I am not quite sure whether I will do these any time soon. I mainly did the updated tier lists because I got much more experience playing with these corps than I had a few years ago. But I play 99% of my games online on Steam and therefore don't play with either Colonies or Turmoil that often...
@@marsexpert4276 understandably and same here. I just recently bought them for the actual board game and was intrigued how they would fit :) Great lists regardless though!
One other fun quirk about Manutech is that it can also play Moss and Nitro Moss without needing plants since you can spend the plant Manutech produces from its ability.
@@marsexpert4276 why is that? I thought all parameters for the card must be met before playing it ie. you must have the plants when playing moss as both prod and deduction of plants happens at the same time, so the prod doesnt trigger the manutech effect before the plant must have been paid. If that makes sense lol
@@magmans1287 The only thing you need to have when playing a card is enough capital to pay for its direct cost and the requirement (top left box) fulfilled. All other effects get resolved in the order you want them to. That's why you also can (not in the steam version) place a tile on the southpole on Hellas even if you only have 4 MC. You place the tile, then place the ocean, get at least a 2 MC rebate and then pay the 6MC. This BGG post about the Nitro Moss case has an explanation by Jacob Fryxelius below it: boardgamegeek.com/thread/2009076/manutech-nitrophilic-moss
Nice update on current corps meta with venus introduced! I watched your older video from 2 years ago and couldn't agree with some corp rankings such as PL or ecoline/Tharsis meta. Also nice to hear they adjusted floaters in colonies, hopefully we get it on steam!
I like these lists and they are insightful and helpful, but I have one criticism of it: I feel this tier list emphasize how bad a corp would be if you have no synergy. Viron is bad with no early game good action card, Celestic is unpickable without good floater cards and MSI falls behind without a good Venus combination - but you're not really considering them in those cases anyway. IMO, corps should be ranked according to how good they are when they have a seemingly good synergy with your preludes and cards. The list as it stands have pretty bland jack-of-all-trades corps on top because of this.
I understand why you're feeling like that, but what the tier lists actually factor in are 2 things: 1. How good is the combo / synergy this corp tries to get going? 2. How often are you able to get that combo going (i.e. how many specific cards do you need to get and how rare are those) and how strong/weak is that corp if you don't get that combo going? You might get the perception that I'm only ranking based on factor 2, but that's not the case. The strength of the combo itself (factor 1) is definitely also a consideration. Viron for example can be absolutely bonkers if it gets AI Central - that's a huge factor making this corp strong - but we need to consider that you don't regularly get that card down early on. Celestic on the other hand is quite likely to have a playable floater card in the early game - but that's not that impactful. Many floater cards are shit, even with Celestic helping out.
Manutech is OP why did it need to start with steel production and a building tag, either that or if a production would decrease you have to pay a resource first if possible might balance it out
I think one way to balance it would be that you get a maximum of one resource from your bonus per action. So if you play Mine, you get 1 steel. If you play Acquired Company you get 1 MC (instead of 3). If you play Mohole Area, you get 1 heat (instead of 4).
I'd put Viron in my personal D-Tier. You need good preludes to make up for its poor economic situation AND good action cards and it's often times not coming together for me. Playing Restricted area without a good starting economy can be a trap as you basically put yourself at -4 MC Production. You just won't be able to play all the good cards. Aphrodite is a weird one, similar to Interplanetary Cinematics it's effect does not synergize with the rest of the card. It's missing a little something. I'm interested to know what changes you would make about the card to make it more valid. The upcoming Prelude 2 might give Aphrodite and MSI a little push if it adds preludes that increase Venus. Though im not sure how it's going to play out as the prelude deck is going to be significantly bigger and it might be harder to hit good combos with those corps that benefit/need combos. But that's a whole different topic. Manutech deserves S-Tier for sure. You just want all the productions in your opening hand and preludes. Cartel and Gyropolis can be nuts. I gotta confess, I once played underground detonations with manutech and was hit with heat trappers the turn after. I learned my lesson and have since removed UD from the deck :D. Hitting your third energy production and snatching a good trade out of nowhere is classic manutech. Prelude 2 might somewhat weaken Manutechs start if it adds cards that grant actions and effects instead of productions. I only ever play Celestic as a last resort and only if Titan is in play.
I don't think Viron has an especially poor economic situation. It's starting capital is average, but yeah, it's quite starting hand dependent and therefore could also be placed lower on the list. Aphrodite is such a weird corp - I'm really not sure how to balance it and yeah, I really hope we get some good Venus specific preludes and cards with Prelude 2. The whole expansion needs a buff! Hahahaha UD is just objectively shit... I have had one decent game with it (LP #69), but it was mainly due to other good draws.
I did win a few game with Aphrodite , it not as bad , I would take Aphrodite over thorgate , omni , any day of the week , I think Helion is very bad too but with Colonies and Turmoil , its goes form F tier to like A tier with the correct Colonies
For sure! Thorgate guarantees that you're able to trade in gen 2 for just 16 MC (if you don't get tapped). Depending on what colony tiles are active, that's massive!
@@marsexpert4276 Oh ok i guess I misunderstood your intro. But yeah Colonies and thorgate is probably the biggest corp-expansion interaction in the whole game
There's a lot of corps in there, but that just highlights the fact how balanced the game is for the most part :D Also, these corps are all so dependent on your starting hand that I don't think I could break them up in B+ and B-
Great list! Completely agree with the ratings. If there was a tier between C and F, I would probably put Aphrodite there. I think it's definitely better than Phobo or Thorgate, as it's more flexible. Good starting capital and two useful tags (*cough* NRA). The one plant prod is crap on its own, but if you have a plant prod prelude or a cheap plant prod card, it becomes quite good. So after all this pondering, maaaybe low C tier for me.
It's better than Phobolog for sure and due to its plant tag probably better than Thorgate as well...but if your ability grants you like 6MC on average you deserve F tier in my opinion :D
Viron is deadly , have you never double action predator on someoene ? I got IA central twice with that , believe me its FUCKING GG LOL , but if you get any action with viron its a must take , any draw card action or with some prelude combination of placing a animal fast like fish . For me Viron is super fucking strong top 5 corpo (i rarely had any bad game with it) i think i lose once with it out of like 6-7 games . Manutech is also top 5 corpo in the game , same for Vitor , I think Vitor in a long run you may gain a better win over Manutech but then again i agree Manutech if everything goes right there nothing other player can do , especially in a 1v1 , it drops off in a 4-5 player game. All Venus corpo are very fun except maybe Aphrodite which is ya bad but can be ok in some ways. So my top 5 strongest corpo would be Point Luna , Vitor , Viron , , MSI , Pristar /// Honorable mention to Celestic , Valley Trust , Septum Tribus , // Best troll corpo Mont Assurance , its a nobrainer when we play 5 players game , just for the lulll
Yes, Viron can be absurd in its best case scenario - AI Central or Preds are crazy with this corp, but if you don't get these top tier action cards the corp kinda sucks...there I would not put them anywhere near the top 5, just based on average strength. But we agree on Vitor and Manutech - those are just op :D
very good list!
now we need the Colonies and Turmoil and Promo Corps list expansions for 2024! :)
I am not quite sure whether I will do these any time soon. I mainly did the updated tier lists because I got much more experience playing with these corps than I had a few years ago. But I play 99% of my games online on Steam and therefore don't play with either Colonies or Turmoil that often...
@@marsexpert4276 understandably and same here. I just recently bought them for the actual board game and was intrigued how they would fit :)
Great lists regardless though!
One other fun quirk about Manutech is that it can also play Moss and Nitro Moss without needing plants since you can spend the plant Manutech produces from its ability.
Yes, you can do that (but not in the steam version since they're unable to implement that). It's definitely a fun mechanic!
@@marsexpert4276 why is that? I thought all parameters for the card must be met before playing it ie. you must have the plants when playing moss as both prod and deduction of plants happens at the same time, so the prod doesnt trigger the manutech effect before the plant must have been paid. If that makes sense lol
@@magmans1287 The only thing you need to have when playing a card is enough capital to pay for its direct cost and the requirement (top left box) fulfilled. All other effects get resolved in the order you want them to. That's why you also can (not in the steam version) place a tile on the southpole on Hellas even if you only have 4 MC. You place the tile, then place the ocean, get at least a 2 MC rebate and then pay the 6MC.
This BGG post about the Nitro Moss case has an explanation by Jacob Fryxelius below it: boardgamegeek.com/thread/2009076/manutech-nitrophilic-moss
Nice update on current corps meta with venus introduced! I watched your older video from 2 years ago and couldn't agree with some corp rankings such as PL or ecoline/Tharsis meta. Also nice to hear they adjusted floaters in colonies, hopefully we get it on steam!
Thanks, I appreciate it :)
Yeah, I definitely learned a lot and the whole playerbase got a lot better as well!
colonies feels like venus next balance changes
In some ways that's true...
I like these lists and they are insightful and helpful, but I have one criticism of it:
I feel this tier list emphasize how bad a corp would be if you have no synergy. Viron is bad with no early game good action card, Celestic is unpickable without good floater cards and MSI falls behind without a good Venus combination - but you're not really considering them in those cases anyway. IMO, corps should be ranked according to how good they are when they have a seemingly good synergy with your preludes and cards. The list as it stands have pretty bland jack-of-all-trades corps on top because of this.
I understand why you're feeling like that, but what the tier lists actually factor in are 2 things:
1. How good is the combo / synergy this corp tries to get going?
2. How often are you able to get that combo going (i.e. how many specific cards do you need to get and how rare are those) and how strong/weak is that corp if you don't get that combo going?
You might get the perception that I'm only ranking based on factor 2, but that's not the case. The strength of the combo itself (factor 1) is definitely also a consideration.
Viron for example can be absolutely bonkers if it gets AI Central - that's a huge factor making this corp strong - but we need to consider that you don't regularly get that card down early on.
Celestic on the other hand is quite likely to have a playable floater card in the early game - but that's not that impactful. Many floater cards are shit, even with Celestic helping out.
Manutech is OP why did it need to start with steel production and a building tag, either that or if a production would decrease you have to pay a resource first if possible might balance it out
I think one way to balance it would be that you get a maximum of one resource from your bonus per action. So if you play Mine, you get 1 steel. If you play Acquired Company you get 1 MC (instead of 3). If you play Mohole Area, you get 1 heat (instead of 4).
I'd put Viron in my personal D-Tier. You need good preludes to make up for its poor economic situation AND good action cards and it's often times not coming together for me. Playing Restricted area without a good starting economy can be a trap as you basically put yourself at -4 MC Production. You just won't be able to play all the good cards.
Aphrodite is a weird one, similar to Interplanetary Cinematics it's effect does not synergize with the rest of the card. It's missing a little something. I'm interested to know what changes you would make about the card to make it more valid. The upcoming Prelude 2 might give Aphrodite and MSI a little push if it adds preludes that increase Venus. Though im not sure how it's going to play out as the prelude deck is going to be significantly bigger and it might be harder to hit good combos with those corps that benefit/need combos. But that's a whole different topic.
Manutech deserves S-Tier for sure. You just want all the productions in your opening hand and preludes. Cartel and Gyropolis can be nuts. I gotta confess, I once played underground detonations with manutech and was hit with heat trappers the turn after. I learned my lesson and have since removed UD from the deck :D. Hitting your third energy production and snatching a good trade out of nowhere is classic manutech. Prelude 2 might somewhat weaken Manutechs start if it adds cards that grant actions and effects instead of productions.
I only ever play Celestic as a last resort and only if Titan is in play.
I don't think Viron has an especially poor economic situation. It's starting capital is average, but yeah, it's quite starting hand dependent and therefore could also be placed lower on the list.
Aphrodite is such a weird corp - I'm really not sure how to balance it and yeah, I really hope we get some good Venus specific preludes and cards with Prelude 2. The whole expansion needs a buff!
Hahahaha UD is just objectively shit... I have had one decent game with it (LP #69), but it was mainly due to other good draws.
If someone will ever win with Aphrodite (and I add: society support and underground detonations): lisan al gaib! :D
Hahahahaha
I did win a few game with Aphrodite , it not as bad , I would take Aphrodite over thorgate , omni , any day of the week , I think Helion is very bad too but with Colonies and Turmoil , its goes form F tier to like A tier with the correct Colonies
Do you really not think colonies affects the rating for thorgate?
For sure! Thorgate guarantees that you're able to trade in gen 2 for just 16 MC (if you don't get tapped). Depending on what colony tiles are active, that's massive!
@@marsexpert4276 Oh ok i guess I misunderstood your intro. But yeah Colonies and thorgate is probably the biggest corp-expansion interaction in the whole game
@@marsuniversity-tm Yeah - Colonies and Turmoil don't influence the ratings in this video - for that I wil make a separate tier list at some point.
I think you should break up your be tier XD
There's a lot of corps in there, but that just highlights the fact how balanced the game is for the most part :D
Also, these corps are all so dependent on your starting hand that I don't think I could break them up in B+ and B-
I agree, manutech is top tier and aphrodite is sh*t however, once I was able to beat with aphrodite someone who played with manutech 😅. It was insane.
Nice! Upset wins like that always feel amazing :)
Great list! Completely agree with the ratings.
If there was a tier between C and F, I would probably put Aphrodite there. I think it's definitely better than Phobo or Thorgate, as it's more flexible. Good starting capital and two useful tags (*cough* NRA). The one plant prod is crap on its own, but if you have a plant prod prelude or a cheap plant prod card, it becomes quite good.
So after all this pondering, maaaybe low C tier for me.
It's better than Phobolog for sure and due to its plant tag probably better than Thorgate as well...but if your ability grants you like 6MC on average you deserve F tier in my opinion :D
Viron is deadly , have you never double action predator on someoene ? I got IA central twice with that , believe me its FUCKING GG LOL , but if you get any action with viron its a must take , any draw card action or with some prelude combination of placing a animal fast like fish . For me Viron is super fucking strong top 5 corpo (i rarely had any bad game with it) i think i lose once with it out of like 6-7 games . Manutech is also top 5 corpo in the game , same for Vitor , I think Vitor in a long run you may gain a better win over Manutech but then again i agree Manutech if everything goes right there nothing other player can do , especially in a 1v1 , it drops off in a 4-5 player game. All Venus corpo are very fun except maybe Aphrodite which is ya bad but can be ok in some ways. So my top 5 strongest corpo would be Point Luna , Vitor , Viron , , MSI , Pristar /// Honorable mention to Celestic , Valley Trust , Septum Tribus , // Best troll corpo Mont Assurance , its a nobrainer when we play 5 players game , just for the lulll
Yes, Viron can be absurd in its best case scenario - AI Central or Preds are crazy with this corp, but if you don't get these top tier action cards the corp kinda sucks...there I would not put them anywhere near the top 5, just based on average strength.
But we agree on Vitor and Manutech - those are just op :D