Love how you had to sort of confirm that you weren't leaking classified info when talking about the sonobuoys, really giving me the War Thunder vibe. Great video as always.
Yeah there are some out there who just assume a lot of things could be potentially classified so I feel the need to reassure them. Here is the brochure I was talking about: umaritime.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/SSQ-53F-DIFAR-Sonobuoy-Feb-2024.pdf
Hey Ryu, you're doing great. Wolfpacks being going for years and i love his content, but you are teaching me some stuff he's a little fuzzy about, being a sub sim specialist. When are we going to see some Ryu missons? ;)
Yeah I've been watching him for a long time as well. I'd love to make missions but I sadly don't have the time however I do plan on showing more user created scenarios I really enjoy like this and Point Intercept. The next one I'll probably show is a very good realistic ASW scenario.
Thanks! I don't think the sub was deep enough to not be detected if we look at apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA281747.pdf PDF page 29 and 30 modelling WWII diesel boat sizes, we can see the ranges potentially being 500m. It is true the sea state increase would cause an increase in noise but I find MAD in this game to be lacking in range compared to what I see in documents. Here from the SH-2F course revision apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA065925.pdf on pdf page 35 you can see what they label as a realistic question with the SH-2 in scenario getting a MAD hit at 500ft. These greater altitudes is what I would expect to see. It is also tactically significant in the game because you can get more radar coverage while you do your MAD search at higher alts.
@@advorak8529 excellent question you can read more about it here: apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA326102.pdf Basically the waves have electric current due to the motion of the sea in the earth's mag field this is kinda like a giant generator and it produces noise that will degrade MAD performance.
Have watched Wolfpacks uboat vids for quite a while and it is helpful and very entertaining but you bring a unique insight like Sub Brief which adds so much to my game play.
The ASROC was never going to acquire the sub 2 miles from touchdown as it - like the helicopter launched ones - go into a circle search pattern (and I believe they should descend in that spiral), they do not go scoot off in the launch/touchdown direction until they find something. While I have no doubt the torpedo could be made to behave that way, this is clearly not simulated.
I have had it where the torp does get a sniff of the noisemaker and then heads that direction so I still use this method if the asroc max range is close-ish to the target.
You have really valuable knowledge, great video! If you could show more examples of formation management in a future video, it would be much appreciated
So with the long range missile combat. If you use passive, aerial, and/or subsurface assets to locate one of those Kirov's. Could one not just skurt the edge of its range to try and tease out its missiles then dart back out of range? In effect, using its range against it?
Yeah I don’t see why not if you know for sure where they are you can figure out the range of the missile from them much like we do with torpedoes and keep yourself out of that range after baiting a shot but you have to be mindful of the time cus those missiles go fast you need to detect the launch and start running out of range.
@ryu1940 that's where super long range missiles are weaker. Fast yes, but distance is distance. You might then calculate how long it takes to get to you then only stay in range for say 3/4's of the time. Thus even if they launched as soon as you entered range, physics says they miss. That'd be the time they have some new ER variant of course.
Quick question, does the weather solely affect the sonar conditions, or will it have an effect on flight crew performance as well? I'd imagine that zipping around under a CB as active as that in the video would surely distract the crew a bit...
Assuming it's not a secret, are sonobuoys recoverable? Does the Navy ever pick used buoys up to recharge and use again? I mean, the military has a lot of expensive single-use equipment, but it seems like sonobuoys *could* be recovered and used again.
It is not a secret the sonobuoys scuttle themselves after the time has elapsed. They are not recoverable if you look up sonobuoy contracts from the gov they prices seem to vary from 800-10,000 per buoy depending on type and it still isn't worth the amount of time that would be necessary to recover the sonobuoy, ship it back to a refurb site, refurb it, repack it, send it back out to the fleet etc.
The WWII sonobuoys (passive omnidirectional using FM) would last for about 4 hours and sink in 6-12 hours (iirc) by use of slowly dissolving plug in a plug hole.
I was wondering if it is possible for a surface ship to "illuminate" a target with active sonar and then the torpedo to track it without pinging away itself?
Pre video comment: There is a stock scenario that is hunting a stray sub in poor conditions. Only ever found a small flotilla of "neutral" Russian ships. It's a nightmare and gets boring fast so hopefully I can pick up tips from this
@@boruta1034 Oh yeah probably Crimson Tide that one I think has some choppy seas, I believe Charlies is a nice clear day. I think in the recent patch they fixed the Crimson Tide mission so I may check it out in a video! Previously there was no marker for the player to see where the launch point was. I am glad to see that fixed.
@@ryu1940 Yeah Crimson Tide. On paper its a great mission, but the wide open area (even with regions mapped out with way points) just makes the entire thing a huge drag.
Hey, why don't you ask the Barney to leave the AO and let the SH-2F carry to ASW ? So you ship is safe from the Soviet sub, wouldn't it be safer ? And does it applies to real situation ? Of course in SP, sub are hostile, in real life, I've been told they mostly try to evade ASW ^^. Thanks for the high quality content, we learn a lot of pretty interesting things from it :)
Thanks! At first I was trying to build space to get out of the torpedo range when we detected the submarine but the ROE states we cannot fire unless fired upon so I had to purposely drive towards the submarine to get him to shoot at me then it would allow me to engage. In this particular scenario I was also hoping to get a kill with the submarine using a ship weapon because I know the sonar ranges are very bad and I am only detecting him from the helicopter so it is possible if I am careful I can close within weapons range and shoot. I was also doing this because I only had one helicopter and I wanted to save any of their torpedoes for additional submarines. But yes, ideally you want to keep space and use the helicopter to kill everything it is just in this scenario you are constrained by the ROE.
@@ryu1940 Oh boy I didn't have to wait for them to fire on me for long. I'm trying to be all clever and harassing the first one when a bunch of wave homing torps suddenly appear from somewhere else. Ivan's rules of engagement were clearly more flexible than mine.
"Relax Commodore, the Barney will never fire first; but if he fire's one, I'll fire one..."
"Fire One!!!"
Love how you had to sort of confirm that you weren't leaking classified info when talking about the sonobuoys, really giving me the War Thunder vibe. Great video as always.
Yeah there are some out there who just assume a lot of things could be potentially classified so I feel the need to reassure them. Here is the brochure I was talking about: umaritime.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/SSQ-53F-DIFAR-Sonobuoy-Feb-2024.pdf
Hey Ryu, you're doing great. Wolfpacks being going for years and i love his content, but you are teaching me some stuff he's a little fuzzy about, being a sub sim specialist.
When are we going to see some Ryu missons? ;)
Yeah I've been watching him for a long time as well. I'd love to make missions but I sadly don't have the time however I do plan on showing more user created scenarios I really enjoy like this and Point Intercept. The next one I'll probably show is a very good realistic ASW scenario.
The reason of MAD not being able to detect the sub might be that the sub was deep and the sea state is really bad. Nice Content ! Keep Up !!
Thanks! I don't think the sub was deep enough to not be detected if we look at apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA281747.pdf PDF page 29 and 30 modelling WWII diesel boat sizes, we can see the ranges potentially being 500m. It is true the sea state increase would cause an increase in noise but I find MAD in this game to be lacking in range compared to what I see in documents. Here from the SH-2F course revision apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA065925.pdf on pdf page 35 you can see what they label as a realistic question with the SH-2 in scenario getting a MAD hit at 500ft. These greater altitudes is what I would expect to see. It is also tactically significant in the game because you can get more radar coverage while you do your MAD search at higher alts.
@@ryu1940 Wow ! I got enlightened, thanks for correction. Much appreciated.
No problem!
How does estate disturb the magnetic field of the Earth?
@@advorak8529 excellent question you can read more about it here: apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA326102.pdf
Basically the waves have electric current due to the motion of the sea in the earth's mag field this is kinda like a giant generator and it produces noise that will degrade MAD performance.
Have watched Wolfpacks uboat vids for quite a while and it is helpful and very entertaining but you bring a unique insight like Sub Brief which adds so much to my game play.
Thank you!
The ASROC was never going to acquire the sub 2 miles from touchdown as it - like the helicopter launched ones - go into a circle search pattern (and I believe they should descend in that spiral), they do not go scoot off in the launch/touchdown direction until they find something.
While I have no doubt the torpedo could be made to behave that way, this is clearly not simulated.
I have had it where the torp does get a sniff of the noisemaker and then heads that direction so I still use this method if the asroc max range is close-ish to the target.
Whoot whoot. I'll save this for lunch.
This was a really fun scenario to play.
Totally agree!
Great video as usual, very informative and refreshing. Learned a good deal! Thanks! … and looking for more 😀👍
Thank you! I’m glad to hear you found it informative. I love little ASW scenarios like this.
You have really valuable knowledge, great video! If you could show more examples of formation management in a future video, it would be much appreciated
Thank you, I'll try my best to mention formation stuff when I can
Nice video to watch for lunch!
Going through the comments of this where Ryu has responded, links to some really good resources
thanks!
Ryu is your favorite TH-camr's favorite TH-camr
🤣💯
I'm not following lol wut
@ryu1940 Popular youtubers watch you to learn real tactics and get ideas on content, is what he's saying.
@@vaughn1804 ohhh I get it now lol thank you
so from a sub pov, how do you not die in this situation? Would love a video like that. Also I like your style and how you explain things. Great stuff!
Oh that would be a good idea, I can just play the reverse side I think by messing with it in the mission editor.
2 minutes gang!
So with the long range missile combat. If you use passive, aerial, and/or subsurface assets to locate one of those Kirov's.
Could one not just skurt the edge of its range to try and tease out its missiles then dart back out of range?
In effect, using its range against it?
Yeah I don’t see why not if you
know for sure where they are you can figure out the range of the missile from them much like we do with torpedoes and keep yourself out of that range after baiting a shot but you have to be mindful of the time cus those missiles go fast you need to detect the launch and start running out of range.
@ryu1940 that's where super long range missiles are weaker. Fast yes, but distance is distance.
You might then calculate how long it takes to get to you then only stay in range for say 3/4's of the time. Thus even if they launched as soon as you entered range, physics says they miss.
That'd be the time they have some new ER variant of course.
Quick question, does the weather solely affect the sonar conditions, or will it have an effect on flight crew performance as well? I'd imagine that zipping around under a CB as active as that in the video would surely distract the crew a bit...
The weather doesn't appear to affect flight ops in the game, I think to some degree it should.
Assuming it's not a secret, are sonobuoys recoverable? Does the Navy ever pick used buoys up to recharge and use again? I mean, the military has a lot of expensive single-use equipment, but it seems like sonobuoys *could* be recovered and used again.
It is not a secret the sonobuoys scuttle themselves after the time has elapsed. They are not recoverable if you look up sonobuoy contracts from the gov they prices seem to vary from 800-10,000 per buoy depending on type and it still isn't worth the amount of time that would be necessary to recover the sonobuoy, ship it back to a refurb site, refurb it, repack it, send it back out to the fleet etc.
The WWII sonobuoys (passive omnidirectional using FM) would last for about 4 hours and sink in 6-12 hours (iirc) by use of slowly dissolving plug in a plug hole.
Stupid question, if an Asroc lands in the water and goes active... right in front of the oncoming enemy torpedo.... can it essentially intercept it?
@@jamesscott2894 I haven’t seen that in the game so I don’t know. For IRL stuff I can’t speak to that.
I do know the navy was working on anti-torpedo torpedo's but IIRC they were a bust.
I would imagine not good for fleet formations.
I do know the navy was working on anti-torpedo torpedo's but IIRC they were a bust.
I would imagine not good for fleet formations.
I was wondering if it is possible for a surface ship to "illuminate" a target with active sonar and then the torpedo to track it without pinging away itself?
Wolfpack345 makes great content.
Still I think he could learn a thing or two from ya.
He certainly does make great stuff I enjoy watching his channel!
@@ryu1940 especially WW2 sub content
@ryu1940 but if I really want to learn to fight, I come here. Subbrief is good too for modern subsurface.
He was a sonarman on a Los Angeles class.
Pre video comment:
There is a stock scenario that is hunting a stray sub in poor conditions.
Only ever found a small flotilla of "neutral" Russian ships.
It's a nightmare and gets boring fast so hopefully I can pick up tips from this
Do you happen to know which mission that was?
@@ryu1940 I haven't played that scenario yet, but by reading the description, it may be Crimson Tide or Charlies.
@@boruta1034 Oh yeah probably Crimson Tide that one I think has some choppy seas, I believe Charlies is a nice clear day. I think in the recent patch they fixed the Crimson Tide mission so I may check it out in a video! Previously there was no marker for the player to see where the launch point was. I am glad to see that fixed.
@@ryu1940 Yeah Crimson Tide.
On paper its a great mission, but the wide open area (even with regions mapped out with way points) just makes the entire thing a huge drag.
Hey, why don't you ask the Barney to leave the AO and let the SH-2F carry to ASW ? So you ship is safe from the Soviet sub, wouldn't it be safer ? And does it applies to real situation ? Of course in SP, sub are hostile, in real life, I've been told they mostly try to evade ASW ^^.
Thanks for the high quality content, we learn a lot of pretty interesting things from it :)
Thanks! At first I was trying to build space to get out of the torpedo range when we detected the submarine but the ROE states we cannot fire unless fired upon so I had to purposely drive towards the submarine to get him to shoot at me then it would allow me to engage. In this particular scenario I was also hoping to get a kill with the submarine using a ship weapon because I know the sonar ranges are very bad and I am only detecting him from the helicopter so it is possible if I am careful I can close within weapons range and shoot. I was also doing this because I only had one helicopter and I wanted to save any of their torpedoes for additional submarines. But yes, ideally you want to keep space and use the helicopter to kill everything it is just in this scenario you are constrained by the ROE.
@@ryu1940 Oh boy I didn't have to wait for them to fire on me for long. I'm trying to be all clever and harassing the first one when a bunch of wave homing torps suddenly appear from somewhere else. Ivan's rules of engagement were clearly more flexible than mine.
Didn't drop a BT. Where's your sound speed profile? ATG would be disappointed.
they need to sim being the BT guard ship haha
@ryu1940 they should sim "open in sonar" where a game dev will come eat your snacks while you step away from your computer.
Can you do the Yom Kippur - 1973 mod, please?
Fun scenario, but it was a little too easy...
ASW against those particular threats is easy yeah.
Ctrl+drop buoy= drop pattern btw
ah yeah I don't like using their default pattern so I just manually figure stuff out for the situation