Hello. I am curious about the inability of moths to feel pain. I raise B.Mori at home. One time, I had to open a cocoon and I cut too deep, severing half of the moth's head by accident. She was twitching and flailing. Another time, one male sunk his claspers into the side of the abdomen of another male who reacted with panic. My question is why they reacted like this if they do not experience pain? I'm not looking to contradict, but to better understand.
I appreciate the question. When you sever a nerve on someone, the brain no longer interprets “pain“. The sensation of “pain“ is a very complex and advanced neurological situation. Insects do not have that neurological hook up so therefore do not experience what we understand as “pain“. When they react when they are touched it is a response to pressure which stimulates them to try to escape in a panicked way. It might look like they are experiencing pain but they don’t feel quite what we feel as humans or other mammals with large brains and advanced neurological systems.
@@keysmoths5336 That sounds convincing, but then i think about the tropical fish experiment, with neons i think. Scientist had a fish tank, set up half of it with lots of cozy plants that fish would love. The other half they left it bare, except for a pump that is filled and rigged to dispense pain meds. Then they put a bunch of fish in, but half of them were injected with an irritating, pain inducing acid. That half found out that if they touched the plate on the rigged machine, that it would dispense pain medicine. So they hung out with the machine all day. The other half of fish were healthy and pain free and were happy hanging out on the cozy, planted side of tank. So maybe the neons(?) don't lack that nerve that you speak of? But, what if they did lack the nerve, like in the moth? That would blow that reasoning right out the window. But i don't have that info of the nerves of moths and fish. I just found the tank experiment interesting. Oh, but by all means, continue doing what you do. Im just kind of messing with you. I mean, the tank thing is true, but I'm sure the fish are different from moths. Carry on.
I love the explanation you give, as well as the video you made about how to properly charge a jar. I’m an amateur collector, only taking insects from my area and doing my best to avoid collecting more than two or three of the same species, and I have recently been looking for a better way to dispatch insects, specifically butterflies and moths. I use alkyl nitrite as my killing chemical (just what I have on hand 😅) but it’s expensive and most of the time it’s not efficient or as quick as I’d like, which leads to damaged wings and major scale loss. I’m gonna try to find some ethyl acetate and try to fix this issue. Wish me luck! Also, when you inject the isopropyl into a specimen, how do you avoid damaging the specimen? They’re such delicate little things and even just barely grazing them causes their scales to rub off, so I’m curious as to how you’ve managed to avoid that damage using such a hands on technique.
Hey, thanks for your comment and good luck with the it will do much better for you. Handling the large mods can be tricky, but with a careful hand, you can pick one up and hold it by the thorax so that the wings don’t beat up and then administer, the syringe. You can get used to.
I'm very new to this but would like to start mounting butterflies and moths. My question is after euthanizing, whichever way you go about it, do you just put them in the envelopes? What about the bigger bodied moths? I just have this image of them rotting/maggots. Does the envelope dry them or or is there another step that needs to be taken before pinning and mounting?
That’s a great question! At the end of the day, the faster you get them on a spreading board the better. If you need to keep them in envelopes, I put them in the freezer. The refrigerator will work for a few days, but not much longer than that. It would be good to invest in a small container of chlorocresol, if you can find it. It’s a chemical that stops mold from growing on your specimens. If you have no other option, you can dry them out in glass in envelopes and leave them in an air-conditioned environment. Air-conditioning will dry them out rather quickly. You can then rehydrate them, when you’re ready to mount. I’ve got videos describing all of the stuff in detail.
would this also work for moth caterpillars? I came across some moth eggs I decided to foster but they might be invasive species so if that's the case I wanted to know how to properly dispatch them I think freezing them might.. be the best option? idk how small the caterpillars will end up being or what they are
This is something I could not do XD. I do not know how stupid I am for this but I just. Come to attached to them. I usually let the, live out their life in my cage and then try to frame them. I would like to start pinning soon. I don’t know. Maybe this is really stupid.
Thank you! I recently became a mother of horn worms (they were eating my tomato plants) and i set up an enclosure for them instead of killing them. 9 pupated, 5 have emerged so far but number 5 (female) emerged with a deformed face and an extra long, curly tongue. I know she'll never be able to eat or survive in the wild, so i came across this video looking for the best way to euthenize her. This had some great info! Any tips on how to pin after freezing?
Oh I’m glad to help!!! I have some videos on pinning sphinx moths and other general “how-to” videos for pinning specimens. I’d check them out. If you have any specific questions I’d be happy to help
I found a butterfly in my garden struggling in the heat with an upper wing missing, completely unable to fly, it had been presumably bitten off by a bird. I brought it in and gave it some banana, which it loved, and it would not leave my hand. I tried to make it a prosthetic, which unfortunately didn’t work and now I’m putting it to sleep in the fridge as painlessly as I can. Rest in peace Rico, may you fly to the skies in butterfly heaven.
For big moth like that I’d use a syringe. Just one drop of rubbing alcohol in the thorax will do. If you use a jar, make sure it is fully charged before putting a moth in it
When done with proper labeling, with special consideration for any species of conservation concern, in moderation, butterfly and insect collections in general are a wealth of knowledge for conservation efforts and population trends, as well as many branches of study such as taxonomy, anatomy, and genetics.
Thank you so much for this video. I'd recently found a monarch butterfly land on my pool and tried saving it. However, it could no longer stand on its legs. And it would try to fly, but then it couldn't and it would just follow it. It's back. So I was trying to find ways to kill it without it like being it too hurtful. I guess so, thank you a lot for this video.
I appreciate the kind words. By far the best way to do it is with the freezer. Cold blooded in sex when it’s bright experiencing cold temperatures simply start to shut down. There’s no pain involved there’s no struggle. They just start to go to sleep in a sense until frozen. If you’re trying to look for the best way to euthanize an injured butterfly, like that, without a doubt, the freezer is the best way.
@keysmoths5336 That's what I ended up doing! And I have a grandfather who collects butterflies so he's teaching me how to pin it. As I don't want to just throw it away
I caught a tiger moth, euthanized it in a kill jar, and later pinned the specimen to dehydrate. But when I checked on it the next day I saw some eggs came out of this specimen. Is there anything I should do with that... should I simply dispose 'em or place it on a leaf or smt
Hi there. Great question. If you used a kill jar to kill them off, it is highly likely that the eggs will never hatch. But to be safe, you can keep them in a cup and watch them, and if they start hatching, you can take the leaf that they feed on and put it inside of a container. Once they start to grow, you can release them on the plant outside. That would be what I would do.
I usually kill moths by putting them in the refrigerator but lately have been struggling with their stiffness. For example, noctuidae that tend to die with the wings too close to the body are really difficult for me to work with because stiffness...I could try this technique but if I handle them it will ruin it...
Hi 👋, I got a peacock butterfly that died, died with its wings open, I thought it was alive , I want to pin it, how do I do it? I have left it for month where it is, how do I rehydrate and pin it?
Great questions. I have very descriptive videos on how to do just that. Please see my playlist on keeping a scientific butterfly or moth collection. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask.
@@keysmoths5336 I have watched lots of your videos,they are great.i was thinking because my butterfly died with the wings open that it may be different to rehydrate. But I guess is not 😉.thank you for the reply.
can someone help me? ok so, i have an acherontia atropos that died 3 days ago soo it is kinda still fresh and i wanna mount it but i dont want it to rot up, how do i dry it up?
Wow nice bug!!! Check out our videos on how to mount the specimens. You need to dry it out once you mount it. Some people put it in the oven under really low temperature. Once it’s completely dry you can put it in a display case. Hopefully you have air conditioning. Air conditioning will keep the mold away
@@keysmoths5336 thank you so much! :-) i didn’t put it in for quite that long but it’s been a while and i think all is ok! ill definitely put it in for longer next time
A vast majority of people that do this are collectors, hobbiests, oddity shop sellers, etc... Just like every paw trap / game hunter that do it taxidermy and wall mounts claiming that they're concerned about conservation, animal welfare, and so called "preventing overpopulation." I understand he is an entomologist, and cataloguing is part of the discipline... it's just everytime I see stuff like this, it's for some tacky dry floral wallpiece. And synonyms of humane are compassionate, benevolent, kind... To put it along side any term like slaughter, killing, aborting, factory farming, or taking any life prematurely is just an oxymoron.
Someone has to do it. In this fallen world, some things need to be preserved to be fully enjoyed and understood. Look at it this way, if the fall of man never occurred, we would never dissect something to intimately know its anatomy. When the world is made new, the once 'insect murders' will know all about insect anatomy and will be able to apply that knowledge to be better stewards of God's creation on the new Earth. When that happens, butterflies and moths will not have the 'fear of man' in them, so we will then be able to enjoy them in another sense. If you look at it the right way, it really is a blessing brought out of a curse. To be able to use dead creatures to ultimately bring glory to God, that's how I see it.
Hi there most people use isopropyl alcohol with syringes for large moths. I’m sure it can work with butterflies but there are other more efficient methods
Love it thanks for this very informative video I would like to just collect some butterflies once in a while or moth's for art if that is OK and legal and maybe for my sister to have a framed collection of framed butterflies.Also where can I find that Witch moth because whoud ❤️❤️❤️❤️that one.
Very good. Check the laws in your state and find out if there are any protected butterfly species. Stay away from parks or places that might be deemed wildlife sanctuaries or refuges because you’ll wind up in conflict there for sure.
why are you using the word "euthanize"? Euthanasia: Act or practise of mercy of putting to death a person(or animal) suffering from painful and incurable disease or incapacitating physical disorder. What you are doing has nothing to do with euthanization. The creatures are perfectly healthy. Study them when they are alive (in nature). collect and examine the remains after the lived a full live and died of natural causes. THAT is respect for nature (and science for that matter).
Hey man. Sorry if you were offended. Most of the people that search for this video are trying to find a humane way of euthanizing an injured butterfly or moth that has broken wings or that fell in a pool that is still alive but can no longer fly. Therefore the euthanasia term would certainly apply.
Incorrect. If you are actually interested in the answer to your question, check out my website www.keysmoths.com Our work is based on doing taxonomic discoveries in South Florida in the Florida Keys. We also do lifecycle documentation of creatures that no eye has ever seen their caterpillars or early life stages. They are not in any way “trophies“. Specimens are donated to the museum of natural history in Gainesville Florida (the MaGuire Center for Lepidoptera research.
We keep 2 specemins of EVERY species in the British Natural History Museum. If you think you can get all of the information on a species from a photograph you are mistaken 😂
Hello. I am curious about the inability of moths to feel pain. I raise B.Mori at home. One time, I had to open a cocoon and I cut too deep, severing half of the moth's head by accident. She was twitching and flailing. Another time, one male sunk his claspers into the side of the abdomen of another male who reacted with panic. My question is why they reacted like this if they do not experience pain? I'm not looking to contradict, but to better understand.
I appreciate the question. When you sever a nerve on someone, the brain no longer interprets “pain“. The sensation of “pain“ is a very complex and advanced neurological situation. Insects do not have that neurological hook up so therefore do not experience what we understand as “pain“. When they react when they are touched it is a response to pressure which stimulates them to try to escape in a panicked way. It might look like they are experiencing pain but they don’t feel quite what we feel as humans or other mammals with large brains and advanced neurological systems.
@@keysmoths5336 thank you for the nice explanation :)
@@keysmoths5336 Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. It helps me to better understand their behaviours.
@@keysmoths5336 That sounds convincing, but then i think about the tropical fish experiment, with neons i think. Scientist had a fish tank, set up half of it with lots of cozy plants that fish would love. The other half they left it bare, except for a pump that is filled and rigged to dispense pain meds. Then they put a bunch of fish in, but half of them were injected with an irritating, pain inducing acid. That half found out that if they touched the plate on the rigged machine, that it would dispense pain medicine. So they hung out with the machine all day. The other half of fish were healthy and pain free and were happy hanging out on the cozy, planted side of tank.
So maybe the neons(?) don't lack that nerve that you speak of? But, what if they did lack the nerve, like in the moth? That would blow that reasoning right out the window. But i don't have that info of the nerves of moths and fish. I just found the tank experiment interesting. Oh, but by all means, continue doing what you do. Im just kind of messing with you. I mean, the tank thing is true, but I'm sure the fish are different from moths. Carry on.
i probably won’t be able to do this. i’d rather hold onto them and take care of them in my butterfly net until they pass naturally.
I love the explanation you give, as well as the video you made about how to properly charge a jar. I’m an amateur collector, only taking insects from my area and doing my best to avoid collecting more than two or three of the same species, and I have recently been looking for a better way to dispatch insects, specifically butterflies and moths. I use alkyl nitrite as my killing chemical (just what I have on hand 😅) but it’s expensive and most of the time it’s not efficient or as quick as I’d like, which leads to damaged wings and major scale loss. I’m gonna try to find some ethyl acetate and try to fix this issue. Wish me luck!
Also, when you inject the isopropyl into a specimen, how do you avoid damaging the specimen? They’re such delicate little things and even just barely grazing them causes their scales to rub off, so I’m curious as to how you’ve managed to avoid that damage using such a hands on technique.
Hey, thanks for your comment and good luck with the it will do much better for you. Handling the large mods can be tricky, but with a careful hand, you can pick one up and hold it by the thorax so that the wings don’t beat up and then administer, the syringe. You can get used to.
I'm very new to this but would like to start mounting butterflies and moths. My question is after euthanizing, whichever way you go about it, do you just put them in the envelopes? What about the bigger bodied moths? I just have this image of them rotting/maggots. Does the envelope dry them or or is there another step that needs to be taken before pinning and mounting?
That’s a great question! At the end of the day, the faster you get them on a spreading board the better. If you need to keep them in envelopes, I put them in the freezer. The refrigerator will work for a few days, but not much longer than that. It would be good to invest in a small container of chlorocresol, if you can find it. It’s a chemical that stops mold from growing on your specimens. If you have no other option, you can dry them out in glass in envelopes and leave them in an air-conditioned environment. Air-conditioning will dry them out rather quickly. You can then rehydrate them, when you’re ready to mount. I’ve got videos describing all of the stuff in detail.
How do you prevent them from getting squashed in the envelope?
As long as you don’t try to squeeze too much into one container you shouldn’t have a problem
would this also work for moth caterpillars? I came across some moth eggs I decided to foster but they might be invasive species so if that's the case I wanted to know how to properly dispatch them
I think freezing them might.. be the best option? idk how small the caterpillars will end up being or what they are
Freezing is always a great option for insects. They just cool down and go to sleep. It’s the most humane way in my opinion
This is something I could not do XD. I do not know how stupid I am for this but I just. Come to attached to them. I usually let the, live out their life in my cage and then try to frame them. I would like to start pinning soon. I don’t know. Maybe this is really stupid.
You should try mounting them
No it isn’t! good for you!
You could still pin and mount them if you wanted to anyways right? But just let them die naturally
This is exactly what I used to do, just frame them. But now I have gotten in the scientific field and started pinning them.
I do hobby chemistry as well, I could probably make some ethyl acetate. It requires some distillation to synthesize it
Today I had to euthanize a wild moth because it was suffering from an injury. It was really depressing.
Yes I know. I’m sorry
can u guys rubbing alcohol for a kill jar?
You think it would work with ethanol instead of isopropyl alcohol?
I’ve never tried. What I’ve heard is that ethyl acetate has the fastest knock-down power. So I’ve always used it
Thank you! I recently became a mother of horn worms (they were eating my tomato plants) and i set up an enclosure for them instead of killing them. 9 pupated, 5 have emerged so far but number 5 (female) emerged with a deformed face and an extra long, curly tongue. I know she'll never be able to eat or survive in the wild, so i came across this video looking for the best way to euthenize her. This had some great info! Any tips on how to pin after freezing?
Oh I’m glad to help!!! I have some videos on pinning sphinx moths and other general “how-to” videos for pinning specimens. I’d check them out. If you have any specific questions I’d be happy to help
I found a butterfly in my garden struggling in the heat with an upper wing missing, completely unable to fly, it had been presumably bitten off by a bird. I brought it in and gave it some banana, which it loved, and it would not leave my hand. I tried to make it a prosthetic, which unfortunately didn’t work and now I’m putting it to sleep in the fridge as painlessly as I can. Rest in peace Rico, may you fly to the skies in butterfly heaven.
Sorry to hear that. At least you tried to help it
How much drops do you need fore big Moth like Atlas Moth or Madagaskan Bullseye?
For big moth like that I’d use a syringe. Just one drop of rubbing alcohol in the thorax will do. If you use a jar, make sure it is fully charged before putting a moth in it
Great Video mate keep it up
Wow! Thank you! I appreciate you watching the video
When done with proper labeling, with special consideration for any species of conservation concern, in moderation, butterfly and insect collections in general are a wealth of knowledge for conservation efforts and population trends, as well as many branches of study such as taxonomy, anatomy, and genetics.
Well stated! Thanks
Thank you so much for this video. I'd recently found a monarch butterfly land on my pool and tried saving it. However, it could no longer stand on its legs. And it would try to fly, but then it couldn't and it would just follow it. It's back. So I was trying to find ways to kill it without it like being it too hurtful. I guess so, thank you a lot for this video.
I appreciate the kind words. By far the best way to do it is with the freezer. Cold blooded in sex when it’s bright experiencing cold temperatures simply start to shut down. There’s no pain involved there’s no struggle. They just start to go to sleep in a sense until frozen. If you’re trying to look for the best way to euthanize an injured butterfly, like that, without a doubt, the freezer is the best way.
@keysmoths5336 That's what I ended up doing! And I have a grandfather who collects butterflies so he's teaching me how to pin it. As I don't want to just throw it away
Hello sir..may i know some other methods to kill butterfly at the field and store them?? your videos are awesome..keep it going as usual..
the pinch is the most common method for sure. Thanks for watching
Thank you 🙏
De nada hombre
I caught a tiger moth, euthanized it in a kill jar, and later pinned the specimen to dehydrate. But when I checked on it the next day I saw some eggs came out of this specimen. Is there anything I should do with that... should I simply dispose 'em or place it on a leaf or smt
Hi there. Great question. If you used a kill jar to kill them off, it is highly likely that the eggs will never hatch. But to be safe, you can keep them in a cup and watch them, and if they start hatching, you can take the leaf that they feed on and put it inside of a container. Once they start to grow, you can release them on the plant outside. That would be what I would do.
@@keysmoths5336 Wow that's great.. I thought to do the same. TYSM for answering my doubt ❤️
I usually kill moths by putting them in the refrigerator but lately have been struggling with their stiffness. For example, noctuidae that tend to die with the wings too close to the body are really difficult for me to work with because stiffness...I could try this technique but if I handle them it will ruin it...
Those Noctuidae are difficult!!!!!!!
Great video!
Thanks
My mom knows a lady that just places them into a jar with the lid closed tight. Eventually they just "go to sleep" as she puts it.
thank u sir..❤
No problem!
Hi 👋, I got a peacock butterfly that died, died with its wings open, I thought it was alive , I want to pin it, how do I do it? I have left it for month where it is, how do I rehydrate and pin it?
Great questions. I have very descriptive videos on how to do just that. Please see my playlist on keeping a scientific butterfly or moth collection. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask.
@@keysmoths5336 I have watched lots of your videos,they are great.i was thinking because my butterfly died with the wings open that it may be different to rehydrate. But I guess is not 😉.thank you for the reply.
Good video.
Thanks
Hi we just recently found 4 Acheson sphinx caterpillars in Brandon, Manitoba Canada
Nice. Are you reading them?
@@keysmoths5336 we are wanting them too molt
can someone help me?
ok so, i have an acherontia atropos that died 3 days ago soo it is kinda still fresh and i wanna mount it but i dont want it to rot up, how do i dry it up?
Wow nice bug!!! Check out our videos on how to mount the specimens. You need to dry it out once you mount it. Some people put it in the oven under really low temperature. Once it’s completely dry you can put it in a display case. Hopefully you have air conditioning. Air conditioning will keep the mold away
how long would you freeze to kill a moth about the zie of the one you handled in the video?
I’d leave it in the freezer over night if possible. Sometimes they thaw out and come right back to life!!
@@keysmoths5336 thank you so much! :-) i didn’t put it in for quite that long but it’s been a while and i think all is ok! ill definitely put it in for longer next time
Best entomogical greetings from Ukraine!😮😮😮😅😊😊
Nice!!!!! Welcome to our channel!!!!! What a great passion we have!!!
gotta love the beetles tho
Oh yeah!!!
A vast majority of people that do this are collectors, hobbiests, oddity shop sellers, etc... Just like every paw trap / game hunter that do it taxidermy and wall mounts claiming that they're concerned about conservation, animal welfare, and so called "preventing overpopulation." I understand he is an entomologist, and cataloguing is part of the discipline... it's just everytime I see stuff like this, it's for some tacky dry floral wallpiece.
And synonyms of humane are compassionate, benevolent, kind... To put it along side any term like slaughter, killing, aborting, factory farming, or taking any life prematurely is just an oxymoron.
Sorry bro. You have me miss-pegged….
Someone has to do it. In this fallen world, some things need to be preserved to be fully enjoyed and understood. Look at it this way, if the fall of man never occurred, we would never dissect something to intimately know its anatomy.
When the world is made new, the once 'insect murders' will know all about insect anatomy and will be able to apply that knowledge to be better stewards of God's creation on the new Earth.
When that happens, butterflies and moths will not have the 'fear of man' in them, so we will then be able to enjoy them in another sense.
If you look at it the right way, it really is a blessing brought out of a curse. To be able to use dead creatures to ultimately bring glory to God, that's how I see it.
I have stacks of dead butterflies from collecting and the ones I hatch and raise.
Start mounting them!!!
BUT for bigger moths like sphinx moth i just throw them bastards in the freezer
True! Freezer works wonders
Hello.Can i inject dettol or sodium hydroxide into the butterfly to euthanize it.
Hi there most people use isopropyl alcohol with syringes for large moths. I’m sure it can work with butterflies but there are other more efficient methods
Envelopes for letters to the families
?
Love it thanks for this very informative video I would like to just collect some butterflies once in a while or moth's for art if that is OK and legal and maybe for my sister to have a framed collection of framed butterflies.Also where can I find that Witch moth because whoud ❤️❤️❤️❤️that one.
Very good. Check the laws in your state and find out if there are any protected butterfly species. Stay away from parks or places that might be deemed wildlife sanctuaries or refuges because you’ll wind up in conflict there for sure.
Using a dead specimen to demonstrate euthanasia is questionable at best.
I never claimed I’d demonstrate it - simply explain it
This is my hobby
The best!!!
GIVE ME THE LAMP
Haha!!!
L A M P
why are you using the word "euthanize"?
Euthanasia:
Act or practise of mercy of putting to death a person(or animal) suffering from painful and incurable disease or incapacitating physical disorder.
What you are doing has nothing to do with euthanization. The creatures are perfectly healthy.
Study them when they are alive (in nature). collect and examine the remains after the lived a full live and died of natural causes. THAT is respect for nature (and science for that matter).
Hey man. Sorry if you were offended. Most of the people that search for this video are trying to find a humane way of euthanizing an injured butterfly or moth that has broken wings or that fell in a pool that is still alive but can no longer fly. Therefore the euthanasia term would certainly apply.
I am wondering, if you could euthanize the specimen by depriving them of oxygen, like putting them in a airtight container.
I don’t think so. They use so little oxygen that that they would die of other causes before oxygen would run out
Just a thought, thanks.
Research, looks like trophies. What exactly are you researching? You've "researched" more than enough.
Incorrect. If you are actually interested in the answer to your question, check out my website
www.keysmoths.com
Our work is based on doing taxonomic discoveries in South Florida in the Florida Keys. We also do lifecycle documentation of creatures that no eye has ever seen their caterpillars or early life stages. They are not in any way “trophies“. Specimens are donated to the museum of natural history in Gainesville Florida (the MaGuire Center for Lepidoptera research.
They don’t even live very long to begin with. If an insect is at the end of its life, there’s no reason not to do what’s demonstrated here.
@@HeroinChristsometimes, preservation is needed to enjoy creatures in this fallen world...
Please don't do that
???????
??????
I had to kill my pet butterfly because it was gonna die either way
Yep. They have a short life.
Scientists disagree with you.....insects do feel pain. You could photograph them and let them go. You don't have to kill them. Grow up.
We keep 2 specemins of EVERY species in the British Natural History Museum. If you think you can get all of the information on a species from a photograph you are mistaken 😂