@@joshburke4083 from what I understand the Bren's were still used at the same time. My father has some pics of his unit from the early to mid 80s. There is a mix of M16 with grenade launcher, Sterling SMG, SLR and Bren. He said the M16 was given to the point man, and in the event of ambush he was to dump the the mag and launch the grenades giving time for the others to position and return fire.
It's the intimate details from experienced soldiers that reinforce how effective these firearms can be in trained hands. Thank you for your servive to this country. ✌
G’day Ian, I’m in my ‘retirement’ years and for the last 15 or so I’ve been a military historian. I’ve found your firearms histories incredibly helpful whenever I need to clear up the fine historical detail of certain weapons. I served in the RAAF in the late 60s to late 70s. Our standard issue weapon, at basic training, was the L1A1 SLR from Lithgow Small Arms Factory (The old title, I think). Our ‘shorthand’ for this rifle was just “SLR” but we sure had to know the full title if ever asked. Interestingly, these training rifles all had the ‘automatic’ option disengaged. Probably, they didn’t want a bunch of, recently private citizens having the capability of accidentally ‘spraying’ an entire mag’s worth of rounds which might have resulted in unfortunate accidents. That was my only guess. It was never explained to us. I must add that our instructors were all ADGs who had seen extensive active duty in Vietnam. They were a good men and had our complete respect. I’ll never forget the first day of training on the range and our instructor fired a single 7.62 round into a 5 gallon tin of water. Clean, small entry point resulting in the entire back of the can blown clean off! It was a brilliant way of showing us trainees the powerful effect of this weapon. I enlisted for a non-combat mustering (we called different jobs in the RAAF ‘Musterings’); so, I was only trained on the SLR. My only previous experience with firearms was with a mate’s .22; a short 310 Martini action and I later I also privately purchased an unissued ex-WW2 Lee Enfield .303 in pristine condition. A beautiful, if heavy, weapon but excellent for target shooting. I had been invited by a farmer friend to help out with a ‘plague’ of wallabies on his property, in a couple of night shoots. Truth be told, I found this personally distasteful as a .303 round sometimes blew a wallaby to ‘pieces’ depending on the range. This was, a waste as one of the great local ‘delicacies’ back then were ‘Forester Patties’. Fortunately, the locally, infamous, mass ‘wallaby/kangaroo’ shoots that occurred in our State were outlawed. I’m reminded of this, lately, every time I drive down our street, in suburban Hobart, at night, one has to be extra careful not to collide with a Wallaby or Pottaroo jumping ‘out of nowhere’. Just the other night I encountered 4 marsupials barely 200 yards from our driveway! Later on in our history, sadly, it became increasingly difficult to own a private ex-military firearm unless one was a collector or just happened to have an old weapon handed down in one’s family. After a shaky start, I really got to like using the SLR, unfortunately, in basic training in the Air Force we weren’t issued a specific weapon for the duration of our course so, one couldn’t become familiarised with the minor characteristics of a particular rifle. I surprised myself in that I became, over the short basic course, quite proficient with the SLR. The standard sidearm issue back then was the 9mm Browning, however, only those slotted for certain musterings, received training with those, at a later stage, like would be Airfield Defence Guards (ADGs - again, an old term these days), certain officers, Police Dog Handlers and our Service Police. Sorry, Ian for the rambling stroll down memory lane but I saw your thumbnail for this video and it brought back some highlights of my earliest days in the Service. Cheers, mate! I truly appreciate your videos and your attention to detail greatly. Bill H.
Thats right, The L1A1 was called the SLR, and these were called the L2. I used to carry this around the bush. You know small fact, that manual hold back lever, that locks the action back. Was NEVER pushed back down to release the action...lol, we only ever pulled the cocking lever back and released it that way, I never saw anyone ever do it...except for this video, I didnt even know you could lol Oh yeah, Im liking that M60 in the background...we loved that
As a soldier in the Australian Army, yes it was the SLR or even Slur in general usage. In any formal training situation especially promotion subjects it was referred to as an L1A1 SLR or self loading rifle, the better to maintain a professional trainer attitude. The L2A1 was used rarely in Battalion service and most riflemen didn't see then except in passing. 1 or 2 in Coy Q Stores for playing enemy when you didn't want to mess up an extra M60. While I was in SFMG Pln, we had these as an extra weapon but they rarely came out of the Q as jacking up an SLR was much easier for training purposes. The L2A1 was not a good weapon for sustained live fire.The barrel, while heavier than the rifle was not up to GPMG grade and suffered from prolonged usage. We did occasionally use them an with 30 rnd magazines but for limited short bursts to cover barrel changes, IAs or feeding new belts. The L4A4 (Bren)was used in preference. But that's another story.
Brings back memories. Usually came with 30rd mags, in the late 80's . We loaded them with 28 rds, and they worked. Every one tried to get hold of them as they fitted the L1A1 as well. fun to shoot, the bipod legs tended to not stay folded up.
Yep, the surfaces would get worn, nothing a little filing wouldn't fix. Biggest thing I noticed with the C2 was that most of the guys carrying one were just rifleman who had one handed to them and told to hump it.
@@joeinfax4190 Heavier, awkward and it had so many pointy bits to catch on stuff. Belts are ok when stationary, but try running thru scrub with 100 rd belts is something not many people enjoy. :)
@@TonysGemstoneDesignswithGCS Heresy! Looking rambo is the only important thing, ask any gamer :) I see the Indian army is going back to 7.62 x 51. Guess they want to knock down the bad guys.
SLR!! The Australians always refer to the L1A1 and its derivatives as the SLR. You could also modify a regular L1A1 with a matchstick to give it the ability for automatic fire.
Better to use some hootchie cord that's been heated a little to harden it up. Matchstick was super blatant, easier to make the offending item disappear before the inevitable inspection...
@@ausmax1972 that’s a neat little trick, I’ve only ever seen and heard about the matchstick. Either way kicks like a mule in automatic so I guess there’s a reason it wasn’t standard😂
Ian, just a quick (and big) THANK YOU - one of the only foreign based content providers who have managed to pronounce LITHGOW correctly. As an retired RAAF guy who learnt to shoot the military way with the L1A1, thanks mate!
Interesting ,I've never heard it pronounced any other way . Also only heard Americans ( yanks ) call the rifles "fals" not F A L or L1A1 or something else
I enjoy how almost every video of a foreign firearm has a comment under it of someone from its country of origin complimenting Ian for getting it right.
Just a few comments on an otherwise fine video: - Despite the official blurb about how the L2A1 was "officially" used, the reality in Australia was that by the late 1970s and on, it was typically used as an automatic weapon for units or detachments that did not need the M60. For example, the L2 ARs were issued to the RAEME LIght Aid Detachment that supported the armoured recce unit I was in. They didn't need a GPMG but they did need some heavier firepower to complement the F1 SMGs they typically carried. The L2 ARs were most often used as a light automatic weapon and rarely as a heavy barrelled rifle. There's been a lot of talk about armourers converting L1A1 SLRs for the Australian SAS during the Vietnam War to be capable of full auto fire, the reality is that a good number of these rifles were actually L2A1 ARs modified to suit SAS needs (the rear sight is the obvious giveaway) As regards the 30-rd magazine, never in ten years did I see the L2A1 "officially" use the 20-rd magazine. The L2A1 had a wooden box of 30-rd magazines issued for it and for the two units I was in that had L2 ARs we always used the 30-rd mags. Other units had different situations and preferences and used one or the other or both, but what this all goes to show is that the use of 20-rd mags for the L2 was by no means universal or normal across Australia.
All of this is indeed true... The 30 round magazine was VERY MUCH the norm for the L1A2. As you stated with second line units, Air Force and Navy were more common users of the L1A3 with M60s being prioritised to the Arms Corps units. I had a metal 30round magazine transited case in my possession last month actually.
I used to f---ing hate those chests of 30-round magazines, they were a pig to carry even unloaded, when loaded it totally defeated the purpose of the thing being portable.
Ian, check the barrels out, I suspect a lot more barrels were made than L2s were made, then the L1A1 was “converted”. We simply got the heavy barrel, cut it down, changed the Safety to single and auto (very easy).
@@keithad6485 Hi Keith, that was one way, but a few problems, you couldn’t go to semi-automatic other than by trigger control, the match shredded and in the middle of a burst it would revert to semi-auto. I preferred the Armourer solution with a safety that went to semi then to full auto. Kinda wished it had a 3 round burst capacity like the Stg 90.
A number of L2A1s were modified for use by the SASR in Vietnam. Modification was done on a per gun basis usually to user request and guns were often inherited between users as members cycled in and out of country so there was no official standard to the changes. Common modifications were to remove the bipod and replace it with either a spare pistol grip clamped to the barrel or an XM148 grenade launcher, and barrels were often cut back to right infront of the gas block and rethreaded or left without a flash hider. Full auto fire was typically reserved for specific situations or emergencies, however several sources claim that standard practice in an ambush was for 1-2 squad members to dump a magazine on full auto before switching over to semi auto, as the large flash and blast of the shortened rifle on full auto was believed to confuse the enemy into thinking they were facing a larger force with heavier automatic firepower than was actually on site
There was a blue on blue shit show between a SAS patrol and a Vietnamese local defence force. The aggressive reaction and flash and bark of the unmuzzled L2A2 convince them they were been engaged by a VC 12.5mm. They immediately pulled their heads in and called for arty. It was sort at the 'higher authority'.
SASR armourers were mad scientists of the first order... all about making the enemy think “What the Fu(# just hit us” didn’t hurt if it scared the S#1t out of the Septics at the same time🤣
Back in the '60's I met a Warrant Officer who carried one of those when deployed 'over seas' - standard hand guard, heavy barrel chopped to the gas block, full auto trigger group. He said if he saw 'something' he yelled 'Contact' or 'Ambush' as appropriate, dumped the 30 rounds on the way to the ground and took cover
I carried one with the 30 round mag for two weeks during an Army Reserve exercise in 1981. I liked it a lot but I only fired the black plastic blank rounds through it. Great to know some have survived, most of our SLR's were put through a crusher and melted down at the steel works in Port Kembla. Terrible shame. I miss my SLR.
We loved the SLR in Australia, you can see polished versions on show during our recent Anzac day ceremony. Lovely thing, and sorely missed by those lucky enough to fire one.
Just a small point but SAF stands for Small Arms Factory in Lithgow ( a city in regional NSW) where these were made, not Lithgow Arsenal. Love your channel, Ian!
I was issued an L2 initially but it was replaced by a GPMG M60 about 9 months later. L2 was hard to keep on target in full auto. I was happy for the replacement. I was an assault trooper in a cavalry unit.
I was in the R. A. N and we had these with 30 round mags and I personally never had a drama with them. Also the L2A1 had a different rear sight to this one, it was graduated in meters not yards and ran out to about 1200 meters it was also mounted on the dust cover.
@@jonathany1240 And I'm a bit irritated that we DO have the 26th as the "ANZAC Day Public Holiday" here in Canberra. Why can't it just be THE day? Sigh. I can't even go to the Dawn Service at the AWM. Restricted numbers and I didn't realise one had to book. AND I'm a Returned Serviceman myself! (Persian Gulf 91)
@@Joshua_N-A We did. You can choose between the AsLAV, or the Bushmaster PMV, depending on whether you want to lean more towards a BMP style vehicle or a weaponized winnebago.
NZer here. My partner's father was in the army years back. He spoke fondly of the L1 and L2 FALs. He said they were heavy and kicked a bit, but whatever you hit certainly knew about it.
It's worth noting that Malaysia, or Malaya as it was known at that time, hosted a significant presence of Commonwealth forces during the 1960s. My father fought in theatre there for three years, and then Vietnam, and he recalled fondly the L1A1 and the L2A1. As a fairly short guy he commented just how tame the L2A1 was to shoot compared to other machine guns available to them at the time. They also had a hazing exercise with these rifles - you'd run a magazine or two through the rifle, then after it had heated up enough, they'd pick up a spent cartridge and burn a mark in their forearm. But an absolutely staple of the Australian Army and a gorgeous example. Thanks for the in depth review!
Indeed! My late uncle served in the Malaya conflict and then multiple tours in Vietnam too. He spoke very little about his service. It’s good reminiscing again.
No kidding. Lol. I was thinking the same thing. I wish Ian would state the weight of guns. I know he can't take a scale with him, but weight is probably mentioned in his research. I imagine it is a lb or 2 lighter than the BAR.
Never saw a L1A2 during my time in the Army but did manage to score two of the 30 round mags. Loved them and never had a feeding problem even with the plastic blank ammo.
Funny you say that. In Vietnam the SASR gave their L1A1 rifles to their armorers and they converted them to automatic, cut down the barrel length and put front grips on them and gave them 30 round mags. They called it "the bitch."
@@jeffveraart2695 I know of that gun because of the NIArms weapon pack for ArmA 3. They called it the 'L1A1 Chopmod' and I'd always run it when the FAL was mandated to us for a mission
In Canada we used lots of these. Our infantry platoon/section tactics were based around a section being broken down into a C2 (as it was called in Canadian service) group and a maneuver group. Two C2s and he section 2ic would form a fire base and the rest of the section would form a maneuver element in the attack. Canadian version had an open body cover with a charger guide for loading with stripper clips, but it didn't work all that well, and wasn't really used. Unless we were using war stock ammo, which we only did in the end of it's service days our ammo didn't come on stripper clips. We always were issued 30 rd mags with the C2 and I never had a problem with them and I never heard anyone saying they were not reliable. I imagine the original intent of this gun was to be a light version of the Bren gun, which is how we used it tactically. The problem was without the weight of a Bren and the quick change barrel, they just got really hot really fast. It didn't take long before they got so hot that you'd try to shoot a short burst and the entire mag would cook off, which didn't help with the overheating.
The L2A2 was never used as a section weapon. Once 7.62 was introduced the infantry section MG was the GPMG M60. The L2A2 was given to support units like R.A.E., R.A.E.M.E, Wheelies and Arty for local defence. The L2A2 was never well regarded, its limitations were well understood. I always assumed it was bought to keep production going at Lithgow for political reasons (regional employment).
@@graemesydney38 By this time the infantry was all mechanized, so the dismounted section used this gun and the carriers were equipped with the machine gun C5, which is a Browning 1919 modified to fire 7.62 from standard NATO disintegrating link belt. It was a total piece of crap that was horrible compared to the WWII era .30 Browning. They were often dismounted in the defence or for patrolling but with a separate tripod they were awkward to carry. The C5 was eventually replaced by the FN MAG 58, at the same time as the C2 was replaced by the FN MINIMI, and the C1 (standard FN SLR) was replaced by the M16 (C7 in Canadian service)
Yes I to loved the C2. The FN was such a great weapon. I think the C2 barel was heavier though. I always wondered why the barrel was not a quick change one.
This video is most interesting to me in the context of your video on the Swedish BAR: namely that the M240/FN MAG is a BAR that looks nothing like a BAR (I had wondered for years why nobody ever put a belt feed on the BAR action....had no idea). To me, the demonstration of different ways in which mechanical designs and purposes intertwine to create new combinations in a changing landscape is absolutely fascinating, and the part of your work that may have the most lasting value. It isn't just a study on how smart people design guns over time, it's a study of how people and ideas adapt to one another and to the world over time. The thing that really sets military small arms apart from studying, say, the history of bridge construction, is that the use settings are far more chaotic and variable, the designs are less uniform, the number of independent participants is greater, but the amount of money and effort spent is at least comparable. You see similar things with aircraft (i.e. fewer distinct roles, fewer participants and more uniformity). Thanks for the great work.
played the enemy with SLR L1A2 on army exercise against 2nd transport company, in Pucka ,way back in the 80sfull of blanks with an attached BFA 40 rounds mag and 5 full mags,it was great fun opened up fully auto standing position took over a week for my shoulder to stop hurting
Trained with them in Malaysia as a RAAF base combatant member 86 to 88 30 round magazines all the way. 3 to 5 round bursts. Set up in ambushes as a lmg
My favorite .308 cal battle rifle. I purchased 5 Australian L1A1 Kits back in the early 90s at a great price. I was able to put Imbel receiver's on all but one, which I still have. And plan on getting a receiver for this kit really soon. Fantastic rifle & I prefer them over my AR-10
The hold open can be re fitted to Aussie rifles. It was done by armorers in Vietnam. The manual hold open is very useful on parade for “for inspection port arms” as it is tiring holding the action open until it is inspected. Often a couple of tracers would be loaded before the last round and you were taught to keep count of your rounds as you let them go.
Ian, thank you so much for showing us all the L2A1, the rifle I was issued in the Australian Army in 1984-85 A couple of points: The bipod when it was being used as a handguard didn't seem to wobble as much as the one you have there. We were always required to carry the weapon with the bipod folded at all times except when shooting prone. 10:00 I was issued 30 round magazines for it. I was not to lend those magazines to anyone with an L1A1, and I ran the gas system with the plug fully closed, so it kicked like a mule, but ran smoothly. Perhaps the change in issuing 30 round magazines came after I was on the M60 instead?
Not sure what the Aussies were doing with them that late. NZ had these from the 60s though to the replacement by the M16 and then the Steyr. The mag that was issued with NZ ones was always the 30 round mag. The rear sight on the NZ ones were different as well. A much better sight was fitted. They were banned for issue in competitions......
@@davesherry5384 The L2A1 was issued to non-infantry units, and also used in officer training back in the early 80s. They were pretty rare, and were replaced by the Steyr along with the L1A1 (that happened just after I was medically discharged due to a leg injury)
The heavy barrelled full auto bipod version was actually an L1A2. The Australian SASR used a modified version of this weapon during the Vietnam War by cutting down the barrel back to the bipod for jungle warfare. This modification changed the sound of the weapon when firing which made it sound somewhat like an American M60 deceiving the NVA / VC into thinking they were encountering a larger sized force than the SAS patrol.
at 10 mins you inaccurately state that the Aussies scrapped the 30rd magazines, we used them right up till this weapon was removed from service in the mid 90s mate. We didn't keep the curved L4A4 mags (bren) as we went directly to the straight 30rd mags but they slanted forward slightly to aid loading of ammunition into the rifle, whomever told you we got rid of the 3ord mags is full of crap. the scale of issue for this weapon was 10 x 30rd mags or 15 x 20rd mags - the same as for the L4A4 Bren LMG.
G'Day, Used these as an Able Seaman Radio Operator Submariner on Aussie Oberon Class Submarines in the 1970's. Our small arms complement was 2 x L2A1's 8 x F1 SMG's, some 9mm Hi Power Brownings and two Auto Shotguns....Doing Boardings the Signalman [RO] on the Fin would have an L2A1, with the other one manned by a Seaman type in the Accommodation Space hatchwell. For covering fire if needed...the Borders would get F1's and Shotties....I argued with the Torpedo Officer He needed to get O Boats issued with a belt fed 30 Calibur for the Bridge but nooooo....[The army had Browning 30 Cals for the M-113's and Tanks]....but nooooo.
Great video. I carted an L1A1 around in the Australian army for two years in the early seventies. The L2A1 was always featured in our infantry training manual, but I never actually saw one. The American made M60 GPMG was the section fire machine gun at the time and apart from the occasional over heating problem was a great weapon to deal with the bad guys.
This weapon was relegated to rear echelon and support unit use, with the M60 being adopted and used for frontline infantry combat use. The poor experience with the AR (Automatic Rifle), as these were known in Australian service led to Australia not selecting the heavy barrel option of the Steyr when it was introduced. Still used them in the mid to late 90's though.
My experience as well, but I was a gunner for a bit in a University Regiment, and we used them when we didn't have enough M60's. I did a bit of live ammo on them with 30 round mags later on in a support unit, always 30. 1500 rounds in one arvo gave sore shoulder for a fortnight. Much worse for that than the 60.
M60 and L7 GPMG (from 1962) were used for first line infantry combat. M60 was adopted first in 1960 and used in VN, L7 was adopted later for use in Borneo, West Malaysia and Singapore. Presumably common logistics with partner forces was a consideration. Later, in the mid eighties the MAG58 replaced the M60, later still, the L7 were modified for increased parts compatibility with the MAG58.
I handled and fired one of these in the early 1970's in Aust Army. It had "AR" stamped on the left side of the receiver and was told it stood for "Automatic Rifle" and it had experimental features on it. I thought the Bipod that became the hand guard, when folded upwards and locked in, was a unique feature.
The ones in Australian service did not have the L1A1 rear sight, but an adjustable rear aperture mounted to the dust cover. Also, throughout my service I never saw an L2A1 with twenty round magazine fitted, They exclusively used the 30 round magazine which of course was interchangeable with the Bren magazine. The difference was that the Bren mag had a slight kink or curve in it, whereas the 30 round magazine made for it was straight, just like a twenty. I used them on a number of occasions but never experienced the problems you speak of. They did apparently wear the magazine catch because of the extra magazine weight. I liked it. It was a bugger to carry but a pleasure to use,
The Brazilian Army (Exército Brasileiro) used this weapon until recently, as the FAP (Fuzil Automático Pesado, Heavy Automatic Rifle). It was succeeded by the FN MAG (M971 in brazilian military service) and the FN Minimi.
Everyone in my family talked shit about the Styer, but compared to the SLR I see where they're coming from. And aside from the oldest (who used the bren and smle and that era of weapon), they all used the SLR. Cool gat. Nice vid Ian 👍 Just to point out, I posted this before fully watching the video. I had no idea that this pattern existed at all I had initially assumed it was just an update because I knew it was in service for ages. Really interesting stuff.
These were still used in the RAN in the late ‘80s, lots of fun to shoot and full-auto was never discouraged! I remember doing a night shoot with 1/3 tracer rounds at Bindoon because we had an excess(6000 rounds!) of ammo that had to be used up!
My old man worked at the Lithgow SAF/ADI for 15 years and during the Vietnam war as a First Class Machinist and leading hand tool setter, he’s got many stories of the place. Probably handles some of the components on that very rifle or at least set up the machines used to manufacture the components.
During my time in the military, I never came across these. We did use the humble SLR, which I still reckon is the best. Anyone hit with a 7.62 round did not move or run away like they did with a couple of 5.56 rounds in them. We did try these on Auto, by making a few changes with the trigger housings, but were not impressed as ammo depleted far too quickly. We reset them back, to semi auto. Very happy with the SLR.
I was in the ADF in the early days when they transitioned from the SLR to the Steyr. I got to shoot the L2A1 a couple of times ( but mainly used the M60 ), it was accurate but it love chewing through the mags. This video brought back memories.
Gotta love some FAL goodness! I mean, if you’re going to have a select fire FAL, it may as well be a heavy barrel, bipod version. Edit: does this make the RPK the only really successful post-war Heavy Automatic Rifle?
RPK is something else, since it fires intermediate round. That alone changes the type and application of the weapon. This L2A1 is closer equivalent to BAR than anything, or, very distantly, Bren. edit: there's another weapon I recalled that is close to this one - the StG57. despite it not looking very slick, it was actually a very good weapon, and was basically what L2 should be.
Dear Sir the large headed screw that connects the Trigger Mechanism Housing to the Receiver is in the wrong way round on your rifle . The large screw head should be on the cocking handle side because otherwise the other end can cut you when cocking the weapon. The screw goes through the safety sear and catches on it when you assemble it correctly, it is easier to put in incorrectly. But with a bit of trial and error it will go in the right way . PS love all of you excellent videos
4th/19th PWLH here, from 91-92 !! We still had the 'AR', SLR, and me on the '60! If memory serves me correct... the AR always had a bigger mag than an SLR. And the bipod was easier to reach aswell over the '60.
ADF issue weapons had the longer ramp sights instead of the regular L1A1 sights that you have. prob because this was based and built on the L1A1 receiver.
Common Australian practice with the SLR was to put a tracer as the second last round in the magazine. When you saw the tracer go the magazine was empty.
In SVN, one of the first things we did was to insert the pin back in the bolt hold open device. We then installed the full auto function, cut of the flash suppressor and put a front pistol grip on the weapon.
SASR armourers were mad scientists of the first order... all about making the enemy think “What the Fu(# just hit us” didn’t hurt if it scared the S#1t out of the Septics at the same time🤣
Hi Ian, excellent video as usual. I carried the C2 for a number of years until it was official replaced in Canadian service by the Minimi (C9). It was normally issued with 3-4, 30 rnd magazines along with the rifleman's standard complement of 5, 20 rnd magazines. It was normally carried with the bi-pod unfolded with your support hand holding one of the legs and a 20 rnd mag fitted. Common SOP at the time was to drop to the prone in order to return fire. Much easier when the bi-pod was already deployed. The 30 rnd mags were normally used in the defensive role as they hindered mobility but could deliver a greater rate of sustained fire. Automatic fire was generally used in counter ambush drills, everything else was repetitious fire. This weapon was particularly accurate. With the rear disc sight, you could reach out further than the standard C1. It was used in this role more often than as a 'automatic support weapon'. Having the bipod also made it easier to load the mags with stripper clips because it was more stable and you could use both hands to load.
Did they issue you the C2 "bra" chest mag holder? It wasn't very comfortable and you stood out in a crowd but it really made sure you had some ammo when you went to work:) We would also carry spare mags in an old pattern small pack, very useful for all kinds of things. We trained using auto fire in short 2-3 round bursts as suppressing fire and to cover an assault or withdrawal, trigger finger was named "finger, trigger C2" :) I remember the accuracy, you could do some fancy semi auto shooting at the range.
@@joeinfax4190 still have it actually, along with my C1 and SMG mag pouches. I still have my 82 pattern webbing set up for the C7/C9 as well. Carrying the C2 was a bit of a pain but a lot easier than the C5. I remember trying to carry as many mags as possible. As a 'rifle', it still ate up a lot of ammo. When I was in Petawawa, the Riggers would sew up bandoleers so we could carry 5 extra 20 rnd mags loaded instead of carrying loose rounds in boxes. I always thought it was crazy accurate compared to other rifles of the time, even without optics. I trained a lot in Germany and got to use the G3 and the MG3 a fair bit. I still prefer the C1. I love the C6, but the MG3 is a pretty stellar piece of kit too.
@@damianbonin59 C2 bra would be a great souvenir, if you have spares send one to Ian, it would be hilarious to see him at the range wearing one while he fired the C2:) Ya, the box ammo was always a pain, the last time I saw the bandolier ammo in clips was in Germany in 77, we kept the charging clips from the range from years earlier when we first started seeing the boxed ammo. I think the Airborne had the mag bandoliers back in the 70s, great idea that would still be handy for any mag fed rifle. The biggest reason why the FN and the G3 were such good shooters was the round, still see .308 being used on the hunting shows for those long moose shots.
Soldier: Want MG. Brass: How about an unsighted DMR prototype? Soldier: BRA-A-AP Brass: No, no. Not like that. Slowly. Slow-ly. Solider: ... Brass: FINE. Mag-58? Soldier: *happy belt-fed noises*
The only thing I didn’t like about the MAG was how heavy it was for a light infantryman. Shoots great, very reliable and very accurate for an open bolt MG. But when the PKM is something like 10 pounds lighter, my ground pounding ass got a little wistful.
There's still an argument to be made for the familiarity of a common rifle pattern, but that argument is easily drowned out by the bark of this here M60 with Tactical Bean Can Feed Assistor (that isn't a joke, a common solution to the feeding problems of the M60 was to rig up a tin can beneath the feeder so that it _could_ be used without an assistant gunner, although reloading was still a pain for one person to manage)
These things were insanely accurate on the bipod. Mine had the option for a slide-cover mounted C2 scope. The smallest grouping (5 rnds) I've ever seen by an auto weapon burst.
Certainly not my experience with the C2 in Canada. They were OK in Repetition, but in Automatic it was first round of the burst in the general area of the target, and the rest of the burst scared birds in flight! Not my idea of a good weapon.
My grandfather worked in the Lithgow arms factory. Before he died he gave me a large metal tin full of different caliber bullets and gun parts he used to make.
The "problems" with the 30 round mags came from trying to use the Bren gun mags on the L2A1. Bren mags had a slightly weaker spring because they fed from the top, so when we used them in the rifles we had issues with feeding. Tried various things and this was the only reason we could find. Turned the rifle upside down with a Bren mag and worked great so mag springs had to be the problem.
I used the Canadian FNC2 you could burn your fingers when using the bipod as a forestock. Don't recall issues with our 30rd mags, we also got issued a 4 mag "Bra" that strapped to your chest. Fun and accurate guns. We were taught to use them both in semi and using 3rd bursts to protect the barrel from overheating. This was a cheap replacement of the Bren.
The L2A1 was still issued in the early 90s in Australia we had them aswell as 7.62 Bren guns and M60s, the above 3 were phased out with the introduction of the Steyr F88.and the Mag58. The only time I used or saw L2s being used we had the straight 30 round mags. The bren mags would also fit however they had weak springs as there designed for top feeding so were not to be used. The SAS also used L2s in Vietnam with the barrels shortened just in front of the gas system and no flash hiders.
The gun in the thumbnail resembles a late 6l - 8l series C2A1 in that it has the detachable front sight wings. It looks like the same front bipod with the same ridiculous catch too.
I used one in the Australian Army during the 80's and 30 round mags were issued as standard. We used to "loose" them and keep 1 or 2 for our standard SLRs - particularly if you knew how to jack one up to full auto :)
The bayonet lug makes me think some commonwealth officer is going to form his men in a square to fight off cavalry attacks. Since I couldn't imagine trying to actually swing this thing around might as well use it as a pike, :p
As far as I can remember we Australians always had these with 30 round mags. Comfortable with my SLR rifle (lighter semi version), in SVN during 1970. Fired the L2A1 heavy and the M60 on night shoots into the South China sea and loved the spectacle of the tracers bouncing away off the water. Can still remember the sight of "Puff the Magic Dragon" hosing off the countryside and hills with tracers at night. The 9mm F1 sub machine gun was a joke and not much better than throwing a hand full of small stones. Many of our infantry preferred the M16 for patrolling.
Google the SASR L1A1 "The Bitch". Now that's a frankengun. In Vietnam the SASR gave their L1A1 rifles to their armorers and they converted them to automatic, cut down the barrel length and put front grips on them and gave them 30 round mags.
Note that the carry handle is slightly different to that of the L1A1 to allow for the change in the centre of gravity with the heavier barrel of the L2A1. Minor point, but still for those who are picky, it could be significant. Also, every L2A1 weapon I saw (in 25 years service in the Australian Army), had a 30-round magazine. A lot of Infantry guys would "liberate" the 30-round L2A1 magazines for use with their L1A1 weapons. It was frowned upon, but it did happen. The 30-round magazine was a much sought-after commodity in the Infantry battalions.
At basic training ( boot camp ) it was presented as a light machinegun although I never saw it in the field. I only ever saw the M60 carried as a GP machinegun.
I used one of these in the New Zealand army. We had 30 round magazines the were very heavy. They were good to shoot, accurate and durable.
I thought we used the Bren over this.
I was thinking it's basically a better bren
@@joshburke4083 from what I understand the Bren's were still used at the same time. My father has some pics of his unit from the early to mid 80s. There is a mix of M16 with grenade launcher, Sterling SMG, SLR and Bren.
He said the M16 was given to the point man, and in the event of ambush he was to dump the the mag and launch the grenades giving time for the others to position and return fire.
It's the intimate details from experienced soldiers that reinforce how effective these firearms can be in trained hands.
Thank you for your servive to this country.
✌
@@joshburke4083 yes, we had 1945 Brens converted to 7.62 in Aust. in 1974/75
G’day Ian, I’m in my ‘retirement’ years and for the last 15 or so I’ve been a military historian. I’ve found your firearms histories incredibly helpful whenever I need to clear up the fine historical detail of certain weapons.
I served in the RAAF in the late 60s to late 70s. Our standard issue weapon, at basic training, was the L1A1 SLR from Lithgow Small Arms Factory (The old title, I think). Our ‘shorthand’ for this rifle was just “SLR” but we sure had to know the full title if ever asked.
Interestingly, these training rifles all had the ‘automatic’ option disengaged. Probably, they didn’t want a bunch of, recently private citizens having the capability of accidentally ‘spraying’ an entire mag’s worth of rounds which might have resulted in unfortunate accidents. That was my only guess. It was never explained to us. I must add that our instructors were all ADGs who had seen extensive active duty in Vietnam. They were a good men and had our complete respect.
I’ll never forget the first day of training on the range and our instructor fired a single 7.62 round into a 5 gallon tin of water. Clean, small entry point resulting in the entire back of the can blown clean off! It was a brilliant way of showing us trainees the powerful effect of this weapon.
I enlisted for a non-combat mustering (we called different jobs in the RAAF ‘Musterings’); so, I was only trained on the SLR. My only previous experience with firearms was with a mate’s .22; a short 310 Martini action and I later I also privately purchased an unissued ex-WW2 Lee Enfield .303 in pristine condition. A beautiful, if heavy, weapon but excellent for target shooting.
I had been invited by a farmer friend to help out with a ‘plague’ of wallabies on his property, in a couple of night shoots. Truth be told, I found this personally distasteful as a .303 round sometimes blew a wallaby to ‘pieces’ depending on the range. This was, a waste as one of the great local ‘delicacies’ back then were ‘Forester Patties’. Fortunately, the locally, infamous, mass ‘wallaby/kangaroo’ shoots that occurred in our State were outlawed.
I’m reminded of this, lately, every time I drive down our street, in suburban Hobart, at night, one has to be extra careful not to collide with a Wallaby or Pottaroo jumping ‘out of nowhere’. Just the other night I encountered 4 marsupials barely 200 yards from our driveway!
Later on in our history, sadly, it became increasingly difficult to own a private ex-military firearm unless one was a collector or just happened to have an old weapon handed down in one’s family.
After a shaky start, I really got to like using the SLR, unfortunately, in basic training in the Air Force we weren’t issued a specific weapon for the duration of our course so, one couldn’t become familiarised with the minor characteristics of a particular rifle.
I surprised myself in that I became, over the short basic course, quite proficient with the SLR. The standard sidearm issue back then was the 9mm Browning, however, only those slotted for certain musterings, received training with those, at a later stage, like would be Airfield Defence Guards (ADGs - again, an old term these days), certain officers, Police Dog Handlers and our Service Police.
Sorry, Ian for the rambling stroll down memory lane but I saw your thumbnail for this video and it brought back some highlights of my earliest days in the Service.
Cheers, mate! I truly appreciate your videos and your attention to detail greatly. Bill H.
Not forgotten by this Ozzie trooper. We got to use some new ones that just got taken out of storage. Long time ago now.
I'm feeling old too. I got OUT of the RAN before the Steyr was introduced!
Me too, 1972 to 75, but never even saw one of these, i carried L1A1, But had heard about them. Loved L1A1.
We used them at Kapooka in 1988
Love the SLR
@@donaldsievers8988 Pucka, a bit earlier.
I've never actually heard an Australian call the L1A1 anything other than SLR.
I do cringe whenever I hear it called a FAL
@@daviddou1408 exactly. The L1A1 self loading rifle
Thats right, The L1A1 was called the SLR, and these were called the L2. I used to carry this around the bush. You know small fact, that manual hold back lever, that locks the action back. Was NEVER pushed back down to release the action...lol, we only ever pulled the cocking lever back and released it that way, I never saw anyone ever do it...except for this video, I didnt even know you could lol
Oh yeah, Im liking that M60 in the background...we loved that
As a soldier in the Australian Army, yes it was the SLR or even Slur in general usage. In any formal training situation especially promotion subjects it was referred to as an L1A1 SLR or self loading rifle, the better to maintain a professional trainer attitude. The L2A1 was used rarely in Battalion service and most riflemen didn't see then except in passing. 1 or 2 in Coy Q Stores for playing enemy when you didn't want to mess up an extra M60. While I was in SFMG Pln, we had these as an extra weapon but they rarely came out of the Q as jacking up an SLR was much easier for training purposes.
The L2A1 was not a good weapon for sustained live fire.The barrel, while heavier than the rifle was not up to GPMG grade and suffered from prolonged usage. We did occasionally use them an with 30 rnd magazines but for limited short bursts to cover barrel changes, IAs or feeding new belts. The L4A4 (Bren)was used in preference. But that's another story.
@@arthurpearce8539 excellent response. I remember that 10IRC used Brens as enemy.
Brings back memories. Usually came with 30rd mags, in the late 80's . We loaded them with 28 rds, and they worked. Every one tried to get hold of them as they fitted the L1A1 as well. fun to shoot, the bipod legs tended to not stay folded up.
Yep, the surfaces would get worn, nothing a little filing wouldn't fix. Biggest thing I noticed with the C2 was that most of the guys carrying one were just rifleman who had one handed to them and told to hump it.
@@joeinfax4190 We usually got them when the M60's were unavailable.
@@TonysGemstoneDesignswithGCS The m60 was definitely more rambo :)
@@joeinfax4190 Heavier, awkward and it had so many pointy bits to catch on stuff. Belts are ok when stationary, but try running thru scrub with 100 rd belts is something not many people enjoy. :)
@@TonysGemstoneDesignswithGCS Heresy! Looking rambo is the only important thing, ask any gamer :) I see the Indian army is going back to 7.62 x 51. Guess they want to knock down the bad guys.
SLR!! The Australians always refer to the L1A1 and its derivatives as the SLR.
You could also modify a regular L1A1 with a matchstick to give it the ability for automatic fire.
Better to use some hootchie cord that's been heated a little to harden it up. Matchstick was super blatant, easier to make the offending item disappear before the inevitable inspection...
Pronounced "Slar". Yes, I was shown that too!
@@ausmax1972 that’s a neat little trick, I’ve only ever seen and heard about the matchstick. Either way kicks like a mule in automatic so I guess there’s a reason it wasn’t standard😂
@@bigbird2170 we pronounced it “slur” but I was just a chocco.
The ATF will classify matchsticks from now on as machine guns...
Ian, just a quick (and big) THANK YOU - one of the only foreign based content providers who have managed to pronounce LITHGOW correctly. As an retired RAAF guy who learnt to shoot the military way with the L1A1, thanks mate!
Interesting ,I've never heard it pronounced any other way . Also only heard Americans ( yanks ) call the rifles "fals" not F A L or L1A1 or something else
First time he didn't.
I enjoy how almost every video of a foreign firearm has a comment under it of someone from its country of origin complimenting Ian for getting it right.
Just a few comments on an otherwise fine video: -
Despite the official blurb about how the L2A1 was "officially" used, the reality in Australia was that by the late 1970s and on, it was typically used as an automatic weapon for units or detachments that did not need the M60. For example, the L2 ARs were issued to the RAEME LIght Aid Detachment that supported the armoured recce unit I was in. They didn't need a GPMG but they did need some heavier firepower to complement the F1 SMGs they typically carried. The L2 ARs were most often used as a light automatic weapon and rarely as a heavy barrelled rifle.
There's been a lot of talk about armourers converting L1A1 SLRs for the Australian SAS during the Vietnam War to be capable of full auto fire, the reality is that a good number of these rifles were actually L2A1 ARs modified to suit SAS needs (the rear sight is the obvious giveaway)
As regards the 30-rd magazine, never in ten years did I see the L2A1 "officially" use the 20-rd magazine. The L2A1 had a wooden box of 30-rd magazines issued for it and for the two units I was in that had L2 ARs we always used the 30-rd mags. Other units had different situations and preferences and used one or the other or both, but what this all goes to show is that the use of 20-rd mags for the L2 was by no means universal or normal across Australia.
All of this is indeed true...
The 30 round magazine was VERY MUCH the norm for the L1A2. As you stated with second line units, Air Force and Navy were more common users of the L1A3 with M60s being prioritised to the Arms Corps units.
I had a metal 30round magazine transited case in my possession last month actually.
I was a RAEME Qee in the 70's. All our L2A1's had 30 round mags.
Thank you.
I used to f---ing hate those chests of 30-round magazines, they were a pig to carry even unloaded, when loaded it totally defeated the purpose of the thing being portable.
@@steven-k. Oh hell yes! It surely had to be a rear echelon pogue who believed that the box was a good idea
One of the most underrated weapons in Rising Storm 2: Vietnam
Especially with semiauto fire I think.
My favourite there
@@satisfaction3078 I like it a lot more than the L1A1 for the selective fire when you have to absolutely make sure nobody is occupying a thatch hut.
Dude yes, I hate when nobody votes for Australia though..
But nothing beats the IZh-58.
Ian, check the barrels out, I suspect a lot more barrels were made than L2s were made, then the L1A1 was “converted”. We simply got the heavy barrel, cut it down, changed the Safety to single and auto (very easy).
i remember semi to auto required the addition of a shortened match stick!
@@keithad6485 Hi Keith, that was one way, but a few problems, you couldn’t go to semi-automatic other than by trigger control, the match shredded and in the middle of a burst it would revert to semi-auto. I preferred the Armourer solution with a safety that went to semi then to full auto. Kinda wished it had a 3 round burst capacity like the Stg 90.
That’s got to be the most fashionable FAL with that matching wood bipod 😎
It’s gorgeous!
@Taylor Gates or the vietcong.
talktoyoutoo or the emus
@@robertdevito5001 emus are more important tbh 😋
If you're wondering, the timber on it is coachwood - Ceratopetalum apetalum. As used in Court Room 3 of the Australian High Court.
A number of L2A1s were modified for use by the SASR in Vietnam. Modification was done on a per gun basis usually to user request and guns were often inherited between users as members cycled in and out of country so there was no official standard to the changes. Common modifications were to remove the bipod and replace it with either a spare pistol grip clamped to the barrel or an XM148 grenade launcher, and barrels were often cut back to right infront of the gas block and rethreaded or left without a flash hider. Full auto fire was typically reserved for specific situations or emergencies, however several sources claim that standard practice in an ambush was for 1-2 squad members to dump a magazine on full auto before switching over to semi auto, as the large flash and blast of the shortened rifle on full auto was believed to confuse the enemy into thinking they were facing a larger force with heavier automatic firepower than was actually on site
... and they named these field modified L2A1s the "bitch".
There was a blue on blue shit show between a SAS patrol and a Vietnamese local defence force. The aggressive reaction and flash and bark of the unmuzzled L2A2 convince them they were been engaged by a VC 12.5mm. They immediately pulled their heads in and called for arty. It was sort at the 'higher authority'.
The Karen of FAL’s.
SASR armourers were mad scientists of the first order... all about making the enemy think “What the Fu(# just hit us” didn’t hurt if it scared the S#1t out of the Septics at the same time🤣
Back in the '60's I met a Warrant Officer who carried one of those when deployed 'over seas' - standard hand guard, heavy barrel chopped to the gas block, full auto trigger group. He said if he saw 'something' he yelled 'Contact' or 'Ambush' as appropriate, dumped the 30 rounds on the way to the ground and took cover
I carried one with the 30 round mag for two weeks during an Army Reserve exercise in 1981. I liked it a lot but I only fired the black plastic blank rounds through it. Great to know some have survived, most of our SLR's were put through a crusher and melted down at the steel works in Port Kembla. Terrible shame. I miss my SLR.
And sold to Pakistan
We loved the SLR in Australia, you can see polished versions on show during our recent Anzac day ceremony. Lovely thing, and sorely missed by those lucky enough to fire one.
@@daviddou1408 point taken David, bet you didn't swap it for an m16 though.
Just a small point but SAF stands for Small Arms Factory in Lithgow ( a city in regional NSW) where these were made, not Lithgow Arsenal. Love your channel, Ian!
Hello sweetie puss
I was issued an L2 initially but it was replaced by a GPMG M60 about 9 months later. L2 was hard to keep on target in full auto. I was happy for the replacement. I was an assault trooper in a cavalry unit.
M60 is a lot heavier, though. What, twice the weight? 2.5x?
I was in the R. A. N and we had these with 30 round mags and I personally never had a drama with them. Also the L2A1 had a different rear sight to this one, it was graduated in meters not yards and ran out to about 1200 meters it was also mounted on the dust cover.
Metres*
I had to go check some old photos but yes, the rear sight was mounted on the slide cover.
I love your videos on australian guns. Near perfect timing because anzac day is on the 25th.
A great day to be in Australia or New Zealand..
@@ZATennisFan Although many restrictions this year... I
@@trooperdgb9722 asking around, most are mad that we (in nsw anyway) don’t get the monday off
@@jonathany1240 And I'm a bit irritated that we DO have the 26th as the "ANZAC Day Public Holiday" here in Canberra. Why can't it just be THE day? Sigh. I can't even go to the Dawn Service at the AWM. Restricted numbers and I didn't realise one had to book. AND I'm a Returned Serviceman myself! (Persian Gulf 91)
@@trooperdgb9722 But it's totally fine to pack 75k people into a footy stadium.
"not quite an lmg but also not quite a rifle"
Aussie have mastered the art of the in-between
Australia needs to make a "not quite a tank but also not quite an IFV" next.
@@Joshua_N-A that's called an Emu
@@Joshua_N-A once saw an Aussie lady at a rugby match who downed 7 beers.
She could probably fit that role quite nicely.
@@Joshua_N-A We did. You can choose between the AsLAV, or the Bushmaster PMV, depending on whether you want to lean more towards a BMP style vehicle or a weaponized winnebago.
It's the 'ute of machine guns
NZer here. My partner's father was in the army years back. He spoke fondly of the L1 and L2 FALs. He said they were heavy and kicked a bit, but whatever you hit certainly knew about it.
And that my Kiwi friend, is the way that it should be. Knock 'em down for good.
'Heavy'? 'Kicked a bit'? They were the correct weight and had enough recoil. Anything lighter is for wimps.
That’s because anything under .30 cal is what we call a poodle shooter , 7.62x51 always drops whatever it hits 👍👍👍
It's worth noting that Malaysia, or Malaya as it was known at that time, hosted a significant presence of Commonwealth forces during the 1960s. My father fought in theatre there for three years, and then Vietnam, and he recalled fondly the L1A1 and the L2A1. As a fairly short guy he commented just how tame the L2A1 was to shoot compared to other machine guns available to them at the time. They also had a hazing exercise with these rifles - you'd run a magazine or two through the rifle, then after it had heated up enough, they'd pick up a spent cartridge and burn a mark in their forearm. But an absolutely staple of the Australian Army and a gorgeous example. Thanks for the in depth review!
Indeed! My late uncle served in the Malaya conflict and then multiple tours in Vietnam too. He spoke very little about his service. It’s good reminiscing again.
SKay cool
I did not know that they imported such a gun into Malaysia.
Yup. We owe this to Henry Briggs to some extent
"When I was just a lil wee receiver, they said I could grow up and become anything....SO I'VE BECOME A BAR LIKE MY GRAMPA!!!!"
No kidding. Lol. I was thinking the same thing. I wish Ian would state the weight of guns. I know he can't take a scale with him, but weight is probably mentioned in his research. I imagine it is a lb or 2 lighter than the BAR.
Ian, you totally nailed pronouncing Lithgow, you're now officially one of us...
Never saw a L1A2 during my time in the Army but did manage to score two of the 30 round mags. Loved them and never had a feeding problem even with the plastic blank ammo.
I live in Lithgow and am delighted to hear you finally saying it right 💪💪💪
Im on just the other side of the blueys, Always love driving out your way, views are always great. But man its cold there
Mr. Armorer: supersize me baby!
“You sure about that son”...
Funny you say that. In Vietnam the SASR gave their L1A1 rifles to their armorers and they converted them to automatic, cut down the barrel length and put front grips on them and gave them 30 round mags. They called it "the bitch."
@@jeffveraart2695 often with an underbarrel m203, because the rifle wasn't heavy enough.
@@jeffveraart2695 I know of that gun because of the NIArms weapon pack for ArmA 3. They called it the 'L1A1 Chopmod' and I'd always run it when the FAL was mandated to us for a mission
Love your reviews. I’m sure in Australia these were L2A2 in Australia. Loved shooting these at Pukapunyal when i was in the CMF.
In Canada we used lots of these. Our infantry platoon/section tactics were based around a section being broken down into a C2 (as it was called in Canadian service) group and a maneuver group. Two C2s and he section 2ic would form a fire base and the rest of the section would form a maneuver element in the attack.
Canadian version had an open body cover with a charger guide for loading with stripper clips, but it didn't work all that well, and wasn't really used. Unless we were using war stock ammo, which we only did in the end of it's service days our ammo didn't come on stripper clips. We always were issued 30 rd mags with the C2 and I never had a problem with them and I never heard anyone saying they were not reliable.
I imagine the original intent of this gun was to be a light version of the Bren gun, which is how we used it tactically. The problem was without the weight of a Bren and the quick change barrel, they just got really hot really fast. It didn't take long before they got so hot that you'd try to shoot a short burst and the entire mag would cook off, which didn't help with the overheating.
The L2A2 was never used as a section weapon. Once 7.62 was introduced the infantry section MG was the GPMG M60. The L2A2 was given to support units like R.A.E., R.A.E.M.E, Wheelies and Arty for local defence. The L2A2 was never well regarded, its limitations were well understood. I always assumed it was bought to keep production going at Lithgow for political reasons (regional employment).
@@graemesydney38 By this time the infantry was all mechanized, so the dismounted section used this gun and the carriers were equipped with the machine gun C5, which is a Browning 1919 modified to fire 7.62 from standard NATO disintegrating link belt. It was a total piece of crap that was horrible compared to the WWII era .30 Browning. They were often dismounted in the defence or for patrolling but with a separate tripod they were awkward to carry. The C5 was eventually replaced by the FN MAG 58, at the same time as the C2 was replaced by the FN MINIMI, and the C1 (standard FN SLR) was replaced by the M16 (C7 in Canadian service)
Yes I to loved the C2. The FN was such a great weapon. I think the C2 barel was heavier though. I always wondered why the barrel was not a quick change one.
This video is most interesting to me in the context of your video on the Swedish BAR: namely that the M240/FN MAG is a BAR that looks nothing like a BAR (I had wondered for years why nobody ever put a belt feed on the BAR action....had no idea). To me, the demonstration of different ways in which mechanical designs and purposes intertwine to create new combinations in a changing landscape is absolutely fascinating, and the part of your work that may have the most lasting value. It isn't just a study on how smart people design guns over time, it's a study of how people and ideas adapt to one another and to the world over time. The thing that really sets military small arms apart from studying, say, the history of bridge construction, is that the use settings are far more chaotic and variable, the designs are less uniform, the number of independent participants is greater, but the amount of money and effort spent is at least comparable. You see similar things with aircraft (i.e. fewer distinct roles, fewer participants and more uniformity).
Thanks for the great work.
How the hell did you write this 2 week's ago?
@@readmore8302 It must be Patreon
lithgow museum is well worth the visit
I literally just learned about this thing yesterday playing Rising Storm 2.
My fav gun to use in the game
@@davidmarcello1165 likewise, shit smacks so hard
That game smacks, love using the mosin and m2 carbine, so satisfying
@@Jack.Offerman wtf are you trying to say?
@@Jack.Offerman what?
played the enemy with SLR L1A2 on army exercise against 2nd transport company, in Pucka ,way back in the 80sfull of blanks with an attached BFA 40 rounds mag and 5 full mags,it was great fun opened up fully auto standing position took over a week for my shoulder to stop hurting
Trained with them in Malaysia as a RAAF base combatant member 86 to 88 30 round magazines all the way. 3 to 5 round bursts. Set up in ambushes as a lmg
I'm so happy that you're pronouncing Lithgow correctly
Ian needs to get a bunch of these, a number of ANZAC types and run some Aussie Peel drills for us.
My favorite .308 cal battle rifle. I purchased 5 Australian L1A1 Kits back in the early 90s at a great price. I was able to put Imbel receiver's on all but one, which I still have. And plan on getting a receiver for this kit really soon. Fantastic rifle & I prefer them over my AR-10
The hold open can be re fitted to Aussie rifles. It was done by armorers in Vietnam. The manual hold open is very useful on parade for “for inspection port arms” as it is tiring holding the action open until it is inspected. Often a couple of tracers would be loaded before the last round and you were taught to keep count of your rounds as you let them go.
Ian, thank you so much for showing us all the L2A1, the rifle I was issued in the Australian Army in 1984-85
A couple of points: The bipod when it was being used as a handguard didn't seem to wobble as much as the one you have there. We were always required to carry the weapon with the bipod folded at all times except when shooting prone.
10:00 I was issued 30 round magazines for it. I was not to lend those magazines to anyone with an L1A1, and I ran the gas system with the plug fully closed, so it kicked like a mule, but ran smoothly. Perhaps the change in issuing 30 round magazines came after I was on the M60 instead?
Not sure what the Aussies were doing with them that late. NZ had these from the 60s though to the replacement by the M16 and then the Steyr. The mag that was issued with NZ ones was always the 30 round mag. The rear sight on the NZ ones were different as well. A much better sight was fitted. They were banned for issue in competitions......
@@davesherry5384 The L2A1 was issued to non-infantry units, and also used in officer training back in the early 80s. They were pretty rare, and were replaced by the Steyr along with the L1A1 (that happened just after I was medically discharged due to a leg injury)
yay slr, love seeing you doin Australian guns
Rifles son.
The heavy barrelled full auto bipod version was actually an L1A2. The Australian SASR used a modified version of this weapon during the Vietnam War by cutting down the barrel back to the bipod for jungle warfare. This modification changed the sound of the weapon when firing which made it sound somewhat like an American M60 deceiving the NVA / VC into thinking they were encountering a larger sized force than the SAS patrol.
I love learning that these beautiful things where once made here 🇦🇺
More fun was shooting them
Lithgow is still making nice guns.
Lithgow makes the F88s and EF88s that the Army uses.
Sad to know ill never be able to shoot or own one
Far from beautiful in terms of purpose and function.
at 10 mins you inaccurately state that the Aussies scrapped the 30rd magazines, we used them right up till this weapon was removed from service in the mid 90s mate. We didn't keep the curved L4A4 mags (bren) as we went directly to the straight 30rd mags but they slanted forward slightly to aid loading of ammunition into the rifle, whomever told you we got rid of the 3ord mags is full of crap. the scale of issue for this weapon was 10 x 30rd mags or 15 x 20rd mags - the same as for the L4A4 Bren LMG.
G'Day, Used these as an Able Seaman Radio Operator Submariner on Aussie Oberon Class Submarines in the 1970's. Our small arms complement was 2 x L2A1's 8 x F1 SMG's, some 9mm Hi Power Brownings and two Auto Shotguns....Doing Boardings the Signalman [RO] on the Fin would have an L2A1, with the other one manned by a Seaman type in the Accommodation Space hatchwell. For covering fire if needed...the Borders would get F1's and Shotties....I argued with the Torpedo Officer He needed to get O Boats issued with a belt fed 30 Calibur for the Bridge but nooooo....[The army had Browning 30 Cals for the M-113's and Tanks]....but nooooo.
Great video. I carted an L1A1 around in the Australian army for two years in the early seventies. The L2A1 was always featured in our infantry training manual, but I never actually saw one. The American made M60 GPMG was the section fire machine gun at the time and apart from the occasional over heating problem was a great weapon to deal with the bad guys.
This weapon was relegated to rear echelon and support unit use, with the M60 being adopted and used for frontline infantry combat use. The poor experience with the AR (Automatic Rifle), as these were known in Australian service led to Australia not selecting the heavy barrel option of the Steyr when it was introduced. Still used them in the mid to late 90's though.
My experience as well, but I was a gunner for a bit in a University Regiment, and we used them when we didn't have enough M60's. I did a bit of live ammo on them with 30 round mags later on in a support unit, always 30. 1500 rounds in one arvo gave sore shoulder for a fortnight. Much worse for that than the 60.
M60 and L7 GPMG (from 1962) were used for first line infantry combat. M60 was adopted first in 1960 and used in VN, L7 was adopted later for use in Borneo, West Malaysia and Singapore. Presumably common logistics with partner forces was a consideration. Later, in the mid eighties the MAG58 replaced the M60, later still, the L7 were modified for increased parts compatibility with the MAG58.
I handled and fired one of these in the early 1970's in Aust Army. It had "AR" stamped on the left side of the receiver and was told it stood for "Automatic Rifle" and it had experimental features on it. I thought the Bipod that became the hand guard, when folded upwards and locked in, was a unique feature.
Appreciate the pronunciation of Lithgow Ian!
Oh bugger, it didn't last long
You've come good again, hooray.
You're not just alternating are you?
Maybe he should just GO to LithGOw.
@@Rintaro88 only slipped sort of, once 😉
@@Rintaro88 "Alternating" pronunciations are Ian's tribute to ACDC
The ones in Australian service did not have the L1A1 rear sight, but an adjustable rear aperture mounted to the dust cover. Also, throughout my service I never saw an L2A1 with twenty round magazine fitted, They exclusively used the 30 round magazine which of course was interchangeable with the Bren magazine. The difference was that the Bren mag had a slight kink or curve in it, whereas the 30 round magazine made for it was straight, just like a twenty. I used them on a number of occasions but never experienced the problems you speak of. They did apparently wear the magazine catch because of the extra magazine weight. I liked it. It was a bugger to carry but a pleasure to use,
The Brazilian Army (Exército Brasileiro) used this weapon until recently, as the FAP (Fuzil Automático Pesado, Heavy Automatic Rifle). It was succeeded by the FN MAG (M971 in brazilian military service) and the FN Minimi.
Igual que en Argentina!
I was in the RAAC in the Aus army where the L2A1 was used. We used 30 round mags the whole time I was in the army.
Everyone in my family talked shit about the Styer, but compared to the SLR I see where they're coming from. And aside from the oldest (who used the bren and smle and that era of weapon), they all used the SLR. Cool gat. Nice vid Ian 👍
Just to point out, I posted this before fully watching the video. I had no idea that this pattern existed at all I had initially assumed it was just an update because I knew it was in service for ages. Really interesting stuff.
These were still used in the RAN in the late ‘80s, lots of fun to shoot and full-auto was never discouraged! I remember doing a night shoot with 1/3 tracer rounds at Bindoon because we had an excess(6000 rounds!) of ammo that had to be used up!
As soon as I finish talking about the FAL with someone.
Ajmo zemo!
My old man worked at the Lithgow SAF/ADI for 15 years and during the Vietnam war as a First Class Machinist and leading hand tool setter, he’s got many stories of the place. Probably handles some of the components on that very rifle or at least set up the machines used to manufacture the components.
We were using 30 round magazines with a our L2A1 in the Australian Reserve in the early 80s ...
What a beaut'! I've never seen one of those heavy-barreled FAL's before, thanks for sharing GJ!
The handguard/bipod combination is a really nice feature.
But crap to use.
During my time in the military, I never came across these. We did use the humble SLR, which I still reckon is the best. Anyone hit with a 7.62 round did not move or run away like they did with a couple of 5.56 rounds in them. We did try these on Auto, by making a few changes with the trigger housings, but were not impressed as ammo depleted far too quickly. We reset them back, to semi auto. Very happy with the SLR.
As a cadet in the 90’s we used to train with these I was scrawny and remember it being heavy af
I learnt to shoot at RAAF base Edinburgh while I was in the Air Training Corp.
Then the first firearm I purchased was an L1A1
What a gorgeous weapon! A FAL turned up to 11!
I was in the ADF in the early days when they transitioned from the SLR to the Steyr. I got to shoot the L2A1 a couple of times ( but mainly used the M60 ), it was accurate but it love chewing through the mags. This video brought back memories.
the sheer excitement I get when I see a FAL video is probably unhealthy
I love the FAL so much, my favourite gun by far
Gotta love some FAL goodness! I mean, if you’re going to have a select fire FAL, it may as well be a heavy barrel, bipod version.
Edit: does this make the RPK the only really successful post-war Heavy Automatic Rifle?
Isnt the m27iar the only other one
@@mrs.vasquezz thats only been in service.like.3 years though?
@@fruitylerlups530 still successfully deployed and "post war"
RPK is something else, since it fires intermediate round. That alone changes the type and application of the weapon. This L2A1 is closer equivalent to BAR than anything, or, very distantly, Bren.
edit: there's another weapon I recalled that is close to this one - the StG57. despite it not looking very slick, it was actually a very good weapon, and was basically what L2 should be.
@@czwarty7878 well its not about caliber but about putting an infantry rifle into a squad automatic weapon variant
Dear Sir the large headed screw that connects the Trigger Mechanism Housing to the Receiver is in the wrong way round on your rifle . The large screw head should be on the cocking handle side because otherwise the other end can cut you when cocking the weapon. The screw goes through the safety sear and catches on it when you assemble it correctly, it is easier to put in incorrectly. But with a bit of trial and error it will go in the right way . PS love all of you excellent videos
Aaaaaaah - that was my bundoo back in my Army Reserve days! Australian Light Horse used them in assault trooper rifle sections. A beautiful weapon.
4th/19th PWLH here, from 91-92 !! We still had the 'AR', SLR, and me on the '60! If memory serves me correct... the AR always had a bigger mag than an SLR. And the bipod was easier to reach aswell over the '60.
ADF issue weapons had the longer ramp sights instead of the regular L1A1 sights that you have. prob because this was based and built on the L1A1 receiver.
Common Australian practice with the SLR was to put a tracer as the second last round in the magazine. When you saw the tracer go the magazine was empty.
In SVN, one of the first things we did was to insert the pin back in the bolt hold open device. We then installed the full auto function, cut of the flash suppressor and put a front pistol grip on the weapon.
We still used these in the early 90s in The Australian Army when I was in. We just called it the AR.
Yes commonly that's all we knew it as..
These were still in use in the mid 90's for reserve units until the F88 was fully rolled out and then most of them were removed from service.
SLRs were used by cadets right up until the mid-90s. I believe some units still have decommissioned SLRs for ceremonial use too.
Any chance of comming across the "Bitch" version with the cut off barrel and XM148 used by the Austrailan SAS?
My thoughts exactly.
SASR armourers were mad scientists of the first order... all about making the enemy think “What the Fu(# just hit us” didn’t hurt if it scared the S#1t out of the Septics at the same time🤣
I know of one in a collection in New Zealand, purchased from NZSAS. US import laws would require it to be cut up...
In Australia the L1A1 was referred to as an SLR, not a FAL. As in self loading rifle.
I'm told in Vietnam, this rifle with the 30rd mag was used to dump fire at the enemy when ambushed.
Maybe, although I was told most no.1 scouts used the F1, M16 or a Shotgun depending on terrain for contact
Hi Ian, excellent video as usual. I carried the C2 for a number of years until it was official replaced in Canadian service by the Minimi (C9). It was normally issued with 3-4, 30 rnd magazines along with the rifleman's standard complement of 5, 20 rnd magazines. It was normally carried with the bi-pod unfolded with your support hand holding one of the legs and a 20 rnd mag fitted. Common SOP at the time was to drop to the prone in order to return fire. Much easier when the bi-pod was already deployed. The 30 rnd mags were normally used in the defensive role as they hindered mobility but could deliver a greater rate of sustained fire. Automatic fire was generally used in counter ambush drills, everything else was repetitious fire. This weapon was particularly accurate. With the rear disc sight, you could reach out further than the standard C1. It was used in this role more often than as a 'automatic support weapon'. Having the bipod also made it easier to load the mags with stripper clips because it was more stable and you could use both hands to load.
Did they issue you the C2 "bra" chest mag holder? It wasn't very comfortable and you stood out in a crowd but it really made sure you had some ammo when you went to work:) We would also carry spare mags in an old pattern small pack, very useful for all kinds of things. We trained using auto fire in short 2-3 round bursts as suppressing fire and to cover an assault or withdrawal, trigger finger was named "finger, trigger C2" :) I remember the accuracy, you could do some fancy semi auto shooting at the range.
@@joeinfax4190 still have it actually, along with my C1 and SMG mag pouches. I still have my 82 pattern webbing set up for the C7/C9 as well. Carrying the C2 was a bit of a pain but a lot easier than the C5. I remember trying to carry as many mags as possible. As a 'rifle', it still ate up a lot of ammo. When I was in Petawawa, the Riggers would sew up bandoleers so we could carry 5 extra 20 rnd mags loaded instead of carrying loose rounds in boxes. I always thought it was crazy accurate compared to other rifles of the time, even without optics. I trained a lot in Germany and got to use the G3 and the MG3 a fair bit. I still prefer the C1. I love the C6, but the MG3 is a pretty stellar piece of kit too.
@@damianbonin59 C2 bra would be a great souvenir, if you have spares send one to Ian, it would be hilarious to see him at the range wearing one while he fired the C2:) Ya, the box ammo was always a pain, the last time I saw the bandolier ammo in clips was in Germany in 77, we kept the charging clips from the range from years earlier when we first started seeing the boxed ammo. I think the Airborne had the mag bandoliers back in the 70s, great idea that would still be handy for any mag fed rifle. The biggest reason why the FN and the G3 were such good shooters was the round, still see .308 being used on the hunting shows for those long moose shots.
@@joeinfax4190 Germany was good times.
@@damianbonin59 Jagerschnitzel mit pomme frites und ein grosse HofbrauhausHatz, bitte!
Soldier: Want MG.
Brass: How about an unsighted DMR prototype?
Soldier: BRA-A-AP
Brass: No, no. Not like that. Slowly. Slow-ly.
Solider: ...
Brass: FINE. Mag-58?
Soldier: *happy belt-fed noises*
The only thing I didn’t like about the MAG was how heavy it was for a light infantryman. Shoots great, very reliable and very accurate for an open bolt MG. But when the PKM is something like 10 pounds lighter, my ground pounding ass got a little wistful.
There's still an argument to be made for the familiarity of a common rifle pattern, but that argument is easily drowned out by the bark of this here M60 with Tactical Bean Can Feed Assistor (that isn't a joke, a common solution to the feeding problems of the M60 was to rig up a tin can beneath the feeder so that it _could_ be used without an assistant gunner, although reloading was still a pain for one person to manage)
These things were insanely accurate on the bipod. Mine had the option for a slide-cover mounted C2 scope. The smallest grouping (5 rnds) I've ever seen by an auto weapon burst.
Certainly not my experience with the C2 in Canada. They were OK in Repetition, but in Automatic it was first round of the burst in the general area of the target, and the rest of the burst scared birds in flight! Not my idea of a good weapon.
Ah all those happy memories of being in the green machine in the 70’s....
the more and more i see FAL related videos the more and more its becoming my dream gun.
By today's standard they are heavy and hard kicking. Just like the G3 which I happen to love for exactly those reasons...
We also had the R1 heavy barrel in service in South Africa during the war in South West Africa
I have a 10 round ceremonial mag for R1 / L1R1
L1a1
In Canada we called this the C2. The standard issue semi-auto rifle was the C1.
Heavy Calibre. Decent enough handling. Can chop down trees like an Ak.
And it was rugged and tough. Great weapon in the jungle.
My grandfather worked in the Lithgow arms factory. Before he died he gave me a large metal tin full of different caliber bullets and gun parts he used to make.
I can't think of anything more Australian than selling all our good stuff off overseas and leaving our own with bare minimum leftovers.
Haha, yeah you guys are fairly stupid alright
Why would we need them ?
The "problems" with the 30 round mags came from trying to use the Bren gun mags on the L2A1.
Bren mags had a slightly weaker spring because they fed from the top, so when we used them in the rifles we had issues with feeding.
Tried various things and this was the only reason we could find. Turned the rifle upside down with a Bren mag and worked great so mag springs had to be the problem.
Could you do a video of shooting the L2A1 upside down...please...
The bipod reminds me of the Steyr Scout
I used the Canadian FNC2 you could burn your fingers when using the bipod as a forestock. Don't recall issues with our 30rd mags, we also got issued a 4 mag "Bra" that strapped to your chest. Fun and accurate guns. We were taught to use them both in semi and using 3rd bursts to protect the barrel from overheating. This was a cheap replacement of the Bren.
Canada never abandoned the 30 round magazine for the C2. Used them into the 80's
The L2A1 was still issued in the early 90s in Australia we had them aswell as 7.62 Bren guns and M60s, the above 3 were phased out with the introduction of the Steyr F88.and the Mag58. The only time I used or saw L2s being used we had the straight 30 round mags. The bren mags would also fit however they had weak springs as there designed for top feeding so were not to be used.
The SAS also used L2s in Vietnam with the barrels shortened just in front of the gas system and no flash hiders.
The gun in the thumbnail resembles a late 6l - 8l series C2A1 in that it has the detachable front sight wings. It looks like the same front bipod with the same ridiculous catch too.
I used one in the Australian Army during the 80's and 30 round mags were issued as standard. We used to "loose" them and keep 1 or 2 for our standard SLRs - particularly if you knew how to jack one up to full auto :)
The bayonet lug makes me think some commonwealth officer is going to form his men in a square to fight off cavalry attacks. Since I couldn't imagine trying to actually swing this thing around might as well use it as a pike, :p
like the argentinian FAP... a heavy barreled FAL used as the squad support weapon/ automatic rifle / light machinegun
I saw members from 16 Air defense Regiment accidently burn one on a exercise once. They got it out the fire bent like a banana lol.
Probably doing no favours to the Adgees' reputation for brains.
@@yowie0889 Sadly they weren't Adgies. They were drop shorts with Rapiers
How the hell did that end up in a fire? A lot of someone's had a lot of explaining to do.
@@markfryer9880 They turned a weapon pit into a fire pit. Dumped a whole heap of rubbish into it without looking.
As far as I can remember we Australians always had these with 30 round mags. Comfortable with my SLR rifle (lighter semi version), in SVN during 1970. Fired the L2A1 heavy and the M60 on night shoots into the South China sea and loved the spectacle of the tracers bouncing away off the water. Can still remember the sight of "Puff the Magic Dragon" hosing off the countryside and hills with tracers at night. The 9mm F1 sub machine gun was a joke and not much better than throwing a hand full of small stones. Many of our infantry preferred the M16 for patrolling.
yes the F1 was a shit weapon...climbed all over the place. M16 or pump action for scouts.
Bit of a frankengun, with interesting history on the bits & parts.
Google the SASR L1A1 "The Bitch". Now that's a frankengun. In Vietnam the SASR gave their L1A1 rifles to their armorers and they converted them to automatic, cut down the barrel length and put front grips on them and gave them 30 round mags.
Note that the carry handle is slightly different to that of the L1A1 to allow for the change in the centre of gravity with the heavier barrel of the L2A1. Minor point, but still for those who are picky, it could be significant.
Also, every L2A1 weapon I saw (in 25 years service in the Australian Army), had a 30-round magazine. A lot of Infantry guys would "liberate" the 30-round L2A1 magazines for use with their L1A1 weapons. It was frowned upon, but it did happen. The 30-round magazine was a much sought-after commodity in the Infantry battalions.
Aussie, Aussie, Aussie! S - L - R ! / Aussie - S! / Aussie - L! / Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, S - L - R !
Ya bogan 😄😄
At basic training ( boot camp ) it was presented as a light machinegun although I never saw it in the field. I only ever saw the M60 carried as a GP machinegun.
This is what the BAR was intended to be? Or an upside down BREN?
Make it 4K Ian, it’s 2021 already. Much appreciate