@@adriansdigitalbasement I guess if I were you I would have lost the measly rests of faith in the old single swipe sockets. Even if the remaining ones are working now, leaving them in there is probably asking for trouble. This problem is going to raise it's ugly head again soon enough. Tho I realize that swapping such an amount of sockets is an extreme PITA Still: Congrats on the Fix!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Adrian, you did a great job continuing to diagnose the various problems. Don't be surprised or depressed if another issue shows up later. If I were you, I would re-socket the entire board at some point, checking all the traces for shorts near the pins. Enjoy your new-old computer!
That has to be THE most cursed motherboard i've ever seen documented and repaired. I have to give you mad props Adrian, I would have given up at the 20% point at best of what you went through, and would have trash-bagged the whole thing as a victory to Entropy, but you held the line. Tons of respect to you.
As frustrating as this had to be for Adrian, the fact that he shared the ups and downs just proves to me why I love this channel so much. Kudos ADB, kudos.
I suspect that this build was a clone kit (bare PCB, case, keyboard, PSU), or a pile of parts that someone mail ordered. This would explain the mixture of parts, sockets, and ROM images used. The original builder never got the system to work, and shelved it.
I was thinking this as well, and I was thinking how sad I would have been back in the day if I had convinced my parents to buy a kit and then it never worked. So frustrating
Wow, what a journey, great job isolating all the failures! What's especially difficult with these clones is how they were not of the same quality as Apple boards
Freeze spray is great for finding problems that only manifest when the system is hot or cold. Expansion from heat can make a marginal joint work perfectly, where a blast of targeted cold can help you locate the fault quickly.
One of the more common failures of the BBC B is the video ULA fails when it gets hot. You'll see graphics corruption, but a small blast of freeze spray on the video ULA "fixes" it, making it really easy to identify the problem.
I actually have a crate of the stuff that someone gave me. Funny though it wasn't really cool related - it was mainly a mystery LOL. Great seeing you at VCF!!
I have a blue colored "Unitron" clone motherboard with a matching blue unitron disk controller and they are both basket cases, I've prob had them working for about an hour total. This series has given me hope that one day I'll get them working 100%!
@@adriansdigitalbasement It's terrifying because the first time I tried replacing a transistor after desoldering, the pad and trace ended up floating on top of the solder blob... 😬 Also it can create red herrings, I spent weeks troubleshooting noisy video only to realize it was my reactivemicro PSU and not the board!
Adrian, congratulations. I am a fan from another continent, from Brazil. I am 54 and unfortunately did not live the era of many of the machines you present in your channel, my first interaction with this world was a TRS80 machine in 81 (I was 12 at that time). Anyway, what I wanna tell you is that I used to work as an electronic technician from 86 to 92 debugging PLC boards for Reliance. One of the worst problems we had was thermal failure and bad contact with sockets and we had a technique that might help you, we heat up the boards with a hair dryer and cool it down spot by spot with a CO2 spray. That helped a lot finding the thermal faulty IC or bad socket. It might be useful for you. Thanks for all the great content.
44:00 Even if I had the patience you’ve demonstrated over the last few videos, this is the point at which I would have cracked completely, calmly stood up and walked around the workshop to find a hammer to give this board the send-off it so richly deserves.
Back in the day, I've written several address in address memory tests to find those data to address line shorts. I worked in an early computer store that sold S100 kits, and there were plenty of not perfectly etched PCB's in those kits. I ended up removing lots of chips and sockets, and then fixing the board with an exacto knife. Those bad board problems eventually went away once the kit makers started using bed of nails testers on their boards before shipping them!
After this long problems in series, I could imagine why the computewr was "lef for dead". Amazing skills to solve the problems Adrian! I learned a lot with these series.
I can understand why you chose this route, for the experience. However, if I had a bunch of blank motherboards for this computer, like you have, instead of wasting hours diagnosing each quirk, I would have grabbed one of the blank boards and transplanted all of the passive components, installed modern reliable sockets, soldered the transistors and crystal and then check to see if it works. Chip problems are easier to diagnose if the PC board isn't hosed. You could also have transplanted chips into a real Apple II and spotted a bad chip. However, this monster was Murphy's Law in every sense of the phrase. I am amazed you stuck with it.
Congrats on getting this to the finish line! What a ride it was! Watching you debugging these issues was really fun and we all rejoiced at the end. As a side note, I love how fast these computers from the 80s booted up: flip the switch, one second later there's the Basic prompt! It's 2023 now and all my devices (smartphone, computer, tablet) take 20-30 seconds before they give me control after a restart... 😞
Nothing would be saved or rescued without the commitment and dedication to fix things, no matter how crazy the path to success turns out to be. The fact that it happened to be a off market clone? So much the better.
This series has been a little master piece IMO. From pacing to all the work you've done and shown (I really wouldn't have wanted to edit this one down). These videos just show how good you've become with retro stuff and with repairs in general.
Through the years I've seen quite some repair videos, but these series were the best. The easy way would be replace almost everything on the bord, but this way it is so much more informative. Well done!
Trimmer caps do not have an end stop like pots do, so you will continuously vary between the minimum and maximum values of the capacitor. They do not handle solvents well either.
As an older man with kids and work and pensions and all that stuff to deal with, there is such satisfaction from fixing something virtually practically useless and crossing items off the broken list.
Adrian, I can barely imagine how much work it is to capture everything in real time and then editing it, but it is always a joy to see the process and your genuine reactions! Also congrats on the repair!!
Adrian, I did view the entire series. I must say, you are the man. Any other technician would have given up long ago. Your technical skills are above world-class. That's why I am subscribed to this channel. Very entertaining. Thanks for posting. We want more.
This video is one of the reasons why I’m a small Patreon of yours. Loved this series and all your other videos. What an amazing repair. This also shows why after all these years we all love Steve Wozniak.
I just can't see how this computer ever worked. Impressive debug skills. I think I might pull my apple //e out of the garage to see if I can get it to work.Havent tried in 20 years or longer.
Hello Adrian, really, really, really a really good job with an incredible amount of helpful tips and approaches for troubleshooting such disasters on Apple II+ boards (and clones). It has been incredibly fun to watch and share in your work, successes and failures. It gives me a lot of courage to continue working on my clone and also to eliminate its errors with time and the angelic patience you show. Thank you very much for all the work you have shared with us. Each part was over an hour long and as entertaining as a good thriller 🙂
Admirable in one word. Your patience and your educational skill.
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These Taiwanese clone boards were sold unpopulated often, pushing the ROM copyright problem to the person populating and assembling it. You keep talking about the factory, but the machine may well be home built. It might never have really run, ever, before you laid you magic hands on it. Great job!
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Seems that the board has been wave soldered, though. So factory it is, and a bad one :)
It's been so sad seeing your joy from the beginning go to your frustration in the final video. That said, you have a master's touch and the determination to follow this through. Well done and thank you so much for the content.
I think my method for fixing this board would have been much simpler. I would have used fire, lots of fire! Adrian, you have far more patience than me! Excellent job! :)
Most excellent work. Supreme galactic overlord level vintage repair. I'm most impressed by the RBG conversion. Tapping into the output of a few pins was enough to get a real video signal. Amazing.
I worked on boards back at the time this was made. I remember the particular type of 14 - 16 pin chip sockets I'm seeing in this video were often the issue with intermittency. Later sockets had better connectivity by having more contact area.
I know you must have suffered through this. But, VICTORY! I have to say, I learned a ton from this video. And just to add to the knowledge banks, I have worked on hardware that had the opposite problem, only working BEFORE warming up; I had to cool it down just to see it work at all. Amazing how things contract and expand dependent upon temperature, is it not? (We were only allowed to do board-level replacements there, but step one is "recreate/verify the reported issue," of course.) Love LOVE me some genuine, down to the chips repair! I apologize for all that you went through once again, but you freaking win an Internet on this one. Sincerest congratulations!
Best video series ever. Thanks for keeping going. Next time you say how reliable Apple IIs are you will know that some of the clones were not. Apple II Europlus was the first machine I used (1980). It was pretty reliable but failed sometimes and we had to open it and reseat the chips to fix it!
This has been the best troubleshooting series! Thanks for documenting all this.. I dont know what it is with those 74ls151 chips but that is a typical one to die on a PacMan board as well and cause strange things. Your way of finding the short between 2 traces that go to a bunch of chips was amazing. I had heard of doing that but have never seen it in practice. That is a fantastic technique.
I just watched this full series and it was really informative and entertaining, got to learn a lot while watching too! I am actually a mechanical engineer but am looking at a career change and electronics repair is something I am very interested about, watching your videos has only made that stronger, it's a career option I might look into.
Your channel is one of the reasons that I started teaching myself to solder and tinker with electronics. I really appreciate your videos. Keep them coming!
The low quality of the board and the components selected definitely made this repair so difficult. It's been a super interesting video series but it really helps you appreciate just how reliable first party apple IIs are.
Absolutely outstanding repair series, Adrian. I was glued to my screen the entire time. I laughed, I cried, I shared the rollercoaster journey of this repair with you and I cannot thank you enough.
I really like the soft blue and light orange colors output by this computer! I programmed the Apple II professionally (so to speak, working for a large company) in the early 1980s, but never saw it with a color monitor.
41:45 ...err, it looks like the 'S' key is on upside down.. The word 'save' is on the wrong side, the letter 'S' is incorrectly larger at the top than the bottom, and the key itself looks out of alignment compared to its neighbours....
I loved this series. It was great to see it fully operational in the end. What a series of issues! I think I will have nightmares about shorted traces under chips.
What a great series. You gotta hang onto that clone as a reminder of what you went through.
Yeah blood sweat and tears!! 100% this one is staying in the permanent collection
After all, I did hope to be added to a collection
@@adriansdigitalbasement I guess if I were you I would have lost the measly rests of faith in the old single swipe sockets. Even if the remaining ones are working now, leaving them in there is probably asking for trouble. This problem is going to raise it's ugly head again soon enough.
Tho I realize that swapping such an amount of sockets is an extreme PITA
Still: Congrats on the Fix!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Adrian, you did a great job continuing to diagnose the various problems. Don't be surprised or depressed if another issue shows up later. If I were you, I would re-socket the entire board at some point, checking all the traces for shorts near the pins. Enjoy your new-old computer!
@@adriansdigitalbasement...and hysterical laughing 😁
That has to be THE most cursed motherboard i've ever seen documented and repaired. I have to give you mad props Adrian, I would have given up at the 20% point at best of what you went through, and would have trash-bagged the whole thing as a victory to Entropy, but you held the line. Tons of respect to you.
Adrian: It freakin works!
Me: Hmm, there are 20 minutes left in the video 🤔😆
Hahahahahaha. A giveaway that something is still very wrong
As frustrating as this had to be for Adrian, the fact that he shared the ups and downs just proves to me why I love this channel so much. Kudos ADB, kudos.
this is like a horrible boss battle where you think you have won, and a new level opens up and the boss comes back
Shout out to Mr. Krak-Man! He’s the real hero. 😂
Agreed! My GF got really excited when she read that. Don't know why though...
I suspect that this build was a clone kit (bare PCB, case, keyboard, PSU), or a pile of parts that someone mail ordered. This would explain the mixture of parts, sockets, and ROM images used. The original builder never got the system to work, and shelved it.
I was thinking this all along in the first video. I suspect this computer NEVER ran until Adrian got to it.
I was thinking this as well, and I was thinking how sad I would have been back in the day if I had convinced my parents to buy a kit and then it never worked. So frustrating
You’re a patient man, Adrian Black.
Wow, what a journey, great job isolating all the failures! What's especially difficult with these clones is how they were not of the same quality as Apple boards
Yeah definitely not nearly as good. That does kind of make it all fun though!
Freeze spray is great for finding problems that only manifest when the system is hot or cold. Expansion from heat can make a marginal joint work perfectly, where a blast of targeted cold can help you locate the fault quickly.
One of the more common failures of the BBC B is the video ULA fails when it gets hot. You'll see graphics corruption, but a small blast of freeze spray on the video ULA "fixes" it, making it really easy to identify the problem.
I actually have a crate of the stuff that someone gave me. Funny though it wasn't really cool related - it was mainly a mystery LOL. Great seeing you at VCF!!
I have a blue colored "Unitron" clone motherboard with a matching blue unitron disk controller and they are both basket cases, I've prob had them working for about an hour total. This series has given me hope that one day I'll get them working 100%!
I think the unitron motherboard is the same as this other than the color. Yeah it seemed QA was not high on the priority list of these companies LOL
@@adriansdigitalbasement It's terrifying because the first time I tried replacing a transistor after desoldering, the pad and trace ended up floating on top of the solder blob... 😬 Also it can create red herrings, I spent weeks troubleshooting noisy video only to realize it was my reactivemicro PSU and not the board!
Adrian, congratulations. I am a fan from another continent, from Brazil. I am 54 and unfortunately did not live the era of many of the machines you present in your channel, my first interaction with this world was a TRS80 machine in 81 (I was 12 at that time). Anyway, what I wanna tell you is that I used to work as an electronic technician from 86 to 92 debugging PLC boards for Reliance. One of the worst problems we had was thermal failure and bad contact with sockets and we had a technique that might help you, we heat up the boards with a hair dryer and cool it down spot by spot with a CO2 spray. That helped a lot finding the thermal faulty IC or bad socket. It might be useful for you. Thanks for all the great content.
44:00 Even if I had the patience you’ve demonstrated over the last few videos, this is the point at which I would have cracked completely, calmly stood up and walked around the workshop to find a hammer to give this board the send-off it so richly deserves.
It's been a long one, but this repair process has been one of my favourites!
"I think it's working..."
Back in the day, I've written several address in address memory tests to find those data to address line shorts. I worked in an early computer store that sold S100 kits, and there were plenty of not perfectly etched PCB's in those kits. I ended up removing lots of chips and sockets, and then fixing the board with an exacto knife. Those bad board problems eventually went away once the kit makers started using bed of nails testers on their boards before shipping them!
I love it when you get to the stage of saying "it freakin works"
I can't help thinking Adrian pretty much declared WAR with that motherboard! 🤣
After this long problems in series, I could imagine why the computewr was "lef for dead". Amazing skills to solve the problems Adrian! I learned a lot with these series.
42:33 the S key seems to be upside down, can see it say ‘save’ on top side.
You need some freezer spray! Helps shock/move chips (through CTE) without touching/flexing the board.
I can understand why you chose this route, for the experience. However, if I had a bunch of blank motherboards for this computer, like you have, instead of wasting hours diagnosing each quirk, I would have grabbed one of the blank boards and transplanted all of the passive components, installed modern reliable sockets, soldered the transistors and crystal and then check to see if it works. Chip problems are easier to diagnose if the PC board isn't hosed. You could also have transplanted chips into a real Apple II and spotted a bad chip. However, this monster was Murphy's Law in every sense of the phrase.
I am amazed you stuck with it.
I love the endless hours of computer repair by ACBlack
Congrats on getting this to the finish line! What a ride it was! Watching you debugging these issues was really fun and we all rejoiced at the end.
As a side note, I love how fast these computers from the 80s booted up: flip the switch, one second later there's the Basic prompt! It's 2023 now and all my devices (smartphone, computer, tablet) take 20-30 seconds before they give me control after a restart... 😞
Nothing would be saved or rescued without the commitment and dedication to fix things, no matter how crazy the path to success turns out to be. The fact that it happened to be a off market clone? So much the better.
This series has been a little master piece IMO. From pacing to all the work you've done and shown (I really wouldn't have wanted to edit this one down). These videos just show how good you've become with retro stuff and with repairs in general.
Through the years I've seen quite some repair videos, but these series were the best. The easy way would be replace almost everything on the bord, but this way it is so much more informative. Well done!
Trimmer caps do not have an end stop like pots do, so you will continuously vary between the minimum and maximum values of the capacitor. They do not handle solvents well either.
As an older man with kids and work and pensions and all that stuff to deal with, there is such satisfaction from fixing something virtually practically useless and crossing items off the broken list.
Adrian, I can barely imagine how much work it is to capture everything in real time and then editing it, but it is always a joy to see the process and your genuine reactions! Also congrats on the repair!!
Adrian, I did view the entire series. I must say, you are the man. Any other technician would have given up long ago. Your technical skills are above world-class. That's why I am subscribed to this channel. Very entertaining. Thanks for posting. We want more.
This video is one of the reasons why I’m a small Patreon of yours. Loved this series and all your other videos. What an amazing repair. This also shows why after all these years we all love Steve Wozniak.
The fun thing is that after the repairs this board is probably in a better state than it's ever been in before
I just can't see how this computer ever worked. Impressive debug skills. I think I might pull my apple //e out of the garage to see if I can get it to work.Havent tried in 20 years or longer.
You need to put out a T-Shirt with Your Picture , and the phrase "IT FREAKIN' WORKS !!" ....I would TOTALLY buy one !
If there were a "nobel" prize for motherboard disgnostics and repair you sir should win twice for this one.
Wow, what a journey. This has been my favorite series of videos this year. Fantastic work!
Hello Adrian,
really, really, really a really good job with an incredible amount of helpful tips and approaches for troubleshooting such disasters on Apple II+ boards (and clones).
It has been incredibly fun to watch and share in your work, successes and failures.
It gives me a lot of courage to continue working on my clone and also to eliminate its errors with time and the angelic patience you show.
Thank you very much for all the work you have shared with us.
Each part was over an hour long and as entertaining as a good thriller 🙂
You have the patience of a saint. I would have totally taken the chips off and thrown that in the trash.
Admirable in one word. Your patience and your educational skill.
These Taiwanese clone boards were sold unpopulated often, pushing the ROM copyright problem to the person populating and assembling it. You keep talking about the factory, but the machine may well be home built. It might never have really run, ever, before you laid you magic hands on it. Great job!
Seems that the board has been wave soldered, though. So factory it is, and a bad one :)
if you run out of 4116s use a 4164 but lift pin 1 and connect to pin 16, lift pin 8 and connect to pin 9 , you can then drop them in place
I have a 90 minute flight home from VCFMW, this video will be perfect for the flight 😊
My first ever computer apple iie. First ever apple game. Sammy Lightfoot. These three videos should be part of highschool curriculum.
You have the patience of a saint.
It's been so sad seeing your joy from the beginning go to your frustration in the final video.
That said, you have a master's touch and the determination to follow this through. Well done and thank you so much for the content.
I think my method for fixing this board would have been much simpler. I would have used fire, lots of fire! Adrian, you have far more patience than me! Excellent job! :)
This was a great series of a nearly endless story. You did a fantastic Job and never lost your humour, kudoz!
I respect your intelligence and wisdom, but I love that laugh... you make troubleshooting almost fun...
This one deserved to end with the PC playing an 8 bit version of "we are the champions" :)
Congratulations on a very well earned fix
Most excellent work. Supreme galactic overlord level vintage repair. I'm most impressed by the RBG conversion. Tapping into the output of a few pins was enough to get a real video signal. Amazing.
wow! What a ride! Appreciate all the lessons. There were times I thought it was a goner! Glad you persisted. Thanks again.
I take my hat off to your patience and tenacity sir!
I've been dealing with a similarly frustrating computer myself. This video gave me the motivation to keep working on it and make things worse
Thanks for making this ROM available! I have a II+ and several IIe's. Looking forward to trying it for those really weird issues.
I worked on boards back at the time this was made. I remember the particular type of 14 - 16 pin chip sockets I'm seeing in this video were often the issue with intermittency. Later sockets had better connectivity by having more contact area.
Tak!
You're welcome, and thank you for the support!
Its nice to be a pateron very excited to find out how it is fixed
I know you must have suffered through this. But, VICTORY! I have to say, I learned a ton from this video. And just to add to the knowledge banks, I have worked on hardware that had the opposite problem, only working BEFORE warming up; I had to cool it down just to see it work at all. Amazing how things contract and expand dependent upon temperature, is it not? (We were only allowed to do board-level replacements there, but step one is "recreate/verify the reported issue," of course.) Love LOVE me some genuine, down to the chips repair!
I apologize for all that you went through once again, but you freaking win an Internet on this one. Sincerest congratulations!
I’m amazed that the mish-mash of ROMs all work together.
Excellent perseverance! Trouble Shooter Black Belt achieved!
Best video series ever. Thanks for keeping going. Next time you say how reliable Apple IIs are you will know that some of the clones were not. Apple II Europlus was the first machine I used (1980). It was pretty reliable but failed sometimes and we had to open it and reseat the chips to fix it!
Great series about Apple clone recovery. Thank you!
I still blows my mind that you had a pile of bare PCBs for this exact system. LOL!
Awesome work Adrian. You plowed through that mess and didn't stop.
Lol, that thumbnail. Fantastic job Adrian. Enjoyed the whole series.
liked the series. Shows that persistence pays off. Congrats.
Hats off to you, Adrian! Amazing job getting this thing working (for now) ;-)
My favourite series tbh, it's so nice to see the trouble shooting even if it is amazingly annoying. :)
Sheer grit and determination on this one.
Big up, mate.
This has been the best troubleshooting series! Thanks for documenting all this.. I dont know what it is with those 74ls151 chips but that is a typical one to die on a PacMan board as well and cause strange things. Your way of finding the short between 2 traces that go to a bunch of chips was amazing. I had heard of doing that but have never seen it in practice. That is a fantastic technique.
I was so excited about these videos that couldn't help but wait for the sequels. Congrats! Amazing!
Great stuff! I can not imagine it ever worked before.
Man, after watching this series, I just want to give you a hug! I can't believe how much you went through!
Great series. I don't think that machine ever ran. Those shorts seem like manufacturing issues.
Your patience is outstanding, thank you for creating this video series. I really enjoyed watching your troubleshooting.
WHEW !!!😅 GOOD JOB ADRIAN. CHEERS
I just watched this full series and it was really informative and entertaining, got to learn a lot while watching too!
I am actually a mechanical engineer but am looking at a career change and electronics repair is something I am very interested about, watching your videos has only made that stronger, it's a career option I might look into.
Wow, you are so patient... I envy you. Good job, and thank you for this interesting repair! 😅
Amazing effort. You will have to revisit this machine every few years and we can see if its still alive!
That was quite the saga!
That is what I call a Labour of Love.
Wow. You turned it into the computer it always should have been! I get excited upping a PC to a SSD and more RAM, this is way beyond that.
Thanks for showing us the value of persistence in repair Adrian.
Great job Adrian. Thankx for sharing with us. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
It may be a pain to fix. But learning methods to do what you do is absolute pleasure.
I really enjoyed this series of videos, Adrian. Very in depth and informative. Thanks!
Your channel is one of the reasons that I started teaching myself to solder and tinker with electronics. I really appreciate your videos. Keep them coming!
goodness gracious what a wild ride!!!
really thrilling series! Congratulations to happy Adrian🎉
The low quality of the board and the components selected definitely made this repair so difficult. It's been a super interesting video series but it really helps you appreciate just how reliable first party apple IIs are.
Great job, I have an idea this machine works better now than when it was new 😂
This is the best repair series I have seen in a while all of your stuff is amazing but this takes the king cake congratulations!!!
Never seen anything like this. You are a debugging hero! Just never give up.
Absolutely outstanding repair series, Adrian. I was glued to my screen the entire time. I laughed, I cried, I shared the rollercoaster journey of this repair with you and I cannot thank you enough.
I really like the soft blue and light orange colors output by this computer! I programmed the Apple II professionally (so to speak, working for a large company) in the early 1980s, but never saw it with a color monitor.
Wow, what a ride!
Thank you for fixing this machine, the test cartridge and your entertainment!
🖖🏻
Adrain, I congratulate you for your patience and perseverance. I would probably have tossed this board away, I simply would not have your endurance.
Well done, and thats why I enjoy fixing stuff, and I learnt something on the way. Thanks john
41:45 ...err, it looks like the 'S' key is on upside down.. The word 'save' is on the wrong side, the letter 'S' is incorrectly larger at the top than the bottom, and the key itself looks out of alignment compared to its neighbours....
I loved this series. It was great to see it fully operational in the end. What a series of issues!
I think I will have nightmares about shorted traces under chips.