Do NOT wrap a French Drain Pipe With Drainage Fabric
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2018
- www.frenchdrainman.com
I want to talk a little bit about the pipe we use, the fabric we use, how we use it and why we use it in the way that we use it. So a lot of guys are just wrapping the pipe and then they'll put the pipe in and the whole their stone in. We don't do that. And I'll tell you why.
This subsoil right here, if you just pour stone, let's say we just wrapped a pipe right there, or you have a pipe with a sock on it and now you just fill this in with stone and you put the grass back over top. This subsoil mixes with the stone and the stone migrates into the subsoil. It plugs here. The system plugs here. So, to have a pipe with a sleeve or a sock on it, and I even see guys that'll take drainage fabric and wrap the pipe, it's a really bad idea. That's not the right way to build a good French drain system.
So, for a French drain system, never use the pipe with a sleeve sock on it. Don't wrap your pipe with a filter wrap because you're going to want to wrap. You need a soil separator so that your stone and subsoil don't mix and it and it'll plug here. What good is having a pipe that's not plugged if you can't get the water to it? So we wrap everything. This is a soil separator, will have the stone and pipe and we'll wrap it all. That's how we do it. That's a philosophy on how we build the drainage system and it works. It works really well over 30 years and there's not one that's failed.
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@frenchdrainman nice video,
I have to lay a land drain in black soil (Scotland) and there is no gravel available; as the least bad option will wrapping the pipe in membrane or using prewrapped pipe still work?
Any advice from your experience appreciated
100m, 100mm dia perf corrugated at 600mm depth
So rare to get both a rationale and some data along with the advice. This channel is head and shoulders above most others. Thanks
Great job! Work for a builder and saw this exact detail on a drawing. Wondered why the civil engineer drew it up this way and now it makes perfect sense. Thanks
Thank you for your videos! I'm in the middle of building a garage. My concrete pad backs up to an upward sloping hill. With, of all things, a wet-weather-spring fed pond at the highest point on my property at the ridge apex, behind my garage site. The pond often over-flows, and sheets down the hill. Releasing hundreds of gallons of rainwater an hour. I installed my french drain, in a 2'x2', soil barrier lined, trench. All along the back of the pad, and down one side. Then I tied it into my buried drain line, that runs down to the city storm sewer, while collecting all of my gutters from my house, and a catch basin under my rear deck. There is a bout a 35' drop in elevation from the garage pad, to strom sewer at the road, (I live on a small ridge.) Even with the recent several days of monstrously heavy rains in Tennessee, from hurricane Laura. My pad never had any run-off on get onto it. So when my building goes up, I am confident there will be no water intrusion. Since there is no grass behind the pad right now, due to recent dirt work around the build site. And my spring-fed pond overflowed every single day. I was more than impressed. I followed your simple rules for a successful french drain, and they work like a champ! Due to the elevation difference between the highest drain installed, and the city storm sewer. My drain line that enters the city storm sewer catch basin. Blowed like a 4" fire hose, at full-pressure. I poured some liquid soap in the gravel around the pad to see how long it takes the water to travel the 400 linear feet of drain line down the hill. We had a ginormous pile of bubbles down at the road in less than 2 minutes! The whole project cost me just under $2K, not including the existing buried drainage lines.However, it should keep my new garage dry forever. Thank you for sharing your trade, and expertise, with the world!
I had mine done (80’) a year ago. They used pea gravel and no wrap at all. It didn’t even make it through winter. Now I’m forced to redo myself. SO, I’m binge watching all your videos. Thanks!
Thank you for sharing
Use schedule 40 PVC its a little more expensive but worth it
Thanks for sharing your expertise on installing a French drain. I went to your website and it would let me have access. My husband and I are interested in getting some of your supplies.
Thanks for the info. Just about to lay my first French drain
Thank you so much for your explanations. Saying things like "soil separator" is important! I appreciate your helping me to do it right the first time!
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It makes sense! I have seen so many different videos about do’s and don’t and this one here definitely makes sense!
Thanks for sharing
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Excellent method! Will work for decades if not longer.
You brilliant bugger- done your way following the video- street cred for the smashed thumb
👍
Hi - just about to install one (in the UK) - thanks for answering about the need to place the pipe right at the foot of the trench. How would you suggest I deal with a stepped foundation? The retaining walls I'm building are on a gentle slope which runs along the same line as the wall, so the footing/foundation steps down 110mm every meter or so. The pipe I'm using isn't flexible enough to follow these sudden drops, so do I have to compromise and have some gravel under the pipe to smooth out the steps?
Love your videos short and right to the facts thanks
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i love you guys thanks so much chicago weather is pretty close i love the water has a place to go this system definitely moves water im on a slab and previous home owner buit a screen room it has a flipper style gutter that just hangs off and dumps water and with the snow melting and spring rain water goes under patio andunder slab into heat duct but i did what you recommended dug nice trench laid fabric and coverd with gravel NO MORE WATER COMING INTO HEATER DUCT.THE SOIL HAD SO MUCH WATER FROM WHAT I MENTIONED ABOVE THE SYSTEM YOU POSTED MOVES THE WATER THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH!!!
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Thanks I was about to get a pipe with a sock for the same wrong reason you explained! 🙃
Thanks for this info!
very useful idea! thank you!
Thanks for the helpful advice!
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Great tips thank you
Great video! I am in pennsylvania and I am going to go rip mine up out of the ground and start over.
Here was my mistake: I dug trench, filled withstone, sleeved 4" corrugated PVC pipe, ran into sump bucket. Water barely trickling to pump. the problem is all the videos I was watching was people down south I didn't think to watch a video from the north things are done differently up here I'm originally from Florida so I'm still learning but I like your videos and I'll definitely keep watching more!
I'm from up north but live in Jacksonville, Florida. Do you think I need to do it this way in florida? Or watch a video of someone down south installing it?
I am a firm believer in going ahead and putting rocks/boulders along the upper edge and leaving the system open rock, versus planting over the top, so your pipe is still concealed under rock, but there is no dirt on top to gradually plug up your system-a swale type design. It allows the sun to heat the rock and trench, thawing it faster in winter months to keep water moving, and allows for evaporation. When edged and covered with attractive river rock, it can really enhance the look of a landscape as well.
It only enhances the landscaping if a line of stone looks good there. All depends on where the drainage is needed.
I did exactly what you proscribe (on my own intuition) have to pull it all up and line with plastic, 1 foot away from stone house foundation, now leaking more into foundation rocks falling etc
This is great info - I have been wondering why most videos and books say put rock under the pipe, because with rock at the bottom it has always seemed to me that the water is mostly going to remain outside (below) the drain pipe - and so the drain I am working on currently, has the drain at the bottom, then covered in rock.
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Thank you this makes perfect sense
Each video I see says different things.. I have clay soil and I watched a video earlier today stating that the clay will clog the material and its best not to have any material. Its takes longer for stone to clog up than it does for the material.
i think this is a good point. I think it really makes a difference what soil it is. Not all soil behaves the same.
Yep. It's really confusing :(
I’m with ya, I have clay so I’m going with just a sock.
I have clay too. What did u end up doing?
@@potraf26 I dug a wide trench removing a good amount of clay. I lined the bottom with stone. Laid the pipe and connected to a drain.
I decided to just fill it with stone and pea gravel. I put a layer of fabric over the top and covered with dirt.
It's not perfect but it is a massive improvement. The garden will still pool in heavy rain, but instead of days to clear it takes a couple of hours. There is no pooling around the area of the drain.
What about using astm c33 concrete sand around the drain and no filter fabric? Have you have encountered that?
Ty...great video.
Best video from FDM!
Nice vid
Enjoy the vids. I’ve got standing water in yard after heavy rains. But how do I lay a new section of corrugated pipe and tie it in to an existing catch basin? Basin, altho small, appears to be a vertical concrete cylinder which drains “that” area, with just one outlet leading to street sewer. Replace the catch basin? With what? Thanks
You can cut the corrugated pipe anywhere you want and reroute with an attachment/extender/diverter, and an additional catch basin if you need to... so many ways.
Thanks for your videos! We got talked into buying limestone crushed rock but now I’m worried it will clog the drain. We have the non-woven fabric but now I’m thinking we also need the sleeve around the pipe so it doesn’t clog with crushed rock sediment. What do you think? The limestone is also pretty dirty 😞 I’ve been trying to wash it all before using it in the trench.
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Lmfao 😂😆😂😆 I have been seeing French drains installed for years and done a few myself as a plumber for side work and I actually have done it this way not my first time that was with a pipe with a sock over it but after I realized that they sold the barrier filter material in 100 ft rolls at my irrigation supply shop and I have been told by other irrigation people that I was doing it wrong but I continue to do it this way this makes me feel a lot better now I never understood the sock over the pipe and throw dirt in it when the soil is going to mix in with the rock and end up clogging the sock up anyway this way you have a large area of substrate or Rock that the water can flow into and then the tube can carry out mentally I always thought this was the best way because I had seen other people install it various other ways and none of them made sense
MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
The dirt / soil will always stop on the outside of the fabric but if you place the fabric against the sides of the trench the number of sq. Inches of drain able area will be 100s maybe 1000s times larger than the area you will have if you wrap the pipe.......if you think about it wrapping the pipe will eventually, when the soil hits the fabric and blocks water flow, leave you with water only flowing through the fabric and then directly into the slits only.......wrapping the trench will allow water to flow into all the voids between the rock then freely flowing into the pipe slits with no restriction......wrapped trench = no pipe infiltration flow restriction......wrapped pipe = sever pipe infiltration flow restriction
In general, how deep do you dig your trench?
Thank you for the video.
In my case, the water is accumulating only in a small pool that formed at the top of the slope. Do you think it would be better to use not perforated pipes?
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Hi, thank you for this video. One question:
Soil separator, right on top is the pipe, rock/gravel on top of that, all wrapped in soil separator, correct? Rock/gravel is only on top and sides of the pipe, not bottom and the soil separator will wrap around the whole thing. Is that correct?
Thank you in advance for response.
FDM Bible:
1) Dig your trench
2) Line the trench with fabric
3) Put the pipe in
4) Fill with stone (or more pipe) to about 2" from the top
5) Wrap the fabric around the stone so you have a "burrito".
6) Put sod back on top (helps to use a sod cutter prior to step 1 to set aside then put back), or fill with gravel.
Guidelines where I live say to put 8" of stone under the pipe. Are you saying no stone under the pipe? I am talking for a septic drain field.
@@DiGiTaLdAzEDM No idea about a septic drain field. You'll have to ask FDM.
So much confusion
Good advice!!! It needs a layer of stones wrapping inside the draining fabric!!!
👍
Excellent info. Thanks for sharing knowledge. I am working on replacing the pipe in my system over the wknd. I wish I lived in your area! I would ask you guys to repair mine. I live in another state. My plan is the use corrugated slotted pipe with gravel and fabric like you showed. I think in some areas I will have to transition to schedule 40 that has no slots. I have to drive over that particular area and I heard that 40 is strong enough to withstand it. I’m still 12 inches in the ground at this point. Any pointers on how deep should I install the schedule 40 and the corrugated to not crush it when I drive over that area? Thanks in advance. Any info would be helpful. Stay safe.
A pipe is always more protected when packed in stone. Dirt can be soft and sink causing bellies. I prefer to use 6 inch pipe in applications like you have described. It displaces so much area that even a little movement over time will not stop a 6 inch pipe from flowing water.
@@FRENCHDRAINMAN AWSOME!!!! Thank you for helping me. Looking forward to more of your videos!!!! 🏆
I’ve never seen yellow pipe! Is there any difference between black and yellow? And is there any cost difference?
Very informative thank you but I wish you would have shown the final job
A picture is worth a thousand words
Helpful video! I made my French drain like you described but water doesn't get into the drain pipe! Am I using the wrong kind of fabric? Is there a difference between fabrics that are for soil separation vs landscape fabric meant to keep weeds from growing through? Something is wrong, but I can't tell why water is just pooling on top of the French drain trench!
There are hundreds of fabrics. Weed barriers are just that and do not work for drainage problems.
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Interesting how your install process has evolved in just one year. One yellow pipe back filled with stone to your quadpack blue pipe back filled with (not as much) stone.
@Steve
We have many patent pending designs stay tuned.
If Automotive companies stopped once the car could take you from point A to point B look where that would have left us.
As self employed entrepreneurs and mostly self taught we are wired to stay at the top by reinventing ourselves, products, services.
Thank you for commenting!
That's smart.
How deep do you tippicly dig
Simple and common sense, if you've ever dug up someone else's mistake.
We do the same last 6 years. Basically you multiple the size of the geofabric by doing this so the surface of the material is bigger so the filter is larger.
🤔
Would this work in Florida ( Central location ) ?
Or any recommendations on How To
Install in Florida Ground ?
Thanks ,,, and Thanks to any who
offer help , advice .
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Do you have to use fabric if you're leaving the trench filled with rock/gravel and having the gravel match the level of yard with no dirt on top? So, basically a French drain uncovered of grass and dirt, so it's visible in the yard.
Yes, soil will still come in from the other three sides. You want to lay the fabric in the trench and then the pipe just as shown in this video, then fill it up to about two inches from the top of the trench with gravel, then wrap the fabric around that, and top off with more gravel. The top gravel is mainly decorative so what I see a lot of people do is use decorative stones for that, such as what these guys sell decorativeaggregates.com/
@@Synthmilk I'm not disagreeing with your method but trying to understand how doing it this way the wrap stops the soil blocking the stone and pipe, but sleeving the pipe can block up.
Why can water pass through the membrane when its up against the soil with stone inside, but it cant just wrapped around the pipe still with soil to the outside after it leaches between the stone?
I’m going to do an interior drain around the perimeter of my crawl space and run it to my sump pit, should it be done any different than this? Everyone else always seems to push putting rock in the bottom of the trench!
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Question: Since there are 8 perforations around the diameter of the pipe, water, at any time, can both enter and exit the pipe. So a layman would assume that, until the water has nowhere else to go, it won't efficiently head towards the fall. Wouldn't there be water remaining in the french drain at a level equal to the lowest perforation?
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Hi do you not find the same problem with the fabric clogging on the outside of the gravel and pipe? We've just put french drains in clay soil and wrapped in non woven geo2but it's only been 2 months and the clay has blocked the outside of the terram and the water isn't getting in quick enough, how do you stop the clay clogging the outside? I cannot find any info online on this happening and what people have done!
much more work needed here. you will need a double separator. u will have to dig ~1 m each side of the french drain, first separator to block out the clay using geo material or synthetic or plastic for building, then fill up with intermediate nonpermeable, soil or use gravel or coarse river sand, then closer to pipe, use the separator again, then gravel around pipe. it will eventually bet blocked up, but a double separator will reduce the clay seapage into the next layer, and reduce it even further into the french drain
It's hard to do drainage in the clay. Do not back fill the drainage with the clay, use sand. This drainage should take only underground water. If you need to take surface water lets say you grass on backyard gets flooded then between the drainage and grass needs to be laced penetrating material as sand or soil.
What about for a interior basement French drain system?
How would you stone and wrap it?
High Octane Royal Blue 8 slot with the wide open inlets. Minerals over time plug inlets and a pipe with bigger inlets isn't prone to plugging from minerals in the groundwater. It would take a lot longer to plug the inlets.
What kind of stone do you put over the pipe and what kind of black fabric do you use?
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Would this also apply to footer tile against foundation wall?
Yes
Question: What happens when you don't have 1"-1.5" river rock available? I have 3/4 crushed river rock available to purchase only.
Then run a Quad Pack
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Is there a link to the type of fabric you use. All I have found is landscape fabric
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I always put stone down first then fabric then pipe then stone again then I wrap together then stone on top then top soil then grass.
Does it work well for many years? Because he's saying the rocks outside the fabric locks up with the soil and slows/prevents drainage. Also depends on type of soil and average temperature, so there's no wrong answer.
droppin knowledge. thanks man
Where is a pipe line like this apparently used in a yard? I have a sub pump out flow directly next to my basement entry. So the water just recycles. Would a French Line be a good application for that problem?
Hello I see this a contractor will install a French drain system in the basement and just to have the water pumped out right outside the house. Don’t make sense cause that water draining back towards house foundation. Should be pumped further away from house foundation.
joseph puchel thanks for confirming!
@@lyndseymeagenwalker3057 use a solid pipe to carry the water away from house out so it doesn't have a chance to leech back into soil. Good to use solid pipe to carry gutter rain water away too, you can tie em in together
So no stone under the pipe?
I am getting ready to try and do a French drain. I want to make sure you said NOT to use Fabric Drainage Sock for Corrugated Pipe. 1) dig 2) lay Fabric 3) rock 4) overlap fabric 5) cover with dirt (of course be sure it is grade)
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What do y'all think about having a layer of plastic running along the bottom of the trench to prevent any water from seeping into the soil below the pipe?
Would also like to know
No plastic
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No plastic. If water seeps into the soil beneath the pipe, that's a good thing
I bought drainage already wrapped in cloth. Can I use it wrapped, while also wrapping the trench in separate fabric?
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Would I still wrap it if I’m draining falling water from my roof, would I want holes on the bottom of the fabric for rising water too?
th-cam.com/play/PLjFCqaZ4v1BUqichor2QH1X_p9bBPor8D.html&si=MkOKbFA__8Gobg0g
Pretty good advice here. You get more surface area with your filter cloth to work if you wrap the whole system. By wrapping the pipe itself, as soon as the soil mixes in your clear stone isn't clear anymore! That never made any sense to me.
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If you use the corregated pipe, instead of the pvc, do you still have to create your own slope for a flat property?
If there's no slope, the water will just sit in the ditch. Corrugated has nothing to do with water flow unless it gets clogged.
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You need slope for water to flow to its' intended destination. 1.5 degrees of slope minimum.
Can I run it through my gravel driveway and not crush it?
Can you use the fabric from lowes called Promat
@V
It Blows!! Completely garbage!!
@@FRENCHDRAINMAN so what brand of fabric do I use, can you buy any from a store that is good?
@@WILDCHILD6278
We manufacture our own just go to frenchdrainman.com and we will hook you up!
I had some holes in the yard filled and the guys filled over the gravel of my French drains. Is this going to be a problem?
If standing surface water drainage is a problem you may need to add a surface drain or blind inlet.
What do you do if you are going near a tree to stop the roots from getting into the drain?
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Can you wrap the pipe as well as the trench?
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doesn't the fabric clog in time and reduce it's permeability ?
Sure it does but it takes many years. And good contractors don't just wrap the pipe, they line the entire trench with fabric then replace ALL of the soil removed to make the trench, with gravel. It's a lot of gravel and raises the price of the job, but it works really well for a long long time.
Can you recommend a contractor in the St. Louis area. tks
You would have to call our office and ask them if we have a contractor purchasing materials in your area. The office number is 2485053065.
Can you tell me where to get this pipe and fabric you use
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Any major hardware supplier; Home Depot, Lowes,...etc...
What fabric do you use for soil separation?
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Commonly called "landscape fabric". Available from any building supply or garden centers.
How would you do a footer drain on your house?
18 inches deep 24 inches wide. I don't mess around with footer drains.
@@FRENCHDRAINMAN do you recommend both inside perimeter (crawlspace) and outside perimeter drains? Thanks!
Are you located in Edmonton Alberta?
Frenchdrainman.ca
What fabric do you recommend?
Non-woven Geotextile Fabric in 4 oz and 8 oz
frenchdrainman.com/filter-fabric/
Is lava rock a bad choice? I have a bunch of unnecessary lava rock, and if I could use it that’d be great.
Very Bad. It crumbles over time.
@@FRENCHDRAINMAN thanks for the response!
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FRENCH DRAIN MAN awesome vid! Should we use a soil separator in a leach field trench too? I thought I saw a leach field video without a separator but wanted to make sure that’s correct. Thanks !!
1:11 I hope this finds you doing well. I am confused by your statement here. I might be understanding it all wrong.
You say you need a soil separator so that the stone and subsoil don't mix, but then you point at the trench wall's soil and say "and it will plug here" and follow by saying "what good is having a pipe that is not plugged if you can't get the water to it". So I am confused since you say it will plug at the trench wall's fabric, but then say that you wrap everything. Basically it will still plug. So that is my confusion.
I wonder about this because I I have clay type soil, so this is now worrying me more.
I used 4oz fabric to wrap around a 4inch perforated pipe that is surrounded (bottom as well) in stone (gravel 3/4). Creating a burrito, like you show but with a little gravel at the bottom. Not freezing here in the mid south.
Above the french drain I had to lay some solid corrugated pipe coming from a downspout, but still all this covered with top soil not the clay I removed to dig the trench. I wonder if this will work out or I messed up.
The other way would have been not using any fabric and just stone, but it is done already. I'd appreciate your clarification and then thoughts if you can and have some time. Thanks. Nice content and work.
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When I build my next house I am calling you, you do work in Alabama? :)
How can water get through the gravel and out the drain pipe when the tiny pores of the fabric have been clogged? Won't this render your system non working?
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Doesn’t the soil separator get clogged with dirt?
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Isn't there a good chance that the fabric wrapped around everything will eventually block up with soil and then water won't be able to migrate into the clean stone / pipe?
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@@FRENCHDRAINMAN Good stuff - thanks!
So the Fabric its so water dont Freeze during winter??
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What kind of fabric is that sir ??
frenchdrainman.com/filter-fabric/
so, the real key is to make sure you have fabric between the soil and the stone/rock. Having a wrapped pipe is not a problem, as long as you still have a permeable barrier between your soil and your rocks
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I see the pre wrapped drain pipe in stores. Is there an application where you would use it ? Why is it pre wrapped when your philosophy here is different ? I'm a little confused as to this.
I found your other video on this...
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th-cam.com/video/0ryOYWqsjFY/w-d-xo.html
will this work in clay?
Yes everything we do is in clay.
The title of the video is incorrect, even when based on the contents of the video. It is not a bad idea to wrap a drain pipe with drainage fabric. It is a bad idea to not wrap the whole trench with drainage fabric. It is a bad idea to ONLY wrap a drain pipe without wrapping the whole trench.
Why not do both?, soil separator AND a sleeve/sock with the #57. Eventually dirt/mud works it's way through that fabric.
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I am so confused…. I live in the south where we have heavy clay. I did the burrito and it drains slowly, but pools up on the surface. Literally just installed it and the clay just saturated and turns into a thick slop. The drain is only about 25’, but 7 minutes to soak up the puddle = flood in a major storm. May just remove the soil and go with river rocks…
The video says we are in the north and the soil is very different.
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a simpler explanations is: You want as much surface area for your filter/fabric as possible, Therefor wrap around the gravel.
ARE THE SLOTS ON THE BOTTOM TOO? CAN'T TELL FROM PIPE
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Water does not move through this fabric all that fast. If it’s snug up against the pipe all the way around , you’ve essentially very limited your surface area of transmission.
So I agree with your reason, but I think this is another one
th-cam.com/play/PLjFCqaZ4v1BUmAXw5xwQ0zbQRPxnX0U7R.html&si=tLlcN0SljvUt5-l4
What about wrapping the pipe, and still wrapping it within the "burrito" wrap system? 😬
@Studd Muffin Yeah, but I think U Fone is saying what about wrapping the pipe *and also* wrapping around the gravel (the whole trench). A double wrap with gravel in between the two wraps.
Is this a metaphor for something?
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