Thanks so much for watching! If you're interested in learning more social season etiquette, then definitely watch this video on making those required social calls: th-cam.com/video/QtlpjS_nGpU/w-d-xo.html
How much did personal preference play into a young woman's season and social life? Did she get to choose events based on activities and people of her liking, or was the entire thing just an artifice to jockey for position? I have difficulty seeing any room for authenticity or authentic relationships within such a rigid social construct.
@@ccburro1I think around the proposal is okay. In P&P and Persuasion, Mansfield Park etc the dudes always propose and then speak to the fathers. So long as it's pretty much straight away, after is fine.
I feel especially sorry for the girl's of poorer (if still comparatively wealthy) families who could only afford to do a single season. The pressure to get a husband in those four months must have been immense and probably led to some rushed and ultimately pretty unhappy marriages.
Oh jeez, I did not think of that. I was already assuming that it would be a miracle if any woman ended up a non-abusive/exploitative/cold/hateful marriage, much less one with actual passion and affection, but you make an excellent point about how terrifying it was to be auctioned off like cattle. Or worse--not selected at all. I'm so glad for the feminist movement.
The majority of debutants found husbands a few years after their debuts, so don't feel too badly. The important thing was they were "out', and were able to participate in society, which allowed a lady to choose carefully.
Knowing that balls generally didn't start until 10 or 11pm just puts the whole Cinderella "gotta leave by midnight" situation into perspective. Whereas as a child, you're like "midnight is SO LATE, that's more than enough time to spend with Prince Charming!"
@@nienkeh301 when you have all those tea parties and evening events and then have to change into an even fancier, more complex dress it kinda makes sense
@@MoldyGoozeexactly. Typically they would have attended a dinner party (which could go on for hours) before attending a ball, which would add more social visits to their diary. It was important to be seen daily
I love the fact that when my family went to London we had a picnic in Hyde Park, not because we knew the history of it but because it was a lot cheaper than going to a restaurant for lunch. Im lowkey depressed this didnt result in my marriage to an Earl in hindsight.
I can't imagine having one (or more) grueling seasons, accepting the first (possibly only) marriage proposal you receive from a man you have had a handful of meetings with, and then having to take on the job of helping to run his household! And how did you KNOW he actually had the money he appeared to have and wasn't in debt up to his eyeballs / had a gambling problem, etc.?
Well on the money part, you would usually have a brother/father who would check the man's reputation, credibility etc. The social circle wasn't that big, so it was fairly easy to find out if someone was lying or in debt.
Yes, it was super important to have your family do background research on these men before you said yes. And it was also prudent if a man asked you to marry him to say that you need to ask your parents first. That would give you time to have him fully check out first if you haven't already.
well , how do you know now if a man has the money he appears to have and isn't drowning in debt ? and when you marry a man now, aren't you going to be running a household? the only difference is that maybe you've known the man a little longer but that doesnt mean you really know who they are. I knew a woman who dated a man for 2 years before she found out he was married. The Victorian social circle was small and they all knew each other. The girl may not have hung out with the man for a long time, but she probably knew of him via friends. it's not like now when you meet some total stranger via some internet dating site and end up dead because you met an axe murderer.
@@anastasia10017 Your male authority figure would talk to the suitors tailor, bookie, and club manager to ask if he isn't in arears on his bills. For a more thorough review, one could also request information from your chap at inland revenue and the exchange. While the girl might only know the bachelor for a few weeks, male family members would likely be acquainted. Having gone to the same schools, college, club, regiment, etc. etc,
I’m starting to understand Mr. Darcy at a visceral level. I’d be grumpy about it all too. (Yes I know different eras, but the social expectations were similar.)
The Edwardian/Regency era was very similar in the ways of parties and walks in the park and stuff - so Mr Darcy would totally have had to endure something like this! No wonder he preferred to stay at Pemberly and be a good master. If all of his tenants and servants liked him, he would have less reason to leave his estate and be bothered with socialising! (Except of course to visit his good friend Charles Bingley)
Darcy was a gentleman with well known wealth and connections, he probably got stopped by acquaintances trying to talk business with him every time he left the house!
Remember that most of the clothes were remade for the next season, or redone for younger siblings. For instans, a good woolen coat could be taken apart, turned inside out and put together again. Many of the fabricks that were used was dobble wowen. eks: red and green plaids on one side, opposit colours on the other side. A really good seamstress could work miracles with an out of fashion dress.
Could you consider making a video about noble men's mistresses? You mentioned the opera lady being the prince's princess & I'd love your analysis on the subject!
My wife and I watch your videos over coffee or tea. This one was an eye opener. Had no idea at how expensive in today’s money having our daughter out in society would cost. But being in the manufacturing class it probably wouldn’t be our world. We would be doing the same as now, having coffee or tea but reading it in the times not watching a tablet. Great video.
Aw, thank you! I’m glad my video got invited to tea/coffee time. It feels very honored. 😃 And it was crazy expensive! I’m right there with you reading the newspaper about it in the Victorian era!
Well I imagine that was taken as an investment and bussines trade. All the money some family invest in education for sons, will be invest in this balls seasson for dougthers. After all dougther not married was a expense and you will want to marry her as soon as posible with the richest man you can cach. And I imagine it was a bussines and clubing seasson away for your arrenge married and wife too.
I loved this video. Could you do a video showing The Season from the view of an eligible young man? How much did it cost to deck out your sons? Did they get presented in court? Were they ever "on the shelf"? Did they have social obligations? Like walking in the park, going to dances or balls, or networking with wealthy older men who might have eligible daughters? Did these young men even WANT to get married? At what age did they go to the London Season? Did young men breaking into upper society work hard to get into a fancier club, in order to network? At what age did men join a club? Was it acceptable to "play the rake", meeting with actresses, or ladies of "questionable reputation"? If you weren't very rich would that hurt your reputation? (I'm sure the extremely rich young gentleman could consort with whomever he pleased without effecting his eligiblity). Suffice to say, I have lots of questions about how The Season effected men!
The novels of P.G. Wodehouse have the answers to a lot of these questions, though I agree a video would be great! (Note for younger sons: meeting with actresses is going to cost you - or rather your indignant and domineering father/uncle/guardian - a TON of money YOU don't have. There's this little thing known as breach of promise cases, which was a BIG DEAL.) And if you'd like answers from proper history rather than buried in admittedly enjoyable fiction, Agatha Christie's autobiography has an amazing and honest account of social flirtation and marriage in the early 1900s. I loved her autobiography even more than her mysteries!
I couldn't imagine myself doing any of this, I'd go directly to cat lady status. This sounds exhausting. You, on the other hand, are an amazing story teller.
Miss Dashwood, would you consider making a video on the “pecking order” of catches? Curate, Lieutenant, Naval Captain, etc? It seems fairly simple to follow Mr. Such and Such with 30,000 per year but the who part of it is more lost on modern readers.
Didn't they have "books" that listed all the "meat in the market" with yearly income and brief bios? As well as something more formal as to who was who in British Aristocracy?
@@Tina06019 Yes, in the Jeeves and Wooster series, his friend who is a curate can't get his girlfriend's guardian to agree to them marrying until he becomes a vicar with a 'living' - aptly named!
Part of the justification for well to do parents sending their smarter daughters to colleges in England and the USA was just that. With the decline of aristocracy it was one of the few places girls could meet their social equals, without being outshined by foreign (American) heiresses like they were at some society parties in England. It's still a major reason rich families will only consider certain exclusive schools for their children.
It resembles it in more ways than you think, especially once you consider that some parents send their daughters to college for the express purpose finding a husband.
You know, when I was younger at social events, I got really good at finding the dark corner, spare bedroom, or unused closet that I knew no one would check, just in case I needed it. The marriage season doesn't sound like it would do anything except give me an opportunity to use those skills again.
I need an entire day to gear myself up to a party, and take days to recover from it, and then refuse to go to anymore for ages, several months of nothing but parties is FUCKING TERRIFYING!
So interesting to lern about the Englisch season! In Austria-Hungary it was the other way around: Staying in Vienna during the winter (and having the season from New Year's to after Easter) while visiting the family's castle during the summer months and well into fall.
@@EllieDashwood I wonder why it was the other way around. Maybe because of the weather? I don't know about England, but even today most people from Vienna who can afford it go to the country during the summer months as it gets very hot in the city.
@@KahoriFutunaka the hunting season is around the winter time and the shooting in the autumn i believe so they would go back to the country for those. So i guess that is why
I know from my grandmother that they were in Siberia in the summer, and in St Petersburg, during the season, in winter. So it was the same in Russia like in Austria.
In several books, I've read about a motherless girl being taken to London for the season by a kindly relative or friend and providing all the necessities that would entail. I wonder if that scenario is very likely to happen considering the costs involved.
Id imagine it was, atleast the relative one. Since connections was a type of social currency in that era if you thought your sister or brother married down and thus worsened your connections and you could afford putting your niece through the season financially. Then doing so might be in your own best interest in order to make sure shes gaining good connections forcthe family instead of marrying further down.
I think you would find the early chapters of Agatha Christie's Autobiography of interest. Although she was born in 1890, many of the traditions were still going strong. I don't think either she or her older sister, Madge, were presented but Madge definitely had a proper "season.." But by the time Agatha was at the proper age the family's income had gone down. Her account of all this and how her mother managed to give her a season -- but in Egypt, where it was cheaper -- is very entertaining and illuminating about how the people managed who were not absolutely top, but definitely not the bottom.
@@Mary-cz5nl The only books she mentioned as being difficult were the ones published right after her divorce. She had a contract to produce a book and was too upset to write one. As I remember, she was grateful to her brother-in-law for suggesting a book of short stories previously published in magazines. That fulfilled her contract. I also remember the book she disliked because it was written next, while she was still off balance, was The Blue Train.
It is SO MUCH socializing! 😂 I think I’d be hiding somewhere at all the parties. They’d be like, “She really loves examining house plants by herself.” 😂
I would have enjoyed the dancing. But I would probably have failed miserably at attracting the 'right' suitors. I would have been the embarrassing bluestocking daughter discussing politics and poetry with the equally embarrassing (and ineligible) struggling writer in the corner and ignoring everyone else, and that would cause a scandal and we'd have to get married with nothing to live on. (Sigh . . ) Hopefully my family can afford a decent settlement, if they don't disown me 😅.
I’m British and I swear we all still love a good picnic on occasion. You should have seen some of the beauty spots coming out of lockdown. Picnics galore
For anyone interested in the American version of exactly this topic (making advantageous marriages for Victorian daughters) there's a delicious book titled "To Marry An English Lord {Tales of Wealth and Marriage, Sex and Snobbery}", which is an absolutely salacious depiction of Gilded Age life in New York City and Newport, RI. It was one of the inspirations Julian Fellowes used for Downtown Abbey. DE-LISH-USSSSS.
To be fair to the gentlemen, they aren't strictly "hiding" at their clubs. Just like ladies' morning teas and at homes, gentleman's clubs are the men's socializing spots where they not only discuss and canvass for politics, but also for the menfolk to talk shop about the financial side of marriages for their sons and daughters e.g. is the place they ask around about the character and confirm the financial health of the prospective groom/bride etc (and since this is man-to-man, they might find out things that are considered too coarse or improper to be hinted at to the ladies). So basically it's just the scene of the male side of networking. Also, I cackled at the casual mention of Edward VII's mistress lmao.
WWI ended opulence, although in "Brideshead Revisited," Evelyn Waugh relates that the 1923 season was considered to be the first really good season since the war.
Apparantly Cricket and Polo can get rather rowdy, a british heir to the crown was killed in a cricket match, and Walt Disney killed a man while playing Polo.
@Gabriela Ilyková It got worse for Disney later, he bought his parents an expensive new gas heater, it started acting up and he sent a couple of Disney engineers over to fix it, they failed and a gas leak killed Flora Disney, Elias Disneys health never really improved after that and he died 3 years later.
Horse racing picnics sound like fancy 1800s tailgating parties to me! "Dinner was at 8 or 9 o'clock" Man I could not survive on nothing more than little sandwiches and tea until that late.
It is a super unique diet! Constantly grazing all day on tiny amounts and then eating a multi-course dinner. Then going to a ball where they'll feed you again.
I would definitely hide in the club as much as possible. I would like to see you do a collaboration with Bernadette Banner. She could make a lovely gown and you could discuss when and where it would have been worn and a little bit about the social importance of fashion.
You know, here in Vienna we still have a ball season, though it's not in the summer but in winter (during carnaval) and it's also not about catching a husband anymore. Still, the balls at the Hofburg (the former palace of the Austrian emperors) are still sumptuous and you would love them. If ever the covid pandemic is over and you ever get a chance to come to Vienna during the season, give it a try! I guess the reason why the ball season is in winter here (apart from the Catholic tradition of carnaval) is the fact that the Austrian aristocracy has been pretty much concentrated in Vienna since the 18th century, most of them had palaces in the city, so they didn't need to come to court on purpose.
I'm curious about the venues in which it was acceptable for a man to propose (besides sneaking off into the gardens at a ball). Could you do it in front of other people? How did they manage if not, given that they weren't generally allowed to be alone together? I'd love a video on Victorian marriage proposals.
Debutante balls are still happening, actually. While I have never been to one, it is knowns that they are debutante balls in Paris for example. They are still pretty much reserved to the high society.
@@jessicajessica4392 I grew up in the South and debutante balls and "The Season" are still very much a thing. On the Gulf Coast where I live it generally centers around Mardi Gras. Along the East it's often in late Autumn or the time from after Christmas to early January.
They still exist in NYC, as does the season. Instead of Bath or Brighton in England, or Newport in RI, it continues into summer in the Hamptons or New England hot spots.
I love these videos and looking forward to new ones! But yeah, this season sounds very exhausting, especially if you're an introvert. forced socializing for 6 months, my goodness! And what did women do once they were married? Did they still go to these events?
That’s a great question! And the answer is yes, definitely if they could and wanted too (I can see a lot of introverts hiding in the country with PTSD at least for a couple years 😂). The season was a major social networking and climbing extravaganza for married women as well. Of course, how much a woman would be involved or invited to things would be dependent on who she married, her new social standing and how much they could afford. Also, her focus would shift from trying to find a husband to trying to be in the good graces of the top ladies of society. And of course, all those years of social networking would pay off when she had a daughter finally grown up to launch on the season.
Oh I think I’d would love it. With 15- 20 years old With birds of romantic love in head, beautiful dresses and a los of flert until sunrise!!!! Of course the morning horse rase at 9 o’ clock in the next day will be a problem to wake up 🤔
Oh but you have to be riding in Hyde Park by 9... Why bother sleeping, just change, and fix your hair appropriate for riding and continue. You can sleep if you get home to your country manor after the season....
@@EllieDashwood Regarding expensive dresses, can the girls not wear their dresses again? Its not like everyone will remember who wore what to which party right? Or they had nothing to do so they remember it all?
It's nice to see someone talk about the Victorian era without criticizing them for how sexist they were. It is a skill to be able to take historic people in their own merits rather than judging them by our standards.
@@rebeccaclark9131 exactly, it’s like when people argue that no one was against slavery during that time period. There are many accounts of people (including white people) speaking out against it, they just weren’t the ones in power.
As an introvert, the season sounds absolutely horrifying to me. I do have one question: in the public events, was there any provision for women to go pee when they needed to? Or were they expected to hold it all day? Nowadays we expect some sort of bathroom facilities, but I'm not sure that was provided then. I do remember reading once that one of the innovations at the Crystal Palace was pay toilets.
As a fellow high-pitched voice gal, I feel you on the sore throat from talking. I recommend taking to a voice coach. We tend to use our the wrong muscles when we talk.
Unfortunately I’m at that point where I’ve watched every one of your videos so now I’m just rewatching until I’m once again blessed with your upload notification, which has actually never happened before, I’ve never watched every single video on someone’s channel before, so you should certainly feel very loved, lmao
I just discovered your channel today and it's so informative! I love the way you explain everything and now all my Jane Austen and Barbara Cartland readings make so much more sense :) love from France!
You omitted the visit to one of the fashionable Pleasure Gardens which was uncommon enjoyable from the point of view of mixing with the peasantry and flaunting you riches in a more risqué atmosphere
Once marriages were settled in old London town and everyone returned to their isolated estates, throwing country house parties wasn't just for showing off the grand, impressive, and fancy; such entertainments also provided the opportunities necessary for assignations with people you actually fancy! You talk a good game here about finding love and romance, but game is exactly what such talk was for the most part in the upper echelons of the Victorian aristocracy. Much like men's clubs, marital matches were social fronts for big business. Once the virgin debs sacrificed for a family's wealth, name, and position popped out the obligatory heir and spare, then expectations about the ladies protecting their "honor" greatly changed, with invitations issued for house parties also covering bed-hopping games they could then play for pleasure. Women couldn't openly do just anything or anyone they wanted, but as long as they were discreet and followed the rules Regency/Victorian aristocracy had for everything (even adultery) and bedded down those of breeding, then there wasn't much of a fuss over the affairs, with even the exact paternity of those later children not in the heir line too much math for them to bother their heads calculating. It was even advantageous in some cases for men to be open to loaning out wives to those of higher rank and station. While she would NOT have approved of that sort of arrangement, one should always remember that Queen Victoria had a markedly lusty nature, a reputation that was so well known it was even used to lampoon her in political cartoons. She was her own kind of example about women actually enjoying sex that was also part of the era that we wrongly envision with the image of women as asexual floats in corsets and crinolines who lay back in bed thinking only of England!
Exellent critique. I got a set of books called The English Gentleman, The English Gentelman's Wife, The E.G.'s Child, and the E.G.'s Mistress. Published by Debrett, no less. It acknowledges completely what you are writing here. Especially, the bed hopping, what we would call swinging nowadays, was quite common. Great care was taken to make clear who was in what room and when. Of course, the free reign of sex was strictly forbidden for servants and peasants. As always, the upper-class has its own set of mores and what they impose upon the hapless non-upper-class, non-U's in a way, is very different. In the end, it gave us Brexit but the Brexit promoting upper-class, like Jacob RM, secretly makes sure they themselves are not affected, didn't JRM send his fortune to the continent, just to make sure? Well then, there you have it. That is how they operate.
@@SGast Unfortunately, too many doctors took that approach to patients who did NOT want to be molested, especially since they were alternately blasted with cold water and other physical tortures in between those manual molestations. However, I will say it was one of the greatest talk-show appearances I ever saw when veteran actress Ruth Warrick talked about that. Best known for her decades as Phoebe Wallingford on All My Children, she actually and ironically would become part of the inspiration for the character of Erica Kane. Born in Missouri in 1916, she started acting and singing in New York but became a Hollywood powerhouse with appearances in movies like Citizen Kane, cast because Orson Welles said he "was not looking for an actress who could PLAY a lady but one who IS a lady." Warrick was certainly that! Yet as a young lady, she was diagnosed with depression, and in discussing it with her doctor, he asked if she had a boyfriend. That trademark twinkle in her eye, Warrick in the interview then coyly explained what her doctor explained about the role of boyfriends as a cure for depression. She went on to have 5 husbands before deciding she didn't need one of those to partake of the cure! (Yeah, I know, it's not Victorian dating and etiquette, but I just couldn't resist injecting a happier note on the best prescription for a case of the vapors a doctor ever wrote!)
Had a slight camera shaking problem and I started getting worried about earth quakes or fracking tremors hitting you. Another excellent video. I'm gonna have to start a playlist for my own regency/victorian education needs.
😂 Yes! I notice that too! I started using a different lens and it had this auto stabilization feature turned on that for some reason in video mode caused earthquakes. But I’ve turned it off so I think it’s better now. 😂
I can't even imagine the indecision! What if you like someone on your first Season but you're not too sure and there's always next year to maybe find the love of your life but then you might lose your first choice because you didn't snap him up when you had the chance and now it's been three Seasons and no one else is asking and soon you'll be on the shelf....😫😱😆
I laughed when you mentioned no picnic food at the opera because Glyndebourne Opera became a big part of upper class English society in the 20th century and that involves a picnic 😅😅
Very well done! You have a great mixture of serious historical narrative and tongue-in-cheek distance to the dating and mating rituals of times gone by.
Socializing from April to August, only stopping to sleep (maybe) and changing your clothes (with the help of a maid I presume). My biggest nightmare. I would've become a cat lady
Awwww, I was hoping you'd mention Eliza Doolittle’s iconic dress from the Ascot race scene in My Fair Lady (I realize that was slightly later but it’s just SUCH a good dress)
Aw, thank you! I you've probably seen it already (it takes me forever to get to comments 🤦🏻♀️) but if you haven't yet here is the link to it: th-cam.com/video/QtlpjS_nGpU/w-d-xo.html
One of your most enjoyable talks! Love the little dig at Lillie Langtry. Also would love to hear you explain that for every event you had to wear a different dress suitable to the occasion. Even if you were at home, you wouldn't wear a morning dress in the afternoon or vice versa. There were really strict standards on what was considered appropriate attire for any event at any specific place or time of day. That was why it was so expensive to outfit a girl; all that money was needed for all those dresses and accessories. Probably you wouldn't even want to wear the same dress twice!
As some of us have been learning on the costuming channels, dresses were often made in two pieces. Two or three extra bodices would be made to match the skirt, each one having a different level of body coverage/exposure and ornamentation. For day, full coverage of the arms and neck, then later with shorter sleeves, and showing a little chest, then for much later, off the shoulder with a lot of decolletage. They weren't totally throwing money about with abandon, unless fantabulously wealthy.
Oh, I definitely agree! I do Gilbert and Sullivan dramatics as a hobby, and if I could I would do it all the time, never mind a 'career' (which to my mind is just a fancy way of saying 'earn enough at your job so you can afford the commute!' 😂) Yes, it takes effort to get all dressed up and learn the 'lines' and deal with all the other 'actors' and the complicated dance steps, but at the end of the day it's FUN!
I have been enjoying your videos this week. I'm not a big Jane Austen fan, but I'm now interested to go read and reread some of her books with this new background info you explained. Thank you for sharing it all.
Your comments at the end about a debutante being on the shelf reminded me of the panic endured by the receding chances at a match by character Georgiana Longstaffe in The Way We Live Now by Anthony Trollope!
I love your videos! I was actually wondering what sort of events a season had outside of balls and picnics and the opera! This is exactly what I needed! I do have a few questions: 1. Are At Home parties the same as tea parties? 2. What did people do during a reception if they weren’t dancing?
I cannot speak for at home parties, but at receptions you would ( in Ellie Dashwoods words) be social networking, talking to other debutantes, to other people in high society, to potential husbands, mothers of eligible men, your friends and other people you would meet. You would not be able to talk to a person unless introduced formerly by the hostess or your mother/ sponsor, therefore you would talk to the person you were just introduced to or talking to your own group with which you came with. Hope that helps with one of your questions :)
Some of this leads me to wonder about Jane Bennett in P&P. She was beautiful, refined, and goes about a year between the Mr. Bingley interactions yet does not meet up with another suitor in all that time. This even with spending a few months in London with the Gardiners, her aunt and uncle, who presumably have engagements she would have participated in. While they were not upper class/rich, it seems they had enough to have Jane be involved in some of ‘the season’ activities and so I found it unrealistic to have her languish for nearly a year (in the story) without progressing socially as to the marriage state or possible suitors. Those are my thoughts - thanks for the video!
I've thought about that too. I guess I assumed that she was shy and did not put herself out there enough. Beauty was a plus but all by itself did not do as much for you as money/fashion/a good dowry?
The Gardiners were not of the aristocracy or even landed gentry. They would not have received invites for the season. They might have had a limited social circle among their social equivalents but this would have had nothing to do with the season per se. They could promenade in the park or buy tickets to the opera but they would have no introductions and without introductions people would not talk to them or give them entree to other events. The Gardiners weren't even on the fringes of society.
The Gardiners are from trade, but they are described as being very well educated and refined, and they know how to behave at Pemberley, so Jane could participate to some of these events. There are a few mentions of her going to the theatre and enjoying herself in London (after the 2 weeks where she stays at home every morning waiting for Miss Bingley’s visit), but my theory is that she is just sad. Lizzie is quite worried when she reads her letters, and I think that having been (quite suddenly and rudely) rejected by Bingley while she was in love does not give her much energy and motivation to go socializing so often. And we know that she can be a bit shy. So being outside of your usual circle, with little friends around you, when you are shy and have just been broken up with - not the best mindset to meet someone new. (Lizzie also mentions to Darcy that separating Jane and Bingley was bad for her because she could be made fun of for being played by Bingley - so another reason may be that people in London know that she has just been rejected, not the best recommendation!)
I have been binging your videos all day…the only thing that brighten up my Monday. Hands down the most interesting youtube channel! Hugs from Hong Kong :)
Hi. I’ve recently subscribed to your channel and I love it and I was wondering if you’d covered the topic of travel in the regency and Victorian eras? How people travelled from place to place and what the different styles of carriages that they could afford depending on their class of course?
I've always wanted to know more of the ins and outs of "the season", and other things I could only piece together and guess about in British social history. One thing that always confused me, was how late these balls began in the pre-electricity age. Just traveling in the dark from one place to another would seem like a big deal, yet they seemed to do it. There also was some thing about the tilt of the Earth in summer in England and Scotland where I'd read remarks like, "It never gets dark here". I'd like to understand more about it.
Yeah the UK is at a high latitude. It doesn't start getting dark until about 8 or 9pm, and in June around the equinox, it may not get properly dark at all. Plus, there were lanterns and a lot of the major streets were even lit by gas lamps by that point.
I just discovered your channel and love it! You answer so many questions I have in my head when reading, watching, or studying period drama or history. I am so curious about society in America, Ireland, NZ, Australia, ect… if they have any different customs. It seems that the continent had similar societal customs as England but curious about the differences. Did the whole of the UK also do their seasons in London? Did they combine London with Dublin, Glasgow, Cardiff, ect??
I know races in Australia were definitely society events, & people got their outfits written up in the papers - I don't know if there was an official 'season', as it were - but there were definitely many of the same social events; Sydney & Melbourne were quite developed by the time of Federation- & Brisbane was also well on its' way (all that gold rush money, & beef, wool, cotton, & sugar money, don't you know); they had theatres & _the_ elite were known as 'the Government House set'. Well-to-do families had their own boxes at the theatre & opera, & their family pews at church - I have been meaning to do more research into my country's social expectations, for the background of a novel I was working on (actually, there were two- one being set much earlier, when things in colonial society might have been different).
Well that sounds like my own personal nightmare, lol. What I'm curious about is how people in more humble circumstances found spouses, maybe a future video on that?
I think that rather poor people were socialising too, at local dances, at the market, running day-to-day errands, at church masses... Unless you were living alone in the woods you definitely got to meet people and find someone who would like you.
Such an informative video, thank you! 😊 Has helped my research. Fantastic video, though my only suggestion is perhaps placing the camera on a surface that doesn't cause it to bump and jump every time you move. 😊 First time visiting your channel, I'm definitely subscribing ❤
A fair number of girls who were unsuccessful in finding a husband after doing a couple of seasons would take a passage to India to try to catch a colonial official or officer in the Indian Army who had reached the age where if they wanted to progress further in their career they had to marry. (Lieutenants can't marry, Captains shouldn't marry, Majors may marry and Colonels must marry) This yearly migration of women was known, unkindly as the fishing fleet.
An "at home"... I remember my mother (1914-1987) having one in 1986, explaining what it was to her invited guests. Also thinking that the 50 mile distance would be about two days travel with one's own horses, possibly less by "Post" as the horses would be either baited or changed every five to ten miles and there was a schedule to keep. Somehow I doubt our debutante and family traveled by Post - just not prestigious enough (though Elizabeth Bennett and Maria Lucas returned from Rosings part way by Post)
Anyone else make the connections between the races and the American trend of meeting your high school sweetheart at a football game? Also the picnics remind me of tailgating. The more things change the more they stay the same I guess.
The little jiggle the camera does every few seconds was super distracting and made it hard to watch without getting motion sickness, BUT I really enjoyed listening! Keep up the good work!
I really really really really liked this video. I’m in a Victorian and history group on Facebook I’m gonna share it there. You know how bbc’s Lucy Worsley I think her name is does a documentary step by step wouldnt it be great if there was a reenactment of what you just explained? Great video thanks!!!
You got the date of the season wrong! The season was from around October to the end of June - which coincided with the state opening of Parliament at the beginning of November and the end of that year's session when Parliament recessed in June. They went back to their country estates in summer - not winter.
![TIMETHAI - ไม่อยากให้เป็นเขา (Why tho?) [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/o2qYlGVVtOw/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks so much for watching! If you're interested in learning more social season etiquette, then definitely watch this video on making those required social calls: th-cam.com/video/QtlpjS_nGpU/w-d-xo.html
Didn’t the potential groom need to get the parents permission before proposing?
How much did personal preference play into a young woman's season and social life? Did she get to choose events based on activities and people of her liking, or was the entire thing just an artifice to jockey for position? I have difficulty seeing any room for authenticity or authentic relationships within such a rigid social construct.
@@ccburro1I think around the proposal is okay. In P&P and Persuasion, Mansfield Park etc the dudes always propose and then speak to the fathers.
So long as it's pretty much straight away, after is fine.
I'm thinking back to Charlotte Lucas, poor woman must have been excruciatingly aware of being a burden. I like that they put that in the 2005 film.
I feel especially sorry for the girl's of poorer (if still comparatively wealthy) families who could only afford to do a single season. The pressure to get a husband in those four months must have been immense and probably led to some rushed and ultimately pretty unhappy marriages.
That happened in The Eustace Diamonds, and it had quite a tragic ending :-(
Oh jeez, I did not think of that. I was already assuming that it would be a miracle if any woman ended up a non-abusive/exploitative/cold/hateful marriage, much less one with actual passion and affection, but you make an excellent point about how terrifying it was to be auctioned off like cattle. Or worse--not selected at all. I'm so glad for the feminist movement.
@@alexia3552 it still happens today, plenty of young women are shipped off to college being told by their parents to find a husband there.
The majority of debutants found husbands a few years after their debuts, so don't feel too badly. The important thing was they were "out', and were able to participate in society, which allowed a lady to choose carefully.
I would make sure to make loads of genuine friends in warmer parts of England who might invite me over in the winter...
Knowing that balls generally didn't start until 10 or 11pm just puts the whole Cinderella "gotta leave by midnight" situation into perspective. Whereas as a child, you're like "midnight is SO LATE, that's more than enough time to spend with Prince Charming!"
_oh_
Why would they start so late?
@@nienkeh301 when you have all those tea parties and evening events and then have to change into an even fancier, more complex dress it kinda makes sense
@@MoldyGoozeexactly. Typically they would have attended a dinner party (which could go on for hours) before attending a ball, which would add more social visits to their diary. It was important to be seen daily
I love the fact that when my family went to London we had a picnic in Hyde Park, not because we knew the history of it but because it was a lot cheaper than going to a restaurant for lunch.
Im lowkey depressed this didnt result in my marriage to an Earl in hindsight.
For some reason I feel like getting dressed up and eating picnic food.
Fancy picnics are the best!!!
Do it, I dress up in period clothing and walk around town, why not?
Me too!
I can't imagine having one (or more) grueling seasons, accepting the first (possibly only) marriage proposal you receive from a man you have had a handful of meetings with, and then having to take on the job of helping to run his household! And how did you KNOW he actually had the money he appeared to have and wasn't in debt up to his eyeballs / had a gambling problem, etc.?
Well on the money part, you would usually have a brother/father who would check the man's reputation, credibility etc. The social circle wasn't that big, so it was fairly easy to find out if someone was lying or in debt.
Yes, it was super important to have your family do background research on these men before you said yes. And it was also prudent if a man asked you to marry him to say that you need to ask your parents first. That would give you time to have him fully check out first if you haven't already.
@@EllieDashwood This still happens today on certain "upper class" dating sites ,so nothing changes just the method of introduction .
well , how do you know now if a man has the money he appears to have and isn't drowning in debt ? and when you marry a man now, aren't you going to be running a household? the only difference is that maybe you've known the man a little longer but that doesnt mean you really know who they are. I knew a woman who dated a man for 2 years before she found out he was married. The Victorian social circle was small and they all knew each other. The girl may not have hung out with the man for a long time, but she probably knew of him via friends. it's not like now when you meet some total stranger via some internet dating site and end up dead because you met an axe murderer.
@@anastasia10017 Your male authority figure would talk to the suitors tailor, bookie, and club manager to ask if he isn't in arears on his bills. For a more thorough review, one could also request information from your chap at inland revenue and the exchange. While the girl might only know the bachelor for a few weeks, male family members would likely be acquainted. Having gone to the same schools, college, club, regiment, etc. etc,
I’m starting to understand Mr. Darcy at a visceral level. I’d be grumpy about it all too.
(Yes I know different eras, but the social expectations were similar.)
The Edwardian/Regency era was very similar in the ways of parties and walks in the park and stuff - so Mr Darcy would totally have had to endure something like this!
No wonder he preferred to stay at Pemberly and be a good master. If all of his tenants and servants liked him, he would have less reason to leave his estate and be bothered with socialising!
(Except of course to visit his good friend Charles Bingley)
Darcy was a gentleman with well known wealth and connections, he probably got stopped by acquaintances trying to talk business with him every time he left the house!
Having to do all of that sounds like torture to my introvert soul! On a positive note, I really enjoy your videos. 😊 Thank you for another great one!
Aw! Thank you!!! 😃😃😃 And it’s definitely an introvert’s worst nightmare! 🤯
Same. I don't really know if I'm a real introvert, but I hate the concept of networking.
yeah....social anxiety would make the Season of the Ton hell on earth.
You would have your mother do most of the talking and networking, I guess. It does sound like a nightmare, though
Could you get away with lazy introverted days and stay home or did you always have to fake or call in sick?
Remember that most of the clothes were remade for the next season, or redone for younger siblings. For instans, a good woolen coat could be taken apart, turned inside out and put together again. Many of the fabricks that were used was dobble wowen. eks: red and green plaids on one side, opposit colours on the other side. A really good seamstress could work miracles with an out of fashion dress.
Could you consider making a video about noble men's mistresses? You mentioned the opera lady being the prince's princess & I'd love your analysis on the subject!
That does sound like an interesting topic! I'll definitely write it down.
*Mistress:" that was a whole different thing to "wife."
Ellie should write a choose your own adventure book based on victorian marriage season.
True!!!
My wife and I watch your videos over coffee or tea. This one was an eye opener. Had no idea at how expensive in today’s money having our daughter out in society would cost.
But being in the manufacturing class it probably wouldn’t be our world. We would be doing the same as now, having coffee or tea but reading it in the times not watching a tablet.
Great video.
Aw, thank you! I’m glad my video got invited to tea/coffee time. It feels very honored. 😃 And it was crazy expensive! I’m right there with you reading the newspaper about it in the Victorian era!
Well I imagine that was taken as an investment and bussines trade. All the money some family invest in education for sons, will be invest in this balls seasson for dougthers. After all dougther not married was a expense and you will want to marry her as soon as posible with the richest man you can cach. And I imagine it was a bussines and clubing seasson away for your arrenge married and wife too.
I loved this video. Could you do a video showing The Season from the view of an eligible young man? How much did it cost to deck out your sons? Did they get presented in court? Were they ever "on the shelf"? Did they have social obligations? Like walking in the park, going to dances or balls, or networking with wealthy older men who might have eligible daughters? Did these young men even WANT to get married? At what age did they go to the London Season? Did young men breaking into upper society work hard to get into a fancier club, in order to network? At what age did men join a club? Was it acceptable to "play the rake", meeting with actresses, or ladies of "questionable reputation"? If you weren't very rich would that hurt your reputation? (I'm sure the extremely rich young gentleman could consort with whomever he pleased without effecting his eligiblity). Suffice to say, I have lots of questions about how The Season effected men!
I think that's a wonderful topic.
Oh yes, that sounds fascinating! Expecially for "younger sons".
That sounds interesting! Looking forward to a video like that.
The novels of P.G. Wodehouse have the answers to a lot of these questions, though I agree a video would be great! (Note for younger sons: meeting with actresses is going to cost you - or rather your indignant and domineering father/uncle/guardian - a TON of money YOU don't have. There's this little thing known as breach of promise cases, which was a BIG DEAL.) And if you'd like answers from proper history rather than buried in admittedly enjoyable fiction, Agatha Christie's autobiography has an amazing and honest account of social flirtation and marriage in the early 1900s. I loved her autobiography even more than her mysteries!
My great grandmother was a debutante. I can’t imagine what it would have felt like to live in that era
I couldn't imagine myself doing any of this, I'd go directly to cat lady status. This sounds exhausting. You, on the other hand, are an amazing story teller.
Marriage Season sounds like a lot of work and stress!
😂 It really does!
Miss Dashwood, would you consider making a video on the “pecking order” of catches? Curate, Lieutenant, Naval Captain, etc?
It seems fairly simple to follow Mr. Such and Such with 30,000 per year but the who part of it is more lost on modern readers.
I love that idea!😃 I will have to jot it down and see what I can do. 🤔
Didn't they have "books" that listed all the "meat in the market" with yearly income and brief bios? As well as something more formal as to who was who in British Aristocracy?
This would be good
Curates were generally pretty low in the pecking order. They were the (usually) poorly-paid assistants to the vicar, priest, or rector.
@@Tina06019 Yes, in the Jeeves and Wooster series, his friend who is a curate can't get his girlfriend's guardian to agree to them marrying until he becomes a vicar with a 'living' - aptly named!
The more I think about it the more the Victorian marriage season resembles getting into a fancy university these days, take or add a thing.
That's super interesting! I hadn't thought of it that way but I can definitely see that.
Part of the justification for well to do parents sending their smarter daughters to colleges in England and the USA was just that. With the decline of aristocracy it was one of the few places girls could meet their social equals, without being outshined by foreign (American) heiresses like they were at some society parties in England. It's still a major reason rich families will only consider certain exclusive schools for their children.
It resembles it in more ways than you think, especially once you consider that some parents send their daughters to college for the express purpose finding a husband.
You know, when I was younger at social events, I got really good at finding the dark corner, spare bedroom, or unused closet that I knew no one would check, just in case I needed it. The marriage season doesn't sound like it would do anything except give me an opportunity to use those skills again.
You would just have to make sure there wasn't a man hiding in the same place as you, otherwise THE SCANDAL.
I need an entire day to gear myself up to a party, and take days to recover from it, and then refuse to go to anymore for ages, several months of nothing but parties is FUCKING TERRIFYING!
I couldn't agree more!!!
So interesting to lern about the Englisch season! In Austria-Hungary it was the other way around: Staying in Vienna during the winter (and having the season from New Year's to after Easter) while visiting the family's castle during the summer months and well into fall.
That's so interesting! And sounds so cool!
@@EllieDashwood I wonder why it was the other way around. Maybe because of the weather? I don't know about England, but even today most people from Vienna who can afford it go to the country during the summer months as it gets very hot in the city.
@@KahoriFutunaka the hunting season is around the winter time and the shooting in the autumn i believe so they would go back to the country for those. So i guess that is why
I know from my grandmother that they were in Siberia in the summer, and in St Petersburg, during the season, in winter. So it was the same in Russia like in Austria.
Wow. I never expected the season would cost SOOOO much. That's really 1-3%
The sad thing is it was a total double standard. A family with only sons had a *much* less expensive clothing bill and less expectations on them. 😭
In several books, I've read about a motherless girl being taken to London for the season by a kindly relative or friend and providing all the necessities that would entail. I wonder if that scenario is very likely to happen considering the costs involved.
Id imagine it was, atleast the relative one. Since connections was a type of social currency in that era if you thought your sister or brother married down and thus worsened your connections and you could afford putting your niece through the season financially. Then doing so might be in your own best interest in order to make sure shes gaining good connections forcthe family instead of marrying further down.
I think you would find the early chapters of Agatha Christie's Autobiography of interest. Although she was born in 1890, many of the traditions were still going strong. I don't think either she or her older sister, Madge, were presented but Madge definitely had a proper "season.." But by the time Agatha was at the proper age the family's income had gone down. Her account of all this and how her mother managed to give her a season -- but in Egypt, where it was cheaper -- is very entertaining and illuminating about how the people managed who were not absolutely top, but definitely not the bottom.
Interesting book, new idea of AC, wrote a book when she needed cash, I wonder if those were the less fun
@@Mary-cz5nl The only books she mentioned as being difficult were the ones published right after her divorce. She had a contract to produce a book and was too upset to write one. As I remember, she was grateful to her brother-in-law for suggesting a book of short stories previously published in magazines. That fulfilled her contract. I also remember the book she disliked because it was written next, while she was still off balance, was The Blue Train.
Such an interesting video! I would have hated doing all this forced socializing for 6 months 👀
It is SO MUCH socializing! 😂 I think I’d be hiding somewhere at all the parties. They’d be like, “She really loves examining house plants by herself.” 😂
@@EllieDashwood 🤣🤣
All the socially akward edgy teens will be hiding in the library at every ball, desperately trying to ignore each other.
I would have enjoyed the dancing. But I would probably have failed miserably at attracting the 'right' suitors. I would have been the embarrassing bluestocking daughter discussing politics and poetry with the equally embarrassing (and ineligible) struggling writer in the corner and ignoring everyone else, and that would cause a scandal and we'd have to get married with nothing to live on. (Sigh . . ) Hopefully my family can afford a decent settlement, if they don't disown me 😅.
I’m British and I swear we all still love a good picnic on occasion. You should have seen some of the beauty spots coming out of lockdown. Picnics galore
For anyone interested in the American version of exactly this topic (making advantageous marriages for Victorian daughters) there's a delicious book titled "To Marry An English Lord {Tales of Wealth and Marriage, Sex and Snobbery}", which is an absolutely salacious depiction of Gilded Age life in New York City and Newport, RI. It was one of the inspirations Julian Fellowes used for Downtown Abbey. DE-LISH-USSSSS.
To be fair to the gentlemen, they aren't strictly "hiding" at their clubs. Just like ladies' morning teas and at homes, gentleman's clubs are the men's socializing spots where they not only discuss and canvass for politics, but also for the menfolk to talk shop about the financial side of marriages for their sons and daughters e.g. is the place they ask around about the character and confirm the financial health of the prospective groom/bride etc (and since this is man-to-man, they might find out things that are considered too coarse or improper to be hinted at to the ladies). So basically it's just the scene of the male side of networking.
Also, I cackled at the casual mention of Edward VII's mistress lmao.
WWI ended opulence, although in "Brideshead Revisited," Evelyn Waugh relates that the 1923 season was considered to be the first really good season since the war.
"Giant group picnic" sounds like tailgating.
Apparantly Cricket and Polo can get rather rowdy, a british heir to the crown was killed in a cricket match, and Walt Disney killed a man while playing Polo.
@Gabriela Ilyková Disney was a bad rider, he accidentally killed a man in a polo match.
@Gabriela Ilyková It got worse for Disney later, he bought his parents an expensive new gas heater, it started acting up and he sent a couple of Disney engineers over to fix it, they failed and a gas leak killed Flora Disney, Elias Disneys health never really improved after that and he died 3 years later.
Horse racing picnics sound like fancy 1800s tailgating parties to me! "Dinner was at 8 or 9 o'clock" Man I could not survive on nothing more than little sandwiches and tea until that late.
It is a super unique diet! Constantly grazing all day on tiny amounts and then eating a multi-course dinner. Then going to a ball where they'll feed you again.
I’ve been to high tea. You leave quite full.
I would definitely hide in the club as much as possible. I would like to see you do a collaboration with Bernadette Banner. She could make a lovely gown and you could discuss when and where it would have been worn and a little bit about the social importance of fashion.
😂 The club definitely had its perks! Also, that is a super interesting idea. I will have to look into such things... 🤔😃
@@EllieDashwood yes Collab with her
She enjoys Collaborations so you should be good. She is in London now.
You know, here in Vienna we still have a ball season, though it's not in the summer but in winter (during carnaval) and it's also not about catching a husband anymore. Still, the balls at the Hofburg (the former palace of the Austrian emperors) are still sumptuous and you would love them. If ever the covid pandemic is over and you ever get a chance to come to Vienna during the season, give it a try!
I guess the reason why the ball season is in winter here (apart from the Catholic tradition of carnaval) is the fact that the Austrian aristocracy has been pretty much concentrated in Vienna since the 18th century, most of them had palaces in the city, so they didn't need to come to court on purpose.
I'm curious about the venues in which it was acceptable for a man to propose (besides sneaking off into the gardens at a ball). Could you do it in front of other people? How did they manage if not, given that they weren't generally allowed to be alone together? I'd love a video on Victorian marriage proposals.
I move for a revival! 😂 Can't we all dramatically debut in sumptuous gowns at refined parties and meet handsome, well-dressed gentlemen?
😂 That would fun!
Debutante balls are still happening, actually. While I have never been to one, it is knowns that they are debutante balls in Paris for example. They are still pretty much reserved to the high society.
@@jessicajessica4392 Interesting...!
@@jessicajessica4392 I grew up in the South and debutante balls and "The Season" are still very much a thing. On the Gulf Coast where I live it generally centers around Mardi Gras. Along the East it's often in late Autumn or the time from after Christmas to early January.
They still exist in NYC, as does the season. Instead of Bath or Brighton in England, or Newport in RI, it continues into summer in the Hamptons or New England hot spots.
I love these videos and looking forward to new ones! But yeah, this season sounds very exhausting, especially if you're an introvert. forced socializing for 6 months, my goodness! And what did women do once they were married? Did they still go to these events?
That’s a great question! And the answer is yes, definitely if they could and wanted too (I can see a lot of introverts hiding in the country with PTSD at least for a couple years 😂). The season was a major social networking and climbing extravaganza for married women as well. Of course, how much a woman would be involved or invited to things would be dependent on who she married, her new social standing and how much they could afford. Also, her focus would shift from trying to find a husband to trying to be in the good graces of the top ladies of society. And of course, all those years of social networking would pay off when she had a daughter finally grown up to launch on the season.
Some people were so poor then the only place they went at night was a penny sit up. I have no sympathy for the rich people!
It sounds exhausting! Constant parties, walking, dressing, talking, polite flirting, and all the minute details that or took to"work the season".
Picnic-ing sounds fun ! The line from Ever After popped into my head "I'm just here for the food" 😆😅
Being a morning person, I like to see the sunrise at the beginning of the day, not the end! So all that just sounds exhausting!
It really does. And I'm even a night person. 😂
Oh I think I’d would love it. With 15- 20 years old With birds of romantic love in head, beautiful dresses and a los of flert until sunrise!!!! Of course the morning horse rase at 9 o’ clock in the next day will be a problem to wake up 🤔
Oh but you have to be riding in Hyde Park by 9... Why bother sleeping, just change, and fix your hair appropriate for riding and continue. You can sleep if you get home to your country manor after the season....
Rich people are ridiculous no matter the era.
😂 They had a lot of money, a lot of time, and nothing better to do.
@Adelaide Beeman-White well said.
@@EllieDashwood Regarding expensive dresses, can the girls not wear their dresses again? Its not like everyone will remember who wore what to which party right? Or they had nothing to do so they remember it all?
@@fc7307 I belive it could lead to a ton of gossip about your family's financial state, and how you cannot afford another
@@fc7307 Their closer social circles surely remembered it...
It's nice to see someone talk about the Victorian era without criticizing them for how sexist they were. It is a skill to be able to take historic people in their own merits rather than judging them by our standards.
It's not just today's standards though, a lot of people in Victorian times spoke about how sexist Victorian society was.
@@rebeccaclark9131 exactly, it’s like when people argue that no one was against slavery during that time period. There are many accounts of people (including white people) speaking out against it, they just weren’t the ones in power.
Awesome. Great. So happy for you. Wow.
History is my most favorite subject, all through high school and even through to this day. It’s just so fascinating.
As an introvert, the season sounds absolutely horrifying to me.
I do have one question: in the public events, was there any provision for women to go pee when they needed to? Or were they expected to hold it all day? Nowadays we expect some sort of bathroom facilities, but I'm not sure that was provided then. I do remember reading once that one of the innovations at the Crystal Palace was pay toilets.
As a fellow high-pitched voice gal, I feel you on the sore throat from talking. I recommend taking to a voice coach. We tend to use our the wrong muscles when we talk.
Unfortunately I’m at that point where I’ve watched every one of your videos so now I’m just rewatching until I’m once again blessed with your upload notification, which has actually never happened before, I’ve never watched every single video on someone’s channel before, so you should certainly feel very loved, lmao
I just discovered your channel today and it's so informative! I love the way you explain everything and now all my Jane Austen and Barbara Cartland readings make so much more sense :) love from France!
😃😃😃 Aw! I’m so glad it’s helpful! Welcome to the channel!!! ☺️
I used to collect Barbara Cartland books for the covers and loved reading them as a teen!
I would be totally screwed if I had to rely on my parents choosing a husband for me 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️.
😂 Parents definitely have different ideas.
Same here
This is soooo helpful!!! It clears up so much when watching period dramas!!
Yay! 😃😃😃
Girl, you’re so funny! 🦋 (laughing tears watching your spin on things) I love everything Victorian and you are making such awesome videos about it! 🌸
You omitted the visit to one of the fashionable Pleasure Gardens which was uncommon enjoyable from the point of view of mixing with the peasantry and flaunting you riches in a more risqué atmosphere
Once marriages were settled in old London town and everyone returned to their isolated estates, throwing country house parties wasn't just for showing off the grand, impressive, and fancy; such entertainments also provided the opportunities necessary for assignations with people you actually fancy! You talk a good game here about finding love and romance, but game is exactly what such talk was for the most part in the upper echelons of the Victorian aristocracy. Much like men's clubs, marital matches were social fronts for big business. Once the virgin debs sacrificed for a family's wealth, name, and position popped out the obligatory heir and spare, then expectations about the ladies protecting their "honor" greatly changed, with invitations issued for house parties also covering bed-hopping games they could then play for pleasure. Women couldn't openly do just anything or anyone they wanted, but as long as they were discreet and followed the rules Regency/Victorian aristocracy had for everything (even adultery) and bedded down those of breeding, then there wasn't much of a fuss over the affairs, with even the exact paternity of those later children not in the heir line too much math for them to bother their heads calculating. It was even advantageous in some cases for men to be open to loaning out wives to those of higher rank and station. While she would NOT have approved of that sort of arrangement, one should always remember that Queen Victoria had a markedly lusty nature, a reputation that was so well known it was even used to lampoon her in political cartoons. She was her own kind of example about women actually enjoying sex that was also part of the era that we wrongly envision with the image of women as asexual floats in corsets and crinolines who lay back in bed thinking only of England!
Exellent critique. I got a set of books called The English Gentleman, The English Gentelman's Wife, The E.G.'s Child, and the E.G.'s Mistress. Published by Debrett, no less. It acknowledges completely what you are writing here. Especially, the bed hopping, what we would call swinging nowadays, was quite common. Great care was taken to make clear who was in what room and when. Of course, the free reign of sex was strictly forbidden for servants and peasants. As always, the upper-class has its own set of mores and what they impose upon the hapless non-upper-class, non-U's in a way, is very different. In the end, it gave us Brexit but the Brexit promoting upper-class, like Jacob RM, secretly makes sure they themselves are not affected, didn't JRM send his fortune to the continent, just to make sure? Well then, there you have it. That is how they operate.
Apparently you could get a strapping yound doctor to get to give you an intimate massage when you fainted enough.
@@SGast Unfortunately, too many doctors took that approach to patients who did NOT want to be molested, especially since they were alternately blasted with cold water and other physical tortures in between those manual molestations. However, I will say it was one of the greatest talk-show appearances I ever saw when veteran actress Ruth Warrick talked about that. Best known for her decades as Phoebe Wallingford on All My Children, she actually and ironically would become part of the inspiration for the character of Erica Kane. Born in Missouri in 1916, she started acting and singing in New York but became a Hollywood powerhouse with appearances in movies like Citizen Kane, cast because Orson Welles said he "was not looking for an actress who could PLAY a lady but one who IS a lady." Warrick was certainly that! Yet as a young lady, she was diagnosed with depression, and in discussing it with her doctor, he asked if she had a boyfriend. That trademark twinkle in her eye, Warrick in the interview then coyly explained what her doctor explained about the role of boyfriends as a cure for depression. She went on to have 5 husbands before deciding she didn't need one of those to partake of the cure! (Yeah, I know, it's not Victorian dating and etiquette, but I just couldn't resist injecting a happier note on the best prescription for a case of the vapors a doctor ever wrote!)
@@charlesvanderhoog7056 lol wasn’t Brexit mostly voted in by the Northern working class
Had a slight camera shaking problem and I started getting worried about earth quakes or fracking tremors hitting you. Another excellent video. I'm gonna have to start a playlist for my own regency/victorian education needs.
😂 Yes! I notice that too! I started using a different lens and it had this auto stabilization feature turned on that for some reason in video mode caused earthquakes. But I’ve turned it off so I think it’s better now. 😂
I can't even imagine the indecision! What if you like someone on your first Season but you're not too sure and there's always next year to maybe find the love of your life but then you might lose your first choice because you didn't snap him up when you had the chance and now it's been three Seasons and no one else is asking and soon you'll be on the shelf....😫😱😆
That would be so incredibly scary and sad!!!! 😭😭😭
I laughed when you mentioned no picnic food at the opera because Glyndebourne Opera became a big part of upper class English society in the 20th century and that involves a picnic 😅😅
😂😂😂 Nothing can stop picnic food from taking over in the end!
Your videos are so, so informative and interesting. Thank you for everything you're doing for us!!
Aw, thank you so much!!!
Very well done! You have a great mixture of serious historical narrative and tongue-in-cheek distance to the dating and mating rituals of times gone by.
What a charming video! Thank you!
Socializing from April to August, only stopping to sleep (maybe) and changing your clothes (with the help of a maid I presume). My biggest nightmare. I would've become a cat lady
I love your videos! You have such a talent to bring the victorian era to life - very funny, informative and interesting.
It's all sounds very exhausting, thank god i'm a peasant living in 21st century
LMAO. Mood. 😂✋
Awwww, I was hoping you'd mention Eliza Doolittle’s iconic dress from the Ascot race scene in My Fair Lady (I realize that was slightly later but it’s just SUCH a good dress)
I mean, that scene makes a lot more sense now
Love that you have good art from the era----James Tissot!
I just found this channel, what a blessing!
I'm excited for the video about social calls!
Aw, thank you! I you've probably seen it already (it takes me forever to get to comments 🤦🏻♀️) but if you haven't yet here is the link to it: th-cam.com/video/QtlpjS_nGpU/w-d-xo.html
One of your most enjoyable talks! Love the little dig at Lillie Langtry. Also would love to hear you explain that for every event you had to wear a different dress suitable to the occasion. Even if you were at home, you wouldn't wear a morning dress in the afternoon or vice versa. There were really strict standards on what was considered appropriate attire for any event at any specific place or time of day. That was why it was so expensive to outfit a girl; all that money was needed for all those dresses and accessories. Probably you wouldn't even want to wear the same dress twice!
That is such a good point! The sheer amount of clothing changes must have been exhausting!
As some of us have been learning on the costuming channels, dresses were often made in two pieces. Two or three extra bodices would be made to match the skirt, each one having a different level of body coverage/exposure and ornamentation. For day, full coverage of the arms and neck, then later with shorter sleeves, and showing a little chest, then for much later, off the shoulder with a lot of decolletage. They weren't totally throwing money about with abandon, unless fantabulously wealthy.
I would rather do this than a 9-5 tbh. I know I have every much unpopular opinion but I do love to get dressed up and party 😂
It sounds exhausting to me now, but when I was younger, I was very social, so I would have loved this too.
Samee, maybe the pandemic has totally messed up with me, but I don't care. I just wanna go out all dressed up and meet all these people
Oh, I definitely agree! I do Gilbert and Sullivan dramatics as a hobby, and if I could I would do it all the time, never mind a 'career' (which to my mind is just a fancy way of saying 'earn enough at your job so you can afford the commute!' 😂) Yes, it takes effort to get all dressed up and learn the 'lines' and deal with all the other 'actors' and the complicated dance steps, but at the end of the day it's FUN!
Very interested in a video on the decline of the marriage season!
Love your channel you are so sweet and informative! I’m definitely subscribing 🥰
Aaah yes, riding and walking - the beneficial exercises that hopefully give you enough leg muscle to do all the fancy court curtsies...
you are a great story teller! 😘
I just _love_ videos like this, because they just inspire me to read _even MORE_ Regency AU fanfiction!! :3. Subscribed for sure!!! :3!!
Yes, I love Regency AU fanfictions of my OTPs! 😫✋
Excellent! Thanks a lot. You made me a fan of yours.
I have been enjoying your videos this week.
I'm not a big Jane Austen fan, but I'm now interested to go read and reread some of her books with this new background info you explained. Thank you for sharing it all.
Your comments at the end about a debutante being on the shelf reminded me of the panic endured by the receding chances at a match by character Georgiana Longstaffe in The Way We Live Now by Anthony Trollope!
I love your videos! I was actually wondering what sort of events a season had outside of balls and picnics and the opera! This is exactly what I needed! I do have a few questions:
1. Are At Home parties the same as tea parties?
2. What did people do during a reception if they weren’t dancing?
Another question I forgot to ask before: I’ve heard the term “dinner parties”. Was this the same as a dinner or did it have some differences?
I cannot speak for at home parties, but at receptions you would ( in Ellie Dashwoods words) be social networking, talking to other debutantes, to other people in high society, to potential husbands, mothers of eligible men, your friends and other people you would meet. You would not be able to talk to a person unless introduced formerly by the hostess or your mother/ sponsor, therefore you would talk to the person you were just introduced to or talking to your own group with which you came with. Hope that helps with one of your questions :)
Some of this leads me to wonder about Jane Bennett in P&P. She was beautiful, refined, and goes about a year between the Mr. Bingley interactions yet does not meet up with another suitor in all that time. This even with spending a few months in London with the Gardiners, her aunt and uncle, who presumably have engagements she would have participated in. While they were not upper class/rich, it seems they had enough to have Jane be involved in some of ‘the season’ activities and so I found it unrealistic to have her languish for nearly a year (in the story) without progressing socially as to the marriage state or possible suitors. Those are my thoughts - thanks for the video!
That is an excellent point.
I've thought about that too. I guess I assumed that she was shy and did not put herself out there enough. Beauty was a plus but all by itself did not do as much for you as money/fashion/a good dowry?
The Gardiners were not of the aristocracy or even landed gentry. They would not have received invites for the season. They might have had a limited social circle among their social equivalents but this would have had nothing to do with the season per se. They could promenade in the park or buy tickets to the opera but they would have no introductions and without introductions people would not talk to them or give them entree to other events. The Gardiners weren't even on the fringes of society.
The Gardiners are from trade, but they are described as being very well educated and refined, and they know how to behave at Pemberley, so Jane could participate to some of these events. There are a few mentions of her going to the theatre and enjoying herself in London (after the 2 weeks where she stays at home every morning waiting for Miss Bingley’s visit), but my theory is that she is just sad. Lizzie is quite worried when she reads her letters, and I think that having been (quite suddenly and rudely) rejected by Bingley while she was in love does not give her much energy and motivation to go socializing so often. And we know that she can be a bit shy. So being outside of your usual circle, with little friends around you, when you are shy and have just been broken up with - not the best mindset to meet someone new. (Lizzie also mentions to Darcy that separating Jane and Bingley was bad for her because she could be made fun of for being played by Bingley - so another reason may be that people in London know that she has just been rejected, not the best recommendation!)
because Jane wanted to marry for love too. she had confidence in herself that she didnt have to settle.
I have been binging your videos all day…the only thing that brighten up my Monday. Hands down the most interesting youtube channel! Hugs from Hong Kong :)
Hi. I’ve recently subscribed to your channel and I love it and I was wondering if you’d covered the topic of travel in the regency and Victorian eras? How people travelled from place to place and what the different styles of carriages that they could afford depending on their class of course?
Great suggestion! I'm definitely writing that down!
Execellent video some of these things can even be applied today with some adaptions eg driving in the park to cycling/jogging
It's so true. It's amazing how much of history is just like today but in different forms.
Or Going to sky in Aspen for the richest!!!
I have a friend in England who did talk about cotillion season, starting up around May and going through the Summer.
That sounds so interesting! I wonder how much in common it has with the season. 🧐
As an introvert this all sounds like my personal hell except for the fashion part
The fashion and the picnic food are the season's redeeming qualities. 😂
This was so fun and enjoyable to watch, thank you! I'd love to experience a season once, though I wouldn't want to live like this.
I've always wanted to know more of the ins and outs of "the season", and other things I could only piece together and guess about in British social history. One thing that always confused me, was how late these balls began in the pre-electricity age. Just traveling in the dark from one place to another would seem like a big deal, yet they seemed to do it. There also was some thing about the tilt of the Earth in summer in England and Scotland where I'd read remarks like, "It never gets dark here". I'd like to understand more about it.
Yeah the UK is at a high latitude. It doesn't start getting dark until about 8 or 9pm, and in June around the equinox, it may not get properly dark at all. Plus, there were lanterns and a lot of the major streets were even lit by gas lamps by that point.
I just discovered your channel and love it! You answer so many questions I have in my head when reading, watching, or studying period drama or history. I am so curious about society in America, Ireland, NZ, Australia, ect… if they have any different customs. It seems that the continent had similar societal customs as England but curious about the differences. Did the whole of the UK also do their seasons in London? Did they combine London with Dublin, Glasgow, Cardiff, ect??
I know races in Australia were definitely society events, & people got their outfits written up in the papers - I don't know if there was an official 'season', as it were - but there were definitely many of the same social events; Sydney & Melbourne were quite developed by the time of Federation- & Brisbane was also well on its' way (all that gold rush money, & beef, wool, cotton, & sugar money, don't you know); they had theatres & _the_ elite were known as 'the Government House set'.
Well-to-do families had their own boxes at the theatre & opera, & their family pews at church - I have been meaning to do more research into my country's social expectations, for the background of a novel I was working on (actually, there were two- one being set much earlier, when things in colonial society might have been different).
I can totally get behind a revival to say “wear 1899-fashion and go to sporting events hand have an awsome picnic” it sounds great. 😉👍🏻
Dancing at Balls wasn't much fun to many people in too little space, and I thought the Mosh pit wasn't invented until the 1980's!!!
Well that sounds like my own personal nightmare, lol. What I'm curious about is how people in more humble circumstances found spouses, maybe a future video on that?
I think that rather poor people were socialising too, at local dances, at the market, running day-to-day errands, at church masses... Unless you were living alone in the woods you definitely got to meet people and find someone who would like you.
This video is amazing! I absolutely love it!
Aw! Thank you!!!
Good video because of your good attitude:)
Such an informative video, thank you! 😊 Has helped my research.
Fantastic video, though my only suggestion is perhaps placing the camera on a surface that doesn't cause it to bump and jump every time you move. 😊
First time visiting your channel, I'm definitely subscribing ❤
Nice to know that historical novels I have read have been accurate.
(Extra appreciation for Amanda Quick!)
I am exhausted just hearing about the season. 😁 I don’t know if I could have survived it.
I’d rather be a part of a season than just marrying a cousin because you had to keep the money in the family.
A fair number of girls who were unsuccessful in finding a husband after doing a couple of seasons would take a passage to India to try to catch a colonial official or officer in the Indian Army who had reached the age where if they wanted to progress further in their career they had to marry. (Lieutenants can't marry, Captains shouldn't marry, Majors may marry and Colonels must marry) This yearly migration of women was known, unkindly as the fishing fleet.
An "at home"... I remember my mother (1914-1987) having one in 1986, explaining what it was to her invited guests.
Also thinking that the 50 mile distance would be about two days travel with one's own horses, possibly less by "Post" as the horses would be either baited or changed every five to ten miles and there was a schedule to keep. Somehow I doubt our debutante and family traveled by Post - just not prestigious enough (though Elizabeth Bennett and Maria Lucas returned from Rosings part way by Post)
Anyone else make the connections between the races and the American trend of meeting your high school sweetheart at a football game? Also the picnics remind me of tailgating. The more things change the more they stay the same I guess.
The little jiggle the camera does every few seconds was super distracting and made it hard to watch without getting motion sickness, BUT I really enjoyed listening! Keep up the good work!
I really really really really liked this video. I’m in a Victorian and history group on Facebook I’m gonna share it there. You know how bbc’s Lucy Worsley I think her name is does a documentary step by step wouldnt it be great if there was a reenactment of what you just explained? Great video thanks!!!
Aw! Thanks so much! I’m so glad you liked it! 😃😃😃 And that would be so cool to see this re-enacted! Someone at the BBC needs to get on top of this. 😃😂
Cinderella's ball is making all kinds of sense now. And Eliza Doolittle's Ascot disaster. And Henley collar shirts.
You got the date of the season wrong!
The season was from around October to the end of June - which coincided with the state opening of Parliament at the beginning of November and the end of that year's session when Parliament recessed in June.
They went back to their country estates in summer - not winter.