Personal experience. I have a 1994 wildcat 700 efi, pull start, starts 2 pulls every time. Once the efi stops working on it the sled is toast but she’s got a few years under her belt with no problems so far.
Hi Syb3r2o0th....I'd agree with ease of repair. Carbs are a pretty simple mechanism, no sensors or other complicated electronics...then again EFI is easy to fix, just replace a component. Not always cheap, and diagnosing EFI can be tough. EFI, when it's working properly, is much more reliable....when it works the way it should..definitely plusses and minuses to both. I go back and forth...thanks for watching and commenting.
I’ve had sdi 04, and now have 07 800ho carb hands down the carb is more reliable as they age, what I’m saying is carb is a better option when the sleds are 10+ years old
Actually you can adjust carbs, you can change jets and needles, I’ve used both and found I can dial in better performance on my carb by adjusting the needles and jets to specific situations. Usually getting top performance out of the motor. EFI is still good and has less maintenance but you are limited on adjustments. Some EFI’s are BETTER than others. EFI does vary from brand. So depending on what brand you buy really depends on the EFI. It’s really a personal preference but if you know what your doing on your carbs, they are hard to beat! The maintenance isn’t really that bad!
Hi Scott, I didn’t say you can’t adjust carbs…. I said “IT" can’t make adjustments for things like temperature and barometric pressure. The distinction I was making was accurate. A carburetor is a simple mechanical mixing device. I did specifically say you can change jets etc, but once it’s set it does its job, unlike an EFI system which utilizes sensors providing information in real time on temperature barometric pressure, engine speed and throttle position to deliver the required amount of fuel for the current operating conditions. The EFI System is designed and programmed to meet specific requirements, usually a blend of performance and emissions. Sure you can make adjustments to your carb, and you can change the programming on and EFI system. What you can’t do on a carb, is make changes to the way fuel is being delivered, on the fly as the EFI system does. As I said, there are advantages and disadvantage to both but the EFI system, functioning properly, will always deliver the correct amount and mixture better than a carb. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Hey Scott. Exactly. The whole point of that comment in the video is that the reason YOU have to swap jets, and make those adjustments is because the carburetor cannot. On the other hand, the EFI system can make a lot of other useful adjustments you can’t with carbs. - ECT sensor relays engine coolant temp to the EFI control module, which adjusts the mixture for cold or warm engine starting, so you don’t have to mess with a choke or primer. - Warmer air is less dense and needs less fuel to operate efficiently which can make carbs sleds like my 670 run rich when it warms up on a ride. On my 600 EFI the air Intake temperature sensor adjusts fuel delivery based on the temperature of the air coming into the engine. - EFI can adjust both the air/fuel mixture and timing to compensate for Knock or Detonation - which can damage an engine. - If an engine is running rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust gas / if its running too lean, there will be excessive oxygen. Based on the info from the 02 sensor the system will adjust the mixture accordingly. etc etc etc I love my MXZ 670 carb as well. It is solid, reliable and easy to maintain…But it just can't do any of these things, no matter how I tune the carbs. Anyway, thanks again for the comments. It’s been an education having both and learning the difference in problem solving each.
I'd take that 670HO of yours and delete the oil injection, add a 151x1.75. I got the skid track and extension material and turn it into a Logger with lower gears. I'd have the clutching and jetting changed for a set up I have in mind for a worksled.😁 I got a thing for the 583 and 670 Rotax Engines👍
Hi Bolt. My sled is just a 97 mxz 670. The 98 and 99 summit X's had the ho engine. The MXZ HO came out in 99. There is really no reason to delete the oil injection, its very, very unlikely to fail. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I got MXZ 800R 2009 Carb....honeslty very not costy to repair....all piece are cheap, that the big advantage. The second advantage is the simplicity of the sled.....not a lot of technology or electric system, so the sled dont broke each month.....and like i said, easy to repair.
I've always had carb toys. Bikes, sleds, atv's... Then I got a 2015 Polaris Sportsman ATV with EFI. The 570. LOVE IT. ONLY issue is if the battery is low, the machine will only idle. If you try to take off and drive with it, it'll go about 100 yards and stall - it doesn't produce enough power to both charge the battery AND run the fuel pump, injectors, computer, tail lights (always on), ect. That's the ONLY issue. Everything else was carbureted (sp?). I felt like I was constantly cleaning carbs. 3 bikes, 3 sleds. It was getting old. Then I got an 06 Polaris RMK 900 (not the best motor, I know...) which is EFI. Rebuilt the motor and had electronic issues - a weird air intake sensor reading. This lack of data to the computer made it think it was cold and it defaulted to the richest fuel map. Basically the sled runs on full choke, constantly. Even when hot. Long story short, the previous owner had put a splice in the sensor wire to make it longer. I removed the splice, soldered the wire together and finished with some dielectric grease and heat shrink tubing - the thing runs like a champ! Of ALL my family's toys, that big, unreliable, horrible production, paint mixer 06 Polaris 900 starts, ALWAYS, 3rd pull COLD, 1st pull warm. No electric start or battery. Yes - EFI may be trickier to diagnose, but once you figure the problems out and sort through them, there's no human error. The computer does EXACTLY what it needs to do, based on the sensors.... and while they aren't cheap to replace ALL of them, most of them are less than $50 and can be swapped out as quickly as spark plugs are changed... Plus they take up very little space in the 'spare parts' box and the failure rate is very low in comparison to potential issues with carb'd machines. I am now shopping a new dirt bike - and one of my requirements is that it be EFI. I'm done pulling off bowls! ... probably not. haha! My .02! Thanks for making the videos! My wife, son and I enjoy them quite a bit.
Well I sold my 2002 Polaris edge because it was getting harder to find new parts for it. I looked for carb boots and they are actually getting hard to find. Maybe because of covid issues and supply and demand not sure but even royal distributing didn’t have any. But that really wasn’t the reason I sold it. But it will be harder and harder to get parts.
My local Polaris dealership is selling me 4 injectors for 2000€ which is 2,191$... And the injectors are only about 1/7 of the EFI system. 😅 I know how to work on them but the amount of money that the EFI system can require is really not worth the benefits of the system in my opinion. Especially if you have to take it to a shop for someone else to work on it and also pay for the labor as well is just wasted money.
i dont ride all that much, maybe for a few hours at a time for a couple weekends out of the season, so carbs are for me personally. I like knowing that should something go wrong, I can resolve it myself. I tend to go for the older sleds anyway
A comparison of EFI and carbs is with our side by sides. I have a 660 and my nephew has a 700 EFI and I have a higher top speed but is harder to start than the EFI. But, both of us can go fast enough to scare any passengers.
Got a n artic cat 600 efi this year. I really miss having to prime and choke not to mention fouled plugs, flooded engine. it starts 2nd pull so I miss the workout and having to change the starter cord. throttle response is right on.
In my opinion (having both types, myself)....if there is a problem on the trail, the EFI will always leave you stranded. Serviceability out in the woods or on long trips is super important to me. If I'm close to home, EFI is great fun! If I'm going further out, carb = piece-of-mind. The K.I.S.S. rule still applies today.
Glad you liked it. Good luck. Check in and let me know what you bought. I did an old video on buying a sled, it was one of my first so needs updating but may help. Spoiler alert, check the track, the whole track, when you look at anything ;) th-cam.com/video/6lInvUjpWjI/w-d-xo.html
Yes in a perfect world I would agree that fuel injected sleds are more reliable and certainly better/more consistent running sleds. But there is a lot that can go wrong and can be a real pain to diagnose and or costly to repair.
Hi Plymco, on any world, they are a more reliable, better running sled. You’re right, They can be a pain, and some of the parts are expensive, but if the machine is looked after, they’re pretty unlikely to fail. I could trade my car in for a bicycle, then there’s almost nothing to fix...:) thanks for watching and commenting.
I had an 08 600 sdi and the tps sensor went last winter. Sled wouldn’t run for more than 30 seconds. Had to tow it out with my new sled. $400 fix. Sled sold for $3600 over the summer. Just a recent example.
I just bought the exact same 600 so I’m watching some old videos of yours. You said Sauble beach Motorsport, I’m from Sauble I bought my atv from them. Small world
I went carb for ease of maintenance and new sleds are like new cars when they get old they will be expensive to maintain cause of all their electronics their almost disposable like newer cars where a carb snowmobile will always be simple to fix.. fix it mostly yourself with very few tools
I haven't used it, but I know a lot of guys use it. I think any injector cleaner isn't a bad idea, but really a professional injector cleaning is probably the best way to go.
I’m still a carb guy, on my boat and my sled. If you maintain them, they’re super reliable. And easily serviced by yourself. EFI runs better, when it runs. One buddy of mine is always bragging about EFI and 4 strokes, yet his stuff always has issues. I bought a 2012 Skandic WT 550 fan, and after running SeaFoam through it, it works pretty good. -30’s it starts no worries. I go way back in the bush solo, and don’t relish the thought of needing a generator to start my machine. LOL. All that said, carbs need periodic love, but they are steady Bettys. Take care.
Hey BN60! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I get where you’re coming from. I’ll be picking up a portable power source just in case...but I’ll probably go smaller than a generator ;).
I think he is talking about a generator for powering a block heater on the 4stroke. Not just for boosting/charging battery. I know guys who drag generators around with their 4strokes when out in the bush solo for a long time.
My Old Sled yeah, lots of sleds here in Yellowknife are plugged in at home. Street legal here. Maybe do a 2 vs 4 stroke video, if you haven’t already? Keep the good stuff coming!
I was on an Edge chassis for 2 years with 2 different sleds. This year I bought a 2011 Shift IQ which is EFI. Can't go back, it runs so much smoother and throttle response is so much better. Honestly, the prices of the 2010's sleds are starting to get so low, you can get into EFI for the same price as a nice used carbed sled from the early 2000's. Theres no going back, EFI from here on out.
Thanks for the video - great info! I just purchased a 2006 MXZ 600 SDI and this helped clear up some questions I had. I found it inserting that my SDI sled needs a battery even though it does not have electric start. It all makes sense now though.
Hi Luke. While I agree starting a sled with a carb isn’t much harder than fuel injection, once you know how, that varies from sled to sled and greatly depends on a ton of factors, pretty much all of which an efi sled can compensate for. The main difference in terms of starting is efi doesn’t need a choke or primer, as it can automatically adjust the mixture to compensate for temperature. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Ah OK. I just got my first fuel injected sled. I haven't used the pull-starter yet to compare. I do remember endlessly priming citation ss, trying every choke configuration, and pulling about 100 times before it would start though 🤣
Way prefer EFI. I also prefer fan cooled. Sure wish I could get a fan cooled sled with EFI. Maybe that is another video idea, Fan vs Liquid cooled. Up here a lot of guys prefer fan because of the late season riding. I always had overheating issues with my liquid sleds.
I ride in the Northwest Territories. The liquid sleds with efi are way faster and more efficient. But they need snow. My liquid sleds would overheat because I was crawling through narrow trails and not getting snow on the heat exchanger. Or snow would build up on the heat exchanger, melt, then turn to ice leaving an air void preventing cooling of the sled. Then I would have to stop and cool the sled off and break the ice. Arctic cat was bad for this, skidoo was way better. Fan cooling is relatively trouble free but half the power.
Yeah for sure liquid cooled sled will work better when your throwing lots of snow up onto the heat exchanger. There are lots of fan cooled sleds that run really well. In both cases, the engine and its cooling system are designed to work together. I think the higher powered sleds require the additional cooling of a liquid cooling system. A fan cooled sled will cool less efficiently in warmer temps. Everything is a trade off...
I have a 600 sdi like you and my friends have the 583 and 670 models and if we go out on a cold morning they are screwing with their primers and chokes and I just have to pull mine over once, and my throttle response is much better then theirs, however when my injectors break it will cost more that it will to fix theirs.
Just stay away from ethanol fuel with Carbed sleds.. It turns the jets GREEN and can turn the fuel into jelly in the bowl.. Run good gas and good oil, run stabil in the last ride or run of the year to treat the fuel system and fog your motor.. Clean power valves every 2 or three years depending on use. I run Klotz oil in my Formula 3 700 ski doo and the exhaust valves stay pretty clean even in 2 years of running!
I run 87 in my 1999 Yamaha, and my dad always ran 87 or 89 in his 2002 MXZ. We haven't really had any issues with the carbs over the years. Keep the sleds running once or twice in the summer, zero issues. Both machines have been quite reliable, people always think they need to clean the carbs every year and they really don't.
Its getting harder to avoid ethanol based fuel unless you you buy high octane that has no ethanol ,and that's only at Esso and Shell as far as I know .I use fuel stabilizer for marine/ ethanol based fuels ,then at the end of the season I siphon my fuel tank and put it in my car.
I have both a 99 MXZ 600 and a 18 polaris 600 efi. Both sleds are great but efi is the way to go. Theyre far more reliable. My 99 has 7000miles on it and its on its 3rd rebuild, my dad has an 09 mxz 600 etech with 7000 miles and its never been apart and is still on its original plugs
Id like to see a video with advice on how to prevent a snowmobile from going up in flames and how best to put out the blaze thanks my first mxz 670 went up in flames last friday my dad and i used our helmets tp throw snow on the fire but had to go get a shovel and finally got it snuffed out but it is unusable now thius topic will make a great video for you thanks
Biggest tip for you...inspect your sled thoroughly before each ride. Look for leaks or debris under the hood...animal nests are a bad one...in terms of putting out the blaze...let me noodle that one, but honestly, plastic and gasoline....pretty potent combination. Smothering with snow is probably most practical. But let me think on this. Thanks for watching.
the power output of a fuel injection sled is not necessarily higher matter of fact the sdi your sitting on had less HP then the mxz600ho carb version and noticeably different in performance and yet they made them in the same chassis some fuel injection systems are higher horsepower but not all
Hi Carly, The 594cc Rotax in the 2005 Ski-Doo MX Z Adrenaline 600 H.O. SDI that I’m sitting on, and the 594cc Rotax in the 2005 Ski-Doo MX Z Adrenaline 600 H.O. (carb version) were both 115 HP. If you look at newer models, the 2015 MXZ sport (carbed 597 cc) is rated at 110 HP, compared to the 2015 TNT etec version, (efi 594 cc) at 120 HP. It's hard to compare all models because there is different technology beyond just the carburetion type, but an EFI sled will, in general have "better" power output because it runs better more consistently, and its a more efficient engine over-all. Even if they are other wise identical engines, the carb cant adjust its fuel mixture for barometric pressure etc. Either way, both of them are more than fast enough for me :) Thanks for watching and commenting.
You'll have 5k in no time! I found this channel a while ago because I bought a 2001 MXZ 800 and this was my first sled so I was looking more information on how to work on them and what to expect. You have a knack for making videos that answers questions that I have. My brother has a 2003 Legend SDI so this kind of video is perfect for us.
Perfect timing of this video. Very informative. Looking forward to your carb cleaning vid. I am in the middle of a carb cleaning on my 2002 ski doo that hasn’t been started in 4 years.
Good luck I got my skidoo from 2003 running after 9 years! Runs great. Back when I was a kid I took it to get service twice. Problem wasn’t fixed. Took it out a couple months ago. Tore it apart and it was acting up because the gas line was disintegrating and getting sucked up into the carburetor and a rubber grommet was also bad. Replaced all the lines filters drained snd cleaned the tank runs great!
Same here although I have both EFI and Carbs my wife rides the Newer sled with EFI I ride my 1999 Skidoo Mxz 670 my wife's sled is a 2012 Skidoo Mxz 600 and we have a 1990 Skidoo Safari 470 our oldest son rides and I came across a package deal 1974 Skidoo TNT 440 and a 1976 Rupp 440 I started our youngest son out on our 1974 Skidoo TNT 440 and we started my younger brother out on the 1976 Rupp 440 for his very first sled and he loves it my dad and I picked up a Package deal 2 1994 Yamaha Exciter II 570's my dad rides the Black Sled and we started my Mom on the Red Yamaha Exciter II 570 my dad's has aftermarket exsust carbs new seat couple of of other Goodies that I can't think of right off the top of my head we also ride Three wheelers Quads Mini Buggys Dirt Bikes and Mini Bike my son and I Race Mini Buggys we have a couple Manco Dingo Buggys one I have had since My 5th birthday bought brand new and one my son Races we Also have a 2 seater Silver Fox Buggy we ride when we are going to be riding with a group of Side by Sides we go camping and riding with my cousins my boss an his family and a few friends you get the point I have been riding Snowmobiles since the age of 4 my dad started me on a 1980 Kawasaki Drifter 440 and I rode my dad's Long Track Mountain Rescue snowmobile Rupp 650 I got my first Manco Dingo Buggy at the age of 5 which I still have today I got my first Three wheeler at the age of 10 1984 Honda 125m rare Blue I have a 1984 Honda 200s I have a 1975 Dune Cycle Three Wheeler my older son rides my wife rides a 1997 Polaris Trail Boss 250 our son rides a 2006 Kazuma falcon 125 Yamaha raptor 350 look alike I have a street legal Baja Warrior 200 I have a few other big street Bikes and a couple other smaller scooters for the kids when they get older
Definitely perfer efi, most efi sleds start easy (if for some reason they don’t have an electric start, you can run then on there side or hell even upside down, they rarely fail if ever, they automatically tune themselves (amazing for hill climbing) and if they don’t you can usually tune them in less then a minute, etc
Thanks again for an unbiased and informative video. I own a carbureted sled and injected motorcycle. I love them both.. The sled that I own, was only available as a carbureted model, until 2019. I'm $1500 out of pocket for my 2001, where the 2019 was only offered in the Powersurge ordering program, and would have been about $18000. Bang for the buck, I'm more than happy with my choice.
@@MyOldSled I am so happy with the purchase of my 01 SRX 700. Unfortunately, mother nature hates Northern Ohio this year, so far. I bought all of the right gear to go riding this season. In the off season, I hope to do a complete tear down on the old Yamaha. If I was to tear it down now, we'd get snow..
I have a 01 skidoo formula deluxe 500 fan,has electric start any idea where the battery is located I just got the sled and I dont see it in the engine bay
Hi Alfred. Well, I guess you could...but after installing a new computer, throttle bodies, air temperature sensor, water temperature sensor, throttle position sensor etc etc...you’d probably wish you’d just sold your sled and bought a fuel injected one...
Do not run empty with an EFI sled ! And always use 91 non ethanol gas ! And always run them 3/4 full throttle in the trails but if going slow always blip the gas off and on ! EFI sleds run crazy lean ! Just my 2 cents !
@@MyOldSled Damn back to square one ! Nahh it's cause on my sled when i run it empty, I need to hook up a battery with cables to activate the electric fuel pump... It will not start the sled by pulling... So if you are out in the woods and go out of gas you are doomed, especially if you are alone ! And i'm doing better !
Hi Dave New subscriber from NH USA. Great videos. I just got my first efi sled,a 2000 zl 500. Only been a few miles with it but I can already feel the difference.in throttle response and smoothness of how it runs. I have owned carb sleds for forty + years,I can fix them in the dark trail side if needed. Huge advantage. My only fear is if there's a problem with efi. Thanks for the info,great channel Bob
My Old Sled WOW,fast response! Don't get me wrong,I am excited about the efi. Always like to learn. Just unknown territory for me. Just waiting for snow. Trail goes through my yard but we only have 4" of snow.
Awesome video and very well explained. We have both carbureted and Sdi but hands down the Sdi wins the battle for me. Easier to start and I find it runs a lot cleaner and more reliable. I noticed your from Ontario as well, I live north of Barrie so that is pretty neat Keep up the awesome content.
Hey Josh! Thanks my friend, I’m glad you liked it. Yes, few hours away but I love Barrie. Loads of restaurants! We are getting dumped on hard here right now.
@@MyOldSled I believe 2009 was the first 600 etec but your right they aren't cheap.. I just bought a 2015 mxz x package 800 etec for 9000 on Craigslist with 782 miles . Showroom condition... Maybe someday you will have one... They are definitely nice machines. Skidoo all the way.
Efi is a sealed system so water will not get in when it sits. Carbs are vented so water will get in. Efi is more likely to start up after sitting, but one of the many complicated components could fail suddenly during a ride. Almost all carb problems will show up when you try to start it, and a sudden failure while riding is far less likely than with efi. That said, efi has been around for a long enough time that the components are very reliable. While a repair to the efi system is more complex and costly, it's also far less likely to be required. You might want to inspect or test the injectors and pumps if you have the engine apart for a rebuild, but how often is that required on a non race sled? My vote goes to efi for maintenance because it's almost never required, also efficiency, consistency, power. Same reasons that all street and 4s dirt bikes are efi too. People want to press a button and go and get ideal efficiency and power in all conditions with no hastle and no fuel system maintenance. It's a no brainer as long as it's a well designed reliable system. I'd take a carb over a bad efi system, but those can be researched and avoided.
the only reason they say carbs arent as reliable is because people dont winterize their machines and expect them to start right up after sitting for a year.
Hey Dave! Love the videos, I just had a suggestion for one. Maybe you could do a video on 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, it could be a nice little sequel to this video in a way. Just an idea.
Have both a carb and efi sled efi is far better. i would not trust my carb sled if going somewhere with no cell reception or no where close to town, unless someone else is going with me who is riding an efi sled.
My professional small motor mechanic opinion. I’ve been a small motor mechanic for over 18 years. If you’re driving a carbureted machine you better clean those carbs every fall. If you don’t you’re Reading risk of a lien out. Your machine may idol just fine. But once you give her throttle she may start to lean out. I’ve had so many customers tell me oh it ran fine when I started it. And 5 miles down the trail they blew a piston. My professional small motor mechanic opinion. I’ve been a small motor mechanic for over 18 years. If you’re driving a carbureted machine you better clean those carbs every fall. If you don’t you’re Reading risk of a lien out. Your machine may idol just fine. But once you give her throttle she may start to lean out. I’ve had so many customers tell me oh it ran fine when I started it. And 5 miles down the trail they blew a piston.
Hi Peter. I asked two different skidoo service technicians that question, both advised that annual carb cleaning is excessive. Same place I got the advice to drain the carb bowls. I don’t disagree with you that cleaning them more often will reduce the likelihood of issues, but I am comfortable leaving it longer. If i rode thousands on thousands of km, maybe. Thanks for the comment.
I run 87 in my 1999 Yamaha, and my dad always ran 87 or 89 in his 2002 MXZ. We haven't really had any issues with the carbs over the years. Keep the sleds running once or twice in the summer, zero issues. Both machines have been quite reliable, people always think they need to clean the carbs every year and they really don't.
Thanks David, love your channel and what you have to say to us about the sport of snowmobiling and tips on how to keep stuff maintained on our machines. I bought my first Ski-Doo last year , it is a 900 Ace Renegade Enduro Rev/XS I'm loving the design and ride comfort. I have a question for you that has nothing to do with carburetors. My operators guide says - Electric start models only: never charge or boost battery while installed on snowmobile. Can you explain the reason for the warning? Thank you and keep up the great stuff here on This Old Sled. Cheers, John Leon
Hi John, sorry for the delay. To be honest I'm not 100% sure. I imagine it's to protect components in the electrical system against spikes as the manufacturer would have no idea what kind of charger you are using. When in doubt I always follow the directions in the manual. Sorry for the delay.
EfI has better advantage as far as not having to adjusting any jets, for temp and elevation, to where Carbs, you have to change the main jet, which is not all that hard to do, maintenance, Carbs are easier because EFI, you may have to buy new relays once in a while and can cost like hell, using fresh gas with a good stabilizer or SeaFoam, you are all set to go, I own both and this is a tongue twister to answer, both have ups and downs against each other. But as far as not having to choke or priming, EFI is the way to go
Good morning Dave,,Another excellent informative video. Speaking as a small engine mechanic / machinist and of course a avid snowmobiler. I think overall EFI for the win hands down.Especially with emissions theres no way in hell i can tune a set if carbs to be as clean for the environment as EFI. And thats what industry is majorly concerned with ,im just surprised that Doo even has a carbed sport MXZ model left. That being said.You'll always see carbs on drag racing machines mainly because they can be tuned for excessive and i mean excesive fuel flow,i seen fuel lines up to 7/8 diameter here in north bay at the radar runs.Without getting too technical,,,Try and run EFI with that much fuel and your going to need double to three times the pressure to regulate on a EFI fuel rails.Yeah for the average sledder just add some injector cleaner once a season,,i use lucas myself in my 2012 mxz 800,but yah add to the gas once a season ,and i add stablizer.and she good to go.
Anyone trying to say carbs are better at anything is most likely just not understanding how their efi systen works. They are Leary of what they don't understand. Might as well go back to spinning hard drives and wooden wheels.
When something new comes along it takes some people a little longer to get comfortable with it. I don't think that means they are wrong...being comfortable with a technology is a good reason to prefer it...for a while ;)
@@MyOldSled Absolutely agree. We all have things that we are that way about. Heck, my 3 year old will soon be having to keep me updated on new tech. I also suspect it has a little to do with how some new things truly are made worse, like clothing and a lot of appliances now are made so poorly they don't last, but the bad things make us hesitant of the new stuff that really is much better. As an auto mechanic, we almost never have repairs to do on the EFI system, and maintenance on the fuel system now is almost nothing compared to carb days where an annual tuneup and new plugs were just how it was. I've got two new sleds and an old RMK with a carb, I always know which one is going to be a bigger pain to start lol
As I explained in the video, with the older sled (they’re both mxz) I need to keep using the primer to keep it running. The fuel injected sled has no choke, and no primer, it just runs. On a colder day, it’s even more work. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Great simple explanation and comparison. IMO, EFI is great for the guy who keeps things stock and wants reliability. Carb is better for the guys who like to modify their sled and need to adjust the fuel/air mixture to compensate for mods. The big complaint I hear from the trail rider about carb sleds, is adjusting for temp. Holtzman Engineering makes a product called "Tempa Flow" that automatically compensates the fuel air mixture on carb sleds based on temp. www.holtzmaneng.com/carburetion-products
Hi Noah. I agree that fuel injection is better, thats why pretty much everything has gone that way. That said, I'm not sure it's fair to say carbs are trash - they're just older technology. Like I said in the video, there are reasonable opinions in favour of the carb for some riders. When I make videos, I try to remember owners who have a huge range of sleds. Since this channel probably has a fair number of subscribers with older carbureted sleds, I'm sure a lot of guys like them. If you're having fun, you've got a good sled. Not everyone can just go buy a new sled either. Thanks for watching and commenting.
And please video yer track change ! Want some mechanic advice?? heres some for free,,TIP THE MACHINE ON ITS SIDE=MUCH MUCH EASIER.I can change a 121 track in 2hours no problem,by myself.
I would say it all depends on what she doing with the snowmobile. If you’re racing it carbureted is the way to go. You can squeeze every last little tiny bit of power and of the machine. But if your trail riding it or riding in the mountains EFI hands down. I own both. My race sled is carbureted and my every day driver is a EFI.
Right now I have a 1000 Thundercat. My last one was Arctic Cat M7. 98 miles an hour in 660 feet. And that’s an efi My personal every day driver is a crossfire8. Yes I’m at Arctic Cat guy LOL I do love your old 670 though. Are used to have one and loved it. As far is draining your carbs. I don’t think that’s a good idea because your seals and everything else that needs lubricated in your carb gets dry. And when that happens you get leaks and all other kinds of things going wrong. And you’re talking rebuilding your carburetters then. Which isn’t crazy expensive but can be avoided. I suggest running stabilizer in your last tank of fuel. You’re best off to keep your fuel tank full during the summer. That way you don’t get no moisture in your tank. I normally run my sled every 2 to 3 weeks. Not necessary if you’re Reading stabilizer but I like to hear my toys Lol
Hi Larry, I agree with storing with a full tank of fuel to prevent moisture accumulating in the tank. I also recommend running fuel stabilizer in the tank. Good suggestions. My preference is draining the bowl, again on the advice of a skidoo mechanic, but I know a lot of guys feel the same way as you, on keeping parts wet. I can see the wisdom in both, but with today's fuels, I feel better draining them. That said, I do run the sled periodically through the summer anyway during the off season, so they aren't empty for the whole summer. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, really appreciate it.
Oh absolutely if you're riding in the mountains it's great. I guess you had to change jets in the mountains on the older sleds. You should post some pics on my Facebook page. Would love to see where to ride.
Personal experience. I have a 1994 wildcat 700 efi, pull start, starts 2 pulls every time. Once the efi stops working on it the sled is toast but she’s got a few years under her belt with no problems so far.
Att ha både carburetor och efi är troligen den bästa kombon tror jag.
I like single carbs better they are t easy to fix and more reliable
Hi Syb3r2o0th....I'd agree with ease of repair. Carbs are a pretty simple mechanism, no sensors or other complicated electronics...then again EFI is easy to fix, just replace a component. Not always cheap, and diagnosing EFI can be tough. EFI, when it's working properly, is much more reliable....when it works the way it should..definitely plusses and minuses to both. I go back and forth...thanks for watching and commenting.
I’ve had sdi 04, and now have 07 800ho carb hands down the carb is more reliable as they age, what I’m saying is carb is a better option when the sleds are 10+ years old
Hi Cody, lots of opinions on this. I lean the other way, but I’d own either. Thanks for commenting.
Actually you can adjust carbs, you can change jets and needles, I’ve used both and found I can dial in better performance on my carb by adjusting the needles and jets to specific situations. Usually getting top performance out of the motor. EFI is still good and has less maintenance but you are limited on adjustments. Some EFI’s are BETTER than others. EFI does vary from brand. So depending on what brand you buy really depends on the EFI. It’s really a personal preference but if you know what your doing on your carbs, they are hard to beat! The maintenance isn’t really that bad!
Hi Scott, I didn’t say you can’t adjust carbs…. I said “IT" can’t make adjustments for things like temperature and barometric pressure. The distinction I was making was accurate. A carburetor is a simple mechanical mixing device. I did specifically say you can change jets etc, but once it’s set it does its job, unlike an EFI system which utilizes sensors providing information in real time on temperature barometric pressure, engine speed and throttle position to deliver the required amount of fuel for the current operating conditions. The EFI System is designed and programmed to meet specific requirements, usually a blend of performance and emissions. Sure you can make adjustments to your carb, and you can change the programming on and EFI system. What you can’t do on a carb, is make changes to the way fuel is being delivered, on the fly as the EFI system does. As I said, there are advantages and disadvantage to both but the EFI system, functioning properly, will always deliver the correct amount and mixture better than a carb. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@MyOldSled ok you can still make all those adjustments just not automatically.
Hey Scott. Exactly. The whole point of that comment in the video is that the reason YOU have to swap jets, and make those adjustments is because the carburetor cannot.
On the other hand, the EFI system can make a lot of other useful adjustments you can’t with carbs.
- ECT sensor relays engine coolant temp to the EFI control module, which adjusts the mixture for cold or warm engine starting, so you don’t have to mess with a choke or primer.
- Warmer air is less dense and needs less fuel to operate efficiently which can make carbs sleds like my 670 run rich when it warms up on a ride. On my 600 EFI the air Intake temperature sensor adjusts fuel delivery based on the temperature of the air coming into the engine.
- EFI can adjust both the air/fuel mixture and timing to compensate for Knock or Detonation - which can damage an engine.
- If an engine is running rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust gas / if its running too lean, there will be excessive oxygen. Based on the info from the 02 sensor the system will adjust the mixture accordingly.
etc etc etc
I love my MXZ 670 carb as well. It is solid, reliable and easy to maintain…But it just can't do any of these things, no matter how I tune the carbs.
Anyway, thanks again for the comments. It’s been an education having both and learning the difference in problem solving each.
I'd take that 670HO of yours and delete the oil injection, add a 151x1.75. I got the skid track and extension material and turn it into a Logger with lower gears. I'd have the clutching and jetting changed for a set up I have in mind for a worksled.😁
I got a thing for the 583 and 670 Rotax Engines👍
Hi Bolt. My sled is just a 97 mxz 670. The 98 and 99 summit X's had the ho engine. The MXZ HO came out in 99. There is really no reason to delete the oil injection, its very, very unlikely to fail. Thanks for watching and commenting.
How would u compare your 97 mxz 670 to a 97 Yamaha vmax 600sx
I got MXZ 800R 2009 Carb....honeslty very not costy to repair....all piece are cheap, that the big advantage. The second advantage is the simplicity of the sled.....not a lot of technology or electric system, so the sled dont broke each month.....and like i said, easy to repair.
Yep, nice sled.
I have no thoughts on a fuel infection sled I’ve only had carb sleds. That said I have a sled from 1979 runs like a top
My 97 runs great. my only problem is finding parts. Things like pipes are near impossible to find.
I have carbs on my sled efi on my quad and id perfer carbs anything electical just 1 more thing to break btw great video dave
Thanks Kyle. Modern electronics seem harder to fix, but once you’re familiar with the basic systems, you can usually figure itnout.
Thanks bro
Youre welcome Justin. Merry Christmas.
I've always had carb toys. Bikes, sleds, atv's...
Then I got a 2015 Polaris Sportsman ATV with EFI. The 570. LOVE IT. ONLY issue is if the battery is low, the machine will only idle. If you try to take off and drive with it, it'll go about 100 yards and stall - it doesn't produce enough power to both charge the battery AND run the fuel pump, injectors, computer, tail lights (always on), ect. That's the ONLY issue.
Everything else was carbureted (sp?). I felt like I was constantly cleaning carbs. 3 bikes, 3 sleds. It was getting old.
Then I got an 06 Polaris RMK 900 (not the best motor, I know...) which is EFI.
Rebuilt the motor and had electronic issues - a weird air intake sensor reading. This lack of data to the computer made it think it was cold and it defaulted to the richest fuel map. Basically the sled runs on full choke, constantly. Even when hot.
Long story short, the previous owner had put a splice in the sensor wire to make it longer. I removed the splice, soldered the wire together and finished with some dielectric grease and heat shrink tubing - the thing runs like a champ!
Of ALL my family's toys, that big, unreliable, horrible production, paint mixer 06 Polaris 900 starts, ALWAYS, 3rd pull COLD, 1st pull warm. No electric start or battery.
Yes - EFI may be trickier to diagnose, but once you figure the problems out and sort through them, there's no human error. The computer does EXACTLY what it needs to do, based on the sensors.... and while they aren't cheap to replace ALL of them, most of them are less than $50 and can be swapped out as quickly as spark plugs are changed... Plus they take up very little space in the 'spare parts' box and the failure rate is very low in comparison to potential issues with carb'd machines.
I am now shopping a new dirt bike - and one of my requirements is that it be EFI. I'm done pulling off bowls!
... probably not. haha!
My .02!
Thanks for making the videos! My wife, son and I enjoy them quite a bit.
Hey thanks for the comment. Glad you're enjoying them.
Well I sold my 2002 Polaris edge because it was getting harder to find new parts for it. I looked for carb boots and they are actually getting hard to find. Maybe because of covid issues and supply and demand not sure but even royal distributing didn’t have any. But that really wasn’t the reason I sold it. But it will be harder and harder to get parts.
My local Polaris dealership is selling me 4 injectors for 2000€ which is 2,191$... And the injectors are only about 1/7 of the EFI system. 😅 I know how to work on them but the amount of money that the EFI system can require is really not worth the benefits of the system in my opinion. Especially if you have to take it to a shop for someone else to work on it and also pay for the labor as well is just wasted money.
i dont ride all that much, maybe for a few hours at a time for a couple weekends out of the season, so carbs are for me personally. I like knowing that should something go wrong, I can resolve it myself. I tend to go for the older sleds anyway
A comparison of EFI and carbs is with our side by sides. I have a 660 and my nephew has a 700 EFI and I have a higher top speed but is harder to start than the EFI. But, both of us can go fast enough to scare any passengers.
Jag har precis skaffat en skido grand tuoring rave 500.
Men nästa skoter blir nog!? En efi!?.
Got a n artic cat 600 efi this year. I really miss having to prime and choke not to mention fouled plugs, flooded engine. it starts 2nd pull so I miss the workout and having to change the starter cord. throttle response is right on.
In my opinion (having both types, myself)....if there is a problem on the trail, the EFI will always leave you stranded. Serviceability out in the woods or on long trips is super important to me. If I'm close to home, EFI is great fun! If I'm going further out, carb = piece-of-mind. The K.I.S.S. rule still applies today.
I prefer carb. Why. If 15 and can fix them better than anyone In my town. Efi I don’t know as much. I have both but like my carbs better
Hey Chev. Yep, definitely something to be said for the simplicity of a carb machine.
Thanks for the comment.
looking to buy my first sled. Super helpful, thanks!
Glad you liked it. Good luck. Check in and let me know what you bought. I did an old video on buying a sled, it was one of my first so needs updating but may help. Spoiler alert, check the track, the whole track, when you look at anything ;) th-cam.com/video/6lInvUjpWjI/w-d-xo.html
What should you do if your sled won pull over. What should you check and go over and look at
It actually won't pull over? Like you can't turn the motor? or it won't start?
Hi Nathan. Just checkin in on this. How did you make out.?
Yes in a perfect world I would agree that fuel injected sleds are more reliable and certainly better/more consistent running sleds.
But there is a lot that can go wrong and can be a real pain to diagnose and or costly to repair.
Hi Plymco, on any world, they are a more reliable, better running sled. You’re right, They can be a pain, and some of the parts are expensive, but if the machine is looked after, they’re pretty unlikely to fail. I could trade my car in for a bicycle, then there’s almost nothing to fix...:) thanks for watching and commenting.
I had an 08 600 sdi and the tps sensor went last winter. Sled wouldn’t run for more than 30 seconds. Had to tow it out with my new sled. $400 fix. Sled sold for $3600 over the summer. Just a recent example.
You paid 400 for a throttle position sensor?
...oh, did you take it to the shop?
My Old Sled
Yes I had taken it to shop and they went through it. Read code. Replaced sensor.
I prefer carb so I can easily clean and fix it, also I don’t have to worry about frozen batteries.
I hear you, makes sense...though I'm afraid eventually, the carb will disappear in sleds the same as they have on cars.
I just bought the exact same 600 so I’m watching some old videos of yours. You said Sauble beach Motorsport, I’m from Sauble I bought my atv from them. Small world
Hope you enjoy it! Thank for watching.
I went carb for ease of maintenance and new sleds are like new cars when they get old they will be expensive to maintain cause of all their electronics their almost disposable like newer cars where a carb snowmobile will always be simple to fix.. fix it mostly yourself with very few tools
Hi Stephen. Understand where you're coming from. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I answered a question i was goina ask. Seafoam. And i use stabilizer. But havent drained the bowl🤔. Enjoy ur videos.thanks
I haven't used it, but I know a lot of guys use it. I think any injector cleaner isn't a bad idea, but really a professional injector cleaning is probably the best way to go.
@@MyOldSled Seafoam is also supposed to be a fuel stabilizer as well as it's other benefits.
I’m still a carb guy, on my boat and my sled. If you maintain them, they’re super reliable. And easily serviced by yourself. EFI runs better, when it runs. One buddy of mine is always bragging about EFI and 4 strokes, yet his stuff always has issues. I bought a 2012 Skandic WT 550 fan, and after running SeaFoam through it, it works pretty good. -30’s it starts no worries. I go way back in the bush solo, and don’t relish the thought of needing a generator to start my machine. LOL. All that said, carbs need periodic love, but they are steady Bettys. Take care.
Hey BN60! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I get where you’re coming from. I’ll be picking up a portable power source just in case...but I’ll probably go smaller than a generator ;).
I think he is talking about a generator for powering a block heater on the 4stroke. Not just for boosting/charging battery. I know guys who drag generators around with their 4strokes when out in the bush solo for a long time.
Ahhh...it’s fun seeing different perspectives. I’ve never considered a block heater...
My Old Sled yeah, lots of sleds here in Yellowknife are plugged in at home. Street legal here. Maybe do a 2 vs 4 stroke video, if you haven’t already? Keep the good stuff coming!
I just bought a 95 summit 583 HAC Rotax and I was wondering why its so hard to pull start?. Is this normal
Yes. Its a common complaint. The 583 was a hard pull. I think it was the pull starter. Still should be two primes, two pull start.
I was on an Edge chassis for 2 years with 2 different sleds. This year I bought a 2011 Shift IQ which is EFI. Can't go back, it runs so much smoother and throttle response is so much better. Honestly, the prices of the 2010's sleds are starting to get so low, you can get into EFI for the same price as a nice used carbed sled from the early 2000's. Theres no going back, EFI from here on out.
Yeah, snowmobiler are the last holdouts. :) everything else has already gone efi.
MrSnowrocks we have 99 carb and efi, efi wins by a long shot. Also have a 2006 t660 turbo 4 stroke efi by far amazing
Isn’t the IQ shift is a carbureted sled?
Until it breaks down! I can fix my carbed sled!
There are diagnostic tools that can read the error codes on the newer sleds, that’s really the difficult part. I’ll be fixing my efi sled as well.
Always been into carbs but I'm going for EFI, a little more power, better throttle response and fuel economy is a must.
Yeah, really, everything is EFI now...
Thanks for the video - great info! I just purchased a 2006 MXZ 600 SDI and this helped clear up some questions I had. I found it inserting that my SDI sled needs a battery even though it does not have electric start. It all makes sense now though.
Thanks for watching and commenting. Glad you enjoyed it.
2 pulls to start carb, 2 pulls to start efi.
Hi Luke. While I agree starting a sled with a carb isn’t much harder than fuel injection, once you know how, that varies from sled to sled and greatly depends on a ton of factors, pretty much all of which an efi sled can compensate for. The main difference in terms of starting is efi doesn’t need a choke or primer, as it can automatically adjust the mixture to compensate for temperature. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Ah OK. I just got my first fuel injected sled. I haven't used the pull-starter yet to compare. I do remember endlessly priming citation ss, trying every choke configuration, and pulling about 100 times before it would start though 🤣
Now im confused. You said 2pulls to start carb…
We had 3 EFI sleds and a carberated one the EFI has faster throttle response and uses almost half the gas.
Way prefer EFI. I also prefer fan cooled. Sure wish I could get a fan cooled sled with EFI. Maybe that is another video idea, Fan vs Liquid cooled. Up here a lot of guys prefer fan because of the late season riding. I always had overheating issues with my liquid sleds.
Hmmm thats odd. Liquid cooling should be more efficient. Where do you ride?
I ride in the Northwest Territories. The liquid sleds with efi are way faster and more efficient. But they need snow. My liquid sleds would overheat because I was crawling through narrow trails and not getting snow on the heat exchanger. Or snow would build up on the heat exchanger, melt, then turn to ice leaving an air void preventing cooling of the sled. Then I would have to stop and cool the sled off and break the ice. Arctic cat was bad for this, skidoo was way better. Fan cooling is relatively trouble free but half the power.
Yeah for sure liquid cooled sled will work better when your throwing lots of snow up onto the heat exchanger. There are lots of fan cooled sleds that run really well. In both cases, the engine and its cooling system are designed to work together. I think the higher powered sleds require the additional cooling of a liquid cooling system. A fan cooled sled will cool less efficiently in warmer temps. Everything is a trade off...
My sportsman 570 is efi I love it wish my sled was
I have a 600 sdi like you and my friends have the 583 and 670 models and if we go out on a cold morning they are screwing with their primers and chokes and I just have to pull mine over once, and my throttle response is much better then theirs, however when my injectors break it will cost more that it will to fix theirs.
And I save 8$ every time we fill up at the gas station
Throttle response is far better with EFI. Thanks for watching Bro.
EFI for me! Thanks for the video Dave
Thanks for watching Dave!
The only time i would take a carb is out on the homestead .
Sorry dog, don’t follow. When would you take a efi?
Just stay away from ethanol fuel with Carbed sleds.. It turns the jets GREEN and can turn the fuel into jelly in the bowl.. Run good gas and good oil, run stabil in the last ride or run of the year to treat the fuel system and fog your motor.. Clean power valves every 2 or three years depending on use. I run Klotz oil in my Formula 3 700 ski doo and the exhaust valves stay pretty clean even in 2 years of running!
Larry W I typically use stabil at the end of the season but it doesn't work worth a shit
I run 87 in my 1999 Yamaha, and my dad always ran 87 or 89 in his 2002 MXZ. We haven't really had any issues with the carbs over the years. Keep the sleds running once or twice in the summer, zero issues. Both machines have been quite reliable, people always think they need to clean the carbs every year and they really don't.
I always run premium gas in my sled, but hey, keep doin what your doin if it works for you. Thanks for the comment.
Its getting harder to avoid ethanol based fuel unless you you buy high octane that has no ethanol ,and that's only at Esso and Shell as far as I know .I use fuel stabilizer for marine/ ethanol based fuels ,then at the end of the season I siphon my fuel tank and put it in my car.
I have both a 99 MXZ 600 and a 18 polaris 600 efi. Both sleds are great but efi is the way to go. Theyre far more reliable. My 99 has 7000miles on it and its on its 3rd rebuild, my dad has an 09 mxz 600 etech with 7000 miles and its never been apart and is still on its original plugs
Hi Andrew. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Id like to see a video with advice on how to prevent a snowmobile from going up in flames and how best to put out the blaze thanks my first mxz 670 went up in flames last friday my dad and i used our helmets tp throw snow on the fire but had to go get a shovel and finally got it snuffed out but it is unusable now thius topic will make a great video for you thanks
Biggest tip for you...inspect your sled thoroughly before each ride. Look for leaks or debris under the hood...animal nests are a bad one...in terms of putting out the blaze...let me noodle that one, but honestly, plastic and gasoline....pretty potent combination. Smothering with snow is probably most practical. But let me think on this. Thanks for watching.
the power output of a fuel injection sled is not necessarily higher matter of fact the sdi your sitting on had less HP then the mxz600ho carb version and noticeably different in performance and yet they made them in the same chassis some fuel injection systems are higher horsepower but not all
Hi Carly,
The 594cc Rotax in the 2005 Ski-Doo MX Z Adrenaline 600 H.O. SDI that I’m sitting on, and the 594cc Rotax in the 2005 Ski-Doo MX Z Adrenaline 600 H.O. (carb version) were both 115 HP. If you look at newer models, the 2015 MXZ sport (carbed 597 cc) is rated at 110 HP, compared to the 2015 TNT etec version, (efi 594 cc) at 120 HP. It's hard to compare all models because there is different technology beyond just the carburetion type, but an EFI sled will, in general have "better" power output because it runs better more consistently, and its a more efficient engine over-all. Even if they are other wise identical engines, the carb cant adjust its fuel mixture for barometric pressure etc.
Either way, both of them are more than fast enough for me :) Thanks for watching and commenting.
You'll have 5k in no time! I found this channel a while ago because I bought a 2001 MXZ 800 and this was my first sled so I was looking more information on how to work on them and what to expect. You have a knack for making videos that answers questions that I have. My brother has a 2003 Legend SDI so this kind of video is perfect for us.
Thanks beard.glad you enjoyed it.
Perfect timing of this video. Very informative. Looking forward to your carb cleaning vid. I am in the middle of a carb cleaning on my 2002 ski doo that hasn’t been started in 4 years.
Hey SM...Thanks for watching. Be patient, I have my sled apart at the moment.
Good luck I got my skidoo from 2003 running after 9 years! Runs great. Back when I was a kid I took it to get service twice. Problem wasn’t fixed. Took it out a couple months ago. Tore it apart and it was acting up because the gas line was disintegrating and getting sucked up into the carburetor and a rubber grommet was also bad. Replaced all the lines filters drained snd cleaned the tank runs great!
Well I should say there wasn’t any gas lol but we vacuumed it out and drained if there was anything
I prefer carburetor because it's simple and easy to fix
Hi Tommy. Totally hear you. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Same here although I have both EFI and Carbs my wife rides the Newer sled with EFI I ride my 1999 Skidoo Mxz 670 my wife's sled is a 2012 Skidoo Mxz 600 and we have a 1990 Skidoo Safari 470 our oldest son rides and I came across a package deal 1974 Skidoo TNT 440 and a 1976 Rupp 440 I started our youngest son out on our 1974 Skidoo TNT 440 and we started my younger brother out on the 1976 Rupp 440 for his very first sled and he loves it my dad and I picked up a Package deal 2 1994 Yamaha Exciter II 570's my dad rides the Black Sled and we started my Mom on the Red Yamaha Exciter II 570 my dad's has aftermarket exsust carbs new seat couple of of other Goodies that I can't think of right off the top of my head we also ride Three wheelers Quads Mini Buggys Dirt Bikes and Mini Bike my son and I Race Mini Buggys we have a couple Manco Dingo Buggys one I have had since My 5th birthday bought brand new and one my son Races we Also have a 2 seater Silver Fox Buggy we ride when we are going to be riding with a group of Side by Sides we go camping and riding with my cousins my boss an his family and a few friends you get the point I have been riding Snowmobiles since the age of 4 my dad started me on a 1980 Kawasaki Drifter 440 and I rode my dad's Long Track Mountain Rescue snowmobile Rupp 650 I got my first Manco Dingo Buggy at the age of 5 which I still have today I got my first Three wheeler at the age of 10 1984 Honda 125m rare Blue I have a 1984 Honda 200s I have a 1975 Dune Cycle Three Wheeler my older son rides my wife rides a 1997 Polaris Trail Boss 250 our son rides a 2006 Kazuma falcon 125 Yamaha raptor 350 look alike I have a street legal Baja Warrior 200 I have a few other big street Bikes and a couple other smaller scooters for the kids when they get older
cant have carbs in the mountains. run like shit and if you need to roll the sled you flood it
A fuel injected sled doesn’t need to be fixed
Definitely perfer efi, most efi sleds start easy (if for some reason they don’t have an electric start, you can run then on there side or hell even upside down, they rarely fail if ever, they automatically tune themselves (amazing for hill climbing) and if they don’t you can usually tune them in less then a minute, etc
Thanks again for an unbiased and informative video.
I own a carbureted sled and injected motorcycle. I love them both..
The sled that I own, was only available as a carbureted model, until 2019. I'm $1500 out of pocket for my 2001, where the 2019 was only offered in the Powersurge ordering program, and would have been about $18000. Bang for the buck, I'm more than happy with my choice.
Hey Mark. I love both of mine. Actually, I still feel like riding my old, carbureted '97 most of the time :)
@@MyOldSled I am so happy with the purchase of my 01 SRX 700. Unfortunately, mother nature hates Northern Ohio this year, so far.
I bought all of the right gear to go riding this season. In the off season, I hope to do a complete tear down on the old Yamaha.
If I was to tear it down now, we'd get snow..
dave do you use storage oil in cylinders or do you juss do like me and start them each month for about 5 minutes?
Hi Joe. I start them monthly.
I have a 01 skidoo formula deluxe 500 fan,has electric start any idea where the battery is located I just got the sled and I dont see it in the engine bay
I believe it is located behind the oil tank. I think you have to take the airbox off to get at it.
Can you switch from carb to full injection ??
Hi Alfred. Well, I guess you could...but after installing a new computer, throttle bodies, air temperature sensor, water temperature sensor, throttle position sensor etc etc...you’d probably wish you’d just sold your sled and bought a fuel injected one...
My Old Sled ok thanks
What year is your rotax 670
Hi Bill, It's a 1997 MXZ 670. Yours?
@@MyOldSled I've got a 1997 Ski Doo MXZ 440
Do not run empty with an EFI sled ! And always use 91 non ethanol gas ! And always run them 3/4 full throttle in the trails but if going slow always blip the gas off and on ! EFI sleds run crazy lean ! Just my 2 cents !
Doobyboy!!...What is up my friend? Unfortunately, I ran empty with my EFI sled today. I'll have to have a look at the gauge.
@@MyOldSled Damn back to square one ! Nahh it's cause on my sled when i run it empty, I need to hook up a battery with cables to activate the electric fuel pump... It will not start the sled by pulling... So if you are out in the woods and go out of gas you are doomed, especially if you are alone ! And i'm doing better !
I have to say EFI anything is better than carb (sled, boat, atv, truck).
Thanks for sharing your opinion Littlerock
Hi Dave
New subscriber from NH USA.
Great videos. I just got my first efi sled,a 2000 zl 500. Only been a few miles with it but I can already feel the difference.in throttle response and smoothness of how it runs. I have owned carb sleds for forty + years,I can fix them in the dark trail side if needed. Huge advantage. My only fear is if there's a problem with efi.
Thanks for the info,great channel
Bob
Hi Bob. Congrats on the new sled! I know how you feel, but do you worry about your car? Kinda the same.
My Old Sled
WOW,fast response!
Don't get me wrong,I am excited about the efi. Always like to learn.
Just unknown territory for me. Just waiting for snow. Trail goes through my yard but we only have 4" of snow.
Awesome video and very well explained. We have both carbureted and Sdi but hands down the Sdi wins the battle for me. Easier to start and I find it runs a lot cleaner and more reliable. I noticed your from Ontario as well, I live north of Barrie so that is pretty neat Keep up the awesome content.
Hey Josh! Thanks my friend, I’m glad you liked it. Yes, few hours away but I love Barrie. Loads of restaurants! We are getting dumped on hard here right now.
Yeah the powder has been insane recently for ontario, gotta love it. The snow squalls have been dumping snow all day off Georgian bay.
I would rather have a skidoo etec any day over a carb machine.
I wish I could afford an etec...Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@MyOldSled you can.. you can buy like new ones used on Craigslist
Etec was introduced in 08..a 2008 or newer in good shape is normally more than I have to spend at the moment.
@@MyOldSled I believe 2009 was the first 600 etec but your right they aren't cheap.. I just bought a 2015 mxz x package 800 etec for 9000 on Craigslist with 782 miles . Showroom condition... Maybe someday you will have one... They are definitely nice machines. Skidoo all the way.
Jan 2008 they introduced the ‘09 tnt with e-tec..same difference, I didn’t want to spend that much.
Great video as always!
Thanks Damon.
what is the advantage of carburetors?
Not sure, but I think I may have mentioned a thing or two in the video.
Efi is a sealed system so water will not get in when it sits. Carbs are vented so water will get in. Efi is more likely to start up after sitting, but one of the many complicated components could fail suddenly during a ride. Almost all carb problems will show up when you try to start it, and a sudden failure while riding is far less likely than with efi. That said, efi has been around for a long enough time that the components are very reliable. While a repair to the efi system is more complex and costly, it's also far less likely to be required. You might want to inspect or test the injectors and pumps if you have the engine apart for a rebuild, but how often is that required on a non race sled? My vote goes to efi for maintenance because it's almost never required, also efficiency, consistency, power. Same reasons that all street and 4s dirt bikes are efi too. People want to press a button and go and get ideal efficiency and power in all conditions with no hastle and no fuel system maintenance. It's a no brainer as long as it's a well designed reliable system. I'd take a carb over a bad efi system, but those can be researched and avoided.
Thanks A, thoughtful response.
Nice job! So happy the season is finally here
Hey Jeff! Thanks. Happy new year.
the only reason they say carbs arent as reliable is because people dont winterize their machines and expect them to start right up after sitting for a year.
Awesome video Dave! Keep them coming!
Thanks Domster....I'm trying :) Just swapped my track so will do a video on that too.
Great video, lots of good info. I prefer EFI over carbs for the mileage and reliability.
Thanks Longpockets. Glad you enjoyed the video
Now all we need is snow!
Hey Dave, I got enough to ride the sled over to my friends place to do the track.
@@MyOldSled I'm jealous, over here in Wasaga Beach it's too warm for anything to stick around.
Hey Dave! Love the videos, I just had a suggestion for one. Maybe you could do a video on 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, it could be a nice little sequel to this video in a way. Just an idea.
Hi legend. Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. Good idea.
Agreed 2 stroke vs 4 stroke would be nice
Have both a carb and efi sled efi is far better. i would not trust my carb sled if going somewhere with no cell reception or no where close to town, unless someone else is going with me who is riding an efi sled.
One of the reasons I upgraded to the rev was so I was more confident in the sled on longer rides.
My Old Sled i hope the new sled does you well
My professional small motor mechanic opinion. I’ve been a small motor mechanic for over 18 years. If you’re driving a carbureted machine you better clean those carbs every fall. If you don’t you’re Reading risk of a lien out. Your machine may idol just fine. But once you give her throttle she may start to lean out. I’ve had so many customers tell me oh it ran fine when I started it. And 5 miles down the trail they blew a piston. My professional small motor mechanic opinion. I’ve been a small motor mechanic for over 18 years. If you’re driving a carbureted machine you better clean those carbs every fall. If you don’t you’re Reading risk of a lien out. Your machine may idol just fine. But once you give her throttle she may start to lean out. I’ve had so many customers tell me oh it ran fine when I started it. And 5 miles down the trail they blew a piston.
Hi Peter. I asked two different skidoo service technicians that question, both advised that annual carb cleaning is excessive. Same place I got the advice to drain the carb bowls. I don’t disagree with you that cleaning them more often will reduce the likelihood of issues, but I am comfortable leaving it longer. If i rode thousands on thousands of km, maybe. Thanks for the comment.
I run 87 in my 1999 Yamaha, and my dad always ran 87 or 89 in his 2002 MXZ. We haven't really had any issues with the carbs over the years. Keep the sleds running once or twice in the summer, zero issues. Both machines have been quite reliable, people always think they need to clean the carbs every year and they really don't.
Great video! Well done.
Thanks man.
Jag föredrar pålitlighet.
Å andra sidan så är det ytterst få om ens någon som kör förgasar bil idag!? 🤭 🤔.
Exactly. It is not new technology. Cars are all fuel injected
Thanks David, love your channel and what you have to say to us about the sport of snowmobiling and tips on how to keep stuff maintained on our machines. I bought my first Ski-Doo last year , it is a 900 Ace Renegade Enduro Rev/XS I'm loving the design and ride comfort. I have a question for you that has nothing to do with carburetors. My operators guide says - Electric start models only: never charge or boost battery while installed on snowmobile. Can you explain the reason for the warning? Thank you and keep up the great stuff here on This Old Sled. Cheers, John Leon
Hi John, sorry for the delay. To be honest I'm not 100% sure. I imagine it's to protect components in the electrical system against spikes as the manufacturer would have no idea what kind of charger you are using. When in doubt I always follow the directions in the manual. Sorry for the delay.
with fuel injection will it run the same, at lets say 300 elevation or 3000 feet elevation ?
Yes. sorry for the sorry for the super late reply. I don’t know how i missed that!
@@MyOldSled lol
EfI has better advantage as far as not having to adjusting any jets, for temp and elevation, to where Carbs, you have to change the main jet, which is not all that hard to do, maintenance, Carbs are easier because EFI, you may have to buy new relays once in a while and can cost like hell, using fresh gas with a good stabilizer or SeaFoam, you are all set to go, I own both and this is a tongue twister to answer, both have ups and downs against each other. But as far as not having to choke or priming, EFI is the way to go
Quality vid!!!
Thank you James.
Great content! Love the channel!
Hi Dustin. Thanks so much. Glad you are enjoying it.
Good morning Dave,,Another excellent informative video. Speaking as a small engine mechanic / machinist and of course a avid snowmobiler. I think overall EFI for the win hands down.Especially with emissions theres no way in hell i can tune a set if carbs to be as clean for the environment as EFI. And thats what industry is majorly concerned with ,im just surprised that Doo even has a carbed sport MXZ model left. That being said.You'll always see carbs on drag racing machines mainly because they can be tuned for excessive and i mean excesive fuel flow,i seen fuel lines up to 7/8 diameter here in north bay at the radar runs.Without getting too technical,,,Try and run EFI with that much fuel and your going to need double to three times the pressure to regulate on a EFI fuel rails.Yeah for the average sledder just add some injector cleaner once a season,,i use lucas myself in my 2012 mxz 800,but yah add to the gas once a season ,and i add stablizer.and she good to go.
Thanks for commenting joe. Glad you liked it.
Anyone trying to say carbs are better at anything is most likely just not understanding how their efi systen works. They are Leary of what they don't understand. Might as well go back to spinning hard drives and wooden wheels.
When something new comes along it takes some people a little longer to get comfortable with it. I don't think that means they are wrong...being comfortable with a technology is a good reason to prefer it...for a while ;)
@@MyOldSled Absolutely agree. We all have things that we are that way about. Heck, my 3 year old will soon be having to keep me updated on new tech. I also suspect it has a little to do with how some new things truly are made worse, like clothing and a lot of appliances now are made so poorly they don't last, but the bad things make us hesitant of the new stuff that really is much better.
As an auto mechanic, we almost never have repairs to do on the EFI system, and maintenance on the fuel system now is almost nothing compared to carb days where an annual tuneup and new plugs were just how it was. I've got two new sleds and an old RMK with a carb, I always know which one is going to be a bigger pain to start lol
Thanks for your thoughts Alex.
When he said 20 centimeters I really had to think for a minute lol
Sorry!!! Almost 8 inches in American ;)
Good information!
Efi all day long unless you race. Nuff said
Glad to see your “new” sled. I have the 2006 model of the same skidoo. Looking forward to see what you do for videos with it.
Try a carb in some powder and have them freeze up what a pain in the butt
Hi Jason. Hopefully I'll get the chance to try :) So far, not much snow.
Jason shellop never has happened to me
if you no how to tune your engine carbs rule
Hey Dark. Could you be more specific? Curious how you tuned your engine. Thanks for watching.
My Old Sled I think he means like for racing cause you can make very precise adjustments
And honestly carbs or sdi/efi have no different I’m starting because look the mxz vs the rev both started on second pull
As I explained in the video, with the older sled (they’re both mxz) I need to keep using the primer to keep it running. The fuel injected sled has no choke, and no primer, it just runs. On a colder day, it’s even more work. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Great simple explanation and comparison. IMO, EFI is great for the guy who keeps things stock and wants reliability. Carb is better for the guys who like to modify their sled and need to adjust the fuel/air mixture to compensate for mods. The big complaint I hear from the trail rider about carb sleds, is adjusting for temp. Holtzman Engineering makes a product called "Tempa Flow" that automatically compensates the fuel air mixture on carb sleds based on temp. www.holtzmaneng.com/carburetion-products
I have the same 2005 ski doo but my is a 550
Hi Jacob. Nice, that is a fan cooled and carbureted sled right?
Carbs
:) short and sweet. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Full Out no carbs are trash in my opinion. Get fuel injection it’s more responsive and much better at higher elevations
Hi Noah. I agree that fuel injection is better, thats why pretty much everything has gone that way. That said, I'm not sure it's fair to say carbs are trash - they're just older technology. Like I said in the video, there are reasonable opinions in favour of the carb for some riders. When I make videos, I try to remember owners who have a huge range of sleds. Since this channel probably has a fair number of subscribers with older carbureted sleds, I'm sure a lot of guys like them. If you're having fun, you've got a good sled. Not everyone can just go buy a new sled either. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Nice Mule you got there Dave. lol. EFI all the way!
Hey PB! Yeah, they run so much better.
And please video yer track change ! Want some mechanic advice?? heres some for free,,TIP THE MACHINE ON ITS SIDE=MUCH MUCH EASIER.I can change a 121 track in 2hours no problem,by myself.
Yep, I’ll be doing a video. I lifted the sled, and yeah, we said a few times we could have flipped it on it’s side. We didn’t. Next time I would.
Great video, earned a new subscriber! How about the topic between air cooled, fan cooled and liquid cooled, which is better for a future video?
Thanks Drogon. Glad you enjoyed it. Good suggestion. Welcome to the channel.
I would say it all depends on what she doing with the snowmobile. If you’re racing it carbureted is the way to go. You can squeeze every last little tiny bit of power and of the machine. But if your trail riding it or riding in the mountains EFI hands down. I own both. My race sled is carbureted and my every day driver is a EFI.
I couldn't have said it any better. I was going to post the same thing. Think snow!
What is your race sled?
Right now I have a 1000 Thundercat.
My last one was Arctic Cat M7. 98 miles an hour in 660 feet. And that’s an efi
My personal every day driver is a crossfire8. Yes I’m at Arctic Cat guy LOL I do love your old 670 though. Are used to have one and loved it.
As far is draining your carbs. I don’t think that’s a good idea because your seals and everything else that needs lubricated in your carb gets dry. And when that happens you get leaks and all other kinds of things going wrong. And you’re talking rebuilding your carburetters then. Which isn’t crazy expensive but can be avoided. I suggest running stabilizer in your last tank of fuel. You’re best off to keep your fuel tank full during the summer. That way you don’t get no moisture in your tank.
I normally run my sled every 2 to 3 weeks. Not necessary if you’re Reading stabilizer but I like to hear my toys Lol
Hi Larry, I agree with storing with a full tank of fuel to prevent moisture accumulating in the tank. I also recommend running fuel stabilizer in the tank. Good suggestions. My preference is draining the bowl, again on the advice of a skidoo mechanic, but I know a lot of guys feel the same way as you, on keeping parts wet. I can see the wisdom in both, but with today's fuels, I feel better draining them. That said, I do run the sled periodically through the summer anyway during the off season, so they aren't empty for the whole summer. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, really appreciate it.
I love classic sleds but I really think EFI is the best .
I agree. Everyone should have one of each
Dave, I have a 01 Arctic Cat with EFI, I live in Colorado so the EFI is a god send, no more rejetting . Love it!
Oh absolutely if you're riding in the mountains it's great. I guess you had to change jets in the mountains on the older sleds.
You should post some pics on my Facebook page. Would love to see where to ride.