I have nothing to add about the actual machining that hasn't already been said. Good work, flycutter, et cetera. But I had to comment just to marvel at the outdoor scenery, with what I presume was some manner of root cellar once upon a time. Thanks so much for showing us your work and your environs.
Excellent build. You took the time to figure things out and not rushing it up. good image quality. Excellent sound and diction. Thanks for not putting any annoying music during your commenting. Much appreciated. Thanks for posting!
I was going to say... but by the look of the other comments, you've already heard the words "fly cutter" plenty more times than sufficient. You do great narration... looking forward to seeing more of your videos.
GOOD show! Awesome. One of THE BEST DIY'rs I have seen. You "cut" right to the "chase". You show us how, then you do NOT bore us with repetitive video which is totally unnecessary; which is sadly very common on You Tube. Truly a "cut above". May Jesus continue to bless you with these incredible gifts; that you graciously share with others.
To get your chuck running dead true, take a dowel pin and indicator like you showed in the video and mark the lowest reading on the pin. Locate the nearest chuck jaw and remove it. Put it in a vice and using a carbide mill cutter, take off a few thousands. Replace the jaw and repeat until it runs true on the diameter and length.
* جدید را را برای ما که به صورت صورت می گرفت سلام را از بین می روند تا حالا شده بود به من و همسرم در حال انجام می دهند تا در مورد آن را از بین می روند تا حالا شده بود به من و همسرم در حال انجام می دهند تا در مورد آن را از بین می روند تا حالا شده بود به من و همسرم در حال انجام داده اند تا از طریق سایت ها به عنوان یکی یکی دیگر به آن اضافه کرده اند تا از طریق ایمیل ارسال می کنم به عنوان یه چیزی تو را به من و همسرم در حال
Nice little videos and I enjoyed the process. In order to get rid of the runout in the chuck machine the register undersize and then adjust the runout using the mounting bolts.It is the way lathe chucks can be mounted and they have to contend with way more torque than your rotary axis ever will. Keep up the good work.
Yes one could get lower runout that way, but at the expense of more time to mount and then adjust the chuck. And I think it would be more difficult (time consuming) to move the chuck between the lathe and 4th axis, which I find really convenient. I can see the advantage of doing it that way if one had a chuck dedicated to just one machine though.
I totally agree, this channel only has sub 1000 subscribers, it baffles me. I think his explanation is very clear, soothing voice to listen to as well. Let's try to get BrainRight some extra subs by sharing his video's
Hello Jay - Molten steel shrinks 2.5% by volume when it solidifies. This is why welding creates so much distortion. It's a much more significant distortion than just the metal cooling. For your sort of machine building you should look at silver solder or brazing. As there is no molten parent metal solidifying there is very little distortion. This produces much better machine parts then welding. Good productions and machines. Regards Peter S mech engineer and fellow CNC machine builder.
Nice job brother. I envy people who have the equipment to do such work. I think the run-out on the pin in the chuck originated between the chuck and the jaws. Maybe a bit of internal grinding on the jaws to sort out this problem. Just remember to support the jaws on the inside when you do the grinding and not like people normally would do clamping a ring on the outside.
thanks for this video ! yes deformation always occurs with welding, when a non professional do this type of operation (with or without using oven in order to relax constraint) this is close to impossible or a miracle if we must not rectified at the end. An old mecanist explain me a simple trick as soon as possible always prefer using cold drawn steel with brazing bonding instead welding this 99% enought robust for our needs and avoid welding stress and this most easy to relax constraints.
Cool jobb. Weldment is special type of animal. Preheat and post heat and clamp the bottom plate to thicker plate and let it cool down, then you can reduce a lot of tension and flex from the part.
That was so cool! I'm talking about the final moments watching the test run. I'm very impressed, but not being a machinist (I'm a retired major crimes detective) means I'm probably easy to impress. Nonetheless, I think this is one of the very best DIY demonstrators on TH-cam and I watch a LOT of them. The narrator has a calm, even tone when speaking and maintains a good continuous flow with very few breaks filled with "uhh" and "umm" like most people naturally fall into. It's important to avoid maximum verbosity as well, which this TH-camr does very very well. I enjoy writing (ya think?) and am pretty good at articulating what I observe regardless of my personal knowledge with respect to the subject matter. Lastly, microphone is of good quality as far as social media goes, and camera work is top notch. Great job!! Subscribing.
BrainRight Keep up the good work my friend! Hope you get through any rough patch you may or may not be going through. Having retired prematurely due to injuries I'm delving into new hobbies and giving up others. After decades of building many things from houses to pickups and boats I'm going to start my new path with the smaller but far more challenging things I'm watching here and elsewhere. Machine shop work should have been an offering forty years ago in high school. Oh well, the good thing is we don't necessarily lose the ability to learn. 😁
Awesome job. Do you teach people or s.th. like that ? It would have been awesome for me to had a teacher like you who can explain the stuff he is doing.
Re that base plate distortion - heat the whole piece up to just below red heat before welding. After welding, heat again to red heat, put on anvil, and hammer those flanges down. Then you'd need only a very thin mill shave off to get the base flat.
Hot metal shrinks does not have to be molten. After welding the unit could have been annealed before machining to release stress caused by welding. Annealing would make the mount stable. I Fly cutter pass over the entire plate in one pass. Would produce a flat base.
Annealing sounds like good advice and I expect it would have reduce the flattening passes, though think my lightweight mill would still require multiple passes due to its limited rigidity.
Nice work video and audio quality is also good. I hope this can be used only for light jobs as the reduction drive with stepper motor is seen to be very small.
Thanks. My milling machine is a PM-25MV which is very similar to the G0704 and I plan to convert it to CNC someday. I'm not (yet) planning to make a 5th axis but with its large gear reduction ratio this unit should have the torque for it.
Did you consider cutting slots across the edges of the tube to fit the corner brackets in? It would get rid of a few precision fitting steps and let you weld from the outside of the tube.
dazaspc is a flycutter bit better than a flat end bit? I mean it does cut a wider swath, but if you only do small hobby projects and not production work is it needed? I have no machine shop experience but would like to learn. I've got a great basement shop with everything I need to build motors for trucks and boats and I build my own custom rifles. If I can eventually get a lathe or milling machine and lathe combo I'd like to learn to machine small parts.
A fly cutter could do it in one hit, but on a (dare I say) lightweight milling machine chatter etc could become a problem. If you want to learn machining have a look at th-cam.com/video/JBDNu_ViHlU/w-d-xo.html He makes a fly cutter, and explains why etc. I really enjoyed this video...makes me realise how spoilt I have been using much larger machinery all my life,
I wouldn't say it was easy, but _straightforward_ meaning that it was a lot of work but each step was simple enough. I made my design choices to fit my tools and inclination, and you could certainly simplify or eliminate some steps while making others more involved if you want. The main reason for most of my successful projects, both personally and professionally, is that I invariably underestimate how much work they will take. So I start. By the time reality sets in, it's too late to quit so I just have to keep at it and get it done. If I were more realistic in the beginning, I'd probably never start anything. I don't think that's a good approach for everyone but if you want to make a 4th axis, I'd say just go for it and see what happens. It might not be easy but it will probably work out. :-)
Thank you, I think you are right, i do believe it would take more time then I estimate right now and i'm also no stranger to underestimating a job myself, but then, if I would know upfront what's coming then where is the fun in that..., after all i'm doing this to learn and enjoy... good luck with your video's. I enjoy watching them. Best wishes from Costa Rica. Pura Vida!
You should experiment with your mill to see just how deep a cut you can reasonably expect to be able to make. The reason being that you want to avoid excessive use (and the resultant wear) of the very tip of your end mill. The sides of an endmill are good cutting edges. Make use of them when possible and spare the tip. Again, impressive 4th axis!
Yeah I'm still learning the mill and what it will or won't handle, and in the beginning I was taking pretty shallow cuts but I've started getting more aggressive with it. I think it will help now that I've switched from collets to end mill holders where I no longer have to worry about the cutter slipping as it did on my T slot faceplate video.
You do very excellent work, you remind me of me....LOL I to play the guitar as well as dabble in just about everything. which model and brand drivers did you end up using on you cnc controller.
Thanks. It's possible that annealing would reduce the stress but I don't think it would be very effective. The problem is that the weld solidifies when it's much hotter than the surrounding metal, so as it cools and contracts it's going to develop tension because there's just not enough metal to fill the gap at room temperature. Professional welders develop a good sense of how the metal is going to move and how to compensate for it while welding, which is a real art, but as an amateur I have to weld it as best I can and compensate by machining afterward.
The Chinese 4th axis units aren't necessarily bad, depending on what you want to use it for. For some woodworking applications I think they would be adequate, but they don't have a very large reduction ratio (typically 6:1) so that gives higher speed but lower precision and holding torque vs. the 45:1 reduction that this gearbox has. I don't think those units would be usable for most metalworking applications.
I found these harmonic drives on ebay and purchased one. Going to try and build something like you did only I plan to use a nema 23 Clearpath motor. Thanks for the inspiration!
Nice job, I would add some constructive advise to you. Although as you stated your hobbyist machinist a small say 3" face mill would be a good addition to your tooling. All those passes you made on the bottom of stepper housing could have been completed in 2-3 passes as opposed to god knows how many with that, I guessing 1/2" end mill. Advantages would be considerably less time and more importantly less heat generated and better surface finish. I especially liked the spline you added that will pay off big time in future setups. I enjoyed your presentation and attention to detail good luck with your new 4th axis. But get a small face mill !! They are all over Flea bay just make sure that the inserts are common and still available. Some of the tooling seems like a good buy but sometimes you get it only to find the inserts are no longer available.
Agreed, and after this project I bought a 50mm indexable shell mill. I haven't tried it yet, except for a quick test, but I think it would have saved a lot of time.
Using flat head bolts to hold the parts of the box together would have resulted in no warping and probably would have been faster and easier than welding. 1/4" or 3/8ths bolts with locktite would have provided all the strength and rigidity you would need to match the rigidity of the harmonic drive, stepper and chuck which, after all, you assembled with adapters made from aluminum. This box would probably support a car and with the fussing to get things square again after welding it probably isn't worth it.
Magnificent. I know a Harmonic Drive is almost the only way to go for 4th axis. I only have one question. How well does the 20 size HD holding? Is it stiff enough or would you recommend a bigger size, like 25? My CNC mill is same as yours (different brand Optimum BF20) and I'll use the same 100mm size chuck. Thanks.
Thanks, and to be clear it's a Harmonic Drive brand gearbox but internally it's a low-backlash planetary gear train not a strain-wave gear (which is often inaccurately called a "harmonic drive"). I've never had any problem with the holding torque, but I only do light machining of soft materials so there is very little cutting force. For wood and light cuts in aluminum I think it's fine, but if I were to move it to my milling machine to cut steel I'd probably take light cuts, no heavy hogging with roughing mills for example.
Great job... One question... what made you change your mind about which side you'd mount the 4th axis on the Mill ? Early in the video you talked about changing the plan for the wiring hole as you'd prefer the axis on the left side of the table and the wire coming out of the back side but actually made it to original plan.
I'm making this comment at the point where you were discussing the welding of the plates on the bottom and end. It seems that heat is necessary but that it is a necessary evil for what it does to the metal as warping. Then requiring the added work to shape and trim each surface flat and square in relation to all the other surfaces. It is obvious that doing this is necessary to have a precision tool in the end.Somewhere in this process I noticed a shot of your machine that you've been using to do the lathe work, but later I had this thought. I'm interested to know if I caught a glimpse of, and do you have combination vertical mill over a lathe? I've never used a machine like that, but if you do doesn't it provide the ability to accomplish what a separate 4th axis unit accomplishes? But then I thought, maybe you wanted to have a separate unit to use in various machines (like the CNC I saw at one point). Bottom line is, what are your thoughts on having a combination unit of mill over lathe rather than separate? Then add the possibility of having it be to the level of making it automated like a CNC. Additional questions: 1. What is the model names of the mill and or lathe you have and use? 2. What CNC table did you show in your videos? Very nice video for many reasons. Roger
Great video thanks, I'm new to machining but at 5.20 when milling the base plate, wouldn't a fly cutter be better? Sorry if stupid question, Cheers No need to reply, You answered this on another comment. Thanks
I enjoyed watching both parts of this build. Just wondering if you had bolted the plate down before welding and then let it cool before unbolting it, would it have minimized the curl? And your style of work and the guitar got a sub from me...
Glad you enjoyed it. The distortion from welding stresses cannot be eliminated completely by any ordinary means, but It is certainly possible that bolting down the plate before welding would have reduced the curl and I think that would have been a good idea.
I have not yet measured the holding torque but I plan to do so. The theoretical torque is the holding torque of the stepper motor multiplied by the 45:1 gear ratio. This stepper is rated for 2.0 N-m at a drive current of 3A, so theoretically the output holding torque would be 90 N-m. The torque is less when the stepper is rotating, and drops off as the speed increases according to the torque curve of the stepper. I don't have that documentation for this exact motor but I expect it is typical for steppers of this size.
Helloo, Material Diameter: 70 mm , Length : 145 mm , Step Motor : 1.8 Degrees , 4.9A ,15.87 W , 200 Step Reduction Gear : 140 revolution/min , [ 1/10 ] Please help me ? , I did as you showed but I could not reach the result..I should calculate StepsPer , Velocity , Accerlation .. When I write the values obtained as a result of the calculations we made with you, when I make the material take a full tour, it does not come back to the point where it started.
you are very through with the build and fantastic explanation.After welding why did you not relive the welding stress by heating the entire bracket and cooling slowly
Thanks, others have also suggested annealing and I think it would have been a good idea. I don't think it would have greatly reduced the distortion but I expect it would have helped.
Thanks for the reply, I saw that you have heated to 500F to burn off oil before powder coating. That temp is not high enough for annealing but wondering if tolerances have changed after heating and cooling.
5:29 wouldn't a face mill be better for that task? I'm just slowly getting into machining (my two face mills for my mini CNC are still on the way to me)
The usual choice would be a fly cutter, although it may present vibration issues on a lightweight mill like mine and would need very light cuts so it may or may not be faster. On a heavier mill a fly cutter is definitely preferable.
@@BrainRight I have the smaller brother of this machine, I'll receive the face mills within this week. I have converted mine to CNC, I feel like the smaller version of it is very difficult to handle without CNC (=constant feed rates with all axis). I have the xx18 of this machine (you're one is the xx25) how do you feel about your milling machine overall? I asked the original manufacturer in china and they advised the xx32 version.
It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. For example if I were using it to make wooden chess pieces, I wouldn't even bother measuring the runout because it wouldn't be important. If I were using it to cut gears, it could matter a lot. This is similar to runout on a lathe and there are ways to reduce it, such as regrinding the chuck jaws, but it's not worth the trouble for my needs.
I thought you said you were going to exit the power cables to the rear of the unit with chuck facing to the right ? at 13:45 I hear you saying the wires were exiting from the other side I guess it doesn't matter which side but wouldn't it have been better on the other side ?
I expect it would produce a good result but I hesitate to use any abrasive products on the mill. Maybe that's just me being too cautious about it, but I just worry about introducing abrasive grit into the machine. I am shopping for a surface grinder though!
Thanks. Often I don't find the time, and in fact I've been tied up with family matters for a while now. I hope to get back to doing shop projects soon.
I have some fly cutters and probably should have used one on this project, but I didn't anticipate that flattening the surfaces would take so many passes. At least it gave me a chance to add in a little guitar music. :-)
Yes that would have greatly reduced the distortion, but I was trying to seal up the seams so they wouldn't accumulate oil in between the housing and base plate. As I found when preparing it for powder coating, that didn't really work and oil seeped in anyway. Next time I'd use shorter welds and just expect some oil intrusion.
It's a good idea but first I want to make a better enclosure to keep from blowing chips around the shop. I also make guitars, and metal chips aren't kind to spruce!
Sure no problem, I added a link to the full 4th axis project playlist in the description of each video in this series: th-cam.com/play/PL87zHuZbC0ec7DQ-YQjLNBppGahbjjEx2.html
Great job! That looks like that will really come in handy. I'm jealous... wish I had one! Hey, how do you like that PM-25MV that you have? Does that have a brushless motor in it?
Thanks. So far I'm very happy with the PM-25MV and it has exceeded my expectations. That's not to say I wouldn't like a Bridgeport, as this is nowhere near as large or rigid, but it's great for a mill that I can move around (sort of) easily and fit in a corner of my shop. It has two speed ranges selected by moving the drive belt, which takes about a minute, and the brushless motor has a variable-speed drive that I really like.
Using rivets or other fasteners such as bolts would be a tradeoff, definitely easier but probably less rigid than welded joints. I expect it would work fine if it were used for light cuts in soft materials on a CNC router, whereas rigidity would be more of a concern with heavy cuts in steel on a milling machine. It still might work fine in that case, but my lightweight mill is already limited in rigidity so anything I can do to make things beefier is a plus for me.
Definitely yes on the face mill cutter, or a fly cutter, or pretty much anything bigger than what I had on hand. Bolts and nuts would be a tradeoff, easier to assemble but probably not as rigid. That's not to say I actually need so much rigidity, but this thing is very solid.
I have nothing to add about the actual machining that hasn't already been said. Good work, flycutter, et cetera.
But I had to comment just to marvel at the outdoor scenery, with what I presume was some manner of root cellar once upon a time.
Thanks so much for showing us your work and your environs.
Excellent build. You took the time to figure things out and not rushing it up. good image quality. Excellent sound and diction. Thanks for not putting any annoying music during your commenting. Much appreciated. Thanks for posting!
I was going to say... but by the look of the other comments, you've already heard the words "fly cutter" plenty more times than sufficient.
You do great narration... looking forward to seeing more of your videos.
GOOD show!
Awesome. One of THE BEST DIY'rs I have seen. You "cut" right to the "chase". You show us how, then you do NOT bore us with repetitive video which is totally unnecessary; which is sadly very common on You Tube.
Truly a "cut above".
May Jesus continue to bless you with these incredible gifts; that you graciously share with others.
Lobor of Love, this video will live forever.
Thank You
To get your chuck running dead true, take a dowel pin and indicator like you showed in the video and mark the lowest reading on the pin. Locate the nearest chuck jaw and remove it. Put it in a vice and using a carbide mill cutter, take off a few thousands. Replace the jaw and repeat until it runs true on the diameter and length.
Excellent work! You have much more patients than I do.
Good video quality and narration. I have enjoyed the build. Beautiful work.
Thanks for watching.
* جدید را را برای ما که به صورت صورت می گرفت سلام را از بین می روند تا حالا شده بود به من و همسرم در حال انجام می دهند تا در مورد آن را از بین می روند تا حالا شده بود به من و همسرم در حال انجام می دهند تا در مورد آن را از بین می روند تا حالا شده بود به من و همسرم در حال انجام داده اند تا از طریق سایت ها به عنوان یکی یکی دیگر به آن اضافه کرده اند تا از طریق ایمیل ارسال می کنم به عنوان یه چیزی تو را به من و همسرم در حال
Splendid video! I think your videography is perfect as is your narrative. I'll look forward to viewing all your videos.
Love the quality of your work - this amount of overkill is fantastic! Seriously, great work!
Beautifully made video. I especially like the precision you bring to your work. Thank you.
He plays guitar like he works. Steady and deliberate. Well thought out. It's funny. He does both CNC and guitar the exact same way.
That would explain why I play thru a wicked distortion pedal .
Nice little videos and I enjoyed the process.
In order to get rid of the runout in the chuck machine the register undersize and then adjust the runout using the mounting bolts.It is the way lathe chucks can be mounted and they have to contend with way more torque than your rotary axis ever will.
Keep up the good work.
Yes one could get lower runout that way, but at the expense of more time to mount and then adjust the chuck. And I think it would be more difficult (time consuming) to move the chuck between the lathe and 4th axis, which I find really convenient. I can see the advantage of doing it that way if one had a chuck dedicated to just one machine though.
Welcome to TH-cam. I'm guessing you're new here because with videos like this you should have many thousands of subscribers :)
Thanks, I'm glad to see people are finding the videos useful and/or entertaining.
I totally agree, this channel only has sub 1000 subscribers, it baffles me. I think his explanation is very clear, soothing voice to listen to as well.
Let's try to get BrainRight some extra subs by sharing his video's
My thought's exactly!
It's now 2.6K, we are making progress ;)
9.6k now!
Hello Jay - Molten steel shrinks 2.5% by volume when it solidifies. This is why welding creates so much distortion. It's a much more significant distortion than just the metal cooling. For your sort of machine building you should look at silver solder or brazing. As there is no molten parent metal solidifying there is very little distortion. This produces much better machine parts then welding. Good productions and machines. Regards Peter S mech engineer and fellow CNC machine builder.
Nice job brother. I envy people who have the equipment to do such work. I think the run-out on the pin in the chuck originated between the chuck and the jaws. Maybe a bit of internal grinding on the jaws to sort out this problem. Just remember to support the jaws on the inside when you do the grinding and not like people normally would do clamping a ring on the outside.
thanks for this video ! yes deformation always occurs with welding, when a non professional do this type of operation (with or without using oven in order to relax constraint) this is close to impossible or a miracle if we must not rectified at the end. An old mecanist explain me a simple trick as soon as possible always prefer using cold drawn steel with brazing bonding instead welding this 99% enought robust for our needs and avoid welding stress and this most easy to relax constraints.
Cool jobb. Weldment is special type of animal. Preheat and post heat and clamp the bottom plate to thicker plate and let it cool down, then you can reduce a lot of tension and flex from the part.
Thanks I will try improving my technique on the next welding project like this.
Very good job. I like very much your 4th axis. And your guitar.
Nice looking welds! It may be true that a pro can create neater looking welds, but yours look quite strong and solid to me.
You are very informative and well spoken, thank you for the video.
Nice Kings Quest reference at 6:26 - yeah, i know it's a music piece, but i've never encountered it outside of Kings Quest.
Love the 4th axis, in the future you need to hammer your welds as you go to reducer shinkage. This will help keep the metal from binding.
Just throw it in an oven after welding and tell the old lady no cake baking for a while.
That was so cool! I'm talking about the final moments watching the test run. I'm very impressed, but not being a machinist (I'm a retired major crimes detective) means I'm probably easy to impress. Nonetheless, I think this is one of the very best DIY demonstrators on TH-cam and I watch a LOT of them.
The narrator has a calm, even tone when speaking and maintains a good continuous flow with very few breaks filled with "uhh" and "umm" like most people naturally fall into. It's important to avoid maximum verbosity as well, which this TH-camr does very very well. I enjoy writing (ya think?) and am pretty good at articulating what I observe regardless of my personal knowledge with respect to the subject matter.
Lastly, microphone is of good quality as far as social media goes, and camera work is top notch. Great job!!
Subscribing.
Thanks for the encouragement. I've had to take a break due to family matters but I plan to resume posting videos soon. Glad you enjoyed it.
BrainRight Keep up the good work my friend! Hope you get through any rough patch you may or may not be going through. Having retired prematurely due to injuries I'm delving into new hobbies and giving up others. After decades of building many things from houses to pickups and boats I'm going to start my new path with the smaller but far more challenging things I'm watching here and elsewhere. Machine shop work should have been an offering forty years ago in high school. Oh well, the good thing is we don't necessarily lose the ability to learn. 😁
Great video. I'll be looking for more!
Very nice work for a home hobby machinist
I like your music and your style. Thanks.
plus one subscriber, i learned a lot from those videos, greeting from Poland
Greetings, glad you found the videos useful.
PS. I love the guitar music. You play very well.
Bob Ross joke 🤣 he is the Bob Ross of mechanical engineering
Awesome job. Do you teach people or s.th. like that ? It would have been awesome for me to had a teacher like you who can explain the stuff he is doing.
Re that base plate distortion - heat the whole piece up to just below red heat before welding. After welding, heat again to red heat, put on anvil, and hammer those flanges down. Then you'd need only a very thin mill shave off to get the base flat.
Good job, it's a pleasure to learn from you. Keep going..
you do good work. i would suggest removing all the chips before test fitting things... cool finger picking!
Thanks, glad you liked it.
Hot metal shrinks does not have to be molten. After welding the unit could have been annealed before machining to release stress caused by welding. Annealing would make the mount stable. I Fly cutter pass over the entire plate in one pass. Would produce a flat base.
Annealing sounds like good advice and I expect it would have reduce the flattening passes, though think my lightweight mill would still require multiple passes due to its limited rigidity.
Nice work video and audio quality is also good. I hope this can be used only for light jobs as the reduction drive with stepper motor is seen to be very small.
Beautifully quality of your work!
excellent!!! Consider using Harmonic Drive to make 5Axis for my G0704 CNC
Thanks. My milling machine is a PM-25MV which is very similar to the G0704 and I plan to convert it to CNC someday. I'm not (yet) planning to make a 5th axis but with its large gear reduction ratio this unit should have the torque for it.
This time make new upgrade for G0704 CNC.We have the same interests like the guitar!.continue your great job!we will be in touch if you want.Thanks
very good job my friend
Truly a credit to you and your skills thks for the video
Thanks!
Awesome Job well done!! Great job on the video and narration also.
Did you consider cutting slots across the edges of the tube to fit the corner brackets in? It would get rid of a few precision fitting steps and let you weld from the outside of the tube.
Nope, didn't think of that. Seems like it would work well though.
Nice job, have you ever considered making/getting a fly cuter for your mill? It will make life a lot easier.
Thanks, yes I would probably use a fly cutter and/or a shell mill the next time I need to machine a large surface like this.
dazaspc is a flycutter bit better than a flat end bit? I mean it does cut a wider swath, but if you only do small hobby projects and not production work is it needed? I have no machine shop experience but would like to learn. I've got a great basement shop with everything I need to build motors for trucks and boats and I build my own custom rifles. If I can eventually get a lathe or milling machine and lathe combo I'd like to learn to machine small parts.
A fly cutter could do it in one hit, but on a (dare I say) lightweight milling machine chatter etc could become a problem.
If you want to learn machining have a look at th-cam.com/video/JBDNu_ViHlU/w-d-xo.html
He makes a fly cutter, and explains why etc.
I really enjoyed this video...makes me realise how spoilt I have been using much larger machinery all my life,
I made a fly cutter from broken carbide endmill shanks brazed together and ground a cutting tip. It works great.
I use a Tormach Superfly on my mini mill. I do mostly aluminum but I've successfully flattened some cast iron with it too. It works surprisingly well.
Very cool project!
Thanks, i'm building a cnc myself, still deciding whether i do a 4th axis myself or not. you make it seem easy, and that scares me, i know it's not...
I wouldn't say it was easy, but _straightforward_ meaning that it was a lot of work but each step was simple enough. I made my design choices to fit my tools and inclination, and you could certainly simplify or eliminate some steps while making others more involved if you want.
The main reason for most of my successful projects, both personally and professionally, is that I invariably underestimate how much work they will take. So I start. By the time reality sets in, it's too late to quit so I just have to keep at it and get it done. If I were more realistic in the beginning, I'd probably never start anything. I don't think that's a good approach for everyone but if you want to make a 4th axis, I'd say just go for it and see what happens. It might not be easy but it will probably work out. :-)
Thank you, I think you are right, i do believe it would take more time then I estimate right now and i'm also no stranger to underestimating a job myself, but then, if I would know upfront what's coming then where is the fun in that..., after all i'm doing this to learn and enjoy... good luck with your video's. I enjoy watching them. Best wishes from Costa Rica. Pura Vida!
You should experiment with your mill to see just how deep a cut you can reasonably expect to be able to make. The reason being that you want to avoid excessive use (and the resultant wear) of the very tip of your end mill. The sides of an endmill are good cutting edges. Make use of them when possible and spare the tip. Again, impressive 4th axis!
Yeah I'm still learning the mill and what it will or won't handle, and in the beginning I was taking pretty shallow cuts but I've started getting more aggressive with it. I think it will help now that I've switched from collets to end mill holders where I no longer have to worry about the cutter slipping as it did on my T slot faceplate video.
You do very excellent work, you remind me of me....LOL I to play the guitar as well as dabble in just about everything. which model and brand drivers did you end up using on you cnc controller.
Nice video. Would heating it up to 700-1000F for an hour get rid of the residual stresses from the weld so that it retain its shape after machining?
Thanks. It's possible that annealing would reduce the stress but I don't think it would be very effective. The problem is that the weld solidifies when it's much hotter than the surrounding metal, so as it cools and contracts it's going to develop tension because there's just not enough metal to fill the gap at room temperature. Professional welders develop a good sense of how the metal is going to move and how to compensate for it while welding, which is a real art, but as an amateur I have to weld it as best I can and compensate by machining afterward.
Was considering one of those Chinese 4ths available on ebay. Not sure if I could ever be happy with one of those after seeing this. Thank you!
The Chinese 4th axis units aren't necessarily bad, depending on what you want to use it for. For some woodworking applications I think they would be adequate, but they don't have a very large reduction ratio (typically 6:1) so that gives higher speed but lower precision and holding torque vs. the 45:1 reduction that this gearbox has. I don't think those units would be usable for most metalworking applications.
I found these harmonic drives on ebay and purchased one. Going to try and build something like you did only I plan to use a nema 23 Clearpath motor. Thanks for the inspiration!
Nice job, I would add some constructive advise to you. Although as you stated your hobbyist machinist a small say 3" face mill would be a good addition to your tooling. All those passes you made on the bottom of stepper housing could have been completed in 2-3 passes as opposed to god knows how many with that, I guessing 1/2" end mill. Advantages would be considerably less time and more importantly less heat generated and better surface finish. I especially liked the spline you added that will pay off big time in future setups. I enjoyed your presentation and attention to detail good luck with your new 4th axis. But get a small face mill !! They are all over Flea bay just make sure that the inserts are common and still available. Some of the tooling seems like a good buy but sometimes you get it only to find the inserts are no longer available.
Agreed, and after this project I bought a 50mm indexable shell mill. I haven't tried it yet, except for a quick test, but I think it would have saved a lot of time.
thanks for your good humor , great video !!!
Very very nice Iran 👍
Using flat head bolts to hold the parts of the box together would have resulted in no warping and probably would have been faster and easier than welding. 1/4" or 3/8ths bolts with locktite would have provided all the strength and rigidity you would need to match the rigidity of the harmonic drive, stepper and chuck which, after all, you assembled with adapters made from aluminum. This box would probably support a car and with the fussing to get things square again after welding it probably isn't worth it.
Excellent jobs
Magnificent. I know a Harmonic Drive is almost the only way to go for 4th axis. I only have one question. How well does the 20 size HD holding? Is it stiff enough or would you recommend a bigger size, like 25?
My CNC mill is same as yours (different brand Optimum BF20) and I'll use the same 100mm size chuck.
Thanks.
Thanks, and to be clear it's a Harmonic Drive brand gearbox but internally it's a low-backlash planetary gear train not a strain-wave gear (which is often inaccurately called a "harmonic drive"). I've never had any problem with the holding torque, but I only do light machining of soft materials so there is very little cutting force. For wood and light cuts in aluminum I think it's fine, but if I were to move it to my milling machine to cut steel I'd probably take light cuts, no heavy hogging with roughing mills for example.
How would you use the 4th axis rotary as a cnc lathe. How will you mount the lathe bits?
Thank you for THE video and the education that comes with it I liked and I subscribed I left I shall return !
Great job...
One question... what made you change your mind about which side you'd mount the 4th axis on the Mill ?
Early in the video you talked about changing the plan for the wiring hole as you'd prefer the axis on the left side of the table and the wire coming out of the back side but actually made it to original plan.
Nice job...can you please tell me what post-processor do you use for the A axis?
Hi Jay I have the same controller and just wondering how you calibrated the 4th axis thank you
I'm making this comment at the point where you were discussing the welding of the plates on the bottom and end. It seems that heat is necessary but that it is a necessary evil for what it does to the metal as warping. Then requiring the added work to shape and trim each surface flat and square in relation to all the other surfaces. It is obvious that doing this is necessary to have a precision tool in the end.Somewhere in this process I noticed a shot of your machine that you've been using to do the lathe work, but later I had this thought. I'm interested to know if I caught a glimpse of, and do you have combination vertical mill over a lathe? I've never used a machine like that, but if you do doesn't it provide the ability to accomplish what a separate 4th axis unit accomplishes? But then I thought, maybe you wanted to have a separate unit to use in various machines (like the CNC I saw at one point). Bottom line is, what are your thoughts on having a combination unit of mill over lathe rather than separate? Then add the possibility of having it be to the level of making it automated like a CNC. Additional questions: 1. What is the model names of the mill and or lathe you have and use? 2. What CNC table did you show in your videos? Very nice video for many reasons. Roger
Great video thanks, I'm new to machining but at 5.20 when milling the base plate, wouldn't a fly cutter be better? Sorry if stupid question, Cheers
No need to reply, You answered this on another comment. Thanks
I enjoyed watching both parts of this build. Just wondering if you had bolted the plate down before welding and then let it cool before unbolting it, would it have minimized the curl? And your style of work and the guitar got a sub from me...
Glad you enjoyed it. The distortion from welding stresses cannot be eliminated completely by any ordinary means, but It is certainly possible that bolting down the plate before welding would have reduced the curl and I think that would have been a good idea.
Well done sir
You weld good
is the harmonic gearbox rigid enough to machine steel parts? Planned to make a simular one.
any comment will be appreciated, nice job by the way.
Good video. Can you please tell me how much torque do you get by using the stepper motor and the harmonic drive?
I have not yet measured the holding torque but I plan to do so. The theoretical torque is the holding torque of the stepper motor multiplied by the 45:1 gear ratio. This stepper is rated for 2.0 N-m at a drive current of 3A, so theoretically the output holding torque would be 90 N-m. The torque is less when the stepper is rotating, and drops off as the speed increases according to the torque curve of the stepper. I don't have that documentation for this exact motor but I expect it is typical for steppers of this size.
Thank you so much , I learned perfect enough.
Try climb milling , run the machined part the other way. It will give you a better finish , and require Less cutting force
Helloo,
Material Diameter: 70 mm , Length : 145 mm ,
Step Motor : 1.8 Degrees , 4.9A ,15.87 W , 200 Step
Reduction Gear : 140 revolution/min , [ 1/10 ]
Please help me ? , I did as you showed but I could not reach the result..I should calculate StepsPer , Velocity , Accerlation ..
When I write the values obtained as a result of the calculations we made with you, when I make the material take a full tour, it does not come back to the point where it started.
you are very through with the build and fantastic explanation.After welding why did you not relive the welding stress by heating the entire bracket and cooling slowly
Thanks, others have also suggested annealing and I think it would have been a good idea. I don't think it would have greatly reduced the distortion but I expect it would have helped.
Thanks for the reply, I saw that you have heated to 500F to burn off oil before powder coating. That temp is not high enough for annealing but wondering if tolerances have changed after heating and cooling.
I did not detect any dimensional changes after the heating and cooling.
That is either an amazing root cellar or the telli tubbies are living in your backyard. Did you construct it?
Hello how are you? What cutting oil do you use? excellent work
Thank you
Thanks for the quick reply!
works well for working with stainless steels?
I have not tried it on stainless but I expect it would work fine.
Perfect !! Thank you very much, I send you greetings from Uruguay !! I follow you from your channel
5:29 wouldn't a face mill be better for that task? I'm just slowly getting into machining (my two face mills for my mini CNC are still on the way to me)
The usual choice would be a fly cutter, although it may present vibration issues on a lightweight mill like mine and would need very light cuts so it may or may not be faster. On a heavier mill a fly cutter is definitely preferable.
@@BrainRight I have the smaller brother of this machine, I'll receive the face mills within this week. I have converted mine to CNC, I feel like the smaller version of it is very difficult to handle without CNC (=constant feed rates with all axis). I have the xx18 of this machine (you're one is the xx25) how do you feel about your milling machine overall?
I asked the original manufacturer in china and they advised the xx32 version.
Will the runout really matter? Is there a way to cerrect it? I wouldnt want to have runout, so i want to know if it is correctable.
It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. For example if I were using it to make wooden chess pieces, I wouldn't even bother measuring the runout because it wouldn't be important. If I were using it to cut gears, it could matter a lot. This is similar to runout on a lathe and there are ways to reduce it, such as regrinding the chuck jaws, but it's not worth the trouble for my needs.
I thought you said you were going to exit the power cables to the rear of the unit with chuck facing to the right ? at 13:45 I hear you saying the wires were exiting from the other side I guess it doesn't matter which side but wouldn't it have been better on the other side ?
Yes I changed my mind about that, just personal preference and no real mechanical advantage either way.
Get your self a cup wheel and make a arbor for it and grind the flat surface ,you will not believe what you can do with it.
I expect it would produce a good result but I hesitate to use any abrasive products on the mill. Maybe that's just me being too cautious about it, but I just worry about introducing abrasive grit into the machine. I am shopping for a surface grinder though!
great job!
Thanks Stephen.
thanks a lot, I learned something so useful
Great job. How do you find time?
Thanks. Often I don't find the time, and in fact I've been tied up with family matters for a while now. I hope to get back to doing shop projects soon.
i have to say.. its a nice work. do hawe som price on that..
Nice vid and nice song ;) Good job
I didn't see the point in shaping the mounting flanges to fit the tubing corners.
Why don't you grind the surface for more accuracy?
Like me, you need to buy or make a fly cutter. Great job!
I have some fly cutters and probably should have used one on this project, but I didn't anticipate that flattening the surfaces would take so many passes. At least it gave me a chance to add in a little guitar music. :-)
:-)
shorter stitch welds would have caused less distortion - whilst even heating may have relieved it too
Yes that would have greatly reduced the distortion, but I was trying to seal up the seams so they wouldn't accumulate oil in between the housing and base plate. As I found when preparing it for powder coating, that didn't really work and oil seeped in anyway. Next time I'd use shorter welds and just expect some oil intrusion.
But I guess you would have still milled off the back regardless lol
Can I ask you why do you not air cool your work when you are cutting? I helps with the warping do to heat.
It's a good idea but first I want to make a better enclosure to keep from blowing chips around the shop. I also make guitars, and metal chips aren't kind to spruce!
link of part 1 video . please.
Sure no problem, I added a link to the full 4th axis project playlist in the description of each video in this series: th-cam.com/play/PL87zHuZbC0ec7DQ-YQjLNBppGahbjjEx2.html
Great job! That looks like that will really come in handy. I'm jealous... wish I had one! Hey, how do you like that PM-25MV that you have? Does that have a brushless motor in it?
Thanks. So far I'm very happy with the PM-25MV and it has exceeded my expectations. That's not to say I wouldn't like a Bridgeport, as this is nowhere near as large or rigid, but it's great for a mill that I can move around (sort of) easily and fit in a corner of my shop. It has two speed ranges selected by moving the drive belt, which takes about a minute, and the brushless motor has a variable-speed drive that I really like.
Hi! Very good!
Thanks for watching.
Very very cool, good Job. But the hair cut is a NO NO 😘
Perhaps riveting would work better another time since it might cause less distortion than welding?
Using rivets or other fasteners such as bolts would be a tradeoff, definitely easier but probably less rigid than welded joints. I expect it would work fine if it were used for light cuts in soft materials on a CNC router, whereas rigidity would be more of a concern with heavy cuts in steel on a milling machine. It still might work fine in that case, but my lightweight mill is already limited in rigidity so anything I can do to make things beefier is a plus for me.
BrainRight Rivets seem to have worked OK for SS Great Britain (now drydocked where she was built in Bristol UK sometime in the 1840s)
Fly cutter? Ever used one?
Yup, and it would have been a good idea on this project. Honestly it had been so long that I forgot I had a set of them stashed away in a drawer.
You are amazing
good wor i like it.
SUPER JOB THINK YOU
Where in the USA do you live? Very nicely done video. Line your guitar music as well.
Thanks Greg, glad you enjoyed it. I live in Michigan, near Grand Rapids.
2 things, 1 face mill cutter, and bolts and nuts instead of weld.
Definitely yes on the face mill cutter, or a fly cutter, or pretty much anything bigger than what I had on hand. Bolts and nuts would be a tradeoff, easier to assemble but probably not as rigid. That's not to say I actually need so much rigidity, but this thing is very solid.
great greaaaaat
3 thou run out on chuck is trash. I'd go with aligning that better or go with a collet or 5c chuck