I've wanted a camera with some way of taking 6x17cm images since I bought David Meunch's book on panoramic photography 30+ years ago. Still don't have one. I did recently pick up a 4x10" view camera and a couple of film holders, and hope to start working with it soon. I have a winter trip planned to northern Arizona and southern Utah maybe in January or February, depending on the weather. I've always wanted to do the North Rim in snow. We'll see.
Wow! A 4x10 camera! That sounds like a fun camera to use. One thing to remember about the North Rim is that the very first winter storm signals the closing of the park. I appreciate your support. Thanks for watching!😀
What a nice idea: 11-year review, none of those reviews after one photo session. Interesting to see, I'v been considering one for years but the drawbacks.. I've been so happy with my 15 or so yrs old DaYi 6x12 back. If I had a 5x7 camera I'd probably have got one as 6x17 back for 5x7 camera uses normal ground glass and can use any focal length. One often overlooked method for panos is a dark slide that has been cut in half. I got one ready made such for my 4x5 allowing me to shoot 2x5 panos, two shots per sheet. Not quite 6x17 but wider than my 6x12 back gets me. Easy to make one yourself too and weights nothing. Easy to carry with just in case too. Cuts film cost by 50% too when you get 2 panos per sheet instead of one crop. The drawback of cur darkslide is funky viewing angle as you need to use rise/fall heavily. That makes viewing ground glass not as nice. A half cut darkslide would allow using 8x10 for more resolusion too with 4x10 panos and should cost nothing but a piece of plastic to cut.
There is also a decent economical 6x17 camera system Chroma Six17 from Steve Lloyd. Lee Pengelly is sharing his experience with the camera here. I bought one even been charged with VAT from UK export.
@@RadovanFaltus There are couple of those, I think some other brand had rise too (that I find very useful). They have pretty large drawbacks like large lens cones you need per lens and if you shoot with other large format cameras, you cannot share lenses like with lens boards.
@@hoggif That is right, limitations are there. I am sticked with 90mm lens, if I wanted to switch between focal lengths, i would carry another lens plus a cone combo. Still however you do have focusing on screen precision and exchangable film backs, cool for the price.
Great video, and thanks so much for the shout out Tony! Love those Zion panos, makes me want to get back out there and burn some rolls of 120. You'll have to show me a good food spot or two around Vegas next time I'm coming through!
I've been very happy with 1/2 dark slide from interpid on a 4x5 camera. Gives you around 125x45mm negatives (1:2.78). No lens limitations. 4 shots per 4x5 sheet film holder seems like a great alternative to 6x17 and is in fact a much more compact setup than my horseman 6x12 roll film holder.
I bought one of these backs for my 4X5 Crown Graphic back in 2017. I took the setup to the Alabama Hills in the Eastern Sierras (California) to capture the sunrise in the boulders. I did get some stunning results but have not used the combo since. My issues are these, I don't have the wall space for 4-6ft wide print to give it proper justice and secondly, social media is just not the right place to show off the results effectively and finally, I don't want or need the hassle of selling prints. However there is hope, enough time has passed that I'm feeling the need to give it another try just for the challenge. Thanks for the video.
Thank you for sharing your story with us. Having a purpose for the photographs we take is a challenge I’ve grappled with. It definitely has made me more selective. I appreciate your support. 😎
I love the Pro 400H image that you mentioned had light glow reflecting within the park. Especially that bottom image - just wow, beautiful. I also think that magenta hue of the expired film looks great!
A word on the 75mm lens for 6x17: It works pretty well with this back (I have used it for a while) and is pretty much the lower end of the focal length range you can use with these backs. Maybe the 72mm lenses will work, too. Only thing is: You need a camera which can handle these lenses, I used it on a Wista with a wide angle bellows. I eventually sold my back because I didn't like the handling, although I love panoramic images. Using a 5x7" camera with such a back is probably a good alternative way to go. I never thought about it.
I've had the Dayi 617 back for about a year now and I've had two real problems with it. One is it can get a light leak through the dark slide slit. I just don't remove it all the way now. The other is I have not been able to leave a roll in the back for any length of time as the roll gets loose and fat rolls on me. I've adjusted the metal tabs inside but it doesn't really help. I wish it had some kind of ratchet system so the roll could not roll backwards and loosen up or at least a knob on the left side so I could tension the film. My favorite lenses are my 135 Nikkor and 90mm Rodenstock. I have to use a recessed lens board on the 90mm to achieve infinity focus but it works and I also have the center filter for it. BTW if you have a 5x7 camera laying around they do make a 617 back for that and you will not have issues with the frame getting cut off by the rear standard on any lens.
Jason, That's an excellent point! I often forget about the 5x7 format because I don't own one but that would definitely be a good solution to the back limiting the exposure of the film. I appreciate you taking the time to share with us. 😃
Hi Tony, Thanks for another informative and entertaining video. I routinely print 20 inch X 60 inch archival pigment prints with good result. My experience is that biggest factor relating to apparent sharpness is the viewing distance. Since my large images are viewed from 5 to 6 feet away, they appear tack sharp. This of course won't apply to other photographers who will invariably view your ridiculously large print from several inches away!
4x5, 8x10? Many years ago I purchased a 5x7 Korona built in the 1920's with full front and rear movements. Film choices are limited, but my 4 3/8" (111mm) Dagor provides perfect coverage and gives me full 17 width. I just crop the top and bottom as appropriate to compose the image. Strange, but I also like the 450mm Nikkor on the 5x7. Very interesting perspective. Because it is a 5x7 there is no rear standard interference. Also the 5x7 is much lighter than the 8x10. Thanks once again for the GREAT video.
The Shen Hao 6x17 is an amazing camera. I did consider buying a panel back to go on my 4x5, but had the money to get the real thing. I don't have a single regret because it rapidly became my default field camera, so my 4x5 has increasingly been left at home. It helps that 120 film is cheaper and I can buy a much wider variety of stocks. I do need to buy a different lens, either a 115 or 90mm, but I'm not sure which to get. I'm in no rush though.
amazing video! I've been thinking about getting into panoramas myself, it's just soo expensive! and funnily enough, this video just so happened to answer my question whether (and if to which degree) 6x17 would work on a 4x5 (roughly 9x12, mind you!) camera. are you sure that the frames somewhere around 15:50 were actually shot on velvia? the edge markings read "RDPIII", pointing to provia
Cool! I'm glad that this video was helpful. Film rebate can be confusing. If you look a "050" near some of the triangles indicating Velvia 50. It was my only roll that I had left in my freezer so I am 100% positive. I appreciate your support. 😎
There's hum underlying the audio track (I'm listening with good headphones); easy to fix in post, but YT doesn't provide the option to just exchange the video. Regarding an alternative to a 6x17 back on a 4x5 camera - a 5x7 camera, since it gives the full 17 cm, even with longer focal lengths. The format is a bit "exotic", though, and film stocks in this format are limited. Still something to consider (smaller and more light-weight than 8x10, but larger than 4x5). An interesting side note on 5x7: its ratio of 1.4 resembles the ISO A formats (1.414, the square root of 2).
I’ve been trying to figure out why I have that hum. It’s been happening since I switched to a shotgun mic. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks for your support.😎
@@tonysantophotography Sounds like shielding or grounding issues (not uncommon). Depends on how you connect the microphone, and your AD converter (microphone input box or whatever you use). Hard to explain, because I'm German and do have problems with the US terminology in this field (I studied electrical engineering in the early 80s, and it was all German at this point ;-)). First step could be to just use another cable. A quick fix is to just use the appropriate filter in your audio processing (a 60 Hz notch for the US, I'd say, but most software has a specialized hum filter; since your voice does not contain such low frequencies, it should be a viable solution).
@@c.augustin Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried different cables at varying price points but they all perform the same. I'll look into a filter. Thanks again! Tony
Do you get noticeable vignetting with rise and fall? I have a Tomiyama 617 with a 90mm Super Angulon and not having rise is what kills it for me. I could swap it for an adapter back maybe ...
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Stunning video and contribute for the community of Large & Ultra Large Format Photography,many thanks Tony!
Thanks Nat! I appreciate your ongoing support!
I've wanted a camera with some way of taking 6x17cm images since I bought David Meunch's book on panoramic photography 30+ years ago. Still don't have one. I did recently pick up a 4x10" view camera and a couple of film holders, and hope to start working with it soon. I have a winter trip planned to northern Arizona and southern Utah maybe in January or February, depending on the weather. I've always wanted to do the North Rim in snow. We'll see.
Wow! A 4x10 camera! That sounds like a fun camera to use. One thing to remember about the North Rim is that the very first winter storm signals the closing of the park. I appreciate your support. Thanks for watching!😀
What a nice idea: 11-year review, none of those reviews after one photo session. Interesting to see, I'v been considering one for years but the drawbacks.. I've been so happy with my 15 or so yrs old DaYi 6x12 back. If I had a 5x7 camera I'd probably have got one as 6x17 back for 5x7 camera uses normal ground glass and can use any focal length.
One often overlooked method for panos is a dark slide that has been cut in half. I got one ready made such for my 4x5 allowing me to shoot 2x5 panos, two shots per sheet. Not quite 6x17 but wider than my 6x12 back gets me. Easy to make one yourself too and weights nothing. Easy to carry with just in case too. Cuts film cost by 50% too when you get 2 panos per sheet instead of one crop.
The drawback of cur darkslide is funky viewing angle as you need to use rise/fall heavily. That makes viewing ground glass not as nice.
A half cut darkslide would allow using 8x10 for more resolusion too with 4x10 panos and should cost nothing but a piece of plastic to cut.
Yes, this is my preference: 6x17 flat back from DaYi on 5x7 camera, technically clean.
That's a very good point! The 5x7 wouldn't limit you like the 4x5. Thanks for your support!😃
There is also a decent economical 6x17 camera system Chroma Six17 from Steve Lloyd. Lee Pengelly is sharing his experience with the camera here. I bought one even been charged with VAT from UK export.
@@RadovanFaltus There are couple of those, I think some other brand had rise too (that I find very useful). They have pretty large drawbacks like large lens cones you need per lens and if you shoot with other large format cameras, you cannot share lenses like with lens boards.
@@hoggif That is right, limitations are there. I am sticked with 90mm lens, if I wanted to switch between focal lengths, i would carry another lens plus a cone combo. Still however you do have focusing on screen precision and exchangable film backs, cool for the price.
Great video, and thanks so much for the shout out Tony! Love those Zion panos, makes me want to get back out there and burn some rolls of 120. You'll have to show me a good food spot or two around Vegas next time I'm coming through!
Thanks Chris! I appreciate the kind words. Whenever you get hungry, I think we could find a decent place to eat in Las Vegas.😂
I've been very happy with 1/2 dark slide from interpid on a 4x5 camera. Gives you around 125x45mm negatives (1:2.78). No lens limitations. 4 shots per 4x5 sheet film holder seems like a great alternative to 6x17 and is in fact a much more compact setup than my horseman 6x12 roll film holder.
Good idea. Thank you for sharing with all of us!😎
As always, super informative and entertaining.
Thank you my friend! I appreciate your support! 😃
As always thanks for the tips, great video
Thanks James! I appreciate your ongoing support. 😃
I bought one of these backs for my 4X5 Crown Graphic back in 2017. I took the setup to the Alabama Hills in the Eastern Sierras (California) to capture the sunrise in the boulders. I did get some stunning results but have not used the combo since. My issues are these, I don't have the wall space for 4-6ft wide print to give it proper justice and secondly, social media is just not the right place to show off the results effectively and finally, I don't want or need the hassle of selling prints. However there is hope, enough time has passed that I'm feeling the need to give it another try just for the challenge. Thanks for the video.
Thank you for sharing your story with us. Having a purpose for the photographs we take is a challenge I’ve grappled with. It definitely has made me more selective. I appreciate your support. 😎
I love the Pro 400H image that you mentioned had light glow reflecting within the park. Especially that bottom image - just wow, beautiful. I also think that magenta hue of the expired film looks great!
Thank you Jay! I appreciate your support! 😃
A word on the 75mm lens for 6x17: It works pretty well with this back (I have used it for a while) and is pretty much the lower end of the focal length range you can use with these backs. Maybe the 72mm lenses will work, too. Only thing is: You need a camera which can handle these lenses, I used it on a Wista with a wide angle bellows. I eventually sold my back because I didn't like the handling, although I love panoramic images. Using a 5x7" camera with such a back is probably a good alternative way to go. I never thought about it.
Thank you for sharing with us! I appreciate your support!😎
I've had the Dayi 617 back for about a year now and I've had two real problems with it. One is it can get a light leak through the dark slide slit. I just don't remove it all the way now. The other is I have not been able to leave a roll in the back for any length of time as the roll gets loose and fat rolls on me. I've adjusted the metal tabs inside but it doesn't really help. I wish it had some kind of ratchet system so the roll could not roll backwards and loosen up or at least a knob on the left side so I could tension the film. My favorite lenses are my 135 Nikkor and 90mm Rodenstock. I have to use a recessed lens board on the 90mm to achieve infinity focus but it works and I also have the center filter for it. BTW if you have a 5x7 camera laying around they do make a 617 back for that and you will not have issues with the frame getting cut off by the rear standard on any lens.
Jason, That's an excellent point! I often forget about the 5x7 format because I don't own one but that would definitely be a good solution to the back limiting the exposure of the film. I appreciate you taking the time to share with us. 😃
So nice follow up!
Thank you my friend! 😎
Hi Tony, Thanks for another informative and entertaining video. I routinely print 20 inch X 60 inch archival pigment prints with good result. My experience is that biggest factor relating to apparent sharpness is the viewing distance. Since my large images are viewed from 5 to 6 feet away, they appear tack sharp. This of course won't apply to other photographers who will invariably view your ridiculously large print from several inches away!
Awesome! There's something special to seeing your work printed. I appreciate your support and encouragement of "ridiculous" humor! 😂
4x5, 8x10? Many years ago I purchased a 5x7 Korona built in the 1920's with full front and rear movements. Film choices are limited, but my 4 3/8" (111mm) Dagor provides perfect coverage and gives me full 17 width. I just crop the top and bottom as appropriate to compose the image. Strange, but I also like the 450mm Nikkor on the 5x7. Very interesting perspective. Because it is a 5x7 there is no rear standard interference. Also the 5x7 is much lighter than the 8x10. Thanks once again for the GREAT video.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing with all of us! I appreciate your support.
The Shen Hao 6x17 is an amazing camera. I did consider buying a panel back to go on my 4x5, but had the money to get the real thing. I don't have a single regret because it rapidly became my default field camera, so my 4x5 has increasingly been left at home. It helps that 120 film is cheaper and I can buy a much wider variety of stocks. I do need to buy a different lens, either a 115 or 90mm, but I'm not sure which to get. I'm in no rush though.
Awesome! That's a tough decision to choose between those lenses. I appreciate you taking the time to share with us. 😃
amazing video! I've been thinking about getting into panoramas myself, it's just soo expensive! and funnily enough, this video just so happened to answer my question whether (and if to which degree) 6x17 would work on a 4x5 (roughly 9x12, mind you!) camera.
are you sure that the frames somewhere around 15:50 were actually shot on velvia? the edge markings read "RDPIII", pointing to provia
Cool! I'm glad that this video was helpful. Film rebate can be confusing. If you look a "050" near some of the triangles indicating Velvia 50. It was my only roll that I had left in my freezer so I am 100% positive. I appreciate your support. 😎
@@tonysantophotography ooohhhhh, didn't notice that!
I started with this back but then I liked the format so much that I have purchased a Shen Hao SH617 which is easier to work with. Expensive, yes
So cool! Thank you for sharing your experience with us. I appreciate your support! 😀
There's hum underlying the audio track (I'm listening with good headphones); easy to fix in post, but YT doesn't provide the option to just exchange the video. Regarding an alternative to a 6x17 back on a 4x5 camera - a 5x7 camera, since it gives the full 17 cm, even with longer focal lengths. The format is a bit "exotic", though, and film stocks in this format are limited. Still something to consider (smaller and more light-weight than 8x10, but larger than 4x5). An interesting side note on 5x7: its ratio of 1.4 resembles the ISO A formats (1.414, the square root of 2).
I’ve been trying to figure out why I have that hum. It’s been happening since I switched to a shotgun mic. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks for your support.😎
@@tonysantophotography Sounds like shielding or grounding issues (not uncommon). Depends on how you connect the microphone, and your AD converter (microphone input box or whatever you use). Hard to explain, because I'm German and do have problems with the US terminology in this field (I studied electrical engineering in the early 80s, and it was all German at this point ;-)). First step could be to just use another cable. A quick fix is to just use the appropriate filter in your audio processing (a 60 Hz notch for the US, I'd say, but most software has a specialized hum filter; since your voice does not contain such low frequencies, it should be a viable solution).
@@c.augustin Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried different cables at varying price points but they all perform the same. I'll look into a filter. Thanks again! Tony
Do you get noticeable vignetting with rise and fall? I have a Tomiyama 617 with a 90mm Super Angulon and not having rise is what kills it for me. I could swap it for an adapter back maybe ...
Hi Roger. That’s a great question. I usually don’t use rise and fall with 6x17 but I can’t recall any problems when I did. Thanks for watching!😎
It's a great video~!
Thanks very much! I appreciate your support!
I get a hum all the way through this video.
Yes. I am trying to source the problem but haven't figured it out yet. I appreciate your patience.😎