I think that your ideas are great. I really want Paradox to expand outside of Europe because while not many people play there I think that it's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy that no one will play there. They don't have flavor, so no one plays there, no one plays there, so they wont add flavor. But I think that steppe hordes could be/should be really cool. For instance, you brought up the idea of nomads constantly wandering around in their territory and that made me wonder if there could be anyway to represent that. I figured that if you make it so that the nomads don't have a capital on the map, that would make the game play pretty different. Also make battles more decisive for the steppe people because if you destroy their horde in a battle, they're done because they don't have anywhere to retreat to. So you wouldn't be able to siege a hordes capital, but one good battle is enough to break them.
Same with india. People love ot bring up "but it's boring", "it was boring in ck2 too" but that's a circular logic. Flavor should be added everywhere. Right now the only reasons to play east of persia-byzantium-russia line is to do one of like 2 indian decisions or become the great khan. Israeli religion alone has more content related to it, and it isnt even very alive at any of the starts!
This is completely wild, but maybe when you beat a steppe horde in battle they could do the stellaris thing when a fleet is beaten. I mean they would be off the map until they regroup with less men. And the idea of not having a capital would be interesting as well. Alternatively maybe the capital could move somehow or they could remove the restrictions for moving it... idk cool to imagine what could be.
When I first played landless, one of my first thoughts was if the camp mechanic could be used for nomads. You could move your capital as a camp in your land or even in your enemies occupied land during a war.
I am old enough to know that history repeats itself. And indeed, I saw this before they brought out Horse Lords for CK2 and then people, after a while, it must be said, didn't really like what they had done. Your comment of ‘They don't have flavor, so no one plays there, no one plays there, so they wont add flavor,’ is completely disproved by the experience I already saw in Crusader Kings 2
A fundemental issue with the game is that the steppe will always convert and feudalize because tribal is objectively worst than feudal in the game. Of course this never happened in real life and steppe nomads were a threat until the 17th century. This largely comes down to a lack of migration CB for the nomads and their inability to get technology past tribal era. Ideally a steppe expansion would integrate well with RTP mechanics, using a modified version of the landless adventurer camp and migration mechanics. A steppe expansion would pair well with a China or Silk road expansion.
I agree. Expanding on the silk road idea, they could bring the silk road expansion alongside a trade overhaul that we all seem to want to bad. Maybe they could even make hashishaya available to anyone who can trade for weed, but that's probably just the addict in me wanting weed in everything...
Funny how in real life tribal Mongols got gunpowder earlier than feudal Europe did. Through "Exposure" from Chinese culture. Same might go for trebushets considering they were also invented in China
@@benismann if you play a game to 1300 regardless of start date I am willing to bet that the entire steppe will be both converted and feudal/clan. Every test I have done demonstrates this, not to mention all the Timelapses you can watch on TH-cam
As far as I understand it they got smoked multiple times by multiple nomadic peoples. I feel like even if they did counter horse archers the low number of them would sort of equalise things as opposed to making them better than horse archer armies. Idk if it would be accurate though, bc the only units to really counter horse archer before gunpowder are mamluks right? And even after gunpowder became popular horse archers stuck around for a bit. Sorry for yapping but interesting subject
Horse archers should recieve massive penalties if you're feudal. And perhaps scale a bit with ages, so tribal steppe stays competitive with feudal and clan rulers who have much better bonuses from buildings. But also it's just kinda boring after you built up your domain as a steppe lord, so idk. The region needs a lot of love.
To be honest, i rarely play on Europe, it is so boring having to justify claims, conquest casus-belli is like a drug, once you got it, you never want to go back wasting cash to get the claim. Beside, steppe horse lords deserve an migration casus bell, it is kinda sad that norse got it, and accepting contracts as an horse lord.
They did kind of do some unique stuff with Persia. You can sponsor a conquest. I’m the same I’m the biggest Europe hater, but recently I’ve been playing Norman adventures and invading random non-Christian nations.
I played in Mordvinia once and I felt like some fantasy dream kingdom if that makes sense. Like they would read about me in stories, but deny I actually exist.
@@xjuncewski So you just became a high culture, they way i did it myself. And it was fun. I made it an enclave for the Pagans because the whole of europe was christian until 1000.
100000% cumania is my favourite nation to play but the base tribal gameplay is boring af, i don’t even want it to be like ck2 but they should just make it better.
I think that your ideas are great. I really want Paradox to expand outside of Europe because while not many people play there I think that it's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy that no one will play there. They don't have flavor, so no one plays there, no one plays there, so they wont add flavor. But I think that steppe hordes could be/should be really cool. For instance, you brought up the idea of nomads constantly wandering around in their territory and that made me wonder if there could be anyway to represent that. I figured that if you make it so that the nomads don't have a capital on the map, that would make the game play pretty different. Also make battles more decisive for the steppe people because if you destroy their horde in a battle, they're done because they don't have anywhere to retreat to. So you wouldn't be able to siege a hordes capital, but one good battle is enough to break them.
Same with india. People love ot bring up "but it's boring", "it was boring in ck2 too" but that's a circular logic. Flavor should be added everywhere. Right now the only reasons to play east of persia-byzantium-russia line is to do one of like 2 indian decisions or become the great khan. Israeli religion alone has more content related to it, and it isnt even very alive at any of the starts!
This is completely wild, but maybe when you beat a steppe horde in battle they could do the stellaris thing when a fleet is beaten. I mean they would be off the map until they regroup with less men.
And the idea of not having a capital would be interesting as well. Alternatively maybe the capital could move somehow or they could remove the restrictions for moving it... idk cool to imagine what could be.
@@xjuncewski Would be pretty sick if the realm capital was just wherever the ruler was.
When I first played landless, one of my first thoughts was if the camp mechanic could be used for nomads. You could move your capital as a camp in your land or even in your enemies occupied land during a war.
I am old enough to know that history repeats itself. And indeed, I saw this before they brought out Horse Lords for CK2 and then people, after a while, it must be said, didn't really like what they had done. Your comment of ‘They don't have flavor, so no one plays there, no one plays there, so they wont add flavor,’ is completely disproved by the experience I already saw in Crusader Kings 2
I hope this is part of paradox’s plan for 2025. A nomad update would add much needed flavor to areas outside of Europe.
Bro it’s 3 am go to sleep
Steppe+trade+councils and you have a game for the ages.
What are you doing Steppe Nomad
riding horse :)
@@jaredkrol3739 bro it took me 7 hours to get the joke
You have a pure mind 😇
Took me 5 secondes 👀
horse lorrdsz im craving horse lordz need throat singing
Don't worry, they'll make you pay 30$ for the same DLC you already bought for CKII years ago.
A fundemental issue with the game is that the steppe will always convert and feudalize because tribal is objectively worst than feudal in the game. Of course this never happened in real life and steppe nomads were a threat until the 17th century. This largely comes down to a lack of migration CB for the nomads and their inability to get technology past tribal era.
Ideally a steppe expansion would integrate well with RTP mechanics, using a modified version of the landless adventurer camp and migration mechanics. A steppe expansion would pair well with a China or Silk road expansion.
I agree. Expanding on the silk road idea, they could bring the silk road expansion alongside a trade overhaul that we all seem to want to bad. Maybe they could even make hashishaya available to anyone who can trade for weed, but that's probably just the addict in me wanting weed in everything...
Many of them did convert to Islam or Buddhism, but Chalcedonian Christianity was nonexistent.
Funny how in real life tribal Mongols got gunpowder earlier than feudal Europe did. Through "Exposure" from Chinese culture. Same might go for trebushets considering they were also invented in China
tribal is objectively stronger in the first age. Maybe even in the second if you have that mogyer tradition that buffs tribal holds
@@benismann if you play a game to 1300 regardless of start date I am willing to bet that the entire steppe will be both converted and feudal/clan. Every test I have done demonstrates this, not to mention all the Timelapses you can watch on TH-cam
Except, they did! Horse mounted stepped people were actual able to sweep through Europe, sprouting several new cultures and ways of life along the way
No need to rework, just plug the horse lords DLC from CK II in
7:00 Frontier Warriors being beaten by Archer Cavalry is historical. Look up what happened to Khwarezm sometime.
As far as I understand it they got smoked multiple times by multiple nomadic peoples. I feel like even if they did counter horse archers the low number of them would sort of equalise things as opposed to making them better than horse archer armies.
Idk if it would be accurate though, bc the only units to really counter horse archer before gunpowder are mamluks right? And even after gunpowder became popular horse archers stuck around for a bit.
Sorry for yapping but interesting subject
Horse archers should recieve massive penalties if you're feudal. And perhaps scale a bit with ages, so tribal steppe stays competitive with feudal and clan rulers who have much better bonuses from buildings.
But also it's just kinda boring after you built up your domain as a steppe lord, so idk. The region needs a lot of love.
For me that's when I migrate. I quickly spam out a legend and invade some poor feudal sap miles away.
They said somewhere that one day they would give nomads their own govt type thatll come with a DLC
Great video I totally agree and I like your chill style homie
We desperately need flavor Steppe Bros
I hope your hand is good
CKII, of course, stays winning.
i pray everyday on its downfall
@@xjuncewski are nomads in ck2 fun?
agreed.
To be honest, i rarely play on Europe, it is so boring having to justify claims, conquest casus-belli is like a drug, once you got it, you never want to go back wasting cash to get the claim.
Beside, steppe horse lords deserve an migration casus bell, it is kinda sad that norse got it, and accepting contracts as an horse lord.
They did kind of do some unique stuff with Persia. You can sponsor a conquest.
I’m the same I’m the biggest Europe hater, but recently I’ve been playing Norman adventures and invading random non-Christian nations.
Playing in Mordvinia is kinda fun when you get it to feudal but going further into the steppes is just not worth it.
I played in Mordvinia once and I felt like some fantasy dream kingdom if that makes sense. Like they would read about me in stories, but deny I actually exist.
@@xjuncewski So you just became a high culture, they way i did it myself. And it was fun. I made it an enclave for the Pagans because the whole of europe was christian until 1000.
Some people want Steppe update, but don’t care for Africa. Some people the other way around. Most just don’t care. 😢
Stop😭😭 don’t remind me
100000% cumania is my favourite nation to play but the base tribal gameplay is boring af, i don’t even want it to be like ck2 but they should just make it better.
Nah ur wrong, steep is perfect as it is, all paradox needs to do is add a flavour pack or outfit pack. Nothing else
you rue the day..
Nope.