I saw an old WWII documentary on the P-47 that compared it to a bare-knuckle brawler and that has always stuck in my mind. So many times I've heard people say it's an ugly plane, but all I see is beauty.
I have never heard of anyone calling the P-47 ugly. Sure, it is big and kind of chubby looking, but it was performed very well. I think it is a great looking plane. The only US plane that was kind of ugly was the Corsair when viewed from the side. The vertical stabilizer looks like it was stuck on as an afterthought. That does not negate the performance of the Cosair. It also performed very well and was a great plane, as was the P-38 and the Navy Hellcat. With all of those great fighters we had, nobody ever talks about the P-40. Even though it was outdated, more than 200 pilots of various allied nations became aces in the P-40. It was in production almost until the end of WW2.
@@jacobjonm0511 You don't seem to understand what the quote means. It means beauty is subjective, not that somehow the beauty of one's eyes affects what is seen through those eyes.
Fun fact;: that P-51 IS Upupa Epops not a P-51 repainted as it but the actual restored Aircraft. It fought in WWII and has been restored to her wartime livery.
@@fuel_fire_racing_10 What he was saying is that the P-51 in the video, painted with the Upupa Epops nose art, is the actual original P-51 that bore that nose art, not a different P-51 painted with Upupa Epops nose art.
One of the reasons the radials are harder to start is because the valves are set at cold clearance rather than running clearance, in effect the valves are set too tight initially to compensate for the growth of the cylinder. That is why they smooth out after a period of warm up.
DAMN!! The BigWigs at Republic drew a rendition of a tank on paper and took that drawing to thier engineers and said, make this thing fly. I REALLY love the Mustang but, that engin in the '47 makes that P-51 sound like a lawn mower starting up. That truly was "The Greatest Generation"!
Sweet! I've always loved the sound of a radial engine. They have more growl and attitude than a V engine. Pain in the ass to start but what a glorious sound once it's running.
I'm sure they were less temperamental when being used daily in service and with considerably less molly-coddling. These things sit for weeks at a time and crew rightly ease them gently into life making sure all the cylinders are perfectly clear. In wartime I'm sure there would have been little fuss.
@@iangascoigne8231 Yeah after several minutes of having warm oil pumped through every nook and cranny of the Merlin engine. Look up Kermit Weeks' walkaround of the P-51, it takes him ages to get it from cold to ready to run. I'm by no means an expert personally but besides the issue of oil collecting in the lower combustion chambers of radial engines they couldn't have been that much more of a bitch to start otherwise they wouldn't have been in such widespread service.
@@chrisburn7178 Back in the late 1970s, I was a mechanic on DC3s in the Canadian North. Those round engines could be *JUST* as fussy in everyday use. Just sayin'... but I still *LOVE* 'em!!
@@chrisburn7178 How do you know that’s what they did on this instance? I never said radial engines were no good. They were used because they were less susceptible to damage.
@@cbz3237 When the armorers came out on the field, they drove the trucks as fast as they could, kicked the bombs off the trailer, and let them roll toward the aircraft. Everybody else would leave the field. When they went back for the fuses, the armorers would drive 10 mph, careful to avoid every pot hole. Fuses are sensitive, but my father had no problem taking a hammer to a bomb plug, whenever he wanted someone to leave.
It should perhaps be noted that the Mustang sports a Merlin: a v-12, 27 liter (roughly 1650 cubic inches) water-cooled engine. The Thunderbolt packs a 'Double Wasp': 2800 CI (45 liter) 18 cylinder air-cooled radial.
My old boss flew both of these in WW2 out of England. He started in the Jug flying his first mission on D-day, and later his squadron transitioned to the Mustang. He had some amazing stories.
Big problem with these old radials in being hard to start are the new old stock condensers and magneto coils. You can replace them with brand new 70 year old parts, but only 4 coils out of 50 will be good until you put a load on them, then they cut out. Sad but true
I'd think that there would be a market for new replacement parts for these old engjnes so you wouldn't have to keep rebuilding old parts or looking for 80 year old unused original parts.
@Sun Is Rising If you own a multi-million dollar WWII warbird, you're probably financially able to pay for the required parts, which sometimes have to be custom built.
My father flew the 47 in WWII. 27th, squadron 524. Based in Pontedera, Italy. After their missions he said they used to play follow the leader around the Tower of Pisa. His squadron was also the first allied base in Germany as they were forced down due to weather in Biblas Germany where they were until the end of the war. As any vet, he had a lot of stories. The jug never gets enough credit or respect when talking about great fighters but the stats don't lie. It was unmatched as a killing machine. As my father said, if anything was moving on the ground, they killed it.
If you ever have a chance, there's a Airshow in Reading, Pa. Called the World War II weekend. The Mid-Atlantic Air Museum. It's the first part of June usually. Aside from the planes, they also showcase paratroopers jumping out of a C47 with the actual equipment and they show off the infantry and tanks and loads of other stuff.
Thanks. I would love to see that. The Chino airshow in 2019 had re-enactors jump from two C-47s in period uniforms and gear. It was pretty incredible to witness!
Read the story of Bob Johnsons experience in a shot up thunderbolt..it's an amazing survival that no other plane of that era could have..even the focke wolf's pilot was amazed..
I was at an airshow and it was time for the Warbirds Flypast. Spitfire: *Roar-r-r-r-r* Crowd: Yeah! Mustang: *Roar-r-r-r-r* Crowd: Yeah! Corsair: *Zoo-o-om* Crowd: Ooooh! The "Ooh" was so obvious, that it was followed by a ripple of laughter.
Both were/are amazing. My grandpa flew p51’s in WW2 with squadron 430 RCAF. For what it did In sorties and covering b17’s I pick the mustang. That engine won the war👍🫡
One was finesse the other was brute strength. Both great fighters in their own right. The P51 was much better in turns, more maneuverable overall and had much greater range, but the P47 could take a savage beating that would disintegrate a P51. One round into a P51's Merlin engine and it was over. P47's were known to have cylinders shot out of their radial engines and still make it back to base. The P47 could also carry more ammo than the P51.
Actually the P47 had the longer range when fitted with drop tanks, it was the air corp generals (aka the bomber mafia that thought it was a good idea to send bombers in unescorted) who nixed the drop tanks for the p47 and allowed it for the p51 when they realized they had to escort the bombers to Berlin. Gregs airplanes and automobiles has a great series on the p47 that explains it all.
@@KI4HOK I wonder if that had something to do with the air corp generals wanting the P47 almost exclusively for an air to ground attack role where it excelled. P51's would sometimes strafe ground targets on their way back to base but one ack-ack round into the P51 engine and you ain't making it back. The P47's would come back shot to hell, you'd patch em' up and send em' back out.
I know everybody loves the sound of a P51 Merlin and the planes sleek looks (me too). But after doing a deep dive on the P47 on Greg's airplanes channel, a 6 part series just on the P47 and learned the truth about a cover up, the lie a P47 didn't have the range to make it to Berlin, not only could it, but it could reach almost all of Germany! And it's incredible performance which rivaled the P51, it became my new favorite fighter of ww2 and the sound of the double wasp radial, incredible and capable of 3000hp! I love its sound better!! Nothing like a super large displacement radial puttering at low rpm were you can hear each huge cylinder fire is just music to my ears! An airplane that deserves the highest recognition but got cheated out of it!
No question that the P47D with drop tanks could fly to Berlin in early 1944, just like the P51B/C. But after dropping the external tanks, the P47 was left with only internal fuel to fight and then return home. The P47D heavy fuel consumption gave the P47D very little loiter time over Germany after dropping tanks, compared to the much longer loiter time that the P51B/C's had due to better fuel economy and a larger internal fuel capacity. This is why the P51B/C's became the primary fighter in neutralizing the Luftwaffe over its home airfields. The P47D's did get their fair share of Luftwaffe kills during that critical period leading up to D-Day, but could not rack up the kills of the P51B/C due to the limited internal fuel giving too short a loiter time over Germany. The P47 from March 1943 to May 1945 (26 months in ETO theater) racked up 3700+ air-to-air kills. The P51B/C/D/K, from January, 1944 to May 1945 (16 months in ETO Theater) racked up 4900+ air-to-air kills, or 1200 more kills over 10 less months in theater. The shorter loiter time over Germany is why the P47 could not inflict as much damage on the Luftwaffe as the P51B/C/D/K. Unfortunately, Greg has apparently read BOMBER MAFIA (Malcomb Gladwell), and has bought into the very flawed "conspiracy" theories put forth by Gladwell. Gladwell's "conspiracy" theories start to fall apart when you start looking at the reality of the P47D's major problem at long range escort, its very limited time remaining after dropping tanks. Republic did start working on the P47's low internal fuel as the loiter time problem became apparent, and by early 1945 had come up with the P47N as a solution. But the P47N was not available in the critical time frame of Jan-May, 1944, when it was absolutely essential for the Luftwaffe to be neutralized as a threat for D-Day to occur in June, 1944. When reviewing history, it is necessary to look at the situation as it appeared at the time to the people involved, and not get caught up in the error of looking at 1944, from a 2023 perspective. To get an accurate view of the situation as it appeared at the time, the historian MUST walk in the time frame, and get rid of his modern views.
Ah. I do so adore the ol' Jug. It's just so quintessentially American. ("*Bigger* engine! *Gigantic* turbo! *50ft* wide! *8* guns! Make 2million! Make it weigh 8 tons! Make 15000 of them! Pass that moonshine! Yeehaw!") Like it was designed by Tim Taylor, Hunter Thompson and Sam Kinison on a bender. The elegant Brit-contract Merlin-powered Mustang is totally awesome, still way cool and all, but the Jug is just so balls-out nuts it wins my heart.
Starting radial airplane engines is always such a frustrating pain in the ass. Imagine if the Hurricanes and Spitfires had radials. They would have lost the battle of Britain, sitting on the ground trying to get the damned things started when time was not only off the essence, it was life and death!
P-47 ready room... "Scramble, Scramble...oh wait...shelter, shelter". j/k of course. The jug was an amazing combat fighter and fighter bomber, as many a dead enemy would tell you if they could talk.
Trying to wake up an R-2800 is a pain but once started, that glorious sound! 5 P-51's could have started and off the ground by the time the Jug gets moving lol 😆
The R2800 is almost like a diesel....wants to run....once all those cylinders decide to be a team player you could literally loose a jug and still fly home.
im going to burrow this from a f4 tube. you dont start a radial engine you wake it up. it may roll over and hit snooze a few time but when it decides to wake up stay out of its way
Compound? Nope. You're a few years too early and the radials reliability was pretty shit if the temperature was high or the cowling was too tight. Not to mention what the cowling flaps would do to airflow if they were left open at the wrong time. Compound engines took those issues and dumped a few afterchargers on there which became known as parts recovery turbines because that's where melted bits of engine turned up.
Oh........the Mustang can start itself without the aid of a ground power cart......and starts easily and the first time. HUGE advantage over the P-47. By the way, what if the P-47 needed to restart it's engine in flight?
@@katsu-graphics5634 I'm surprised they haven't modified the restored P-47 because after all....it is a fighter/bomber. It can afford the weight of an onboard battery.
Keep in mind most of the engine parts the 47 uses are over 70 years old, there aren't any producers making new parts for radial engines these days. During WW2 both engines would have had no problems starting.
@@Tacticaviator7 Oh gosh......I've seen some of these war birds up close and I would venture to say that they are in better shape now then when they rolled off the factory floor. And that's no exaggeration. Ever see Clay Lacy's DC-3 ? I guarantee that it's in better shape than when it rolled off the factory floor. Modern aircraft maintenance is that much better than back in the day. A lot more is understood now. I'm not positive but I think there are guys making parts for these birds. You know, the Reno Race crowd.
The Radials are harder to start but they're also harder to stop. Any amount of damage good enough to turn off a P47's engine has thoroughly killed the pilot already, so the issue is moot.
Notice how easily the British designed Rolls Royce fired up, compared to the big US designed radial? Ah, just an Aussie messing with ya!😉 Love both these planes, the Stang's elegance and beauty and the Jug's raw power combined with that brawler's build and nasty engine sound. Great stuff.👍 Thanks
Hard to tell to be honest…gasoline is of a lower quality now days and back then the electrical power wasn’t what it is now…just have to be quick with the primer and know how much throttle and mixture to use for the particular engine.
My dad was a mech on Corsairs in the 1940's.He said the mechs usually started the planes and warmed them up for the pilots.He said the pilots couldn't get them going as quick as the mechs could.I was a aircraft mech for 40 years in civillian planes,and some were harder to start than others.
My father flew in PBMs which had Wright Cyclone engines. He said they had oil warmers that made starting easier, but it was not like getting into a fuel injected car and driving off.
@@OverTheSun41 so much nope. Its not the quality it's the octane. Engine on that 47 was designed to run on 135/145 octane fuel and the Merlin could run on it too. But its carcinogen in a can and will melt aluminium. The modern stuff is much better and cleaner but it's a lower octane so you either retune the engines or they run like a bag of hammers and can take a bit of winding over to start.
When I was younger? I thought the Mustang was so cool for a WW2 fighter. It just looked so great (from the 'D' model forward). But now? If I had to choose one or the other to actually fight in? I would pick the P-47 in a heartbeat (mostly because it's engine was air cooled). Thanks for this video. ☮
For a cold start yes. Normally the ground crew would get the plane going for an intercept and would fire the engine up periodically to keep the engine warmed up for faster starts. This is a thing that still goes on today as you want to wait for engine temp and oil pressure to reach optimal levels
@@jayglier cold start back then wasn’t as long as the one in this video. They are 50+ years old now, but you’re right. They weren’t the fastest starting. At least the radial engine.
Or even the other direction as I imagine there were times where a pilot got reassigned for some reason. It must have been hard to switch either way as they are such different aircraft from their engines, to their airframes, to their tactics.
Aesthetically speaking, seeing the thunderbolt to the mustang side by side is like Whoopi Goldberg standing next to Christie Brinkley. Like a Toyota corolla parked next to a Ferrari 458 Italia. Like a Glock 9 mil next to a frickin Light Saber 😉
Geez, half the video was cranking the P-47. Due to not priming it enough? Most other war birds with big radials don't take that long. If the engine has got a pre-oiler there's little excuse for almost frying the starter motor.
It's a way of 2-way communication without using an intercom or radio. It is also a way for the surrounding crew to see and be warned about what is about to happen. (Each flight phase has it's own dangers...)
As said above. The ground crew *should* on a cold start indicate to spin the engine with the other hand raised closed fist to indicate ignition off for either 9 or 12 blades. Then mesh the starter again with the mags set to start - other hand raised palm. The engine fires, set mags to run position and ease the mixture as the engine warms. The pilot will signal to remove chocks by raising both hands closed fists and extend out horizontally. Check controls are free and clear (ground locks off), check for the usual idiot wandering around like a headless chicken and off you go. Make sure in the case of an aircraft fitted with a constant speed prop it's set to fine, and set advance and mixture *before* playing with the throttle.
One mistake made by the military during Korea was they took the p51 over their for ground support by the USAF when they shiuld have used the p47's they could carry more ordinance and had more .50'a for strafing. And could with stand more damage that the p51 bringing the pilot's back to base.
Absolutely. They used to have them all fired up the night before and just leave them idling with the ground crew trickling fuel into the tanks to keep them full! In all seriousness though a pilot and ground crew would know their engine intimately. They would all have their little differences and pilot and mechanic would be able to fire them up pretty quickly. These are 70 - 80 year old engines so they’d be getting a bit cranky by now.
If I can only pick one fighter aircraft to fight world war II with it would have been the thunderbolt I know the Germans didn't respect it because it wasn't elegant like their BF 109 or the spitfire which they admired but at the same time jagdwaffe pilots found themselves frequently and often running out of ammunition trying to shoot down a jug or found their aircraft being blown apart pretty much instantaneously by the 850 caliber machine guns of the P-47 and on the ground panzer divisions found themselves helpless to stop the wrath of a thunderbolt as it shredded infantry and obliterated tanks As for the escort mission which the Mustang excelled at the P-47 was upgraded so it could do that too and equally importantly you had the p47n which had enough range to escort b-29 superfortresses all the way to Tokyo and still being able to hit almost 470 mph. In the end usaaf preferred the Mustang because it was $49,000 as opposed to $83,000 for a thunderbolt but frequently and often the thunderbolt would last three or four times as long as a Mustang.
@@thebighurt2495 I meant European theater Gabreski and Robert s Johnson who shot down 28 and 27(I might be a pinch off on their victory totals) aircraft respectively both flew Thunderbolts
@@jehb8945 Oh, I believe it. Richard Bong 40 kills (P38 Lightning) Thomas B. McGuire 38 Kills (P38 Lightning) David McCampbell 34 (F6F Hellcat) Francis Gabreski (P47 Thunderbolt) Robert S. Johnson (P47 Thunderbolt) Charles H. MacDonald 27 (P38 Lightning) Turns out we're *both* right.
Fun fact about the P-47.....the engine has 4 banks or basically 4 engines bolted to each other all connected with a single crankshaft. This P-47 if you listened very closely, the rear 2 banks started first
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 90 | คู่เอก "ก้องไกล vs แอนตาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VugIvOstzRI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Live] : ONE FIGHT NIGHT 26 วันนี้!! “คริสเตียน vs อาลิเบก”](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UlIiZ3t8nHQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I saw an old WWII documentary on the P-47 that compared it to a bare-knuckle brawler and that has always stuck in my mind. So many times I've heard people say it's an ugly plane, but all I see is beauty.
I've heard it said it's fuselage has an aesthetic that only an engineer could love. I'm not an engineer but I think it's a nice looking plane.
let's be honest, P 47 is ugly.
@@jacobjonm0511 Eye of the beholder I guess...
I have never heard of anyone calling the P-47 ugly. Sure, it is big and kind of chubby looking, but it was performed very well. I think it is a great looking plane.
The only US plane that was kind of ugly was the Corsair when viewed from the side. The vertical stabilizer looks like it was stuck on as an afterthought.
That does not negate the performance of the Cosair. It also performed very well and was a great plane, as was the P-38 and the Navy Hellcat.
With all of those great fighters we had, nobody ever talks about the P-40. Even though it was outdated, more than 200 pilots of various allied nations became aces in the P-40. It was in production almost until the end of WW2.
@@jacobjonm0511 You don't seem to understand what the quote means. It means beauty is subjective, not that somehow the beauty of one's eyes affects what is seen through those eyes.
I love how the propeller speed syncs up to the camera and looks like it's not spinning. Such a weird optical illusion.
I like the illusion when it oscillates. 😄
Fun fact;: that P-51 IS Upupa Epops not a P-51 repainted as it but the actual restored Aircraft. It fought in WWII and has been restored to her wartime livery.
@Christopher Dobinson, that is so cool. I love it when the actual aircraft are maintained in their liveries.
What a treasure!
Yep, that is correct! ;)
That is a p 51 mustang made by America to fight in ww2
@@fuel_fire_racing_10 What he was saying is that the P-51 in the video, painted with the Upupa Epops nose art, is the actual original P-51 that bore that nose art, not a different P-51 painted with Upupa Epops nose art.
One of the reasons the radials are harder to start is because the valves are set at cold clearance rather than running clearance, in effect the valves are set too tight initially to compensate for the growth of the cylinder. That is why they smooth out after a period of warm up.
DAMN!! The BigWigs at Republic drew a rendition of a tank on paper and took that drawing to thier engineers and said, make this thing fly.
I REALLY love the Mustang but, that engin in the '47 makes that P-51 sound like a lawn mower starting up. That truly was "The Greatest Generation"!
I was thinking of a lawnmower because the '47 didn't start right away, pulling on the starter cord until the engine fired up.
The Jug was also known as the Cadillac of fighters.
Sweet! I've always loved the sound of a radial engine. They have more growl and attitude than a V engine. Pain in the ass to start but what a glorious sound once it's running.
I'm sure they were less temperamental when being used daily in service and with considerably less molly-coddling. These things sit for weeks at a time and crew rightly ease them gently into life making sure all the cylinders are perfectly clear. In wartime I'm sure there would have been little fuss.
@@chrisburn7178 Yet the P51 fired up at the first turn of the key.
@@iangascoigne8231 Yeah after several minutes of having warm oil pumped through every nook and cranny of the Merlin engine. Look up Kermit Weeks' walkaround of the P-51, it takes him ages to get it from cold to ready to run. I'm by no means an expert personally but besides the issue of oil collecting in the lower combustion chambers of radial engines they couldn't have been that much more of a bitch to start otherwise they wouldn't have been in such widespread service.
@@chrisburn7178 Back in the late 1970s, I was a mechanic on DC3s in the Canadian North. Those round engines could be *JUST* as fussy in everyday use. Just sayin'... but I still *LOVE* 'em!!
@@chrisburn7178 How do you know that’s what they did on this instance? I never said radial engines were no good. They were used because they were less susceptible to damage.
Like they say, you don't start a 2800. You wake it up !
My father armed these aircraft, but what amazed him about the P-47 was that something that heavy could actually get off the ground.
Imagine it loaded with 3 bombs or a full droptank too, absolute beast!
@@cbz3237 When the armorers came out on the field, they drove the trucks as fast as they could, kicked the bombs off the trailer, and let them roll toward the aircraft. Everybody else would leave the field. When they went back for the fuses, the armorers would drive 10 mph, careful to avoid every pot hole. Fuses are sensitive, but my father had no problem taking a hammer to a bomb plug, whenever he wanted someone to leave.
It should perhaps be noted that the Mustang sports a Merlin: a v-12, 27 liter (roughly 1650 cubic inches) water-cooled engine. The Thunderbolt packs a 'Double Wasp': 2800 CI (45 liter) 18 cylinder air-cooled radial.
And the Merlin starts first time sweet as a nut whereas the Wasp....................................................?
As most engine guru's, Reno mechanics, old airliners, etc.,...you just cant beat excessive C.I.'s!!
as the old saying goes there is no replacement for displacement great vid
@@Wtf0069 ...and when the bullets are coming back at ya, what do you want in front of you the Merlin or the Twin Wasp?
@@drinksnapple8997 alot of steel..lol. Or the one that will run with a missing jug and a couple of holes in the front case! Just amazing.
P-47, what a beast of a plane.
My thoughts exactly.... A Beast!
@@Chuck_Carolina Like a greyhound and a rottweiler sitting next to each other
Yeah, my uncle flew them in the war. New Zealander flying for the RAF.
I love the sound of a Merlin, but that R-2800 just sounds so much sweeter to me.
You can really see the size difference in this video. love it.
The P-47 is just a huge radial engine with accessories bolted onto it.
My old boss flew both of these in WW2 out of England. He started in the Jug flying his first mission on D-day, and later his squadron transitioned to the Mustang. He had some amazing stories.
I love the sound of the 2800 in the morning!!!
Sounds like…. Victory!
Big problem with these old radials in being hard to start are the new old stock condensers and magneto coils. You can replace them with brand new 70 year old parts, but only 4 coils out of 50 will be good until you put a load on them, then they cut out. Sad but true
I'd think that there would be a market for new replacement parts for these old engjnes so you wouldn't have to keep rebuilding old parts or looking for 80 year old unused original parts.
@Sun Is Rising If you own a multi-million dollar WWII warbird, you're probably financially able to pay for the required parts, which sometimes have to be custom built.
They both look and sound great!
My father flew the 47 in WWII. 27th, squadron 524. Based in Pontedera, Italy. After their missions he said they used to play follow the leader around the Tower of Pisa. His squadron was also the first allied base in Germany as they were forced down due to weather in Biblas Germany where they were until the end of the war. As any vet, he had a lot of stories. The jug never gets enough credit or respect when talking about great fighters but the stats don't lie. It was unmatched as a killing machine. As my father said, if anything was moving on the ground, they killed it.
Literally I dream of owning one (P-47) sooo beautiful and screams freedom
That's the sound of powerful fuel pumps! ^^
Both were superb planes in the right roles.
Different planes for different purposes
Sweet music! My pops was an engine mechanic in the pacific
Man I miss those summer fly-days. Had so many great days photographing from the museum side and over at the windsock. Thank you for posting this.
If you ever have a chance, there's a Airshow in Reading, Pa. Called the World War II weekend. The Mid-Atlantic Air Museum. It's the first part of June usually. Aside from the planes, they also showcase paratroopers jumping out of a C47 with the actual equipment and they show off the infantry and tanks and loads of other stuff.
Thanks. I would love to see that. The Chino airshow in 2019 had re-enactors jump from two C-47s in period uniforms and gear. It was pretty incredible to witness!
@@acefox1 nice. It is incredible to witness.
That Jug is massive lol, I knew they were big, but never seen one parked next to something else for actual reference in size, very cool :)
The P-47D Thunderbolt. A massive flying supercharger with a tank of an airplane and 8, .50 caliber machine guns bolted to it.
Gotta love the Jug
It's still something else to see the fine piece of British engineering inside the Mustang kick and run like that after 75 years.
As opposed to the resilient and die-hard nature of the Pratt & Whitney?
The Mustang and Sherman Firefly are perfect examples of when nations team up to solve a problem.
Read the story of Bob Johnsons experience in a shot up thunderbolt..it's an amazing survival that no other plane of that era could have..even the focke wolf's pilot was amazed..
The roaring "P's"
Pratt/Wittny & Packard
Gotta love the Allisons
"Growl" also.....it's the only thing missing.
🙂
Love the big Jugs!
I was at an airshow and it was time for the Warbirds Flypast.
Spitfire: *Roar-r-r-r-r* Crowd: Yeah!
Mustang: *Roar-r-r-r-r* Crowd: Yeah!
Corsair: *Zoo-o-om* Crowd: Ooooh!
The "Ooh" was so obvious, that it was followed by a ripple of laughter.
The P47's are beasts. Very cool beasts
the radial takes lots of coaxing, begging, pumping and trying, to get it going. the Merlin starts first try and is ready to go!
Glad I was never on the receiving end of the P-47's eight 50 cals. What a lead slinger!
What about the Typhoon's TWELVE?
My grandfather was a fighter pilot instructor during WWII his favorite plane was the P-51D mustang
Both were/are amazing. My grandpa flew p51’s in WW2 with squadron 430 RCAF. For what it did In sorties and covering b17’s I pick the mustang. That engine won the war👍🫡
One was finesse the other was brute strength. Both great fighters in their own right. The P51 was much better in turns, more maneuverable overall and had much greater range, but the P47 could take a savage beating that would disintegrate a P51. One round into a P51's Merlin engine and it was over. P47's were known to have cylinders shot out of their radial engines and still make it back to base. The P47 could also carry more ammo than the P51.
Eeeeeeeeewwew
@@ronaldfrenette3672 what
Actually the P47 had the longer range when fitted with drop tanks, it was the air corp generals (aka the bomber mafia that thought it was a good idea to send bombers in unescorted) who nixed the drop tanks for the p47 and allowed it for the p51 when they realized they had to escort the bombers to Berlin. Gregs airplanes and automobiles has a great series on the p47 that explains it all.
@@KI4HOK I wonder if that had something to do with the air corp generals wanting the P47 almost exclusively for an air to ground attack role where it excelled. P51's would sometimes strafe ground targets on their way back to base but one ack-ack round into the P51 engine and you ain't making it back. The P47's would come back shot to hell, you'd patch em' up and send em' back out.
Fun little clip. Odd how the camera shutter speed made the propellers appear to be not moving sometimes.
my great uncle flew both during ww2. in fact, the p-51 that he flew, was the plane just before the one in the video. his marking was the SX-K
Wow! I thought I was watching " flight of the Phoenix" there for awhile. I would expect the R2800 to turn over faster than that.
This really puts in perspective how fucking big the Jugs engine is, like twice the size of the p51s, with even bigger blades
2:55 for the start.
Ive seen yesterday a Start from a Messerschmitt JF 109 with a DB (Mercedes) Engine. Just one start and that thing was running like a smooth Cat...
Really get a good look at relative size of 51 v 47. 47 is a tank.
The P47 says 'brute force' but the P51 says 'athleticism' !
Not surprising that the A-10 is the grandson of the P-47
It's like one is an elegant dagger and the other is a blunt hammer...
Ironic. Considering the p47s top speed is higher.
It's amazing how the p-47 is so much bigger than the p-51
I know everybody loves the sound of a P51 Merlin and the planes sleek looks (me too). But after doing a deep dive on the P47 on Greg's airplanes channel, a 6 part series just on the P47 and learned the truth about a cover up, the lie a P47 didn't have the range to make it to Berlin, not only could it, but it could reach almost all of Germany! And it's incredible performance which rivaled the P51, it became my new favorite fighter of ww2 and the sound of the double wasp radial, incredible and capable of 3000hp! I love its sound better!! Nothing like a super large displacement radial puttering at low rpm were you can hear each huge cylinder fire is just music to my ears! An airplane that deserves the highest recognition but got cheated out of it!
No question that the P47D with drop tanks could fly to Berlin in early 1944, just like the P51B/C. But after dropping the external tanks, the P47 was left with only internal fuel to fight and then return home. The P47D heavy fuel consumption gave the P47D very little loiter time over Germany after dropping tanks, compared to the much longer loiter time that the P51B/C's had due to better fuel economy and a larger internal fuel capacity. This is why the P51B/C's became the primary fighter in neutralizing the Luftwaffe over its home airfields. The P47D's did get their fair share of Luftwaffe kills during that critical period leading up to D-Day, but could not rack up the kills of the P51B/C due to the limited internal fuel giving too short a loiter time over Germany. The P47 from March 1943 to May 1945 (26 months in ETO theater) racked up 3700+ air-to-air kills. The P51B/C/D/K, from January, 1944 to May 1945 (16 months in ETO Theater) racked up 4900+ air-to-air kills, or 1200 more kills over 10 less months in theater. The shorter loiter time over Germany is why the P47 could not inflict as much damage on the Luftwaffe as the P51B/C/D/K.
Unfortunately, Greg has apparently read BOMBER MAFIA (Malcomb Gladwell), and has bought into the very flawed "conspiracy" theories put forth by Gladwell. Gladwell's "conspiracy" theories start to fall apart when you start looking at the reality of the P47D's major problem at long range escort, its very limited time remaining after dropping tanks. Republic did start working on the P47's low internal fuel as the loiter time problem became apparent, and by early 1945 had come up with the P47N as a solution. But the P47N was not available in the critical time frame of Jan-May, 1944, when it was absolutely essential for the Luftwaffe to be neutralized as a threat for D-Day to occur in June, 1944.
When reviewing history, it is necessary to look at the situation as it appeared at the time to the people involved, and not get caught up in the error of looking at 1944, from a 2023 perspective. To get an accurate view of the situation as it appeared at the time, the historian MUST walk in the time frame, and get rid of his modern views.
WWII American planes are such gorgeous machines. 💙
Ah. I do so adore the ol' Jug. It's just so quintessentially American. ("*Bigger* engine! *Gigantic* turbo! *50ft* wide! *8* guns! Make 2million! Make it weigh 8 tons! Make 15000 of them! Pass that moonshine! Yeehaw!") Like it was designed by Tim Taylor, Hunter Thompson and Sam Kinison on a bender. The elegant Brit-contract Merlin-powered Mustang is totally awesome, still way cool and all, but the Jug is just so balls-out nuts it wins my heart.
Starting radial airplane engines is always such a frustrating pain in the ass. Imagine if the Hurricanes and Spitfires had radials. They would have lost the battle of Britain, sitting on the ground trying to get the damned things started when time was not only off the essence, it was life and death!
For anybody paying attention to the math, 2:56 for the radial to start, TWO SECONDS for the V12 to start.
C'est sûr que c'est puissant, mais après, faut pas être pressé !
The R-2800 sounds like an man's engine. The Merlin sounds like a mower.
Due fulmini di guerra! Motori Allison e Pratt& Withney! Potenza pura!!!
Motori Roll-Royce e Pratt & Whitney
Beautiful
Holy Cow. Almost half of the video watched before it started.
Cool stroboscopic effect.
P-47 ready room... "Scramble, Scramble...oh wait...shelter, shelter". j/k of course. The jug was an amazing combat fighter and fighter bomber, as many a dead enemy would tell you if they could talk.
You can’t beat a bubble top.
Trying to wake up an R-2800 is a pain but once started, that glorious sound! 5 P-51's could have started and off the ground by the time the Jug gets moving lol 😆
But the Jug had a better chance of returning !
The R2800 is almost like a diesel....wants to run....once all those cylinders decide to be a team player you could literally loose a jug and still fly home.
it reminds me of the movie flight of the phoenix. Great movie if you love radial engines.
That gave me goose bumps!
im going to burrow this from a f4 tube. you dont start a radial engine you wake it up. it may roll over and hit snooze a few time but when it decides to wake up stay out of its way
how did get on in the war????
Certainly the Merlin engine was the most famous of the WW2 engines, but nothing beats the sound of a compound radial engine. A symphony.
Compound? Nope. You're a few years too early and the radials reliability was pretty shit if the temperature was high or the cowling was too tight. Not to mention what the cowling flaps would do to airflow if they were left open at the wrong time.
Compound engines took those issues and dumped a few afterchargers on there which became known as parts recovery turbines because that's where melted bits of engine turned up.
Oh........the Mustang can start itself without the aid of a ground power cart......and starts easily and the first time. HUGE advantage over the P-47. By the way, what if the P-47 needed to restart it's engine in flight?
air over the prop will spin it in a dive, turning a generator, providing power even if no cylinders are firing.
@@katsu-graphics5634 I'm surprised they haven't modified the restored P-47 because after all....it is a fighter/bomber. It can afford the weight of an onboard battery.
Keep in mind most of the engine parts the 47 uses are over 70 years old, there aren't any producers making new parts for radial engines these days.
During WW2 both engines would have had no problems starting.
@@Tacticaviator7 Oh gosh......I've seen some of these war birds up close and I would venture to say that they are in better shape now then when they rolled off the factory floor. And that's no exaggeration. Ever see Clay Lacy's DC-3 ? I guarantee that it's in better shape than when it rolled off the factory floor. Modern aircraft maintenance is that much better than back in the day. A lot more is understood now. I'm not positive but I think there are guys making parts for these birds. You know, the Reno Race crowd.
The Radials are harder to start but they're also harder to stop. Any amount of damage good enough to turn off a P47's engine has thoroughly killed the pilot already, so the issue is moot.
As sexy as the "Jug" is, I would not be too crazy about owning any temperamental machine that took almost 3 minutes to start!
Notice how easily the British designed Rolls Royce fired up,
compared to the big US designed radial?
Ah, just an Aussie messing with ya!😉
Love both these planes, the Stang's elegance and beauty
and the Jug's raw power combined with that brawler's build
and nasty engine sound.
Great stuff.👍 Thanks
That P47 ....A Beast ..😎 8 x 50 cal.
OK I have a dumb question, authentic planes in the '40s started up quicker, correct?
Hard to tell to be honest…gasoline is of a lower quality now days and back then the electrical power wasn’t what it is now…just have to be quick with the primer and know how much throttle and mixture to use for the particular engine.
My dad was a mech on Corsairs in the 1940's.He said the mechs usually started the planes and warmed them up for the pilots.He said the pilots couldn't get them going as quick as the mechs could.I was a aircraft mech for 40 years in civillian planes,and some were harder to start than others.
My father flew in PBMs which had Wright Cyclone engines. He said they had oil warmers that made starting easier, but it was not like getting into a fuel injected car and driving off.
@@OverTheSun41 so much nope. Its not the quality it's the octane. Engine on that 47 was designed to run on 135/145 octane fuel and the Merlin could run on it too. But its carcinogen in a can and will melt aluminium. The modern stuff is much better and cleaner but it's a lower octane so you either retune the engines or they run like a bag of hammers and can take a bit of winding over to start.
(sigh) The actual engine start is @2:50. You're welcome.
Ada sesuatu tentang bunyi enjin yang dapat mengurangkan kemurungan didalam diri saya.
When I was younger?
I thought the Mustang was so cool for a WW2 fighter. It just looked so great (from the 'D' model forward).
But now?
If I had to choose one or the other to actually fight in?
I would pick the P-47 in a heartbeat (mostly because it's engine was air cooled).
Thanks for this video.
☮
My favorite WW2 plane is the deHaviland Mosquito, the "Wooden Wonder." A plane Goering angrily said the Brits could build in Piano Factories.
Were engines this hard to start during the war?
For a cold start yes. Normally the ground crew would get the plane going for an intercept and would fire the engine up periodically to keep the engine warmed up for faster starts. This is a thing that still goes on today as you want to wait for engine temp and oil pressure to reach optimal levels
@@jayglier cold start back then wasn’t as long as the one in this video. They are 50+ years old now, but you’re right. They weren’t the fastest starting. At least the radial engine.
I wonder what the pilots thought when they transitioned from the 47 to the 51?
Or even the other direction as I imagine there were times where a pilot got reassigned for some reason. It must have been hard to switch either way as they are such different aircraft from their engines, to their airframes, to their tactics.
Doesn't get better than that !
it was a P-47 M actually.
Think this should be, ones that didn't want to start!
Awesome!!
👍👊😎
Gotta love a cold blood smokey old radial. Lol
The Radial Engine NEVER loss his sturbone's temper. "Fuck!....Is WHEN I WNAT!, ..fu...!"
Aesthetically speaking, seeing the thunderbolt to the mustang side by side is like Whoopi Goldberg standing next to Christie Brinkley. Like a Toyota corolla parked next to a Ferrari 458 Italia. Like a Glock 9 mil next to a frickin Light Saber 😉
Please don’t mention that fat obnoxious cow in the same conversation with these iconic airplanes. Thanks
American ingenuity at its finest, before equity and diversity started to be controlling efforts bringing us down! Those be bad mo-fo’s!
Ah, memories of the good old days. When you could strafe farmers in their fields and driving their horse and carts at will. Fun times!
That P-47 just wanted to stay in bed and sleep in. :P
Plenty of oil in those P47 cylinders on start up.
Geez, half the video was cranking the P-47. Due to not priming it enough? Most other war birds with big radials don't take that long. If the engine has got a pre-oiler there's little excuse for almost frying the starter motor.
Whats with the bloke with the finger?? Pilot not knowing how to turn motor over??
It's a way of 2-way communication without using an intercom or radio. It is also a way for the surrounding crew to see and be warned about what is about to happen. (Each flight phase has it's own dangers...)
As said above. The ground crew *should* on a cold start indicate to spin the engine with the other hand raised closed fist to indicate ignition off for either 9 or 12 blades. Then mesh the starter again with the mags set to start - other hand raised palm. The engine fires, set mags to run position and ease the mixture as the engine warms.
The pilot will signal to remove chocks by raising both hands closed fists and extend out horizontally.
Check controls are free and clear (ground locks off), check for the usual idiot wandering around like a headless chicken and off you go. Make sure in the case of an aircraft fitted with a constant speed prop it's set to fine, and set advance and mixture *before* playing with the throttle.
P-47 be thicc, yo.
One mistake made by the military during Korea was they took the p51 over their for ground support by the USAF when they shiuld have used the p47's they could carry more ordinance and had more .50'a for strafing. And could with stand more damage that the p51 bringing the pilot's back to base.
The P51 was an Interceptor, the P47 was a suspiciously-fast Ground Attack craft.
Scramble, Scramble, Scramble! Can you give us ten minutes.
That 47-D doesn’t lend itself to instill a lot of confidence. Took forever to crank up.The glorious P-51:on the the other hand, what a Marvel!
Wow, that took forever to get that bird started. Did they take that long to start up during the war?
No. They are old now, so they take a while. Back then not long, they were new.
Absolutely. They used to have them all fired up the night before and just leave them idling with the ground crew trickling fuel into the tanks to keep them full!
In all seriousness though a pilot and ground crew would know their engine intimately. They would all have their little differences and pilot and mechanic would be able to fire them up pretty quickly. These are 70 - 80 year old engines so they’d be getting a bit cranky by now.
They start much quicker when operated regularly.
It's a shame that the fate of this whole collection is uncertain.
the 47 is flooded idle cutoff full throttle...start...
Hooray for the 🇬🇧
2:50 engine start....don't waste your time watching nothing before that!
P 47 Air cooled radial, P 51 water cooled
I think I'm getting...ummm...excited?
If I can only pick one fighter aircraft to fight world war II with it would have been the thunderbolt I know the Germans didn't respect it because it wasn't elegant like their BF 109 or the spitfire which they admired but at the same time jagdwaffe pilots found themselves frequently and often running out of ammunition trying to shoot down a jug or found their aircraft being blown apart pretty much instantaneously by the 850 caliber machine guns of the P-47 and on the ground panzer divisions found themselves helpless to stop the wrath of a thunderbolt as it shredded infantry and obliterated tanks
As for the escort mission which the Mustang excelled at the P-47 was upgraded so it could do that too and equally importantly you had the p47n which had enough range to escort b-29 superfortresses all the way to Tokyo and still being able to hit almost 470 mph.
In the end usaaf preferred the Mustang because it was $49,000 as opposed to $83,000 for a thunderbolt but frequently and often the thunderbolt would last three or four times as long as a Mustang.
Ironically, the plane the highest American aces got their kills in was the P-38 Lightning, a Twin-Boom Heavy Fighter.
@@thebighurt2495 I meant European theater
Gabreski and Robert s Johnson who shot down 28 and 27(I might be a pinch off on their victory totals) aircraft respectively both flew Thunderbolts
@@jehb8945 Oh, I believe it.
Richard Bong 40 kills (P38 Lightning)
Thomas B. McGuire 38 Kills (P38 Lightning)
David McCampbell 34 (F6F Hellcat)
Francis Gabreski (P47 Thunderbolt)
Robert S. Johnson (P47 Thunderbolt)
Charles H. MacDonald 27 (P38 Lightning)
Turns out we're *both* right.
By the time the P-47's got off the ground the airfield would have been obliterated!
presumably they would start all of them at once rather than one at a time.
Well, Upupa Epops might be the coolest warbird name to say...now I just need to buy a Corsair and name her Uhm Poppa Mow Mow (Mao Mao?)☺️
Jeez...there wouldnt wanna be an air raid.
Fun fact about the P-47.....the engine has 4 banks or basically 4 engines bolted to each other all connected with a single crankshaft. This P-47 if you listened very closely, the rear 2 banks started first