Finally a scene that shows how the shot callers who never see combat talk about the enemy like they are dogs, but the men who fight them actually respect the enemy, fear the enemy, and regret killing the human beings called "enemy". This could have been the most powerful scene in the movie
@@johnparry5742 probably cause Westmoreland was in this. if you watch the great netflix mini series on this, shines a bad light on many of these guys. Probably due to having them on this made it get cut.
I was a grunt squad leader in Vietnam with B/1/503 173rd Abn. Bde. from 8/66--8/67 and I can tell you from personal combat experience that the NVA were well trained soldiers that we respected.
My uncle George E.A. Geoghagan was in C/1/503, he was KIA January, 2 1966, in country maybe a week, only 19 years old. I can remember a taxi cab driver delivering the telegram to my grandmother with the news, she screamed and fainted on the porch as my mother went in shock and was screaming in the street, I was a toddler and I remember that day vividly. Thank you for your sacrifice
Just like the Taliban. In 2001 we sent our young soldiers in to fight afghanis who were well into their 40s who fought off the soviets and rival tribes so they had 20+ years of combat experience on our guys.
Sir, your sacrifice may not be valued by all, but it is valued by enough. A mere “thank you” seems insufficient for what you and others gave so freely, but it must be extended. My grandfather was hit in the neck on June 6, 1944, returned home, and passed in 1996 from complications of that very wound. My father went to Vietnam twice, survived, and passed just this last April. Our country asks so much from its soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines, yet we give a pittance in gratitude and less to rehabilitate your mind, body, and spirit. For you, and any other person who served who may be reading this, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart and the depth of my soul.
@@The_yeffy1 20 years? Try thousands of years, collectively. The Afghan people have only one national "pastime" - War. War with foreign invaders, war with each other. It is honestly all those people know how to do, and the reason Afghanistan has always been known as "The invaders graveyard"...
Well not only was it a long movie, but the scene of Hal Moore's boots leaving the ground was so poignant and climatic that the more scenes you put in the more anti climatic the movie becomes.
Didnt want it to get too political which pisses everybody off in present day of how that war was handled. Just wanted to tell the story of the battle and pain and emotion of it. This scene sort takes all that away as ok on to the next fight and then we forget the emotional 2 hours we just watched.
Politics? BS. That wasn't the reason at all. Timithos, the commenter above you, had it right. And, oddly, the remainder of your comment is correct as well.
Timithos is exactly right - including this scene would have been anti-climatic, and would have completely thrown off the pacing of the film's end, (showing Moore returning home). Think it was Mel Gibson who said that about this scene being left out, but it might have been someone else involved with the production, I forget.
I am guessing the slime ball in civilian clothes was McNamara. There is a special place in Hell for Johnson and McNamara but they are still the darlings of the Democrats.
I think this scene should've been included in the movie. It shows the misguided perspective amongst our leadership about the Vietnam war. Kills are not progress when the enemy is willing to keep going to the end. I feel sorry for Colonel Moore here, he lead through a tough battle, and yet here the brass is treating it like a sales pitch.
Keeping the scene makes sense if your movie is aimed at making a statement about the war (like, say, Apocalypse Now or Full Metal Jacket). But WE WERE SOLDIERS is really about Hal Moore, his regiment, and that Battle of the Ia Drang they went through. You risk trying to do too much with a movie, and it dissipates its power. But this is the great thing about DVDs and Blu-Ray - and yeah, TH-cam: You can still get these cut scenes in front of an audience. It's a good scene (and a variation of it happened), but it works better as a stand-alone.
The Taliban war was in full swing when this movie released. This scene couldve been easily translated to the then current state of things. Thats why they deleted it.
Understandable. But perhaps we as Americans need to learn to stop sticking our noses where we can't do any good. We're not a jeep, we're a Cadillac now. And that means we can't go offroading or we'll just wind up sinking our wheels in the mud and sand. Our real power is on the open road. There, we can nock the socks off any jeep. Ya get what I'm saying?
@The last Outcast correct, but remember what happened with the articles of confederation. If the central government is too weak, there will not be any order.
@The last Outcast then we risk becoming the very thing our founding fathers fought to free us from. We need a congress, one free of corruption. The question is how
Joe Galloway has said that as a result of The Ia Drang battle, both sides learned certain things about the other; but that some of those things that were looked upon at the time as being “valuable” lessons -and that both sides would use to determine their main strategy from that point on -turned out to have been highly deceptive. McNamara and Westmoreland filtered what Colonel Moore had told them about The Ia Drang, and in turn, told LBJ only what they felt he needed to know. LBJ was told, based on the casualty ratio at The Ia Drang, that the war was easily winnable, and that it could be done in a very short time frame... and that all they needed to accomplish this, was to put enough Soldiers and Marines into the war to bleed North Vietnam into giving up. Westmoreland was convinced that the North Vietnamese Army was made up of peasants, who used primitive weapons, and who weren’t intelligent enough to win against The US Military. He believed in fighting a war of attrition in Vietnam, and that after North Vietnam’s “peasant army” had suffered enough casualties, they would surrender. LBJ went along with it, followed Westmoreland and McNamara’s advice, and increased the draft numbers to where The US ended up putting over half a million military personnel in-country by 1968... What McNamara and Westmoreland didn’t tell LBJ, was that Col. Moore had told them that a strategy of attrition wouldn’t be one-sided, and that The US would suffer heavy casualties as well. I don’t believe that Col. Moore was trying to talk McNamara and Westmoreland out of fighting the war; rather that he was trying to open their eyes to the reality of the situation, and that what Westmoreland “thought” about the NVA -and who the NVA actually were and what they were capable of, were two very different things.
It's funny because all you have to do is look at the British experience in Malaysia consider Britain Vietnam while the outcome was British and Commonwealth Force's caught on very quickly that simply bleeding the enemy to death wasn't going to work so they developed small unit tactics which ended be very effective Viet Min Force's where beaten back stupidly enough there where British and Australian advisers telling the US how to fight this war because they had already fought this exact same war and won until the bloody French ruined it and the US commanders pretty much ignored every piece of advice given pretty much thought that their tactics sucked and the American way of blowing them up bleeding them and sending troop in with no clear objectives was better.
@@samuel10125 You misunderstood the whole meaning of the scene. The Vietnamese were fighting for their homeland, we were the foreigners attempting to prop up a corrupt regime.
It would be nice to see an extended movie release of "We Were Soldiers..." A Director's cut with added deleted scenes. I'd buy that in a heartbeat. Air Cav! Hooah!
The scene was removed because it actually distrupts the flow of the movie. If you remember how the movie ends, it ends with montage and narration. Anyway, all the points this scene is trying to make is already well established, especially, with Lt. Col. Nguyen Huu An final comments.
@@Trekpanther Exactly! -Also, Mel Gibson's character is not offering any new reflection on his thoughts concerning the enemy. This has been his opinion all along and it was established many times in the film. His speech to the soldiers before deployment summed up his thoughts. We don't need him to re-enforce it. It's already been re-enforced throughout the fight. Sure, the scene is powerful but not powerful enough to add additional benefit from disrupting the pacing.
lonewulf 45 You’ve inspired me to put all of this together on my email signature at work. “Only the dead have seen the end of war. Plato never actually said that, do your research.” Riggs Nielson Customer Support
A soldiers respect for their foe.. spent my friends 50th in Vietnam where he served with the Australian Army. People nice and moved on. Look at Vietnam now - its what the US wanted it to be - could have got there without 30 years of war had the French kept and promised them their independence after WW2 .
Without 30 years of vicious & needless war & without the loss of over 60,000 fine young Americans & millions of Vietnamese & others & much more. All avoidable.....
No, the north Vietnamese got what they deserve good and hard. South Vietnamese also deserves what they got good and hard, they should of fought harder for their freedom. It was a just war for a just cause, secord guessing who's fault it was for losing is idiotic.
Yeah, if you think about it, apart from still being Communist ruled, Vietnam is about what we would expect it to be if we had "won". We have diplomatic relations with Vietnam. We trade with Vietnam. We can visit Vietnam. Makes you wonder if we could have had the same thing without the war.
@@Tommykey07 That is rather interesting they are doing alright despite being "socialist?" I think it is important we learn to let countries be unless they are legit violating human rights,
1) Palestinians don't really exist, as there never was a nation called Palestine and it was never occupied by one tribe or people for centuries. 2) North Vietnam wasn't "home" because they INVADED the other 2/3 of Vietnam: S. Vietnam which had a freely elected govt and had asked for our help in combating Warsaw pact-armed N. Viet dictatorship led by communist puppet Ho Chi Minh.
@@teller121 there was never a north or south Vietnam dumbass. Only Vietnam. So they were home!!! Same for Palestinians, even if there was never a Palestine, they lived on that land for century so it’s there’s. Won’t expect someone who steal a country from the native Americans to understand that anyway dumbass
Powerful scene and truly reflective of what the movie was probably missing in my opinion. Without this humble "we are possibly out of line" approach, it's a great action film once more filmed with an american bias that makes no sense. Kudos to the men who fought on both sides - ultimately doing their duty. As an ex-soldier, I'm qualified to say war makes no sense, you just do it for the guy next to you.
I'd love to see a 20th Anniversary directors cut DVD/Blu-ray edition of this movie next year seeing that it was released in 2002 and a lot of these scenes add emotion and context to the movie as evident by a lot of comments
Damn!!! They should have kept this in the movie!!! It's so accurate and shows that some seasoned commanders could see already where this war would go. Sad that so many brave men had to die before politicians could "see the light"!!! Respect!
Keeping this scene would have wrecked the ending of the film. As much as the scene works, by itself, it didn't fit with the final minutes, from when Hal Moore was shown getting on the last chopper out, to the transition of him returning home...
This should never have been cut from the movie it depicts the complete dedication of the North and their determination to win at all cost and if only the US could have seen that it would have probably saved many American lives by getting out before what was ultimately too late when they did.
@@straitjacket8689, it was the main reason why Johnson didn't seek a second term as the President. He knew that he would be a target if he visited the troops in Vietnam.
@@hirkimerwilberfart2413, I am thankful that I served in the Navy during President Reagan's first term as the President, because, he told the politicians to stand down and to allow us to do our jobs and that we didn't have to obey orders from politicians, because, they are civilians. I was involved in 3 Vietnamese boat people refugee rescues in the South China sea. I do have a lot of respect for those who served in the Vietnam war.
I served aboard the U.S.S. Ranger CV-61 in 1982 on a West Pac/Indian ocean cruise when the destroyer, the U.S.S. Downs got all their bridge windows shot out by the Vietnamese Navy in the South China sea with safety flairs. That's how close the Ranger was almost sent back to Vietnam. The admiral aboard the Ranger gave the order for the Ranger to go ahead towards the Arabian sea and the Persian Gulf. The U.S.S. Downs was part of the Ranger's task force.
i like the part he say about be proud and fell warm the color the red and yellow star flag of our country :) he mean that if he dead meaning he have give his life/blood for the country (= red color on the flag = blood of the people that give up they life for our country and warm from the yellow star = yellow = sun - warm , star = bright :) )
Yeah but a communist and a much bigger war criminal for his part on his own than can ever accuse US of, its nothing commendable, just their disparity and humiliation under the French colonizers make it easier to manipulate them into seeking restoration of independence and that Marx's scribbles in crayon in earnest will help them do that, not to write off the US' biggest screw ups their either...
Shows the huge gap how soldiers and bureaucrats see wars. Bureaucrats see wars through statistics, kill ratios, percentages and numbers. Soldiers see it face to face. Col. Moore saw how they literally threw everything and killed so many yet the Vietnamese kept coming after them. He saw the measure of the enemy's resolve to fight and prevail no matter how high the price. Thats why he immediately knew the US was about to make a big mistake.
McNamara was a numbers guy. That's all he understood. This scene is like trying to explain astrophysics to a cat, there was no way he was going to walk away knowing what he needed to know
This scene should be included in the movie, these conversations prove why America lost in the Vietnam War. This year is this movie 20th anniversary, I hope I can get the director's cut Blu-ray edition to celebrate this wonderful movie.
Did anyone win that war. The south and the north lost everything. In the end they were trying to save their families...as we would. The good men we lost.....
@@evamoore2297 they won and they gained their freedom and recognition for their victory in kicking American butt do some research before talking they wanted to die and free their country.
@@thephantom1021 nobody won that war was my point. As in Korea.... they were wars that dragged on and too much was lost, the other didn't discredit the other...they both fought dirty and both had thier points. It was their country. That was just a fact.
TLDR: This is when a paper general refuses to see the truth of the modern battlefield and it takes the words of a field commander to bring them down a peg.
Colonel Moore should be wearing the CIB with a star, second award. He received his first during Korea. A minor detail not meant to downplay the outstanding nature of this scene. I served two tours with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Vietnam and I understand full well the nature of the misguided leadership at the highest levels in Vietnam and Washington. The best leadership I have ever experienced was in the 173rd in Vietnam. I learned so much from my experiences in Vietnam, both good and bad. Hal Moore was the epitome of extraordinary, courageous and people focused leadership. LTC George Fisher commanded the 3rd Battalion 503rd Infantry in 1968 and was an exceptional leader who loved his soldiers and taught me daily what leadership meant. He was like Hal Moore, he was devoted to his soldiers and would do anything for them. I was privileged to serve him and his men as the Artillery Liaison Officer so I was with him everywhere he went and observed a great leader in action. He taught me and everyone how to lead soldiers. In 21 years I never met anyone like him. Men like Hal Moore and George Fisher are few and far between.
That is one hell of a powerful scene, stating the undeniable fact: the Vietnamese were fighting on the very ground that was (IS!!) their home!! Fighting for your home, makes any army invincible until (their) victory is won. QED.
Then Germans should have won in 1945, they did not. Home ground advantage is big, but not insurmountable. Had USA been a dictatorship, or had Public been behind the war, USA would have won.
that is your opinion! the war was funded by china and russia materials. what is lacking in quantity in veitnam today?????chinese and russia material and men. Same thing goes for S Korea, Afganistan and Iraq not many apartments being rented in either of those places by those russian people, get a better education if your going to open broadcast sir!
@@thehardcorenoobs1234you dont learn any faster ...not a thing wrong with that comment. show me an AK factory, rocket propelled grenade made in Iraq or Afgan!!!!! ALL imports.... forgot Syria too!!! get a better education people!
@@thehardcorenoobs1234 I think he was just adding some information that helped sum up the vietnam war even further. calm down bro...Though I do agree that he rambled a lot though in the summary
I have always loved this scene and thought it should have never been dropped from the final cut. It encapsulates the whole problem with the war in less than 3 minutes.
Great scene in a war movie 🎥 of what our troops went through in Vietnam thank you Mel and thanks to all American soldiers who were there some came home alive and some in coffins God bless you all
I remember this being in the book. What I do remember is Col. Moore, having been told that no force would be sent around to the west of the Chu Pong in order to cut off the NVA retreat (and complete its destruction) because that would put that force into Laos in violation of the deal Kennedy made with the Laotians and Pathet Lao, realized we would not win because we had created a sanctuary and supply area for the enemy we were trying to defeat.
The nature of war has changed due to the media, and the nuclear bomb. Multi-power wars, that draw in many patrons of client states, like WW1 and WW2 are no longer feasible, nuclear weapons would make them suicidal. So wars need to be very contained, or fought through clients (North Vietnam was a client of Russia/China). This, the OP said, allowed for patrons to supply, equip and offer refuge to a guerilla force. In addition to that, Vietnam was the first real war where media technology had allowed Cameras nearly everywhere. Cameras were in WW2 and Korea, but they were bulky, grainy and difficult to use. Cameras in the Vietnam era had progressed to the point where they were shoulder slung and very reliable. This, for potentially the first time in history, allowed the public to see exactly what war does. It's why we kept the fighting to unkown villages and invited ambushes (So we could mass kill known soldiers). Because every picture of a kid or woman running and dying was a death blow to the political will to be there. That's why we won nearly every engagement in Vietnam. We lost 60k, they lost millions. Even the famous "Tet Offensive" was a massive loss for the North Vietnamese (Contrary to pop knowledge, we never actually lost the embassy, just the outer grounds). However, because of the way it LOOKED, due to the prevelance of cameras? What was a victory, looked like a defeat--because all people saw were dead American soldiers in our embassy (Our place of "power"). With no nuance, or context, war images can be spun whichever way the political wind blows. And the war was never popular (With good reason.) If you go to war, the only way to win is total war--literally inflict enough losses that there aren't enough men to field an army (Japan and Germany lost 10+% of thier male population, which because of age banding means they lost upwards of 30-40% of their fighting men when you include wounded). In addition, you have to crush infrastructure and social order to make it difficult for women to have children and provide fresh troops--it sounds horrific, but it is how wars used to be "won". When you go in for half measures, you can be drained either through Guerilla fighting or fabian tactics.
gillecroisd 92 then you don't know our people history even if you can do anything you like or invade north Vietnam or laos or Cambodia we Vietnam still keep fighting until you retreat it in our blood for 2or 3000s year since the country start we been in war with other big country that try to invade us , the china success in invade Vietnam for 1000 year during that 1000 year we fight them non stop woman , man vv until they get defeat and after that we fight and defeat the Chinese tons of time who try to invade us , we 3 time defeat the Mongolian at they high ( who invade Europe,arab, and nearly half of the world ) then the Cambodian at they high 14-16 century in the south , we defeat the champa empire then we fight each other ( north vs south king vs emperor vv ) then the france come and we defeat them in 1954 , we defeat the Japanese in 1945 and we defeat the American in 1975 , we defeat the Chinese and Cambodian in 1979 while fighting both of them on both side down south and up north Vietnamese are extremely nationalist same like japan/Russian you can win battle but you cant win a war vs us cause we will keep fighting on
***** keep say shit and bull shit :) I love how American now wan to sell weapon and giving us weapon ( patrol boat ) future maybe plane or navy ship love how American giving us training for free :) look like your govt view are not your view mate
+ the patrol boat are brand news and not some old crappy shit that the phillipines got to buy from you guy poor phillipine been a good boy to the American master but then get shity weapon like the old big fat coast guard ship that get removed radar + weapon and only got 76mm canon + 2 25mm then got to pay you guy for 100s million for it :) poor phillipines should have buy weapon brandnew from korea or other country which they did buy from korea with some real weapon and not a gun boat :) with 100 million they could have buy a fast attack missle ship that can easy sunk the old 4000t gun ship that they buy
@@jasonsanchez6595didn’t see the pacific.. and pearl harbor movie was good, and true as when someone posted more Jon voight scehes n less affleck n josh harnett / Kate beckinsdale😂
I was in the 7th air cav. 3rd battaltion.I thought the scene when mel gibson tells the sec of defense about the vietnamese being already being home. well, its the truth. they had plenty of time to invite us and let the politics control the war. anyway, I tjhought the movies was close to real.
I remember the start of desert storm. My wing commander asked me if i was ready for war. Sir yes sir! But this time take the leash off the dogs and let us completely and utterly destroy our enemy.
Key point that the Vietnamese were willing to absorb large losses to inflict small losses on the Americans, but they knew we would grow weary first. They were already home.
The communists didn’t defeat the Americans. They defeated south Vietnam years after Americans troops had left south Vietnam and by then the war was gotten really unpopular. When Americans were in the fight they absolutely dominated the enemy.
-----> "Key point that the Vietnamese were willing to absorb large losses..." Correction! The "North Vietnamese", not the "Vietnamese". Vietnam War was first and foremost a horrible civil war between North Vietnam and South Vietnam. Many South Vietnamese lost their lives in that war to the Northern invaders. Battle of La Grange took place in 1964 and was the first serious engagement between USA led international forces aiding the South, and the North Vietnamese regulars. But the civil war between the North and the South started in 1956. The North was brutal, even to the point of genocidal, to any Vietnamese who didn't side with them. How they enslaved the people of the south and placed many of them in prison camps after the fall of Saigon 1975 was barbaric.
If anyone seeing this clip has not seen the documentary "The Fog Of War," do so. It is an extended conversation with McNamara when he was still alive. He was a complete asshole when he was Defense Secretary.
No, he was. Did you see the documentary?.... After all the deaths, americans and viet... what he said? " we were wrong" in the the same tone you use when you pick the wrong paint colour...... Hell has a special place for people like him.
@@calito44 And he only grudgingly admitted that... But I have to point out that at the end of the day Johnson and Nixon were the ultimate authorities. The wanted what they got
They should've left that scene in.. . it indicative of heartless and brainless govt. bureaucrats and politicians who've never seem to think war experience matters. They're only aware not to send their love ones.
Moore's actual description... "peasant soldiers [of North Vietnam] had withstood the terrible high-tech fire storm delivered against them by a superpower and had at least fought the Americans to a draw. By their yardstick, a draw against such a powerful opponent was the equivalent of a victory." As a teenager in the 1980's, I missed a golden opportunity. I grew up on a small family farm in Southwest Georgia. To make ends meet, my Dad leased his land to out of town hunters. One particular group organized by a wealthy banker from North Alabama visited often to hunt quail. My Dad often put me to work helping these hunters clean and dress the game they had bagged at the end of each hunt...which I hated doing... because they often tried to tip me for my effort, but my Dad wouldn't let them. ANYWAY, I remember one particular man in that group was addressed as "General Moore" by his hunting friends. My Dad told me later that this "General" had fought in Vietnam. Being young and only caring about sports and girls, I never paid much attention to the chats these old timers had under my Dad's barn at the end of their hunting day...I wish I had. Time jump to my later years as an adult, I saw the movie "We Were Soldiers" with Mel Gibson and realized who that "General Moore" gentleman was I used to clean quail for as a teenager. I had the chance to meet a true American warrior and hero...but my stupidity and anger for being put to work as a youth kept me from it!!!
i actually met and spoke with Lieutenant General Hal Moore when he was visiting Fort Lewis, Washington in the early 1990s. I was a Field Artillery Lieutenant at the time and he said that the Artillery was deadly accurate in that battle, "KEEP UP THE FIRE" which is the motto of the Infantry Battalion I was assigned to at the time.
Years ago I responded truthfully to a sincere question posed by a female co-worker, a psychologist. It was the only time up until then & thereafter that I did not refer to my service in the "Gulf War "(Op. Desert Sheild/Storm/Salute)as the "beach party. I routinely belittled my service by comparing it to S.E.Asia's Vietnam War or the Korean conflict. Even though I was in a forward base camp in support of the U.S.M.C. I-MEF as a SeaBee, thus exposed to close combat conditions, I'd dismiss my participation. However, to her, for hell knows what reason, I slowly answered her question "What was it like?". In a soft, whispered voice of shame with tears in my eyes ', We killed lots of people...". Denied a total victory with our ordered rapid withdrawal while the vaunted Iraqi Republican Gaurd ran from our forces to escape harm we collectively felt our job was undone, that the consequences were to leave things worse. Just this week I viewed a Fox News interview with "experts" stating that Iraq & Afghanistan's wars are similarily now declared unresolved. As they talked a side box view of a disabled veteran continued without audio showing his reaction, his eyes with that sadness of confronting feeling now worse because his war had cost him a lot & many comrades their ALL. I knew that face & that feeling of realization, that hollow abandonment, that realization of bewildering futility. And it came again as I viewed this edited scene above. The actor/director got it right. The studio/media got it as wrong as our elected government. And now sadly those same cohorts of the elites are miscalculating their ability for misadventures to have their desired outcome when forced upon our CONUS by creating agitprop domestic enemies of undesirable, irredeemables. Their disrespect of our C.I..C., our P.O.T.U.S. , their failed coup, their seditious mendacity & deception, their disregard of our constitution, rule of law & common sense will surely lead us to a point of no return. A point that will once again make Gen. W. T. Sherman's "...war is hell..." truism vividly real. A lamentable place for all concerned.
If this scene had been in the movie, I would finally have found the character I'd hate. I did not hate the Vietnamese guys. They fought for what they felt was their land and it was! I did not hate the US soldiers; they fought for wrong reasons yet did their duty. Very brave! I do hate these political nerds in their offices, thinking they got it so right, too proud to give in when they are obviously wrong! Send them to a battle at the point of Broken Arrow, and then we'll see who runs.
The biggest problem of that entire conflict was that they weren’t willing to commit to actually fighting the war. What I mean by that is that in World War II we had a clear-cut directive to fight against the axis powers, and we knew exactly what we were fighting for, and we didn’t have any real restrictions. in the Pacific, as an example, if we captured an island, we kept it. In Vietnam, their target lists were incredibly restrictive and most of the time when you captured territory you’d walk away from it, and the NVA would take it right back. You don’t capture something and then give it back. My dad was in the Air Force in the early 1970s and I asked him one time what he thought about Vietnam in the whole affair and he said that if we are going to fight a war, then fight it to win. He also said that this country hasn’t fought a war to win since 1945 at the end of World War II. He’s 100% correct . I personally feel that this scene should’ve been left in the movie and the echo numerous others here I agree that there should be a directors cut with no scenes deleted. Put everything in and let the movie speak for itself. Honestly, it seems to me that the only thing that Westmoreland and McNamara cared about Was escalating this war, no matter what the cost was. They grossly underestimated the Vietnamese, and as I mentioned before it was like fighting with a foot on your deck, and your hands tied behind your back. How the hell are you supposed to win a war being held back like that?
Because of these men who fought is the reason why I served in the Army. 1996-2010 I thank every man and woman who served in the past, present and future. HOOAH
This sums it up perfectly. The Americans won most of the battles, had a higher kill ratio, controlled most of the sky etc…..so why did the Americans fail to maintain victory for the South? This is why and this is what’s learned from Vietnam. You can’t beat the Yanks on a battle field no one can but if you keep the war continuous they will eventually leave….it’s not their homeland.
This and danger close are the best Vietnam movies I’ve. One on an outnumbered American force winning a battle in la drang valley. The other about an outnumbered Australian force winning a battle in Long tan. Both true stories. I do feel the American movie depicts the Vietnamese in a more human light though.
They should add this, as well as the other deleted scenes on a director's cut re-release. Not just that, but there should be a sequel featuring the other major action of the Battle of Ia Drang - the ambush of Col. McDade's 2nd Battalion of the 7th Calvary Regiment at LZ Albany.
How this scene got cut I’ll NEVER know. This is the EPITOME of the summation, the FINALITY of the throes of ALL of the Vietnam War. I just don’t get it, BUT… I’m certainly no Hollywood director nor was this war portrayed by it. Still a great movie and absolutely up there with the best! 🤘🤩🤘
I actually met General Westmoreland twice and had the opportunity to speak to him both times. It is my belief that he never had this piece of mind to be so gallant with statistics. Washington and Washington alone needed numbers to show progress. This is my most favorite movie, and I am glad we trimmed this unnecessary "we won" part. Mel Gibson is a genius!
This scene ignores what happened right after Col. Moore left the field. The NVA attacked one of the relieving battalions and killed or wounded over half of them. Col. Moore may have won round 1, but the NVA made up for it with round 2.
This scene should be mandatory viewing for every Politic Sciences Student in college, every employee of DOD (Both Mil, & Civ.), and every politician that runs for or holds office ! ! !
In the opening or close, the voice over by Barry Pepper, says that the movie was dedicated to the soldiers who fought on both sides. Not the generals and nor the politicians.
I can see why they did not include this in the movie. BUT, this is the hindsight of history which gave us this clearer perspective of the situation. It's a powerful message which we did not learn in our more recent adventures in other's homelands. This is my favorite scene of the movie.
If they ever do a reboot to this movie, I hope they add this scene - as well as the scene where the members of the cut off platoon are burning their code books.
Some of the deleted scenes are… they’re good, but I can understand why they didn’t make the final cut. To me this scene is the entire point of the movie. Many things that did make the final cut were less meaningful than this. This scene is the whole point.
I agree this needed to be kept. Its the entire payoff of the subplot of the Vietnamese soldier with the glasses who almost bayonets Moore. Without this scene, that whole thing is kind of pointless.
On the other hand the Japanese were just as dedicated and just as eager to give their lives and yet the United States Marine Corps defeated them decisively. Dedication doesn't mean much vs superior firepower IF you are willing to apply it correctly. US Forces in Vietnam fought with one hand tied behind their backs.
Centralized warfare dedicated to total war isn't the same as what happened in Vietnam. The only thing that stopped us from winning was total war with the communists. Should've listened to Patton and the germans while we had the advantage.
Yet it took two nuclear bombs to push the Japanese Emperor to accept the unconditional surrender, the Japanese were ready for a land invasion and intended to militarize the entire population. Japan also had no one left to supply them with weapons and ammunition. The NVA was still receiving supplies from China and the USSR, the supply lines would need to be cut to have the same effect.
My dad was in Vietnam. After 12 or 13 years of service he wouldn't re-enlist for fear they might send him back there...he was right. On that infamous beach the soldiers learned what going on and went right in. His buddies got blown up at bars right after he would leave to go to another. I don't think any soldier will ever forget nam.
0:19 You have the thanks of the whole country. No they didn’t, those boys came home to be spit on, attacked, and degraded, my dad lost at least 8 different jobs because people found out he was a Vietnam Veteran.
So many incredible deleted scenes, at this point, they should release an uncut extended edition. I’d buy it.
TRUE!!
Agreed!
They should have left this one in the final cut.
Id buy that it would be like watching a whole new movie
Obviously a few home truths too many for the American audiences to hear
Finally a scene that shows how the shot callers who never see combat talk about the enemy like they are dogs, but the men who fight them actually respect the enemy, fear the enemy, and regret killing the human beings called "enemy". This could have been the most powerful scene in the movie
I agree. Lack of courage on the part of the moviemakers.
Facts respect the enemy your fighting especially if it’s there home
@@laynmeyer1272 especially if they're brainwashed
@@Thunderchild-gz4gc Don't blame those poor American boys. They were told they were the good guys.
Just like the ending of charlie wilsons war.
Big mistake to remove the scene as it reflects the correct view of the enemy..
Very true
Maybe Politics played hand here; in that it showed how utterly fruitless this war was and that could never be shown to be in public
@@johnparry5742 probably cause Westmoreland was in this. if you watch the great netflix mini series on this, shines a bad light on many of these guys. Probably due to having them on this made it get cut.
necros911 Westmoreland is my cousin. Not close obviously. I wonder what was going through his mind! He made so many mistakes
Agreed
I was a grunt squad leader in Vietnam with B/1/503 173rd Abn. Bde. from 8/66--8/67 and I can tell you from personal combat experience that the NVA were well trained soldiers that we respected.
My uncle George E.A. Geoghagan was in C/1/503, he was KIA January, 2 1966, in country maybe a week, only 19 years old. I can remember a taxi cab driver delivering the telegram to my grandmother with the news, she screamed and fainted on the porch as my mother went in shock and was screaming in the street, I was a toddler and I remember that day vividly. Thank you for your sacrifice
Just like the Taliban. In 2001 we sent our young soldiers in to fight afghanis who were well into their 40s who fought off the soviets and rival tribes so they had 20+ years of combat experience on our guys.
173rd was the most deployed unit through the war in nam I salute you sir thank your for your service.
Sir, your sacrifice may not be valued by all, but it is valued by enough. A mere “thank you” seems insufficient for what you and others gave so freely, but it must be extended. My grandfather was hit in the neck on June 6, 1944, returned home, and passed in 1996 from complications of that very wound. My father went to Vietnam twice, survived, and passed just this last April. Our country asks so much from its soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines, yet we give a pittance in gratitude and less to rehabilitate your mind, body, and spirit. For you, and any other person who served who may be reading this, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart and the depth of my soul.
@@The_yeffy1 20 years?
Try thousands of years, collectively. The Afghan people have only one national "pastime" - War. War with foreign invaders, war with each other. It is honestly all those people know how to do, and the reason Afghanistan has always been known as "The invaders graveyard"...
Why in the world did they delete this scene. It was a very powerful scene and spoke well of the enemy.
Well not only was it a long movie, but the scene of Hal Moore's boots leaving the ground was so poignant and climatic that the more scenes you put in the more anti climatic the movie becomes.
Didnt want it to get too political which pisses everybody off in present day of how that war was handled. Just wanted to tell the story of the battle and pain and emotion of it. This scene sort takes all that away as ok on to the next fight and then we forget the emotional 2 hours we just watched.
Politics? BS. That wasn't the reason at all. Timithos, the commenter above you, had it right. And, oddly, the remainder of your comment is correct as well.
Timithos is exactly right - including this scene would have been anti-climatic, and would have completely thrown off the pacing of the film's end, (showing Moore returning home). Think it was Mel Gibson who said that about this scene being left out, but it might have been someone else involved with the production, I forget.
I am guessing the slime ball in civilian clothes was McNamara. There is a special place in Hell for Johnson and McNamara but they are still the darlings of the Democrats.
I think this scene should've been included in the movie. It shows the misguided perspective amongst our leadership about the Vietnam war. Kills are not progress when the enemy is willing to keep going to the end. I feel sorry for Colonel Moore here, he lead through a tough battle, and yet here the brass is treating it like a sales pitch.
Both sides of soldiers were lied into uncessary war .. So many lives lost
*"Kills are not progress when the enemy is willing to keep going to the end."*
Truer words hath never been spoken.
I completely agree, this would have been a great and necessary addition to the movie.
primeholyassasin20 most of the war movies get done with cooperation with a Pentagon, and they don't want certain agendas to show up
Keeping the scene makes sense if your movie is aimed at making a statement about the war (like, say, Apocalypse Now or Full Metal Jacket). But WE WERE SOLDIERS is really about Hal Moore, his regiment, and that Battle of the Ia Drang they went through. You risk trying to do too much with a movie, and it dissipates its power. But this is the great thing about DVDs and Blu-Ray - and yeah, TH-cam: You can still get these cut scenes in front of an audience. It's a good scene (and a variation of it happened), but it works better as a stand-alone.
The Taliban war was in full swing when this movie released. This scene couldve been easily translated to the then current state of things. Thats why they deleted it.
Understandable. But perhaps we as Americans need to learn to stop sticking our noses where we can't do any good.
We're not a jeep, we're a Cadillac now. And that means we can't go offroading or we'll just wind up sinking our wheels in the mud and sand.
Our real power is on the open road. There, we can nock the socks off any jeep.
Ya get what I'm saying?
@The last Outcast I agree. We require massive reform. But the question is how we do so without completely unending our constitutional republic
@The last Outcast correct, but remember what happened with the articles of confederation. If the central government is too weak, there will not be any order.
@The last Outcast it's the same problem our founders had. Their solution was our constitution
@The last Outcast then we risk becoming the very thing our founding fathers fought to free us from. We need a congress, one free of corruption. The question is how
Joe Galloway has said that as a result of The Ia Drang battle, both sides learned certain things about the other; but that some of those things that were looked upon at the time as being “valuable” lessons -and that both sides would use to determine their main strategy from that point on -turned out to have been highly deceptive. McNamara and Westmoreland filtered what Colonel Moore had told them about The Ia Drang, and in turn, told LBJ only what they felt he needed to know. LBJ was told, based on the casualty ratio at The Ia Drang, that the war was easily winnable, and that it could be done in a very short time frame... and that all they needed to accomplish this, was to put enough Soldiers and Marines into the war to bleed North Vietnam into giving up.
Westmoreland was convinced that the North Vietnamese Army was made up of peasants, who used primitive weapons, and who weren’t intelligent enough to win against The US Military. He believed in fighting a war of attrition in Vietnam, and that after North Vietnam’s “peasant army” had suffered enough casualties, they would surrender.
LBJ went along with it, followed Westmoreland and McNamara’s advice, and increased the draft numbers to where The US ended up putting over half a million military personnel in-country by 1968...
What McNamara and Westmoreland didn’t tell LBJ, was that Col. Moore had told them that a strategy of attrition wouldn’t be one-sided, and that The US would suffer heavy casualties as well.
I don’t believe that Col. Moore was trying to talk McNamara and Westmoreland out of fighting the war; rather that he was trying to open their eyes to the reality of the situation, and that what Westmoreland “thought” about the NVA -and who the NVA actually were and what they were capable of, were two very different things.
So well said. Thank you
Spot on!
After reading the book, I have always used the term NVA. I will always refer to them as PAVN because that's what they were.
It's funny because all you have to do is look at the British experience in Malaysia consider Britain Vietnam while the outcome was British and Commonwealth Force's caught on very quickly that simply bleeding the enemy to death wasn't going to work so they developed small unit tactics which ended be very effective Viet Min Force's where beaten back stupidly enough there where British and Australian advisers telling the US how to fight this war because they had already fought this exact same war and won until the bloody French ruined it and the US commanders pretty much ignored every piece of advice given pretty much thought that their tactics sucked and the American way of blowing them up bleeding them and sending troop in with no clear objectives was better.
@@samuel10125 You misunderstood the whole meaning of the scene. The Vietnamese were fighting for their homeland, we were the foreigners attempting to prop up a corrupt regime.
This scene is vital to explain the war. It’s a shame they cut it out.
The scene was pure fiction.
@@radamson1 But also entirely true.
Plus, the Second Batallion lost half its strength when they were ambushed at LZ Albany a few days later.
155 KIA, 224 WIA.
It would be nice to see an extended movie release of "We Were Soldiers..." A Director's cut with added deleted scenes. I'd buy that in a heartbeat. Air Cav! Hooah!
Air cav
Could not agree more!!! An extended release would be epic. Maybe commemorative with our retreat.
Yeah, I got "The good, the bad and the Ugly", all with the deleted scenes added in. Pretty cool.
My DVD of this film has most of the deleted scenes I've seen on You Tube as a separate feature. It's not new.
As a combat infantryman from Vietnam I think it was a huge mistake taking this scene out of the movie.
Yeah which version??
The scene was removed because it actually distrupts the flow of the movie. If you remember how the movie ends, it ends with montage and narration. Anyway, all the points this scene is trying to make is already well established, especially, with Lt. Col. Nguyen Huu An final comments.
@@jamestavella1398 Agreed, the Lt. Col. Huu scene is a little more profound in this regard and lets the Vietnamese speak for themselves on that point.
@@Trekpanther Exactly! -Also, Mel Gibson's character is not offering any new reflection on his thoughts concerning the enemy. This has been his opinion all along and it was established many times in the film. His speech to the soldiers before deployment summed up his thoughts. We don't need him to re-enforce it. It's already been re-enforced throughout the fight. Sure, the scene is powerful but not powerful enough to add additional benefit from disrupting the pacing.
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." Plato
Only those who have no value have no war
Plato never said this, do your research.
lonewulf 45 You’ve inspired me to put all of this together on my email signature at work. “Only the dead have seen the end of war. Plato never actually said that, do your research.”
Riggs Nielson
Customer Support
"The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive." - Pvt. Joker
@@robertluna3 awesome
Great movie depiction of a violent senseless conflict. This should be widely distributed today and every day.
A soldiers respect for their foe.. spent my friends 50th in Vietnam where he served with the Australian Army. People nice and moved on. Look at Vietnam now - its what the US wanted it to be - could have got there without 30 years of war had the French kept and promised them their independence after WW2 .
Without 30 years of vicious & needless war & without the loss of over 60,000 fine young Americans & millions of Vietnamese & others & much more. All avoidable.....
No, the north Vietnamese got what they deserve good and hard. South Vietnamese also deserves what they got good and hard, they should of fought harder for their freedom.
It was a just war for a just cause, secord guessing who's fault it was for losing is idiotic.
@@fredcollins8919 .But a lot of people made a vast amount of money from this war...
Yeah, if you think about it, apart from still being Communist ruled, Vietnam is about what we would expect it to be if we had "won". We have diplomatic relations with Vietnam. We trade with Vietnam. We can visit Vietnam. Makes you wonder if we could have had the same thing without the war.
@@Tommykey07 That is rather interesting they are doing alright despite being "socialist?" I think it is important we learn to let countries be unless they are legit violating human rights,
they are home dam shivers down the spine
They're shivers of wisdom
We were soldiers once ...and young is a book worth reading.
very well said Colonel Hal Moore.... "they are home"
same reason why Palestineans view Israel as an occupying force.
1) Palestinians don't really exist, as there never was a nation called Palestine and it was never occupied by one tribe or people for centuries. 2) North Vietnam wasn't "home" because they INVADED the other 2/3 of Vietnam: S. Vietnam which had a freely elected govt and had asked for our help in combating Warsaw pact-armed N. Viet dictatorship led by communist puppet Ho Chi Minh.
teller121
Exactly. Good post.
@@teller121 there was never a north or south Vietnam dumbass. Only Vietnam. So they were home!!! Same for Palestinians, even if there was never a Palestine, they lived on that land for century so it’s there’s. Won’t expect someone who steal a country from the native Americans to understand that anyway dumbass
The North is their home. WTF were they doing South? Invading, perhaps?
Powerful scene and truly reflective of what the movie was probably missing in my opinion. Without this humble "we are possibly out of line" approach, it's a great action film once more filmed with an american bias that makes no sense. Kudos to the men who fought on both sides - ultimately doing their duty. As an ex-soldier, I'm qualified to say war makes no sense, you just do it for the guy next to you.
I'd love to see a 20th Anniversary directors cut DVD/Blu-ray edition of this movie next year seeing that it was released in 2002 and a lot of these scenes add emotion and context to the movie as evident by a lot of comments
Damn!!! They should have kept this in the movie!!! It's so accurate and shows that some seasoned commanders could see already where this war would go. Sad that so many brave men had to die before politicians could "see the light"!!! Respect!
Keeping this scene would have wrecked the ending of the film. As much as the scene works, by itself, it didn't fit with the final minutes, from when Hal Moore was shown getting on the last chopper out, to the transition of him returning home...
Yes....they. should. Have kept this. In. The. Movie......but, alas ...it. wound. Up on the cutting. Floor! STILL, IT WAS A GREAT. MOVIE !!
AGREE
This should never have been cut from the movie it depicts the complete dedication of the North and their determination to win at all cost and if only the US could have seen that it would have probably saved many American lives by getting out before what was ultimately too late when they did.
No we werent allowed to fight to win.And Johnson and McNamara knew the were true criminals allowing Americans to die with no intention of winning
@@straitjacket8689, it was the main reason why Johnson didn't seek a second term as the President. He knew that he would be a target if he visited the troops in Vietnam.
@@hirkimerwilberfart2413, I am thankful that I served in the Navy during President Reagan's first term as the President, because, he told the politicians to stand down and to allow us to do our jobs and that we didn't have to obey orders from politicians, because, they are civilians. I was involved in 3 Vietnamese boat people refugee rescues in the South China sea. I do have a lot of respect for those who served in the Vietnam war.
I served aboard the U.S.S. Ranger CV-61 in 1982 on a West Pac/Indian ocean cruise when the destroyer, the U.S.S. Downs got all their bridge windows shot out by the Vietnamese Navy in the South China sea with safety flairs. That's how close the Ranger was almost sent back to Vietnam. The admiral aboard the Ranger gave the order for the Ranger to go ahead towards the Arabian sea and the Persian Gulf. The U.S.S. Downs was part of the Ranger's task force.
And Australian lives and New Zealand and South Korean lives what a wast of good men
Nice to finally know what the dead NVA wrote to his wife
i like the part he say about be proud and fell warm the color the red and yellow star flag of our country :) he mean that if he dead meaning he have give his life/blood for the country (= red color on the flag = blood of the people that give up they life for our country and warm from the yellow star = yellow = sun - warm , star = bright :) )
tc556t.guy b
the human aspect, of war.....we did not see it,then….and it is not being seen, today....ergo nothing has changed....
Men do not change, so they must change their symbols.
He was an officer NVA guy plus Mel's character writes to her at the end, so it was kinda obvious.
This scene shows what politicians know about a dedicated soldier. They know nothing.
WOW. that is a POWERFUL scene. Without falling into a cliche of “enemy dying in a blaze of glory blah”. Thanks for upload
The problem is there is nowhere this scene can fit at the end of the film, without totally throwing off the pacing of the story up to that point.
This scene should've been in the movie. It gives so much context
If only we would take COL Moore’s words to heart, in perpetuity.
Hats off for all our Viet vets and hand salute to all our Iraq and Afgan. vets also
Dude make's the best Movies!
"You can kill 10 of us for everyone of yours, and will still win."
Ho Chi Minh.
Yeah but a communist and a much bigger war criminal for his part on his own than can ever accuse US of, its nothing commendable, just their disparity and humiliation under the French colonizers make it easier to manipulate them into seeking restoration of independence and that Marx's scribbles in crayon
in earnest will help them do that,
not to write off the US' biggest screw ups their either...
Why is this a deleted scene? It would have complemented the end of the movie. Not that it needed any addition, it was an outstanding film!
Great scene, really showed the disconnect between the suits/top-brass and the boots on the ground.
The most honest presentation of the conflict since Col. John Paul Vann. Wow. "We won't em run back home, they are home".
Shows the huge gap how soldiers and bureaucrats see wars.
Bureaucrats see wars through statistics, kill ratios, percentages and numbers.
Soldiers see it face to face.
Col. Moore saw how they literally threw everything and killed so many yet the Vietnamese kept coming after them.
He saw the measure of the enemy's resolve to fight and prevail no matter how high the price. Thats why he immediately knew the US was about to make a big mistake.
Kid Peligro that war in particular had emphasis on kills and ratios. It was McNamara’s theory (a man with no military background).
McNamara was a numbers guy. That's all he understood. This scene is like trying to explain astrophysics to a cat, there was no way he was going to walk away knowing what he needed to know
Wow, this is a helluva scene I wish they'd left in. Adds some nice context to the rest of the movie.
This scene should be included in the movie, these conversations prove why America lost in the Vietnam War.
This year is this movie 20th anniversary, I hope I can get the director's cut Blu-ray edition to celebrate this wonderful movie.
Did anyone win that war. The south and the north lost everything. In the end they were trying to save their families...as we would. The good men we lost.....
@@evamoore2297 they won and they gained their freedom and recognition for their victory in kicking American butt do some research before talking they wanted to die and free their country.
@@thephantom1021 nobody won that war was my point. As in Korea.... they were wars that dragged on and too much was lost, the other didn't discredit the other...they both fought dirty and both had thier points. It was their country. That was just a fact.
@@evamoore2297 oh sorry my apologies i was talking about Vietnam
@@evamoore2297 Good point
TLDR: This is when a paper general refuses to see the truth of the modern battlefield and it takes the words of a field commander to bring them down a peg.
Colonel Moore should be wearing the CIB with a star, second award. He received his first during Korea. A minor detail not meant to downplay the outstanding nature of this scene. I served two tours with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Vietnam and I understand full well the nature of the misguided leadership at the highest levels in Vietnam and Washington. The best leadership I have ever experienced was in the 173rd in Vietnam. I learned so much from my experiences in Vietnam, both good and bad. Hal Moore was the epitome of extraordinary, courageous and people focused leadership. LTC George Fisher commanded the 3rd Battalion 503rd Infantry in 1968 and was an exceptional leader who loved his soldiers and taught me daily what leadership meant. He was like Hal Moore, he was devoted to his soldiers and would do anything for them. I was privileged to serve him and his men as the Artillery Liaison Officer so I was with him everywhere he went and observed a great leader in action. He taught me and everyone how to lead soldiers. In 21 years I never met anyone like him. Men like Hal Moore and George Fisher are few and far between.
We need/want many many more fine tough smart men/leaders like Moore, Fisher, Hackworth & many others NOWADAYS more than ever....
I saw a early showing of this at the new orleans casino in vegas for a bunch of vietnam vets. I will never forget that.
I remember watching this. My older brother had bought the DVD and I remember playing it on his Xbox more than 10 years ago
This scene absolutely nails McNamara; Mr. Numbers!
LBJ wanted the enemy dead numbers inflated to try and gain support from the US citizens.
It was said of him "He knew the cost of everything, but the value of nothing."
@@mike89128 Both him and LBJ.
LBJ had the kill numbers inflated, thinking it would convince the people to support the war.
That is one hell of a powerful scene, stating the undeniable fact: the Vietnamese were fighting on the very ground that was (IS!!) their home!! Fighting for your home, makes any army invincible until (their) victory is won. QED.
Then Germans should have won in 1945, they did not.
Home ground advantage is big, but not insurmountable.
Had USA been a dictatorship, or had Public been behind the war, USA would have won.
The Vietnam War, summed up in 2:51 of your time.
that is your opinion! the war was funded by china and russia materials. what is lacking in quantity in veitnam today?????chinese and russia material and men. Same thing goes for S Korea, Afganistan and Iraq not many apartments being rented in either of those places by those russian people, get a better education if your going to open broadcast sir!
@@willieboy8798 If you are going to tell others to get a better education, I suggest you look at your own comment you posted
@@thehardcorenoobs1234you dont learn any faster ...not a thing wrong with that comment. show me an AK factory, rocket propelled grenade made in Iraq or Afgan!!!!! ALL imports.... forgot Syria too!!! get a better education people!
@@willieboy8798 Keep on rambling about nothing related to what fuzzypeach pointed out in that clip. Congrats on your level of education
@@thehardcorenoobs1234 I think he was just adding some information that helped sum up the vietnam war even further. calm down bro...Though I do agree that he rambled a lot though in the summary
wow.... can't believe they cut that scene.... it makes the most important point in the movie.... as history showed.
I have always loved this scene and thought it should have never been dropped from the final cut. It encapsulates the whole problem with the war in less than 3 minutes.
Great scene in a war movie 🎥 of what our troops went through in Vietnam thank you Mel and thanks to all American soldiers who were there some came home alive and some in coffins God bless you all
I remember this being in the book. What I do remember is Col. Moore, having been told that no force would be sent around to the west of the Chu Pong in order to cut off the NVA retreat (and complete its destruction) because that would put that force into Laos in violation of the deal Kennedy made with the Laotians and Pathet Lao, realized we would not win because we had created a sanctuary and supply area for the enemy we were trying to defeat.
The nature of war has changed due to the media, and the nuclear bomb. Multi-power wars, that draw in many patrons of client states, like WW1 and WW2 are no longer feasible, nuclear weapons would make them suicidal. So wars need to be very contained, or fought through clients (North Vietnam was a client of Russia/China). This, the OP said, allowed for patrons to supply, equip and offer refuge to a guerilla force.
In addition to that, Vietnam was the first real war where media technology had allowed Cameras nearly everywhere. Cameras were in WW2 and Korea, but they were bulky, grainy and difficult to use. Cameras in the Vietnam era had progressed to the point where they were shoulder slung and very reliable. This, for potentially the first time in history, allowed the public to see exactly what war does. It's why we kept the fighting to unkown villages and invited ambushes (So we could mass kill known soldiers). Because every picture of a kid or woman running and dying was a death blow to the political will to be there.
That's why we won nearly every engagement in Vietnam. We lost 60k, they lost millions. Even the famous "Tet Offensive" was a massive loss for the North Vietnamese (Contrary to pop knowledge, we never actually lost the embassy, just the outer grounds). However, because of the way it LOOKED, due to the prevelance of cameras? What was a victory, looked like a defeat--because all people saw were dead American soldiers in our embassy (Our place of "power"). With no nuance, or context, war images can be spun whichever way the political wind blows. And the war was never popular (With good reason.)
If you go to war, the only way to win is total war--literally inflict enough losses that there aren't enough men to field an army (Japan and Germany lost 10+% of thier male population, which because of age banding means they lost upwards of 30-40% of their fighting men when you include wounded). In addition, you have to crush infrastructure and social order to make it difficult for women to have children and provide fresh troops--it sounds horrific, but it is how wars used to be "won". When you go in for half measures, you can be drained either through Guerilla fighting or fabian tactics.
gillecroisd 92 then you don't know our people history even if you can do anything you like or invade north Vietnam or laos or Cambodia we Vietnam still keep fighting until you retreat it in our blood for 2or 3000s year since the country start we been in war with other big country that try to invade us , the china success in invade Vietnam for 1000 year during that 1000 year we fight them non stop woman , man vv until they get defeat and after that we fight and defeat the Chinese tons of time who try to invade us , we 3 time defeat the Mongolian at they high ( who invade Europe,arab, and nearly half of the world ) then the Cambodian at they high 14-16 century in the south , we defeat the champa empire then we fight each other ( north vs south king vs emperor vv ) then the france come and we defeat them in 1954 , we defeat the Japanese in 1945 and we defeat the American in 1975 , we defeat the Chinese and Cambodian in 1979 while fighting both of them on both side down south and up north Vietnamese are extremely nationalist same like japan/Russian you can win battle but you cant win a war vs us cause we will keep fighting on
***** keep say shit and bull shit :) I love how American now wan to sell weapon and giving us weapon ( patrol boat ) future maybe plane or navy ship love how American giving us training for free :) look like your govt view are not your view mate
+ the patrol boat are brand news and not some old crappy shit that the phillipines got to buy from you guy poor phillipine been a good boy to the American master but then get shity weapon like the old big fat coast guard ship that get removed radar + weapon and only got 76mm canon + 2 25mm then got to pay you guy for 100s million for it :) poor phillipines should have buy weapon brandnew from korea or other country which they did buy from korea with some real weapon and not a gun boat :) with 100 million they could have buy a fast attack missle ship that can easy sunk the old 4000t gun ship that they buy
They lost millions because they did,nt care about dying as much as Americans did,losing 100 men to kill 1 American was worth it for them
This movie , pearl harbor and black hawk are the best war movies for me. Good old times at the beginning of 21 century
Can’t for get the pacific , band of brothers and platoon. Get caught up
@@jasonsanchez6595didn’t see the pacific.. and pearl harbor movie was good, and true as when someone posted more Jon voight scehes n less affleck n josh harnett / Kate beckinsdale😂
This scene has to be put back in the movie. I would imagine that someone in the Defense Department made them cut it out.
This was an EXCELLENT scene and should have been left in the movie as Col. Moore's words proved to be the exact truth.
I was in the 7th air cav. 3rd battaltion.I thought the scene when mel gibson tells the sec of defense about the vietnamese being already being home. well, its the truth. they had plenty of time to invite us and let the politics control the war. anyway, I tjhought the movies was close to real.
Makes me sick how so many lives lost Americans should have never been over there .. My uncle a Vietnam veteran came home and threw away his medal ..
Cody Bennett If Great Britain had joined the Southern States during the US civil war. That is what the Vietnam war was like.
Tony Roberts n
Cody Bennett ob
88nu
When war is declared.... let loose the dogs of war or don't think about declaring war at all. Wimp politicians should be on the front lines of battle!
@ Henry V not Julius Caesar.
@@ElNeo9778 thanks. to my eternal chagrin i did not read much shakespeare.
There was no war declaration by the Congress, rather Congress gave authority to the POTUS to act he saw fit. Same rule still stands today.
I remember the start of desert storm. My wing commander asked me if i was ready for war. Sir yes sir! But this time take the leash off the dogs and let us completely and utterly destroy our enemy.
Well put.
absolutely accurate...Great Movie. A most Honorable visual
Key point that the Vietnamese were willing to absorb large losses to inflict small losses on the Americans, but they knew we would grow weary first. They were already home.
The communists didn’t defeat the Americans. They defeated south Vietnam years after Americans troops had left south Vietnam and by then the war was gotten really unpopular. When Americans were in the fight they absolutely dominated the enemy.
-----> "Key point that the Vietnamese were willing to absorb large losses..."
Correction! The "North Vietnamese", not the "Vietnamese". Vietnam War was first and foremost a horrible civil war between North Vietnam and South Vietnam. Many South Vietnamese lost their lives in that war to the Northern invaders. Battle of La Grange took place in 1964 and was the first serious engagement between USA led international forces aiding the South, and the North Vietnamese regulars. But the civil war between the North and the South started in 1956. The North was brutal, even to the point of genocidal, to any Vietnamese who didn't side with them. How they enslaved the people of the south and placed many of them in prison camps after the fall of Saigon 1975 was barbaric.
Mel you did the job proud
This scene SHOULD have been included!!!
If anyone seeing this clip has not seen the documentary "The Fog Of War," do so. It is an extended conversation with McNamara when he was still alive. He was a complete asshole when he was Defense Secretary.
No He was not - he was considered internationally as the best Secretary of Defense ever
richard gray he was a asshole , it does not mean he suck at secretary it just mean his personality is fk asshole lol
No, he was. Did you see the documentary?.... After all the deaths, americans and viet... what he said? " we were wrong" in the the same tone you use when you pick the wrong paint colour...... Hell has a special place for people like him.
@@calito44 And he only grudgingly admitted that...
But I have to point out that at the end of the day Johnson and Nixon were the ultimate authorities. The wanted what they got
I argue that McNamara is the second worst general the US has ever had. The way he handled Vietnam was a total shit show.
They should've left that scene in.. . it indicative of heartless and brainless govt. bureaucrats and politicians who've never seem to think war experience matters. They're only aware not to send their love ones.
Moore's actual description...
"peasant soldiers [of North Vietnam] had withstood the terrible high-tech fire storm delivered against them by a superpower and had at least fought the Americans to a draw. By their yardstick, a draw against such a powerful opponent was the equivalent of a victory."
As a teenager in the 1980's, I missed a golden opportunity. I grew up on a small family farm in Southwest Georgia. To make ends meet, my Dad leased his land to out of town hunters. One particular group organized by a wealthy banker from North Alabama visited often to hunt quail. My Dad often put me to work helping these hunters clean and dress the game they had bagged at the end of each hunt...which I hated doing... because they often tried to tip me for my effort, but my Dad wouldn't let them. ANYWAY, I remember one particular man in that group was addressed as "General Moore" by his hunting friends. My Dad told me later that this "General" had fought in Vietnam. Being young and only caring about sports and girls, I never paid much attention to the chats these old timers had under my Dad's barn at the end of their hunting day...I wish I had. Time jump to my later years as an adult, I saw the movie "We Were Soldiers" with Mel Gibson and realized who that "General Moore" gentleman was I used to clean quail for as a teenager. I had the chance to meet a true American warrior and hero...but my stupidity and anger for being put to work as a youth kept me from it!!!
Did you know that Moore had a cameo in the film -- in the worship service scene with the wives back at the base chapel?
@@PanhandleFrank no I didn't. I'll have to watch it again and look for him. Thanks
i actually met and spoke with Lieutenant General Hal Moore when he was visiting Fort Lewis, Washington in the early 1990s. I was a Field Artillery Lieutenant at the time and he said that the Artillery was deadly accurate in that battle, "KEEP UP THE FIRE" which is the motto of the Infantry Battalion I was assigned to at the time.
Years ago I responded truthfully to a sincere question posed by a female co-worker, a psychologist. It was the only time up until then & thereafter that I did not refer to my service in the "Gulf War "(Op. Desert Sheild/Storm/Salute)as the "beach party. I routinely belittled my service by comparing it to S.E.Asia's Vietnam War or the Korean conflict. Even though I was in a forward base camp in support of the U.S.M.C. I-MEF as a SeaBee, thus exposed to close combat conditions, I'd dismiss my participation. However, to her, for hell knows what reason, I slowly answered her question "What was it like?". In a soft, whispered voice of shame with tears in my eyes ', We killed lots of people...".
Denied a total victory with our ordered rapid withdrawal while the vaunted Iraqi Republican Gaurd ran from our forces to escape harm we collectively felt our job was undone, that the consequences were to leave things worse. Just this week I viewed a Fox News interview with "experts" stating that Iraq & Afghanistan's wars are similarily now declared unresolved. As they talked a side box view of a disabled veteran continued without audio showing his reaction, his eyes with that sadness of confronting feeling now worse because his war had cost him a lot & many comrades their ALL. I knew that face & that feeling of realization, that hollow abandonment, that realization of bewildering futility. And it came again as I viewed this edited scene above.
The actor/director got it right. The studio/media got it as wrong as our elected government. And now sadly those same cohorts of the elites are miscalculating their ability for misadventures to have their desired outcome when forced upon our CONUS by creating agitprop domestic enemies of undesirable, irredeemables. Their disrespect of our C.I..C., our P.O.T.U.S. , their failed coup, their seditious mendacity & deception, their disregard of our constitution, rule of law & common sense will surely lead us to a point of no return. A point that will once again make Gen. W. T. Sherman's "...war is hell..." truism vividly real. A lamentable place for all concerned.
I've just watched the film again for the first time in a couple of years. It's even better than I remember.
Holy moly... this was an epic scene. Wow.
Not sure why this scene was deleted. It's the truth. Our soldiers fought valiantly but do did the enemy. Politicians just talk and talk and talk . . .
Too political so soon after the conflict. What would the American people have thought if this attitude was expressed so early ?
Damn!! I can’t comprehend why this scene wasn’t used in the movie 🤷🏼♂️
This is a really good scene. I can't believe they didn't use it.
Right at the kickoff of Afghan/ Iraq
@@ethanfriend6305 Makes sense.
If this scene had been in the movie, I would finally have found the character I'd hate.
I did not hate the Vietnamese guys. They fought for what they felt was their land and it was!
I did not hate the US soldiers; they fought for wrong reasons yet did their duty. Very brave!
I do hate these political nerds in their offices, thinking they got it so right, too proud to give in when they are obviously wrong! Send them to a battle at the point of Broken Arrow, and then we'll see who runs.
The rich wage war, while it is the poor who fight and die in it.
Maybe you'd hate the communist soldiers if you knew what they'd done or what they were going to do after we pulled out of the country.
W. L. Orodor Calaerchon amen
The biggest problem of that entire conflict was that they weren’t willing to commit to actually fighting the war. What I mean by that is that in World War II we had a clear-cut directive to fight against the axis powers, and we knew exactly what we were fighting for, and we didn’t have any real restrictions. in the Pacific, as an example, if we captured an island, we kept it. In Vietnam, their target lists were incredibly restrictive and most of the time when you captured territory you’d walk away from it, and the NVA would take it right back. You don’t capture something and then give it back.
My dad was in the Air Force in the early 1970s and I asked him one time what he thought about Vietnam in the whole affair and he said that if we are going to fight a war, then fight it to win. He also said that this country hasn’t fought a war to win since 1945 at the end of World War II. He’s 100% correct .
I personally feel that this scene should’ve been left in the movie and the echo numerous others here I agree that there should be a directors cut with no scenes deleted. Put everything in and let the movie speak for itself. Honestly, it seems to me that the only thing that Westmoreland and McNamara cared about Was escalating this war, no matter what the cost was. They grossly underestimated the Vietnamese, and as I mentioned before it was like fighting with a foot on your deck, and your hands tied behind your back. How the hell are you supposed to win a war being held back like that?
This was the best scene in the whole movie. Too bad it ended up on the cutting room floor.
Because of these men who fought is the reason why I served in the Army. 1996-2010 I thank every man and woman who served in the past, present and future. HOOAH
I feel like this deserves a directors cut with all of these missing scenes in the movie
He's so very right.
Damn, what a set of lines. This should've been in the final film!
I had to come back and watch this on this Aug 15th, 2021 in order to make some sense of it.
Vietnam Vet 1968-69...You knew within days of arriving in country; this was an unwinnable political war.
I didn't.
You are no Vietnam Vet. Who the hell do you think you are fooling.
This sums it up perfectly. The Americans won most of the battles, had a higher kill ratio, controlled most of the sky etc…..so why did the Americans fail to maintain victory for the South? This is why and this is what’s learned from Vietnam. You can’t beat the Yanks on a battle field no one can but if you keep the war continuous they will eventually leave….it’s not their homeland.
This is a good clip even though there aren't any action. Col Moore made a true statement about the Vietcong.
This and danger close are the best Vietnam movies I’ve. One on an outnumbered American force winning a battle in la drang valley. The other about an outnumbered Australian force winning a battle in Long tan. Both true stories. I do feel the American movie depicts the Vietnamese in a more human light though.
They should add this, as well as the other deleted scenes on a director's cut re-release. Not just that, but there should be a sequel featuring the other major action of the Battle of Ia Drang - the ambush of Col. McDade's 2nd Battalion of the 7th Calvary Regiment at LZ Albany.
There has only ever been one war. Everybody lost.
2:46 well said colonel moore, well said!
How this scene got cut I’ll NEVER know.
This is the EPITOME of the summation, the FINALITY of the throes of ALL of the Vietnam War.
I just don’t get it, BUT…
I’m certainly no Hollywood director nor was this war portrayed by it.
Still a great movie and absolutely up there with the best!
🤘🤩🤘
Why was it deleted? This is a brilliant scene
it came out around the time of the war in Afghanistan, and it was seen as a negative influence to that cause
Why in the world was this not in the movie?!! That was such an incredible scene!
I actually met General Westmoreland twice and had the opportunity to speak to him both times. It is my belief that he never had this piece of mind to be so gallant with statistics. Washington and Washington alone needed numbers to show progress. This is my most favorite movie, and I am glad we trimmed this unnecessary "we won" part. Mel Gibson is a genius!
This scene ignores what happened right after Col. Moore left the field. The NVA attacked one of the relieving battalions and killed or wounded over half of them.
Col. Moore may have won round 1, but the NVA made up for it with round 2.
A real soldier versus government good example
This scene should be mandatory viewing for every Politic Sciences Student in college, every employee of DOD (Both Mil, & Civ.), and every politician that runs for or holds office ! ! !
In the opening or close, the voice over by Barry Pepper, says that the movie was dedicated to the soldiers who fought on both sides. Not the generals and nor the politicians.
Barry Pepper played the great Joe Galloway, co-author of We Were Soldiers Once And Young. He's the only living civilian with a bronze star with valor.
Wow! That was powerful. Truth. And right to the point. They are home
Possibly one of the greatest movie scenes of all time and it was deleted and the explanation for it sucks
I can see why they did not include this in the movie. BUT, this is the hindsight of history which gave us this clearer perspective of the situation. It's a powerful message which we did not learn in our more recent adventures in other's homelands. This is my favorite scene of the movie.
If they ever do a reboot to this movie, I hope they add this scene - as well as the scene where the members of the cut off platoon are burning their code books.
I met col Moore when he went to Iraq to check on the new 5/7 cav. Good dude.
I think this should have been in the movie. It's a lesson that needs to be learned.
If Colonel Moore really had this discussion and said this, my respect for him has risen 100 fold, and it was already the utmost respect…
Read his after action report, specifically on his views of the PAVN enemy (NVA). You can find it on the LZ X-ray website.
Some of the deleted scenes are… they’re good, but I can understand why they didn’t make the final cut.
To me this scene is the entire point of the movie. Many things that did make the final cut were less meaningful than this. This scene is the whole point.
... the entire point of the war.....
I agree this needed to be kept. Its the entire payoff of the subplot of the Vietnamese soldier with the glasses who almost bayonets Moore. Without this scene, that whole thing is kind of pointless.
@@KS-xk2so agree. Without this scene, it's just another war movie where the "good guys" win. No reflection. No lessons learned,
Mel Gibson is a raging psychopath, but nobody can question, this dude is an absolutely monstrous talented actor.
On the other hand the Japanese were just as dedicated and just as eager to give their lives and yet the United States Marine Corps defeated them decisively. Dedication doesn't mean much vs superior firepower IF you are willing to apply it correctly. US Forces in Vietnam fought with one hand tied behind their backs.
Centralized warfare dedicated to total war isn't the same as what happened in Vietnam. The only thing that stopped us from winning was total war with the communists. Should've listened to Patton and the germans while we had the advantage.
Yet it took two nuclear bombs to push the Japanese Emperor to accept the unconditional surrender, the Japanese were ready for a land invasion and intended to militarize the entire population. Japan also had no one left to supply them with weapons and ammunition. The NVA was still receiving supplies from China and the USSR, the supply lines would need to be cut to have the same effect.
My dad was in Vietnam. After 12 or 13 years of service he wouldn't re-enlist for fear they might send him back there...he was right. On that infamous beach the soldiers learned what going on and went right in. His buddies got blown up at bars right after he would leave to go to another. I don't think any soldier will ever forget nam.
Gibson is a hero
0:19 You have the thanks of the whole country. No they didn’t, those boys came home to be spit on, attacked, and degraded, my dad lost at least 8 different jobs because people found out he was a Vietnam Veteran.