The 40th P3ESR's aren't for everyone, but the people who DO get them will likely fall in love. Meanwhile, I really do need to get a microphone. One of these days...
Hello again Sir thank you for this video and it's been a month since your last video and I'm excited, just want to ask what did you use to play and power (player, pre-amps, amps etc.) the p3s? and what's the measurement between the two speakers how far they apart and how close are you (near field listening) to the speakers? Thank you in advance.
@@raisinyao Thanks for the reminder! I knew I was forgetting to mention something in the description. That information will be posted soon! As for measurements. In general, I'm only 2ft from the front baffle when listening on my desktop rig. I'm about 6ft away in the main 2-channel system. Distance between the speakers can vary between 4 to 6 feet, depending on the equipment and how I want to load the room.
another awesome review. Clear, tangible, very concise and en-point! you are the best when it comes to short presentation, clear visual, and all the important decision criteria are well articulated. Thanks Sean!
seriously, all the impt criteria that are necessary for me to make a decision are available, you are the best when it comes to crisp and palpable presentation of a product. I'm looking fwd to your articulation on the Elac B6.2, with the tubes that you hook up with, it sounded palpably bright with certain songs.
I loved the P3ESR's when I heard them. Very easy speaker to listen to and fall in love with. Best handling of the vocal range I've ever experienced - and that's compared to many studio monitors. I can only imagine how good these are. Enjoy your new babies!
Hats off to you as you really did them justice. Your review was spot on, superb explanation especially for people that don't know these historically important speakers.
Dude so happy to have you back with another great review. I watched Ron's review of the Elac and by the looks of it your both rubbing of each other's good qualities, Kudos to the both of you. I haven't pulled the trigger on my next speaker investment. But I am definitely leaning strongly towards the Buchardts. You might think me a bit spoiled as this system will be my 5th in my townhouse. The closest I've come to owning a bookshelf speaker system is my Focal XS 2.1 that I bought to use with my iMac back ironically enough as your first Harths in 2011. In fact that's how I just watched your review. I know due to copyright crap you can't play more music like stuff I like to listen to from AC/DC & Allman Bros. to Zeppelin and everything in between including progressive Jazz and a little classical every now and then. So you and everyone have been saying lots of good things about the Buchardt S300 & S400 based on everything I've told you which of the two would be best to get for my living room mostly vinyl listening ? I like my Focals a lot they've served me well since 2011 and love my Definitive Tech flagship towers in wall surrounds in my man cave surround set up also as for cans I use AKG 701 There I've given you everything short of having you come to my house and see what I'm going for in this system. Your opinion and recommendation will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance and keep on doing what you do better and better each time I get to see and hear your channel. Peace out kid lol.
I appreciate the kind words. So here's the thing: From what I can tell, you tend to like a sound that has some sparkle to it. Focals. Def Techs. AKGs. These are anything but smooth and rolled off. Given that, I think the S400's may be more to your liking. While I genuinely think you could find happiness with either the 40th P3 or the S400's, it sounds to me like your preference is well defined. Hope this helps!
Nice review Zero. The 40s are definitely pretty, but I'm still digging my P3s on the desktop driven by the Heed Elixir you recommended. Simple combo, great synergy and very easy to love. Peace.
Sean you are definitely my favorite reviewer by far. Although I have to say I disagree with you on the sound characteristics of the AKG 702 not 701 my mistake they are very neutral not sparkly at least to my ears. The Def Techs are more on the bottom heavy with the built-in powered subs and radiators. Now the Focal XS 2.1 I'll agree they are a bit on as you said sparkly side as I think their whole line are. The MB Silver 500 are also more the bright side, but not the GE Tritons with the ribbon tweeters. If you remember those were the two I was deciding on when I contacted you. I've decided against both and am going to go with the Buchardt only I don't know if I should go with the S300 or the S400 You'll laugh when you hear what I'm playing my Pro-ject TT through. My Mackie PA mixer & SRM450 speakers. I DJ at my Jets tailgate. Let me know which Buchardt you think I should go with. Thanks bro, you are the man truly enjoyed your last review seemed a lot more polished, but still honest and not boring. Please get back to me ASAP so maybe I'll have new toys before the new year. Thanks in advance kid.
Thanks - an excellent review, honest and truly informative as always. Liking the outdoor shots too, they add that little extra.They do sound like my sort of speaker, but as you say a bit pricey. Maybe I'll have to build a kit version of the LS 5A, I think there's one available here in the UK.
Hey Norman. I think a kit would be fun. Falcon used to have a VERY competitively priced kit until they shifted their business model to the classic distributor/dealer network. Unless you're into DIY, I'd suggest going for a pair of used P3's. That'll get you 80% of the way to the 40th Anni's.
Great review - thanks! Seriously considering getting these to pair with my Rogue Cronus Magnum III and Rega P6. My listening set up is in a pretty small space so these would seem to fit the bill, and I listen to mostly jazz and classical, rarely blasting anything. Any thoughts on the need for stands or distance from walls?
Who says Harbeth P3 series is overpriced? It is very important for younger people to enjoy music at their desktop in modern lifestyles. The Hifi-man HE1000 headphone sells for $3000, just like the newest P3. I love my HE560 headphone and my P3ESR (M20.1) for desktop listening. Are not world-class speakers a better investment than world-class headphones? The resale value is incredible for Harbeth, anywhere in the world. I would not bother with those $30K and $100K speakers because 98% do not sound tonally better than Harbeth P3 series. Huge and expensive speakers can do some hi-fi spectaculars, if that's what you want. At the end of the day, it is tonal beauty, relaxed presentation, and slightly warm neutrality that keep us listening to music for relaxation and enjoyment, just like our reviewer said. A good hi-fi system invites you to listen to more music for those deep emotional connections. Over-the-top hifi systems invite you to listen to the same audiophile super-recordings over and over again. There is little joy to be gained from the latter experience.
I owned the original Rogers LS3/5a back in the day. I have fond memories of them but to really make them sing I used to drive them with some very high end and very powerful gear. Gear that I could no longer afford or would want sitting in my living room. Which is the main reason I'm not that interested in the P3ESR. Good mid range is nice but at times I also enjoy a driving beat with some visceral (primal) attributes. I'm quite confident the S400s will be a good compromise unless they sound like Dali, B&W, etc. We shall soon find out. If not I'll be looking hard and fast at Proac or Totem for my holiday gift to self.
I cannot comment on the Rogers. What I can say however, is that you don't need to pair either of the P3's up to high dollar equipment in order to enjoy great sound out of them. Of course, like any proper high end loudspeaker, they stand to benefit from superior electronics, but they certainly don't *demand* this pairing like some products do. Still, from everything you've told me, it sounds like the S400's fall right in line with what you're looking for.
Nice review as always. What a lot of people don't understand is the crossovers can make or break the speakers sound. Harbeth puts in a lot of R&D . To bad there are not any high end stores around anymore to addition these speakers because at nearly 3k you want to be sure.
I live in a small detached cottage, I am lucky if I can go above 30 watts without annoying the neighbours I want to hear detail at low power levels so these speakers are perfect for me I will have to see if I can find some ex-display or second-hand items.
There is alot of competition in the bookshelf speaker world. Hard to pay $3000 for a pair of 6 inch 2 way speakers with low sensitivity. Just saying...
Hi, Sean. Very, very nice video (and topic, 'cause the LS3/5A are an audio topic in themselves). I'm now 60, and I haven't the opportunity to listen to ANY version of these all-famous speakers yet. In general, LOVE british speakers (my main ones are the Mission 767, all said). But..., $2,300 for these? Keep in mind that the Mission costed me in 1990 about the same, and they are (excuse me the metric system) 1,60 meters tall, weighs 80 kg each, have a perfect vertical D'Apolito array of five drivers each and came with an external active low pass adjustable filter + low freq amplifier (Low Freq Alignment Unit, LFAU), and I upgraded this one later with the PSX, an additional power supply wich costed me (in nowadays terms) some $120. If you make the addition, my speakers system costed me some $3,000 (nowadays, too. I conjecture that Mission took them off of the market quite fast most probably because they were loosing a lot of money with them). My question (and perplexity) is: How is it possible such a small difference in price with such a big difference in physical characteristics (the Missions are constructed with sturdy materials, too)? I hope to listen someday these so relevant speakers, or die in the attempt!
Glad you're digging on those Missions! So the answer to your question is multi-faced. Prices are often governed by the companies business model, access to materials, current economic conditions in their locale, and of course, how the product is made. To better explain the price of the P3, I'm going to copy and paste what I just wrote to somebody else. I admit this is to save myself a bit of time. Cheers! Short answer is: Because these aren't made on an automated assembly line like so many other loudspeakers. The radial drivers are made by Harbeth (and not by somebody else for Harbeth). The veneers are expensive. You're also paying for the time that it takes for Harbeth to assemble each speaker, which includes a double-check quality control process for each and every part. The company also needs to compensate its staff with fair UK wages. Then lastly, there needs to be enough margin built into each product to not only procure enough parts for support and to cover basic operating expenses, but to also make sure that their distributors and dealers can earn enough to justify representing/selling the line. There's quite a bit that goes into bringing products like this to market!
Like your show or program. i always had to tip my hat to Harbeth , i figured that so expensive , man they must be good. I was shocked to see on you tube , a recent purchaser was complaining about glue smudges , and stains , finger prints etc, the small Harbeth like your reviewing , and i said to myself , dude just take them back. Anyway he dealt with the distributor , ended up sending new drivers and they fell apart. So i'm stunned , do we avoid buying Harbeth made on a Monday or Friday On top of all that , i ran across a you tube from GR Research specifically on the model you are reviewing. people send him speakers with the expectation he can tweek them or improve them well , he declared the little Harbeth was pretty smooth , and then he checked the inside, WoW there was so much components there, in addition to "steel" binding posts, which is a no no , a host of really cheesy components, cheapest he has seen to date, he was perplexed considering how expensive these speakers are. He declared the speaker was not fit to upgrade , and to start over looking for a new speaker. With that in mind i always had a inkling that these were really over priced, plus the thin wall design started back in the war WW2 when wood was scarce, That is no longer an issue . i think i'll put my money into Kef ref 1 or B&W 805 D4
Love the p3esr, I used to listen the old Rogers ls 3/5a. I love that speakers, but when I compared it to this p3esr, i shocked. The p3esr delivered a soul to the sound and very very easy to listen and love. Thanks for the great review. May I ask , what amp did you used to combine with this p3esr?
Hi Sean. Good to see you're still alive and making great reviews. :) I had a pair of Rogers LS3/5a's with 2 Cizek subwoofers "back in the day". I wish I still had that setup, because the subs made a very good speaker into a great speaker. Voices were unbelievably realistic. Anyone who heard it was stunned by how life-like it sounded. Right now I have KEF LS50's with 2 subs and it doesn't approach the sound of the LS3/5a's. Btw, I love all genres of music except opera and rap. How did you get into opera? Do you speak Italian or German? Maybe if I understood the words I would appreciate it more.
You need to get back into the LS3/5a game, Ed! About opera; I actually enjoy not knowing the words. :D Still, I wouldn't say I'm into opera. It's simply a genre of music that I respect and enjoy from time to time. To answer your question; I suppose my initial exposure began when I stumbled across a YT video of Anna Netrebko. Good stuff. :)
nice review, as a P3 owner I can only agree on your thoughts, this are speakers the put a smile on your face. What kind of desk stand you have them in the video behind you?
Thanks Davides. I admit I don't know what 'desk stand' you're talking about. Are you talking about the wooden one at around 15:30? If so, that's something I made. For normal desktop use, a good stand would be something from IsoAcoustics.
Interesting and just wondering if they could be compared to a set of Lintons - I am a jazz and rock fan.. so I guess the P3s wont work for me -- driven by a Sugden A21.. Class A
Sean - I have watched your zero fidelity reviews of both but wondered if you would you recommend the 40th anniversary Harbeth P3 ESRs over the latest Morel 6s if they were equal in price?
The 40th P3's edge out the S400's when it comes to the naturalness of the human voice, low-level resolution, and instrumental timbre (in some ways). The P3's also, in my opinion, have a distinct edge when it comes to raw build quality. The S400's however, get the nod in every other major category. Ultimately, it'll boil down to the kinda listening experience you want to have.
Hey Phil - Enough people are asking about how the S400's compare to the Harbeths and Totems that I may have to make a video about it. If I can secure a pair of S400's again, I'll be sure to make this happen.
The P3ESR's fall into the same category as persian rugs, old school handmade watches, Japanese knives, European designer clothes, etc... A Swatch will tell time as well as a Rolex but, for some, won't have the same perceived value or pride of ownership. This is one reason why I wonder if I'll be happier with the S400s or Tablette 10s. Performance wise (in my largish room) probably the S400s, for the rest probably the Tablettes. For desktop maybe the Harbeths. Wish I could afford all three.
Mike, You articulated the draw of these speakers in a way that I meant to, but totally forgot about once I turned the camera on. They are a luxury good that delivers a 'pride of ownership' in a way that many speakers in this class lack. For me, I'd be perfectly happy with the S400's as mains, and the P3's as the desktop solution.
Great review! I had a pair of P3s for a few years and loved them. I ended up selling them to try a bunch of other stuff, including the C7s, only to end up with a new pair of the P3ESR XDs. It's early days with them but, yah, it's love. I am in the process of figuring out floor stands for them. What do you like/use? I currently have them on sand filled steel stands that I used with Dynas, but I don't think they are ideal. I'm looking at Skylans and HiFi Racks right now.
Hey Sean ... you all good over there? Try to review the Rogers LS3/5a Classic. Do a comparison between Rogers and Harbeth. I just had the opportunity to do it. Was interesting. Stay safe!!!
Themos Yannakou ... apples and oranges. Harbeth got that natural tone with just the right amount of extension on the highs. Rogers has that sparkle. Both got its own character that I enjoy. I wish I could buy the Rogers but 2 LS3/5a speakers is kinda crazy. I’m looking at the new Rogers LS5/9 Classic. Will be nice. Waiting for them to go into full production. 😬
Thanks for the excellent review! When describing the treble, you mention that there is a "grit" to the sound. When you say this, do you mean that both the standard P3ESR and the 40th anniversary have this "grit" in the treble or is it more apparent in the 40th anniversary? I own the standard P3ESR and love them. I've been thinking of upgrading to the 40th but have concerns considering that they're not as laid back sounding as the standard version. I plan on auditioning the 40th anniversary soon but something tells me that I may find them to be slightly bright compared to the standard P3ESR. Does the transparency you describe in the 40th anniversary drastically affect how the upper mids and treble sound compared to the standard version?
For some reason, a notification of your comment just randomly popped up! To answer your question: Yeah, both versions of the P3 have a 'gritty' character to the top end. However, it *is* more apparent on the 40th Anniversary model. The biggest differences that you're going to hear between the two P3's is this: The midrange and bass on the 40th will be notably cleaner, and I think you'll find that this is a good thing. The treble is where things get interesting. You may enjoy and even prefer the extra bit of air and extension that you get with the 40th's. On the other hand, you may walk away feeling like it's too much of a good thing when compared to the vanilla P3. At that point, it becomes a matter of pure taste.
@@ZeroFidelity Thanks for the response! I have an audition set up for this Thursday. Looking forward to hearing them and have a feeling I may end up walking out of the showroom the new owner of the 40th anniversaries :)
@@rg6556 I ended up sticking with the standard version. I've always been happy with them. I did audition the Trenner and Friedl Sun speakers when I was at my dealer. Very nice small stand mounts comparable to the P3ESR (just a lot smaller). If I ever decide to get rid of my P3ESRs, I would probably go with the Trenner and Friedls.
I'm looking seriously at these mini monitors. Sure, they're not cheap. In Australia they're AUD5000 a pair which is a lot of coin for a bookshelf. I'm also looking at the ProAc Response or the Tablette. But when I had a look at the interior of a Response, I thought WTF? Just not nice for around AUD6000. Splits in the mdf where the screws sit. Why not threaded inserts at this price point? I was underwhelmed to say the least. Doesn't mean I won't buy them, just that the PS3 looks to be better constructed... I know, it's about how they sound. Both Harbeth and ProAc have stellar reputations and I probably wouldn't regret either. But when you've seen a speaker with its trousers down, you have to wonder that sound and general quality notwithstanding, am I getting a decent bang for buck, or is it all hyperbole....?
Expensive, as always, is purely relative. I agree with you though. If people knew HOW these speakers were made, nevermind the economics behind running a small luxury brand, then I think (some) people would change their perspective regarding the price.
@@ZeroFidelity I remember the old LS35A going back to late 70s and one big thumpy sub off in the corner to hope to get some bass. Anyway on a lark I bought the KEF LS50 for under a grand and two REL T5 for under a grand so under 2 grand total if my math is right. But that olive wood is beautiful and if you do want to shove them against a wall and as you say like that midrange well so be it.
Too bad :( I think these are a used market bargain, since they have the same design goals / speakers as the LS3/5a and therefore could be comparable. Don't know about the availability in the US for these, but could be a top-tip for people.
@@TheRjee Sorry man. To be fair, almost every single ProAc I've heard so far, (right up to their former flagship) seems to share similar voicing. I'd describe it as being V shaped. Slightly thin mids. Sparkling (but not aggressive) highs. Warm lower/upper mid-bass. My impression of ProAc is that they do an excellent job of voicing a speaker that makes for a fun listen, putting emphasis on frequencies that people find impressive, without crossing the line into 'overdone' territory.
No worries, dont be sorry for anything :) These kef's don't use ProAc drivers but the same as LS3/5a, hence the comment and tip for people like me that can't or won't pay upwards of 2k for a set of speakers but still want a (possibly) similar sound signature. @@ZeroFidelity
Nice review. I’ve had the Harbeth P3 Anniversary Edition for about 3 months. Great , super transparent sound with a 10 watt single ended amp and now just breaking in a new Conrad Johnson CAV 45 with somewhat mixed results. Also, been noticing an odd, irritating metallic sound coming out of the right speaker but probably need more time to determine if it’s in the recordings or something wrong with the metal dome tweeter itself. Any thoughts?
I got my P3ESR how I like them after a year or so, and they have been just great. So as the saying goes, don't fuc_ with what isn't broken right? Also, when I got mine they were about 12000 HKD. The new 40th is more than twice of that. I think I will wait until my P3s break first 😅. Thank you for your insightful offerings and efforts!
Any comparison between this and proAc tablette 10 signature? So difficult to pick for near field and desktop setup ( about 3-4 feet listening position from the speakers) thanks a lot
That's an interesting question. On one hand, I'd say that the P3's sound more natural with human speech than your average stat. That being said, a good set of electrostatic speakers will have this 'walk through' sense of transparency that makes for a unique listening experience. Stats, especially full-range stats, also tend to make it sound as though a singer has lips that are 10+ft wide. Some people love this effect. Others don't. Ultimately, I have a feeling it'll just boil down to personal taste. I like stats, but if I were mostly concerned about natural tone - particularly as it relates to vocals - then I'd give the nod to the P3's over any similar priced Stat that I've heard thus far.
@@ZeroFidelity nice thx for your input.. my guess is some electrostatics panel cover too much frequencies causing intermodulation distortion. what panels are you refering too when talking about electrostatics ? electrostatics need very specific and good amplifiers.. planars waves will always react differently to a room compare to woofers radial pattern. their level of transparency and no box require a perfect room..maybe you should try the new kingsound ks17
would be nice to know you opinion on the ATC scm12 pro versus this harbeth.. i'm always so sceptical of bookshelves .... i dont believe they can touch good electrostatics in any way.. its just physics.. i think maybe some very good dome midrange or berylium midrange ala paradigm persona 3b could do it tho.. even planars im not sure can do it
@@lextr3110It's true that flat-panels speakers like electrostastics, planars, and full-range ribbons, have the advantage of featuring a large radiating surface area. Couple that with their "boxless" sound, and you have something that many people are rightfully drawn to. That said, cones and domes by nature of how they work, tend to be more dynamic and punchy than their larger, thinly membraned counterparts. Hence why a drummer will likely flock to a large cone and dome speaker over say, a set of Quad ESL's. And heh, I'd take a good soft dome tweeter or a nice paper cone over Berylium on most days of the week. Not my kinda sound, although I totally get why people love it.
@@ZeroFidelity i admit that ive also heard awesomely good soft domes and that most hard domes i dont like.. sometime it's the recording that isnt "soft" tho... i dont like soft tweeter or speakers design that tune to have a darker tone(not flat) so that everybody like because they always listen to bad recordings and cant stand flat high frequencies. i mostly listen to very well produced electronic music so it's another world. i agree that electrostatics can lack midbass and bass dynamic.. depending on the surface .. over 900hz tho they are hard to beat in term of resolution, speed, air, tone.. also bad crossover kill any electrostatics since you constantly ear the crossover.. same with amp and dac.. it's not that it will be ear piercing but you just ear everything in the chain and it stick as fake.. or as broken, muffled or damped the harbeth 40th ive heard in a youtube demo was a little strident in some place in the high frequencies in my opinion.. maybe its the recording or youtube or my AKM4399 dac.. but it could also be your amp that is darker than neutral and/or the guy amp in the demo was brighter than neutral.. note that planar waves are different not only because of surface of diaphram.. they act like a focused line array.. so they drop at 1.5db per feet instead of -3db/feet on woofers.. also dispersion is controlled so it could be bad in some case (bass is more omni directonal by nature so will bounce on the wall while the rest will not creating imbalance) but at the same time lot less side,top, bottom reflection than normal speakers.. you need to absorb the back wave tho..
More of the classic BBC sound. Warmer. More rolled off. Not quite as versatile in terms of playing back various types of music - but nonetheless very pleasing to listen to.
Good review, thanks. But dude...pointing out a possible nasty interpretation of BBC, is in fact, bringing attention to it, thus for all intents and purposes, you’ve brought out the very thinking that you’re calling others “dirty” for thinking. I could’ve done without the reference, thanks.
@@ZeroFidelity I tried that. I got stuff like tea and crumpets, guys with bad teeth in bowler hats, fish and chips, the Queen of England, and oddly enough. 1 random picture of Graham Norton with what looks like lotion on his face?
Hi, I own a 25 watts audio innovations tube amp that just received new tubes and caps. Now I am looking for a new set of speakers. Based on your reviews I am thinking s400 or the P3’s. Which ones will the tube amp drive best? As you mention these need 50 - 60 watts to fully come alive. Ps, I listen to all genres and I’m looking for the best all rounder of the two. Thanks!!
Hi Zero Fidelity, thanks for the reply! I’m mostly into guitar based stuff, from singer songwriter to Zappa with occasional excursions into hip hop dance etc I rarely listen with loud volumes.
@@marcaster2008 -Aw man. So this one is pretty tough. If it were just guitar and singer songwriter stuff, I'd tell you to go for the P3's. But hip hop, dance and music like that, puts you right at S400 territory. The tie breaker will boil down to the kinda experience you want. Do you want a more laid back and relaxing sound, or do you want something that's more lively?
Zero Fidelity I know!! I think I would be more into the lively experience. The dynamics of a song is what gives me the chills every time.. be it singer songwriter or dance.. and as the tube amp is inherently softer and laid back the s400 combo might be the perfect combo to find the sweet spot. What do you think?
When it comes to speaker demonstration everybody is always playing the same kind of music (voices & natural instruments) for to demonstrate the overwhelming skills of this speaker. But thats not all. They NEVER play any other music, for the speakers just fail... It's that easy... 🤷 Truth is a very simple thing....
The original LS 3/5a were REALLY fragile. Much like Harbeth, Kef etc. They used high ESR electrolytic caps. The new likely use some kind of film cap for a more neutral and open sound. Each time I have re-capped this era speaker, they benefit from better caps that a non-audiophile can hear. It's all about low ESR signal coupling. The modern drivers are far superior (more light and rigid with more robust VC) than the original. At $2900, there are (I'll say it) better speakers new and used. If they are $1500, they'd be head of the class. That being said, I still can't deal with opera. Her screaming sounds like she's getting a BBC staff member.
I agree about the driver tech being superior and the benefits that stem from simple cap upgrades. I hear what you're saying about the price, but I don't fall completely in line with that because the question is: What, for the same price, beats the 40th P3's at their own game? If I had that answer, then I'd be 100% with you. And psh. Opera can be great! Particularly Anna Netbreko.
@@ZeroFidelity I'm just not an opera fan, nor a gangsta rap fan. Don't care much for extreme metal (black metal etc). I recognize the skillsets in each form, but these music formats drill my nerves. Maybe if I became fluent in Italian.... As to better speakers? New and used I have an extensive list. That being said...I'm not going to post a list that will inevitably devolve into a subjective argument. The Harbeth are fine speakers. I enjoyed them at the Bristol, UK Hi-fi show a few years ago. One of the best booths regardless of price. Carry on.
I totally respect everybody's opinion and enjoyed your review! However, I would like for reviewers to be honest about the price of this speaker which is grossly overpriced. Some reviewers go as far as saying this speaker is a "bargain and good value" and that it performs above its price. How a 12" tall speaker that cost over 5k is a bargain and a good value?
@@chrispendergast7792 Special Forty plays very dynamical and sounds just like a good hifi speaker. Bass is fast and rather deep for the box size, mids and treble are very clear but not lifelike. Special Forty uses Esotar Forty tweeter. They play good, but I still was missing something, so I got myself next tier from Dynaudio - Contour 20. They have legendary Esotar2 tweeter, which sounds very very natural and never harsh and you can listen for hours long. Also better bass on contours. I use them for critical listening. I have Harbeth p3 too. I use them when I just want to listen to music after day of work. P3 sounds warmer, mids are to die for, trebles are very spacious. It is basically tube amp in world of speakers. You can listen on very low volumes and still hear everything, but Harbeth can play louder too. Just not crazy loud, but why would someone want to damage their hearing. About dynamics it is not so great, but enough. I would give up my P3 only for their new 40th edition.
@@awdadwadwad1723 Thanks, just listened to the P3ESR with a Primaluna Integrated thought it was a great match no chance to audition the Dynaudio I think ill stick with the Harbeth brand if I want a bigger sound than the P3 !
That's a very fair question! Short answer is: Because these aren't made on an automated assembly line like so many other loudspeakers. The radial drivers are made by Harbeth (and not by somebody else for Harbeth). The veneers are expensive. You're also paying for the time that it takes for Harbeth to assemble each speaker, which includes a double-check quality control process for each and every part. The company also needs to compensate its staff with fair UK wages. Then lastly, there needs to be enough margin built into each product to not only procure enough parts for support and to cover basic operating expenses, but to also make sure that their distributors and dealers can earn enough to justify representing/selling the line. There's quite a bit that goes into bringing products like this to market!
@@edincleve1955 I have no problem with made in China. Automated assembly line is fine for me (I call it efficient!). Buchardt S400 is made in China, have QC, no mark up, goes down deep, fills up the room if you want to. If I pay over 2 grands, the speaker should be easy to drive and can go down lower than 75 Hz.
T A R S, I didn't say you or anyone else should "have a problem" with made in China. The point is the Western nations (as well as Japan, Korea and Taiwan) cannot make products for the same price as China. Practice your reading comprehension. If you went to college, you must be a recent graduate.
@@edincleve1955 I am so sorry if I offended you Ed, I really didn't mean to. I was responding to Sean, not you. What I mean was I don't mind S400 is made in China or rolling out from an automated assembly line. All his points are no longer an issue if I pick Buchardt over Harbeth. I should have clicked the reply button from Sean.
Was there? Oh well! Nothings worse than taking the product out for a photoshoot, only to come home and discover that something you didn't physically see was stuck to the product the entire time. Thus ruining the entire shoot and wasting a whole lot of time! heh
Dynamic capability isn't just about raw visceral output. It's also the ability to transmit a lot of energy and to then suddenly stop on a dime, which the P3's do surprising well given their size.
So grossly overpriced. I wonder what $600 upgrade gets you of what really is. How do you increase a price tag $600 on a 12 inch tall speakers? What a joke!
The 40th P3ESR's aren't for everyone, but the people who DO get them will likely fall in love. Meanwhile, I really do need to get a microphone. One of these days...
Hello again Sir thank you for this video and it's been a month since your last video and I'm excited, just want to ask what did you use to play and power (player, pre-amps, amps etc.) the p3s? and what's the measurement between the two speakers how far they apart and how close are you (near field listening) to the speakers? Thank you in advance.
@@raisinyao Thanks for the reminder! I knew I was forgetting to mention something in the description. That information will be posted soon! As for measurements. In general, I'm only 2ft from the front baffle when listening on my desktop rig. I'm about 6ft away in the main 2-channel system. Distance between the speakers can vary between 4 to 6 feet, depending on the equipment and how I want to load the room.
Paul McGowan just a got a Neumann ;)
@@freethot333 The U87 Ai? If so...that's a great choice!
@@ZeroFidelity not sure Sean.. th-cam.com/video/fAoj4zMCEAg/w-d-xo.html
another awesome review. Clear, tangible, very concise and en-point! you are the best when it comes to short presentation, clear visual, and all the important decision criteria are well articulated. Thanks Sean!
Thanks man!
seriously, all the impt criteria that are necessary for me to make a decision are available, you are the best when it comes to crisp and palpable presentation of a product. I'm looking fwd to your articulation on the Elac B6.2, with the tubes that you hook up with, it sounded palpably bright with certain songs.
I loved the P3ESR's when I heard them. Very easy speaker to listen to and fall in love with. Best handling of the vocal range I've ever experienced - and that's compared to many studio monitors. I can only imagine how good these are. Enjoy your new babies!
Thanks John. Yep, these speakers truly do give a masterclass on the reproduction of human speech.
John Hildebrand the neuroscientist?
No... My science expertise ends with mixing drinks. :)
Hats off to you as you really did them justice. Your review was spot on, superb explanation especially for people that don't know these historically important speakers.
Nice work Sean - I believe you nailed the P3ESRs (they took me off the merry-go-round!)
Thanks Herb! I saw your review of the 40th P3's. Good stuff! May they bring you many years of great listening sessions!
Dude so happy to have you back with another great review. I watched Ron's review of the Elac and by the looks of it your both rubbing of each other's good qualities, Kudos to the both of you. I haven't pulled the trigger on my next speaker investment. But I am definitely leaning strongly towards the Buchardts. You might think me a bit spoiled as this system will be my 5th in my townhouse. The closest I've come to owning a bookshelf speaker system is my Focal XS 2.1 that I bought to use with my iMac back ironically enough as your first Harths in 2011. In fact that's how I just watched your review. I know due to copyright crap you can't play more music like stuff I like to listen to from AC/DC & Allman Bros. to Zeppelin and everything in between including progressive Jazz and a little classical every now and then. So you and everyone have been saying lots of good things about the Buchardt S300 & S400 based on everything I've told you which of the two would be best to get for my living room mostly vinyl listening ? I like my Focals a lot they've served me well since 2011 and love my Definitive Tech flagship towers in wall surrounds in my man cave surround set up also as for cans I use AKG 701 There I've given you everything short of having you come to my house and see what I'm going for in this system. Your opinion and recommendation will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance and keep on doing what you do better and better each time I get to see and hear your channel. Peace out kid lol.
I appreciate the kind words. So here's the thing: From what I can tell, you tend to like a sound that has some sparkle to it. Focals. Def Techs. AKGs. These are anything but smooth and rolled off. Given that, I think the S400's may be more to your liking. While I genuinely think you could find happiness with either the 40th P3 or the S400's, it sounds to me like your preference is well defined. Hope this helps!
Dunno if it's just me, but I feel like your production quality and just quality of review has gotten better over the last few videos. Keep it up man!
Great little guys. The bass that it produces doesn't thump, but it is a quality bass. I have a pair of Spendor, licensed pair.. love them.
Nice review Zero. The 40s are definitely pretty, but I'm still digging my P3s on the desktop driven by the Heed Elixir you recommended. Simple combo, great synergy and very easy to love. Peace.
Hell yeah man! Glad you enjoy it.
Wanna know More about that 8 watt valve amp...
Ii got my p3ers 4 years ago and I trully think this "is the last speaker I ll ever buy". Great review man.
Lefty FPV
Exactly
I like Sennheiser HD650 so Harbeth sounds like my speakers I would like to purchase. Thanks for the review.
I have never been listening to Harbeth speakers. But I really really like the design.
Sean you are definitely my favorite reviewer by far. Although I have to say I disagree with you on the sound characteristics of the AKG 702 not 701 my mistake they are very neutral not sparkly at least to my ears. The Def Techs are more on the bottom heavy with the built-in powered subs and radiators. Now the Focal XS 2.1 I'll agree they are a bit on as you said sparkly side as I think their whole line are. The MB Silver 500 are also more the bright side, but not the GE Tritons with the ribbon tweeters. If you remember those were the two I was deciding on when I contacted you. I've decided against both and am going to go with the Buchardt only I don't know if I should go with the S300 or the S400
You'll laugh when you hear what I'm playing my Pro-ject TT through. My Mackie PA mixer & SRM450 speakers. I DJ at my Jets tailgate. Let me know which Buchardt you think I should go with. Thanks bro, you are the man truly enjoyed your last review seemed a lot more polished, but still honest and not boring. Please get back to me ASAP so maybe I'll have new toys before the new year. Thanks in advance kid.
Not familiar with the 701's so I have no doubt that you're right. As for the Buchardts - Go S400's. :)
701 is a bit too bright
702 is less bright but colored at midrange still a bit more 2k energy but some recessed 3k-5k.
Thanks - an excellent review, honest and truly informative as always. Liking the outdoor shots too, they add that little extra.They do sound like my sort of speaker, but as you say a bit pricey. Maybe I'll have to build a kit version of the LS 5A, I think there's one available here in the UK.
Hey Norman. I think a kit would be fun. Falcon used to have a VERY competitively priced kit until they shifted their business model to the classic distributor/dealer network. Unless you're into DIY, I'd suggest going for a pair of used P3's. That'll get you 80% of the way to the 40th Anni's.
What a great review..really love it. ❤👍👍👍
Really nice vocal presence for such a compact cabinet, wish my Roth OLi Ra3's had the same. Great review!
Great review - thanks! Seriously considering getting these to pair with my Rogue Cronus Magnum III and Rega P6. My listening set up is in a pretty small space so these would seem to fit the bill, and I listen to mostly jazz and classical, rarely blasting anything. Any thoughts on the need for stands or distance from walls?
Who says Harbeth P3 series is overpriced? It is very important for younger people to enjoy music at their desktop in modern lifestyles. The Hifi-man HE1000 headphone sells for $3000, just like the newest P3. I love my HE560 headphone and my P3ESR (M20.1) for desktop listening. Are not world-class speakers a better investment than world-class headphones? The resale value is incredible for Harbeth, anywhere in the world. I would not bother with those $30K and $100K speakers because 98% do not sound tonally better than Harbeth P3 series. Huge and expensive speakers can do some hi-fi spectaculars, if that's what you want. At the end of the day, it is tonal beauty, relaxed presentation, and slightly warm neutrality that keep us listening to music for relaxation and enjoyment, just like our reviewer said. A good hi-fi system invites you to listen to more music for those deep emotional connections. Over-the-top hifi systems invite you to listen to the same audiophile super-recordings over and over again. There is little joy to be gained from the latter experience.
They are fantastic, world class speaker.
Wish they were more affordable
excellent review as usual! thanks.
I owned the original Rogers LS3/5a back in the day. I have fond memories of them but to really make them sing I used to drive them with some very high end and very powerful gear. Gear that I could no longer afford or would want sitting in my living room. Which is the main reason I'm not that interested in the P3ESR. Good mid range is nice but at times I also enjoy a driving beat with some visceral (primal) attributes. I'm quite confident the S400s will be a good compromise unless they sound like Dali, B&W, etc. We shall soon find out. If not I'll be looking hard and fast at Proac or Totem for my holiday gift to self.
I cannot comment on the Rogers. What I can say however, is that you don't need to pair either of the P3's up to high dollar equipment in order to enjoy great sound out of them. Of course, like any proper high end loudspeaker, they stand to benefit from superior electronics, but they certainly don't *demand* this pairing like some products do. Still, from everything you've told me, it sounds like the S400's fall right in line with what you're looking for.
If you like the LS3/5a and ProAc. Check out the Celef LS8 made by ProAc.
Well done - thanks for doing what you do.
Love the pretty outdoor photos.
Thanks!
Nice review as always. What a lot of people don't understand is the crossovers can make or break the speakers sound. Harbeth puts in a lot of R&D . To bad there are not any high end stores around anymore to addition these speakers because at nearly 3k you want to be sure.
I agree about speaker volume I don’t listen to music at high volume I set my volume to 85 dB and enjoy the sound of good recording.
Outstanding review!
nice review sean
Thanks!
Great review.
Would love to hear your opinion of the Klipsch monitors Steve reviewed. Your reviews are more detailed.
I live in a small detached cottage, I am lucky if I can go above 30 watts without annoying the neighbours I want to hear detail at low power levels so these speakers are perfect for me I will have to see if I can find some ex-display or second-hand items.
Awesome review
There is alot of competition in the bookshelf speaker world. Hard to pay $3000 for a pair of 6 inch 2 way speakers with low sensitivity. Just saying...
Great review!
Hi, Sean.
Very, very nice video (and topic, 'cause the LS3/5A are an audio topic in themselves).
I'm now 60, and I haven't the opportunity to listen to ANY version of these all-famous speakers yet.
In general, LOVE british speakers (my main ones are the Mission 767, all said). But..., $2,300 for these? Keep in mind that the Mission costed me in 1990 about the same, and they are (excuse me the metric system) 1,60 meters tall, weighs 80 kg each, have a perfect vertical D'Apolito array of five drivers each and came with an external active low pass adjustable filter + low freq amplifier (Low Freq Alignment Unit, LFAU), and I upgraded this one later with the PSX, an additional power supply wich costed me (in nowadays terms) some $120. If you make the addition, my speakers system costed me some $3,000 (nowadays, too. I conjecture that Mission took them off of the market quite fast most probably because they were loosing a lot of money with them).
My question (and perplexity) is: How is it possible such a small difference in price with such a big difference in physical characteristics (the Missions are constructed with sturdy materials, too)?
I hope to listen someday these so relevant speakers, or die in the attempt!
Glad you're digging on those Missions! So the answer to your question is multi-faced. Prices are often governed by the companies business model, access to materials, current economic conditions in their locale, and of course, how the product is made. To better explain the price of the P3, I'm going to copy and paste what I just wrote to somebody else. I admit this is to save myself a bit of time. Cheers!
Short answer is: Because these aren't made on an automated assembly line like so many other loudspeakers. The radial drivers are made by Harbeth (and not by somebody else for Harbeth). The veneers are expensive. You're also paying for the time that it takes for Harbeth to assemble each speaker, which includes a double-check quality control process for each and every part. The company also needs to compensate its staff with fair UK wages. Then lastly, there needs to be enough margin built into each product to not only procure enough parts for support and to cover basic operating expenses, but to also make sure that their distributors and dealers can earn enough to justify representing/selling the line. There's quite a bit that goes into bringing products like this to market!
BBC.. ha!!! Great, that’s funny. Dudley “Hardwood” Harwood and BBC. Love it. Thanks for the laugh and the review.
Like your show or program. i always had to tip my hat to Harbeth , i figured that so expensive , man they must be good.
I was shocked to see on you tube , a recent purchaser was complaining about glue smudges , and stains , finger prints etc, the small Harbeth like your reviewing , and i said to myself , dude just take them back. Anyway he dealt with the distributor , ended up sending new drivers and they fell apart.
So i'm stunned , do we avoid buying Harbeth made on a Monday or Friday
On top of all that , i ran across a you tube from GR Research specifically on the model you are reviewing. people send him speakers with the expectation he can tweek them or improve them
well , he declared the little Harbeth was pretty smooth , and then he checked the inside, WoW there was so much components there, in addition to "steel" binding posts, which is a no no ,
a host of really cheesy components, cheapest he has seen to date, he was perplexed considering how expensive these speakers are. He declared the speaker was not fit to upgrade , and to start over looking for a new speaker.
With that in mind i always had a inkling that these were really over priced, plus the thin wall design started back in the war WW2 when wood was scarce, That is no longer an issue .
i think i'll put my money into Kef ref 1 or B&W 805 D4
How do the P3ESR 40th Anniversary compare with the Falcon LS3/5a?
Love the p3esr, I used to listen the old Rogers ls 3/5a. I love that speakers, but when I compared it to this p3esr, i shocked. The p3esr delivered a soul to the sound and very very easy to listen and love. Thanks for the great review. May I ask , what amp did you used to combine with this p3esr?
I heard the Human 81 based on the classic EPI 100 are comparable. Anyone know? They run $540 a pair. Hard to believe, so I am curious.
I am all about sweet midrange. I want to FEEL Sade or Diana Krall singing to me in my living room.
Hi Sean. Good to see you're still alive and making great reviews. :) I had a pair of Rogers LS3/5a's with 2 Cizek subwoofers "back in the day". I wish I still had that setup, because the subs made a very good speaker into a great speaker. Voices were unbelievably realistic. Anyone who heard it was stunned by how life-like it sounded. Right now I have KEF LS50's with 2 subs and it doesn't approach the sound of the LS3/5a's. Btw, I love all genres of music except opera and rap. How did you get into opera? Do you speak Italian or German? Maybe if I understood the words I would appreciate it more.
You need to get back into the LS3/5a game, Ed! About opera; I actually enjoy not knowing the words. :D Still, I wouldn't say I'm into opera. It's simply a genre of music that I respect and enjoy from time to time. To answer your question; I suppose my initial exposure began when I stumbled across a YT video of Anna Netrebko. Good stuff. :)
Have you still got your SHL5+? I was hoping you might review the anniversary edition of these.
nice review, as a P3 owner I can only agree on your thoughts, this are speakers the put a smile on your face. What kind of desk stand you have them in the video behind you?
Thanks Davides. I admit I don't know what 'desk stand' you're talking about. Are you talking about the wooden one at around 15:30? If so, that's something I made. For normal desktop use, a good stand would be something from IsoAcoustics.
Interesting and just wondering if they could be compared to a set of Lintons - I am a jazz and rock fan.. so I guess the P3s wont work for me -- driven by a Sugden A21.. Class A
Sean - I have watched your zero fidelity reviews of both but wondered if you would you recommend the 40th anniversary Harbeth P3 ESRs over the latest Morel 6s if they were equal in price?
Hi i have Harbeth p3esr 40th and i got a rme adi2 dac preamp what amp you suggest for it ?
how you compared these speakers against the S400
The 40th P3's edge out the S400's when it comes to the naturalness of the human voice, low-level resolution, and instrumental timbre (in some ways). The P3's also, in my opinion, have a distinct edge when it comes to raw build quality. The S400's however, get the nod in every other major category. Ultimately, it'll boil down to the kinda listening experience you want to have.
Thinking on purchasing the p3xd version. Any chance on reviewing these? They will be used with my marantz pm8006.
Great review! Harbeth P3ESR 40 or KEF LS50BE?
Hi Sean, just wondering if you could shed some light regarding Harbeth P3ESR vs Buchardt S400?
Cheers!
Hey Phil - Enough people are asking about how the S400's compare to the Harbeths and Totems that I may have to make a video about it. If I can secure a pair of S400's again, I'll be sure to make this happen.
@@ZeroFidelity Thanks for the heads up Sean. Much appreciated. Can't wait for that review. Your content has always been awesome by the way :)
@@findyourzero Thanks for the kind words, Phil!
Phil Chen
Not even in the same breath, not even remotely comparable
Those are cute little speakers!
Which is better than P3esr? Is Wilson tunetot better?
How about bermester bookshelf speakers?
I got the 30.1s (used!) in rosewood instead.
Do a video on how to record quality audio for TH-cam videos...on your audio channel.
The P3ESR's fall into the same category as persian rugs, old school handmade watches, Japanese knives, European designer clothes, etc...
A Swatch will tell time as well as a Rolex but, for some, won't have the same perceived value or pride of ownership. This is one reason why I wonder if I'll be happier with the S400s or Tablette 10s. Performance wise (in my largish room) probably the S400s, for the rest probably the Tablettes. For desktop maybe the Harbeths. Wish I could afford all three.
Mike, You articulated the draw of these speakers in a way that I meant to, but totally forgot about once I turned the camera on. They are a luxury good that delivers a 'pride of ownership' in a way that many speakers in this class lack. For me, I'd be perfectly happy with the S400's as mains, and the P3's as the desktop solution.
Great review! I had a pair of P3s for a few years and loved them. I ended up selling them to try a bunch of other stuff, including the C7s, only to end up with a new pair of the P3ESR XDs. It's early days with them but, yah, it's love. I am in the process of figuring out floor stands for them. What do you like/use? I currently have them on sand filled steel stands that I used with Dynas, but I don't think they are ideal. I'm looking at Skylans and HiFi Racks right now.
whis is the better version of the harbeth ?
Great review! How are they doing with the Mastersound? - they are not very sensitive
The MastersounD Box has zero issues driving them. That amp has tons of balls and grip to it. :)
Hey Sean ... you all good over there?
Try to review the Rogers LS3/5a Classic. Do a comparison between Rogers and Harbeth. I just had the opportunity to do it. Was interesting.
Stay safe!!!
Which did you prefer?
Themos Yannakou ... apples and oranges. Harbeth got that natural tone with just the right amount of extension on the highs. Rogers has that sparkle. Both got its own character that I enjoy. I wish I could buy the Rogers but 2 LS3/5a speakers is kinda crazy.
I’m looking at the new Rogers LS5/9 Classic. Will be nice. Waiting for them to go into full production. 😬
Thanks, excellent review
How do they compare to 30
2 Annivesary Edition?
Thanks for the excellent review! When describing the treble, you mention that there is a "grit" to the sound. When you say this, do you mean that both the standard P3ESR and the 40th anniversary have this "grit" in the treble or is it more apparent in the 40th anniversary?
I own the standard P3ESR and love them. I've been thinking of upgrading to the 40th but have concerns considering that they're not as laid back sounding as the standard version. I plan on auditioning the 40th anniversary soon but something tells me that I may find them to be slightly bright compared to the standard P3ESR. Does the transparency you describe in the 40th anniversary drastically affect how the upper mids and treble sound compared to the standard version?
For some reason, a notification of your comment just randomly popped up! To answer your question: Yeah, both versions of the P3 have a 'gritty' character to the top end. However, it *is* more apparent on the 40th Anniversary model. The biggest differences that you're going to hear between the two P3's is this: The midrange and bass on the 40th will be notably cleaner, and I think you'll find that this is a good thing. The treble is where things get interesting. You may enjoy and even prefer the extra bit of air and extension that you get with the 40th's. On the other hand, you may walk away feeling like it's too much of a good thing when compared to the vanilla P3. At that point, it becomes a matter of pure taste.
@@ZeroFidelity Thanks for the response! I have an audition set up for this Thursday. Looking forward to hearing them and have a feeling I may end up walking out of the showroom the new owner of the 40th anniversaries :)
@@trailchasing5081 Have fun!
@@trailchasing5081 , did you walk out with the 40th anniversary or did you ended up preferring the standard version?
@@rg6556 I ended up sticking with the standard version. I've always been happy with them. I did audition the Trenner and Friedl Sun speakers when I was at my dealer. Very nice small stand mounts comparable to the P3ESR (just a lot smaller). If I ever decide to get rid of my P3ESRs, I would probably go with the Trenner and Friedls.
I'm looking seriously at these mini monitors. Sure, they're not cheap. In Australia they're AUD5000 a pair which is a lot of coin for a bookshelf.
I'm also looking at the ProAc Response or the Tablette. But when I had a look at the interior of a Response, I thought WTF? Just not nice for around AUD6000. Splits in the mdf where the screws sit. Why not threaded inserts at this price point? I was underwhelmed to say the least.
Doesn't mean I won't buy them, just that the PS3 looks to be better constructed...
I know, it's about how they sound. Both Harbeth and ProAc have stellar reputations and I probably wouldn't regret either. But when you've seen a speaker with its trousers down, you have to wonder that sound and general quality notwithstanding, am I getting a decent bang for buck, or is it all hyperbole....?
well done review..
Yoy should perform a droptest to see if its worth the extra price
Couldn't you add a pair of subwoofers for a more fuller listening experience?
Yup. If someone were to do that, I'd highly suggest a sub from REL or MJ Acoustics.
Ok, I can get the Harbeth or Buchardt for the same amount which should I get?
Kevin Thomas
Harbeth
$3490 for the regular XD models now. Inflation is a bee-sting.
I wouldn't call them expensive. Handmade in engalnd and the entire speaker made by them, so i think price is fair.
Expensive, as always, is purely relative. I agree with you though. If people knew HOW these speakers were made, nevermind the economics behind running a small luxury brand, then I think (some) people would change their perspective regarding the price.
@@ZeroFidelity I remember the old LS35A going back to late 70s and one big thumpy sub off in the corner to hope to get some bass. Anyway on a lark I bought the KEF LS50 for under a grand and two REL T5 for under a grand so under 2 grand total if my math is right. But that olive wood is beautiful and if you do want to shove them against a wall and as you say like that midrange well so be it.
John Doe
Please don’t compare Kef made in China to Harbeth
Should not even be mentioned in the same breath
Hi Shaun, how would these compare to the kef reference 101?
I genuinely couldn't say!
Too bad :( I think these are a used market bargain, since they have the same design goals / speakers as the LS3/5a and therefore could be comparable.
Don't know about the availability in the US for these, but could be a top-tip for people.
@@TheRjee Sorry man. To be fair, almost every single ProAc I've heard so far, (right up to their former flagship) seems to share similar voicing. I'd describe it as being V shaped. Slightly thin mids. Sparkling (but not aggressive) highs. Warm lower/upper mid-bass. My impression of ProAc is that they do an excellent job of voicing a speaker that makes for a fun listen, putting emphasis on frequencies that people find impressive, without crossing the line into 'overdone' territory.
No worries, dont be sorry for anything :) These kef's don't use ProAc drivers but the same as LS3/5a, hence the comment and tip for people like me that can't or won't pay upwards of 2k for a set of speakers but still want a (possibly) similar sound signature.
@@ZeroFidelity
Zero Fidelity
Not even close to Harbeth
Pro Ac is not great anymore
Nice review. I’ve had the Harbeth P3 Anniversary Edition for about 3 months. Great , super transparent sound with a 10 watt single ended amp and now just breaking in a new Conrad Johnson CAV 45 with somewhat mixed results. Also, been noticing an odd, irritating metallic sound coming out of the right speaker but probably need more time to determine if it’s in the recordings or something wrong with the metal dome tweeter itself. Any thoughts?
you got problem with tweeter?
I got my P3ESR how I like them after a year or so, and they have been just great. So as the saying goes, don't fuc_ with what isn't broken right? Also, when I got mine they were about 12000 HKD. The new 40th is more than twice of that. I think I will wait until my P3s break first 😅. Thank you for your insightful offerings and efforts!
you should try klinger favre. harbeth has no chance
Any comparison between this and proAc tablette 10 signature? So difficult to pick for near field and desktop setup ( about 3-4 feet listening position from the speakers) thanks a lot
And by the way, liked and subbed. Thanks for the review.
.75 inch seems kinda small for a bbc.
It was cold in my room. :)
Wrong channel bro
$2890/pair WOW !
Hello what amplifier yo use?
Is the 40th edition same as the p3esr xd edition?
Other BBC ?
P3ESR 40th Anniversary Edition vs Proac Tablette 10 Signature
Damned good question. Wish I had an answer for ya.
It's only an opinion..... But the ProAc
@Mike B both are very capable...... I have one hifi regret..... moving on my super tablettes from mid/late 80s
I have a pair of the ProAc made Celef LS8's. Basically Stewart Tyler the designer of ProAc speakers modern interpretation of the LS3/5a.
@@marcus1970 Never heard the super Tablettes but I still have my Tablette Reference 8 Signatures and Tablette Anniversarys.
do they compare to electrostatics for vocal transparency?
That's an interesting question. On one hand, I'd say that the P3's sound more natural with human speech than your average stat. That being said, a good set of electrostatic speakers will have this 'walk through' sense of transparency that makes for a unique listening experience. Stats, especially full-range stats, also tend to make it sound as though a singer has lips that are 10+ft wide. Some people love this effect. Others don't. Ultimately, I have a feeling it'll just boil down to personal taste. I like stats, but if I were mostly concerned about natural tone - particularly as it relates to vocals - then I'd give the nod to the P3's over any similar priced Stat that I've heard thus far.
@@ZeroFidelity nice thx for your input.. my guess is some electrostatics panel cover too much frequencies causing intermodulation distortion.
what panels are you refering too when talking about electrostatics ?
electrostatics need very specific and good amplifiers..
planars waves will always react differently to a room compare to woofers radial pattern. their level of transparency and no box require a perfect room..maybe you should try the new kingsound ks17
would be nice to know you opinion on the ATC scm12 pro versus this harbeth.. i'm always so sceptical of bookshelves .... i dont believe they can touch good electrostatics in any way.. its just physics.. i think maybe some very good dome midrange or berylium midrange ala paradigm persona 3b could do it tho.. even planars im not sure can do it
@@lextr3110It's true that flat-panels speakers like electrostastics, planars, and full-range ribbons, have the advantage of featuring a large radiating surface area. Couple that with their "boxless" sound, and you have something that many people are rightfully drawn to. That said, cones and domes by nature of how they work, tend to be more dynamic and punchy than their larger, thinly membraned counterparts. Hence why a drummer will likely flock to a large cone and dome speaker over say, a set of Quad ESL's. And heh, I'd take a good soft dome tweeter or a nice paper cone over Berylium on most days of the week. Not my kinda sound, although I totally get why people love it.
@@ZeroFidelity i admit that ive also heard awesomely good soft domes and that most hard domes i dont like.. sometime it's the recording that isnt "soft" tho... i dont like soft tweeter or speakers design that tune to have a darker tone(not flat) so that everybody like because they always listen to bad recordings and cant stand flat high frequencies. i mostly listen to very well produced electronic music so it's another world.
i agree that electrostatics can lack midbass and bass dynamic.. depending on the surface .. over 900hz tho they are hard to beat in term of resolution, speed, air, tone..
also bad crossover kill any electrostatics since you constantly ear the crossover.. same with amp and dac.. it's not that it will be ear piercing but you just ear everything in the chain and it stick as fake.. or as broken, muffled or damped
the harbeth 40th ive heard in a youtube demo was a little strident in some place in the high frequencies in my opinion.. maybe its the recording or youtube or my AKM4399 dac.. but it could also be your amp that is darker than neutral and/or the guy amp in the demo was brighter than neutral..
note that planar waves are different not only because of surface of diaphram.. they act like a focused line array.. so they drop at 1.5db per feet instead of -3db/feet on woofers.. also dispersion is controlled so it could be bad in some case (bass is more omni directonal by nature so will bounce on the wall while the rest will not creating imbalance) but at the same time lot less side,top, bottom reflection than normal speakers..
you need to absorb the back wave tho..
New falcons?
More of the classic BBC sound. Warmer. More rolled off. Not quite as versatile in terms of playing back various types of music - but nonetheless very pleasing to listen to.
@@ZeroFidelity meaning falcons or ps3 are warmer and more rolled off?
@@intoitreviews The Falcons are warmer and smoother on top.
Have you heard the Graham LS35A?
@@ZeroFidelity
@@cleanyourears Sadly, I haven't. :(
Good review, thanks. But dude...pointing out a possible nasty interpretation of BBC, is in fact, bringing attention to it, thus for all intents and purposes, you’ve brought out the very thinking that you’re calling others “dirty” for thinking. I could’ve done without the reference, thanks.
What's the "other BBC"? Please explain. 🤣🤣🤣
Dare ya to do a google image search! :D
@@ZeroFidelity I tried that. I got stuff like tea and crumpets, guys with bad teeth in bowler hats, fish and chips, the Queen of England, and oddly enough. 1 random picture of Graham Norton with what looks like lotion on his face?
@@ZeroFidelity nothing there.
Hi, I own a 25 watts audio innovations tube amp that just received new tubes and caps. Now I am looking for a new set of speakers. Based on your reviews I am thinking s400 or the P3’s. Which ones will the tube amp drive best? As you mention these need 50 - 60 watts to fully come alive. Ps, I listen to all genres and I’m looking for the best all rounder of the two. Thanks!!
What kinda music in particular do you most listen to?
Hi Zero Fidelity, thanks for the reply! I’m mostly into guitar based stuff, from singer songwriter to Zappa with occasional excursions into hip hop dance etc I rarely listen with loud volumes.
@@marcaster2008 -Aw man. So this one is pretty tough. If it were just guitar and singer songwriter stuff, I'd tell you to go for the P3's. But hip hop, dance and music like that, puts you right at S400 territory. The tie breaker will boil down to the kinda experience you want. Do you want a more laid back and relaxing sound, or do you want something that's more lively?
Zero Fidelity I know!! I think I would be more into the lively experience. The dynamics of a song is what gives me the chills every time.. be it singer songwriter or dance.. and as the tube amp is inherently softer and laid back the s400 combo might be the perfect combo to find the sweet spot. What do you think?
@@marcaster2008 I think you're 100% right. :)
When it comes to speaker demonstration everybody is always playing the same kind of music (voices & natural instruments) for to demonstrate the overwhelming skills of this speaker.
But thats not all.
They NEVER play any other music, for the speakers just fail...
It's that easy... 🤷
Truth is a very simple thing....
Well, I thought that a speaker is for the production of sound. If I want to spend €2500 on a nice finished enclosure….
how do they compare to the Buchardt S400s
The original LS 3/5a were REALLY fragile. Much like Harbeth, Kef etc. They used high ESR electrolytic caps. The new likely use some kind of film cap for a more neutral and open sound. Each time I have re-capped this era speaker, they benefit from better caps that a non-audiophile can hear. It's all about low ESR signal coupling. The modern drivers are far superior (more light and rigid with more robust VC) than the original. At $2900, there are (I'll say it) better speakers new and used. If they are $1500, they'd be head of the class. That being said, I still can't deal with opera. Her screaming sounds like she's getting a BBC staff member.
I agree about the driver tech being superior and the benefits that stem from simple cap upgrades. I hear what you're saying about the price, but I don't fall completely in line with that because the question is: What, for the same price, beats the 40th P3's at their own game? If I had that answer, then I'd be 100% with you. And psh. Opera can be great! Particularly Anna Netbreko.
@@ZeroFidelity I'm just not an opera fan, nor a gangsta rap fan. Don't care much for extreme metal (black metal etc). I recognize the skillsets in each form, but these music formats drill my nerves. Maybe if I became fluent in Italian....
As to better speakers? New and used I have an extensive list. That being said...I'm not going to post a list that will inevitably devolve into a subjective argument. The Harbeth are fine speakers. I enjoyed them at the Bristol, UK Hi-fi show a few years ago. One of the best booths regardless of price.
Carry on.
I totally respect everybody's opinion and enjoyed your review! However, I would like for reviewers to be honest about the price of this speaker which is grossly overpriced. Some reviewers go as far as saying this speaker is a "bargain and good value" and that it performs above its price. How a 12" tall speaker that cost over 5k is a bargain and a good value?
Any one compare these to the new Dynaudio Special Forty ?
It like comparing G-Wagon to 911... what is the point?
Purely on price comparison
@@chrispendergast7792 Special Forty plays very dynamical and sounds just like a good hifi speaker. Bass is fast and rather deep for the box size, mids and treble are very clear but not lifelike. Special Forty uses Esotar Forty tweeter. They play good, but I still was missing something, so I got myself next tier from Dynaudio - Contour 20. They have legendary Esotar2 tweeter, which sounds very very natural and never harsh and you can listen for hours long. Also better bass on contours. I use them for critical listening. I have Harbeth p3 too. I use them when I just want to listen to music after day of work. P3 sounds warmer, mids are to die for, trebles are very spacious. It is basically tube amp in world of speakers. You can listen on very low volumes and still hear everything, but Harbeth can play louder too. Just not crazy loud, but why would someone want to damage their hearing. About dynamics it is not so great, but enough. I would give up my P3 only for their new 40th edition.
@@awdadwadwad1723 Thanks, just listened to the P3ESR with a Primaluna Integrated thought it was a great match no chance to audition the Dynaudio I think ill stick with the Harbeth brand if I want a bigger sound than the P3 !
Have not heard the P3. Though I’m selling my special 40s. Imo the special 40s are too bright. After 4 hours I get ear fatigue.
Their R&D was done almost 50 years ago, so why are they still charging people $2,300 USD a pair?
That's a very fair question! Short answer is: Because these aren't made on an automated assembly line like so many other loudspeakers. The radial drivers are made by Harbeth (and not by somebody else for Harbeth). The veneers are expensive. You're also paying for the time that it takes for Harbeth to assemble each speaker, which includes a double-check quality control process for each and every part. The company also needs to compensate its staff with fair UK wages. Then lastly, there needs to be enough margin built into each product to not only procure enough parts for support and to cover basic operating expenses, but to also make sure that their distributors and dealers can earn enough to justify representing/selling the line. There's quite a bit that goes into bringing products like this to market!
They aren't made in China.
@@edincleve1955 I have no problem with made in China. Automated assembly line is fine for me (I call it efficient!). Buchardt S400 is made in China, have QC, no mark up, goes down deep, fills up the room if you want to. If I pay over 2 grands, the speaker should be easy to drive and can go down lower than 75 Hz.
T A R S, I didn't say you or anyone else should "have a problem" with made in China. The point is the Western nations (as well as Japan, Korea and Taiwan) cannot make products for the same price as China. Practice your reading comprehension. If you went to college, you must be a recent graduate.
@@edincleve1955 I am so sorry if I offended you Ed, I really didn't mean to. I was responding to Sean, not you. What I mean was I don't mind S400 is made in China or rolling out from an automated assembly line. All his points are no longer an issue if I pick Buchardt over Harbeth. I should have clicked the reply button from Sean.
British Broadcast Co is the only BBC I know of... Awkward...
awkward
Yo, there's a piece of styrofoam statically stuck on your woofer.
Mutant Baby The woofer has a mirror finish.
Was there? Oh well! Nothings worse than taking the product out for a photoshoot, only to come home and discover that something you didn't physically see was stuck to the product the entire time. Thus ruining the entire shoot and wasting a whole lot of time! heh
@@ZeroFidelity LOL sorry. False alarm. At 5:40 that's what it looked like to me.
The only speaker sound was his mouth…hi fi alright… 😂
BBC. Subtle haha
I'm not an expert, but it sounds so it's not very good dynamics
Dynamic capability isn't just about raw visceral output. It's also the ability to transmit a lot of energy and to then suddenly stop on a dime, which the P3's do surprising well given their size.
#BBC
BBC
can be a wonderful speaker, but the design looks stuck on 70's.....this brand is for hipster/tree huger people!! lol
ur fucking dumb.
@@awdadwadwad1723 Yes they are for hipster/tree huger people with hearing loss and more money than brains.
So grossly overpriced. I wonder what $600 upgrade gets you of what really is. How do you increase a price tag $600 on a 12 inch tall speakers? What a joke!
No highs, no lows, must be Harbeth. Harbeths are infamous for undynamic sound. JBL 530 is the way to go.
Too bad it was so ugly and no longer available.