A good JL vs DHIL comparison next MOC. th-cam.com/video/OWRLuKH1edU/w-d-xo.html Another 0 cycle Jingliu with robin and QuidQP Gallagher this 2.4 moc. super gud watch th-cam.com/video/LEVNfQlVMM0/w-d-xo.html
@@oyfum2638 tyty. i think it'll be good informing ppl how well jingliu can perform with a nice set up looks like, esp for ppl who want to replicate that
Jingliu is definitely suffering from a case of "outdated team syndrome". Sure, Bronya and Pela is her BiS, but man it's been her BiS for so long that it's started to become a problem. At the very least DHIL has Sparkle. Even Clara has been getting a bunch of Ws in terms of new teammates; a standard banner 5 star DPS. Even with Yunli's release, it somehow made Clara better because of Yunli's LC.
The best in slot is definitely ruan mei or robin instead of pela, but only because they're amazing general buffers and the margin of increase is definitely not as much as what a lot of newer units get. Not to mention they're much more contested because they're amazing generally
@@yun3_ wait those would both be cool af actually, would balance it out a bit and maybe finally give blade something that other people dont. blade & topaz7th teams have so much SP lying around it would be awesome if we got a support that could actually use those
@@yoisakikanade_ I would'nt even mind if it was like high risk/high reward type of thing where u gotta balance the sp consumption to play optimally. As long as it's worth :)
About the pela, it's a problem with nihility characters. The debuff stays on enemies, and when they act or change waves, the debuff disappears. I think that's why hoyo brought jiaoqiu with the idea of being like Mei, where the field depends entirely on the character and not on the enemies.
@candleplays8030 Except that other teams benefit from RM more. Acherons trace won't be maxed and vulnerability is a rarer stat than dmg bonus so it scales better
I already replied to someone in the comments here with this exact same statement, but I just hope once we get more characters in the future who have similar kits to her and/or Blade, we'll eventually see them (and Luocha) getting the buffs they deserve along with a resurgence in usage again.
they first need to get "their" support that facilitates their playstyle. Hoyo can go so many different routes for this so im very curious on what they do. After that, yah more hp drainers would be cool
@@yun3_ I also forgot to mention but I remember seeing leaks on reddit of two unnamed Destruction units (One is Quantum when the other one is Imaginary) and according to the leaks they both scale off of and consume their own HP just like Blade. I'm probably inhaling copium rn but I think we might eventually see Blade getting the buffs he deserves along with Luocha finding his place in newer teams (also maybe even some potential future Jingliu synergy as well?)
@@yun3_ true! I did see on twitter that in testing, they both use Blade as a base at the moment considering they don't have models for now, and the team used was them + Lingsha + Luocha. I don't think their HP consumption is terribly high to the point they have to use two sustains who already overheal like crazy (I think it's most likely just some of the devs messing around with what they have) but I think this means that Luocha and Lingsha would be their best sustain options. They're also presumably being worked on for 3.x. Also, the leaks are from Ubatcha1 who is generally known to be credible when it comes to leaks most of the time.
I was super excited for sparkle to come out since I thought she was gonna be a great replacement for bronya due to her buff extending to her targets next turn. But nope 😭 so much of her damage increase can come from her skill point use talent and jing liu is the skill point positive queen
@@critanddam9031 The raw amount that sparkle buffs is more than Bronya so that may be why. I think most hyper carry comps rn generally dont run spd and go atk boots besides JL and blade which use bronya instead (though blade def can be used in a sparkle team with hp boots).
What Jingliu needs imo is more sources of DEF Shred since it gets stronger the more you stack it. It's ironic how her best set is the quantum set. A 5* Tingyun will also help extending her uptime. They can even be more demanding of SP since Jingliu herself is already SP efficient.
All the past carries have super limited capabilites because they are only enabled in hypercarry comps with 3 harmony/buffers. Recent characters have been mostly FUA based so they are way more flexible and less sp consumtive by a mile but still did the job done. Jingliu and IL/Blade are still functional but again 0 flexibility
Def shred will help every dps though. There is little Hoyo can do to put JL ahead other dps right now. Unless they release a Furina type unit JL will be mid for now
What's ironic is that whoever can buff Jingliu good to an extent may as well buff other DPS the same, so the difference between them may not change. But I digress, who knows there maybe a specific solution for hypercarries only.
Another comment said this "I think the hope for JL is a support that gives res pen per for crit rate above X and crit damage above Y + some other buff (maybe action advance or something?) for a change in HP of 2 or more allies. " this could def help out a yanKING and jingliu
Skill dmg inc, ice implant, ice dmg inc, additional turn/2x action, dmg inc based on hp drain, def penetration bonus after certain crit rate/dmg thresholds, additional dmg based on current stat, dmg inc stack after being hit, dmg conversion etc etc. I've seen a lot of unique supports from all kinds of gacha, and there's a lot that they can do to improve her kit. Xiao got his unique support with weird ahh plunge atk buff years after his release.
@@LauderIX im just curious on the route the devs take. My bet is honestly single target hp drain. I feel like theycould buff jade, blade, and arlan, with jl missing out a bit
her kit is just too simple, If anything bronya was everything she could've asked for, her weakness has already been covered since her release, compared to any other units who got their best partner later as the game progress
I'd say the current shift may see Jingliu fair better in duo dps teams. Both March and Jade are great examples of characters who can support a main dps, but also serve as a sub dps with the buff(s) they give. With Jade, Blade was able to work in PF, and both March and Jade can be played sp positive too, like Topaz. Having a lack of good support buffs might mean she needs a nihility sub dps or a more general debuffer who can allow her to hit more times in a turn. This is probably why kafka/swan have worked well for so long. They fill in where the other lacks and their best supports can provide team wide buffs like mei, asta and robin. I think with the current set of hypercarries they just need an sp positive support or can fill in where they lack.
from watching gameplay, it was always just gud, not great, which is perfectly fine. fua with robin is just so strong rn, and even more so with feixiao. dot’s ticks just arent enough anymore seeing how fua are doing that much at a higher frequency. imo, the only way to save dot(my friend’s dot team is cooked), is either a tailored dot sustain or a stronger kafka.
Thanks for covering this, now i know why i see that my Jingliu (with every setup possible) was still dealing so little dmg despite having 100% CR and base 255% CDMG. thought i was drunk lol.
Bronya Pro Max will never happen. there will never be another character that 100% action advances using skill. if there is, then both bronya and that character will be able to abuse their skill to max their ult, etc.
I feel like the main problem for her is that she is tied to her mechanics and it goes down on her turns. There is no way you can defeat bosses in 3 to 4 turns. The only other character who has this mechanic is ironically Blade. Since most dps can do damage their high damage and isn’t tied to the turns . This is poorly worded but I hope you can understand. So unless we got Tingyun and Bronya mix as a character she will probably stay the same which is saddening
I gotchu. Either we gotta do a jingillion dmg so she doesnt leave the state, get ult battery so that doesnt happen. Or action advance so it's like she never left. Most dps' now honestly have funny stipulations too. JL, with good uptime, can consistently deal high dmg, while other dps' have honestly worse down time IMO. Ex. break if they arent broken, charging up acheron, and then dot taking its time too. The only team that dont really got "downtime" is Fua and tradional dmg dealers like seele. If they add bronya but energy, us JL mains will be cooking >:)
Can Jingliu still get the job done in end game content? Absolutely! Is it easier or faster than the current top tier dps characters? Probably not but that's ok. The past few MoC turbulence buffs has not been very ideal for Jingliu yet she still performs very well. Obviously she's no longer the cream of the crop but that shouldn't deter players from using her cause she is still the best Ice dps we have in the game currently and with help from possible future supports, she can still be & is still a good option. It's funny that Hoyoverse has yet to release a new 5* Ice dps character since Jingliu way back in 1.4. We have gotten 7 patches without another 5* Ice dps.
I think she will age well which ik is opposite to what ppl say. if a support simply buff dmg bonus or res pen, jingliu already got atk, cr, cdmg covered. But besides more ice dps, I WANT MORE SUPPORTS. pls hoyo. My ruan mei cant take it anymore.
as a Jingliu player who just recently upgraded the team (march 7th hunt and huo huo replacing robin and lynx and tingyun being there) these ared efinetly major issues. however. the teams fun so while it would be nice for a buff, I'm still gonna enjoy playing her and having firefly clean up the rest of moc
I did like the Blade + Jingliu synergy even though it wasn't really truly that great, but now Blade works Better with Jade, which left Jingliu as a complete standalone character.
tbh i can totally see her being buffed with a hsr furina. something like that would be insanely good for jingliu since the one completely unique thing about her is that she drains the whole teams hp
i had to admit, despite my main being JL, i just hate the fact that my e0s0 archeron can output so much more damage with little to no synergy comp, and my Decked out JL comp falls short when compared to, i invested so much into JL and her teams then seeing the dmg output on best case scenarios compared to archeron just simply ulting is heart breaking. truly wish hoyo will release a character that can support JL to her fullest
hopefully yah. i will say while acheron does big screenshot dmg, her actual dmg output overall is fairly close to jl excluding that overkill dmg. if JL is 1+1+1. Acheron is like 3.25 nuke
I saw a video about why JL would inevitably fall off and it makes sense. Her multipliers are just not impressive. Her sheer amount of free stats used to compensate but with all new supports basically being huge upgrades to everybody but her, it's clear that the diminishing returns is catching up with her. And I fear even with new def shred or dmg% buffers, she won't get huge buffs bcs everybody else also benefits immensely from those stats, it's just that JL has to rely on thsoe two stats bcs they're the two that she has the least of. Her pnly chance for a resurgence is new characters playing around with her hp loss (but it's such a small amount of HP drain so it specifically has to be about team HP bcs Arlan, Blade, and the counter girls outclass her in HP draining) that also increase her uptime by a lot
I will say what big multiplier is very subjective. I believe most ppl believe her multipliers and impressive bc they are comparing to say acheron ult, lightning lord, and argenti ult. This damage is super back loaded, so while ex. a ult from them/fua can do 500k, jl can do 2 skills to reach that, while their skills do negligible dmg. I would actually disagree with the next part as she yes this is true while other characters can benifit, it shouldnt be close to what jl can get. This is bc harmony characters rn make up a great part of the DPS' stats rn (robin, sparkle). taking away these buffs and replacing it with say res pen/def shred, bc their base stats are now lower, and instead multiplying a lower number x a new multiplier is not that high bc the bs stats taken away from the base cuz they benefited so much from it. but yah, hopefully hoyo touches up on hp shenanigans
Also saw the MV stuff with Ratio vs JL, the issue with that is that Ratio does not have downtime, while JL does. Her multipliers would be good if she always had them but she is a damage window based DPS, meaning we have to consider her uptime but also the fact we need to also consider buff uptime on her. Bronya is her best support bcs she doubles her uptime but even Bronya has some anti-synergy with her 100% AA
thats super fair. I will say I do believe that potentially down time actually equal our to ratio dmg. Though I dont know how much or if thats even the case if the down time is horrendous without bronya and exlucding tingun too
Skill dmg inc, ice implant, ice dmg inc, additional turn/2x action, dmg inc based on hp drain, def penetration bonus after certain crit rate/dmg thresholds, additional dmg based on current stat, dmg inc stack after being hit, dmg conversion etc etc. I've seen a lot of unique supports from all kinds of gacha, and there's a lot that they can do to improve her kit. Xiao got his unique support with weird ahh plunge atk buff years after his release. If devs want to make it work, they can make it work.
I personally think theyll go the hp drain route to bring back power to said units and abundance units. maybe a single target one tho to help blade, arlan, and jade, so maybe jl wont be helped much
Jingliu has way too many anti synergies. Too many action advances to buff her, hp drain so no using the preservation path and too many self buffs so there's low multipliers
funny enough, the first time MOC released without ice weaknesses, there has been a boatload of posts of JL mains claiming she's so OP she can bruteforce off element, whereas other dps mains (especially kafka/blade/JingYuan) have been bruteforcing off element.
One of Boothill's best teammate is also Bronya where he can only use 33% of her kit, only the 100% action advance and the new break relic sets were just niche for firefly and the break sustains are all fire element 💀 Boothill is still doing good because his scaling is really high and he scales on enemy toughness but if we get a harmony support with 100% action advance and lets character ignore def or res pen i will be really happy, that character will be broken for Jingliu and Boothill. Jingliu will probably appreciate def ignore or res pen more too because of her huge self buffs with attack and crit
i love bronya and she has carried me since 1.4, but i honestly dont mind if she gets replaced. cuz even if she does get pwr creeped, she’ll def still be usable
It’s all up to hoyo, will they ever make another skill damage waifu they want to sell well, and that THEY themself care enough for to give a dedicated set and new strong support to so that JL can actually make use of these? Probably but they are too busy with Da Wei’s favorite archetype (FUA) and break rn, maybe once these are done they go back to some other basic forms of damage again.
Great Video! I haven't watched your pinned comparison to DHIL vs JL yet but I am glad more people are bringing up the fact that JL is slowly falling behind, not bad by any means but nor is she likely to ever be queen again. I'll probably have a slightly different opinion once I see the comparison to DHIL but I can't say I like Prydwen putting him in the same tier when he I would argue has more vertical investment than JL does and has a new and better team than she does. Plus if we ever get a 5 Star Tingyun that really cranks up the energy back with ult then he along with other Hyper carries will be eating good! But for both of them they desperately need new 4pc set bonuses because both of them are basically rocking 1.0 sets when were well into 2.0 already. DHIL could use one based on basics and spent SP while JL could use one similar to say Blade where HP loss gives a buff but doesn't have the odd HP% buff his does for him.
I and others are still waiting for our Hsr equivalent of furina. if they do that, JL right to the top >:) but yah, i really want new sets soon at least. they could just add JL lc to a relic set if they really wanted
@@yun3_ they honestly could. I've been holding off on farming his set too much because it's such a basic set. I think it'd bump them up a tier given how strong the newer sets get.
She just doesn’t fit well with modern supports due to how her kit works, low multiplier but high self buff, that’s the sole problem. She’s stuck with the exact same team, while older units like Seele, Jingyuan, and Clara gets better teammate like Sparkle and Robin, they are noticably better each patch because of this. Honestly if a character have good synergy with Robin they are instantly a better character than Jingliu already. She can use Robin too btw, you could probably get better results with Robin than Ruanmei because she’s just that broken, but she’s not getting as much benefit from Robin as other dps would due to stats diminishing returns. Also Sp problem can be a pain depending on your sustains in those teams.
u gotta check the link in the pinned comment. The dude does a 0 cycle with JL with robin this MoC and it goes hard. I mentioned that the self buffs goes 2 ways. While many are acknowledging how it can harm her potential as she would gain less from subsequent buffs, it actually helps if a new harmony say focused solely on res pen. If that's the case, then JL with cr,cdmg,atk, and dmg bonus already gud, she's vibing and can fully benefit while other characters will still need to get those stats
The problem with JL scaling isn't related to multipliers but how it works with relic sets, because of how much crit rate she gains you don't want crit rate past 50% meaning that really quickly you get a useless stat and you care only about crit dmg and attack, but she also gains a ton of attack so really you only care about crit dmg that means you will have a much harder time gaining dmg upgrades from relics vs most other dps in the game. That adds up with the issues you point out about team options. I feel JL won't get a proper support for her (a better Bronya) because they already put out Sparkle and creating a unit that buffs base on their own turns instead of the dps and have 100% action advance is not going to happen, and if it happens will make all hypercarry or even dual dps team stronger so the position of JL teams will basically not change at all.
I agree with mostly everything but would disagree with the end part. Most hypercarrys RN I would say are running atk boots and sparkle to make up the speed. JL i would say is the only hyper carry dps that actually runs Spd boots currently bc of bronya. If a bronya pro were to be released, I would like to assume that characters such as DHIL and JY woud still be going sparkle. Blade, Seele, and Blade could actually benefit for this seeing how they consume less sp and could as such work better (ik seele uses a lot but if her basic kills, thats a nice refund). This is just my pov tho
Fun Fact, At No Traces or Light Cones, Firefly has the highest Def in game & Jingliu has the 2nd highest HP behind Fu Xuan, so, they're actually the core definition of Bruisers (which this game doesn't care about) but we want to nuke or quick kill with them which FF easily achieves with BiS team(can get better), relics, SB dmg n Self Implant & JL struggles as she has nothing of these for her. A unit that can help with her style wud be a Harmony/Abundance that tallies HP changes for the entire team(in no. of stacks not ratio) & provides buff that expires in her turn.
I love how tanky JL is cuz other dps’ like jingyuan or herta from my experience are literal marshmallows. I also go sustainless for my ff break and its so nice putting her in the middle cuz she literally cannot die and is like a psuedo preservation. idk but i stg the only target her sometimes. that would be pretty nice but they gotta be strong enough to somehow either replace robin or bronya rn
I do not actually mind Jingliu, and would certainly never call her "weak". Yes, she isn't the best at the moment, however she tends to reach the required benchmarks fairly painlessly on hitting ice-weak enemies. At least in MoC.
agreed. she her self is not weak but her team currently is. We can see how even with multiple just "gud" units like Fua, combine them together, and now u got the best time in game (imo)
I'm commenting a bit late from the video since I just saw it pop up in my feed. Jingliu fas fallen off and it's not an overstatement to say that she is no where near the ballpark we need her to be. A lot of individuals who've tried to say that she hasn't fallen off has always told me that it's not Jingliu who's bad, it's that she doesn't do enough damage. These exact individuals continue to say that she can still be used and I totally agree since you can still 0-Cycle or whatever. Bros are legit countering their own arguments at that point. This exactly sums up my point, this video explains a lot of the problems that I've tried to get across with multiple people. I'm glad I encountered this now.
so like jl as a solo character is much stronger than most of our other dps’. the issue is that doesnt matter cuz the whole of a team is much more important. when we see where pela, bronya, and whichever sustain you choose, they aren’t even above t1 anymore. still gud, but no robin/aventurine for fua for example. i do believe jl rn is not in the best spot rn in the same manner as blade, as just no dedicated support yet imo
@@yun3_ I would really love to Jingliu & Blade again in MoC since they are my first DPS I pulled. Favoritism at it's finest lol. I'll be using them when Feixiao comes out... If you know, you know.
So I think the best way to buff Jingliu would be a full team revamp, and these are my ideas for three teammates that I believe would all function with other characters but would completely shine when paired with each other and Jingliu. Ice - Abundance Skill applies a healing over time to all characters where when a character gains health they also gain some energy that increases with the amount the character heals by (doesn't work when full HP) this energy gain doesn't apply to the healer, their ultimate gives a large heal to all characters and this heal does allow for overhealing to count for the energy regeneration. Ice - Harmony Applies a team wide buff that ticks down on this characters turn, the buff makes it so when a character's HP increases or decreases that character gains a stacking Speed and Res ignore buff, the ultimate for this character adds an additional boost with this buff for a couple turns that increases the energy gained based on the number of stacks you have, only the Res ignore applies to this character (and at half the rate too) Ice - Nihility Skill applies a debuff to enemies that shreds defense (Frozen enemies have extra defense shredded) this debuff also makes all Ice damge attacks have a small chance to freeze the enemy, ultimate applies Ice weakness to all enemies on the field and increases the weakness break efficiency of all teammates.
The first one sounds super nice for blade, but may not work too well with JL cuz she dont drain her hp. But if ur intention is her batterying her teamates (like a ty), then thats big brain af. The second idea sounds rly nice for firefly xd the last idea just sounds cool. Though idk how gud it would be against bosses cuz they refuse to freeze imo lol.
The closest thing we got to a " perfect" support is robin, robin gives dmg % buff on her turn not jingliu's so it wont dissapear fast, an ult that matches perfectly for her playstyle. Once we get a new planar or relic set she might be usable again.
i think to make robin even better of a support to jl, wish the ult didnt give atk. though i understand how op it is for literally anyone else but her and balde
I'm not a meta guy, I just use whoever counters the type-weakness, or use Firefly if I'm going in blind like story mode. So I still use Jingliu if there are enough ice-weak enemies because my other ice characters have low traces or mid relics. But I'm still waiting for HSR Furina that buffs hp-loss characters, it's going to happen if they keep dropping like a dozen 5-stars every year.
based :) i just use whatever team atm that clears the divergent uni/relic domains fastest for me. It was JL for like the past half year for me, but now firefly. Though I must say i cant wait for a furina like character
Like master like student, both blade and jingliyu got the same fate Hey at least maybe they will got their dedecated support in the future like aventurine robin or HMC
i can see a limited 5 star energy char to be good for her as well for sygyzy more enhanced skill uptime, like how argenti is waiting for it doesnt help that the only energy support tingyun atk buffs are not as good with her like a critdamage+energy limited support crit rate overflow is also good for them yea, either in a support but more realistically also a harmony it could also be a "crit twice" type of thing where crit rate above 100% gets converted to another chance to proc a "super crit" (crit damage multiplied together) crit rate based harmony that buffs crit rate of allys and does one of the two things huohuo probably isnt that bad of a support healer tbh for energy gen, even if atk buffs are less efficent
energy would indeed be so nice, but hoyo gotta do it someway to make it not just OP for like every character in the game. Using tingyun and bronya is so hard to do cuz I gotta spam the frik outta tingyun or else no buff, and then my sp just dies. honestly i would love a energy/ res pen support cuz thatll benifit JL more than other characters. doing a "super crit" would also be rly cool which could also maybe let yanqing shine seeing how has waaayyy to much cr.
The only thing that can buff Jingliu is if Hoyo releases a new character that can consume ally's HP like Jingliu in the future. The same mechanic will make Hoyo buff characters who have the same mechanic such as kafka w/ DoT, Topaz w/ FUA and HMC w/ Superbreak through relics, planars, or even specific new characters.
@@bingbongbg th-cam.com/video/LEVNfQlVMM0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=OYFUM this guy is using ur team but goes crazy. 0 cycle with a sustain. Using quid pro quo to battery Robin.
With the last few videos, I was expecting you to say something about Jiaoqiu's potential to be a Much better Pela for JL. Chances are, He'll be one of JL's best teammates, and with Sparkle, He might even contirbute some damage!
Though i didnt say that in the vid, ur def right if ur wanting to replace pela. but his competition is ruan mei as well. I believe at e0s0, ruan mei wins, but at e1s1, JQ is = to RM e1s1 dmg wise(excluding the utility)
@@yun3_ JQ's personal damage doesn't make up for the Utility? There's also the option of replacing Pela/Broyna with JQ/RM and forgoing an Action advance entirely... But I don't even have Jingliu so Idk. Just tryna add to the convo I guess
@@nkosiezikalala5267oh it can make up for the utility but itll just depend on how u build him i believe. + he can damage the toughness bar a lot more than rm, though yk balanced by rm break efficiency. also np. so when u go the slow route/no AA, u really need tingyun to stay in the enhanced state. but once ur out of it, ur cooked 😢
I've been feeling like Bronya is good with Jingliu, but also not good enough. I remember going against Aventurine MoC 12 using Jingliu, Bronya, Pela, Huo Huo. Cleared in like average of 6 cycles. Then I tried runs where I replaced Bronya with Tingyun e6 and then Hanya e6 and I cleared in 5 cycles. Hanya was kinda a niche scenario where she was better, but generally I feel like Tingyun with DDD is better. Bronya only buffing half of Jingliu's damage while also giving more SP issues is pretty annoying. The best thing for Jingliu imo would be Bronya+Tingyun in one character. Has an advance forward plus energy buff. Though that would be good for a lot of hypercarries, they could balance it to where they need more SP so not every hyper carry can use them.
Yah and that could help out blade a lot. I'm actually hoping they'll add something along the lines of giving energy regen instead of just flat energy. So that may help characters hit new thresholds, cuz being at 135/140 energy 😊🔫
@@yun3_ True. I was also thinking the harmony character could be like DHIL where you can use their skill multiple times to give additional buffs. So having a team with an influx of SP or DPS that use low SP would get buffed more than others.
@@bromegaman5962 I read something like that way long ago and it's been in the back of my mind. I think low sp usage could def be its own niche with a support like that + that could help arlan too :)
@@yun3_ Yeah either that or an HP manipulation team. We have gotten a lot more characters lately that change their/teams HP. Firefly, Jade and Yun Li back to back. Plus Jingliu, Blade and Arlan from before. It would be cool to get a character that benefits from the team hurting themselves 😂
my main issue is never being able to use ruan mei with jingliu since ruan mei is 100% necessary for firefly, though this is my fault for pulling firefly as a jingliu main, i would really like a new character who can synergize with jingliu cuz its getting increasingly hard to 3 star moc with her now. also ive actually been using aventurine as my sustain for jingliu which i know most would be opposed to but since his shields are so thick i never really need to restore the hp lost with her ability and his crit dmg buffs are nice
I assume sunday may come back and is hopefully a hypercarry support who can help out JL. but if u cant wait that long, i would honestly rly rly recommend trying to get robin if u want a JL support. I just got e1s1 and can say she is even better than e1s1 ruan mei. the only caveat is you NEED to use quid pro quo gallagher on that team. against this kafka rn, i end at the end of3 cycles with Ruan mei and nearly 0 with robin
@@yun3_ oh yeah i had my eyes set on the robin rerun, sucks cuz i actually want the new character but i cant realistically get both of them so ill simply push for robin
Okay it seems ppl are alr arguing about Robin being jl’s best teammate (which I agree with). Let me be the one to actually put in evidence as Robin is the only character that is able to make jl 0 cycle with sustain (showcase is up on my channel). And not even Ruan Mei at E1S1 can do this.
@@oyfum2638 watched both gameplays, super super impressive. u got ur shit figured out to a T. I think I was 3 cycling last moc using JL, luocha, bronya, and pela which aint too shabby. I will say the only draw is I think i need Gallagher for the sp and need to be 0 cycling for it to be rly gud. if ur robin buffs run out too early, it’s cooked for a cycle basically. but super super high ceiling tho
@@yun3_ yeah, Gallagher holding qpq is the key to making this team work. Sp + battery for Robin, basically making Robin’s downtime nonexistent which is insanely broken.
@@oyfum2638 OOH. that makes so much sense. i was like robin ult again? thats a pretty goated set up and with this, that i can def see her being jingliu’s second best partner. we still need a bropro max and maybe a new sustain, but who knows, ur gallagher battery seems great
I think the hope for JL is a support that gives res pen per for crit rate above X and crit damage above Y + some other buff (maybe action advance or something?) for a change in HP of 2 or more allies. If it isn’t something THAT specific, the new character will be OP for everyone, and JL will still be stuck behind the pack.
Nothing will stop me from pulling for her. I was so stupid to not pull on her rerun and like i really want her to work alongside my Blade amd i love her EN VA
Finally someone understands the problems. I wish hoyo could make more use of her hp drain too. The only one who uses it is Blade and it isn't great compared to newer synergies. Like a lot people have mentioned a HSR Furina like character would be great. Also better sets for her would be great. But at the end of the day time would tell if she could have a strong comeback or get destroyed by the passage of time.
there are many interesting ideas on how to buff her that ive heard. Some nice ones were ones dealing with sp as her and blade use less and other carries who rely on it probs cant use it too well. Also just skill damage/basic dmg enhancers. But something dealing with hp also would be really nice. But ur right, only time will tell if JL and balde get treated well
she doesn't even have a signature/bis set. dhil has the same issue, but sparkle really helped him okay comparing pela to an e1s1 ruanmei is a bit of a stretch, but i agree that pela has been lacking
i honestly don’t even mind farming a new set for jl if it means more dmg. but yeah vs e1s1 rm def ain’t fair, but seeing how robin is JL’s potential bis there, 😞
The way I see it, Jingliu is like a ticking time bomb who's destined to be an eternal T0 unit by the time a proper BiS relic or a support unit which covers her downtime, is released for her. A character with a massive CR, Atk boost (as well as her Def shred from her LC) will never be obsolete, so her going downhill right now never really worries me to say the least. I still use her a lot to 12 star contents in the game but I seriously hate how Hoyo refuses to give her a proper unit to increase her overall useability. All we need is just one unit that caters to her needs and it will change everything. Ratio had Topaz and Robin, DHIL had Sparkle, Acheron is backloaded with multitude of nihilty units to choose from, Firefly had so much Break effect units to also choose from and for us JL mains, what do we fcking get? It's just all Bronya, Ruan Mei and one healer (Huo Huo being the best) is just all we have 😂😂😂😂
agreed. if we just break everyone down into just numbers, the undisputed best is Acheron and Jingliu. their self buffs and multipliers are simply just higher than everyone elses. with jl covering atk, cr, cdmg. she only needs a buffer that supports res pen, dmg% or just more crit +fixing downtime to just make her great. have the support just eat up more sp to grant more buffs😤
0:38 true, if someone sees actual DoT raw dps comparison against other arquetypes like acheron, break or IPC FuA, DoT actually looks pretty lackluster It isn't bad by any means, and I think kafka and black swan have a pretty good looking future since ruan mei and huo huo aren't strictly made for DoT, but there is no doubt that that arquetype is probably the most overrated of the game
@Yawar25 Depends on the content. They're both exceptional units. On paper Robin should be better with Herta and Himeko in PF, but I've found that those two units don't need forwarding, and their FUA damage is already high enough to clear, so what they really want is more breaks for Himeko, so Ruan Mei pulls ahead.
As time goes on , i always find myself have harder time playing old traditional crit dps . My IL used to be the one carry me through 2-3 moc , now i need a lot more effort to clear with him , even only with 5 cycles. It's funny that , IL do 200-300k back then is consider broken but now people expect more than double that number for newer dps lol
And like in all honesty, that dmg is still very impressive. I think it's literally just acheron and her overkill dmg against 5 targets screwing people's perception. hitting 1mil+ while the effective dmg is more so like 600k
I'm surprised you didn't mention her skill point positivity. Part of the reason others like DHIL had better damage was because they were so skill point hungry, but with Sparkle that got much less of a cost. Now, while that does allow Bronya to be as skill point hungry as she has always been, I think Jingliu really needs more supports that are skill point negative as a cost, otherwise its not really making much use of that skill point neutrality. Both Luocha and Pela and Ruan Mei are all INCREDIBLY skill point positive, when a theoretical strength is Jingliu can run better-but-higher-point-cost buffers.
yes ur right. her dmg per sp is probs the highest (not u acheron, u dont count). the issue is most ppl dont even care for sp and would probs just say “use sparkle or gallagher lol” but i def agree with u
Jingliu needs a support unit that has the same Bronya's 100% av forward but has buffs or debuffs that are tied with their turn. Doesn't matter if they're harmony or nihility but Jingliu needs a better support than Bronya because like you said, she can't take advantage of Bronya's buffs 100% of the time. For Dhil, I mean he has Sparkle, but e0 Dr. Ratio can perform just as well as e2 Dhil. There's a reason that most of the showcases are e2 dhil.
0:39 Kafka and BS still can brutforce 99% of the content (if not 100%). On Prydwen - tiers 0 - 0,5 is brutforceing machines, and 1 - 2 is meta. Jingliu is a very good characters, but few last pathes she cant just brutforce. Thats all. Obviously, this prydwen tierlist is pretty strange, looks like they itself dont understand what they doing and for who. Yes, jingliu mainers, jingliu dont die, shes OK! She meta. But Ratio difenetly over rated only because Follow-up team.
Most gameplay with well invested BS+Kafka mains can barely 5 cycle the first half of the MoC rn. the only well performing team for the endgame modes is the dotAcheron team, but that doesnt count. The DOT modifiers really influenced the perception of dot imo
@@yun3_ Theres alot of 3-4 cycles clears with the first half of DOT besides that just flavour of the month, I wouldn't move a team down because one MOC specifically doesn't catter to them
@@aba7968 i gotchu. if we were to compare to the RRAT team which it also doesnt favor all that much first half, the results are generally quite better. Even my jingliu is finishing in 3 cycles, with the crazy robin ones able to finish in 0 with a sustain. that's my reasoning, though I understand if a dotcheron finishes well, but that's just acheron at that point imo
@@yun3_ From my experience unless your Acheron is E0S1 it's better just to stick to DOT teams with buffers like ruan mei and robin, plus GNSW is really good on both Kafka and Acheron if you don't have their sig so there isn't really room for sharing. As for the RRAT team I do have both of these premium comps at E0S0 for comparison and I think the results are quite similar and maybe slightly more favored to DOT, I feel like part of the reason is that RRAT is more heavily reliant on vertical investement since Ratio loves debuff and at a f2p investement that comp will notice a bigger dip in damage ceiling. I don't have DHIL so I can't make a straight comparison with other 1.X units but JL even with her sig isn't performing better than my DOT team. I think T0.5 is still a fair placement for them even if they didn't receive any support (from relics and new characters) for a while
What threw Jingliu off meta is more to do with her lackluster base damage compared to the alternatives. Acheron can do an average 600k per ultimate, and regenerate the ultimate pretty quickly. At the peak, the number can go north of 1 million, even 1.5 on a good roll of the buffs. Break heroes like Boothill and Firefly can also trigger 400k+ or more, and you can easily speed them up and give them turns. Jingliu, at her best attempt, does 250k, and that is just unsalvageable in today's meta. Her only redeeming quality is that she can use the path of Rememberance.
yah thats fair, though i must say boothill is not hitting that much, and is closer to 150-300k, idk it really varies based on the boss. 250k skill may may not seem like a lot but sheer amount of times she does it can make up the damage. with it not relying in break, it is also fairly consistent :)
"Why Jingliu is weak right now" Cause we are in the introductory of BE gameplay and BE units , and every patch now centralizes on BE. And it's also because the latest patches does not favor her kits and gameplay. Lastly, this is a gacha game. It's that simple. Edit: Just cleared Apocalyptic Shadows recently with JL and Blade, 4 stages, 3-star all of them. I used the usual unlimited-blade-works-JL lineup (JL, Tingyun, Blade, and Huohuo). Just as I said; it will only depend on the patch and the given stages and their buffs.
yep that's true. But as we've seen with FUA, they can just brute force it now bc their team is just that good. If JL or blade were to get their supports, I wouldn't be surprised if they were to rise to the top
Nice video, i usually use Jingliu ER rope, Tingyun HuoHuo and RM. I getthis team earlier, then i got my first Bronya (2.2 btw💀) so i like this HyperEnergy team. Sometimes she never uses her basic atacks.
I think at higher JQ investment like e1s1, he will def be able to sidegrade maybe, even be better than e1s1 rm ruan mei from the personal math ive done(though i could be wrong)
@@monbebehere1607 Hello. I'm just gonna talk about a raw scenario for a in theory average character. so s1, is just a 18% vulnerability so a 18% raw damage increase, and with 60 ehr, it really helps building JQ much easier. besides that, compared to e1 with 40% dmg bonus is it better. Assuming u got 2500 atk, 100 200 ratio < those dont matter. but 43.3 elemental damage cuz the orb with no external buffers rn (the increase will be lower the more u got), but going from 43 >83 dmg bonus will be a 27% dmg increase. so tldr, e1 :) hope that helps
@@yun3_ ok thanks! I was tempted to get e1 as I plan to use him with all 3 of my mains since he seems good there. Acheron Kafka and ratio but wasn’t to sure yet lol
You're insane if you think DOT should be moved down a tier. Ever since BS came out, they've been top tier and remain great to this day. Hell, you can even run them with Acheron and brute force any content. I agree with your thoughts on Jingliu however. She has been feeling quite underwhelming in comparison to newer characters even with S1 as she needs a buffer that works with her full kit that isn't Ruan Mei.
they call me a madman. lol but in all seriousness, i personally dont believe dot is strong rn, even though they can clear moc, imo honestly weaker than jingliu, ik ik blasphemy. their damage output simply is lower than the other top tier teams rn clearing generally the first half in 4-5 cycles, while top tier teams are doing that in 1-3 👍 hopefully a nice support soon tho
I think only really in 4+ enemy situations ngl. Acheron does a LOT of over kill damage, and when its only against like 2 elites or a boss + elite, her damage is on par with JL and the other dps’
Acheron does have a lot of ramp up time though, and like yun said, she also does a lot of overkill damage. Why spend multiple turns building up to a million damage when you only need half that to clear all the enemies? It's why Acheron somewhat falls off in PF, if not for being carried by the likes of Kafka and BS.
@@peterbabicki8252she also ends up struggling in single target since there are way less debuff opportunities that way and less energy regen for the team.
@@yun3_also in my honest opinion if I may add, E0S0 Acheron doesn’t belong in T0, leave that spot empty at this point, her LC is extremely valuable that if someone has the pulls to get her but not her LC, I say just get FF or some other future waifu hoyo decides to feed steroids to.
Lmao this is so sad because I purposely pulled JL for meta (I have the complete High Cloud Quintet btw, I have not touched or used any of the destruction characters besides Clara and FF, and my DHIL relics when to my Hunt March 7th lolz) and kinda funny because out of all the HCQ, Jing Yuan basically gets lowkey buffed almost every other update 😭😭😭 we all know who the favorite son in HSR is... (he doesn't do an insane amount of dmg but still, he became more viable as time goes on especially with FuA meta rn).
i think as soon an any supports come to help out our xianzhou 5*, theyll be fine. cuz imma be honest, having a jingyuan is not it oh the enemy is lightning weak. who wins? JL or Jingyuan. Jingliu lol. oh the moc enemy is gepard or yanqing. who wins? JL or Jingyuan. Jingliu again silly. (i have e1 jl) i use a ruan mei for jingyuan cuz i dont have sparkle. but the fact even now he clears the first side of the moc THAT IS LIGHTNING weak slower than my jing liu 🫠🔫. and he got a 4 piece set
@@yun3_ lmao I have Robin, Sparkle, and Huohuo so my JY is pretty much doing good especially PF so... 😂😂😂 I was lucky enough to get all of the current Harmony characters
man i got jingliu on her return and skipped aventurine for her, but as the game progressed i feel like they only used jingliu as like....bait. they make people summon for jingliu cuz she looks cool and is also easy to build, but gave her no teammates at all, treating her like a unit that people can use to pass through the easy content faster great video btw, your 555th subscriber. GOOD JOB MAN
Iooking at the warp data from just star rail station, Aventurine was around 80% of the pulls during JL rerun, but I can def see how it baited some ppl so to speak. TYTY. 555 is a pretty nice number
hypercarry DPSs just aint doing too hot in general exception being Acheron(unfair comparison) and FFs super break team and even that technically isnt a hypercarry team, it just follows the format
why would kafka or black swan ever be moved? theyre both enablers. Kafka allows anyone dot character to actual function, she has followup and aoe ult. Her speed and dentonating dots is insane. Blackswan works for both dot and acheron, she has a unique talent and debuff, why would they ever move lol, theyre both the best at what they do currently and cant be replaced with no one having the same/similar kits?
So kafka is the enabler and I honestly don't know if that would change soon, with black swan being replaceable by a new dot unit with just higher multipliers. So while they indeed can bring a whole new playstyle and the best at what they do rn, in the end, it just comes down to damage. for example, If the FUA RRAT team being as cool as it is, if it just lost 20-30% dmg, then as fun as it is, it just wouldn't be performing too well and be a turn off for many ppl. While DOT with kafka and swan can clear pretty well, it's generally around 5 cycles this patch from all the vids I've seen. While that is gud, the other "gud" units are clearing in 0-3 cycles. I'm down to further discuss if u'd like :) this is ofc just my opinion
I think I respectfully disagree. Dotcheron is still very strong within the meta especially during the first phase of moc 12. You can say that it will be outshone by jaoqiu but he hasn’t released yet and it doesn’t take away what they can do. In addition, while prudent does not take into account sig lc’s I feel at this point they unconsciously do cause fua without sig is just not that consistent (I have swordplay on topaz and cruising on ratio and it’s actually pain (not to mention that comp NEEDS robin and adventurine ). Whereas with e1 black swan without lightcone (e0s0 Kafka) it’s perma uptime Ryan Mei ult and that cossts less than topaz and ratio sig. Thats not to mention that she’s great for counterattacks (go see gacha smack black swan with yunli). And I remember people arguing that Kafka deserved higher because she’s assured in the future more but I feel more about that for dot cause the moment we get a dot oriented amp and sustain I can’t see how it’s not outright beating ratio and topaz if not at least on par (keep in mind everything else I have said still applies)
@@kevalpatel2006 ur right. i do believe in another comment they mentioned this too how prydwen does e0s0, which fua 100% starts performing less than the spot i would place them in. i while understand why they do no lc, think its also like misleading at times cuz it greatly impacts performance for some and not others. ex, if i were take this to the extreme like some ppl, i could say boothil is t0 while everyone else is t3, IF the comparison was 0 lightcones at all. and IK acheron at this current point should not be up there if she is e0s0 -_- i dislike how ppl think future proof should be accounted cuz if that was the case, topaz would’ve never been a low tier chatter according to their tier lists. Fua rn has their full premium team. Dot has kafka, BS, and usually Rm/jq now, and huohuo. so unless dot gets like a t0 sustain that is just insane, fua will just be dealing more damage than dot at e0s1 by a decent margin imo appreciate the discussion :)
That's the wrong way to think about it imo, Vulnerability and Def shred are separate multipliers so you want both on the same team. The only exception is S1+ Black Swan who gets close to the 100% Def Down cap with 89.6% in her kit. Jiaoqiu will have some synergy with Guinaifen, not as an amplifier but as a DoT unit. Guinaifen's Ult retriggers all Burns, which includes Jiaoqiu's. Also Gui takes too long to ramp up her Vulnerability so the two of them don't really pair that well for general DPS.
Vulnerability is rly gud but doesnt get better the more u stack like def shred. But until 85%ish def shred, vulnerability is better. u def can put Jiaoqiu in the same team to buff ur dps, but u may be better off switching out guiniafen for a 5* harmony just bc they are currently buffing so much👍
I feel like, it won't fix any issue to have a new team member dedicated to Jingliu. Because Jingliu is a design from the PEAK of hypercarry era. Every support that would buff Jingliu would buff absolutely everyone and their mother the same way, so the overall improvement of every team will only go up. A 100% AA, with a buff that is tied to their own turn would be extermely beneficial to every unit that wants both bronya or sparkle as of today. So unless they create something that interacts directly with Jingliu's mechanics (Ex: her generation of stacks for transmigration) or change game mechanics that would break the rules of the game (Ex: 100% cap crit rate like you mentionned). The core issue of Jingliu is her downtime, her oversaturation on stats and the wanky timing/rotation where you need to use your ult in. And especially with newer bosses such as Aventurine, every new boss who can tempo a few turn by turning invincible will hurt Jingliu's viability even more.
A very strong hp draining support can certainly buff up our currently not too well performing destruction character like blade and arlan too. What ur saying def is true as a op generalist support for JL will be also pretty op for most of her competition. My only thing I will say is that the type of buff granted will greatly impact this. Our dps units simply lack raw stats compared to JL which harmony units easily make up for and more. If this was res pen, where damage is amped greatly on ur raw stats and multipliers, JL would actually benifit more, as JL is not getting too much from our current harmony supports rn with atk/crit. i dont know how one would fix her downtime besides turn manipulation or energy ngl
@@yun3_ very true. Maybe Jiaoqiu will be a better amp or equivalent than Ruan Mei since he can benefit from the skill point economy and apply more vulnerability value than pela's def shred with pearl. A HP draining or AA for enemies would be a very fun and unique buffer/Nihility unit, not gonna lie. -Spoiler- A buffer who uses the Lupinotoxin to inflict blood rage on enemies and or allies, while reducing their HP for increased speed/AA every action.
I remember xgosolo releasing that vid and he got so much hate for it 🤣people said that it was because of the enemies being resistant to ice and stuff but no, the fact is she hasnt gotten any new characters or relics to keep her relevant. While dhil also fell off he at least got a dedicated buffer that allowed him to keep up with jingliu. Jingliu is the type of character to do everything herself, and her kit doesn't have anything that can synergize or any mistakes for buffers to fix that only apply to her
I actually enjoyed watching his jingliu video. But i could understand how it could piss ppl off cuz the delivery, but I personally thought it was funny.
jingliu’s downfall is so sad to me not only cause she’s my favorite character and has my favorite design and lore (alongside firefly) but she’s also the character i’ve put the most time, money and effort into, like pulling her lightcone, failing to get her E1 2 times, getting ruan mei and huohuo just for her and even some decent relics from that hellish glacial forest set. it’s so fascinating seeing moc 10 run from when it was still considered the “hardest difficulty” and the general mentality of the community was “pull whoever you want the game is easy anyway” and seeing jingliu absolutely SHRED through every enemy, like one enhanced skill and all 3 enemies were dead and even when 1.6 came out and brought along moc 12 she was still able able to very comfortably 0 cycle or at worst 1-2 cycle content even non ice-weak one so comparing it to now where with the exact same investment as before she barely scratches the enemy’s hp in only the spam of a few months is just baffling and i guess you could blame it on hoyoverse constantly gigabuffing enemy’s HP but it’s also the fact that she just doesn’t have any good teammates so her damage ceiling is much much MUCH lower compare to other dps of her time like jing yuan or dhil (blade was always weak so i don’t count him) who got buffed immensely with newer supports. i think if we got a furina “expy” in hsr like a harmony support that increases crit dmg/dmg percentage, energy and maybe even incoming healing bonus based on the hp you lost or gained while also being sp positive it would HUGELY benefit her and even make luocha better since his overhealing would actually help the teams damage output. also something that wasn’t mentioned in the video but as someone who uses jingliu in every moc cycle cause my only other well built dps is firefly, her gimmick of eating away your teammates HP is working very badly against her in recent moc. before that 4% hp drain didn’t feel like a lot cause enemies didn’t hit as hard so you could just heal it back off but because enemies now deal a million damage and attack very frequently having that extra 4% hp drain on ALL teammates except jingliu when everyone is already on the brink of death feels absolutely horrible and very risky to play, not even my best healers are able to keep up with the amount of damage taken nowadays luocha and huohuo struggle to keep my team healthy now even tho they’re my best built units. it wouldn’t be a problem if i was using a preservation unit like aventurine since he could just block off the damage taken but jingliu has anti-synergy with preservation so… what now. i really think jingliu was set up from the start by hoyoverse, from her self buffs not being enough to compensate her multipliers and also leading to diminishing return with atk and crit rate buffs buffs and her action forward abilities and multiple actions making buffs relient on her turn run out faster down to the fact her team wide hp drain is a detriment in new moc and having anti-synergy with preservation units and every new support. RIP jingliu, once considered the goddess of brute force quickly became an unfortunate victim of powercreep, i’ll still continue to use her in every new content until it’s practically impossible and pull new supports to try to make her better but it is impossible to deny she fell off. bad.
I just hope once we get more characters in the future who have similar kits to her or Blade, we'll eventually see them (and Luocha) getting the buffs they deserve along with a resurgence in usage again.
"now where with the exact same investment as before she barely scratches the enemy’s hp in only the spam of a few months is just baffling" realest shit ever
@@yun3_ exactly her potential is still up in the air i choose believe hsr devs will revisit the “hp drain/consumption mechanic” sooner or later cause even the longevous disciple set specifically mentions on its 4pc hp consumption from another unit, but right now they’re going through a break and fua phase so we’ll have to wait
Ellen will fall off for sure, especially now that her team cannot be upgraded in any way possible, while zhu yuan has yet to have qinyi and jane doe has to have a full physical team
Its the same problem with my e2 danIL, i am still using a stone age relic set because no new basic att relic set for him, but he still can compete because of new support like sparkle, and maybe a new 5 star tingyun will help danIL more, the last time i am using jing liu is when aventurine in moc, after that i never use it because my dot team perform far better than her
@@insertnamehere2022 I think Hsr has done a rly gud job with keeping power creep in check, besides 1.3/4. as long as they release the right supports, i think or dps’ will be fine :)
@@yun3_ Well, if you want to 0 cycle, Monocuantum sucks 😂 After finally getting Hanabi, my Seele team gets me constantly 5 cycles maximum, so I have another 5 cycles for my other team. But I only can use Monocuantum at the floor that have a Elite boss (for example Kafka, Aventurine or even Argenti), and maybe if there are two bosses. More than three enemies, Monocuantum also sucks 😅 I only have DoTs and FuA teams (No Acheron or Firefly), so Monocuantum covers me the floor that I don't have Elemental advantage. Is not the best optimized account, but is very fun to me 😊
I play the Jingliu team with Bronya, Sparkle, Gallagher (since him and Fu Xuan are my only worthy sustains) and when I try to clear MoC it's just pure agony. Even my S1 Sparkle's buffs are not enough, and I do the proper rotation all the time too. Jingliu, Bronya, Sparkle have the traces tree fully leveled and upgraded (excluding basics) and it's still not enough, my damage barely goes above 100k and that's even worse considering MoC has literally close to no Ice Weak enemies. My Jingliu did more damage in Ruan Mei Bronya team but my Ruan Mei is locked in my DoT team (which is yet to receive Black Swan as the final piece) and I can't afford Robin right now
dang. I'd recommend u try pela instead of sparkle or bronya. cuz u wont be able to combine both buffs cuz their buffs wear off when u use the other's skill 👍
@@oniceguard9205it’s honestly sad they clearly see how popular of a character she is but proceeds to do nothing with her but maybe she’ll show up in the story and can somewhat have a reason to indirect buff her
Robin has a 2 turn downtime, considering you run a atk boots and and er rope then jingliu takes around 3-4 turns without ult buffs. Not only that but because there a not alot of ice weak mobs ruan mei's ice pen is INCREADIBLY STRONG. Finally robin buffs her onyl by 20% crit and considering bronya also buffs crit and jingliu also buffs her own crit it isn't as good. Finally if you are using bronya robin makes you lose so much sp that you will have some turns where it's either jingliu skill or bronya skill. Lastly in robin bronya and sustain team robin personnel damage will suffer due to not being buffed and the amount of the attacks being very low.
@@rezaabiyoso1855 Not just Robin. Even Sparkle performs better than Ruan Mei in Jingliu teams. Ruan Mei is better served in other teams, such as dual DPS or Break team.
Yeah the reliance on Ruan Mei is so painful for her. Especially since I have E1 Ruan Mei who everyone wants. My other main team is a DoT comp which arguably wants Ruan Mei a lot more. Since she gives everything they need. And she fixes their rotations by giving just enough spd.
She was my first 5 star and the character i Always consider as my "main " and the best advice i can give is just get sparkle and run her on ATK boots , you can run both bronya and sparke if you're crazy
i tried atk boots with no sparkle/ bronya bronya and it is not it. wish i had a sparkle to try it out tho ik u can do sparkle bronya with argenti pretty well cuz u can ult right before its ur turn with both buffs. but the last time ive seen those 2 together on yt was like 2 months ago
@@yun3_ with a 160 sparkle on a dance dance dance you get basically the same amount of actions you would get with a mid speed bronya and jingliu so if you happened to pull her i strongly recommend it
As a Jingliu main We need a support character specifically for her And a relic set Im hoping this because hoyo also mentioned Jingliu multiple times in the a Xianzhou story Probably foreshadowing her return So im hoping a new calyx with the relic she needs somewhere in the future
7:22 i kinda feel atacked since my bronya is E5 and will soon be E6 . I keep losing my 50/50s . I didnt win a single 50/50 in penacony . I won fu xuan rm and JQ banner so far but i also always get my 5* very late🫠. Btw i have been playing since week 1 of launch and spend a bit of money
@@40WarlocksJulian W and L? though losing sucks balls, i honestly would love an e6 bronya ;-; my luck in this game also is not the best. it just goes to my relic rolls instead of
A good JL vs DHIL comparison next MOC. th-cam.com/video/OWRLuKH1edU/w-d-xo.html
Another 0 cycle Jingliu with robin and QuidQP Gallagher this 2.4 moc. super gud watch th-cam.com/video/LEVNfQlVMM0/w-d-xo.html
Dw, is all good 👍
@@oyfum2638 tyty. i think it'll be good informing ppl how well jingliu can perform with a nice set up looks like, esp for ppl who want to replicate that
I've always been turned off by robin's high er cost. But after seen that, im like dam. shoud've invested into robin stonks
If a t0 JL support comes first, I'll get them. If robin reruns first, robin it is. I'll let hoyo decide
Jingliu is definitely suffering from a case of "outdated team syndrome". Sure, Bronya and Pela is her BiS, but man it's been her BiS for so long that it's started to become a problem. At the very least DHIL has Sparkle.
Even Clara has been getting a bunch of Ws in terms of new teammates; a standard banner 5 star DPS. Even with Yunli's release, it somehow made Clara better because of Yunli's LC.
The best in slot is definitely ruan mei or robin instead of pela, but only because they're amazing general buffers and the margin of increase is definitely not as much as what a lot of newer units get. Not to mention they're much more contested because they're amazing generally
Bronya Pro Max soon, and they use sp/hp drain for blade too :)
@@yun3_ wait those would both be cool af actually, would balance it out a bit and maybe finally give blade something that other people dont. blade & topaz7th teams have so much SP lying around it would be awesome if we got a support that could actually use those
@@yoisakikanade_ I would'nt even mind if it was like high risk/high reward type of thing where u gotta balance the sp consumption to play optimally. As long as it's worth :)
@@yun3_ so cant you place sparkle or hanya?
Life of a hypercarry. Plus next boss is SUPER THICK HP SPONGE.
I heard it has around 2.7m+ hp or something like that. I'm scared 💀💀
Firefly, butthole, and feixiao+topaz will be eating good against this dude. I fear dot, dhil, and jl aint gonna do so hot
@@yun3_ the boss will be the bane of people who don't have firefly, boothill, feixiao, or topaz (aka me)
@@exoticbutters1760 HAVE FUNN😭
@@yun3_ nah man I guess it's time for me time to completely rebuild my shitty ass unfinished Blade and also build Sushang for this boss 😭🙏
About the pela, it's a problem with nihility characters. The debuff stays on enemies, and when they act or change waves, the debuff disappears. I think that's why hoyo brought jiaoqiu with the idea of being like Mei, where the field depends entirely on the character and not on the enemies.
But then it ended up being too broken Cuz acheron exists so he had to die
@@candleplays8030he’s still strong af
@@Sometheus honestly outside acheron teams I'd rather use ruan cuz vulnerability and damage boost are calculated the same
@candleplays8030 Except that other teams benefit from RM more. Acherons trace won't be maxed and vulnerability is a rarer stat than dmg bonus so it scales better
@@hollowcookie9648 Keywords "Outside of acheron teams"
I already replied to someone in the comments here with this exact same statement, but I just hope once we get more characters in the future who have similar kits to her and/or Blade, we'll eventually see them (and Luocha) getting the buffs they deserve along with a resurgence in usage again.
they first need to get "their" support that facilitates their playstyle. Hoyo can go so many different routes for this so im very curious on what they do. After that, yah more hp drainers would be cool
@@yun3_ yeah. Jade isn't enough we need HSR's version of Furina from Genshin
@@yun3_ I also forgot to mention but I remember seeing leaks on reddit of two unnamed Destruction units (One is Quantum when the other one is Imaginary) and according to the leaks they both scale off of and consume their own HP just like Blade. I'm probably inhaling copium rn but I think we might eventually see Blade getting the buffs he deserves along with Luocha finding his place in newer teams (also maybe even some potential future Jingliu synergy as well?)
@@exoticbutters1760 well only time will tell if these leaks were true or not but regardless, gonna be optimistic for our units :)
@@yun3_ true! I did see on twitter that in testing, they both use Blade as a base at the moment considering they don't have models for now, and the team used was them + Lingsha + Luocha. I don't think their HP consumption is terribly high to the point they have to use two sustains who already overheal like crazy (I think it's most likely just some of the devs messing around with what they have) but I think this means that Luocha and Lingsha would be their best sustain options. They're also presumably being worked on for 3.x. Also, the leaks are from Ubatcha1 who is generally known to be credible when it comes to leaks most of the time.
bro perfectly predicted the DoT fall off and topaz increase 💀
i can predict the future xd
I was super excited for sparkle to come out since I thought she was gonna be a great replacement for bronya due to her buff extending to her targets next turn. But nope 😭 so much of her damage increase can come from her skill point use talent and jing liu is the skill point positive queen
yah felt the same way ;-; just need to get e6 bronya now 😞🔫
Jingliu - sparkle - bronya is one of the strongest teams
Evem stronger than Jingliu - pela - bronya
So i heard
no sp:(
@@yun3_ how ik dmg % is better for JL but she feels so much weaker than sparkle
@@critanddam9031 The raw amount that sparkle buffs is more than Bronya so that may be why. I think most hyper carry comps rn generally dont run spd and go atk boots besides JL and blade which use bronya instead (though blade def can be used in a sparkle team with hp boots).
What Jingliu needs imo is more sources of DEF Shred since it gets stronger the more you stack it. It's ironic how her best set is the quantum set.
A 5* Tingyun will also help extending her uptime. They can even be more demanding of SP since Jingliu herself is already SP efficient.
All the past carries have super limited capabilites because they are only enabled in hypercarry comps with 3 harmony/buffers. Recent characters have been mostly FUA based so they are way more flexible and less sp consumtive by a mile but still did the job done. Jingliu and IL/Blade are still functional but again 0 flexibility
Def shred will help every dps though. There is little Hoyo can do to put JL ahead other dps right now. Unless they release a Furina type unit JL will be mid for now
@@HSRMOC Her self-buffs do kinda diminish other types of buffs, which makes def shred and res-pen relatively speaking more valuable.
Im just saying. A nihility healer with def shred. *cough what Jiaoqiu could've been *cough
@@yun3_ facts but they gotta dickride acheron somehow even tho shes already disgusting as is
What's ironic is that whoever can buff Jingliu good to an extent may as well buff other DPS the same, so the difference between them may not change. But I digress, who knows there maybe a specific solution for hypercarries only.
Another comment said this "I think the hope for JL is a support that gives res pen per for crit rate above X and crit damage above Y + some other buff (maybe action advance or something?) for a change in HP of 2 or more allies. "
this could def help out a yanKING and jingliu
@@yun3_lol thats just sparkle buffs. My ratio has nearly 400% cdmg with her
Skill dmg inc, ice implant, ice dmg inc, additional turn/2x action, dmg inc based on hp drain, def penetration bonus after certain crit rate/dmg thresholds, additional dmg based on current stat, dmg inc stack after being hit, dmg conversion etc etc.
I've seen a lot of unique supports from all kinds of gacha, and there's a lot that they can do to improve her kit. Xiao got his unique support with weird ahh plunge atk buff years after his release.
@@LauderIX im just curious on the route the devs take. My bet is honestly single target hp drain. I feel like theycould buff jade, blade, and arlan, with jl missing out a bit
her kit is just too simple, If anything bronya was everything she could've asked for, her weakness has already been covered since her release, compared to any other units who got their best partner later as the game progress
I'd say the current shift may see Jingliu fair better in duo dps teams. Both March and Jade are great examples of characters who can support a main dps, but also serve as a sub dps with the buff(s) they give. With Jade, Blade was able to work in PF, and both March and Jade can be played sp positive too, like Topaz. Having a lack of good support buffs might mean she needs a nihility sub dps or a more general debuffer who can allow her to hit more times in a turn.
This is probably why kafka/swan have worked well for so long. They fill in where the other lacks and their best supports can provide team wide buffs like mei, asta and robin. I think with the current set of hypercarries they just need an sp positive support or can fill in where they lack.
0:40 DoT is actually still good but yeah that prediction was spot on
from watching gameplay, it was always just gud, not great, which is perfectly fine.
fua with robin is just so strong rn, and even more so with feixiao. dot’s ticks just arent enough anymore seeing how fua are doing that much at a higher frequency. imo, the only way to save dot(my friend’s dot team is cooked), is either a tailored dot sustain or a stronger kafka.
Thanks for covering this, now i know why i see that my Jingliu (with every setup possible) was still dealing so little dmg despite having 100% CR and base 255% CDMG. thought i was drunk lol.
with better supports, I wouldn't doubt if she goes ham in the future and our dmg just skyrockets
@@yun3_ for our sake i hope we DO get that BronProMax.
screw balance. i want stupid combos >:)
Bronya Pro Max will never happen. there will never be another character that 100% action advances using skill. if there is, then both bronya and that character will be able to abuse their skill to max their ult, etc.
HOYO. ALLOW THESE STUPID SHENANAGINS AND MY LIFE IS URS
Fr it would just be insane to have 2 bronyas at the same time
@@nitroblaze6696 I already see bronya advancing robins. Now I wanna see a bronya AA a bronya 2 that AA Robin which then AA both of em
Sparkle would be even worse cuz with 2 bronyas she'll still be the weakest harmony unit💀
@candleplays8030 "still" ? She is top 3, arguably the best in non break HC teams
I feel like the main problem for her is that she is tied to her mechanics and it goes down on her turns. There is no way you can defeat bosses in 3 to 4 turns. The only other character who has this mechanic is ironically Blade. Since most dps can do damage their high damage and isn’t tied to the turns . This is poorly worded but I hope you can understand. So unless we got Tingyun and Bronya mix as a character she will probably stay the same which is saddening
I gotchu. Either we gotta do a jingillion dmg so she doesnt leave the state, get ult battery so that doesnt happen. Or action advance so it's like she never left.
Most dps' now honestly have funny stipulations too. JL, with good uptime, can consistently deal high dmg, while other dps' have honestly worse down time IMO. Ex. break if they arent broken, charging up acheron, and then dot taking its time too. The only team that dont really got "downtime" is Fua and tradional dmg dealers like seele.
If they add bronya but energy, us JL mains will be cooking >:)
Can Jingliu still get the job done in end game content? Absolutely! Is it easier or faster than the current top tier dps characters? Probably not but that's ok. The past few MoC turbulence buffs has not been very ideal for Jingliu yet she still performs very well. Obviously she's no longer the cream of the crop but that shouldn't deter players from using her cause she is still the best Ice dps we have in the game currently and with help from possible future supports, she can still be & is still a good option.
It's funny that Hoyoverse has yet to release a new 5* Ice dps character since Jingliu way back in 1.4. We have gotten 7 patches without another 5* Ice dps.
I think she will age well which ik is opposite to what ppl say. if a support simply buff dmg bonus or res pen, jingliu already got atk, cr, cdmg covered. But besides more ice dps, I WANT MORE SUPPORTS. pls hoyo. My ruan mei cant take it anymore.
as a Jingliu player who just recently upgraded the team (march 7th hunt and huo huo replacing robin and lynx and tingyun being there) these ared efinetly major issues. however. the teams fun so while it would be nice for a buff, I'm still gonna enjoy playing her and having firefly clean up the rest of moc
As a Jingliu lover i do hope they make a relic set that has def shred whilst having crit dtats on it cus Jingliu needs a better set rn
I bet hoyo will make it pretty niche like skill dmg only or else it'll be everyone's BIS
Atleast Jingliu is better than DHIL in terms of relics ☠️
@@Mrteahuge i think both are kinda dookie rn. Musketeer vs (i use 2 2 piece) though ik some ppl be using quantum and ice
@@yun3_ quantum is better than musketeer, quantum set have def shread
that is pretty true, though for jingliu, it's just ok imo just bc not every enemy has quantum. We just gotta hope both get better sets
I did like the Blade + Jingliu synergy even though it wasn't really truly that great, but now Blade works Better with Jade, which left Jingliu as a complete standalone character.
tbh i can totally see her being buffed with a hsr furina. something like that would be insanely good for jingliu since the one completely unique thing about her is that she drains the whole teams hp
Oh that would be pretty cool too. Lots of other gud ideas in the comments :)
i had to admit, despite my main being JL, i just hate the fact that my e0s0 archeron can output so much more damage with little to no synergy comp, and my Decked out JL comp falls short when compared to, i invested so much into JL and her teams then seeing the dmg output on best case scenarios compared to archeron just simply ulting is heart breaking. truly wish hoyo will release a character that can support JL to her fullest
hopefully yah. i will say while acheron does big screenshot dmg, her actual dmg output overall is fairly close to jl excluding that overkill dmg. if JL is 1+1+1. Acheron is like 3.25 nuke
I saw a video about why JL would inevitably fall off and it makes sense. Her multipliers are just not impressive. Her sheer amount of free stats used to compensate but with all new supports basically being huge upgrades to everybody but her, it's clear that the diminishing returns is catching up with her.
And I fear even with new def shred or dmg% buffers, she won't get huge buffs bcs everybody else also benefits immensely from those stats, it's just that JL has to rely on thsoe two stats bcs they're the two that she has the least of. Her pnly chance for a resurgence is new characters playing around with her hp loss (but it's such a small amount of HP drain so it specifically has to be about team HP bcs Arlan, Blade, and the counter girls outclass her in HP draining) that also increase her uptime by a lot
I will say what big multiplier is very subjective. I believe most ppl believe her multipliers and impressive bc they are comparing to say acheron ult, lightning lord, and argenti ult. This damage is super back loaded, so while ex. a ult from them/fua can do 500k, jl can do 2 skills to reach that, while their skills do negligible dmg.
I would actually disagree with the next part as she yes this is true while other characters can benifit, it shouldnt be close to what jl can get. This is bc harmony characters rn make up a great part of the DPS' stats rn (robin, sparkle). taking away these buffs and replacing it with say res pen/def shred, bc their base stats are now lower, and instead multiplying a lower number x a new multiplier is not that high bc the bs stats taken away from the base cuz they benefited so much from it.
but yah, hopefully hoyo touches up on hp shenanigans
Also saw the MV stuff with Ratio vs JL, the issue with that is that Ratio does not have downtime, while JL does. Her multipliers would be good if she always had them but she is a damage window based DPS, meaning we have to consider her uptime but also the fact we need to also consider buff uptime on her. Bronya is her best support bcs she doubles her uptime but even Bronya has some anti-synergy with her 100% AA
thats super fair. I will say I do believe that potentially down time actually equal our to ratio dmg. Though I dont know how much or if thats even the case if the down time is horrendous without bronya and exlucding tingun too
Skill dmg inc, ice implant, ice dmg inc, additional turn/2x action, dmg inc based on hp drain, def penetration bonus after certain crit rate/dmg thresholds, additional dmg based on current stat, dmg inc stack after being hit, dmg conversion etc etc.
I've seen a lot of unique supports from all kinds of gacha, and there's a lot that they can do to improve her kit. Xiao got his unique support with weird ahh plunge atk buff years after his release.
If devs want to make it work, they can make it work.
I personally think theyll go the hp drain route to bring back power to said units and abundance units. maybe a single target one tho to help blade, arlan, and jade, so maybe jl wont be helped much
Jingliu has way too many anti synergies. Too many action advances to buff her, hp drain so no using the preservation path and too many self buffs so there's low multipliers
how does she not synergize with preservation? the hp drain doesnt affect the shield
@@porkdumpring she instantly loses shields in her enhanced state iirc
There's probably gonna be a buffer similar to Yunjin and Shenhe from Genshin eventually, the ones who basically add to scaling
@@exoticbutters1760 wtf thats awful
*sighs*
Jingliu is not bad... Acheron is broken.
shes not weak, the moc just isn't ice weak and relies on break/fua so she isn't used
funny enough, the first time MOC released without ice weaknesses, there has been a boatload of posts of JL mains claiming she's so OP she can bruteforce off element, whereas other dps mains (especially kafka/blade/JingYuan) have been bruteforcing off element.
One of Boothill's best teammate is also Bronya where he can only use 33% of her kit, only the 100% action advance and the new break relic sets were just niche for firefly and the break sustains are all fire element 💀 Boothill is still doing good because his scaling is really high and he scales on enemy toughness but if we get a harmony support with 100% action advance and lets character ignore def or res pen i will be really happy, that character will be broken for Jingliu and Boothill. Jingliu will probably appreciate def ignore or res pen more too because of her huge self buffs with attack and crit
i love bronya and she has carried me since 1.4, but i honestly dont mind if she gets replaced. cuz even if she does get pwr creeped, she’ll def still be usable
It’s all up to hoyo, will they ever make another skill damage waifu they want to sell well, and that THEY themself care enough for to give a dedicated set and new strong support to so that JL can actually make use of these? Probably but they are too busy with Da Wei’s favorite archetype (FUA) and break rn, maybe once these are done they go back to some other basic forms of damage again.
seeing the trend on how they buff different archetypes every patch, maybe hp/sp consuming support coming soon for our carries like balde and jingliu
Tbh I think they could also create an enhanced skill/basic buffing support to replace Ruan Mei.
there are a lot of ways hoyo can go with it. lets just hope they do it right
Great Video! I haven't watched your pinned comparison to DHIL vs JL yet but I am glad more people are bringing up the fact that JL is slowly falling behind, not bad by any means but nor is she likely to ever be queen again. I'll probably have a slightly different opinion once I see the comparison to DHIL but I can't say I like Prydwen putting him in the same tier when he I would argue has more vertical investment than JL does and has a new and better team than she does. Plus if we ever get a 5 Star Tingyun that really cranks up the energy back with ult then he along with other Hyper carries will be eating good! But for both of them they desperately need new 4pc set bonuses because both of them are basically rocking 1.0 sets when were well into 2.0 already. DHIL could use one based on basics and spent SP while JL could use one similar to say Blade where HP loss gives a buff but doesn't have the odd HP% buff his does for him.
I and others are still waiting for our Hsr equivalent of furina. if they do that, JL right to the top >:) but yah, i really want new sets soon at least. they could just add JL lc to a relic set if they really wanted
@@yun3_ they honestly could. I've been holding off on farming his set too much because it's such a basic set. I think it'd bump them up a tier given how strong the newer sets get.
She just doesn’t fit well with modern supports due to how her kit works, low multiplier but high self buff, that’s the sole problem. She’s stuck with the exact same team, while older units like Seele, Jingyuan, and Clara gets better teammate like Sparkle and Robin, they are noticably better each patch because of this. Honestly if a character have good synergy with Robin they are instantly a better character than Jingliu already. She can use Robin too btw, you could probably get better results with Robin than Ruanmei because she’s just that broken, but she’s not getting as much benefit from Robin as other dps would due to stats diminishing returns. Also Sp problem can be a pain depending on your sustains in those teams.
u gotta check the link in the pinned comment. The dude does a 0 cycle with JL with robin this MoC and it goes hard. I mentioned that the self buffs goes 2 ways.
While many are acknowledging how it can harm her potential as she would gain less from subsequent buffs, it actually helps if a new harmony say focused solely on res pen. If that's the case, then JL with cr,cdmg,atk, and dmg bonus already gud, she's vibing and can fully benefit while other characters will still need to get those stats
He is saying: the per turn buggy interactions with buffs/debuffs!
It should have been according to AV!
And that would make her dmg much more consistent too :)
overcrit preservation unit whose shield durations are based around their own turns would be huge actually
Fuxuan is damage mitigation but close enough
The problem with JL scaling isn't related to multipliers but how it works with relic sets, because of how much crit rate she gains you don't want crit rate past 50% meaning that really quickly you get a useless stat and you care only about crit dmg and attack, but she also gains a ton of attack so really you only care about crit dmg that means you will have a much harder time gaining dmg upgrades from relics vs most other dps in the game. That adds up with the issues you point out about team options. I feel JL won't get a proper support for her (a better Bronya) because they already put out Sparkle and creating a unit that buffs base on their own turns instead of the dps and have 100% action advance is not going to happen, and if it happens will make all hypercarry or even dual dps team stronger so the position of JL teams will basically not change at all.
I agree with mostly everything but would disagree with the end part. Most hypercarrys RN I would say are running atk boots and sparkle to make up the speed. JL i would say is the only hyper carry dps that actually runs Spd boots currently bc of bronya. If a bronya pro were to be released, I would like to assume that characters such as DHIL and JY woud still be going sparkle. Blade, Seele, and Blade could actually benefit for this seeing how they consume less sp and could as such work better (ik seele uses a lot but if her basic kills, thats a nice refund). This is just my pov tho
So regretting getting her and her cone in the rerun now. Wish I'd got Boothill instead.
all it takes is 1 new character, going from gud to top tier :) so who knows, maybe jl will go hard in the future
Fun Fact, At No Traces or Light Cones, Firefly has the highest Def in game & Jingliu has the 2nd highest HP behind Fu Xuan, so, they're actually the core definition of Bruisers (which this game doesn't care about) but we want to nuke or quick kill with them which FF easily achieves with BiS team(can get better), relics, SB dmg n Self Implant & JL struggles as she has nothing of these for her.
A unit that can help with her style wud be a Harmony/Abundance that tallies HP changes for the entire team(in no. of stacks not ratio) & provides buff that expires in her turn.
I love how tanky JL is cuz other dps’ like jingyuan or herta from my experience are literal marshmallows. I also go sustainless for my ff break and its so nice putting her in the middle cuz she literally cannot die and is like a psuedo preservation. idk but i stg the only target her sometimes.
that would be pretty nice but they gotta be strong enough to somehow either replace robin or bronya rn
I do not actually mind Jingliu, and would certainly never call her "weak". Yes, she isn't the best at the moment, however she tends to reach the required benchmarks fairly painlessly on hitting ice-weak enemies. At least in MoC.
agreed. she her self is not weak but her team currently is. We can see how even with multiple just "gud" units like Fua, combine them together, and now u got the best time in game (imo)
I'm commenting a bit late from the video since I just saw it pop up in my feed. Jingliu fas fallen off and it's not an overstatement to say that she is no where near the ballpark we need her to be. A lot of individuals who've tried to say that she hasn't fallen off has always told me that it's not Jingliu who's bad, it's that she doesn't do enough damage. These exact individuals continue to say that she can still be used and I totally agree since you can still 0-Cycle or whatever. Bros are legit countering their own arguments at that point. This exactly sums up my point, this video explains a lot of the problems that I've tried to get across with multiple people. I'm glad I encountered this now.
so like jl as a solo character is much stronger than most of our other dps’. the issue is that doesnt matter cuz the whole of a team is much more important. when we see where pela, bronya, and whichever sustain you choose, they aren’t even above t1 anymore. still gud, but no robin/aventurine for fua for example. i do believe jl rn is not in the best spot rn in the same manner as blade, as just no dedicated support yet imo
@@yun3_ I would really love to Jingliu & Blade again in MoC since they are my first DPS I pulled. Favoritism at it's finest lol. I'll be using them when Feixiao comes out... If you know, you know.
As a Bronya lover I don’t support this slander. “Evil be gone” 🔫
as a Bronya enjoyer, I will keep slandering till e6 comes home. then i stop >:)
So I think the best way to buff Jingliu would be a full team revamp, and these are my ideas for three teammates that I believe would all function with other characters but would completely shine when paired with each other and Jingliu.
Ice - Abundance
Skill applies a healing over time to all characters where when a character gains health they also gain some energy that increases with the amount the character heals by (doesn't work when full HP) this energy gain doesn't apply to the healer, their ultimate gives a large heal to all characters and this heal does allow for overhealing to count for the energy regeneration.
Ice - Harmony
Applies a team wide buff that ticks down on this characters turn, the buff makes it so when a character's HP increases or decreases that character gains a stacking Speed and Res ignore buff, the ultimate for this character adds an additional boost with this buff for a couple turns that increases the energy gained based on the number of stacks you have, only the Res ignore applies to this character (and at half the rate too)
Ice - Nihility
Skill applies a debuff to enemies that shreds defense (Frozen enemies have extra defense shredded) this debuff also makes all Ice damge attacks have a small chance to freeze the enemy, ultimate applies Ice weakness to all enemies on the field and increases the weakness break efficiency of all teammates.
The first one sounds super nice for blade, but may not work too well with JL cuz she dont drain her hp. But if ur intention is her batterying her teamates (like a ty), then thats big brain af.
The second idea sounds rly nice for firefly xd
the last idea just sounds cool. Though idk how gud it would be against bosses cuz they refuse to freeze imo lol.
The closest thing we got to a " perfect" support is robin, robin gives dmg % buff on her turn not jingliu's so it wont dissapear fast, an ult that matches perfectly for her playstyle.
Once we get a new planar or relic set she might be usable again.
i think to make robin even better of a support to jl, wish the ult didnt give atk. though i understand how op it is for literally anyone else but her and balde
I'm not a meta guy, I just use whoever counters the type-weakness, or use Firefly if I'm going in blind like story mode. So I still use Jingliu if there are enough ice-weak enemies because my other ice characters have low traces or mid relics. But I'm still waiting for HSR Furina that buffs hp-loss characters, it's going to happen if they keep dropping like a dozen 5-stars every year.
based :) i just use whatever team atm that clears the divergent uni/relic domains fastest for me. It was JL for like the past half year for me, but now firefly. Though I must say i cant wait for a furina like character
Like master like student, both blade and jingliyu got the same fate
Hey at least maybe they will got their dedecated support in the future like aventurine robin or HMC
dont forget yanKING
i mean, jade kind of?? helped him
a bit in PF yah. but where's the sparkle to dhil at
@@yun3_ ok maybe those others in the comments were right about a furina support in hsr, it would help
@@ilovehoyoverse Hoyo honestly has so many options of what they can do
i can see a limited 5 star energy char to be good for her as well for sygyzy more enhanced skill uptime, like how argenti is waiting for it
doesnt help that the only energy support tingyun atk buffs are not as good with her
like a critdamage+energy limited support
crit rate overflow is also good for them yea, either in a support but more realistically also a harmony
it could also be a "crit twice" type of thing where crit rate above 100% gets converted to another chance to proc a "super crit" (crit damage multiplied together)
crit rate based harmony that buffs crit rate of allys and does one of the two things
huohuo probably isnt that bad of a support healer tbh for energy gen, even if atk buffs are less efficent
energy would indeed be so nice, but hoyo gotta do it someway to make it not just OP for like every character in the game. Using tingyun and bronya is so hard to do cuz I gotta spam the frik outta tingyun or else no buff, and then my sp just dies.
honestly i would love a energy/ res pen support cuz thatll benifit JL more than other characters.
doing a "super crit" would also be rly cool which could also maybe let yanqing shine seeing how has waaayyy to much cr.
I hope they make supports that are good for Jingliu because ive running the same team ever since ive got Ruan Mei
The only thing that can buff Jingliu is if Hoyo releases a new character that can consume ally's HP like Jingliu in the future. The same mechanic will make Hoyo buff characters who have the same mechanic such as kafka w/ DoT, Topaz w/ FUA and HMC w/ Superbreak through relics, planars, or even specific new characters.
i think any hp consumption character would be cool. helping out the blade and arlan mains
I remember pulling for her on the rerun because I needed a main dps, now I sit here struggling to get her going with the exact team you showcased lol.
They just gotta add THAT sustain or support. After that, we'll get the perfect team and be right back to the top in no time
Sameee but I use of use Robin e1 instead of pela with Gallagher sustain I can't clear the Kafka side moc 11
Idk if it was moc 11 I think it's was 10 or 9 I forget
@@bingbongbg th-cam.com/video/LEVNfQlVMM0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=OYFUM
this guy is using ur team but goes crazy. 0 cycle with a sustain. Using quid pro quo to battery Robin.
@@yun3_ OMGGG TYYYY
With the last few videos, I was expecting you to say something about Jiaoqiu's potential to be a Much better Pela for JL.
Chances are, He'll be one of JL's best teammates, and with Sparkle, He might even contirbute some damage!
Though i didnt say that in the vid, ur def right if ur wanting to replace pela. but his competition is ruan mei as well. I believe at e0s0, ruan mei wins, but at e1s1, JQ is = to RM e1s1 dmg wise(excluding the utility)
@@yun3_ JQ's personal damage doesn't make up for the Utility?
There's also the option of replacing Pela/Broyna with JQ/RM and forgoing an Action advance entirely...
But I don't even have Jingliu so Idk. Just tryna add to the convo I guess
@@yun3_then there’s no point to pull JQ
@@nkosiezikalala5267oh it can make up for the utility but itll just depend on how u build him i believe. + he can damage the toughness bar a lot more than rm, though yk balanced by rm break efficiency.
also np. so when u go the slow route/no AA, u really need tingyun to stay in the enhanced state. but once ur out of it, ur cooked 😢
@@nkosiezikalala5267don’t forget Ruan Mei also does decent damage on break. Also yes JQ’s damage is really underwhelming imo
I've been feeling like Bronya is good with Jingliu, but also not good enough. I remember going against Aventurine MoC 12 using Jingliu, Bronya, Pela, Huo Huo. Cleared in like average of 6 cycles. Then I tried runs where I replaced Bronya with Tingyun e6 and then Hanya e6 and I cleared in 5 cycles. Hanya was kinda a niche scenario where she was better, but generally I feel like Tingyun with DDD is better. Bronya only buffing half of Jingliu's damage while also giving more SP issues is pretty annoying.
The best thing for Jingliu imo would be Bronya+Tingyun in one character. Has an advance forward plus energy buff. Though that would be good for a lot of hypercarries, they could balance it to where they need more SP so not every hyper carry can use them.
Yah and that could help out blade a lot. I'm actually hoping they'll add something along the lines of giving energy regen instead of just flat energy. So that may help characters hit new thresholds, cuz being at 135/140 energy 😊🔫
@@yun3_ True. I was also thinking the harmony character could be like DHIL where you can use their skill multiple times to give additional buffs. So having a team with an influx of SP or DPS that use low SP would get buffed more than others.
@@bromegaman5962 I read something like that way long ago and it's been in the back of my mind. I think low sp usage could def be its own niche with a support like that + that could help arlan too :)
@@yun3_ Yeah either that or an HP manipulation team. We have gotten a lot more characters lately that change their/teams HP. Firefly, Jade and Yun Li back to back. Plus Jingliu, Blade and Arlan from before. It would be cool to get a character that benefits from the team hurting themselves 😂
It just makes it that much easier to skip the next dps knowing how this game has obscene power creep already.
fr kafka bs was the best team in the whole game for literally a patch, and then acheron came out
my main issue is never being able to use ruan mei with jingliu since ruan mei is 100% necessary for firefly, though this is my fault for pulling firefly as a jingliu main, i would really like a new character who can synergize with jingliu cuz its getting increasingly hard to 3 star moc with her now. also ive actually been using aventurine as my sustain for jingliu which i know most would be opposed to but since his shields are so thick i never really need to restore the hp lost with her ability and his crit dmg buffs are nice
I assume sunday may come back and is hopefully a hypercarry support who can help out JL. but if u cant wait that long, i would honestly rly rly recommend trying to get robin if u want a JL support. I just got e1s1 and can say she is even better than e1s1 ruan mei. the only caveat is you NEED to use quid pro quo gallagher on that team. against this kafka rn, i end at the end of3 cycles with Ruan mei and nearly 0 with robin
@@yun3_ oh yeah i had my eyes set on the robin rerun, sucks cuz i actually want the new character but i cant realistically get both of them so ill simply push for robin
well gud luck with pulling robin, if u do grt her, u can always get feixiao on a rerun :)
Okay it seems ppl are alr arguing about Robin being jl’s best teammate (which I agree with). Let me be the one to actually put in evidence as Robin is the only character that is able to make jl 0 cycle with sustain (showcase is up on my channel). And not even Ruan Mei at E1S1 can do this.
@@oyfum2638 watched both gameplays, super super impressive. u got ur shit figured out to a T. I think I was 3 cycling last moc using JL, luocha, bronya, and pela which aint too shabby.
I will say the only draw is I think i need Gallagher for the sp and need to be 0 cycling for it to be rly gud. if ur robin buffs run out too early, it’s cooked for a cycle basically. but super super high ceiling tho
@@yun3_ yeah, Gallagher holding qpq is the key to making this team work. Sp + battery for Robin, basically making Robin’s downtime nonexistent which is insanely broken.
@@oyfum2638 OOH. that makes so much sense. i was like robin ult again? thats a pretty goated set up and with this, that i can def see her being jingliu’s second best partner. we still need a bropro max and maybe a new sustain, but who knows, ur gallagher battery seems great
@@oyfum2638 do u mind if i post a link to ur recent vid in my comments? its just a rly good showcase
@@yun3_of course, I don’t mind at all
I think the hope for JL is a support that gives res pen per for crit rate above X and crit damage above Y + some other buff (maybe action advance or something?) for a change in HP of 2 or more allies.
If it isn’t something THAT specific, the new character will be OP for everyone, and JL will still be stuck behind the pack.
I already know ppl are gonna be like "this character sucks cuz too niche", but would be great for yanqing and JL
So basicaly she need another ruan mei
Nothing will stop me from pulling for her. I was so stupid to not pull on her rerun and like i really want her to work alongside my Blade amd i love her EN VA
as soon as they add a furina in hsr, that team might cook 😤 amalee does go pretty hard
Finally someone understands the problems. I wish hoyo could make more use of her hp drain too. The only one who uses it is Blade and it isn't great compared to newer synergies. Like a lot people have mentioned a HSR Furina like character would be great. Also better sets for her would be great. But at the end of the day time would tell if she could have a strong comeback or get destroyed by the passage of time.
there are many interesting ideas on how to buff her that ive heard. Some nice ones were ones dealing with sp as her and blade use less and other carries who rely on it probs cant use it too well. Also just skill damage/basic dmg enhancers. But something dealing with hp also would be really nice. But ur right, only time will tell if JL and balde get treated well
she doesn't even have a signature/bis set. dhil has the same issue, but sparkle really helped him
okay comparing pela to an e1s1 ruanmei is a bit of a stretch, but i agree that pela has been lacking
i honestly don’t even mind farming a new set for jl if it means more dmg.
but yeah vs e1s1 rm def ain’t fair, but seeing how robin is JL’s potential bis there, 😞
Next MC path would bring about an Ice meta guys. Trust me, my friend's neighbour's uncle works at hoyo
Can u ask ur friend's neighbor's uncle when arlan will be meta? or crit firefly?
@@yun3_ > crit firefly
He kicked me out of his office and asked me to never talk to him again
AWW WTH. im calling my dad from nintendo and will make sure he'll never pull off that shet again
The way I see it, Jingliu is like a ticking time bomb who's destined to be an eternal T0 unit by the time a proper BiS relic or a support unit which covers her downtime, is released for her.
A character with a massive CR, Atk boost (as well as her Def shred from her LC) will never be obsolete, so her going downhill right now never really worries me to say the least.
I still use her a lot to 12 star contents in the game but I seriously hate how Hoyo refuses to give her a proper unit to increase her overall useability. All we need is just one unit that caters to her needs and it will change everything. Ratio had Topaz and Robin, DHIL had Sparkle, Acheron is backloaded with multitude of nihilty units to choose from, Firefly had so much Break effect units to also choose from and for us JL mains, what do we fcking get? It's just all Bronya, Ruan Mei and one healer (Huo Huo being the best) is just all we have 😂😂😂😂
agreed. if we just break everyone down into just numbers, the undisputed best is Acheron and Jingliu. their self buffs and multipliers are simply just higher than everyone elses.
with jl covering atk, cr, cdmg. she only needs a buffer that supports res pen, dmg% or just more crit +fixing downtime to just make her great. have the support just eat up more sp to grant more buffs😤
0:38 true, if someone sees actual DoT raw dps comparison against other arquetypes like acheron, break or IPC FuA, DoT actually looks pretty lackluster
It isn't bad by any means, and I think kafka and black swan have a pretty good looking future since ruan mei and huo huo aren't strictly made for DoT, but there is no doubt that that arquetype is probably the most overrated of the game
From personal testing, and current MoC data, she seems to be performing better with Robin instead of Ruan Mei, and Huohuo instead of Luocha.
Robin always has been better than Ruan Mei. Now, Ruan Mei only is BiS for Break Teams
@Yawar25 Depends on the content. They're both exceptional units. On paper Robin should be better with Herta and Himeko in PF, but I've found that those two units don't need forwarding, and their FUA damage is already high enough to clear, so what they really want is more breaks for Himeko, so Ruan Mei pulls ahead.
As time goes on , i always find myself have harder time playing old traditional crit dps . My IL used to be the one carry me through 2-3 moc , now i need a lot more effort to clear with him , even only with 5 cycles. It's funny that , IL do 200-300k back then is consider broken but now people expect more than double that number for newer dps lol
And like in all honesty, that dmg is still very impressive. I think it's literally just acheron and her overkill dmg against 5 targets screwing people's perception. hitting 1mil+ while the effective dmg is more so like 600k
I'm surprised you didn't mention her skill point positivity. Part of the reason others like DHIL had better damage was because they were so skill point hungry, but with Sparkle that got much less of a cost. Now, while that does allow Bronya to be as skill point hungry as she has always been, I think Jingliu really needs more supports that are skill point negative as a cost, otherwise its not really making much use of that skill point neutrality. Both Luocha and Pela and Ruan Mei are all INCREDIBLY skill point positive, when a theoretical strength is Jingliu can run better-but-higher-point-cost buffers.
yes ur right. her dmg per sp is probs the highest (not u acheron, u dont count). the issue is most ppl dont even care for sp and would probs just say “use sparkle or gallagher lol” but i def agree with u
day 1 of saving jades till screw is released
im guessing 173 days
@@yun3_ day 2 of saving till screw releases and yeah probably a long while I'm not sure when they are releasing him
i wish u luck but just wanna say don't feel like obligated to do this :)
Jingliu needs a support unit that has the same Bronya's 100% av forward but has buffs or debuffs that are tied with their turn. Doesn't matter if they're harmony or nihility but Jingliu needs a better support than Bronya because like you said, she can't take advantage of Bronya's buffs 100% of the time.
For Dhil, I mean he has Sparkle, but e0 Dr. Ratio can perform just as well as e2 Dhil. There's a reason that most of the showcases are e2 dhil.
0:39 Kafka and BS still can brutforce 99% of the content (if not 100%). On Prydwen - tiers 0 - 0,5 is brutforceing machines, and 1 - 2 is meta. Jingliu is a very good characters, but few last pathes she cant just brutforce. Thats all. Obviously, this prydwen tierlist is pretty strange, looks like they itself dont understand what they doing and for who. Yes, jingliu mainers, jingliu dont die, shes OK! She meta. But Ratio difenetly over rated only because Follow-up team.
Most gameplay with well invested BS+Kafka mains can barely 5 cycle the first half of the MoC rn. the only well performing team for the endgame modes is the dotAcheron team, but that doesnt count. The DOT modifiers really influenced the perception of dot imo
mid
@@yun3_ Theres alot of 3-4 cycles clears with the first half of DOT besides that just flavour of the month, I wouldn't move a team down because one MOC specifically doesn't catter to them
@@aba7968 i gotchu. if we were to compare to the RRAT team which it also doesnt favor all that much first half, the results are generally quite better. Even my jingliu is finishing in 3 cycles, with the crazy robin ones able to finish in 0 with a sustain. that's my reasoning, though I understand if a dotcheron finishes well, but that's just acheron at that point imo
@@yun3_ From my experience unless your Acheron is E0S1 it's better just to stick to DOT teams with buffers like ruan mei and robin, plus GNSW is really good on both Kafka and Acheron if you don't have their sig so there isn't really room for sharing. As for the RRAT team I do have both of these premium comps at E0S0 for comparison and I think the results are quite similar and maybe slightly more favored to DOT, I feel like part of the reason is that RRAT is more heavily reliant on vertical investement since Ratio loves debuff and at a f2p investement that comp will notice a bigger dip in damage ceiling. I don't have DHIL so I can't make a straight comparison with other 1.X units but JL even with her sig isn't performing better than my DOT team. I think T0.5 is still a fair placement for them even if they didn't receive any support (from relics and new characters) for a while
What threw Jingliu off meta is more to do with her lackluster base damage compared to the alternatives.
Acheron can do an average 600k per ultimate, and regenerate the ultimate pretty quickly. At the peak, the number can go north of 1 million, even 1.5 on a good roll of the buffs.
Break heroes like Boothill and Firefly can also trigger 400k+ or more, and you can easily speed them up and give them turns.
Jingliu, at her best attempt, does 250k, and that is just unsalvageable in today's meta.
Her only redeeming quality is that she can use the path of Rememberance.
yah thats fair, though i must say boothill is not hitting that much, and is closer to 150-300k, idk it really varies based on the boss. 250k skill may may not seem like a lot but sheer amount of times she does it can make up the damage. with it not relying in break, it is also fairly consistent :)
"Why Jingliu is weak right now"
Cause we are in the introductory of BE gameplay and BE units , and every patch now centralizes on BE. And it's also because the latest patches does not favor her kits and gameplay.
Lastly, this is a gacha game. It's that simple.
Edit: Just cleared Apocalyptic Shadows recently with JL and Blade, 4 stages, 3-star all of them. I used the usual unlimited-blade-works-JL lineup (JL, Tingyun, Blade, and Huohuo). Just as I said; it will only depend on the patch and the given stages and their buffs.
yep that's true. But as we've seen with FUA, they can just brute force it now bc their team is just that good. If JL or blade were to get their supports, I wouldn't be surprised if they were to rise to the top
Nice video, i usually use Jingliu ER rope, Tingyun HuoHuo and RM. I getthis team earlier, then i got my first Bronya (2.2 btw💀) so i like this HyperEnergy team. Sometimes she never uses her basic atacks.
I feel like jiao qiu will boost JL dmg cuz the 100% uptime of jiaoqiu debuff .
Copium
I think at higher JQ investment like e1s1, he will def be able to sidegrade maybe, even be better than e1s1 rm ruan mei from the personal math ive done(though i could be wrong)
@@yun3_what’s better e1 or s1 ??
@@monbebehere1607 Hello. I'm just gonna talk about a raw scenario for a in theory average character. so s1, is just a 18% vulnerability so a 18% raw damage increase, and with 60 ehr, it really helps building JQ much easier. besides that, compared to e1 with 40% dmg bonus is it better. Assuming u got 2500 atk, 100 200 ratio < those dont matter. but 43.3 elemental damage cuz the orb with no external buffers rn (the increase will be lower the more u got), but going from 43 >83 dmg bonus will be a 27% dmg increase.
so tldr, e1 :) hope that helps
@@yun3_ ok thanks! I was tempted to get e1 as I plan to use him with all 3 of my mains since he seems good there. Acheron Kafka and ratio but wasn’t to sure yet lol
You're insane if you think DOT should be moved down a tier. Ever since BS came out, they've been top tier and remain great to this day. Hell, you can even run them with Acheron and brute force any content.
I agree with your thoughts on Jingliu however. She has been feeling quite underwhelming in comparison to newer characters even with S1 as she needs a buffer that works with her full kit that isn't Ruan Mei.
they call me a madman. lol but in all seriousness, i personally dont believe dot is strong rn, even though they can clear moc, imo honestly weaker than jingliu, ik ik blasphemy. their damage output simply is lower than the other top tier teams rn clearing generally the first half in 4-5 cycles, while top tier teams are doing that in 1-3 👍
hopefully a nice support soon tho
Jingliu got dangerously power crept. My E0S1 Acheron 2× more damage than better built E0S1 Jingliu
I think only really in 4+ enemy situations ngl. Acheron does a LOT of over kill damage, and when its only against like 2 elites or a boss + elite, her damage is on par with JL and the other dps’
Tbf Acheron blew everyone out of the water in terms of damage
Acheron does have a lot of ramp up time though, and like yun said, she also does a lot of overkill damage. Why spend multiple turns building up to a million damage when you only need half that to clear all the enemies? It's why Acheron somewhat falls off in PF, if not for being carried by the likes of Kafka and BS.
@@peterbabicki8252she also ends up struggling in single target since there are way less debuff opportunities that way and less energy regen for the team.
@@yun3_also in my honest opinion if I may add, E0S0 Acheron doesn’t belong in T0, leave that spot empty at this point, her LC is extremely valuable that if someone has the pulls to get her but not her LC, I say just get FF or some other future waifu hoyo decides to feed steroids to.
Lmao this is so sad because I purposely pulled JL for meta (I have the complete High Cloud Quintet btw, I have not touched or used any of the destruction characters besides Clara and FF, and my DHIL relics when to my Hunt March 7th lolz) and kinda funny because out of all the HCQ, Jing Yuan basically gets lowkey buffed almost every other update 😭😭😭 we all know who the favorite son in HSR is... (he doesn't do an insane amount of dmg but still, he became more viable as time goes on especially with FuA meta rn).
i think as soon an any supports come to help out our xianzhou 5*, theyll be fine.
cuz imma be honest, having a jingyuan is not it
oh the enemy is lightning weak. who wins? JL or Jingyuan. Jingliu lol.
oh the moc enemy is gepard or yanqing. who wins? JL or Jingyuan. Jingliu again silly. (i have e1 jl)
i use a ruan mei for jingyuan cuz i dont have sparkle. but the fact even now he clears the first side of the moc THAT IS LIGHTNING weak slower than my jing liu 🫠🔫. and he got a 4 piece set
@@yun3_ lmao I have Robin, Sparkle, and Huohuo so my JY is pretty much doing good especially PF so... 😂😂😂 I was lucky enough to get all of the current Harmony characters
man i wish ;-; i need more supports for my acc
man i got jingliu on her return and skipped aventurine for her, but as the game progressed i feel like they only used jingliu as like....bait. they make people summon for jingliu cuz she looks cool and is also easy to build, but gave her no teammates at all, treating her like a unit that people can use to pass through the easy content faster
great video btw, your 555th subscriber. GOOD JOB MAN
Iooking at the warp data from just star rail station, Aventurine was around 80% of the pulls during JL rerun, but I can def see how it baited some ppl so to speak.
TYTY. 555 is a pretty nice number
hypercarry DPSs just aint doing too hot in general
exception being Acheron(unfair comparison) and FFs super break team and even that technically isnt a hypercarry team, it just follows the format
i wonder how they will bring back hyper carry without making the other teams just as op
need a new ice set that give ice damage bonus and defense shred
unless hoyo wants to go with a more niche set like skill damage and def shred instead
why would kafka or black swan ever be moved? theyre both enablers. Kafka allows anyone dot character to actual function, she has followup and aoe ult. Her speed and dentonating dots is insane. Blackswan works for both dot and acheron, she has a unique talent and debuff, why would they ever move lol, theyre both the best at what they do currently and cant be replaced with no one having the same/similar kits?
So kafka is the enabler and I honestly don't know if that would change soon, with black swan being replaceable by a new dot unit with just higher multipliers. So while they indeed can bring a whole new playstyle and the best at what they do rn, in the end, it just comes down to damage. for example, If the FUA RRAT team being as cool as it is, if it just lost 20-30% dmg, then as fun as it is, it just wouldn't be performing too well and be a turn off for many ppl. While DOT with kafka and swan can clear pretty well, it's generally around 5 cycles this patch from all the vids I've seen. While that is gud, the other "gud" units are clearing in 0-3 cycles.
I'm down to further discuss if u'd like :) this is ofc just my opinion
I think I respectfully disagree. Dotcheron is still very strong within the meta especially during the first phase of moc 12. You can say that it will be outshone by jaoqiu but he hasn’t released yet and it doesn’t take away what they can do. In addition, while prudent does not take into account sig lc’s I feel at this point they unconsciously do cause fua without sig is just not that consistent (I have swordplay on topaz and cruising on ratio and it’s actually pain (not to mention that comp NEEDS robin and adventurine ). Whereas with e1 black swan without lightcone (e0s0 Kafka) it’s perma uptime Ryan Mei ult and that cossts less than topaz and ratio sig. Thats not to mention that she’s great for counterattacks (go see gacha smack black swan with yunli). And I remember people arguing that Kafka deserved higher because she’s assured in the future more but I feel more about that for dot cause the moment we get a dot oriented amp and sustain I can’t see how it’s not outright beating ratio and topaz if not at least on par (keep in mind everything else I have said still applies)
Also e1 black swan gives res pen to Acheron since you’re running it with Kafka meaning it’s really ridonculous
@@kevalpatel2006 ur right. i do believe in another comment they mentioned this too how prydwen does e0s0, which fua 100% starts performing less than the spot i would place them in.
i while understand why they do no lc, think its also like misleading at times cuz it greatly impacts performance for some and not others. ex, if i were take this to the extreme like some ppl, i could say boothil is t0 while everyone else is t3, IF the comparison was 0 lightcones at all. and IK acheron at this current point should not be up there if she is e0s0 -_-
i dislike how ppl think future proof should be accounted cuz if that was the case, topaz would’ve never been a low tier chatter according to their tier lists.
Fua rn has their full premium team.
Dot has kafka, BS, and usually Rm/jq now, and huohuo. so unless dot gets like a t0 sustain that is just insane, fua will just be dealing more damage than dot at e0s1 by a decent margin imo
appreciate the discussion :)
One question: Will Jiaoqiu be good with Guinaifen together for dps's in general? As Vulnerablity is stronger than Def shred?
That's the wrong way to think about it imo, Vulnerability and Def shred are separate multipliers so you want both on the same team. The only exception is S1+ Black Swan who gets close to the 100% Def Down cap with 89.6% in her kit.
Jiaoqiu will have some synergy with Guinaifen, not as an amplifier but as a DoT unit. Guinaifen's Ult retriggers all Burns, which includes Jiaoqiu's.
Also Gui takes too long to ramp up her Vulnerability so the two of them don't really pair that well for general DPS.
Vulnerability is rly gud but doesnt get better the more u stack like def shred. But until 85%ish def shred, vulnerability is better. u def can put Jiaoqiu in the same team to buff ur dps, but u may be better off switching out guiniafen for a 5* harmony just bc they are currently buffing so much👍
@@yun3_ alright thank you !^^
I feel like, it won't fix any issue to have a new team member dedicated to Jingliu. Because Jingliu is a design from the PEAK of hypercarry era. Every support that would buff Jingliu would buff absolutely everyone and their mother the same way, so the overall improvement of every team will only go up.
A 100% AA, with a buff that is tied to their own turn would be extermely beneficial to every unit that wants both bronya or sparkle as of today.
So unless they create something that interacts directly with Jingliu's mechanics (Ex: her generation of stacks for transmigration) or change game mechanics that would break the rules of the game (Ex: 100% cap crit rate like you mentionned).
The core issue of Jingliu is her downtime, her oversaturation on stats and the wanky timing/rotation where you need to use your ult in. And especially with newer bosses such as Aventurine, every new boss who can tempo a few turn by turning invincible will hurt Jingliu's viability even more.
A very strong hp draining support can certainly buff up our currently not too well performing destruction character like blade and arlan too. What ur saying def is true as a op generalist support for JL will be also pretty op for most of her competition. My only thing I will say is that the type of buff granted will greatly impact this. Our dps units simply lack raw stats compared to JL which harmony units easily make up for and more. If this was res pen, where damage is amped greatly on ur raw stats and multipliers, JL would actually benifit more, as JL is not getting too much from our current harmony supports rn with atk/crit.
i dont know how one would fix her downtime besides turn manipulation or energy ngl
@@yun3_ very true. Maybe Jiaoqiu will be a better amp or equivalent than Ruan Mei since he can benefit from the skill point economy and apply more vulnerability value than pela's def shred with pearl.
A HP draining or AA for enemies would be a very fun and unique buffer/Nihility unit, not gonna lie.
-Spoiler-
A buffer who uses the Lupinotoxin to inflict blood rage on enemies and or allies, while reducing their HP for increased speed/AA every action.
I remember xgosolo releasing that vid and he got so much hate for it 🤣people said that it was because of the enemies being resistant to ice and stuff but no, the fact is she hasnt gotten any new characters or relics to keep her relevant. While dhil also fell off he at least got a dedicated buffer that allowed him to keep up with jingliu. Jingliu is the type of character to do everything herself, and her kit doesn't have anything that can synergize or any mistakes for buffers to fix that only apply to her
I actually enjoyed watching his jingliu video. But i could understand how it could piss ppl off cuz the delivery, but I personally thought it was funny.
As it happens Jingliu destroys the new AS 2nd node
I cant wait to try. Got like 4 more hours to do.
jingliu’s downfall is so sad to me not only cause she’s my favorite character and has my favorite design and lore (alongside firefly) but she’s also the character i’ve put the most time, money and effort into, like pulling her lightcone, failing to get her E1 2 times, getting ruan mei and huohuo just for her and even some decent relics from that hellish glacial forest set.
it’s so fascinating seeing moc 10 run from when it was still considered the “hardest difficulty” and the general mentality of the community was “pull whoever you want the game is easy anyway” and seeing jingliu absolutely SHRED through every enemy, like one enhanced skill and all 3 enemies were dead and even when 1.6 came out and brought along moc 12 she was still able able to very comfortably 0 cycle or at worst 1-2 cycle content even non ice-weak one so comparing it to now where with the exact same investment as before she barely scratches the enemy’s hp in only the spam of a few months is just baffling and i guess you could blame it on hoyoverse constantly gigabuffing enemy’s HP but it’s also the fact that she just doesn’t have any good teammates so her damage ceiling is much much MUCH lower compare to other dps of her time like jing yuan or dhil (blade was always weak so i don’t count him) who got buffed immensely with newer supports. i think if we got a furina “expy” in hsr like a harmony support that increases crit dmg/dmg percentage, energy and maybe even incoming healing bonus based on the hp you lost or gained while also being sp positive it would HUGELY benefit her and even make luocha better since his overhealing would actually help the teams damage output.
also something that wasn’t mentioned in the video but as someone who uses jingliu in every moc cycle cause my only other well built dps is firefly, her gimmick of eating away your teammates HP is working very badly against her in recent moc. before that 4% hp drain didn’t feel like a lot cause enemies didn’t hit as hard so you could just heal it back off but because enemies now deal a million damage and attack very frequently having that extra 4% hp drain on ALL teammates except jingliu when everyone is already on the brink of death feels absolutely horrible and very risky to play, not even my best healers are able to keep up with the amount of damage taken nowadays luocha and huohuo struggle to keep my team healthy now even tho they’re my best built units. it wouldn’t be a problem if i was using a preservation unit like aventurine since he could just block off the damage taken but jingliu has anti-synergy with preservation so… what now.
i really think jingliu was set up from the start by hoyoverse, from her self buffs not being enough to compensate her multipliers and also leading to diminishing return with atk and crit rate buffs buffs and her action forward abilities and multiple actions making buffs relient on her turn run out faster down to the fact her team wide hp drain is a detriment in new moc and having anti-synergy with preservation units and every new support. RIP jingliu, once considered the goddess of brute force quickly became an unfortunate victim of powercreep, i’ll still continue to use her in every new content until it’s practically impossible and pull new supports to try to make her better but it is impossible to deny she fell off. bad.
I just hope once we get more characters in the future who have similar kits to her or Blade, we'll eventually see them (and Luocha) getting the buffs they deserve along with a resurgence in usage again.
"now where with the exact same investment as before she barely scratches the enemy’s hp in only the spam of a few months is just baffling" realest shit ever
I just want to tell you , I read all that and tbh I also invested so much in her that I don't wanna let her go but we gave to.
Stay strong !
1 or 2 Teamate buffs for her and blade and they are so back, just as we seen for Fua and Dot. We just gotta hope it happens soon tho
@@yun3_ exactly her potential is still up in the air i choose believe hsr devs will revisit the “hp drain/consumption mechanic” sooner or later cause even the longevous disciple set specifically mentions on its 4pc hp consumption from another unit, but right now they’re going through a break and fua phase so we’ll have to wait
The current team I play her with is double DPS w/ Blade, Ruan Mei and Huohuo, and works pretty ok for me
maybe a future sustain will support a life drain comp to make this team go brrr
your voice is so nice
tyty :)
Still use her with bronya, sparkle, and huohuo, probably because she's the only other good DPS that I have and is well built.
i recommend you take out bronya or sparkle if u can and replace with another support. just bc u cant really stack both buffs at the same time :)
i wonder what is with mihoyo and ice elements, it fell off in hsr, fell off in genshin, now im concerned of ellen in zenless.
Ellen will fall off for sure, especially now that her team cannot be upgraded in any way possible, while zhu yuan has yet to have qinyi and jane doe has to have a full physical team
I'm just saying, with Natlan and maybe the pyro archon, (Bennet+XL+Dehya). Melt gonna be back in business >:)
@@djampoucheukap1742 yeah.. she should be in up meta until 2.0 i think.
@@yun3_ we do need that off field pyro character, its been 4 years and xiangling is the only one.
@@maheee dehya😢
Its the same problem with my e2 danIL, i am still using a stone age relic set because no new basic att relic set for him, but he still can compete because of new support like sparkle, and maybe a new 5 star tingyun will help danIL more, the last time i am using jing liu is when aventurine in moc, after that i never use it because my dot team perform far better than her
with us getting new planars in 2.5, that means new relics in 2.6. lets just hope our mains get the love they deserve ;-;
Powercreep is a scary thing in this game, I’m worried my favorite characters will soon never be able to clear endgame content
@@insertnamehere2022 I think Hsr has done a rly gud job with keeping power creep in check, besides 1.3/4. as long as they release the right supports, i think or dps’ will be fine :)
I'm still clearing MoC 12 and Apocalyptic Shadow 4 with Monocuantum Seele so...
Maybe they will be a strong Powercreep in another year 😅
@@Yawar25 do u mind telling me how u perform in MOC 12? my friend who uses mono quantum just says it sucks, but thats only 1 person
@@yun3_ Well, if you want to 0 cycle, Monocuantum sucks 😂
After finally getting Hanabi, my Seele team gets me constantly 5 cycles maximum, so I have another 5 cycles for my other team.
But I only can use Monocuantum at the floor that have a Elite boss (for example Kafka, Aventurine or even Argenti), and maybe if there are two bosses.
More than three enemies, Monocuantum also sucks 😅
I only have DoTs and FuA teams (No Acheron or Firefly), so Monocuantum covers me the floor that I don't have Elemental advantage. Is not the best optimized account, but is very fun to me 😊
Ty for breaking it down :). I hope quantum gets some more buffs so u can comfortably clear
I play the Jingliu team with Bronya, Sparkle, Gallagher (since him and Fu Xuan are my only worthy sustains) and when I try to clear MoC it's just pure agony. Even my S1 Sparkle's buffs are not enough, and I do the proper rotation all the time too. Jingliu, Bronya, Sparkle have the traces tree fully leveled and upgraded (excluding basics) and it's still not enough, my damage barely goes above 100k and that's even worse considering MoC has literally close to no Ice Weak enemies. My Jingliu did more damage in Ruan Mei Bronya team but my Ruan Mei is locked in my DoT team (which is yet to receive Black Swan as the final piece) and I can't afford Robin right now
dang. I'd recommend u try pela instead of sparkle or bronya. cuz u wont be able to combine both buffs cuz their buffs wear off when u use the other's skill 👍
Short answer: powercreep
Even more 0 support to the character. No relic set, no offensive support
@@oniceguard9205it’s honestly sad they clearly see how popular of a character she is but proceeds to do nothing with her but maybe she’ll show up in the story and can somewhat have a reason to indirect buff her
Damn,. I loves playing JL. the only reason why I stopped using her is the team, there is nobody for her at the moment
man, hopefully tingyun 2.0 or something can bring our JL back into the spotlight
@@yun3_ she's probably nihility, which doesn't make any sense, but.
she did get her neck snapped lol. if it was even her.
life drain is pretty destruction like, but hey, maybe it can be a nihility gimmick too
''Jingliu received no supports during pennacony''
Meanwhile Robin exists :(
Yeah, Robin is actually better than Ruan Mei in Jingliu team
@@rezaabiyoso1855 This is the biggest cope I've ever seen.
Robin has a 2 turn downtime, considering you run a atk boots and and er rope then jingliu takes around 3-4 turns without ult buffs. Not only that but because there a not alot of ice weak mobs ruan mei's ice pen is INCREADIBLY STRONG. Finally robin buffs her onyl by 20% crit and considering bronya also buffs crit and jingliu also buffs her own crit it isn't as good. Finally if you are using bronya robin makes you lose so much sp that you will have some turns where it's either jingliu skill or bronya skill. Lastly in robin bronya and sustain team robin personnel damage will suffer due to not being buffed and the amount of the attacks being very low.
@@AlwaysThirstys From personal testing and the Prydwen MoC data Robin is clearing the current MoC faster than Ruan Mei in Jingliu teams.
@@rezaabiyoso1855 Not just Robin. Even Sparkle performs better than Ruan Mei in Jingliu teams. Ruan Mei is better served in other teams, such as dual DPS or Break team.
Yeah the reliance on Ruan Mei is so painful for her. Especially since I have E1 Ruan Mei who everyone wants.
My other main team is a DoT comp which arguably wants Ruan Mei a lot more. Since she gives everything they need. And she fixes their rotations by giving just enough spd.
i you have a robin, i would highly recommend trying that out :)
same could be said for Blade. I'm looking forward to new supports for both Blade and QueenLiu
we just add a furina in this game and all the doubters will eat their shoes >:)
This is exactly what the problem is. Thank you for the video. Hoping in the future she gets what she deserves
She was my first 5 star and the character i Always consider as my "main " and the best advice i can give is just get sparkle and run her on ATK boots , you can run both bronya and sparke if you're crazy
i tried atk boots with no sparkle/ bronya bronya and it is not it. wish i had a sparkle to try it out tho
ik u can do sparkle bronya with argenti pretty well cuz u can ult right before its ur turn with both buffs. but the last time ive seen those 2 together on yt was like 2 months ago
@@yun3_ with a 160 sparkle on a dance dance dance you get basically the same amount of actions you would get with a mid speed bronya and jingliu so if you happened to pull her i strongly recommend it
oh gotchu. i honestly will hold out on sparkle and robin ;-; im am praying to hoyo that the op t-0 hp drain support comes
As a Jingliu main
We need a support character specifically for her
And a relic set
Im hoping this because hoyo also mentioned Jingliu multiple times in the a Xianzhou story
Probably foreshadowing her return
So im hoping a new calyx with the relic she needs somewhere in the future
im just like we are on the xianzhou RN. if you don’t use this time to buff JL or dhil. >:(
7:22 i kinda feel atacked since my bronya is E5 and will soon be E6 . I keep losing my 50/50s . I didnt win a single 50/50 in penacony . I won fu xuan rm and JQ banner so far but i also always get my 5* very late🫠. Btw i have been playing since week 1 of launch and spend a bit of money
@@40WarlocksJulian W and L? though losing sucks balls, i honestly would love an e6 bronya ;-; my luck in this game also is not the best. it just goes to my relic rolls instead of
honestly with their method of nerfing and buffing basically being adding new characters, someone was bound to get the short end of the stick
i honestly dont mind this way of buffing as long as more characters get a chance to shine
@yun3_ I agree, recently speaking the release of sparkle, and Robin reinvigorated character like DHIL and made dual fua teams really good
@@etheriusnebuli8808 hp drain when >:( make arlan op
They really need to make a set that specializes in powering enhanced basic atk.
A set for DHIL and QQ would be nice
I want an sp negative harmony that gives insane buffs based on sp consumed
this totally could be a thing and could bring back arlan too lol