5 Descending Positions So Dangerous They Were Banned
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- When the UCI banned some of the peloton's favourite aerodynamic descending positions on safety grounds, they were met with some criticism. Did they have the best interests of cyclists at heart, or do they just hate fun? We did the sensible thing and sent our resident crash test dummy down the side of a mountain to find out.
*all dodgy descents at GCN are performed by trained (ish) professionals. Do not try this at home.
0:00 - Intro
0:40 - The Superman
2:02 - The Pantani
3:13 - Chest On The Bars
4:07 - The Supertuck
5:11 - Puppy Paws
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![เบิ้ล ปทุมราช - อ้ายกินดอง น้องลาบงัว ft. สแน็ก อัจฉรีย์ [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-OK--KaSPcI/mqdefault.jpg)
What's your favourite descending position?
Pantani, because when emergency breaking there is more weight on the backwheel so it does not lift up and can still contribute to breaking power.
The superman actually makes sense, at least based on the best way to dive into water
@@davetbassbos Or splat into a roadblock.
Sitting on the saddle, with my hands on the drops covering the brakes 😬
The roll-over after crashing
I did the Superman once when I was a kid. I have to say the paramedics were some of the nicest people I've ever met.
I did it as a kid once on a group ride... in the next turn I almost went over the guard railing and then it would have been one direction only: down! Took weeks to go remotely fast on a bike again.
I always make sure I wear my cape when I go in that position. Makes it double safe when the cape gets sucked down into the rear wheel.
😂😂😂
did it this summer twice on my touring bike, packed with only one saddle bag(sic!). first time went well but thanks to high spirits the second time broke my palm bone, because the bike went from unstable to uncontrollable, while i was climbing back to normal position. ;) now i'm back on track xD
@@daryl4841 "no capes!"
... and with this we want to thank Hank for risking life, limb, and jiblets (Froome position) in making this video! Good stuff young man.
We're yet to find out what he won't risk for 7 minutes of bad jokes
I noticed it's usually Hank when it's the dangerous stuff.
Don't forget about nearly loosing his underwear. Oh sh*t, cyclists don't wear underwear!
@@bratSebastian we dont?
@@v4riab1lity77 I've heard it's time for cycling shorts. Repeatedly.
In the last lap of the 2015 World Cycling Championship in Richmond Virginia, Peter Sagan broke away on a steep cobblestone climb but commentators said the gap wasn't big enough to win. But then he used the Supertuck (legal at the time) on the subsequent downhill and pulled further away while coasting despite his competitors pedaling furiously. He not only greatly extended his lead, but allowed his legs to recover for the final push to the finish.
any advancement is banned... great job.
Peter Sagan's above average mass also gives him some advantage on descents. He's one of the rare decorated cyclists with a fairly muscular upper body.
@@JaredCzaia Muscular upper body, and I thought that only happened on Yowapeda.
@@JaredCzaia Thor Hushovd, as well.
So basically, any of the positions we used on our bikes going to or from school are banned !
They won't even let you carry your team mate on your handlebars while you desperately stretch to see over their shoulder during the Tour de France
@@gcn Teammates aren't allowed to sit on the back behind you either I presume?
So no sitting on the bars backwards?
@@gcn lol
@@gcn Not even when you carry him uphill first?
I can only imagine at the production meeting, one of the producers said they're going to shoot a video about banned positions, then asked who should host and every eye turned to Hank.
The Pantani position is used quite often in mountain biking; If you brake suddenly, it'll keep you from going over the handlebars.
Yeah, I sort of do it on my road bike when I brake quickly
I instinctively used it to keep my weight back during a single track section of a gravel race so I didn't go over the handle bars. Only for a few seconds but was nessessary.
I think the main issue is that you are tucking yourself behind the saddle to get as aero as possible, so you are kinda fixed in place with hardly any weight over the front tyre and little chance of quickly correcting should you need to.
On an MTB you get your weight back but relatively high in comparison as getting caught behind your saddle on steep or technical trails is a recipe for an OTB.
Indeed, but in that case it is used to better control the bike when braking or descending steep sections which you wouldn't be able to go down otherwise, with the added bonus of weighing the rear wheel so that you can apply harder braking without flying over the bars. Not for going 60+ mph down an alpine road with your arms outstretched!
I've tried it once and by (admittedly) my own mistake, my backpack's cheststrap snagged into the saddle's tip preventing me from lifting my chest off the saddle when I hit a bump. What a punch to the ribcage it was! By sheer luck I was able to mantain control and return to the normal position without falling, but I've learned my lesson.
The "Pantani" is also the moutain bike descent style. It reduces the drag but also lower your center of gravity and makes it more difficult to pass and fall across the top of your front wheel.
it's not so much that it lowers your CG, more that it gets it as far back as possible, so it's harder to go over the bars, which is a REAL problem in some montain bike descents
@@aymericpeten761 partly depends on the rest of the bike. Long enough stays can help keep the front from wanting to pop up plus a low bb height. Effective top tube length and stem length and weight distribution.
Did Hank ride up the climb for each of those positions? That's dedication.
I did the supertuck once and my foot slipped off the pedal downhill. To say it was shit-your-pants terrifying is an understatement
I regularly supertuck on descents. Only on the relatively flat ish straight road ones tho
@@EstelonAgarwaen
I do it every time i see a big downhill with light traffic. It's so much fun to go fast especially on the bike
I got into doing it on descents until the bike got a big wobble on when going down a particularly steep descent. That bike has never shimmied otherwise and it hasn't happened again, but that's just because I scared myself shitless so I've never done it again!
@@kyle_c936
That happened to me too. I was going down the same downhill when i got the wobble. It was startling lol
Time to invest on some clipless pedals then.
Kudos to Hank for being able to chat and host while keeping those challenging positions!
Froomey‘s descent was legendary though:) Pidcock‘s descent this year was insane!
I definitely use the Pantani going down descents never knew there was a name for it just thought I found comfortable position It makes me feel much more stable. Great video !!!
I personally love the supertuck. It took me several months to really gain the confidence to employ it on command and even still it's kinda scary at times, but man is it fast!
I like the supertuck (chris froome) too, not for pedaling, it feels quite stable to me....
+1 for the Sagan super tuck on descents. No Froome pedaling for me tho
currently (still) UCI legal, a dropper post appears to mimic the supertuck 🤔 Did someone calculate and compare the effect Mohoric had on the Poggio descent thanks to his dropper post? Or was it more a psychological trick he played against the peloton and actually his recconing gave him the confidence to descend as insanely as he did?
(Being not in races but on public roads, I hardly ever did the supertuck, but it's always remarkable how even rolling out in the flat it gives an edge, decreasing your drag.)
@@nikveldkamp8630 dropper post definitely allows for both super tuck and panatini just by shifting your weight forward and back. A dropper post makes sense to make it safer to adjust aero and knee position on the go.
@@0xsergy that I already know - was asking if s.o. calculated the aero gains in comparison to supertuck etc.
On Sept. 13, 1948, Roland “Rollie” Free, riding prone on a specially prepared Vincent Black Shadow considered the first Black Lightning, and wearing nothing more than a pair of beach shoes and a bathing suit and cap, made his historic 150.313mph land speed record run on the Bonneville Salt Flats. There must be something to the superman position.
Have the poster on my wall!
@@bennyb.1742 As well as a cyclist you must be a motorcyclist?
Came here to say that. Absolutely terrifying stunt, that one.
And I mean, he did start out wearing full leather protective gear. But then when it started ripping, he just stripped down and did the thing pretty much naked. Like I said, terrifying.
Good video, compact with humor, good audio and video quality. Good job guys!
Hank, you are a legend, so close to those barriers sometimes, gave me goose bumps :) x
Ferb, i know what we're gonna do today.
Awesome video. I made a wiseass comment about another video and - I'm sure this video was planned well in advance - but it feels like I got a whole video in response the next day. Made my day!
The supertuck is actually quite safe, the reason it was banned was more to do with carbon top tubes not liking being sat on.
A lot of cracked plastic frames, and if you submit a carbon frame for warranty with a cracked top tube, every manufacturer will declare it as warranty voided/no warranty, you just have to purchase a new one.
That's interesting, I didn't know that. Of course, the layup on a carbon frame is strategic - they only give each section of the frame as much or as little strength as it needs, to save weight, and no way would they factor in the weight of the rider on the top tube!
It's even the same principle with high-end steel frames - the top tube is butted, ~6mm at the ends down to ~0.3mm along the centre of the top tube, which is why it's easy to dent the top tube of a high-end steel frame.
What are the statistics of pro's snapping frames in this position? One?
I've used the supertuck since 2008, and have never heard of a snapped frame because of it.
Thank you for the inspiration!
Very impressive riding, Hank!
It shouldn't be called the Chris Froome position. If anything, it should be called the "Matej Mohoric" position, who invented and perfected the aero tuck years before Froome
Exactly!!
angleži k angleži... k da so že kej svojga pogruntal ;)
OMG!! Hank, you ARE superman! Getting through all those positions whilst descending!! Loved the video and don't worry, you won't be seeing me doing that stuff. What's next? BMX trick bike video like Danny Mac Askill? Super content! Super video! And hope you are not super sore!
I wonder when the pros are going to start going for dropper posts? Still on the saddle, hands on the brakes, feet on the pedals, but super tuck!
MTB droppers are a weight penalty of about 300-400g. But something slimmer and not needing to be a beefy for the road might be 200g or so. It’s not like some of those UCI bikes don’t need added weight to make the legal 6.8kg anyhow.
It will probably come, sooner or later. My guess is that it still brings an aero disadvantage when not used, considering all(?) dropper post are round.
@@hateferd I don’t think that’s gonna be an issue. Modern dropper post actually have an insert cartridge. It works kind of the same as the shocks to lift a hatch on the back of a vehicle. That’s why it’s not such a big issue anymore if you pick up the bike by the seat while the dropper is down. Still shouldn’t do it though. I would imagine for a road bikes they can get it shaped into an air dynamic profile. Might actually be a big benefit to help keep the post from being able to have a turning motion side to side.
@@autoracerboy An aeroshape with moving parts is stressing the material way more than a round shape. Once they solve that aero dropper post will be on the market.
Didn’t Mohoric use one to his advantage earlier this year in Italy, when riding into San Remo?
GCN did do a video comparing super-tuck, dropper post and a straight bum on seat. - i think it was Ollie - the dropper was not as fast as a super-tuck, but is faster than standard.
droppers are also very stable on descent because your bum is on the seat. so safer and faster. has appeal if allowed. i do it on my mtb on the road! ;-)
Now that I know it's called PuppyPaws, I'm much more likely to use it! I've been doing it on my MTB (flat bar) on flats and moderate (paved) downhills. It feels very safe if only used in proper context (similar to TT bars). E.g., I wouldn't do it while drafting behind someone ...
yea i do it when i am out alone and i have a massive headwind makes it a bit more doable
As a kid I rode what I would call the “front basket position”. My friend rode the bike, pedaling, while I rode on the handle bar of that same bike on the same ride on an old shwinn kids bike zooming on a long steep downhill. The experience was so exhilarating it is still fresh and clear in my mind. Needless to say, I lived, miraculously!
Yep I used to do just that - ride on the handlebars or sideways the bar which were both very bumpy to let us both get on the one bike.
I’m not really into cycling, but this man deserved the watch and comment for risking his own safety to demonstrate banned moves 😂
Puppy paws seems like a no-factor. If you can take both hands off the bars to shove bottles in your jersey, you can rock paws on long straights. Wouldn’t use it on descents, but out front in the break or driving the peleton, it seems no bigger a safety issue than using both hands to strap on a musette in the feed zone. Obviously you can’t ban no-hands riding because riders need to grab bags, bottles, remove jackets, etc,
All of what you've written makes perfect sense (maybe a bit too much sense for the UCI!) but there's just one situation where it could cause a crash and, if it happens in front of a group, a pile-up, and that's when a rider in the puppy paws position hits a pot-hole and loses their balance to the point where they go down, which I think is why it was banned (even though I don't know if that ever actually happened).
Ok that's a bit tenuous and it could still happen when doing the other things you've listed, of course, but these things are things you have to do and puppy paws isn't. Marianne Vos being disqualified for all of three seconds of it on Sunday seems ridiculous, though - the punishment surely didn't fit the 'crime'.
@@kyle_c936 That’s a good point; the speed bump crash does kind of make the point that even pros can make simple but impactful mistakes.
No doubt on the Vos situation; she immediately recognized the fault and corrected herself. Very harsh penalty, and so poorly timed! Back to the paws: yes, someone out front hitting a pothole, rock, or a fan holding a sign 😁 could cause a pile-up.
@@ddthompson42 Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking of the speed bumps! And right enough, even a rock that the rider might have steered around otherwise, and of course they can't really steer when they're in that position so they can't avoid stuff - I'd never thought of that aspect of it. Still stretching it, and these situations are unlikely ever to arise, but anyway, maybe the commissaires in Norway should have been allowed to use a bit more discretion with Vos - I think maybe they felt their hands were tied.
I use puppy paws to cope with the coastal headwinds on my S bar (flat) Brompton commute. Its surprisingly comfortable, and no effect on stability - you essentially steer and shock absorb with your forearms and shoulders. Arms contact with the bars just in front of the elbows. Also means I can get forward on the saddle and get a really fluid powerful rhythm going.
Looks bloody daft on a Brompton, but then that's only marginal gain over the riding a Brompton normally look
I use the Pantani position to shed speed, braking hard but keeping the weight over the back for grip and stop it kicking up. Added benefit that any cars behind you have a clear signal you’re slowing/stopping. Has anyone been DQ’d for it?
I don’t agree with the ban on puppy paws: yes, your hands are away from the brakes but by that logic you should ban TT bikes. You’d only do it on the flat and when you’re on your own or on the front anyway
Sorry I cannot descend that fast on my bike INSIDE my home.....😂
I just love descending on the drops head down, my fastest ever speed I got down the east descent of mount Leinster was 95KPH, it was a rush, Just didn't tell the wife about the speed part.
I had aero bars on my road bike for quite a while and I loved bombing down hills with them. If your willing/able to take a few scary fast corners without the brakes, it’s epic. I would do a sort of half pantani position while gripping the aero bars. And it feels like your legit flying
I am sure some of us will try some of these actions by themselves after watching this video. For me, I am happy to see Hank demonstrating these dangerous actions so that I don't have to try.
My seat is already at minimum height, i literally cant do these positions lol
MANNNnnnnnn ....the background !!!!! Where was the opening shot ? Thank you Hank and crew... wow dude
Some of us know you just wanted to ride those banned positions. :D
4:09 migth be right to say Matej Mohoric was the proper innovator that introduce the supertuck and even he can recall he is not the original one, but well fame and fortune give everything to froomey
Dean Meyer is the first I believe to do the supertuck. Few other videos out there confirm this.
imagine what the drivers passing him are thinking
I switch handlebars quite regularly on my fixed gear, and puppy paws is my aero position when using riser bars instead of drops
The reasons to play videos with Hank are always getting better!!
Amazing that Hank seems pretty happy with the control in the Superman position, but is so unhappy with "puppy paws". I get that he can't cover the brakes, but still!
It's not just about covering the brakes, it is also about no firm leverage or grip with the handlebars.
@@andrewmcalister3462 yeah, but still! In the puppy paws position it's pretty easy to get your hands to the hoods and be in a normal riding position, whereas in the superman position Hank seems pretty stuck there
@@willmc4403 agreed. if you have any amount of core strength you should be able to control the bike with your legs and your core for anything other than cornering and braking. potholes/root bumps on trails do suck in that position however.
1:02 those people were so confused at what they just witnessed
"Must be one of those E-bikes gone haywire trying to race off without him." 😂
The funny thing I found was that they didn't even appear to notice - I was expecting the guy's head to swivel, but no. Maybe there was a delayed reaction, though - maybe the guy stopped whatever he was doing and said to his pal, "Did you just see what I just saw?"
"What?"
"A guy... flying... on a bike..."
"Don't think so. You've been up in these mountains for too long, pal."
Loved the superman, GCN meets Jackass
The Pantani actually looks very safe. That's basically the normal MTB position for going steep downhill. The only difference is, the saddle would be much lower so that it doesn't hit you when you hit a big rock or a root. The big advantage is, your weight is very far back, so you can hit the brakes harder without going over the bars, which in a racing scenario means you can hit the brakes later, giving you a few split seconds advantage on every turn, even if we ignore the aerodynamic advantage.
Perfect timing given the Vos saga.
Same as with Simon a couple weeks ago showing how to brake hard after Frain torpedoed Cavalli and Spratty in the TdFF.
If you wanna attribute the supertuck to a pro rider do it to Mohorič who did it better and 3 years earlier winning U23 world champs
Was riding my decents in the supertuck position years before Mohorič was even siting on a bycicle.
@@aleszverca did you do it in a professional race?
@@invisiblescout6335 That doesn't really matter, as said I am old enough to be his father and was using the super tuck way back, just saying it wasn't invented by Moho just like it's portrayed in the media...not saying he is a bad rider, he is my fellow countryman. The thing is he just used is first among the racers, maybe he saw me do it somewhere here in Slovenia, maybe not, smart as he is probably he realized about the advantages him self ✌ peace out.
Looking forward to seeing the outtakes...
respect to the cameraman for doing all of these positions backwards while filming
To see him pull these off is incredible because not even Hank can make these look easy🫣
May I know what place this is? I always love it when I see this background on your videos, it's quite breathtaking!
Deer gawd Hank you almost scared the poop outta me. Thou like a train wreck I couldn't look away, you're awesome dude.
thanks for putting the thumbnail position first. I feel respected
I always wondered how guys were able to do the superman position, although the gals should have no problem. I tried it once, ouch... I'm not having kids in the future for sure
The seat goes on your belly, not groin. Any gender can do it!
One of the best parts about these videos is the background.
I use a 'DropPost' on my mountain bike, which lowers the seat to any preferred height with a thumb lever. Admittedly, this could pose a slight weight penalty in a race, but the advantage is won back by its versatility, especially on trails with steep descents where it even allows moving your centre of gravity behind the seat. I also grip the bars near the centre-post, tuck in my elbow and knees to the centreline, and dip my head down on straightaways. Whoosh!
UCI is pretty much banning anything that gives you an advantage
I'm a reckless mountain biker and even I was extremely nervous watching this
Performed by a cycling professional.....guess that is why Ollie is not in the episode. Thanks for the heads up on that item Manon!
Hank deserve a raise for this! lol
Wow, great video. The Superman doesn't seem like one everyone could do.
Imagine being on the Pantani position, then a road bump happens to find its way under your wheels. Imagine you then slide towards the rear wheel, your balls touching the rapidly spinning tire and jamming into the seatstay bridge and suddenly becoming a makeshift emergency brake.
I fitted extra bullbars with duplicate brakes to do 'puppy paws' ...also did 'laid back' bars for slow cruizin with a bike trailer full of beer....
5:35 haha I often start like that from a resting position after stopping for the red lights, didn't know I was a UCI's rules breaker
I just realized I do puppy paws all the time. The main thing about it is I have to be extremely confident the road is smooth because it's potentially very easy to pop my elbows off and that's not good. Only on straights.
People say pantani is used on MTB. I was always too scared for that, but with all the newer bikes having dropper seats I think it would be a great deal safer than it was.
Hanks dad needs to tell him to stop that stuff.
Hank made us promise not to show his dad. Not sure he understands how "filming a video and putting it on the internet" works
Next time: Hank riding in super dangerous knee-height socks.
OOOOHHHH those position are meant for descending ? :O guess thats why i struggle so much with going up hills...
Pretty difficult to climb in the Superman
Well - I’ve lived to hear Hank say “that’s too dangerous”! 😮
You could see the actual fear in hanks eyes on the last descent he was literally "nope i dont get paid enough for this"
It makes me wonder if every other presenter was "I'm not daft enough to actually do these!".
You sound like you have a bit of a cold Hank, if so I hope you get well soon. Hard working man!
It's a shame that you credited the 'Supertuck' to Chris Froome, when Mohorič was actually the first one doing it.
That "Pantani" position can't be that dangerous, I see mountain bikers doing it ALL the time down 50% slopes in races without getting banned?!?!?!
On that GMBN note, Hank should have tried the still currently UCI legal 2023 season position - "the dropper post" with his seat 80-100mm lower than usual. Roadies lost their minds when discs came in, can you imagine the furore over needing a new frame with integrated aero wireless dropper?
Any chance you guys are planning on switching to 4K content for youtube? I'd love to enjoy the channel on the big screen!
That Superman one would be amazing with a cape!
straight in with the superman!
Urs Zimmermann was using that descending position years before Pantani was even a pro. (see the 86 tour)
Well the thumbnail was so on point cause if you're trying these, you won't be able to do them at home
Ah, I see we've gone back to trying to kill Hank
I can see why these have all been banned, especially the Superman position, which seems totally bonkers.
tune in next week... Hank goes shopping for new bib shorts!
I held my breath for a record amount of time. 7 minutes and 33 seconds to be exact.
GCN I LOVE U GUYSSSSDDS
I lost my big toe
I want to see the pros with dropper posts. Seems like a perfect compromise between safety and allowing more aero position.
It worked at Milan-SanRemo this year.
Yeah, when you think about it, the 'correct' saddle height only works when you're pedalling - when you're cornering or descending it's effectively far too high.
The background is beautiful
Really interesting (and uncomfortable). I'm surprised that the 'superman' position could be held for more than about 5 seconds. Great scenery.
It’s really not THAT bad but the real problem Hank failed to mention is it’s quite difficult to get back from a superman.. so down you go xD
Unpopular opinion:
A dropper post for your roadbike seat is a good idea for fast descends
In the past, I'd put both hands in the middle of the handlebar, feet unclipped and on the crankset and tuck my head so low that I'd have to see the road through my visor holes. I could follow road bikes on my MTB in descent with that position.
Amazing views:)
Breaking out in a cold sweat just looking at some of those positions and Hank wobbling around some of those curves 😟
Nice bike handling there Hank.
Got anxiety watching Hank risk life and limb on this one
I guess I’m riding puppy paws when I fly by you on beach drive!
I've got bar ends (not) to either side of the stem of my flat-bar hybrid. They cut down your frontal area into the wind, especially if you get down low. Wouldn't try that on a descent, though, and if I've got panniers on the rear and there's a crosswind it's a bit sketchy on any kind of downslope.
Love to see how this could be done at home to be honest
Superman position, I wil never try that, but hilarious to watch, lol 😂😂
I remember when the predecessor to the supertuck came into fashion, shoulders on the bar tops. This was the early 80s... I'm old... 😂 Before that everyone used the egg: hands on top of bars next to stem, knees tucked in, chin as low as it would go. Seems like everyone has gone back to that now.
I think the latter one might be on the cusp of being banned, if only because, even if it's safe for the pros, someone could get into serious trouble trying to emulate it if something causes them to have to brake. But it's like everything else - if you do it safely, it's safe.
Going full crazy: Superman AND Puppy Paws combo position(!)
Please don't 😅
As teenagers Going downhill on a bmx, me sitting on the handlebars, my brother on the saddle and a friend squeezed in the middle.
Can’t remember how it happened but the there was a lot of blood a lot of road rash and not very happy parents…good times
Don't worry...UCI courses will just put speed bumps around turns at the bottom of descents leading into the finish whilst lined with steel barricades...you know, for rider safety. We see how that worked out. UCI is a joke!
Supertuck is my favorite. I even use it when I'm riding my MTB on tarmac/asphalt. But I'm not sure if it's safe for those riders who are heavier than 75 kilograms. Cause it puts some extra pressure on the handlebar and also fork.