Will this small JK-BMS work with a large 280Ah/14kWh battery bank? Heltec out - JK in!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ม.ค. 2024
- Finally, we say goodbye to the Heltec BMS. It was installed in the battery shelf for 2 years and has... kind of worked. It definitely protects your batteries from over-voltage, current and temperature but lacks some features and functions which are standard these days with other BMSes. So, it is time to replace it with something new and fresh: a JK-BMS. Wait, what???
Yeah, but it's not just any JK-BMS or the usual 200A BMS people go for. This is the smallest 16s JK-BMS on the market and it comes with a tiny 0.6A active balancer. I always wanted to know if that would be sufficient to balance out a large battery bank. Let the testing begin...
JK-BMS 4s-24s up to 200A. Great BMS, great app, great balancer. All prices and models here:
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Great to see the shelves again and some raw testing, back to your roots. The first jk I used was 0.6 balancer on a home made 51.2 bank made up of 4 12v valance batteries. Still working a treat
It's funny, after all this time, I might go back to JBD. ^_^ - Thanks for the mention, my friend!
Any time!
Port 3 port 3 port 3! Did I win? Please Andy I’ve got a pack begging for a new BMS. Love all your videos mate, I’ve learnt so such!
Genius, the opening trick was wonderful
Hahaha Andy thank you that was a funny introduction, I can guarantee there is absolutely no danger of me being half naked in Scotland 🥶🥶🥶.
My Daly 1a balancer did a fantastic job on my sick Liitokala battery and making DALY great again, 0.6A with good cells might be alright, it will be interesting viewing.
Just a question I was always told never coil live cables as they get hot hot hot, is that coil of balance leads ok?
My cables still make my brain itch but it is getting better slowly.
Cheers mate
Luv ya
Gaz
Thanks Gaz. Hope you had some more people sub to your channel and enjoy the beautiful Scottish landscape you're showing not often enough.
Coiling up cables is fine if the current is not too high. I would not do that when I push constant 10a though these cables as they heat up due to the lack of proper cooling. For these balance cables it is absolutely no problem in doing so. And it looks nice!
Stay charged up there!
@@OffGridGarageAustraliaYou added About a hundered subs over night mate and thats awesome!!!
Better to show more of our beautiful rolling hills before its ruined. We have 1000s of wind turbines in the local area and more being built, the destruction caused by the acces roads alone is upsetting, nearing full saturation. The farm and hills to our left is being planted with a forest for comertial timer. I will have to do a video from up the road it is shocking.
Shine On You Crazy Diamond!
Gaz
As always, Thanks Andy, always good to see more. 👍👍
I have been searching high and low for the correct connector for my jk-bms rs485 connection and thank you Andy for showing me the micro jst connector in your video !
Yes, it is the GPS connector. Great design, right?😆
hmm port 3 great video nearly watched all your videos got given 20x 250w solar panels and now im intersted in build my own off grid system so im still learning you videos have been a great help
Good to see, great work as always Andy, indeed interesting to see if 600mA will perform the tricks. Good to see JK is enhancing the old BMSes as well with extra parameters, sadly not the negative temps
Nice trick for getting braided wire into a lug. I will use this!
It works really well! Thanks to Gary!
It worked fine on my 24v battery.
But then I connected an electric oven make bread in my off-grid cabin. Had to replace it ofcourse...
But it did a fine job for 2 years.
I suspect the next wire will be #3. Thanks for all your efforts and sharing with the world.
I think you can turn the #3 into whatever you want, after all, in the western world you can choose your gender once a year, which I think is totally stupid because God already knows what he wanted when he brought me into the world as a man, but that's exactly why I say #99 and next year I'll say #3 or something or not, or maybe I can't decide, ask Andy 3 or something🤣🤣🤣
#3 is my answer , you are amusing ,love your channel !
Hi Andy.
I usually remove a few of the unused balance leads from the connector for spares but I don’t remove all the extras because they help with holding the connector into the bms. WARNING! The unused leads do have power on them and ends need to be insulated. In fact the voltage ascends as if there’s more cells than actually there.
I only cut off the bare wires from these unused balance wires...
The answer is 3! Keep up the great work Andy, glad to see Miss Piggy is still going strong 💪
Beautifully made video Andy. regards from Holy Island Max++
Awesome! Thank you! You are a true supporter with your ongoing donations. Thanks a lot!
❤Thanks Andy you can use dire up
Another jod well done Andy. Cheers! You can have the helltec.
Thanks for the feedback and the Heltec!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia LOL.
Cable 3 to Port 3! I hope to receive it for my spare bloated 8pcs 75AH cells. It would help a lot for the high electricity costs here in the Philippines. 😇🙏
Thanks Andy
Any time!
Answer = 3. Keep up the good work
JK BMS looks great
I think that balancer would look great in my system.
The correct answer is: port .#3
Thanks for another interesting video.
3
Andy, you're the best. Great humour awesome advice, stay beautiful mate. Gruß aus Södermanland, Se
Thank you my friend!
#3
Thanks for sharing Andy, I always love your videos, keep them comming... 🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸
Much like all engineers, I too have half naked battery dreams
Just imagining a 48v 280ah bank makes me want to run a mile
3 of course. I have the same style bms, but with a 2amp balancer.
I have the exact same model of jk-bms on my 125AH 48v system. It took about a week of holding the pack at full voltage for it to balance, but after its more than enough
Ah, great, thanks for the feedback! My pack is already pretty balanced so it should be OK.
So...just top balance before install to ease the demands on the balancing? Perhaps?
Yes but probably top balance always anyways@@geraldhenrickson7472
I found that using larger lugs on the BMS kept them from ever getting warm even when the BMS is almost hot.
For those over 50.... reminds me of a quiz show question from a 70's Cheech and Chong episode... He is asked how many J's in a Lid. (remember metal tobacco cans?) He says TW0. If you dont get it it ok....
Secondly...... S E X Y ... the wiring of course... very B E A Utiful.
You could use a piece of this video as a "settings" video for the BMS and Li iron Ph.
cheers thanks again.
Hi Andy, another perfect video from you, thanks a lot. It inspires me to upgrade all my batteries with my already purchased JKs soon... Once I may find some time to manage. Just a short question, your kill switches are on the minus line. I know there is almost a philosophical discussion about killing minus or plus, but why did you choose to put it on minus. Victron recommends killing plus. Thank you so much for your point of view!
you can also use a tie wrap
You sure make learning fun! Getting ready to pull the plug on ordering batteries and maybe a jk. 😊 3 times the fun.. three 🐸🐸🐸
So, what is your answer again😁
#3 & thanks for all your testing and insights
Hello Andy, ITS No. 6, i guess!? Thanx for another informativ and hilarious Video.
Greetings Theo
Sorry, you didn't win, hahaha
Hi Andy, I like number 3 for the answer. But if I don’t get the giveaway BMS, I would be ok with a JK bms as well.
@9:23 andy is in another mood😂
Battery shelf fetish!
Thank you and Gary for the lug insertion tip. With larger fine-stranded wire I typically strip a few MM of insulation off the end, insert the lug and then remove sections of insulation until fully inserted. With very large , fine-stranded cables like 250-1000mcm, you might have to remove 3mm at a time of the 50mm that needs to be removed.
Thanks for the tip. The insulation trick will not work well as the insulation is too soft, especially when using silicon cables. So, a piece of wire works very well.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia A bit of fine gauge Safety aircraft wire might be perfect
I use a zip tie
@@gandalfstormcrow9605 I recall trying to use 'ty-wraps' on fine-stranded conductors and enough of the strands on the non-circular bit where the end of the tie-went into the retainer made it difficult or impossible to get small diameter conductors into a lug. That's why I like the safety wire suggestion.
Also, on larger conductors, just getting the end in the lug is not the end of the problem as strands can bunch up as the lug is inserted, and why I used the ring-strip method, but as Andy mentioned, soft Silicone insulation may not contain the strands anyway.
@@gandalfstormcrow9605Yes, thank you. Someone told me that before but I could not remember what else could be used
You should drill holes to the side wall and mount the power buttons next the breakers.
I think the next wire is the next one... I am perfectly happy with my JBD BMS 😁
cable 3 in port 5 of course
Hello good job. 👍
Thank you 👍
Nice video Andy actually i have 105AH eve cells with Ant bms the passive balancer is only 180ma i selected 140ma and its more than enough for those cells. the 200A jk bms i crimped both wires into a 25mm terminals it was a total fit insert.
I run these 100A versions on my packs for years now, no problems what so ever. I have ordered two more for the 30kWh expansion.
Another 30kWh??? Oh wow that will be impressive!
@@garys-half-baked-offgrid-dream I'll be at 100kWh then. I'll stick with that while I investigate the possibility of a 500kWh to 1MWh pack to last me the entire winter :)
@@upnorthandpersonal Sir I think you need a Small Modular Nuclear Reactor.
It's hard to comprehend the physical size and cost of that amount of batteries. That sure would be a good video series to watch.
@@garys-half-baked-offgrid-dream I'm actually designing something like this for a zero emission data center project. So I'm actually only half kidding. You'd be surprised what you can fit in a container, even a 20 foot one.
@@upnorthandpersonal dude, if you go for 500~1000kwh, and you don't film it, I'll come to Finland to find you and film it myself. Good lord!
JK should provide firmware updates for the old versions. SOC settings are a good thing.
The SOC100%VOL does not work on the older BMS for me. It just does not trigger. JK told me the first cell hitting the voltage will trigger it. Not in this BMS I installed here.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia
That's not good 🐸
Report this in a video and JK will then fix it. The force is with you....
Yeah, I hope it can be updated via the app. 🙏
think it will be #3 ... :) the trick for the lug insertion also works with a cable tie .
Hi Andy, I have found with my own JK BMS that if you change the battery capacity in the settings it returns the cycle count to zero.
Best regards Andy (in Scotland).
Oh no! Please not Andy-2, he'll haut me and drown me in beer then... 😂😂😂
Hahaha, he'll get ya!
I do watch your channel every time a new video comes up. I am getting ready to receive my 280ah cells from China, doing a 24v system for selected loads in my house. I bought a balancer as well, but I am not sure if its a must to install it. Your insight on the same will be appreciated
NOOOO,not Andy 2. My dreams are scary enough😂😂
He will come for you, mate!👹
Port number 3!
Hallo. Eine andere Lösung um die Litzen für die Ringkabelschuhe vorzubereiten sind die klassischen Kabelbinder!
Thank you.
3, 3 Ha ha ha (insert the count's voice from Sesame Street) he likes to count after all. 😉
10 mm from auto electrics I use. Good quality products. Morning cloudy day do here today.
and here i thought i was the only one that mainly used heat shrink to cover my terrible crimps.
THREE! INTO THREE!!
Correct answer is 42. Btw that’s correct in all cases.
Unfortunately... Man... I'm sorry you didn't win!
connector Number 3 :)
Next wire are #3. 😊
#3.... and then #4... See I Helped :)
You are a great assistant! Like Andy2
number 3 goes into the square hole!
You are the winner! Not.😁
Andy, have you or anyone else ever considered or used Aluminum wire high current, DC systems? I'm designing a light EV that needs to be light a possible and given the weight and cost savings of Aluminum, I'm considering giving it a try.
Years ago I worked a lot with Aluminum wire in remote Oil and Gas locations where stuff had to flown in or transported light snow-vehicles and I found that if you used proper 'AU' lugs crimped properly with oxide inhibiting grease Aluminum conductors were reliable.
One thing I noticed and sort of preferred about Aluminum conductors over copper, was that in the event a of a high current short, where copper would continue to heat to red hot, aluminum would quickly melt or vaporize, and in a high current DC system that might be a plus.
The biggest issue with using aluminum wire especially in an EV with high current and voltage demands is that the aluminum wire expands and contracts many times more than copper does, making all of your connection points susceptible to breaking or becoming weak over time. Look into it, but they make some specific components to help with it.
You may be better off with CCA wire as a better backup to keep weight down as well as cost.
@@redbaronrefining5322 Thanks for the insights and copper clad AL suggestion, I was not 'current' on CCA developments but some interesting solutions for sure.
Perhaps Andy has an opinion and might be up for delving into Aluminum conductors and possibly doing experimenting with Aluminum Conductors to find out if they are worth the trouble and risk.
Good point about Thermal expansion of Aluminum conductors, that was a major factor of terminal loosing and heating, I saw not only with Aluminum but with copper too. It happens with copper to but to a much lessor degree. In the oil and gas industry part of our scheduled maintenance on Motor control centers and power generation was inspecting and re-torquing terminals. In industrial locations where they originally used Aluminum conductors directly connected to Aluminum terminals, it was a constant challenge keeping terminals from heating either from loosing or corrosion, and one partial solution was to use special aluminum clad, copper compression lugs with corrosion inhibiting dielectric grease on the aluminum conductors, and insert those lugs into breakers and switch gear terminals, and that proved a reliable solution.
I'm familiar enough with Aluminum wire and compression lugs, to want to experiment with it in DIY EV Applications, as I think it might be suitable to save weight and for heavy gauge runs from battery banks to controller and three Phase motor leads, as long the connections are not subject to movent, stress and heating as I did see cases where heat stressed aluminum conductors became brittle and fractured.
Aluminum has 61 percent of the conductivity of copper, but has only 30 percent of the weight of copper. So by oversizing the aluminium wires to match the copper, you're losing some of the weight benefits.
Is silicon wire not a better (possible) solution as it is thinner than normal copper wire?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy. My take was that as Aluminum is about 1/3 the weight, and 20% the cost of copper, about 30% more voltage drop per circular mil. /weight it was worth an experiment.
Silicone insulated, fine stranded wire might be advertised as higher ampacity than PVC coated wire of the same Circular mil. / or gauge, but at a higher temp, at 90C or 120C, rather than 60C. so that higher current comes with a higher voltage drop, more resistive loses and possibly more impedance losses as my load would be a high-current, three-phase permanent magnet BLDC motor. I
seem to recall that Aluminum has higher impedance losses with higher frequency with AC. But for DC in DIY solar, I was thinking that Aluminum might offer significant cost savings for long runs from solar arrays or long feeds from Charge controllers, battery banks, etc.
Hopefully I'm the winner 🏆 number 3
Cable number 3 to port 3
it's not good Andy these kind of nozzles, only for children to play with. I use what seems to be 25mm² and plug both wires into one end. There is real power there. Unnecessary and unused wires are simply pulled out nicely by pressing the latch.
I have done that with the other BMS but this one uses 7AWG wires and they are always too small or too large, no matter what size ring lug I'm using.
Hello Andy, 3.
Do you say hello to Andy3, or was this you answer?😁
Hi Andy, why is it not possibel to flash your old JK-BMS with the new Firmware . To have this 100 % and 0% SoC Voltage setting.
Only the newer JK-0BMS have this feature. The black and silver rectangle shaped BMS cannot be upgraded to a new FW. Only the new inverter BMS can
Hi Andy, is it possible to update the Firmware of old JK BMS to get the new Settingoptions?
Nope, not possible.
Thanks for the nice video👍
What I've always wanted to ask you: How are the terminal blocks for the BMS cables that go to the LiFePo4 cells called? (between the BMS and the LiFePo4 block)🤔
I need to extend the BMS cables on my next 16s block a little bit.
I've already looked here, but I haven't found anything like this yet🤷🏼♂️
Greetings from Germany😊
Andy did a video on those puppies. Two years ago? Maybe?
Linked in the video description my friend from Germany.
off-grid-garage.com/cables-and-connectors/
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks for the info👍 I immediately ordered two packs of 50 😅
Cable No. 3 into Port No. 3
Hi Andy, i think you should set lower balance voltage to extend balancing time, and your 0.6 A BMS will do job OK. i test 24V battery with JK BD6A17S8P and now in winter (Croatia) with bad improvised position and bad angle of solar panels have small current values. Also i test part of consumer in house with 300 - 500 W consumption. Am i right, what you mean ?? Maybe lowering balance voltage will slow down in some amount chargeing but it depends if you have lot of sun what i saw in video you have because you have batteries almost full at noon sometimes.
cable number 3 on the whole number 3, but im good, i've got three jk bms's , i would love Andy 2 to hunt me here in the Philippines if he could get here.
Hehehe, wait until he knocks on your door one day😂
As an electral engineer: Please always terminate spare wires.
The 200A JK BMS (old style) also has these thin 10mm2 cables. Using it on a sailboat motor and having 100A for 2 hours i am nervous about those cables heating up. Should i half the length to minimize the resistance before they connect to my 70mm2 cables? Or are those 20cm cables short enough?
We have tested these cables here on the channel and they seem to be OK for 200A. I thought the 200A JK has slightly larger cables, than the 100A version?
I am curious if it is better to use the .6 amp balance when we are at the higher cell voltages (closer to 3.6v). To maintain a 2 amps current when you are close to the 3.6v mark, you must up the voltage above the 3.65v mark to push the amperage. Is that an issue we should be concerned about?
Hi Andy i have a 1 Amp Version and it works fine for me, so i think that the 0.6 Amp Version will do the Job, for Top Balancing 0.6 Amp is enough
Weird enough, this bottom battery with the 0.6A active balancer is now my best-balanced pack in the whole shelf. Seems to work perfectly fine.
Yeah
#3. Enjoy.
Hi Andy,
Love the videos.
Could you give some info or a link/picture/previous video reference to the 5amp fuse protection you use on the balance wires please. Or maybe someone reading this comment could help. Thanks in advance.
Sure, the video is here in the Battery2.0 playlist:
th-cam.com/video/8wu8OKlOn7s/w-d-xo.html
Drei compt nach Zwei, in Ireland its tree (as in Tree fellas), but in Aus Boganland where "coupla beers" can range anywhere from 6 to over 12, it can be really confusing trying to determine what comes after 2. Note to self,- dont ever employ a bogan sparky.
Number 3.
Cable 3 into Port 3
Just an observation, but was putting the 100% voltage at 3.45 V (which is when you start balancing) intentional?
Yes, that's my max charge voltage and when I start balancing as well. That's also when the battery is full.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That is when I go into absorption, (55.2v) then I sit there for an hour or so, then my battery is full.
How can you sleep after covering those loose strands?
Die Einstellungen sind die gleichen wie fürs neue BMS? Dann waren diese die ganze Zeit bereits möglich.
Cable 3 to port 3
The cable has to go into 3
tres!
One thing I would note is that if you want the most accurate temperature reading of the electrolyte in the battery, the battery terminals themselves are actually the best place to put the sensor. Maximum heat conductivity straight into the depths of the battery. And since the busbars are highly heat-conducting copper...
Putting the temperature sensor on the casing is actually inferior... though very convenient, which is why most people do that.
This is again something people debate for years: where to measure the battery temperature...
Question, is the amperage for a Bms rated for its amperage use or battery amperage? Could I use a 100 BMS on a 280 amp battery setting but only draw 100 amps
Yes, the ampere rating on a BMS is what the BMS can handle, no matter the battery size.
With a 15s 15ah Lifepo4, my 40a 400ma balancing jk bms's balancing is not enough when charging at 2.5 amps(ebike battery and charger). 1 Cell always always 3.65v while others are at 3.4v. All are almost the same soc and have less than 300mah difference in capacity. What I need from jk bms is balance when charging only function.
What I suspect happens is with such low capacity, at full charge right after being balance charged at 3.65v per cell, some cells stabilize at 3.39v, some at 3.45v all at 100% soc.
But the bms tries to balance it, drawing power from the 3.45v to the 3.39v even when all cells are 100%. and that's what causes the unbalance. Its such a headache because my battery tops at 51v instead of 54v due to cell over voltage protection and the loss of speed is noticable.
My only solution would be to add 1 more cell so all of the cells top at 3.41v. when charge using my stock charger at 54.6v. My charging time will jump from 5 hrs to 8hrs+ because of low voltage difference between charger and battery to get 99% soc(tested on a 2nd battery).
My answer is 14... just to be sure I cannot win ... hahah
Hahaha, great answer!
My batteries are in my camper and are frozen often. I warm them with seedling heat mats but will the constant freeze and thaw damage the cells?
That is a great question. Are they really frozen or just very cold?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia its down to 5 f about 25 degrees below freezing for almost a week. I'm worried about them I'm an over the road truck driver and only home to use my solar battery system 2 or 3 days a month but this constant freeze and refreeze really has me worried. I spent a lot on the grade a eve 280k cells and id hate to ruin them. Any help greatly appreciated
Hi! Have two questions concerning the new JK-PB2A16S20P which should be able to communicate with deye hybrid inverters for example :
1st: I am planning to build 2 battery banks each 16 cells to run the deye inverter. So i need 2 of the above mentioned bms. The deye has only one socket for the LAN-cable. the BMS
comes with that green printed circuit board. Is this to connect the 2 LAN-cables and then with one LAN-cable to the inverter? or does it have another purpose and I need to buy a regular port switch? if the green printed circuit board has another purpose, could you explain for what?
2nd: JK has now 3 different LCD's. As i am from germany and i would like to use the HEAT function of the new BMS, the 4.3 inch and the 3.5 inch LCD's might not work at the same time because of the lack of another socket. Is this true?
Many thanks in advance for your reply!
Thanks for your questions.
1.) correct. the two RS485 ports on the right of the coms board are for internal communication of your BMS and only the master connects via CAN to your inverter.
2.) afaik, you can connect only one display
Heya, oke so you now have 2 jk bms with active balancing and 1 with passive lets see witch batterie will be balanced best
I kept the JBD to test out the Peter Slave Board with it. Otherwise, I would have bought a 2nd new JK.
My jkbms dos not have the reset Soc. How can I upgrade the firmware if the black jk version?
You can't. But there is a trick on how to reset it to 100%... I'll show you.
THREE!!!!!!!
Whats the model of the new jk bms?
Hello my friend. all in peace? Did I manage to help myself? I want to place a device on the output (AC) of the inverter against a short circuit, which is a fast-acting device, so as not to burn the output. Do you know anything for this purpose? Thank you very much in advance.