Why 30fps Is GREAT On Steam Deck
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Valve's Steam Deck has a wonderful 30fps frame limiter, and it proves that smooth frame pacing is always better than higher framerates. I tested Cyberpunk 2077 and Borderlands 3 to show you the difference.
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It also bears repeating that content looks WAY better on Deck's 7" screen than watching a compressed TH-cam video on a large screen!
Yes
Hello Jason, nice to meet you :D
Also from my experience I dont notice low framerates on smaller displays as much as on 24+ inch monitors. 30 fps is basically unplayable for me on my pc but when playing on my PS vita 30 fps looks much smoother just because the screen is much smaller.
@@redotix9952 I feel the same way.
'Bad frame pacing' caused by a fluctuating frame rate w/ v-sync on literally would not be an issue if Valve had a) allowed users to turn off the culprit v-sync (would result in screen tearing above 60 FPS), or b) implemented AMD FreeSync (would eliminate both stutter below 60 FPS & tearing above). I suspect the reason Valve didn't bother is because it prefers to incentivise users to cap the FPS rather than constantly pushing the system to its max & draining the battery quicker.
I do see your point! However, as I mentioned, my experience is that Gamescope's frame limiter is EVEN BETTER than most in-game limiters. So regardless of the FreeSync argument, Valve is doing something very right here.
@@LinuxForEveryone Oh yeah I have no doubt that Valve's compositor is much better than what's provided by in-engine capping solutions, I merely mean to express even extra flexibility would be appreciated for those of us carrying around an external battery or something. I see that Gamescope also offers an impressive array of upscaling algorithms, from nearest neighbour to AMD FSR, which I'm really excited about because I've always hated the blurry look of industry standard bilinear interpolation.
Did you hear Gabe's comment about the most expensive Deck SKU being the most popular one? He said pretty much point blank that Valve would look at higher-end offerings now. Would be AMAZING to get Deck in an OLED model with a higher capacity battery.
@@LinuxForEveryone Oh yeah I listened to that. I personally reserved the $400 model because I'm fine w/ microSD or upgrading the M.2-2230 down the line, but I'd seriously consider upgrading to a better battery, ~1TB OLED model for $800+ especially if it did support variable refresh rate.
Wayland doesn't support turning off its v-sync yet. Last I heard its being worked on.
Frame pacing has always been more important than frames per second
Anyone who does read this
Try to make it so your res is 600p or 616p resolution
Using that you can barely see any difference in image quality and I mean barely.
And this does result in a frame boost and battery boost in the worst case sectarian such as horizon zero dawn from the phawks
It could see an improvement of around 1 hours of battery improvement
Love to see you back, at least for a bit! Hope everything okay Jason! Enjoy your deck
Hey, thanks! I've realize that doing this just for fun yields a lot more enjoyment than the pressure of doing it for an income. No pressure to make a PERFECT video for the algorithm. No pressure to have a thumbnail that takes longer than editing the video, haha.
@@LinuxForEveryone I love to hear that! Your content is always well thought and engaging, I'm happy that you continue to do it and found a way to enjoy it. Keep those videos coming boss, we'll be here waiting
Uncapped stuttering could maybe be an heat/boost problem? Lower "average" fps implies cooler chips, cooler chip gives more headroom for clocking up if needed...
It stutters because this game is insanely unoptimized. Not much you can do to fix that on a low end system like the Steam Deck.
@@coryv5679 only wait for valve to optimize it
@@coryv5679 valve already did an optimization update for elden ring so i have no doubt they'd optimize every other game that slightly struggles on the steam deck.
@@coryv5679 it's actually not an unoptimized game cyberpunk 2077 it's just optimized for the wrong thing it's optimized and based off of Nvidia gpus and a bunch of their dumb proprietary junk that they added to the game
@@MustacheMerlin interesting... that's all i can say to that megathread since im not that tech savvy.
The steam version likely has integration w/ proton, while in-game limiters have to go through the DirectX layer which probably doesn't have the tightest sync. Another reason may be the game limiter goes into a spinlock/idle pattern with the steam limiter yielding to background functions. (or vice versa). Details as they are released should prove interesting, expecially with community involvement and refinement.
Too bad 30 fps looks really weird to me. Gaming at 100+ fps and then seeing 30 fps it looks way, way less smooth. It looks odd.
>The human eye can only see 30 fps
memes start again
I hope Valve adds two features:
- 50Hz refresh rate to play at 50fps which is ever so slightly less demanding than 60 and to most people is almost indistinguishable (and if you can feel a difference then just don't use that mode)
- 40fps cap for 60Hz refresh - this gives you a "regular judder" which is a lesser evil. It's possible to play at locked 40fps at 60Hz and the brain will filter out a regular judder.
There´s even one more option that really helps on low power gpus or apus only and that´s variable refresh rate: it makes a big impact on that 30 to 60 range where many of these APUs can end up landing on performance so I recommend you explore that for an even more fluid experience. It might be a bit harder on battery but if docked I think it should be encouraged.
VRR isn't viable for handheld gaming devices because of battery life concerns.
Yeah FSR plus VRR makes docked Deck gaming very viable.
As was stated above, VRR isn't supported in any handheld pc for battery reasons (which as you wrote could not matter when plugged).
Furthermore, VRR makes a lot more sense above 60 fps where the difference between say 60 fps and 100 fps isn't as noticeable. But even with VRR, going from 30 to 60 that's half the frame time.
The point is, if it's gonna get close to 30, you might as well just get used to that and accept that 30 fps is good enough.
30 fps, when done right, is just fine.
@@lucascarracedo7421 you're missing the fact that you can run games that are giving an average FPS between 40-50fps (IE every recent AAA on High/Ultra) smoothly under VRR rather than being forced to either lock them to 30fps or accept dodgy frame timings.
Now I'm curious in seeing game performance/battery in games with in-game frame cap. If Gamescope had a granular FPS cap akin to Rivatuner I'd be sooo happy. Sometimes 40fps feels better than 30, and 48-50 can actually be good enough pre-60. I wonder if there is a technique to fake framerate of a monitor and then apply a 1/2 or 1/3 vsync on it to get diferent values. (Probably still a stuttery mess and what I say makes no sense).
Given Steam Deck is Linux and GameScope is a program you can install, it probably has an .ini somewhere you can edit and set a custom value to the fps cap.
problem is with anything other than 30 or 60fps on a 60hz screen you are confirmed to experience uneven frame times since the deck obviously doesn't have gsync or freesync built in
What a great video. We live in the U.K. so still waiting for it to arrive but just subscribed to your channel off the back of this brilliant vid. Gonna start working our way through the rest now!
Awesome demonstration of this! If it's ok, I may reach out for tips on how to best capture.
Hey dude love your channel.
@@elbarriotrucker Thanks man!
Very true. In Borderlands 3 specifically, running Low preset and 30fps cap in game and with a custom power profile (10w, 30fps) the game runs amazing and I can play it for 3 hours on battery. Not bad at all. Well done Valve. 👏
Thanks for showing us it. Capped fps matters a lot, when we are talking about 1%, 0.1% fps ;P.
That discomfort of going back and fourth makes it unplayable.
Gamescope is such awesome tech. Really like the option to set low resolutions which upscales to higher to get more fps. Works great on my Linux desktop.
Does it work under Gnome, or does it need to run as it's own compositor? I tried running it on Gnome and I get a segmentation fault.
@@vegn_brit5176 yeah, it works fine on gnome.
@@vesder819 Yes, I've got it working now on gnome. It's MangoHud that is causing the segmentation fault. If I uninstall MangoHud, gamescope works.
GameScope is just on screen display metrics and fps capping. No different than MSI RivaTunner on Windows.
@@raresmacovei8382 No, Gamescope has much more features like integrated integer scaling, integrated support for AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) and much more features.
This means you can even set games with out fsr support on a lower resolution and upscale it to a step higher resolution to get more fps. It's really great for a machine like the steamdeck.
It's also great when docked and you want to upscale your 720p game to play it on a tv.
Perfectly framepaced 30 fps with no input lag has always been fine, except for games like CoD or the new Doom games that are made to run at 60 fps.
IMO, if a game is "authored" to run at 30 fps, then higher FPS will usually result in a better experience, but 30 is perfectly fine too.
But if a game is "authored" to run at 60 fps, such as CoD or maybe Mirror's Edge Catalyst, running them at 30 fps just feels poor.
I would like to read about:
The best backpack power bank for your Steam Deck
The best pocket power bank for your Steam Deck
The best long USB cable to connect your external SDD or NVMe adapter to your Steam Deck from your pocket or backpack.
The new Steam Deck alike DYI BT and wired CONTROLLER printing the original 3D case, with original parts plus a BT board.
Watching Netflix HBO and + from Kodi on your Steam Deck / TV connected to it from Steam menu.
Watching Netflix HBO and + with Chorme/ium and Firefox shortcuts from your Steam menu.
etc.
Best power bank: I'm partial to RavPower & zendure but any brand with 𝐃𝐚𝐭𝐚 & charging passthrough (aka USB hub function) and 45w power delivery would be fine. I also like myCharge because the cable and wall prongs/adapter is built-in but I'm not sure it has enough Watts.
The best USB C cables are thunderbolt certified passive (as opposed to active) for up to 20 Gbps.
Any USB C dock should work for the desktop 🖥️ experience, though full software support will come with the official dock. As for the rest I'm not sure what you really want/mean, but 4k streaming should be supported to external displays and Bluetooth is pretty much a given.
missed ur voice alot, super excited
😊 thank you
It doesn't matter how high your frame cap is if your framerate isn't consistent. The more consistent the framerate, the better the overall experience.
i prefer unlocked over 30fps i cant play games at 30fps response time is too low not mention temporal resolution
My main problem with 30fps is that it increases input lag but decks screen seems to have a very low input input lag so 30fps is fine but if you use it on a laggy tv then you need 60fps or 120+fps to reduce the input lag but it's cool that I can use my really laggy tv that I never thought I would be able to game on for at least some older games.
How about capping at 45 fps, split the difference.
45 would be an ideal target! Interestingly, 45fps was a pre-release option in the Performance tab, but Valve patched it out before launch as it needed some work still.
30 fps isin't enough for me I usually need like 35-40
yes unlocked is always better than locked 30
The only way to archeve a "perfect smooth 30fps" on PC, is with HFR with VRR display, and then you can cap the framerate with gamescope/RTSS/graphic driver.
Because there is severe stutters even on gamescope footage.
I hope the nvidia driver adds whatever they are missing to make gamescope work. I would install it on my laptop, it really looks smooth.
I’m noticing far more chop/stutter in the Gamescope footage, like notable increments in the frame delivery, rather than uncapped running fairly smoothly. I dunno if it’s TH-cam’s trickery between compression and trying to display on my phone, but I do know that a video capture of the screen via a camera shows that solid 30fps really is good and when it’s uncapped is when it can feel really bad. I saw that with some of the Intel Xe graphics benchmarks that technically had a higher frame rate but the frame pacing was nauseating.
i think you’re just weird
Now I just wonder if racing games all about speed and precision - namely Trackmania - would be playable on 30FPS in general - there is a theory that more FPS allows for better reactions and therefore more precise driving (read: actually hitting the finish gate instead of its arch)
Testing is needed though
Imagine playing racing games on the Steam Deck...
Betah!
It's like console
30 fps on steam deck for me is jittery when moving the camera. Mouse or joystick. How do I make this smoother?
I'm in the second batch, so I hope to test SOS3.0 (great shortcut, I know) soon via USB drive on my AyaNeo.
Can't it be locked to a number between 30 and 60?with gamescope
ill be caping mine at 30 fps for all single player games and ill be using 60fps low setttings for warthunder when i get mine
Very useful video, thanks!
I found the 30fps on the right a lot worse. It's like consistent micro stutter
@Reclaimer Leviathan A Steam deck can run 3A games on the plane on battery, in which both a gaming laptop and a switch lite cannot. And you don’t like 30 fps but you would rather buy a switch lite rather than a deck? Where a switch lite is less powerful than a steam deck? Honestly you’re comment doesn’t make any sense.
Can you please tell how to run games from external harddrive connected through usb in steam on Linux. And if possible please show a graphical method rather than command line.
30 fps definitely looks smoother than other 30fps showings, might not so bad. It doesn't beat out 60fps, but seeing games like FF7 remake on ps4 look deceivingly smooth you coulda sworn it was 60fps until you saw actual 60fps on the PS5 version lol
30fps is also great on TH-cam. Older processors have trouble with 60 fps. I use a plugin called "enhanced-h264ify" to block vp9 and 60fps.
You must be joking
I know it designed for on the go use.
My main concern is docking. What monitor/TV is going to look the best? I want to show it off to my friends. Hook up 2 controllers. Play madden or 2k. Then just pack it up. Go outside. Maybe hook it up to a battery powered monitor?
Any monitor or TV should be ok. As long as you don't expect to output 1080p or higher unless it's a really light game.
@@lucascarracedo7421 so 720 should look great? Or just ok?
@@tastemyhammer2757 it's gonna have to upscale. If you're gaming it will be noticeable at 720 of course. The bigger the display, the more evident the low resolution
@@lucascarracedo7421 okay. So I'm thinking no bigger than a 32 inch. Set it to 720. Then it should look pretty good? I saw one video and they had it running on a 4k monitor. It didnt look bad from what I could tell. I hope someone does a video with different screen sizes and types soon. So I can make a decision. Thank you for your imput.
@@tastemyhammer2757 yeah maybe 32 is a good compromise. The bigger the display the more noticeable the low res it will be. But it depends on the game. A relatively simple game could run at 1080p or above without any issues whatsoever.
the right side is anything but smooth, it hitches constantly, what are you even talking about?
The deck is very good (if valve could make a box with a 6800h and a lot of fast ram yes pls) but I hope that gamescope or even the interface with scaling and power target will make it's way on more general steam (could be great for gaming on a high res monitor with toggles for fsr or even cap framerate on laptops)
Go valve, waiting for apex legends to enable EAC any day now
6800H is Zen 3+... I don't expect Valve to ever switch to it xD
@@konstantinliebich9427 Not for the deck, but for a steam box or something like that it could be pretty good with fsr2 and all
Would be enough for me at least with m.2 slots and so dimm ram slot would be nice)
@@Spyke_misc Then get a PC, I honestly don’t expect Valve to make what you are suggesting lmao.
How is input latency?
"This is my Steam Deck.
There are many others like it, but this one is mine." Full Metal Jacket 😉
I made the same reference on Twitter a few days ago! twitter.com/Linux4Everyone/status/1497284096321540097
@@LinuxForEveryone I know, I sent a GIF on twitter of Vincent D'Onofrio in the movie lol
can someone actually help me hwo can i get this limit thing on windows? is it even possible? i would love to know if there is such thing for windows players on pc
Set the display to 50hz and frames to 50fps and you will get ZERO drops
Why not cap it to 60 instead of uncapped?
Only make sense to cap your game to 60fps if it’s already hitting above 60fps consistently
@@malathomas6141 I couldn't see the frame rate on my phone what was it going up to?
@@MobileDecay on borderland 3 highest fps is was reaching uncapped was 57fps
what is gamescope
I really look forward to playing Cyberpunk 2077 on this because really all I want to do is explore night city. I hope it continues to improve because I couldn’t play it when it released 🥲 I like the theme a lot but it still has a long way to go from what we were promised and what we saw.
Use the steamdeck refresh rate unlocker you are missing that using gamescope framecap introduced intolerable 2-3 frames of lag over using 30hz aiming is awful when not changing refresh rate and using software to cap
console player: first time?
They should include the oled screen
Borderlands is unplayable unless you want to do some digging due to hard lock on a „watch monitor” mission
Yeah deck running games switch can only dream but only 100 dollars costly than standard switch. So 30fps is no big deal.
Exactly. It's damn impressive!
I hope the second iteration will have a 90Hz display or support adaptive sync so we could target 45fps in demanding games.
30 is not enough, 60 is too much.
@Reclaimer Leviathan It's the software. You have to remember none of these games were made to actually play on Linux meanwhile mobile devs are developing their games/apps natively.
@Reclaimer Leviathan Do you play AAA PC games on your mobile phone?
@Reclaimer Leviathan mobie games are 2-3 gb max in size bro pc games are 100gb 🙂
@Reclaimer Leviathan You’re phone definitely cannot run steam games at 2k60fps.
Lower the resolution > 30fps migraine
Finally an enjoyable 30fps on PC, congrats to Valve for that 👏🏻
You seem not very happy tho. Keep crying, silly kid 😂.
@ Did you soil your pants why are you so mad kid
@ No really, I'm not being sarcastic, what I'm saying is on PC, 30fps is mostly crap because inconsistent frame time while on console it looks fluid.
A good 30fps was something missing for entry level PC. Making a budget PC is now easier because you can target a 30fps experience and still having an ok experience. (It has to run SteamOS 3.0 though)
And for the Steam Deck, it was a big question I had because we know it won't handle the heaviest games at 60fps, and it will be even more true in the future, so knowing we can enjoy gaming at 30fps on it is a huge positive.
The uncapped stutter could be a wlroots issue
It isn't
@@JoshuaAshton69420 hmm. I'm experiencing the same issue with sway in cyberpunk though. Not the same issue i guess
@@erikreider We don't use the same vblank logic as sway/wlroots at all. This is just what happens without tearing unfortunately. Itd be great to plumb stuff like that into drm atomic
While I say 30fps is fine on Deck I would choose 40fps anyday
Lies 30fps never feels good all I'll take varible framate over 30 i cant play games at locked 30 feels/looks awful
Someone has the steam deck display datasheet? If it has a 40hz refresh option it would be better to sync to it for battery and pacing.
It doesn't have Variable Framerate. Is either 30 or 60 fps.
@@M-Batman VRR is another thing.
FPS and signaling Hz are different.
30fps runs at 60Hz signal.
So the display has certain capabilities depending on the TCON (timing controller) usually on the datasheet it says minimum and maximum.
40Hz exists in many LCD panels, it is used in laptops as power saving mode.
@@brunogm Regardless of what's called. The Steam It doesn't have it. Watch the Phawx Review on battery saving and you'll find everything you need to know. Lower your expectations, you're expectations are too much for 400$ device.
@@M-Batman Its Linux right so, it just a custom modeline. I just ask if anyone has the datasheet for the display?
EDID dump could help as well
Just limit to 45fps bro
720p + 60fps 👈🙌
left looks alot better most of the time.
please check cracked games! i know it is illegal but for nerds it is kinda fun to know or non Linux emulators
I hope in the future that games that are being made on PC as well as console PC gets a console version for their system. What I mean is you know how searching games that are I guess from any game that you play on PC on Steam and you plug in a controller it obviously automatically switches to the whole controller configuration scheme as in you can't like change anything what I mean is like for example Fallout or BioShock crazy games I think I'll form this PS3 Xbox 360 generation as soon as you plug a controller in Ipswich estate to controller you can still have that for me and stuff but you can't actually change it unless you disable the controller and then do it that way so what I was trying to say if there was a way where you know how consoles always up to my crazy for the best for the consoles right if PC could have that ability as well so when the future we could either the same that what God of war has done when going to walk home to PC you have have original graphical settings and then you have high and ultra right so something like that but for PC housing like if the games are going to be created on PC and also console the PC developers could actually you know put in so we could have a very low setting a low setting a medium setting there we could have a console graphical setting then we could have a high and could have a ultra right so that the console settings going to be we know was going to be summer going to be BDM and summer going to be high as summer going to be ultra right but at least then like we could actually get good optimisation because it will be on par with what the console has had at least then in the future if well people who who come from console why not staying experience and don't want to basically like you know car going around with the system or what I did have an ability to just put it on the console equivalent weight in a concert optimisation for PC and you can have fun and I will definitely hope what valve is trying to do and also what all these other handheld PC people have been trying to do for years right will trying to get the best out of what they could I maybe this will definitely give the PC or the people that want to switch from console to PC the ability to still feel at home just still feel like yeah they have their ability to actually enjoy their games even if it hard was not high enough all be that have the same capabilities of what the console the council next to them have right so in a way it will be a win-win
interesting
👍!
Jewish the games are cool the gonna run great but obviously the only problem is the game the optimisation that's it if the games are optimised for the steam day they Gainsborough one as good as they do on console but because they are just basically PC games in a handheld phone factor they're not knowing they're going to be good but not good enough FC series s had about 40 of rocks yeah and the same GPU as the theme deck the steam that had one right what I'm trying to say like it would have been like a Nintendo switch lite but just with the ability to actually change settings if need be
The Cope Deck
It's upsetting the deck can't really support 60fps without slowdown and jumping in addition to huge battery drain... By comparison the switch manages 60fps on some AAA titles and even 1080p 60fps on very select AAA games, even though they're optimized, it's still something you can't ignore 60fps beats 30fps in every way
There will be infinitely more 60 FPS experiences on Deck than Switch.
@@powerfulaura5166 I'm 100% sure they're far more 60fps games on the deck but the problem is that it significantly reduces the battery life on the more demanding titles 1hr 30min-3hr just won't cut it for a "portable" device... If I'm going to have to carry powerbanks everywhere with it, I'm better off with a more capable gaming laptop
@@deonkirk7357 you can expect 2.5 hr battery life at 60fps 540fps😀
If a PS5 can run a Game at 4k 60fps you can bet the Deck will move the same game at 720p 30fps. That future proofs the Steam Deck.... until PS5 games become so demanding that they can only run at 4k 30fps, then they will become impossible to run on the Deck (720p 15 fps?)
Bullshit. 31 fps is better.
30fps sucks, so no