I have purchased a fair amount of these signals from the China manufacture. They might have a little extra paint on some of the parts. But they work great. I'm using IR sensors placed under the layout, I drill out space between the ties and mount the sensors below the rails. I'm also using the old, time tested Chubb system for the logic. It works great.
Dale, thank you for the post. What brand of IR sensors are you using? Chubb system? I'm not familiar with it. Google didn't find it for me. Where would I find that?
@@CobraChamp Bruce Chubb wrote many articles for Model Railroader magazine including ones on operation, signaling, computer/model railroad interfacing, and on his layout the Sunset Valley.
Terrific video Larry, I see that there are similar items available in N-scale too. I find I like the feedback at the beginning a lot, and in fact your comments today explained why I did not hear back from you on a question I asked on an very old video. Of course, I can not remember which video I might have asked something, but I am sure that some of them I will be watching again as I begin the wiring of my layout. Thank you very much.
Nice, Larry. I had thought of that very thing but it is always good to actually see something in place and in operation. Simple is always better! Thanks for another great video.
Another great video. The system you describe is a route signaling system, which was/is primarily seen in the West. The choice of signaling for East Coast railroads is speed signaling. It wouldn't be as easy as the frog powered system, but would be more prototypical for the Southern, ACL, and SAL lines.
What you say is completely true, but I think the system Larry demonstrated is valid for indicating switch settings in yards and (possibly) sidings. I know the PRR used ground signals on some yard ladders to do this and would often use "restricted" to indicate taking the diverging route in interlockings. This system is clearly not appropriate for indicating block occupancy.
Very interesting Larry, I did not realise you could use the dcc circuit to run signals directly. It has also led me to link my ground signals and points on my ECoS which I had not done as both dcc controlled separately.
New to the channel. I just HAD to subscribe. Yes, the obvious is often overlooked. As Deano said, "Ain't that a Kick in the Head"! Thanks the kick, Larry. I'm looking forward to more.
Thank you for all your in depth videos you make thing easy to uderstand. I would be interested in seeing how to incorporate the ground signals, and powering the frog with Caboose Industries 220S or 119R type manual ground throws.
Love it Larry! Unfortunately for me this doesn't work with frog juicers which I have installed everywhere! The main issue is that the signal would only change when the engine is on the turnout (triggering the juicer and thus the signal) which is too late. I didn't know about the automatic switching ground throws from caboose industries. Keep the good ideas coming!
I own a fair amount of the signals that Larry is talking about. The whole thing about signaling a railroad is the logic and knowing the how to input the logic. If you get a chance check out a couple of my you tube video's. (Dale Shipman Trains). I did a couple video's showing the signals in operation. I belonged to a large club (Kansas City Eastern) and we signals part of the layout. Chubb System is what we used. We were very lucky to have at our disposal and individual who has programed several layouts with this system. Old, but true! If you have questions about the system, let me know.
Thanks for the simple idea. I'm just beginning the track design for my layout so I'll keep your ideas in mind. Hopefully I'll figure out how to make it work with Arduinio/servo motors.
Hi Larry, I have purchased signals but I am now building my signals. I use Azatrax signal controllers with infrared sending and receiving units. Your layout must be DC or there is a hidden rectifier in the circuit. One can make one’s own signals for Pennies. Rob
On my On30 layout, currently still in the track laying stage, I follow a narrow gauge copper mining railroad in about 1900-1912. I have a large reference book for a guide.. I have not noticed any signals in any of the photos. The railroad was isolated and ran point to point with wyes at both ends. At each end was also a passenger station. At the bottom of the mountain a standard gauge railroad came up on the other side of a long transfer dock for passengers and goods. So, I don't think signaling will be necessary on that layout. However, I am designing a second layout in N scale. It is designed as a switching layout, no loops, located somewhere in the U.S. that represents switching 30' and 40' billboard reefers among the cold storage warehouses receiving goods for further distribution. It is basically all downtown yard in an L shape shelf style. The time period in 1929-1930. There will only be four engines. Two Ingersoll Rand Boxcabs and two 0-8-0 steam engines (yard goats). The design kind of represents a canyon of warehouses with an industrial boulevard for trucks. Does anybody know of a reference for signal types used in yards in 1929-1930. I chose this time period because of the ICC ban on billboard reefers in 1932.
Hopefully someone will chime in on this. It sounds a bit like Paul Dolkos’ layout set in Baltimore although a few decades later. He has done several articles on it in MR and MR Planning.
The N scale layout might all be within yard limits and not have any signals at all. If it does have signals, I suggest that a good place to look for the types of signals to be used would be a rulebook for the railroad you are modelling. Some of these are available on line. For example prr railfan net documents has the 1925 book of rules for the Pennsylvania Railroad.
Hi Larry. Can you show me how to wire 2 three leg bicolored LEDs back to back with a DPDT toggle so they alternate with the switch? Like red turns to green while the second led, green turns to red. It’s for turnouts. I’m trying to wire from the switch and not the tortoise. When I try this, it seems like this second bicolored LED cancels out the first. I saw the video you have with the red and green LED.s but they were not bicolored LEDs.
Ok, it sounds like you are using a Tortoise to control the points. Now on the 3 leg LED there are 3 legs, 1 for the green, 1 for the red, and 1 that is the common for the other 2. So try this first with just one LED. Connect the green leg to one DCC bus wire (with a 1K ohm resistor) and the red leg to the other bus wire (with a 1K ohm resistor). Now, on your Tortoise connect the common out contact on one of the built-in switches to the common on the LED. Finally, connect the other two Tortoise switch contacts to one each of the DCC power bus wires. Whenever you throw the switch using the Tortoise the LEDS should change. Now you have a 50:50 chance of getting this wired correctly the first time so if the LEDs light up backwards just swap their connections to the power bus. Once you get one working correctly just wire the second LED and you’re done.
Great input for me Larry as I am in the process of my layout planning. Basic doubt - the DCC is basically an AC supply and the LED's work on DC. Can you pls clarify. Many thanks!!
Yes and no. It is a square wave that alternates between the rails-watch my recent video on DCC track power for the complete story. At any rate LEDs can see it as as DC since it has a phase similar to the concept of polarity. That may sound confusing and it is but that’s how it works! With the proper sized resistor, 1000 ohms in this case, the signals work off track power.
Great video Larry! Very timely. I'm using Tortoise switch machines. Do I attach all signal wires to the Tortoise machines or just the neutral wire? If I attach the red and green to the rails which are DCC, would wiring the neutral to the Tortoise machine be an issue?
I would connect the red and green wires to 5he DCC bus using T-tap suitcase connectors as I have shown on previous videos. That way if you need to swap the wires the mot is easily done. I would then connect the black common wire to the feed wire going fro the Tortoise to the frog and that can be done at either end of the wire.
Great 👍.... Just one question ❓ I have 3 toutis machines but I want to hook the atlas old school push button mech.. can I hook them up on the switches the 3 nuts on there ? I don't remember 4 years ago if I did it n blew them.. thanks Larry, always a pleasure, joe
With this simple approach you only have 2 choices so I went with red/green. However you could just as easily use red/yellow. A 2 aspect signal like the DCC Concepts ones are probably more appropriate for yards but they only have two wires and appear to depend on their own electronics to control the LEDs or I would have used them.
Larry nice video All my signals are connected to an NCE Light-IT which send a code to my NCE systems which JMRI can see and on my JMRI Panel the signals change this helps for when using Dispatcher and running trains. The signals automatically change and the trains stop or go depending on the signal
Thanks for your quick reply. I use Peco pl-10 switch machines thrown by NCE Snap-It decoders. Should I connect black wire from signals to the wire which comes connected to the frog? Thanks again for your help and videos
I am not familiar with the PL-10, does it have a SPDT switch in it to connect the Peco turnout frog wire too? If yes then that is where you attach the common wire.
I installed a green LED into the fascia to let me know that there is power running to that section. It is hooked to the bus and works fine. Making things simple is worth the work.
Thank you Larry for another great video. I really enjoy your well explained and easy to follow demonstrations. In the video you showed a signal with a yellow light and hence four wires to start with, but then showed only a red/green combination. How could you hook up the orange wire using this method? This has been timely as I am looking at adding some signals as i build my layout and I am experimenting on a passing loop. This works great for exit signals, but how about entrance ones? Cheers
Thanks! Wonderful stuff. Do you know if these are available as dwarf signals? My yard is pretty tight for rail spacing - - these tall signals might be an interference fit!
Hi Larry, i was curious if you know if these will work the same with N scale Kato Turnouts? Since there is no separate feed to power the frogs, would that wire need to be soldered directly to the frog somehow?
I've got about 8 red/green signals to put on my DC layout still but I'm just not exactly sure where to place them!!?? I don't have a huge layout HO ,it fits in a single garage,so @ 18' deep x 12' 8" width. I only have enough room for two stations on two mains,so @ 66' or so of track and several loop lines,a six track yard, some sidings and dead ends. I'm just not sure where I should place these signals as I'd actually like them to interact with my locos. Cheers from C.Bernath,Maine.
I didn’t talk about it because I didn’t use the yellow LED nor its wire. Given that there are only 2 rails and 2 bus wires to power the LEDs you can only use 2 colors with this very simple system.
Sorry but this is the simple/easy approach. To get yellow would require a special signaling circuit, etc. So with this approach you only have a choice of 2 colors.
@@TheDCCGuy of course, i have a simple 4x8 dbl dogbone layout so nothing fancy is needed and two is better than none i guess...now to decide which color. ha....maybe use red/grn for my mainlines and yell/grn for my sidings.
It should work but I’m not sure it would give you the effect you want since the signals wouldn’t change until the loco hit the frog instead of when you throw the points when using a Tortoise or other device to throw the points that also changed frog polarity.
Thanks, Larry. Love your videos! I use Peco Electro-frog turnouts as they come without any modifications. Will these two aspect signals work with them or do I have to modify them? Thanks
How would you wire in the yellow light. I am using Walthers switch machines with older switches from th 80s so no power to the frog. The switch machines have 2 switches on them I was thinking I could connect the black to one track and the other to the center pole on switch machines with the red and green lights attached to the other point with the signal coming to a switch that will derail it. On the other side I would connect the yellow and green to the other points to show green for straight and yellow for siding.
If I understand you correctly that sounds like it will work. Just use the SPDT switch in the Tortoise to flip phase(polarity) and attach the common to it and wire the green and yellow wires to the DCC power bus. I just showed it attached to the rails so folks could actually see what I was doing.
Great Larry, can we buy these Signals in Britain? Modern North American Signalling is a little different to that used in Britain, there is a great Introduction to Canadian Signalling on a series of Videos by Ian Juby.
I was using a Tortoise switch machine to change the frog polarity so as long as you have a way to change the polarity of a wire then it doesn’t matter whether it is connected to the frog. I explained this at about 12:55 in the video.
Hi Larry : ( 1 ) Is A Dropper-Resistor ( Balue : 1K Ohm ) Off The Main DCC-Buss ( 14-18 VAC ) Sufficient Protection For Extended LED Life ? ( 2 ) You Connected The ( Black ) Common To The Frog As Powered By Totoise / Cobalt ... What About Hex-Frog Juicers ? Ta / John
The Frog Juicer will change the frog phase(polarity) independent of the turnout points being switched. So the LEDs will not change until a loco proceeds through the turnout and of course it will not proceed until the LEDs change-catch 22. So this really only works when used with some manual or motorized point controller which changes frog power.
I have some old Bachmann f7 styled units from the royal gorge train set and it seems the gear boxes are seized. Is there an Easy way to deal with them?
Hi Larry, I’m going to be installing signals on my layout but not sure if I can. I’m using a Digitrak system and servos for turnout control through a ds78. Can you assist me with a diagram or do you have a wiring diagram that you can share.
Yes, you can buy signals with only 2 LEDs but I have not found any that offer red and yellow only red and green. You can also male your own and that way you decide LED colors but finding the parts these days can be difficult now that Oregon Rail Supply kits are no longer available. Somif you want red/yellow you are usually limited to the 3 LED signals.
Wow, there are so many options, both sound a d non-sound. But the basic HO sized decoder format works great no matter which company makes them. You also have to consider the age fi the loco as the newer Athearn models come with a DCC socket.
Larry, I have a question, I know how to control 1 signal with a caboose 119R ground throw, but can you control 2 signals(1 diverging, 1 straight) with the same 119R?
According to Kato, their HO signals are compatible with DC and DCC, but the N scale signals aren't compatible with DCC, why would this be and is there a work around for the N scale signals with DCC?
Sorry but I have no idea how Kato turnouts and signals work, they seem to be off in their own little universe and it makes it difficult to interface anything with them as a result.
Yes, that’s basically what the Tortoise switch machine is doing with the frog feed under the layout. Although, since I only use half the switch contacts it is a single pole double throw switch.
Great Info. Can you please ebay number of the Signals you talked about on the video. Because too many listed. I want to purchase the one you discussed in the video. Thanks
Yes you can use one of the SPDT switches to route the correct polarity to your frog. Connect a feeder from each or your FCC power bus wires to the input contacts on the Tortoise and wire the output contact to the frog. Almost all of mine are powered that way.
I want to run DCC, and have two engines with more to come, but I have a lot of DC engines. I can only run one DC engine at a time, but how can I use something like this with a track that is going to change polarity with the DC engine?
@@TheDCCGuyThrough the 0 channel on the Bachmann controller. I can only run one DC engine at a time with as many DCC engines the amps will allow, so far three engines.
OK, as long as you are using DCC in analog mode then this method should still work. Be aware though that running a loco without a decoder this way for long periods may damage the motor. The high frequency of the DCC waveform can cause the motor windings to heat up and if they get hot enough the insulation will melt and go poof!
That’s the answer. Digitrax has been telling customers for decades to only use analog mode for testing a new locomotive but not to make it a regular practice.
That gets complicated depending on how you are using them and how your prototype used them and the era. Prior to 1985 federal law mandated they be to the right side of the track. I will try to dig up an intro to signals pdf and post it. I also have a reprint by John Armstrong from the June and July 1957 Trains magazine that I refer to a lot.
If you are using a Tortoise to control the points then you can wire the signals just as I showed in the video. I only had the wires connected to the rails to show how it works.
Hey Larry my problem is nothing to do with your video. My problem is with my GP40-2 ,the other day turn on my layout push the accelerate button and then sorted out. That was after I installed a PSXX circuit breaker, very easy hook up. Here's the kicker I set it on the program track and reprogram everything and worked fine ,then put it back on the layout and did the same thing. All rest of the engines work fine any suggestions.
Ben, is it a factory installed decoder or one of yours? Does it do this everywhere on the layout? At any rate check the decoder wiring again just to be sure and also the PSXX setup. Something like this can be a real stumper and then suddenly the answer just pops right out to you.
I would assume the frog wire would become the common when wired to an accessory point motor switch,wired the same way as you would on a mimic board lighting circuit.
Yes, the wire does not need to be attached to the frog, just to any point motor or other mechanism with a switch to change phase(polarity). I will be doing a video on manual methods that allow you to switch point phase(polarity) in the future as soon as I can order the parts I need.
Has anyone here looked for signals lately? NJ International signals seem to be out of stock everywhere. It seems the only track and grade crossing signals are the rather crude looking ones off eBay. Is there a shortage? Has NJ gone out of business?
Yes, I was using Oregon Rail System signals until Dick died. Now his wife hasn’t been able to get anything out in years so I too have had to resort to those eBay signals and hide them in locations where they won’t be so obvious. As the Chinese say may you live in interesting times!
@@TheDCCGuy Okay, thanks for the information! I bought a set of crossing signals off of eBay. They’re 3 times the size of my NJ international crossing signals just up track from my eBay install. The NJ’s are now just static display. Some of The wires got broken when removed from my old layout and I was wanting to place NJ’s at all three of my crossings. I guess I might buy some more EBay 3 month shipping from China signals and see if I can custom scratch something with them.
The ones I got are a bit short and the LEDs are the standard size instead of the smaller ones ORS used. Also the heads are offset on the poles. However if not placed near the ORS ones they look passable, especially in a dark corner.
Yeah, well we're certainly not on the common application list. Cheap Chinese PRR signals isn't a thing either. I think a similar effect can be done on a PRR 7-light signal by wiring the center light to be constantly on. The two vertical lights get attached to one rail, and the two horizontals to the other. But the diagonals (the single yellow on a common three-light signal) isn't part of this method. It would add some complexity, just as setting a prototypical secondary approach signal further back would. This is definitely a very low tech (though excellent) idea for a simplistic imitation of a working signal system at turnouts. Anything prototypical is a step up in complexity for sure.
I use a Signalist SC1 to control the signal, with JMRI setting the aspects based on feedback from the switch machines and block occupancy detectors. This is a LOT more complex than Larry's solution.
@@TheDCCGuy Hmmmm... I left it this morning.It would have my name on it. I hope you don't hink I was accusing. I was only asking a question. I cannot see it on this subject at all now. Is this video displaying all of the comments, because mine only says 38 comments, and there was more than that when I made the post. I also had 2 links to a couple of video clips. Nothing shows me they are there... interesting...
@@TheDCCGuy Could I ask you to contact me, personally? How would we go about doing that? Thanks, Larry... I ALWAYS enjoy your video's!! Best regards; Taz...
As I have said multiple times in the comments this is a simple, quick, easy, cheap method. To get three color signals you will need a full signaling system=expensive, more complicated, not as easy.
It will work as long as you are using some type of point motor or device with contacts that can switch polarity. In this demonstration I was connecting to the frog which receives power from the internal switch in a Tortoise switch machine but an iP Digital would work as well as some others with internal power switches.
Sometimes the bleeding obvious eludes us. Thanks Larry for the enlightenment.
Thanks Larry. Had a simple layout for a while. Still trying to get my head around blocks and signalling. As always you are a great help.👍
Glad to help
I have purchased a fair amount of these signals from the China manufacture. They might have a little extra paint on some of the parts. But they work great. I'm using IR sensors placed under the layout, I drill out space between the ties and mount the sensors below the rails. I'm also using the old, time tested Chubb system for the logic. It works great.
Dale, thank you for the post. What brand of IR sensors are you using? Chubb system? I'm not familiar with it. Google didn't find it for me. Where would I find that?
@@CobraChamp Bruce Chubb wrote many articles for Model Railroader magazine including ones on operation, signaling, computer/model railroad interfacing, and on his layout the Sunset Valley.
Another great lesson Larry, you've opened up some options for me now and the simplicity suits me just fine. Thank you.
Hope one day you can make a video set up the lights underneath the table
Terrific video Larry, I see that there are similar items available in N-scale too.
I find I like the feedback at the beginning a lot, and in fact your comments today explained why I did not hear back from you on a question I asked on an very old video. Of course, I can not remember which video I might have asked something, but I am sure that some of them I will be watching again as I begin the wiring of my layout. Thank you very much.
Nice, Larry. I had thought of that very thing but it is always good to actually see something in place and in operation. Simple is always better! Thanks for another great video.
Another great video. The system you describe is a route signaling system, which was/is primarily seen in the West. The choice of signaling for East Coast railroads is speed signaling. It wouldn't be as easy as the frog powered system, but would be more prototypical for the Southern, ACL, and SAL lines.
What you say is completely true, but I think the system Larry demonstrated is valid for indicating switch settings in yards and (possibly) sidings. I know the PRR used ground signals on some yard ladders to do this and would often use "restricted" to indicate taking the diverging route in interlockings. This system is clearly not appropriate for indicating block occupancy.
Great idea for switches and how they are aligned!
Ha I can’t believe I thought this was so much more complicated. Loving the new intro also. Thank you!
Very interesting Larry, I did not realise you could use the dcc circuit to run signals directly. It has also led me to link my ground signals and points on my ECoS which I had not done as both dcc controlled separately.
New to the channel. I just HAD to subscribe. Yes, the obvious is often overlooked. As Deano said, "Ain't that a Kick in the Head"! Thanks the kick, Larry. I'm looking forward to more.
Thank you for all your in depth videos you make thing easy to uderstand. I would be interested in seeing how to incorporate the ground signals, and powering the frog with Caboose Industries 220S or 119R type manual ground throws.
Great stuff! Looking forward to the manual bit.
Thanks for the hints on comments, too.
Love it Larry! Unfortunately for me this doesn't work with frog juicers which I have installed everywhere!
The main issue is that the signal would only change when the engine is on the turnout (triggering the juicer and thus the signal) which is too late. I didn't know about the automatic switching ground throws from caboose industries.
Keep the good ideas coming!
I own a fair amount of the signals that Larry is talking about. The whole thing about signaling a railroad is the logic and knowing the how to input the logic. If you get a chance check out a couple of my you tube video's. (Dale Shipman Trains). I did a couple video's showing the signals in operation. I belonged to a large club (Kansas City Eastern) and we signals part of the layout. Chubb System is what we used. We were very lucky to have at our disposal and individual who has programed several layouts with this system. Old, but true! If you have questions about the system, let me know.
Thanks Larry for your continued education
Thanks for the simple idea. I'm just beginning the track design for my layout so I'll keep your ideas in mind. Hopefully I'll figure out how to make it work with Arduinio/servo motors.
great video, where does the yellow wire go ?
Hi Larry, I have purchased signals but I am now building my signals. I use Azatrax signal controllers with infrared sending and receiving units. Your layout must be DC or there is a hidden rectifier in the circuit. One can make one’s own signals for Pennies. Rob
On my On30 layout, currently still in the track laying stage, I follow a narrow gauge copper mining railroad in about 1900-1912. I have a large reference book for a guide.. I have not noticed any signals in any of the photos. The railroad was isolated and ran point to point with wyes at both ends. At each end was also a passenger station. At the bottom of the mountain a standard gauge railroad came up on the other side of a long transfer dock for passengers and goods. So, I don't think signaling will be necessary on that layout.
However, I am designing a second layout in N scale. It is designed as a switching layout, no loops, located somewhere in the U.S. that represents switching 30' and 40' billboard reefers among the cold storage warehouses receiving goods for further distribution. It is basically all downtown yard in an L shape shelf style. The time period in 1929-1930. There will only be four engines. Two Ingersoll Rand Boxcabs and two 0-8-0 steam engines (yard goats). The design kind of represents a canyon of warehouses with an industrial boulevard for trucks. Does anybody know of a reference for signal types used in yards in 1929-1930. I chose this time period because of the ICC ban on billboard reefers in 1932.
Hopefully someone will chime in on this. It sounds a bit like Paul Dolkos’ layout set in Baltimore although a few decades later. He has done several articles on it in MR and MR Planning.
The N scale layout might all be within yard limits and not have any signals at all. If it does have signals, I suggest that a good place to look for the types of signals to be used would be a rulebook for the railroad you are modelling. Some of these are available on line. For example prr railfan net documents has the 1925 book of rules for the Pennsylvania Railroad.
Hi Larry. Can you show me how to wire 2 three leg bicolored LEDs back to back with a DPDT toggle so they alternate with the switch? Like red turns to green while the second led, green turns to red. It’s for turnouts. I’m trying to wire from the switch and not the tortoise. When I try this, it seems like this second bicolored LED cancels out the first. I saw the video you have with the red and green LED.s but they were not bicolored LEDs.
Ok, it sounds like you are using a Tortoise to control the points. Now on the 3 leg LED there are 3 legs, 1 for the green, 1 for the red, and 1 that is the common for the other 2. So try this first with just one LED. Connect the green leg to one DCC bus wire (with a 1K ohm resistor) and the red leg to the other bus wire (with a 1K ohm resistor). Now, on your Tortoise connect the common out contact on one of the built-in switches to the common on the LED. Finally, connect the other two Tortoise switch contacts to one each of the DCC power bus wires. Whenever you throw the switch using the Tortoise the LEDS should change. Now you have a 50:50 chance of getting this wired correctly the first time so if the LEDs light up backwards just swap their connections to the power bus. Once you get one working correctly just wire the second LED and you’re done.
Great video, do you need to isolate each light fixture?
Not sure what you mean but these are basically just stand alone setups.
Great input for me Larry as I am in the process of my layout planning. Basic doubt - the DCC is basically an AC supply and the LED's work on DC. Can you pls clarify. Many thanks!!
Yes and no. It is a square wave that alternates between the rails-watch my recent video on DCC track power for the complete story. At any rate LEDs can see it as as DC since it has a phase similar to the concept of polarity. That may sound confusing and it is but that’s how it works! With the proper sized resistor, 1000 ohms in this case, the signals work off track power.
Neat and simple scheme Larry - many thanks.
Great video Larry! Very timely. I'm using Tortoise switch machines. Do I attach all signal wires to the Tortoise machines or just the neutral wire? If I attach the red and green to the rails which are DCC, would wiring the neutral to the Tortoise machine be an issue?
I would connect the red and green wires to 5he DCC bus using T-tap suitcase connectors as I have shown on previous videos. That way if you need to swap the wires the mot is easily done. I would then connect the black common wire to the feed wire going fro the Tortoise to the frog and that can be done at either end of the wire.
Great 👍.... Just one question ❓ I have 3 toutis machines but I want to hook the atlas old school push button mech.. can I hook them up on the switches the 3 nuts on there ? I don't remember 4 years ago if I did it n blew them.. thanks Larry, always a pleasure, joe
Hi Larry. Very interesting. In your demonstration scenario, we didn't see the use of the yellow light - is it not applicable in this situation?
With this simple approach you only have 2 choices so I went with red/green. However you could just as easily use red/yellow. A 2 aspect signal like the DCC Concepts ones are probably more appropriate for yards but they only have two wires and appear to depend on their own electronics to control the LEDs or I would have used them.
Larry nice video All my signals are connected to an NCE Light-IT which send a code to my NCE systems which JMRI can see and on my JMRI Panel the signals change this helps for when using Dispatcher and running trains. The signals automatically change and the trains stop or go depending on the signal
Tom what do you use for a feedback interface?
Also a company named we honest in China nice signals prototype size.
Thanks for your quick reply. I use Peco pl-10 switch machines thrown by NCE Snap-It decoders. Should I connect black wire from signals to the wire which comes connected to the frog? Thanks again for your help and videos
I am not familiar with the PL-10, does it have a SPDT switch in it to connect the Peco turnout frog wire too? If yes then that is where you attach the common wire.
I installed a green LED into the fascia to let me know that there is power running to that section. It is hooked to the bus and works fine. Making things simple is worth the work.
Thank you Larry for another great video. I really enjoy your well explained and easy to follow demonstrations. In the video you showed a signal with a yellow light and hence four wires to start with, but then showed only a red/green combination. How could you hook up the orange wire using this method? This has been timely as I am looking at adding some signals as i build my layout and I am experimenting on a passing loop. This works great for exit signals, but how about entrance ones? Cheers
Friday feedback.
Thanks! Wonderful stuff. Do you know if these are available as dwarf signals? My yard is pretty tight for rail spacing - - these tall signals might be an interference fit!
Check on ebay
Hi Larry, i was curious if you know if these will work the same with N scale Kato Turnouts? Since there is no separate feed to power the frogs, would that wire need to be soldered directly to the frog somehow?
I have never looked at how the Kato’s work.
I've got about 8 red/green signals to put on my DC layout still but I'm just not exactly sure where to place them!!?? I don't have a huge layout HO ,it fits in a single garage,so @ 18' deep x 12' 8" width. I only have enough room for two stations on two mains,so @ 66' or so of track and several loop lines,a six track yard, some sidings and dead ends. I'm just not sure where I should place these signals as I'd actually like them to interact with my locos. Cheers from C.Bernath,Maine.
they should go before your switches in your yard and sidings...especially before your switches off your mainline.
what about the yellow wire??? you didnt mention what you did with it besides it vaguely being in a clothespin in the video.
I didn’t talk about it because I didn’t use the yellow LED nor its wire. Given that there are only 2 rails and 2 bus wires to power the LEDs you can only use 2 colors with this very simple system.
good info but what about the yellow light?..I bought these and they come with 4 wires not 3
Sorry but this is the simple/easy approach. To get yellow would require a special signaling circuit, etc. So with this approach you only have a choice of 2 colors.
@@TheDCCGuy of course, i have a simple 4x8 dbl dogbone layout so nothing fancy is needed and two is better than none i guess...now to decide which color. ha....maybe use red/grn for my mainlines and yell/grn for my sidings.
Could you use a frog juicer that is hooked up?
It should work but I’m not sure it would give you the effect you want since the signals wouldn’t change until the loco hit the frog instead of when you throw the points when using a Tortoise or other device to throw the points that also changed frog polarity.
Thanks, Larry. Love your videos! I use Peco Electro-frog turnouts as they come without any modifications. Will these two aspect signals work with them or do I have to modify them? Thanks
Assuming you use something like DCC Concepts iP Digitals to throw the points and switch polarity(phase) of the frog then yes it will work.
(Slaps self in head) Why didn't I think of this before.
You can use a similar method to signal if a DCC reversing loop is lined up.
Yes I meant to mention that but it slipped through the cracks in my mind during filming.
How would you wire in the yellow light. I am using Walthers switch machines with older switches from th 80s so no power to the frog. The switch machines have 2 switches on them I was thinking I could connect the black to one track and the other to the center pole on switch machines with the red and green lights attached to the other point with the signal coming to a switch that will derail it. On the other side I would connect the yellow and green to the other points to show green for straight and yellow for siding.
If I understand you correctly that sounds like it will work. Just use the SPDT switch in the Tortoise to flip phase(polarity) and attach the common to it and wire the green and yellow wires to the DCC power bus. I just showed it attached to the rails so folks could actually see what I was doing.
Great Larry, can we buy these Signals in Britain? Modern North American Signalling is a little different to that used in Britain, there is a great Introduction to Canadian Signalling on a series of Videos by Ian Juby.
They are from ebay and come from China so give it a search.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry.
Hi Larry, I'm not sure if this question was asked but does this idea work on turnouts with insulated frogs? Thanks
I was using a Tortoise switch machine to change the frog polarity so as long as you have a way to change the polarity of a wire then it doesn’t matter whether it is connected to the frog. I explained this at about 12:55 in the video.
Hi Larry : ( 1 ) Is A Dropper-Resistor ( Balue : 1K Ohm ) Off The Main DCC-Buss ( 14-18 VAC ) Sufficient Protection For Extended LED Life ? ( 2 ) You Connected The ( Black ) Common To The Frog As Powered By Totoise / Cobalt ... What About Hex-Frog Juicers ? Ta / John
The Frog Juicer will change the frog phase(polarity) independent of the turnout points being switched. So the LEDs will not change until a loco proceeds through the turnout and of course it will not proceed until the LEDs change-catch 22. So this really only works when used with some manual or motorized point controller which changes frog power.
@@TheDCCGuy Well shucks! Glad I read the comments !
if you can help me on this im doing dc old school ho layout on turnout can you use a toggle switch to the motor
Yes and the Tortoise instruction sheet has diagrams showing how to wire this plus I did a recent video (#351) showing how.
This great but you also want the signal to turn red after the train passes by the signal how u do that?
Throw the points back the other way. This is a very simple system and not necessarily completely prototypical.
I have some old Bachmann f7 styled units from the royal gorge train set and it seems the gear boxes are seized. Is there an Easy way to deal with them?
Probably old gear lube dried up. Take them apart, clean off old grease and oil, relube, then reassemble.
Hi Larry, I’m going to be installing signals on my layout but not sure if I can. I’m using a Digitrak system and servos for turnout control through a ds78. Can you assist me with a diagram or do you have a wiring diagram that you can share.
So what is the yellow/amber light for? Or can you buy signals with only red and green LED's?
Yes, you can buy signals with only 2 LEDs but I have not found any that offer red and yellow only red and green. You can also male your own and that way you decide LED colors but finding the parts these days can be difficult now that Oregon Rail Supply kits are no longer available. Somif you want red/yellow you are usually limited to the 3 LED signals.
Is there a way to use these with a manual throw such as Caboose Industries 5202 ground throw?
You have to have some way to change polarity just like with powering a frog.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for your quick response! Love your videos, learning a lot!!
Hi sir. What is the best decoader for a f 7 athearn engine. Rick.
Wow, there are so many options, both sound a d non-sound. But the basic HO sized decoder format works great no matter which company makes them. You also have to consider the age fi the loco as the newer Athearn models come with a DCC socket.
Larry, I have a question, I know how to control 1 signal with a caboose 119R ground throw, but can you control 2 signals(1 diverging, 1 straight) with the same 119R?
Assuming you are using LEDs, just connect it to the same switch but reverse the wires which will reverse the polarity.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you
According to Kato, their HO signals are compatible with DC and DCC, but the N scale signals aren't compatible with DCC, why would this be and is there a work around for the N scale signals with DCC?
Sorry but I have no idea how Kato turnouts and signals work, they seem to be off in their own little universe and it makes it difficult to interface anything with them as a result.
Could you provide the link to the China company so I can order them ?
Did you check the description?
I’m model a three head signal and a stager head to light signal n scale
Where do you connect the yellow light wire?
Never mind! I see later reply that you can only connect 2 lights this way. Thanks, anyway.
This a simple red/green signal solution, no provision for yellow.
Could you manually control this signal with a DPDT switch?
Yes, that’s basically what the Tortoise switch machine is doing with the frog feed under the layout. Although, since I only use half the switch contacts it is a single pole double throw switch.
Apologies if I missed it - do you HAVE to have a switch machine? I switch mine manually.
You have to have some way to switch the frog polarity for it to work.
@@TheDCCGuy, ahhh that make sense! Thanks!
keep doing what you are doing!
another interesting video larry, a quick question on the yellow led, where would you use the yellow and where would the wire tie into.
Great Info. Can you please ebay number of the Signals you talked about on the video. Because too many listed. I want to purchase the one you discussed in the video. Thanks
It’s in the DESCRIPTION
So, I don't power my frogs.... can I just use the switch in the Tortoise to do the same thing?
Yes you can use one of the SPDT switches to route the correct polarity to your frog. Connect a feeder from each or your FCC power bus wires to the input contacts on the Tortoise and wire the output contact to the frog. Almost all of mine are powered that way.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry!!
I want to run DCC, and have two engines with more to come, but I have a lot of DC engines. I can only run one DC engine at a time, but how can I use something like this with a track that is going to change polarity with the DC engine?
How are you running your DC loco and DCC?
@@TheDCCGuyThrough the 0 channel on the Bachmann controller.
I can only run one DC engine at a time with as many DCC engines the amps will allow, so far three engines.
OK, as long as you are using DCC in analog mode then this method should still work. Be aware though that running a loco without a decoder this way for long periods may damage the motor. The high frequency of the DCC waveform can cause the motor windings to heat up and if they get hot enough the insulation will melt and go poof!
@@TheDCCGuyI didn't know that. Is there a way around that?
It looks like the only option open is to get good at converting engines to DCC?
That’s the answer. Digitrax has been telling customers for decades to only use analog mode for testing a new locomotive but not to make it a regular practice.
Have ever see the c/mri. For working trains
Yes
I am new to model trains i have a n scale can i do this to dc? And do i need to power the frog? Sorry i am a new be
Yes, there is nothing magic about the way DCC works in different scales.
Your awesome. I'm like a sponge, soaking it all up !!!
Chuck
Another great video thank you 👍
I am confused where to put the signals. Which side of the track should they go?
That gets complicated depending on how you are using them and how your prototype used them and the era. Prior to 1985 federal law mandated they be to the right side of the track. I will try to dig up an intro to signals pdf and post it. I also have a reprint by John Armstrong from the June and July 1957 Trains magazine that I refer to a lot.
I found the article I was looking for so give me an email address where I can send it.
Is the wiring the same for DC?
Are you using a Tortoise or other device to power you frogs and control polarity?
What if you have insulated frogs? How does that work?
If you are using a Tortoise to control the points then you can wire the signals just as I showed in the video. I only had the wires connected to the rails to show how it works.
No tortoise but will be using the walthers machines as I already have some.
What is the Average depth of a single deck ho layout
Well, assuming the average layout is the standard old 4’x8’ and half of that is 2’ then I’d guess 2’.
Might be one of those late comments.. But is this on a DCC or standard DC layout?
DCC
@@TheDCCGuy TYVM
Hey Larry my problem is nothing to do with your video. My problem is with my GP40-2 ,the other day turn on my layout push the accelerate button and then sorted out. That was after I installed a PSXX circuit breaker, very easy hook up. Here's the kicker I set it on the program track and reprogram everything and worked fine ,then put it back on the layout and did the same thing. All rest of the engines work fine any suggestions.
Ben, is it a factory installed decoder or one of yours? Does it do this everywhere on the layout? At any rate check the decoder wiring again just to be sure and also the PSXX setup. Something like this can be a real stumper and then suddenly the answer just pops right out to you.
@@TheDCCGuy yes to both questions
Factory decoder
I did check the wiring in the engine seems to be ok but not to familiar with them
Can you bypass the PSXX and see if the problem persists? That way you can tell if it is the loco or the PSXX.
what happened to the "Yellow" wire ?
You can only use 2 LEDs so you get to pick, red, green, or yellow.
It's easy because u have done it a thousand times
Actually that was the first time I tried this idea. Worked first time out.
OK - How will this work on insulated frogs?
I would assume the frog wire would become the common when wired to an accessory point motor switch,wired the same way as you would on a mimic board lighting circuit.
Yes, the wire does not need to be attached to the frog, just to any point motor or other mechanism with a switch to change phase(polarity). I will be doing a video on manual methods that allow you to switch point phase(polarity) in the future as soon as I can order the parts I need.
Has anyone here looked for signals lately? NJ International signals seem to be out of stock everywhere. It seems the only track and grade crossing signals are the rather crude looking ones off eBay. Is there a shortage? Has NJ gone out of business?
Yes, I was using Oregon Rail System signals until Dick died. Now his wife hasn’t been able to get anything out in years so I too have had to resort to those eBay signals and hide them in locations where they won’t be so obvious. As the Chinese say may you live in interesting times!
@@TheDCCGuy
Okay, thanks for the information! I bought a set of crossing signals off of eBay. They’re 3 times the size of my NJ international crossing signals just up track from my eBay install. The NJ’s are now just static display. Some of The wires got broken when removed from my old layout and I was wanting to place NJ’s at all three of my crossings. I guess I might buy some more EBay 3 month shipping from China signals and see if I can custom scratch something with them.
The ones I got are a bit short and the LEDs are the standard size instead of the smaller ones ORS used. Also the heads are offset on the poles. However if not placed near the ORS ones they look passable, especially in a dark corner.
I ordered me a set of two from Amazon
Awesome 🚂😎👍👍👍👍👍
If only someone would do the same for PRR-style position signals.
Yeah, well we're certainly not on the common application list. Cheap Chinese PRR signals isn't a thing either.
I think a similar effect can be done on a PRR 7-light signal by wiring the center light to be constantly on. The two vertical lights get attached to one rail, and the two horizontals to the other. But the diagonals (the single yellow on a common three-light signal) isn't part of this method. It would add some complexity, just as setting a prototypical secondary approach signal further back would.
This is definitely a very low tech (though excellent) idea for a simplistic imitation of a working signal system at turnouts. Anything prototypical is a step up in complexity for sure.
I use a Signalist SC1 to control the signal, with JMRI setting the aspects based on feedback from the switch machines and block occupancy detectors. This is a LOT more complex than Larry's solution.
I never have managed to wrap my brain around those or the N&W version.
Do you have tips on scenery?
Videos 116, 155, 157, 159
Thank you!
Hi Larry, Why was my post removed? I am NOT trying to sell anything here, trying to help others, and you....
Thanks!
Taz...
Which post? I only remove them when things get personal or out of line.
@@TheDCCGuy Hmmmm... I left it this morning.It would have my name on it. I hope you don't hink I was accusing. I was only asking a question. I cannot see it on this subject at all now. Is this video displaying all of the comments, because mine only says 38 comments, and there was more than that when I made the post. I also had 2 links to a couple of video clips. Nothing shows me they are there... interesting...
@@TheDCCGuy Do you think it was blocked because of the 2 TH-cam links??
@@TheDCCGuy Could I ask you to contact me, personally? How would we go about doing that?
Thanks, Larry... I ALWAYS enjoy your video's!!
Best regards;
Taz...
Yes, they do that all the time and if I don’t remember to check the hold directory they end up in limbo. I’ll see if I can find it.
"ground signals" are called DWARF SIGNALS by railroaders.
I watch you videos which you stay on the topic of how to and make separate for detail info they get confusing the current way your doing ir
Get to the point
Why, I enjoy the chance to chat with my viewers!
How do you get a yellow signal?
As I have said multiple times in the comments this is a simple, quick, easy, cheap method. To get three color signals you will need a full signaling system=expensive, more complicated, not as easy.
Will this also work with an insulfrog or unifrog turnout?
It will work as long as you are using some type of point motor or device with contacts that can switch polarity. In this demonstration I was connecting to the frog which receives power from the internal switch in a Tortoise switch machine but an iP Digital would work as well as some others with internal power switches.