Ouch. I've helped do a few ICF homes, foundations and basements. Everything needs to be layed out perfectly before you pour. Walls square and level, spray foam to attach to the footings and lock the bottom in place. Brace all the walls, we add extra plywood bracing on lower parts of all the corners to help mitigate blowouts. Cheap insurance against what is otherwise a mess. Screw measuring twice, you better have checked and rechecked things a few times prepping for pour day, and then right after the pour do a final check before things set to fine tune anything that shifted a little. Can't half-ass ICF and have it turn out well.
Framed houses for 25 years. Seen all kinds of out of square foundations (and framing). I would say the person who layed out those walls marked one wall on the wrong side of the line. Double check every dimension. It takes more time, but it could save you a lot of headaches. Make sure your helper is holding the dummy end on the right mark. To double check myself, I would go back the other direction and check my marks. That foundation would be so easy to check for square before you start forming/stacking. Of course I have also seen foundation walls so out of plumb that I really had to fudge the lines to get things to work.
Unsupervised, unskilled, careless, negligent, irresponsible jerks. I've learned fast over the years and dealt with this kind of B.S. The person that commented about checking everything is absolutely right. I guess the person that did this measured once, got into his truck and went to the next job so they can screw that up too.
I was on a job where the blocklayers started at opposite ends of the wall. Unfortunately each started on opposite sides of the chalk line! Real brain surgeons, that crew.
@@tomrogers9467 I had a job where the blocklayers installed three rows of a 50 ft wall with two inches of the perfectly squared slab foundation showing on the outside. I asked them why they put the blocks there and they said the prints showed the dimension 2 inches less. So you don't ask what up? They admitted they should have and started over.
Typically, when you lay out your walls, they should be centered on the footing. In residential work, that is about 4"- 8"- 4" on a 16" footing. To stray 8" from parallel, I would bet that the error was in the batter boards( if these guys even used any!) Certainly , the footings were equally bad, or the mistake would have been apparent at the inital layout of the walls. People have managed to get this right for thousands of years. Shows a lack of experience. The framer , in setting his sills, demonstrated how bad the situation really was. Now, everyone has to work harder for a mediocre result. Backfilling unbraced walls ( or without a floor system)is a big no-no. Then , you drive a concrete truck up close?! The foam on the ICF's is probably hiding some serious cracks. The interior piers should have been poured monolithically, below grade....no forms.....or formed at floor level and poured seperately....... no wire , no rebar or anchor bolts in the piers....nice job on the floor gentlemen.... first thing done right.
Thanks and I agree this was a mess. I noticed the walls did not land on the footers correctly so I think the footer may have been correct but who knows. Lol 😂
Hey Bondo! Just have to say thanks for the tip on stacking a course or two and then pouring the floor. My wife and I are building our own ICF home and that tip was a game changer for the guys I hired to finish the slab. Also a lot of respect for people pouring these walls.. I just ran the hose on our 13' tall wall pour last week while my wife ran the pencil and my 75 year old dad slapped the walls to let me know when to move on.. Because of people like you on YT, we have been able to do it all ourselves (minus slab finishing) with great results. So thanks again!
Chris these kind of comments are what keeps me going doing the videos. It warms my heart that I am able to help out people here and they can save money and build there own home. Awesome job doing it with your wife and family. I wish I could travel around the country and help people like you. Keep up the good work my friend.
It'd be interesting to see the house sitting on that foundation with the sides sticking out of a finished home. It was insane not to check the forms prior to the pour.
Bondo…. Surprisingly satisfying to watch you and your team working together. I’m planning a 30 x30 attached garage addition with finished floor above. Planning on ICF for foundation with radiant heated slab. I’m watching as many of your vids I can find to get ready for this fall’s construction. Wish you guys were closer ( northern Vt) Thanks for all the great videos and pointers!
Diagonals can match perfectly, and the walls can still be out of square. There are two steps to squaring a rectangle. 1.The opposing walls must be exactly the same length. 2. Then, if the diagonals match, It's square.
I volunteer at a free trade school.. they were teaching how to square a foundation and had a presentation slide showing only that diagonals needed to be equal.. I tried nicely correcting the instructor (afterwards, not real-time) mentioning that you also need to make opposite sides are of equal length. He didn't think that was important to mention.. I disagree - its critical.
Yes, this works, but i find it can be hard to get it perfectly, exactly square on big squares. If you measure the parallels and then the diagonals, you know it's perfect to the 1/4 inch. cheers.@@denverscott37
A2 +B2=C2 on any 90 degree triangle is the Pythagorean theorem, that way you can use with any dimensions and get the accurate corner to corner instead of just multiples of 345. That way you can save a few steps back and forth on the diagonal measuring. Then check the other one if ya need to but if your sides measure the same it should be good.
I’m a floor guy and it’s pretty cool to see the process before every trade comes in and beats it up before have to come clean it and install the finished product
Awesome but the poor floor guy. Last one in and the project is over budget and the excitement of building is long gone. I'd rather be the concrete guy. Lol 😂 Thanks bud
@bondobuilt386 One snappy answer: Because you keep uploading them. I'm glad that you do. Squaring a room isn't hard, just have to be thorough until you are happy with it. Get it wrong and everyone who works on the site is going to hate you.
My parents foundation was poured 3 inches out of square and and 5 1/2" out of level. We had to build a pony wall ontop of the foundation to square up and level the building from there.
I cannot imagine building, especially a simple rectangle, dimensioned 8" off. We have built with ICFs for 17 years and produce walls as plumb, straight and square as any. The dimensions are the easy part.
I really enjoy watching your channel on You Tube, you do some great concrete projects and I can see that you are not a slacker but one of your guys I notice is often standing around twiddling his thumbs so to speak when his work buddy is the complete opposite. You must have some great relationship to let him get away with being so slack, I know that I wouldn’t but then again I’m a hard bastard! Keep up the amazing work 😊
Agreed. I’m pretty new to ICF as a contractor, and I’ve realized real fast the biggest disservice the manufacturers do to them selves is spend time convincing everyone it’s faster to try and compete with the toothless framers. Instead they should just focus on the fact that you are building a robust envelope instead of a house where guys can’t even be bothered to nail stuff off properly.
We always pour out ICF walls "backwards." We pour the footers, then we do the underground and form for the interior slab. We pour the slab with full access around the entire perimeter. Then, we install the wall blocks using the slab as the layout guide because it's already 100% square. Take the slab forms and reinstall on the outside of the icf blocks and the bottom has no danger of blowing out. Makes the entire process easier for every step.
As a concete engineer you did not support the top good enough, the pressure from the earth and the concrete made to mutch force in the top when you pour your concrete.
We do basements not with icf but still the same principle it's right or it's wrong. We do alot of very big customs that people expect to be correct. We have a great system to make sure measurements and square are correct. First plans are manually put into our total station. This will tell us if the plans are incorrect, happens way more than you would think. Then we do a form list off those plans which are painted on the footings. Finally when we get to the end of the wall we measure to make sure we have the right fillers. Really there is no excuse for the wrong measurements and out of square should be minimal. Nice job on showing the problems and even better on the floor. Stay safe and have a great day.
Thanks for the feedback. That sounds like you guys do professional work and stand by what you do. That's all anyone can ask for these days. Keep up doing good work and you will always be busier than you need to be. 👍
@@bondobuilt386 thank you. We use to do flatwork as well but got to where we couldn't keep up with walls. Definitely not trying to advertise but look on my channel and you can see some of the basements we do. I'm not trying for subscribers but like to show friends some of the things we do. Several are quite interesting. I love to check out what others do as well to see the good and sometimes the bad work they do. Learned a few things watching what others do. Even an old dog can learn new tricks lol. Good luck and I look forward to some later videos.
@@mikeboschert4905 yeah we do basements for high-end homes. Some have had 40 corners just in te basement not including the short walls. Turned on all kinds of different angles. Once put into the instrument layout takes minimal time and we know its right. It has paid for itself many times over.
Measure twice, build once. This house will be screwed from the floor, to the roof, drywall, framers, cabinet guys, trim guys , probably plumber even. Electrician will just laugh to the bank.
They were going to frame everything out square so that's why the plate hung over the foundation so bad. Then a porch all the way around front and both sides.
Equal diagonals does NOT guarantee it is square. The diagonals check only works if you are certain the opposite sides are equal in length. Otherwise you can have a trapezoid which can have equal diagonals but the corners are not 90 degrees. The only way to check is to first measure the opposite sides and make sure they are equal. Only then you can measure the diagonals to ensure squareness. You can get away with this in woodworking because you cut the opposite sides the same length. But in this case you must measure them.
When i was setting out for block work or steel work for farm buildings i always measured the sides at least two or three times before doing the diagonals. For just this very reason.
We always put number 4 rebar on two foot centers. I noticed that you didn’t put anything in for reinforcement. I never much cared for fiber mesh either.
So how often do you see the basement completely backfilled without a floor system in place. I’d worry about the wall pushing in. Also, on a simple rectangle, it would be hard to make these walls uneven since the block count and sizes are the same side to side. They actually had to work to screw this up, lol! Good job on the floor though!
Saw it more often than not. Safety is number one. Trying to lay a floor around an open hole is not productive and dangerous. And honestly, I've seen walls pushed in by excavators after the floor was framed.
They couldn't build the floor till the slab was poured because they chose to do monolithic piers down the center. And a floor deck above would make the basement a dark cave. The best solution is to pour the slab first, and refrain from backfilling till the floor is constructed. On my last two basements the engineers wanted the slab poured before the foundation walls were backfilled even though they were designed as retaining walls. They didn't want the footings or walls to creep inward toward the hole by to force of the dirt. The footings were six feet wide(!) but oh well, you do as you're told.
Wow! And there's me worrying about being off my plan measurement by just under 1/2" at the top of the first lift over a 40 foot length. I'll probably win some of that back when I plum the walls as we don't have concrete in yet. Great work on the floor though.
Ive seen this once before. One ft out of square on the end of a rectangle foundation. The framer built the house longer. Cantilevered 6” and 18”. I guess nobody is perfect but this is something that should be checked multiple times
another nice job you have a great team way better then the guys I have we cant find qualified people that will show up for work, I do have a few core guys I would be lost with out
Nice work and it’s good to read everyone’s comments. I live in the north shore of Chicago high end neck-of-the-woods and you would be hard pressed to finds guys with all these comments and suggestions/knowledge. The people doing concrete work around here don’t speak English and the ones that do landed at O’hare from Poland and were given directions to the job site when they landed. Terrible workmanship.
In the early 80s I worked on a 7 story building in Brisbane hospital. It was 7 inches out of square . So they added 1 inch to the column in the corner each level to bring it back to square. Good thing I wasn't an impressionable young apprentice... 🤣😂😁😀😎
8"? Thats crazy. I just built a log home and hired a concrete guy to form and pour the foundation after we excavated. My foundation was literally less then 1/2" out of square. It was as near perfect as I could've imaged.
We are also planning on building a log cabin on a concrete foundation. Did you get any pushback from people about using poured concrete foundation? We live in the Texas and termites are a thing
@@susanconklin4945 I'm in MA and we did a full basement concrete foundation with a stem wall. Are you talking about a slab or a full foundation? If termites are a thing.. I would think you'll wanna at least go with a concrete stem wall? If you look at my youtube channel, you can check out a few videos of the build from start to finish.
I am curious as to why the wire mesh wasn't installed prior to the pour of the flooring? I mean it would add strength to the concrete or not really needed in this case?
I notice they didn’t counter sink the anchor bolts on the 2x 12 the mason was a couple inches off square or the footing was poured a couple inches off which threw of the block work
are you able to mount plate board over the foam in ICF??? I see plate is flush with the edge of the wall that means it must be over the foam and not over the concrete..
48 years experience forming walls here - I always checked on my Construction Master Pro calculator what the diagonals should be - catches any mistakes like this one right away. - Al the concrete guy
Bla, bla, all these pros, shut your pie holes, a good carpenter can make it happen,,,35 years in this lovely sport,… 5 years left, don’t think I’ll miss it, was a hard life but would not change ,unless I knew before hand, not, was a good run,…
Yeah thats why I never did concrete. I could always fix a framing mistake or a drywall mistake but concrete ? " A man has got to know his limitations...."
I know it's not related to the video, but have you made or anybody else on here ever seen any good homemade icf braces for basement walls, or what do you like to use. I'm having a big of trouble finding a place to rent braces. Thank ya kindly Josh
Hi, nice video. Can you explain what the use is of the 3 boxes that were made in the floor (see 1:44)? Whats the use of that? In this case no rebar, why not?
The footers for the walls should be poured with the bottom floor and the rebar (I heard the part about using fiber in mix - Helix is better than fiber and could replace much of the rebar) so that the rebar for the walls is integrated with the footers and floor. Probably should have used SCC. Basically if the house gets any earth movement, it might be in trouble, hopefully it’s Michigan or some place that doesn’t have real earthquakes.
my house was built in 1920 and they did the same thing. I can tell from the foundation block work that the crew was amateur at best. from one corner of the house to the next corner, the sill plate starts flush with the outside and by the other end it's a good 2 inches overhung. And so is the wall and the studs. They tried to hide it by building the stucco out but it's still way overhung even with that. I never even notice this until I started replacing the sill. What an unwanted surprise. hardly the first one with this place either.
Imagine no conveyors or pump trucks? We did it that way for decades. Used to be 1 pump truck in the whole state booked for months in advance. Now there is 6 pumps and a dozen conveyors trucks.
That's the problem with measuring diagonals. If you don't use A squared + B squared= C squared you are only making sure two corners have the same number. The Pythagorean theorem will tell you what that corner number has to be!
You should snap a grade line with chalk on the wall. Using the laser makes sense for the center screed line but not the wall line. Give it a try, it really saves time on the laydown. My method is to spend the time prepping for the pour and getting it out and flat as fast as possible
@@igroku2483 It wasn't square they needed to double check, it was overall wall length. You can have diagonals match, and remain out of square, if two walls are incorrect lengths.
What was the point of those three deeper squares on the floor? Edit: Wait, those are for pillar supports for the main floor, so less chance of cracking, right?
@@bondobuilt386 how many cub of concrete going into it and what slump are you having it at considering its a basement are you doing proper concrete or you using cemfloor
I have to say that when I was doing concrete work, I didn't have an ounce of fat on me. These guys are huge. Work them for a month doing concrete work. They will be buff!
so they filled the sump pump openings that were formed with concrete. that seems a bit odd. wouldn't you want to keep that area open to place the sump pump?
Compare bottom diagonals to the top.. bet my hat they back filled the outside before the cement in walls were cured (a month) , and made it a polygon when ground settled before concrete. We had to re excavate & push out a 3" bow on a 80' wall, back within ¾" .. with my car jack, every glue lam & 6x6 leveraged off opposite wall. All Because the heavy equipment operator pushed sand to the wall, instead of winging it alongside. Seen it a few times now & it always gets blamed on the builders.. but 8" out, is nuts! Also watched the cement crew kick a corner a few inches to get the truck in closer 😅
Wow, thats kinda messed up… how hard is it to measure the length of the sides and the diagonals. this all gets worked out when you position the footings and finalized with the first course…
I once had a boss that made me dig up a pool wall and move it A QUARTER INCH in order to be perfectly square. I don't know how many rebar pins were in it, but the whole wall of the pool was squared and pinned and ready for the concrete footing when he decided I needed to move it A QUARTER INCH toward the house.
ICFs are super attractive to novice builders who don't have enough experience to avert disasters like this. "What could be easier to build than giant foam blocks?" I realized that identical diagonal measurements are actually deceptive if all the other distances are not perfect. It totally makes sense, but sometimes we trust the diagonal as the gold standard, and forget it's only as good as the distances it is based on. "Oh well, the tapers will be able to make it look okay."
Ya sucks just a couple double checks on measurements and it would have been perfect. Save a lot of messing around. The framers will actually be the ones fixing it. That's why the sill plate looked so weird.
Had a block layer one time who put up full basement that not only was 2.5 inches out square but was also 2 inches low in one corner.lol. The main contracter was also framer and extremely pissed.
Omg, the Virgoan perfectionist in me would have flipped out. For as long as I owned the place, I'd never get over it. I'm seriously bothered by it for this owner's sake, and I don't even know him! When I go to build my next place, I'm going to be walking behind the contractors and inspectors, checking everything. As the saying goes, check twice, build once.
607?! That's my area code. I'll have to be sure to never use those clowns. I can't believe they were stupid enough to put their name on the wall of that horrific error.
Did they really put their sign on that foundation? That company is out by me- 4.3 stars on Google. I might end up building with ICF in the near future- Glad they put their sign up, so I know who NOT to call!!!!!
foundation is a trapezoid; diagonal will always be the same. need to check all wall dimensions. once you pour it in concrete it's not easy to fix without a bulldozer. I've seen sills hang off the foundation worse than that, always amazed me why they did it.
You guys obviously know what you're doing. My son tried pouring a 20 x 30 slab and the mud got away from him and set up rough on top before he could smooth it out. Can this be fixed, or does it need to be jack-hammered out and start over? Thank for any advice that will help
There are concrete polishers/grinders (usually walk-behind units you move around) that should be able to smooth it out. Or at worst, leave it as and do a skim coat of concrete or that epoxy stuff that's meant for levelling or smoothing rough surfacing. The first two are cheaper, that epoxy can get expensive.
wouldn't it have been easier to do the foundation & slab prior to doing the ICF? Any reason why ppl put up the ICF first and then the slab? I also assume if the slab was done first they could have had better anchor points for the support to eliminate the out of square bow?
The reason why the walls were out of square is that there wasn’t an Italian mechanic on scene. You can’t expect a bunch of workers who were living in dirt floored houses a few years ago to lay out square foundations.
Ouch. I've helped do a few ICF homes, foundations and basements.
Everything needs to be layed out perfectly before you pour.
Walls square and level, spray foam to attach to the footings and lock the bottom in place. Brace all the walls, we add extra plywood bracing on lower parts of all the corners to help mitigate blowouts. Cheap insurance against what is otherwise a mess.
Screw measuring twice, you better have checked and rechecked things a few times prepping for pour day, and then right after the pour do a final check before things set to fine tune anything that shifted a little.
Can't half-ass ICF and have it turn out well.
Teamwork makes the dreamwork, as the saying goes. It's really nice to watch you guys work together, thanks for posting.
Framed houses for 25 years. Seen all kinds of out of square foundations (and framing). I would say the person who layed out those walls marked one wall on the wrong side of the line. Double check every dimension. It takes more time, but it could save you a lot of headaches. Make sure your helper is holding the dummy end on the right mark. To double check myself, I would go back the other direction and check my marks. That foundation would be so easy to check for square before you start forming/stacking. Of course I have also seen foundation walls so out of plumb that I really had to fudge the lines to get things to work.
I agree we always check everything over and over before the pour.
Unsupervised, unskilled, careless, negligent, irresponsible jerks. I've learned fast over the years and dealt with this kind of B.S. The person that commented about checking everything is absolutely right. I guess the person that did this measured once, got into his truck and went to the next job so they can screw that up too.
I was on a job where the blocklayers started at opposite ends of the wall. Unfortunately each started on opposite sides of the chalk line! Real brain surgeons, that crew.
@@tomrogers9467 I had a job where the blocklayers installed three rows of a 50 ft wall with two inches of the perfectly squared slab foundation showing on the outside. I asked them why they put the blocks there and they said the prints showed the dimension 2 inches less. So you don't ask what up? They admitted they should have and started over.
God forbid you suggest that a laborer take 5 minutes to THINK about what they are doing BEFORE they do it and fuck it up.
Typically, when you lay out your walls, they should be centered on the footing. In residential work, that is about 4"- 8"- 4" on a 16" footing. To stray 8" from parallel, I would bet that the error was in the batter boards( if these guys even used any!) Certainly , the footings were equally bad, or the mistake would have been apparent at the inital layout of the walls. People have managed to get this right for thousands of years. Shows a lack of experience. The framer , in setting his sills, demonstrated how bad the situation really was. Now, everyone has to work harder for a mediocre result.
Backfilling unbraced walls ( or without a floor system)is a big no-no. Then , you drive a concrete truck up close?! The foam on the ICF's is probably hiding some serious cracks. The interior piers should have been poured monolithically, below grade....no forms.....or formed at floor level and poured seperately....... no wire , no rebar or anchor bolts in the piers....nice job on the floor gentlemen.... first thing done right.
Thanks and I agree this was a mess. I noticed the walls did not land on the footers correctly so I think the footer may have been correct but who knows. Lol 😂
Hey Bondo! Just have to say thanks for the tip on stacking a course or two and then pouring the floor. My wife and I are building our own ICF home and that tip was a game changer for the guys I hired to finish the slab. Also a lot of respect for people pouring these walls.. I just ran the hose on our 13' tall wall pour last week while my wife ran the pencil and my 75 year old dad slapped the walls to let me know when to move on.. Because of people like you on YT, we have been able to do it all ourselves (minus slab finishing) with great results. So thanks again!
Chris these kind of comments are what keeps me going doing the videos. It warms my heart that I am able to help out people here and they can save money and build there own home. Awesome job doing it with your wife and family. I wish I could travel around the country and help people like you. Keep up the good work my friend.
It'd be interesting to see the house sitting on that foundation with the sides sticking out of a finished home. It was insane not to check the forms prior to the pour.
Thats going to play havoc with the frame all the way up.
Concrete and cowboys. Always has been. Take pride in your work.
I worked in new builds for 20 years and I have never seen anyone pour the basement floor before the rest of the house was built.
Bondo…. Surprisingly satisfying to watch you and your team working together. I’m planning a 30 x30 attached garage addition with finished floor above. Planning on ICF for foundation with radiant heated slab. I’m watching as many of your vids I can find to get ready for this fall’s construction. Wish you guys were closer ( northern Vt) Thanks for all the great videos and pointers!
Diagonals can match perfectly, and the walls can still be out of square. There are two steps to squaring a rectangle. 1.The opposing walls must be exactly the same length. 2. Then, if the diagonals match, It's square.
Yep, a trapezoid can have equal diagonals.
I volunteer at a free trade school.. they were teaching how to square a foundation and had a presentation slide showing only that diagonals needed to be equal.. I tried nicely correcting the instructor (afterwards, not real-time) mentioning that you also need to make opposite sides are of equal length. He didn't think that was important to mention.. I disagree - its critical.
3-4-5...6-8-10....12-16-20....24-32-40...
This is how I square large projects up, it's called the Pythagorean theorem..
Yes, this works, but i find it can be hard to get it perfectly, exactly square on big squares. If you measure the parallels and then the diagonals, you know it's perfect to the 1/4 inch.
cheers.@@denverscott37
A2 +B2=C2 on any 90 degree triangle is the Pythagorean theorem, that way you can use with any dimensions and get the accurate corner to corner instead of just multiples of 345. That way you can save a few steps back and forth on the diagonal measuring. Then check the other one if ya need to but if your sides measure the same it should be good.
If it were my house and I didn’t lay those blocks, they would have been corrected. To pay someone for being 8” off and then let it slide, is crazy.
I think the homeowner was going after the crew that built it.
@@bondobuilt386 do they have to demo it and redo it?
@@nofurtherwest3474 I don't think so they are going to work with it.
@@bondobuilt386 Oh I see. How do they do that - do they just add on some sliver of foundation under that overhang part?
Lot of respect for you guys . That is some hard work. Looks great.
Thanks Jim
O my god that foundation is off!!! That's why I need that estimate from you to build my house in Vernon, for next year. You guys do great work.
Thanks. I wish you were a little closer though. Lol
I’m a floor guy and it’s pretty cool to see the process before every trade comes in and beats it up before have to come clean it and install the finished product
Awesome but the poor floor guy. Last one in and the project is over budget and the excitement of building is long gone. I'd rather be the concrete guy. Lol 😂
Thanks bud
Savage
@@TheUnleashed123 Thanks LOL
Love the vids and your commentary is always awesome and so helpful!
you guys are a great team, ya know what you're doing!
It's out of square because it is a trapezoid with same diagonals.
Yup 👍
3 4 5 never fails!
Why can't I stop watching these videos!
I don't know but Im glad. Lol
@bondobuilt386 One snappy answer: Because you keep uploading them.
I'm glad that you do. Squaring a room isn't hard, just have to be thorough until you are happy with it. Get it wrong and everyone who works on the site is going to hate you.
My parents foundation was poured 3 inches out of square and and 5 1/2" out of level. We had to build a pony wall ontop of the foundation to square up and level the building from there.
I cannot imagine building, especially a simple rectangle, dimensioned 8" off. We have built with ICFs for 17 years and produce walls as plumb, straight and square as any. The dimensions are the easy part.
I agree just need to double check measurements.
One guy put it on the wrong side of line
I really enjoy watching your channel on You Tube, you do some great concrete projects and I can see that you are not a slacker but one of your guys I notice is often standing around twiddling his thumbs so to speak when his work buddy is the complete opposite. You must have some great relationship to let him get away with being so slack, I know that I wouldn’t but then again I’m a hard bastard! Keep up the amazing work 😊
After 25 years and lot of block I am so tired of The sales guys. “It’s like Lego”. Good work that is level and square takes experience.
Agreed. I’m pretty new to ICF as a contractor, and I’ve realized real fast the biggest disservice the manufacturers do to them selves is spend time convincing everyone it’s faster to try and compete with the toothless framers. Instead they should just focus on the fact that you are building a robust envelope instead of a house where guys can’t even be bothered to nail stuff off properly.
@@lakewake2007 what happened to the framers teeth?
Do the toothed framers nail it all off?
So many questions..
amen brother
It's not hard.. you just can't be a moron like whomever built this wall..
I like the time-lapse, you can easily see who is doing the least amount of work.
LOL we were all working that day.
We always pour out ICF walls "backwards." We pour the footers, then we do the underground and form for the interior slab. We pour the slab with full access around the entire perimeter. Then, we install the wall blocks using the slab as the layout guide because it's already 100% square. Take the slab forms and reinstall on the outside of the icf blocks and the bottom has no danger of blowing out. Makes the entire process easier for every step.
As a concete engineer you did not support the top good enough, the pressure from the earth and the concrete made to mutch force in the top when you pour your concrete.
40 foot one end and 40 foot eight on the other, and can we guess 8" thick icf walls? Maybe someone did not measure "out to out"?
We do basements not with icf but still the same principle it's right or it's wrong. We do alot of very big customs that people expect to be correct. We have a great system to make sure measurements and square are correct. First plans are manually put into our total station. This will tell us if the plans are incorrect, happens way more than you would think. Then we do a form list off those plans which are painted on the footings. Finally when we get to the end of the wall we measure to make sure we have the right fillers. Really there is no excuse for the wrong measurements and out of square should be minimal. Nice job on showing the problems and even better on the floor. Stay safe and have a great day.
Thanks for the feedback. That sounds like you guys do professional work and stand by what you do. That's all anyone can ask for these days. Keep up doing good work and you will always be busier than you need to be. 👍
@@bondobuilt386 thank you. We use to do flatwork as well but got to where we couldn't keep up with walls. Definitely not trying to advertise but look on my channel and you can see some of the basements we do. I'm not trying for subscribers but like to show friends some of the things we do. Several are quite interesting. I love to check out what others do as well to see the good and sometimes the bad work they do. Learned a few things watching what others do. Even an old dog can learn new tricks lol. Good luck and I look forward to some later videos.
@@mathtime4578 Thanks I love learning new tricks and TH-cam is a great reference.
Total station on a basement?
@@mikeboschert4905 yeah we do basements for high-end homes. Some have had 40 corners just in te basement not including the short walls. Turned on all kinds of different angles. Once put into the instrument layout takes minimal time and we know its right. It has paid for itself many times over.
Measure twice, build once. This house will be screwed from the floor, to the roof, drywall, framers, cabinet guys, trim guys , probably plumber even. Electrician will just laugh to the bank.
They were going to frame everything out square so that's why the plate hung over the foundation so bad. Then a porch all the way around front and both sides.
The way the framing hangs over, put the panel there. Run the service straight up out of the ground, into the bottom plate. Lol.
My son put himself threw college as a concert finisher.
Equal diagonals does NOT guarantee it is square. The diagonals check only works if you are certain the opposite sides are equal in length. Otherwise you can have a trapezoid which can have equal diagonals but the corners are not 90 degrees.
The only way to check is to first measure the opposite sides and make sure they are equal. Only then you can measure the diagonals to ensure squareness. You can get away with this in woodworking because you cut the opposite sides the same length. But in this case you must measure them.
Totally agree John and that was the mistake hey never double checked the length of the walls.
Also do the math before hand and know what the diagonal should be and any problem will show up immediately.
and use corner stones.
Professional job. Nice going. Thank you. "Plumb, square and level are overused terms. LOL
Thanks Michael your welcome
When i was setting out for block work or steel work for farm buildings i always measured the sides at least two or three times before doing the diagonals. For just this very reason.
This is the best looking pour I’ve seen.
We always put number 4 rebar on two foot centers. I noticed that you didn’t put anything in for reinforcement. I never much cared for fiber mesh either.
The homeowner made the call on reinforcement for this job.
So how often do you see the basement completely backfilled without a floor system in place. I’d worry about the wall pushing in. Also, on a simple rectangle, it would be hard to make these walls uneven since the block count and sizes are the same side to side. They actually had to work to screw this up, lol! Good job on the floor though!
Saw it more often than not. Safety is number one. Trying to lay a floor around an open hole is not productive and dangerous. And honestly, I've seen walls pushed in by excavators after the floor was framed.
Ya! Don’t brace the wall and then drive a readymix truck right up to the edge. They could at least drive up to the corner!
They couldn't build the floor till the slab was poured because they chose to do monolithic piers down the center. And a floor deck above would make the basement a dark cave.
The best solution is to pour the slab first, and refrain from backfilling till the floor is constructed. On my last two basements the engineers wanted the slab poured before the foundation walls were backfilled even though they were designed as retaining walls. They didn't want the footings or walls to creep inward toward the hole by to force of the dirt. The footings were six feet wide(!) but oh well, you do as you're told.
Looks like poured walls not block
@@joesmoth2610 I was talking about the icf blocks.
Great job, as expected...thx Gary
Thanks Gary
Wow! And there's me worrying about being off my plan measurement by just under 1/2" at the top of the first lift over a 40 foot length. I'll probably win some of that back when I plum the walls as we don't have concrete in yet.
Great work on the floor though.
Ive seen this once before. One ft out of square on the end of a rectangle foundation. The framer built the house longer. Cantilevered 6” and 18”. I guess nobody is perfect but this is something that should be checked multiple times
Well said Greg. Nobody is perfect. These are easy to check before the pour.
So how is it remedied? They have to build out the foundation wall some more to even it out?
well done. gotta be hard to walk in at the end and do good work following something sloppy. very well done sir!
Yes it is bud. Thank you 😊
Great as always...What are your thoughts on ICF basements ?
another nice job you have a great team way better then the guys I have we cant find qualified people that will show up for work, I do have a few core guys I would be lost with out
Thanks Richard. Hard to find good help now days.
Nice work and it’s good to read everyone’s comments. I live in the north shore of Chicago high end neck-of-the-woods and you would be hard pressed to finds guys with all these comments and suggestions/knowledge. The people doing concrete work around here don’t speak English and the ones that do landed at O’hare from Poland and were given directions to the job site when they landed. Terrible workmanship.
In the early 80s I worked on a 7 story building in Brisbane hospital. It was 7 inches out of square . So they added 1 inch to the column in the corner each level to bring it back to square. Good thing I wasn't an impressionable young apprentice... 🤣😂😁😀😎
LOL that had to be a pain.
8"? Thats crazy. I just built a log home and hired a concrete guy to form and pour the foundation after we excavated. My foundation was literally less then 1/2" out of square. It was as near perfect as I could've imaged.
Thats how it should be. Glad they did a good job for ya. This one was a mess.
We are also planning on building a log cabin on a concrete foundation. Did you get any pushback from people about using poured concrete foundation? We live in the Texas and termites are a thing
@@susanconklin4945 I'm in MA and we did a full basement concrete foundation with a stem wall. Are you talking about a slab or a full foundation? If termites are a thing.. I would think you'll wanna at least go with a concrete stem wall? If you look at my youtube channel, you can check out a few videos of the build from start to finish.
I am curious as to why the wire mesh wasn't installed prior to the pour of the flooring? I mean it would add strength to the concrete or not really needed in this case?
Thats a lot of work!
Now I know why people had 'dirt basements' for centuries.
Ya and they did not have cement trucks either. LOL
Great crew, worth a million bucks man.
Thanks Karl
I notice they didn’t counter sink the anchor bolts on the 2x 12 the mason was a couple inches off square or the footing was poured a couple inches off which threw of the block work
Yup 8" off. Lol
are you able to mount plate board over the foam in ICF??? I see plate is flush with the edge of the wall that means it must be over the foam and not over the concrete..
48 years experience forming walls here - I always checked on my Construction Master Pro calculator what the diagonals should be - catches any mistakes like this one right away. - Al the concrete guy
Your floor looks great 👍 !
Thanks Joe
The power of the sun! I do that stuff all the time. And finish by hand no problem with soft spots.
Yup hand bomb the wet areas.
Bla, bla, all these pros, shut your pie holes, a good carpenter can make it happen,,,35 years in this lovely sport,… 5 years left, don’t think I’ll miss it, was a hard life but would not change ,unless I knew before hand, not, was a good run,…
You guys do great work, the guys that messed up the walls : /
Not so much...
Thanks Clyde
Every time I see concrete I just think, here comes a big load of excitement 😀
Yup same here bud. LOL
Yeah thats why I never did concrete. I could always fix a framing mistake or a drywall mistake but concrete ? " A man has got to know his limitations...."
I know it's not related to the video, but have you made or anybody else on here ever seen any good homemade icf braces for basement walls, or what do you like to use. I'm having a big of trouble finding a place to rent braces. Thank ya kindly Josh
“Here comes the muuuud boys and giiiirls!” 😂😂😂
Dude , you're a bad ass ! I have seen the crazy diagonal wall before tho , worst spot , breakfast nook
Thanks Bro. I always say check and double check but shit does happen out there. I just don't want it to be me. LOL
Hi, nice video. Can you explain what the use is of the 3 boxes that were made in the floor (see 1:44)? Whats the use of that? In this case no rebar, why not?
What are the three square holes in the middle for? Column support?
The footers for the walls should be poured with the bottom floor and the rebar (I heard the part about using fiber in mix - Helix is better than fiber and could replace much of the rebar) so that the rebar for the walls is integrated with the footers and floor. Probably should have used SCC. Basically if the house gets any earth movement, it might be in trouble, hopefully it’s Michigan or some place that doesn’t have real earthquakes.
no earthquakes in New York. The footers and walls were done to code just way out of square.
Footings are buried under the frost line. You'd blow the forms out long before you reached "floor" level.
@@goatboy150 false with SCC
my house was built in 1920 and they did the same thing. I can tell from the foundation block work that the crew was amateur at best. from one corner of the house to the next corner, the sill plate starts flush with the outside and by the other end it's a good 2 inches overhung. And so is the wall and the studs. They tried to hide it by building the stucco out but it's still way overhung even with that. I never even notice this until I started replacing the sill. What an unwanted surprise. hardly the first one with this place either.
Imagine no conveyors or pump trucks? We did it that way for decades. Used to be 1 pump truck in the whole state booked for months in advance. Now there is 6 pumps and a dozen conveyors trucks.
That's the problem with measuring diagonals. If you don't use A squared + B squared= C squared you are only making sure two corners have the same number. The Pythagorean theorem will tell you what that corner number has to be!
Yup for sure.
You should snap a grade line with chalk on the wall. Using the laser makes sense for the center screed line but not the wall line. Give it a try, it really saves time on the laydown. My method is to spend the time prepping for the pour and getting it out and flat as fast as possible
Check your square both directions each time and you won't accidentally leave a wall out like that.
@@igroku2483 It wasn't square they needed to double check, it was overall wall length. You can have diagonals match, and remain out of square, if two walls are incorrect lengths.
“Big Biscuit”, what an epic nickname!
What was the point of those three deeper squares on the floor?
Edit: Wait, those are for pillar supports for the main floor, so less chance of cracking, right?
Yes sir exactly
@@bondobuilt386 how many cub of concrete going into it and what slump are you having it at considering its a basement are you doing proper concrete or you using cemfloor
@@matteyeckersall3132 4000 psi concrete. With fibers 3/8 stone. Straight cement no fly ash or slag. The slump was a 5 to 5-1/2"
@@bondobuilt386 nice slump you guys did an excellent job
@@matteyeckersall3132 Thank you sir.
Thank you for sharing!
I have to say that when I was doing concrete work, I didn't have an ounce of fat on me. These guys are huge. Work them for a month doing concrete work. They will be buff!
Ya we get fat during or long cold winters. LOL
I like how you pointed out what was wrong with out being ...just telling the truth you and yr crew come very likeable👍
Thanks John
0:54. EIGHT INCH DIFFERENCE IN THE WALL LENGTH!!! Only two possible causes: Gross incompetence or inebriation (maybe both)!
Agreed
That shadow can’t affect thé curing that much , here in Ontario and Quebec we pour year round and believe me when I say it get really cold here lol
The shadow actually effects the way it dries alot especially on a warm sunny day like this. In the cold it would not effect it much at all.
I would of refused to pay for those walls ,plus went after them for tear out and delay expensive.
Yes I agree.
so they filled the sump pump openings that were formed with concrete. that seems a bit odd. wouldn't you want to keep that area open to place the sump pump?
What are the holes that get filled for?
Compare bottom diagonals to the top.. bet my hat they back filled the outside before the cement in walls were cured (a month) , and made it a polygon when ground settled before concrete. We had to re excavate & push out a 3" bow on a 80' wall, back within ¾" .. with my car jack, every glue lam & 6x6 leveraged off opposite wall. All Because the heavy equipment operator pushed sand to the wall, instead of winging it alongside. Seen it a few times now & it always gets blamed on the builders.. but 8" out, is nuts! Also watched the cement crew kick a corner a few inches to get the truck in closer 😅
As a customer i would request a complete tear down of this piss poor job.
You guys are very good.
Thank you 😊
Wow, thats kinda messed up… how hard is it to measure the length of the sides and the diagonals. this all gets worked out when you position the footings and finalized with the first course…
Ya they must have not double checked measurements. smh
I once had a boss that made me dig up a pool wall and move it A QUARTER INCH in order to be perfectly square. I don't know how many rebar pins were in it, but the whole wall of the pool was squared and pinned and ready for the concrete footing when he decided I needed to move it A QUARTER INCH toward the house.
dumb question: why pour over the poly? is the poly there in case the water table rises ?
ICFs are super attractive to novice builders who don't have enough experience to avert disasters like this. "What could be easier to build than giant foam blocks?"
I realized that identical diagonal measurements are actually deceptive if all the other distances are not perfect. It totally makes sense, but sometimes we trust the diagonal as the gold standard, and forget it's only as good as the distances it is based on. "Oh well, the tapers will be able to make it look okay."
Ya sucks just a couple double checks on measurements and it would have been perfect. Save a lot of messing around. The framers will actually be the ones fixing it. That's why the sill plate looked so weird.
Whenever I told my crew “ check that dimensions are uniform” They told me they didn’t want uniforms! Lol
You guys make concrete work look fun and any one who ever did it knows it tough work
Ya it’s hard work but if you have a good crew that knows what they’re doing and work together it’s actually pretty easy.
Had a block layer one time who put up full basement that not only was 2.5 inches out square but was also 2 inches low in one corner.lol. The main contracter was also framer and extremely pissed.
very good points, check twice - do once; in this case at least you will not be embarrassed
Yup sooo true.
That's what happens when you use your eyes to check square.
Omg, the Virgoan perfectionist in me would have flipped out. For as long as I owned the place, I'd never get over it. I'm seriously bothered by it for this owner's sake, and I don't even know him! When I go to build my next place, I'm going to be walking behind the contractors and inspectors, checking everything. As the saying goes, check twice, build once.
607?! That's my area code. I'll have to be sure to never use those clowns. I can't believe they were stupid enough to put their name on the wall of that horrific error.
I know. Lol 😂 I don't think they knew it was off yet when they painted it on there. Lol
Was this a BuildBlock project? If so, I'd love to chat with you about this project, thanks!
It was a Buildblock project They painted the number on the walls. I know little about it as I only poured the floor.
1"thick if you screened level eh! Yikes dude! Sweet time lapse! Great commentary
Both end walls are out ? 3-4-5?
Did they really put their sign on that foundation? That company is out by me- 4.3 stars on Google. I might end up building with ICF in the near future- Glad they put their sign up, so I know who NOT to call!!!!!
That sign looks like the logo for the ICF blocks.
@@TrailTrackers no they are builders in cny
Ya they painted it right on the wall. Probably before they realized it was out of square? LOL
@@TrailTrackers Nope it was painted on. LOL
Whats with the square holes in the middle of the floor that got filled in with concrete?
Jack post pads to support the center beam and floor system.
foundation is a trapezoid; diagonal will always be the same. need to check all wall dimensions. once you pour it in concrete it's not easy to fix without a bulldozer. I've seen sills hang off the foundation worse than that, always amazed me why they did it.
You guys obviously know what you're doing. My son tried pouring a 20 x 30 slab and the mud got away from him and set up rough on top before he could smooth it out. Can this be fixed, or does it need to be jack-hammered out and start over? Thank for any advice that will help
There are concrete polishers/grinders (usually walk-behind units you move around) that should be able to smooth it out. Or at worst, leave it as and do a skim coat of concrete or that epoxy stuff that's meant for levelling or smoothing rough surfacing. The first two are cheaper, that epoxy can get expensive.
nice job amazing good work greetings from the netherlands
Thank you so much.
There was a doorway in an apartment I once lived that was all sorts of wrong. Probably explains much of the nail-pop.
wouldn't it have been easier to do the foundation & slab prior to doing the ICF? Any reason why ppl put up the ICF first and then the slab? I also assume if the slab was done first they could have had better anchor points for the support to eliminate the out of square bow?
You've never done any construction work, have you?
@@MLMcCarrenAnd what if he hasn't? So what? He's just trying to understand the process, but shaming him accomplishes nothing.
@@jennifer9528 Have you always been hateful or are you working to be that nasty person no one likes?
Your illusory superiority is duly noted.
What were those square holes that you filled in.
They used ICF for the walls but didn't bother to insulate the slab?
I know I would have radiant in that sucker if it was me.
Just because there are sections of concrete that are drying at different with their be a color change with the concrete? Nice work.
Thanks it will take time but will even the color out
The reason why the walls were out of square is that there wasn’t an Italian mechanic on scene. You can’t expect a bunch of workers who were living in dirt floored houses a few years ago to lay out square foundations.