. I'm listening to this demo with HifiMan Sundara headphones, which add or subtract their own attributes from the sound.

  • @thexfile.
    @thexfile. 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've had Sennheiser open-back headphones and there wasn't any sound pressure. I'm back to my old Sony MDR V6 headphones.

  • @ricktotty2283
    @ricktotty2283 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Open backs , Grados. Close back, B&o. -Chinese really.

  • @kendalljenkins9938
    @kendalljenkins9938 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My "Technics, Minifon P55 Plexi" doesn't have a headphone jack, and I exclusively use a "Technics, Minifon P55 Plexi". For a true audiophile such as myself, wire recording is the only way to truly experience music in the way the artist intended. I listen on my Vintage Grundig Raumklang Model:GD1445 Stereo Hi-Fi Floor Speakers. For the distinctive audiophile ear that I have, no speaker made after 1960 and outside of Germany will suffice.

    • @MC-jv6fs
      @MC-jv6fs 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Funny.But Grundig made some speakers afterwards, still at the level of nowadays "high-end" needs. If u can get a middle-price 3way speaker of Grundig with calottes for mid and high, you just need the right equalizing in your room to enjoy pure sounds , that none of the 2-way high end speakers nowadays can offer. Sad and funny, at the same time.

  • @SubTroppo
    @SubTroppo 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    For me headphone comfort is the main priority. It really doesn't matter how good they sound if after thirty minutes of listening I can no longer keep them on the old noddle. This is why if find myself with cheap earbuds which do not intrude int the ear-canal and which I can easily forget about if there is no audio.

  • @rene_magritte
    @rene_magritte 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I see the membrane is rather wrinkled? Is that normal?

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I’d need even stronger reading glasses to be sure but I think what we see here is the coil embedded in the diaphragm.

  • @summersky77
    @summersky77 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    They sound about as good as they look...and that's no compliment.

    • @MyouKyuubi
      @MyouKyuubi 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      you didn't actually hear them, though, you heard a metaphorical representation of their frequency response chart, via a mix-mastered track. :P

    • @summersky77
      @summersky77 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MyouKyuubi Were you there? I don't recall seeing you.

    • @MyouKyuubi
      @MyouKyuubi 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@summersky77 Oh, you mean YOU PERSONALLY tried the Verum 1 out, irl? I thought you meant they sounded like crap via the mix-mastered track in this video. :P

  • @rapmeister5242
    @rapmeister5242 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    what's your closed back headphones? or the one you use when outside? I'm curious to know.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Everyone is curious but they're not made anymore and I want to get a spare pair on eBay - I don't want to push the price up.

  • @el_arte
    @el_arte 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The snark and satire on this channel is reaching Monty Pythonic levels. I expect a savage rabbit to burst into the frames and rip apart consumerist audiophiles any day now.

  • @johnnyrenfield
    @johnnyrenfield 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Always look forward to your videos 🤘💀🍻🔥🙏

  • @nate_d376
    @nate_d376 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You never fail to make me laugh....

  • @paulpaulzadeh6172
    @paulpaulzadeh6172 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Poor quality 😏😏😏

  • @polarbear3427
    @polarbear3427 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Brave Ukrainian people

    •  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Brave or dumb AF. Most of the young men are now dead. Now they have to fight with geriatric men and women until they surrender which I hope is soon.

  • @rabit818
    @rabit818 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You need an X-Acto knife to cut & open boxes safely.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I've been using single-sided razor blades for decades, originally for editing tape but perhaps I should put up a health and safety warning for anyone as foolhardy as me.

  • @sjors01
    @sjors01 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fore me Seinnheiser hd414 super air on the ears👍

    • @luisrodriguez8639
      @luisrodriguez8639 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You mean HD424 which was the best Sennheiser in 1984, do this Verum sounds better than your HD414 ?

  • @chuckmaddison2924
    @chuckmaddison2924 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Just the person I thought I ask
    On the subject of speaker cable testing. How about this.
    Mono signal mono amp. 2 speakers
    Start with basic speaker cable.
    Sound will lock in middle as both the same.
    Swap one cable for expensive.
    If there is a difference, the sound should spread , bit like if out of phase but not as dramatic .
    Just a thought.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You're exactly right and I will be using a method similar to this in a future video.

    • @theaustralianconundrum
      @theaustralianconundrum 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Audio Technica ATH-AD2000X are simply delightful. @@AudioMasterclass

    • @MC-jv6fs
      @MC-jv6fs 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Now you put it in words , i have to admit: its damned easy!!thx

    • @chuckmaddison2924
      @chuckmaddison2924 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @MC-jv6fs I was thinking there must be a simple way if you don't have an oscilloscope, function generator's and so on. It was just an idea ,I haven't tested. But in theory, it should work..
      Years ago I did use a Yamaha equaliser to create a fake stereo by creating a variation in the signal.

  • @jjcale2288
    @jjcale2288 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Russian screws, what to expect.

  • @currykevuk
    @currykevuk 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wear those on the London tube at your peril!
    Either get mugged or laughed at!!

    • @ChrisStoneinator
      @ChrisStoneinator 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Laugh at me all you want, can't hear you over the sound of t̶h̶i̶s̶ l̶o̶v̶e̶l̶y̶ m̶u̶s̶i̶c̶ the fucking Victoria line

  • @NeoCyrus777
    @NeoCyrus777 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Ordered mine in early December and was told it would ship in March when I emailed after ~2.5 months to ask if all is well. It was never shipped. Igor never responded to me asking what happened. Luckily, I was still within the window for my CC company to get my money back.
    After that I found that the HiFiMan Edition XS was available to ship here for $520 CAD, so almost the same price as what I was charged for the Verum 1 and everyone says the XS are superior, so it's a happy ending for me, I suppose.

    • @richardelliott8352
      @richardelliott8352 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I ordered the version 2, and have been getting regular updates . perhaps you inadvertently ordered the obsolete production , and the order didn't process to where they became aware of the problem.

  • @atoptip6193
    @atoptip6193 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Much like many other terms in “audiophilia,” or just audio, “dynamic” may be a marketing expression, from around 1939, when radio manufacturers shifted from field-coil to permanent-magnet speakers. They must have needed a new term to sell their “invention.” In any case that is when I first see “dynamic” in print advertisements.
    But what was not dynamic about field-coil speakers? - the opposite of dynamic? Static? “We have moved on from our earlier static speakers which made no sound.” Or, as Olivia Rodrigo says, “Gotta laugh at the stupidity”
    It is also possible to be even earlier, the late 1920s - dynamic may refer to the coil being attached to the cone or the moving part of the speaker rather than stationary, moving the diaphram via a “reed.” That would make more sense.

    • @ChrisStoneinator
      @ChrisStoneinator 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      We're referring to dynamic range mate. Talk about overthinking.
      God, it's brutal out here!

  • @ray_notes8170
    @ray_notes8170 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fun little tune. I'd make a Paul McCartney joke but I'm sure you've heard them all by now. 😂

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I’ve heard many but I’m always open to more.

  • @sephardim4yeshua155
    @sephardim4yeshua155 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If I can hear great sound quality from your headphones then it would seem that my headphones are great too, as I wouldnt be able to hear great quality from your end if my headphones were not as good.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Your logic is admirable.

    • @Andy-xn9zn
      @Andy-xn9zn 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Lamo

    • @obsprisma
      @obsprisma 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@AudioMasterclass 🤣🤣

  •  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    These look very nice. This review is missing a lot of stuff: soundstage imaging resolution dynamics etc. I'll look at buying some as soon as Ukraine surrenders or they completely run out of people to fight which should be fairly soon.