As always you are spot on, only people with experience with real world EV driving and charging should be allowed to make decisions about electric motorcycles… there is zero point to any vehicle without DC3 fast charging and they should be working on even faster charging. Level 2 charging is like going back to 2011 Nissan Leaf and paying a premium for a useless car. There’s an opening in engineering and marketing at Livewire I’m applying for the marketing job your videos are going to be a huge help to me if I get the job.
@Jack Reynolds Thanks for taking the time to present your case to include level 3 DC charging capabilities on all LiveWire emcs. I think you make a compelling case. Good luck with your input to LiveWire. Since TH-cam is an audio and visual experience, consider including one more slide at the end of your video with some bullet points to highlight what you are asking viewers to do, namely: 1) let us know whether or not you're currently an electric vehicle owner, 2) what does charging mean to you, 3) is DC charging important to you? So... 1) I am not a current ev owner, but I am a current and long time mc rider. My next mc will be an emc, probably within the next 2 years. 2) reliable and convenient fast charging infrastructure will be critical to break the world's addiction to oil. 3) Yes. Although I have a garage and could plug in overnight, I would like the option to take extended weekend rides (over 50 miles each way) on an emc. I would appreciate the convenience of fast charging and a Tesla supercharger trip planner.
I appreciate your feedback about my video. I’m going to take your suggestion about a summary slide at the end. I didn’t really intend to start a TH-cam channel. My first video was a response to a podcast that Jay Leno was on where he said, “You can’t use an electric motorcycle to ride around all day.” This was my response to Jay: th-cam.com/video/qok1OB0rYA4/w-d-xo.html Many people watched it and I got lots of feedback saying I should do more videos. My wife got me a GoPro over the weekend and I’m even going to do some riding videos! Thanks again for your suggestions.
I have a first strike Livewire. It replaced a series of five Sportsters that I had ridden locally as well as cross country at times. I bought the Livewire with the idea that it was ahead of its time, but the CCS charging network would grow into it. It's been well over two years now and the network still does not inspire my confidence due to availability and unreliability. I hope Tesla opens up the North American superchargers. I also own a Tesla and know what a reliable DC charging network can do for usability. DC fast charging is a must for a motorcycle. This would fulfill my dream of a true ride anywhere cross country electric motorcycle. The motorcycle I was buying in my heart. Anything less is a scooter.
Elon announced on May 10 that the supercharger Netwerk will be outfitted with CCS Chargers. I agree with everything you said about the current charging network
The engineering and strategy of the Tesla chargers is just next level. Next level. So, this makes it easy for everyone else. The best approach for any other charger network is simple: Copy Tesla. No need for any meetings or further discussion, just copy Tesla. There you go . . .
You are absolutely right. The entire Tesla Supercharger methodology is completely different than DC Fast chargering. It shocks me that DC Fast is so bad. They could have just copied Tesla. When Tesla goes CCS compatible in the USA, they will completely dominate fast charging…
Great review of pro's & Cons of Charging Infrastrucure. My main gripe is that Bike Manufacturers need to wake up, DC Rapid Charging is not an extra accessory but essential to making EV's viable! Imagine Electric Cars and Tesla without DC Charging? EV's would still be where they were 15 yrs ago!! Reliable efficient Ultra Rapid Charging is the key to a viable future for EV's, God knows what they were thinking of not incl it as standard on the Del Mar? Madness.
Great Video, Your spot on with this. I am thinking of purchasing a LiveWire one. I think it would be great if they released some kind of line of extended batteries that you could add to the bike if you wanted to take a long trip. Maybe in some sidebags. Love the Video keep up the good work…
I own a live wire one now for over a year and love it. Your story here is very informative, and very true. As usual our great government has got involved and is screwing this all up. Thank you Musk for working to save this tragic trillion dollar government screw up
I don't drive an electric motorcycle, but my preferred brand name is Harley-Davidson. I follow the evolution of electric motorcycles because I'm interested in buying one someday. My requirements for a purchase are: being able to "refuel" quickly, even more than the driving distance of the battery. Which is also important when one wants to be able to tour with the "combustion engine friends". So in short: I think stopping for 25 minutes or less to refuel is necessary to appeal to a wider audience, probably require a loading level 4 or something? Because of this I will have to wait a bit before I look for the purchase of an electric motorcycle.
This was very insightful is this being rolled out worldwide in my case UK? Im a aspiring live wire owner and have my eyes on the del mar which I understand have level 2 charging with charge time 78mins but how will live wire change the charge ports to level 2 to current live wire owners with level 2 ports?
Totally agree with what your saying. By this time next year, I'm hoping to have sold all my gas bikes for a Zero SR/S or Livewire. My question has to do with the Zero, doesn't it now have DC fast charging as an option? Really leaning towards the Zero as my future electric bike.
@@freedomiseverything I am deciding between Energica and LiveWire One right now myself. What leans me towards the LiveWire is the helical gear (less sound). I have several high powered electric skateboards (60+ MPH), and I like my helical gear driven board much better than my straight cut board due to less noise and better mechanics with how the teeth interact (I like my direct drive boards the best due to the silence). I also like that the LiveWire seems to have a better battery design for cooling. The way the cells are structured, how air can travel, how the cells have contact points that can transfer heat. I also appreciate that the LiveWire allows maximum power even when the battery charge is low. I dislike that Zero and Energica start to throttle down the power as the battery % drops. I like Energica because it has a slow forward and slow reverse feature, and I worry that I might have difficulty moving the LiveWire in those scenarios (up a driveway, etc.). I also like that Energica has a good community and company behind it that is willing to go the extra mile to help their customers if something breaks down. I also like that there is Level 2 charging, even though it is only 3 kwh, it is better than nothing. So far this is what I have so far, and I am trying to come up with other differences to help me decide between the two.
Current electric vehicle owner here. Looking to get into electric motorcycles as well. I think you had a lot of logical points, however, you missed one. The one you missed was kind of interesting because you hit all the other elements around it, but you came up with the wrong conclusion. The conclusion you came up with about the government spending money to put chargers in low income neighborhoods misunderstands low income neighborhoods are Located. A lot of them are in and around urban areas. These are the same areas you ironically advocated should have more level three charging. The issue is one of chicken or egg if there are no charging stations who would buy electric vehicle, but if there are no vehicles who wants to build charging stations? Placing even charging stations in reach of many more people we open up the market for electric vehicles and the cycle grows for everybody. Also, just as a point of order, it isn’t really a Biden administration issue. Congress has the power of the purse, not the president. It is more of a Pelosi issue. Sure Biden might sign off on it and he might hold the hearings to get some publicity, but ultimately he can’t sign something that doesn’t come to his desk.
DC not important. DC is critical for Del Mar success! Shorter range is no problem when you have public DC. Great point on Del Mar. BTW: Do please do your best NOT to denigrate the growth of Electrify America, ChargePoint, EVgo and many others. I ride a Livewire and do 100pct of DC charging in public with the aforementioned CCS. You make a great case for DC! But to limit to Tesla DC only is disingenuous to this Del Mar thread. If I may, the competition for CCS is gasoline pumped from a gas station. To be blunt, check in with your cynicism meter before posting. We are in early days!! EVgo, CP, EA have excellent choices in very early days! With ultimate respect to you and your excellent views, you have become cynical. PlugInCharge is happening. It’s a lot more difficult being universal. Be cynical after 20 years if so. Respectfully, you are sounding angry. Like your upset with your toddler because she can’t run a 4.0 40yd dash. You need to walk before you run. Gas pumps pumping gas all work great too. Another cynical post and you’ll start to lose your growing audience. With 100 respect to you. Stick to Del Mar thank you.
Mike, you are exactly right in everything you say. Any charger is a thousand times better than a gas pump. I will take a deep breath and cool my cynicism and anger. I am still upset about General Morors crushing my EV1 twenty years ago. I will get control of my emotions so that I don’t burn the house down. You make an excellent point about the DC Fast charging being beyond important. It is as you say, “Critical.” Thanks for taking the time to engage on this very important issue.
I have recently found your videos on LiveWire 1. And, I previously had no clue about there specifications/design. And, had no interest in Harley EVs. Since learning from your videos, you have peaked my interest. My largest concern is the unreliable mess of the CCS chargers in the USA and there horrible designs. Btw, good explanation of why CCS is a horrible design compared to Tesla. I learned about the Del Mar from you. I was impressed with the design until I saw that it only had Level 2 charging. At first I thought that could not be right. And, had to double check. You are right, no Level 3 charging is a huge design mistake on Harley's part. Might as well buy a Zero Motorcycle with the same Level 2 charging. But, the Zero Motorcycles has 3rd parties that are able to plug in two plugs and/or have upgraded chargers which helps. Level 3 is the only way forward. What would really put the Del Mar in the top tier winning zone is to jump over all the other non-Tesla EVs. That would be to use the Tesla charging plug standard. Tesla has already stated that there standard is available to non-Tesla vehicles. Harley should be talking to Tesla. See this link: www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard Also there are CCS to Tesla converter plugs in case someone still would like to use CCS. No clue why, since Tesla SuperChargers are everywhere and they just simply work. I heard a story a long time ago ... When they were creating the CCS standard, Elon sent one of his engineers to the meeting. His instructions were to tell them that we already have a great standard. And, you can use it for free. They told the Tesla engineer to shut up and go sit in the back. Lost opportunity for non-Tesla vehicles!!! The CCS is a glue-together design. The Tesla plugs are smaller and a far better design. Aptera has already said they are going to be using the Tesla plug instead of CCS. More companies need to rethink what is best for users. FYI, I have been driving a Tesla model S for almost 5 years now. I also own a Zero Motorcycle from 2017. Keep up the great videos! I have learned quite a bit about the Harley EVs from you. Thank you!
If my Del Mar had level 3 capabilities it would allow me so much more freedom
As always you are spot on, only people with experience with real world EV driving and charging should be allowed to make decisions about electric motorcycles… there is zero point to any vehicle without DC3 fast charging and they should be working on even faster charging. Level 2 charging is like going back to 2011 Nissan Leaf and paying a premium for a useless car. There’s an opening in engineering and marketing at Livewire I’m applying for the marketing job your videos are going to be a huge help to me if I get the job.
@Jack Reynolds Thanks for taking the time to present your case to include level 3 DC charging capabilities on all LiveWire emcs. I think you make a compelling case. Good luck with your input to LiveWire.
Since TH-cam is an audio and visual experience, consider including one more slide at the end of your video with some bullet points to highlight what you are asking viewers to do, namely: 1) let us know whether or not you're currently an electric vehicle owner, 2) what does charging mean to you, 3) is DC charging important to you?
So... 1) I am not a current ev owner, but I am a current and long time mc rider. My next mc will be an emc, probably within the next 2 years. 2) reliable and convenient fast charging infrastructure will be critical to break the world's addiction to oil. 3) Yes. Although I have a garage and could plug in overnight, I would like the option to take extended weekend rides (over 50 miles each way) on an emc. I would appreciate the convenience of fast charging and a Tesla supercharger trip planner.
I appreciate your feedback about my video. I’m going to take your suggestion about a summary slide at the end.
I didn’t really intend to start a TH-cam channel. My first video was a response to a podcast that Jay Leno was on where he said, “You can’t use an electric motorcycle to ride around all day.” This was my response to Jay:
th-cam.com/video/qok1OB0rYA4/w-d-xo.html
Many people watched it and I got lots of feedback saying I should do more videos.
My wife got me a GoPro over the weekend and I’m even going to do some riding videos!
Thanks again for your suggestions.
If live wire fitted live wire one level 3 why did live wire fit del mar with level 2 and not level 3 like the live wire one?
I have a first strike Livewire. It replaced a series of five Sportsters that I had ridden locally as well as cross country at times. I bought the Livewire with the idea that it was ahead of its time, but the CCS charging network would grow into it. It's been well over two years now and the network still does not inspire my confidence due to availability and unreliability. I hope Tesla opens up the North American superchargers. I also own a Tesla and know what a reliable DC charging network can do for usability. DC fast charging is a must for a motorcycle. This would fulfill my dream of a true ride anywhere cross country electric motorcycle. The motorcycle I was buying in my heart. Anything less is a scooter.
Elon announced on May 10 that the supercharger Netwerk will be outfitted with CCS Chargers. I agree with everything you said about the current charging network
The engineering and strategy of the Tesla chargers is just next level. Next level. So, this makes it easy for everyone else. The best approach for any other charger network is simple: Copy Tesla. No need for any meetings or further discussion, just copy Tesla. There you go . . .
You are absolutely right. The entire Tesla Supercharger methodology is completely different than DC Fast chargering. It shocks me that DC Fast is so bad. They could have just copied Tesla. When Tesla goes CCS compatible in the USA, they will completely dominate fast charging…
Great review of pro's & Cons of Charging Infrastrucure. My main gripe is that Bike Manufacturers need to wake up, DC Rapid Charging is not an extra accessory but essential to making EV's viable! Imagine Electric Cars and Tesla without DC Charging? EV's would still be where they were 15 yrs ago!! Reliable efficient Ultra Rapid Charging is the key to a viable future for EV's, God knows what they were thinking of not incl it as standard on the Del Mar? Madness.
Great Video, Your spot on with this. I am thinking of purchasing a LiveWire one. I think it would be great if they released some kind of line of extended batteries that you could add to the bike if you wanted to take a long trip. Maybe in some sidebags. Love the Video keep up the good work…
I own a live wire one now for over a year and love it. Your story here is very informative, and very true. As usual our great government has got involved and is screwing this all up. Thank you Musk for working to save this tragic trillion dollar government screw up
I don't drive an electric motorcycle, but my preferred brand name is Harley-Davidson. I follow the evolution of electric motorcycles because I'm interested in buying one someday. My requirements for a purchase are: being able to "refuel" quickly, even more than the driving distance of the battery. Which is also important when one wants to be able to tour with the "combustion engine friends".
So in short: I think stopping for 25 minutes or less to refuel is necessary to appeal to a wider audience, probably require a loading level 4 or something? Because of this I will have to wait a bit before I look for the purchase of an electric motorcycle.
This was very insightful is this being rolled out worldwide in my case UK?
Im a aspiring live wire owner and have my eyes on the del mar which I understand have level 2 charging with charge time 78mins but how will live wire change the charge ports to level 2 to current live wire owners with level 2 ports?
Totally agree with what your saying. By this time next year, I'm hoping to have sold all my gas bikes for a Zero SR/S or Livewire. My question has to do with the Zero, doesn't it now have DC fast charging as an option? Really leaning towards the Zero as my future electric bike.
No DC Fast charging on Zero or Del Mar. Only DC Fast charging options are LiveWire or Energica. I test road both bikes and decided on LiveWire ONE.
@@freedomiseverything I am deciding between Energica and LiveWire One right now myself. What leans me towards the LiveWire is the helical gear (less sound). I have several high powered electric skateboards (60+ MPH), and I like my helical gear driven board much better than my straight cut board due to less noise and better mechanics with how the teeth interact (I like my direct drive boards the best due to the silence).
I also like that the LiveWire seems to have a better battery design for cooling. The way the cells are structured, how air can travel, how the cells have contact points that can transfer heat. I also appreciate that the LiveWire allows maximum power even when the battery charge is low. I dislike that Zero and Energica start to throttle down the power as the battery % drops.
I like Energica because it has a slow forward and slow reverse feature, and I worry that I might have difficulty moving the LiveWire in those scenarios (up a driveway, etc.). I also like that Energica has a good community and company behind it that is willing to go the extra mile to help their customers if something breaks down. I also like that there is Level 2 charging, even though it is only 3 kwh, it is better than nothing.
So far this is what I have so far, and I am trying to come up with other differences to help me decide between the two.
sounds like a pain in the ass
Current electric vehicle owner here. Looking to get into electric motorcycles as well. I think you had a lot of logical points, however, you missed one. The one you missed was kind of interesting because you hit all the other elements around it, but you came up with the wrong conclusion. The conclusion you came up with about the government spending money to put chargers in low income neighborhoods misunderstands low income neighborhoods are Located. A lot of them are in and around urban areas. These are the same areas you ironically advocated should have more level three charging. The issue is one of chicken or egg if there are no charging stations who would buy electric vehicle, but if there are no vehicles who wants to build charging stations? Placing even charging stations in reach of many more people we open up the market for electric vehicles and the cycle grows for everybody. Also, just as a point of order, it isn’t really a Biden administration issue. Congress has the power of the purse, not the president. It is more of a Pelosi issue. Sure Biden might sign off on it and he might hold the hearings to get some publicity, but ultimately he can’t sign something that doesn’t come to his desk.
Not a fan of equality huh? Lol
DC not important. DC is critical for Del Mar success! Shorter range is no problem when you have public DC. Great point on Del Mar.
BTW: Do please do your best NOT to denigrate the growth of Electrify America, ChargePoint, EVgo and many others. I ride a Livewire and do 100pct of DC charging in public with the aforementioned CCS. You make a great case for DC! But to limit to Tesla DC only is disingenuous to this Del Mar thread.
If I may, the competition for CCS is gasoline pumped from a gas station.
To be blunt, check in with your cynicism meter before posting. We are in early days!! EVgo, CP, EA have excellent choices in very early days! With ultimate respect to you and your excellent views, you have become cynical. PlugInCharge is happening. It’s a lot more difficult being universal. Be cynical after 20 years if so. Respectfully, you are sounding angry. Like your upset with your toddler because she can’t run a 4.0 40yd dash. You need to walk before you run. Gas pumps pumping gas all work great too. Another cynical post and you’ll start to lose your growing audience. With 100 respect to you. Stick to Del Mar thank you.
Mike, you are exactly right in everything you say. Any charger is a thousand times better than a gas pump.
I will take a deep breath and cool my cynicism and anger. I am still upset about General Morors crushing my EV1 twenty years ago. I will get control of my emotions so that I don’t burn the house down.
You make an excellent point about the DC Fast charging being beyond important. It is as you say, “Critical.”
Thanks for taking the time to engage on this very important issue.
I have recently found your videos on LiveWire 1. And, I previously had no clue about there specifications/design. And, had no interest in Harley EVs. Since learning from your videos, you have peaked my interest. My largest concern is the unreliable mess of the CCS chargers in the USA and there horrible designs. Btw, good explanation of why CCS is a horrible design compared to Tesla.
I learned about the Del Mar from you. I was impressed with the design until I saw that it only had Level 2 charging. At first I thought that could not be right. And, had to double check. You are right, no Level 3 charging is a huge design mistake on Harley's part. Might as well buy a Zero Motorcycle with the same Level 2 charging. But, the Zero Motorcycles has 3rd parties that are able to plug in two plugs and/or have upgraded chargers which helps. Level 3 is the only way forward.
What would really put the Del Mar in the top tier winning zone is to jump over all the other non-Tesla EVs. That would be to use the Tesla charging plug standard. Tesla has already stated that there standard is available to non-Tesla vehicles. Harley should be talking to Tesla. See this link:
www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard
Also there are CCS to Tesla converter plugs in case someone still would like to use CCS. No clue why, since Tesla SuperChargers are everywhere and they just simply work.
I heard a story a long time ago ... When they were creating the CCS standard, Elon sent one of his engineers to the meeting. His instructions were to tell them that we already have a great standard. And, you can use it for free. They told the Tesla engineer to shut up and go sit in the back. Lost opportunity for non-Tesla vehicles!!!
The CCS is a glue-together design. The Tesla plugs are smaller and a far better design. Aptera has already said they are going to be using the Tesla plug instead of CCS. More companies need to rethink what is best for users.
FYI, I have been driving a Tesla model S for almost 5 years now. I also own a Zero Motorcycle from 2017.
Keep up the great videos! I have learned quite a bit about the Harley EVs from you. Thank you!
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