I know I brought a lot of my expectations from the book into the show. If you watched the show without having read the book, I'm really curious as to how you interpreted the ending and the themes!
I have not read the book. In the show it seemed that they were being microdosed w/mushrooms mostly, and at the end when they were upped significantly, any themes on grief and loss turned into a consent issue. It felt meandering and like they couldn’t settle on a theme. The idea that your abuser can be a savior? Yuck. No thanks. I hated the twist of who Michelle was-portraying the jilted lover as psychotic, & that she dressed as a man to shoot Mosha. That felt awful to see, as Hollywood repeatedly shows transgender ppl as the villains & they’re portrayed as odd, ill, “insane”, -the villain. The themes were twisted to make an interesting tv show. It didn’t land well with me, but the acting was wonderful & I loved Melissa McCarthy in this role.
I'm 100% on board you rambling about TV shows / books. Just wanted to say that for the record. I actually learn BETTER when I have examples. So simply having a video about "This is how subplots work" won't be as helpful as, "Here's an entire book to TV adaptation" let's analyze THESE specific subplots and what works/doesn't work. In other words: I don't consider this an "I didn't want to do a video so I just did this video of lesser quality" AT ALL. It's a fantastic video, and like all your videos, I look forward to watching it over and over again. There's always layers and layers of wisdom. Thank you, Michelle!
Yes to more deep dives in movies/tv versus the books! I love looking at how the genres are different but similar and tackling this from a writing craft stand point is fantastic!! More please! I’d love to see your take on: the Haunting of Hill House, Bridgerton, Outlander…so many!
Haha, I'm so sorry my question caused you to rant! 😅 But it was really interesting, and definitely helpful, thank you! 😃 I tend to have a very vague sense of the theme in most of my books, but this makes me more excited to actually look at that and figure it out, so that's a great bonus! I haven't seen the show, nor read the book, but I can definitely see where you're coming from, just based on this 😆
LOL thanks Markus! I'm glad it was helpful (the rant was cathartic haha). Sometimes I have to write an entire draft before I figure out the theme of a book...which isn't really helpful when it comes to subplots. But it does help with revisions, at least! :)
My mind is BLOWN. I've only watched the show so all the book stuff is news to me. Plus, the "Francis wrote everyone's happy ending" went COMPLETELY over my head! All that to say, brilliant video!
Thanks so much Lindsay!! OMG so wait - what was your reaction to the show's ending, not knowing the book's ending?? I think I would've reacted very differently if I hadn't read the book first!
@@MichelleSchustermanAuthor I liked it, but...it was unsatisfactory. I agreed with all of your points. I was just like so the moral is...drugs and scheming...good? LOL Also felt unrealistic that Masha didn't get any jail time???? And Carmel being a therapist made me LOL girl needed HELP
Thanks for another great video, Michelle! I'd be very interested in future videos analyzing movies and/or tv shows in the context of writing craft. :) Hope you feel better soon! (hugs to Rosa!)
Thanks so much for your concise review, Michelle. While I haven't read the book yet, the concept reminded me a little of Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None". While the show was alright, and the format was compelling enough, the insane amount of protagonists and subplots vying for attention made it tricky to get too attached or invested to their dilemmas.
I read something that cleared up the entire subplot thing for me. Basically the subplot character should reflect the plot of the main character. In the end of the subplot, we should see an ending to that character’s arc that the main character could potentially take, positive or negative.
Yes, because a book is really a conversation. At the center of the conversation is whatever question/statement the author is asking/making, which is reflected by the protagonist and his/her main plot. Therefore, each supporting character and thus each subplot is like a talking point in that same conversation. Subplots can show the protagonist and the audience alternative paths or warn them about certain paths better not taken. Point is, plot/subplot need to be on the same wavelength, and that's a lot easier once you become aware of your theme (either in the planning, plotting, outline, drafting, or even revision stage of the process). I know a lot of people hate the word "theme" but theme really is important for clarity and simplicity. Once you know what your story is saying, you can say it in a much more effective and concise way, where nothing, not even a subplot is wasted.
Thanks for the rant and sparing me the misery of watching the show (not that I would have, not wanting to get into series), but WOW, talk about a show missing the boat/point . I actually think it is quite vile and harmful the way the show ending up processing grief, as per your description that seemed spot on to someone who hasn't seen it. :P
This is how I feel for watching Lost. But rather than just "the last episode" it's more like "the last season" because the writers completely, and literally, lost the plot. 🤦 (love the show, love the characters, *loved* where it was going. But *hate* that last season with a passion. It's the main reason I can't rewatch it because, for me, there is no proper ending to any of it.)
Ooooh interesting. I keep trying to take my feelings about the book out of it and look at it as it's own thing, but yeah...the Carmel thing, for example, just felt so strange. All this buildup to the reveal, and then she processes everything after an hour in a tank and...no more rage? The woman literally attempted cold blooded murder TWICE and...all cured? It felt so very unearned. (Also godDAMN dude, congrats on 100k!!! That is INSANE!!! :D)
I watched the show without reading the book (someone suggested it to me as a comp to a book I'm writing) and I was underwhelmed. Funnily enough, I thought it started out strong but then quickly fell apart. I also thought the love triangle (and similarly, the Carmel as the villain plotline) was completely pointless and predictable. I think the most surprising thing I learned from this video is that Jessica and Ben don't end up together in the book (I thought the show was going that way and then it just...didn't?) One thing I am wondering -- in the show, I liked how the daughter called out the parents for convincing themselves that any singular act they did caused their son's death (specifically being a side effect of his asthma medication), but the show still kept giving that idea validity, like as a family they had to love each other "in spite of the mom not realizing" which I thought was such a bad direction (because OBVIOUSLY it wasn't her fault???) is that point clearer in the book? Also, 100% would binge watch a series of these thank u
Thank you so much, Rosalyn! And yes, the book gives so much more nuance to the Marconis (although overall I thought they were handled best in the show...Frances and Tony as well). In the book, they each bear equal guilt, imo - Heather over the label, Napoleon over the alarm, Zoe over the fight. I don't think Zoe was angry at all with her parents when she learned about their guilt and the show definitely did a great job with that. Napoleon and Heather...it's hard to explain, because they are both angry with one another but there's also a lot of processing where they each realize they have to forgive one another and themselves because ultimately it was no one thing that caused Zach to do what he did. And Napoleon does end up in therapy. I definitely didn't get the "in spite of" message in the book.
There is something inherently problematic when tv shows/movies divert from book source material to the point where the message is absolute madness. Never heard of Nine Perfect Strangers but based on what I've seen might just skip the series altogether. Don't really watch much American media these days after discovering Asian media does it better imho. Sweet Home is a Korean horror series about a group of strangers who deal with grief, trauma, loss & suicide. Oh, and also some of those strangers turn into monsters based on their deepest desire. I laughed, cried and took deep retrospect on my own grief, trauma, loss and desires which is not something I do while watch western stuff. I get the rant and vexation, Michelle. If they're gonna divert from the source material, at least make it makes sense. I've become so picky about what I consume either books or tv shows/movies as I always tie it back to what I'm writing or one of my projects. This was an interesting one. Have a great week, Michelle! Hi Rosa :-)
@@MichelleSchustermanAuthor I havent seen it yet but its on my LONG list of things to watch on Netflix lolz. All my Kdrama recs have been great so I cant wait to dive into this one!
Michelle: Amrican adaptation of a non-American work. Gotta add the love triangle and the threads of violenve." Me: *pauses video* I think this is why I am so not wanting to query American literary agents, and why some people find my work "unemotional." I don't write about that kind of violence and that kind of love stuff. Might be a cultural problem.
I've never seen the point of love triangles or any of that. So I'm there with you. (Everything I write turns into platonic relationships and/or found families. Anything more than that may only be hinted as a "yeah, it might have happened. Off screen. A long time ago. But I'm not getting into it")
Honestly, I don't write about that stuff either! I think that applies more to American films/shows than books tbh. If the book doesn't have it, execs seem to want to cram it in.
For the most part I find show/movie adaptations of books to be either be sub-par or enjoyable so long as I've either never read the book, or try and think if it as it's own thing. (Lotr though, I'd say was a great adaptation, even if there were bits from the book I wish they added.) But I gotta say that the one major instance I'd say a show did better than the book, would be Vampire Diaries. Granted, I could only barely force myself to read half of the first book (a series written by, apparently 3 different authors, but under the name LJ Smith, that was first published in 1991) and so far have only watched the first 2 seasons of the 2010 adaptation, but, my goodness is the show immensely better. You don't even have to watch or read very far in either version to see the drastic changes made to, well, everything. (The vampires, though, are still vampires. I'd say that's the one constant. Lol) Anyway, I hope your week goes well, and thank you for the video. Your rant actually helped, as there was a bit there in the video you posted (oddly the Frasier clip) that helped me realise something about part of my own story I've been agonising over for the last few weeks. (Both my brain and my MC have been stuck in a rut and I couldn't figure how to get them out of it because I wasn't sure what they should be feeling/dealing with after this huge catalyst moment) so thank you!
LOTR remains one of my favorite adaptations of all time. (I think that's a pretty universal opinion - they really did the book justice.) That's so interesting about Vampire Diaries! I'm happy to hear you had a little revelation about your WIP - that's awesome! :D
@@MichelleSchustermanAuthor like I said in the chat, I obsessed over LotR so much that I wore out our videos. So yeah, hardcore love for that series. 😂 I recently got the blu-ray set but haven't watched them again, because beyond being a rabbit hole to fall down (because I obsess and study the costumes, revisit old cosplay sites like AlleyCatScratch, decide to invest time into checking out the modern fandoms...its more than just watching a movie for me. I blame my younger self that discovered this massively all-consuming special interest. Lol) I know I'm going to have an LotR brain going and completely forget what style in writing my current series in. (Or end up popping on the soundtrack to write to and have super randomly intense and epic scenes happen because the music inspired them...yep. That's a thing that I discovered can happen. And have since learnt that soundtracks are best left to be listened to when doing anything non-writing related.😅) Anyway, I hope you have a good week. And good luck with your writing.
The Vampire Diaries books were so painful. Another example of an adaptation that improved upon the original is The Magicians. I think it comes down to a lot of the things mentioned in the video, like WHY a change was made and how it contributes to the characters' journeys and the themes of the story. Like in both TVD & the Magicians, the shows changed characters to add depth, motivation, and complexity - think of Katherine in the original TVD or Penny in the Magicians. They both balanced out the main POV with rich ensembles of supporting characters, giving you a much more nuanced understanding, adding layers of empathy and interdependence. They also did a good job of tying in the changes to support powerful overarching themes - like TVD the show is way more than just a one-dimensional love triangle like it is in the book and Julia's story in the Magicians the show is not just like... sexual assault for character development. So it definitely CAN be done, but once you see it done really well I feel like it makes the bad adaptations harder to stomach.
I know I brought a lot of my expectations from the book into the show. If you watched the show without having read the book, I'm really curious as to how you interpreted the ending and the themes!
I haven't read the book yet, but I'm excited to read it to see how it compares to the show! 📖📺
I have not read the book. In the show it seemed that they were being microdosed w/mushrooms mostly, and at the end when they were upped significantly, any themes on grief and loss turned into a consent issue. It felt meandering and like they couldn’t settle on a theme. The idea that your abuser can be a savior? Yuck. No thanks.
I hated the twist of who Michelle was-portraying the jilted lover as psychotic, & that she dressed as a man to shoot Mosha. That felt awful to see, as Hollywood repeatedly shows transgender ppl as the villains & they’re portrayed as odd, ill, “insane”, -the villain.
The themes were twisted to make an interesting tv show. It didn’t land well with me, but the acting was wonderful & I loved Melissa McCarthy in this role.
I would definitely be interested in a video about analyzing movies/tv shows based on specific writing craft elements
Woo! :) Thanks Matty!
I'm 100% on board you rambling about TV shows / books. Just wanted to say that for the record. I actually learn BETTER when I have examples. So simply having a video about "This is how subplots work" won't be as helpful as, "Here's an entire book to TV adaptation" let's analyze THESE specific subplots and what works/doesn't work. In other words: I don't consider this an "I didn't want to do a video so I just did this video of lesser quality" AT ALL. It's a fantastic video, and like all your videos, I look forward to watching it over and over again. There's always layers and layers of wisdom. Thank you, Michelle!
Thanks so much! I'm the same way with examples (plus those videos are more fun to make ;). I really appreciate the kind words, too!!
Michelle your Galadriel jokes were killing me! Great comedic timing and flow. I spit out my coffee twice!
LOL thanks so much, Pasquale! I had a lot of fun with this one! :)
Yes to more deep dives in movies/tv versus the books! I love looking at how the genres are different but similar and tackling this from a writing craft stand point is fantastic!! More please! I’d love to see your take on: the Haunting of Hill House, Bridgerton, Outlander…so many!
Thank you SO much Amy -- those are all such great suggestions, too!!! I'll start a list! :)
Haha, I'm so sorry my question caused you to rant! 😅 But it was really interesting, and definitely helpful, thank you! 😃 I tend to have a very vague sense of the theme in most of my books, but this makes me more excited to actually look at that and figure it out, so that's a great bonus!
I haven't seen the show, nor read the book, but I can definitely see where you're coming from, just based on this 😆
LOL thanks Markus! I'm glad it was helpful (the rant was cathartic haha). Sometimes I have to write an entire draft before I figure out the theme of a book...which isn't really helpful when it comes to subplots. But it does help with revisions, at least! :)
Thank you for saving me the time to watch this show. I also hate when screen writers change the main idea of the original story. °_°
... and: Really? Drugs solve your mental health issues? What the f...?! °_°
My mind is BLOWN. I've only watched the show so all the book stuff is news to me. Plus, the "Francis wrote everyone's happy ending" went COMPLETELY over my head! All that to say, brilliant video!
Thanks so much Lindsay!! OMG so wait - what was your reaction to the show's ending, not knowing the book's ending?? I think I would've reacted very differently if I hadn't read the book first!
@@MichelleSchustermanAuthor I liked it, but...it was unsatisfactory. I agreed with all of your points. I was just like so the moral is...drugs and scheming...good? LOL Also felt unrealistic that Masha didn't get any jail time???? And Carmel being a therapist made me LOL girl needed HELP
@@LindsayPuckett YES EXACTLY ok thank you, I feel validated lol
Thanks for another great video, Michelle! I'd be very interested in future videos analyzing movies and/or tv shows in the context of writing craft. :) Hope you feel better soon! (hugs to Rosa!)
Thank you so much, Sean! And I am feeling a lot better, thank you!
Thanks so much for your concise review, Michelle. While I haven't read the book yet, the concept reminded me a little of Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None". While the show was alright, and the format was compelling enough, the insane amount of protagonists and subplots vying for attention made it tricky to get too attached or invested to their dilemmas.
Thanks Trina! Yeah, it was a lot. I'm bewildered by the decision to minimize Ben and Heather's story and insert that pointless love triangle.
I read something that cleared up the entire subplot thing for me. Basically the subplot character should reflect the plot of the main character. In the end of the subplot, we should see an ending to that character’s arc that the main character could potentially take, positive or negative.
Absolutely!!
Yes, because a book is really a conversation. At the center of the conversation is whatever question/statement the author is asking/making, which is reflected by the protagonist and his/her main plot. Therefore, each supporting character and thus each subplot is like a talking point in that same conversation. Subplots can show the protagonist and the audience alternative paths or warn them about certain paths better not taken. Point is, plot/subplot need to be on the same wavelength, and that's a lot easier once you become aware of your theme (either in the planning, plotting, outline, drafting, or even revision stage of the process). I know a lot of people hate the word "theme" but theme really is important for clarity and simplicity. Once you know what your story is saying, you can say it in a much more effective and concise way, where nothing, not even a subplot is wasted.
Thanks for the rant and sparing me the misery of watching the show (not that I would have, not wanting to get into series), but WOW, talk about a show missing the boat/point . I actually think it is quite vile and harmful the way the show ending up processing grief, as per your description that seemed spot on to someone who hasn't seen it. :P
Same here! I really want to know if anyone who saw the show without having read the book took away a different message.
Yes on analyzing series/movies!
Yay, thanks Amber!!
Fun video! I think I'll give the show a miss. LOL I also suffer with allergy related ear infections. Sending hugs and hearts. Feel better soon!
Thanks so much, Regina! :)
I only watched the show and went in totally blindly. It had good promise at the beginning…then that last episode just ruined the whole show for me.
This is how I feel for watching Lost. But rather than just "the last episode" it's more like "the last season" because the writers completely, and literally, lost the plot. 🤦 (love the show, love the characters, *loved* where it was going. But *hate* that last season with a passion. It's the main reason I can't rewatch it because, for me, there is no proper ending to any of it.)
Ooooh interesting. I keep trying to take my feelings about the book out of it and look at it as it's own thing, but yeah...the Carmel thing, for example, just felt so strange. All this buildup to the reveal, and then she processes everything after an hour in a tank and...no more rage? The woman literally attempted cold blooded murder TWICE and...all cured? It felt so very unearned.
(Also godDAMN dude, congrats on 100k!!! That is INSANE!!! :D)
HA yes! Lost and GOT probably tie for the award of Finale Most Hated By Fans!
Drugs bad! .......I agree with your comment....ever feel that way when writing the End to your story??? 😆
More often than I'd like to admit1 :D
I watched the show without reading the book (someone suggested it to me as a comp to a book I'm writing) and I was underwhelmed. Funnily enough, I thought it started out strong but then quickly fell apart. I also thought the love triangle (and similarly, the Carmel as the villain plotline) was completely pointless and predictable. I think the most surprising thing I learned from this video is that Jessica and Ben don't end up together in the book (I thought the show was going that way and then it just...didn't?) One thing I am wondering -- in the show, I liked how the daughter called out the parents for convincing themselves that any singular act they did caused their son's death (specifically being a side effect of his asthma medication), but the show still kept giving that idea validity, like as a family they had to love each other "in spite of the mom not realizing" which I thought was such a bad direction (because OBVIOUSLY it wasn't her fault???) is that point clearer in the book?
Also, 100% would binge watch a series of these thank u
Thank you so much, Rosalyn! And yes, the book gives so much more nuance to the Marconis (although overall I thought they were handled best in the show...Frances and Tony as well). In the book, they each bear equal guilt, imo - Heather over the label, Napoleon over the alarm, Zoe over the fight. I don't think Zoe was angry at all with her parents when she learned about their guilt and the show definitely did a great job with that. Napoleon and Heather...it's hard to explain, because they are both angry with one another but there's also a lot of processing where they each realize they have to forgive one another and themselves because ultimately it was no one thing that caused Zach to do what he did. And Napoleon does end up in therapy. I definitely didn't get the "in spite of" message in the book.
There is something inherently problematic when tv shows/movies divert from book source material to the point where the message is absolute madness.
Never heard of Nine Perfect Strangers but based on what I've seen might just skip the series altogether. Don't really watch much American media these days after discovering Asian media does it better imho.
Sweet Home is a Korean horror series about a group of strangers who deal with grief, trauma, loss & suicide.
Oh, and also some of those strangers turn into monsters based on their deepest desire.
I laughed, cried and took deep retrospect on my own grief, trauma, loss and desires which is not something I do while watch western stuff.
I get the rant and vexation, Michelle. If they're gonna divert from the source material, at least make it makes sense.
I've become so picky about what I consume either books or tv shows/movies as I always tie it back to what I'm writing or one of my projects.
This was an interesting one. Have a great week, Michelle! Hi Rosa :-)
Ohhhh Korean TV, I have to ask...have you watched a show called Strong Girl Bong Soon??
@@MichelleSchustermanAuthor I havent seen it yet but its on my LONG list of things to watch on Netflix lolz.
All my Kdrama recs have been great so I cant wait to dive into this one!
Michelle: Amrican adaptation of a non-American work. Gotta add the love triangle and the threads of violenve."
Me: *pauses video* I think this is why I am so not wanting to query American literary agents, and why some people find my work "unemotional." I don't write about that kind of violence and that kind of love stuff. Might be a cultural problem.
I've never seen the point of love triangles or any of that. So I'm there with you. (Everything I write turns into platonic relationships and/or found families. Anything more than that may only be hinted as a "yeah, it might have happened. Off screen. A long time ago. But I'm not getting into it")
Honestly, I don't write about that stuff either! I think that applies more to American films/shows than books tbh. If the book doesn't have it, execs seem to want to cram it in.
Wow this was a lot to unpack, I'm with you on this, like the book sounds great, the adaptation not so much!
It started out so promising, but...yeahh lol
For the most part I find show/movie adaptations of books to be either be sub-par or enjoyable so long as I've either never read the book, or try and think if it as it's own thing. (Lotr though, I'd say was a great adaptation, even if there were bits from the book I wish they added.) But I gotta say that the one major instance I'd say a show did better than the book, would be Vampire Diaries. Granted, I could only barely force myself to read half of the first book (a series written by, apparently 3 different authors, but under the name LJ Smith, that was first published in 1991) and so far have only watched the first 2 seasons of the 2010 adaptation, but, my goodness is the show immensely better.
You don't even have to watch or read very far in either version to see the drastic changes made to, well, everything. (The vampires, though, are still vampires. I'd say that's the one constant. Lol)
Anyway, I hope your week goes well, and thank you for the video. Your rant actually helped, as there was a bit there in the video you posted (oddly the Frasier clip) that helped me realise something about part of my own story I've been agonising over for the last few weeks. (Both my brain and my MC have been stuck in a rut and I couldn't figure how to get them out of it because I wasn't sure what they should be feeling/dealing with after this huge catalyst moment) so thank you!
LOTR remains one of my favorite adaptations of all time. (I think that's a pretty universal opinion - they really did the book justice.) That's so interesting about Vampire Diaries! I'm happy to hear you had a little revelation about your WIP - that's awesome! :D
@@MichelleSchustermanAuthor like I said in the chat, I obsessed over LotR so much that I wore out our videos. So yeah, hardcore love for that series. 😂 I recently got the blu-ray set but haven't watched them again, because beyond being a rabbit hole to fall down (because I obsess and study the costumes, revisit old cosplay sites like AlleyCatScratch, decide to invest time into checking out the modern fandoms...its more than just watching a movie for me. I blame my younger self that discovered this massively all-consuming special interest. Lol) I know I'm going to have an LotR brain going and completely forget what style in writing my current series in. (Or end up popping on the soundtrack to write to and have super randomly intense and epic scenes happen because the music inspired them...yep. That's a thing that I discovered can happen. And have since learnt that soundtracks are best left to be listened to when doing anything non-writing related.😅)
Anyway, I hope you have a good week. And good luck with your writing.
The Vampire Diaries books were so painful. Another example of an adaptation that improved upon the original is The Magicians.
I think it comes down to a lot of the things mentioned in the video, like WHY a change was made and how it contributes to the characters' journeys and the themes of the story.
Like in both TVD & the Magicians, the shows changed characters to add depth, motivation, and complexity - think of Katherine in the original TVD or Penny in the Magicians. They both balanced out the main POV with rich ensembles of supporting characters, giving you a much more nuanced understanding, adding layers of empathy and interdependence.
They also did a good job of tying in the changes to support powerful overarching themes - like TVD the show is way more than just a one-dimensional love triangle like it is in the book and Julia's story in the Magicians the show is not just like... sexual assault for character development.
So it definitely CAN be done, but once you see it done really well I feel like it makes the bad adaptations harder to stomach.
@@secondjulia Oh man, I never watched the Magicians but I've definitely heard good things about the adaptations. Those are such great points!
this was so detailed and well-explained, i’m in awe 🫶 thank you so much!