Did You Know Your BALLY Pinball Machine Will TELL YOU What's Wrong With It? KISS Repair #3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
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The grand kids came over this weekend and wanted to play our Meteor. And it wouldn’t boot. The light just came on and stayed on. I’m sure this video will help me fix it. Thanks for all you do.
It happens!
A locked on LED is the hardest problem to fix. It's usually caused by battery damage or bad socket connections. Joe does the best job showing how he goes about fixing it.
Thanks again for for doing these videos and the detailed troubleshooting technics.
My son-in-laws Mata Hari is still running perfect because of your videos.
Very cool Kevin, glad you got it working reliably :)
Mata Hari labeled a spy and Executed by firing squad makes for a great pinball machine subject
Great video. Could have used it 2 weeks ago. Lol. Just put a button battery on a Bally board and had to do some research regarding how to tack on the diode. Such a great service you offer the community. Thanks again.
I showed it on a previous video where were you ? :)
I really like how you break it down and explain everything, even though you have done this many times. I watched intently because I have a Stern Galaxy MPU not booting(locked on LED) I did all what you said, still not booting. Mabe bad PIA, or one of the three transistors. The game has been fussy, sometimes booting and not not at all. Thanks Ron!
Probably something in the reset section, those transistors usually don't die, they just get damaged by the battery, if you don't have any battery damage though they're probably fine. You can swap the PIA at U10 for the one at U11 and see if you get a few flashes until it figures out there's a bad PIA now in U10.... Make sure the rom legs are clean too.
Great repair on that Bally Mpu board, its great to have oldchool flash diagnostics on it😎👍
my solution when replace the battery with a cr2032 holder is to replace R12 into a diode. works fantastic
I'll have to look into that, thanks Sam!
Broken leg repair is easy. Push a piece of wire in the socket where broken pin is, then mount chip and solder to the stub.
Saw the “KISS Repair” and thought it was Keep it Simple Stupid. Then I saw KISS!
Hahahaha
You can also get rechargeable 2032 batteries and eliminate the diode fix...
Thanks for the mpu flashes explanation detail, loved the goofy music during that section! Was that one of Kisses tunes.
No they're stuff's a little softer :)
For chips with silver legs you can just soak them in Tarnex for a couple of minutes. It is silver polish that you can find at the supermarket.
I'm gonna have to get some of that stuff....
Much faster than sanding and less likely to break legs.
Tried Tarnex recently. Ron, you don’t know what your missing! The stuff is fantastic!
Ron U do clean work.
Thank you sir
Great I had many years needed a refreshment on the flashing. I had it on the bench with +5/+12 connected got 6 flashes confused with 7th flash, now I am ok thanks.
Friend of mine has one that his dad got him years ago, spent many hours in his basement playing that.
Very cool Gary!
Hope you guys had a great 4th weekend thanks for sharing. Always love your videos. Have a great week
Thanks Mac, we appreciate it man, see you on the next one!
[5:00] A test power supply for Bally MPU of that era does not need +43avVolt to run one flicker and 7 flashes.
Pins 18 and 19 bottom left is ground
Pins 16 and 17 is +5vdc
Pin 12 is +12 volt avDCvolt
Pin 15 can use the +12volt to power a 555 astable multivibrator that pulses between 50 and 120 pulses per second. It is looking for the Zero crossing point. If the driver transistors are turned on or off while the supply is Zero it is easier on the transistor. This will allow it to initialize and you can test a little further. If it still won't give you the 7th flash check R113 and R16 they are 2K and one opens up once in a while I usually replace both with 10 K as there is no need to draw that much current for a simple little Z detector that leads to a 150K resistor.
Thank you for your correction, anything else you want to correct?
I hope you got this up and running so the people can "Rock and roll all night and party everyday". Sorry had to XD
haha The guy that owns it didn't look like much of a Rock 'n Roller but he does like him some pinball!
Reality awesome video Ron cheers for the MPU diagnosis :D
Maestro !!
Thank you Pablo!
I wanna clean battery damage all night.... And clean chip legs all day! Wait, hold up, no, I don't. I'll leave that for the experts at Joe's Classic Video Games. Thanks for filming it.
Thanks for watching Pez!
You haven't been in the gnomester's smoke shed by any chance?😂🤣
You keep on shouting you keep on shouting. Glad someone did a Kiss reference :D
Liked,, have a great week,
Thanks Rome Thing We appreciate it man!
Wow...salute to that battery..30+ years, and still has that good a charge?
Yeah pretty cool!
I have a question - not sure where to ask it. I have a The Sopranos pinball and after some 100F+ weather one of the ball detect circuits started failing. It ended up being the actual wire running from the sensor to the board in the backbox itself. Running a new wire solved the problem. The hardest part was accepting that the wire had failed. This circuit had an optical ball detect and circuits on the board etc. After testing everything else I tested continuity on the wire end-to-end and no buzz. I ran a new wire and all fine. Does this happen? How?
Hmmm.... could you tell if perhaps it was one of the contacts on one end or the other of the wire, maybe the crimp was bad or something? You wouldn't think the wire would stop working but maybe that's a thing now, I'd imagine they're all thin as hell!
@@LyonsArcade It's not impossible for the wire itself to fail, just _very_ rare. I had a CAT5 network cable fail. I never did strip the insulation to see exactly _how_ it had failed, but replacing it fixed my problem.
@@SpearM3064 a cat5 cable is typically used where it’s more likely to be moved around, kicked, rolled over by a chair, etc. so it’s more likely to fail than a wire inside a cabinet that isn’t being moved around.
hell yeah that battery is 4 months older then me love it 🤣
And still working! LOL
@@LyonsArcade old batterys never dies... removed one cell out off an Siemens Industry Pc 1975 still had juice in it 😎 ofc u cant get the same new since 20 years haha
I worked with the engineer that came up with the idea of the NiCad battery. Never thought about leakage as the batteries had a 10+ life expectancy well beyond the expected life of a pinball back in the early 1970s.
Absolutely fine..like Shania Twain 😁
IF YOU'RE NOT IN IT FOR LOVE I'M OUTTA HERE
@@LyonsArcade An old cowpoke went riding out one dark and windy day🐎
JOE CLASSIC, are the "boot Sequence" the same light code sequences for ALL various types of pinball games or they are all different light code sequences meaning flash#4 is testing XXX but in another pinball game flash#4 could be checking something other? To Clean battery acid other repair techs use "Ferric Chloride" and then use Aluminum Oxide Power. What do you think about using Ferric Chloride on pcb boards to clean off the battery acid, socket pins and chip pins that are tarnished?
The flash code is the same on any game that used this exact same board, so the first 50 or so Bally Solid State games, and the first 20 or so Stern Solid State games. I haven't used Ferric Chloride...
@@LyonsArcade thanks
Black tarnish is indicative of silver. Tin tends to grow tentacles over time, thus the need to re-solder every twenty years.
I also had a problem with one of the ROM legs breaking off. Do the newer MPUs do the same LED flashing as well? I was thinking of updating my KISS to the newer (more reliable) MPU (with ROMs already installed) rather than buying ROMS for the old board.
Yes the new MPU's do the same flash code, they basically run the same game code, and the flash test is built into the game roms. The new boards are very nice, if you are interested in doing it, go for it. We've used them in many many games, they work great and the support from Alltek is also very good.
Another great game from this era was Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom
I've never even seen one!
Only made 300 of those. The game was a dud. The backglass is one of the most famous works of art by Dave Christensen. I think more backglasses were sold than games.
DeoxIT should be your friend
o.k.
u need a fiberglass brush and an emery board nail file
If the batt is from japan you know it must be good
Wait till you see my new Japanese Solder Sucker! They make good stuff!
@@LyonsArcade the one that does not suck , or does it . same reason with old Japanese caps some over 40 years still whitin specs....
thanks for the vids
JOE, what do you mean by "zero crossing test" or what does the zero crossing mean for the solenoids because I have never heard of what is considered the zero crossing for the solenoids. Can you please explain more about the zero crossing?
Ever seen a sign wav? The AC power that comes into your house goes from 0 to +120 then back to 0 and -120 then back to zero. In north America the complete cycle from + to - happens 60 times each second. (60hz). That means the power crosses 0, 120 times every second, thus the term 0 crossing. Since the frequency or Hertz of your line power is a constant from the power company it can be used as a timer for events. The MPU turns on lamps and coils for a programmable amount of zero crossings. That's how the game can control power of coils and brightness of bulbs. It's also convenient because while the MPU can turn lights on it doesn't have to turn them off as the next zero crossing will do that.
@@areizman I'm not understanding how the MPU is testing/checking the zero crossing test for the Solenoid zero crossing test. I'm not understanding how the MPU is programmed on the amount of zero crossings to do what? like example at 20 zero crossings events turn on lamp#2 and turn on solenoid#5 and at 40 zero crossings turn on lamp#10 and turn on solenoid#7? I'm not sure why they are using the zero crossing events as the reference
@@waynegram8907 Break out a Bally MPU schematic and you can follow the circuit along. First the 60hz from the power company is a constant. That seldom varies so you can count on 120 ZC per second. Second, the 43v DC to the coils is full wave rectified meaning it pulses from 0 to +43v, 120 times a second. Those pulses are fed to a port on U10 that the CPU monitors. It makes for a nice clock. If A game programmer needs to turn on a coil in the game for 1 second he writes an instruction that counts 120ZC for the coil pull. Hope that helps.
@@areizman That Pulses that are Fed to port U10 that the CPU is monitor, What is it Called terminology name when the CPU is monitor/counting the zero crossing pulses of the 60hz line frequency? In pinball games the CPU is monitoring and counting the zero crossing events of the 60hz line frequency but what is the terminology name for doing this?
I would have used a fibre pen to clean all of the contacts on the chips and the sockets I wouldn't recommend using a file
You should definitely use a fibre pen when you do yours for sure! Thanks for watching Simon Smith
@@LyonsArcade your welcome its just I'm a electronics repairs engineer with 20 years experience
Great job on getting the board to boot up. How long normally does the board battery last? Thanks for the info on the flashes of the diode. Can not wait for the next one.
This one worked for like 35 years, LOL That little button battery, I'm not sure, but I'd expect 3 or 4 years at least.... Thanks for watching Frank, we appreciate it!
It's alive! ALIVE!!!
Back In Business!
Yep.. Ronnie made it great again 🇳🇿😁
Staying alive.. staying alive..ah ah ah ah🎼🦂🕺
what do you think of Hercules pinball that uses cue balls
I wanna get one!
when it was new it cost a dollar to play !!
Put new mpu in and soundboard. It starts up plays a medley. When I push power to start a game nothing. No flippers.
Might need to add a credit!
Hey Joe how do I add a credit? We love your videos.
After servicing the MPU board, did the +4.8vdc get any closer to +5vdc? (I suppose since it booted, nobody cares except me LOL.)
Just wondering if it would have been better to just replace the MPU board.
Why replace, when a little bit of cleaning and a new battery seems to have solved the problem?
It's pretty fun to repair them!
🤘🤘
ROCK ON BROTHER
You really should try flux, you can't sand under the componets.
After I do that, what should I do next?
@@LyonsArcade whatever you like buddy.
IT'S BROKE.