Production When Transitioning From Conventional Agriculture to Permaculture
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 มี.ค. 2021
- Students of Geoff’s Online Permaculture Design Course have question-and-answer sessions where Geoff fields a number of questions every week and answers them via videos. This question was pulled from the 2021 collection. For more Q&A insights, check out Geoff’s Online Permaculture Design Certificate (PDC) course www.discoverpermaculture.com/.... Or, if you’re not ready to enroll, but prefer to see more, consider taking the free Masterclass for an in-depth dive into all things permaculture www.discoverpermaculture.com/...
Question
Are there studies analysing the total system accounting during the period of transition from conventional methods to permaculture methods as shown in the 1.5 animation? I've seen the white paper from Rodale on their regenerative model compared to "traditional" farming but that presents more of a before and after, not a presentation of the transition itself.
Key Takeaways
It is a good idea to become comfortable with the fact that you are always studying and refining healthy systems. The studies will never finish. For a collection of transition data, we’d have to pick a specific facet: a large cattle farm, a square-meter of balcony garden, an aquaculture pond. But, of course, this is only part of a permaculture system. Consequently, in large systems, the transition could be quite difficult to quantify.
The location would also be very important. Efficiency is much higher in urban agriculture and perimeter urban agriculture. Beyond that, there are large blocks of land that might work for grazing pasture and forest but also a lot of that land, due to things like slope, simply works better as wildlands.
We have to think of efficiency as idea that accounts for the amount of work over production time.
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About Geoff:
Geoff is a world-renowned permaculture consultant, designer, and teacher that has established demonstration sites that function as education centers in all the world's major climates. Geoff has dedicated his life to spreading permaculture design across the globe and inspiring people to take care of the earth, each other, and to return the surplus.
About Permaculture:
Permaculture integrates land, resources, people and the environment through mutually beneficial synergies - imitating the no waste, closed loop systems seen in diverse natural systems. Permaculture applies holistic solutions that are applicable in rural and urban contexts and at any scale. It is a multidisciplinary toolbox including agriculture, water harvesting and hydrology, energy, natural building, forestry, waste management, animal systems, aquaculture, appropriate technology, economics and community development.
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Geoff's answers surprise me and make me think. So many components go into the change: time, money, distance from resources, landscape, climate, patterns in the land, and the human elements of knowledge and physical energy!
and human willingness especially. Groups like W.W.O.O.F. can be a great way to help the change/transition
Thank you so much for your content! Please keep putting it out there for us who can't yet afford to take the PDC (as much as we wish we did!). Your teachings are changing lives for the better. You have definitely changed mine and i am eternally grateful! Peace, love and permaculture!
Where there's a will, there's a way, and this way has its merits, but even better than this more lab/theoretical permaculture learning is learning through experience, you know? Hope your inability to afford doesn't prevent you from doing good permaculture ways, right
During the periods of industrialization and mechanization, people migrated to the current population centers looking for those factory jobs. Now that there is a trend to de-industrialization, the ideal thing for people to do is to reverse migrate, back out to the rural areas. Conversion of range lands to forestry and silvopasture, and building the housing for those people leaving the urban centers in and around that reclaimed range land seems like a good idea to me.
Right on Jason
Why can’t very large cattle stations be converted to a permaculture system? An improved energy audit is better than no change at all, is it not?
Thanks...Geoff...very Interesting 🌎
Thank you.
Looking at satellite images of a metropolis shows a clear land pattern that would dictate any transition pattern. John Michael Greer speculates that many suburban areas may reclaim parking lots and road medians as animal forage systems and garages converted into stables, workshops, living space, etc. Intensive systems can meet most of our calorie needs. I live in a few blocks of the original suburbs of my town and many of us have a quarter acre or more. These combined are quite effective transition epicenters. There are coops in the PNW of the US and in Canada where one person started to develop their systems and neighbors followed suit. Some tool down fences to integrate the space, some provide to the diversity of the internal food economy. Sky is the limit!
Thanks for this Geoff. Just started a project on a 1500 m2 bit of land in South france, plenty of fruit trees here already..i find all your stuff is so useful and in harmony with everything. You are the logician of nature, permaculture and apparently even agriculture here which surprises me! Yeah you made that question look dumb.. How long is an infinite piece of string?!
Où êtes-vous installé ? =)
Nous envisageons de quitter la Provence et faire un beau projet incluant permaculture dans les Cevennes ^^
Hi Geoff,
Tanks a lot for all the education and inspiration work. It just keep on giving...
One thing i always observe in permaculture examples (including my own) is that we are good designing beautiful places, creating soil, managing water, growing forest, growing fruit, and veggie greens, even small meat systems (chikens, ducks, etc.), Etc. But we usually just put away one big part of agriculture, the part that originated civilizations, and that feeds us all still today: grains. Agriculture was the domestication and use of weed grains for humans and catle. For animal feed, for bread, pasta, etc.
even permaculture farms dont do it, and depend on big industrial agro business to satisfy their needs.
Without grasses, and their grains, its dificult to produce meat, including our own.
Other part of agriculture that usually we left behind is...oils. vegetables oil. From seeds and fruits.
Also usually left behind is wood prodution (even considering we do creat forest) fuel prodution, salts, sugars...
Usually with are bad with anything that envolves processing...
How can we integrate grains and oils prodution in a policulture system? In an eco and pratical and viable (including economic viability) way...
Can you show and or talk a bit on how can permaculture deal with those subjects? In the small contex of a family permaculture homestead as well as in the big picture...humanity...
Tanks a lot.
I live in Southeast Asia and I'm currently working on our project creating suburban survival food forest, which mainly grow calorie crops.
Our country's main staple crop, rice, need a lot of water to produce decently, so it's not a smart choice to grow in our area.
Our strategy is to make Sweet Potato and Cassava as our main crop, since it produce both edible tuber (which has decent amount of calories) and leafy green (which has decent amount of protein). We don't need to spare some spaces to grow leafy greens like brassica or lettuce since we have Sweet Potato and Cassava leaves.
We also choose plantain, breadfruit, malanga, dioscorea and porang as another source of calories; perennial legumes like pigeon pea and other locally grown legume crops as protein source; and also sugarcane, herbs and spices for seasonings.
There's also Three Sister (Corn, Bean, Squash) that we never tried before but we would like to add to our system after some trial and error.
As for oil crops, we choose coconut and possibly avocado (we most likely treat avocado as fruit crop, though)
For wood production, we could use legumes like Samanea Saman (plus sweet pods as bonus), Adenanthera Pavonina, Albizzia Chinensis. Coconut palm can also be cut down for wood if it gets too high.
@@ShirakawaHakase good work. Tanks for sharing
Geoff, I guess it's conceivable that if you restored areas far from current habitation to 'fertility', you might see human populations return there, creating a 'local market' for production. Taking the Scottish Highlands, for example, I've seen many ruins of abandoned settlements in the wilderness, so maybe one feasible solution is planning for human migration (of sensible populations) into areas as the permaculture solution develops? Maybe subarctic/arctic areas are too cold for permaculture and thus will be forever wildernesses, but perhaps plenty of current desert areas might not be deserts, rather mid-latitude/subtropical settlements with a bit of permaculture design?
I understand the faraway argument, but ain't fertilizers way more energy intensive than transport? Like 10:1 or something ridiculous, mainly because fertilizers for conventional farming is made from fossil fuels and require a huge amount of energy to run the process (and then be transported). Meaning it is always worthwhile to move towards permaculture if faraway, if only to break up the food deserts.
Most are made from the byproducts of energy generation and from making other products. Fossil fuels again blowing the doors off the eco-techs.
Transition...has to do with sociocultural values & beliefs besides agro Ecological considerations 🌎
This comment is out of topic. Oh, I adore the bamboo backdrop of this video!
Bamboo in a light breeze is one of the most calming things to see
@@williamhad So true! Indeed, it's one of the best feelings one can ever have!
Gabe Brown
In my view, we need to look at cases in transitioning from conventional to permaculture. Cases vary from due to various factors. And such unique peculiarity of these cases, in my mind, can contribute to our much better understanding of how the transitioning happens.
Transitioning is not a straightforward methodology. While we have a goal to achieve in the end, methods can be twicked as the process proceeds -- a fine-tuning so to speak -- as we learn how the systems responds to the pressures during transitioning.
And since we look at cases, it is highly encouraged to gather pertinent notes and observations that can then be reviewed in retrospect. In comparing one case to the other, we may see similarities and differences that, in the end, contributed to either success (or failure) of the transitioning process.
Have you had your coffee already? Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines!
And what do you mean by "conventional"? Wouldn'that be contextual? Jerk.
@@lesliekendall2206 They don't care, they would rather people starve and be stuck in the dark ages in terms of food.
There will be NO major transition, they need to feed people, and they have found a way to produce more food on less land why would they go backwards.
@@matthewfarrell317 Yes. It's a form of gardening, nothing more. It has it's plusses like his Greening the Desert but it's in no way self-sustaining. And it's only valuable on a local level. And don't forget, they're "saving the planet". 🙄
@@lesliekendall2206 Conventional (i.e., monocultural) farming systems. The proposed alternative to monocultural farming system is permaculture. And that is what proponents intends to transition into.
Large cities have to be slowly be drained of people.
The industrial world should have immediately begun to celebrate beginning to get enough fertilizer into the air to universal your methods without starting an ice age as soon as that was achieved, buying us an enormous enlargement of terrestrial history. Instead they waited until lots more was up there, and taught people to say "it's not fertilizer, it's pollution, wah wah", and do nothing.
More and smaller farms. Let's get those food-miles down.
Food-miles? Lol nothing wrong with them, only the numpties who think that climate change is going to "end the world" worry about such nonsense. Small and large farms are needed.
@@matthewfarrell317 forget climate change, how about just using less resources. That saves money. Also having super large supply lines, like how everyone in the US depends upon California, is actually a dangerous strategy that could, with the help of natural disasters, cause famine to occur.
Stoned Ape Farmer! Love the name. Long live Terence
@@culbinator Exactly! And thanks! Long live, indeed!
Right, and many more benefits than just food miles when reducing farm size. Most importantly including healthier and sustainable soil and watersheds, and then increased biodiversity with more ecologically sane food growing methods, right?
Going forward we must go small and local. Peeled garlic from China is simply a crime.
Says who, you? The majority don't care as long as they have the food they want. If you want to live a lifestyle ala 500 years in the past, don't try and force others to suffer as well.
@@matthewfarrell317 Yes I agree the majority don't care, my comment was for those who do. And I'm forcing no one. By the way it seems like your not familiar with nor care about permaculture. What are you doing here in this channel anyways?
I thought this was worthwhile and very good podcast from DGR, about re-localizing of food
th-cam.com/video/s3B9a8pnis0/w-d-xo.html
@Unmutual likewise