@@mattrismattwhy didn’t yoda sense jedi being murdered. Mae changing sides 5 times. Cutting the wookie fight scene. Mae is supposed to kill without a weapon but kills jedi with a weapon
@@ryanfordham9563 How do we know that Yoda didn’t sense those Jedi being murdered? Regardless, Yoda was not all-powerful or all-knowing regarding the Force. Mae - along with her sister, Osha - was severely confused and conflicted... one soul across two people certainly added to their life conundrum. It would be unwise to consider Mae's flip-flopping behavior as merely "changing sides". As shown throughout the Star Wars canon, there's so much more to these character archetypes than deeming them conclusively 'good' or 'bad'. As these characters become aware of new or significant information, major behavioral changes should be expected, like growth, regression, turning to the dark side, etc. What really matters is the grander intent of the story of Star Wars. This includes realizing each characters' place in the overall narrative and themes. What happened in _The Acolyte_ was consistent with the previous Star Wars installments. Which Wookie fight scene was cut? Have you seen it? Wouldn't such an omission be just a personal preference, not something that didn't make sense? At the end of the first episode, Qimir made the point that mere physical death would not truly defeat the Jedi. Thus, 'kill them without a weapon' became Mae's challenge. She facilitated Torbin's suicide. Ironically, it was Osha who killed Master Sol with a Force choke.
@@mattrismatt if that ever explained in the show about the one being split into two? It's mentioned and never brought up again until sol for some reason needs to prove this now at the end , but have blood samples ! Needing the twins together is irrelevant. There several story points that don't make sense, example blaming sol for the murders, doesn't work cause sol was at the Jedi temple when Trinity was killed and there were witnesses to it. When badly written sad Jedi took the poison,sol was picking back OSHA on the ice planet again witnesses the little boy she needed for some reason she really did him for. And twins just all over the place with their motivations was the biggest fail of the show! OSHA finds out her sister who she thought was dead for 16 years is killing Jedi and she's like Mae's the Jedi's problem I'm out. Had to convinced to help, then Mae my sisters alive that changes everything, then knocks her out and leave on a planet a killer , takes her clothes and cuts her hair with a saber 🤣 cus now her is only long on the sides and not on her back 🤣 but what ever ! Goes with sol and he doesn't know that's not OSHA cause the plot says so. They established they had to walk for hrs to get to the wookie , so in all that time a seasoned Jedi couldn't sense she is Mae? Writing is a hard job but these writers were terrible, now if u can look passed all of that and there is more but u don't care about it then this show good to u! Glad u liked it,for a lot of people they like it or Disney star wars has been so disappointing they didn't even tune in.
This episode is a great example of why I love this channel. Acolyte wasn’t good in most people’s eyes. Not because of politics, but because the writing was terrible!
Yes there are fans of this show. Those people may align politically or not. But the real issue comes down to terrible writing. X-men 97 and Andor are proof that good writing can save any show
Yup terrible writing ... pretty basic. Even if you were on board with the messaging it was still done horribly. Headland had to explain so many episodes.
I've been telling people variations of this: I like diversity and inclusion. I know representation matters. This show was not good. The writing and a lot of the acting sucked.
It was a bad because of politics and bad writing. Politics/ political correctness/wokeness whatever you wanna call it ruins any show. Also terrible writing with a bad plot, horrible character choices, retconning ki adi mundi, making the Jedi seem downright evil and corrupt, and apparently having Anakin not the only one born from the force.
Hating Star Wars has unfortunately become an industry. That goes for certain TH-camrs and the toxic fans. I’m an OG SW fan and I find things to enjoy in all the releases and try my best to avoid all the negativity.
That's fine to be easy to please but don't put that on everyone. Also, all things lead to the sequels anyway so what's the point? The prequels succeeded because it lead to the OT.
At this point Kathleen Kennedy can't blame the "anti woke agenda" after the disastrous box office of Indy 5, the massacre that was Willow and how poorly the last couple of years have been received. Yes she made 3 billion dollar movies but also broke the fandom hiring confrontational creators and actors that tend to clash with a lot of the fans, Rian Johnson was at war against the fans when TLJ went out and was disliked, Leslie Headland and Amandala Sternberg went against everyone who didn't like their show, yes SW has a problem with a lot of toxic fans and that's what makes obvious the need for someone at the top calling the shots and picking non confrontational people.
Just to clarify, there are a lot of toxic fans, but the creators can't just say "toxic fandom, anti woke agenda, misogynistic incels and racist fans" at the minimum percentage of criticism, as long as the people keep the criticism focused on the product and not the gender, race or color of the actor or creator.
@@owenharrison761 No we weren't. He went into it with bad faith. His entire mission was subversion and being antagonistic towards the lore and even Lucas himself. He got off easy, but I'm sure he'll improve with his "future trilogy".
I will never forget watching extras from The Hobbit The Battle of The Five Armies Blu Ray where Peter Jackson and the creq talked how it didn't turn out how they hoped for and explaining where it went wrong. Why I'm saying that?? Well because Peter Jackson is not too proud to admit his faillure, even it's not terrible movie, it's not masterpiece as LOTR Trilogy, and that's why I trust Peter Jackson, that man admits he did something wrong and that's why he has most of people's trust, and that's someting Kathleen Kennedy will never have, people's trust, because she will never admit faillure and instead she will keep blaming fans calling them names using black and female leads as a shield from terrible stories.Let's not forget that se never officially said Rian Johnson's trilogy is not happening, same as Patty Jenkins movie, same as D&D trilogy or Taika Waititi movie, she still pretends it's happening until people forget they were announced. And that's why she will never have our trust!!
Kristian harloff here is my two cents. When George Lucas sold Star wars to Disney. He said that he is turning over a treasure trove of stories to KK and Disney.The problem with star wars is Luke Skywalker. Under Disney they refused to have him as the main character and finish out his story. That was their biggest mistake.My problem is that alot of so-called content creators jump on board with that narrative about moving away from the Skywalker saga. We never got to see George Lucas final explanation about the force. Too many people are giving us their idea of what the force is. Instead of knowing George Lucas idea of what it's all about. As far as Dave filoni only works well because of George Lucas guiding him. People forget George Lucas came up with the idea of ahsoka. It was under George Lucas guidance that Dave filoni was able to shape the character. When fans was giving out some real creative criticism of why they did not like the character of Rey. A lot of big content creators was helping to push that narrative of misogynistic on anyone who dare to criticize.Thats was very real thing. Was there toxic content creators who was injecting political points of views inside the fandom. Absolutely yes. But the reason why they was able to succeed. Is because Lucas film under Kathleen Kennedy leadership refuse to give the real fandom what they wanted. Which was good stories and great characters.Now in 2024 we have gotten a show that was hell bent and totally disrespectful to the legacy of George Lucas. And they made it known to the public. I'm 50 years old all I want to see is the original sequel trilogy ideas of George Lucas. Mark Hamill is still alive and they can give us George Lucas original sequel trilogy movies. If they don't want to do it in live action. They can do it in the clone wars animation style with Mark Hamill voicing his character as old man Luke Skywalker. When Kevin Conroy passed away that made me realize we will never hear the definitive voice of Batman more. I want new leadership at lucasfilm . I want that leadership to go to George Lucas and ask him to help them to retell his original sequel trilogy movies. Star wars will never be right until they do right by the Creator and by the main character of Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker should have had a proper death in the third movie. That's how you set up a successful in Rey. One more thing that i must say. Most well-written female characters historically have been written by men who was well verse in the art of writing.
Sadly your dream will never come true. They had the chance to make that happen they even had everyone alive and they spit in our faces. Lucas should have made a clause that they had to make his 3 movies then it was all theirs
What's funny is that all of the youtube channels that were giving it bad reviews likely drove more traffic to the show with people wanted to check it out to see if it was actually that bad. If it wasn't' for them the numbers would have been even worse
@@GenghisDon1970 then you are pretending the show was actually good and was something people reviewing could get excited about. We're talking about the same bad show, if all the of channels that didn't like it didn't talk about it at all and ignored it, how exactly do you think that would help?
I know I only made it to the end by rubbernecking the whole damn thing going "it can't possibly get worse! ........can it?" And it proved it could every damn minute. By the end, I was just so shocked by how terrible it was, I was nearly speechless. It's like the anti-Star Wars, bad is good and good is bad and morality is a joke.
The Crow needed a likeable lead character. Brandon Lee’s version was a bad-ass yes, but he was likeable, he had a sense of humour and was a bit zany at times, and it worked. The flashbacks fleshed out his character before he died. This new version is covered in tattoos, has been in prison, and looks like a criminal. He’s not relatable or likeable. Mistake number one. His face paint doesn’t make him look like a tragic figure. Mistake number two. Taking too long to get to the meat and potatoes. Mistake number three. Explaining the supernatural stuff and over complicating things. Mistake number four. The Crow should have been a simple story, it’s a story that just works as intended. There was no need to reinvent the wheel.
I don't think The Mandalorian and Grogu is a "guaranteed win." It's a movie version of a TV show whose last season was poorly received. Not to mention it won't be released until May 2026, 3 years after the last season of the show. The movie could be good and still do
Agreed, the viewership fell off in Season 3. It is possible the audience , who are starting to drop off a show than can watch for free at home, will not want to pay to go out to watch the next installment .
Timestamps: Sorry for being late, I had to leave for work before the stream ended. Happy Monday Everyone! 0:00 Intro 0:38 What Happened to The Acolyte and Star Wars? 17:35 Keanu Reeves' Could Have Been in The Acolyte 33:27 Box Office Breakdown: The Crow Bombs w/Less Than $5 Million 44:00 Quentin Tarantino Refuses to Watch Toy Story 4 48:44 James Spader Returning as Ultron in the MCU 52:32 Super Chats & Outro Check out this weeks sponsors! Links are in the description. [AG1, JOYMODE, LIQUID IV, ROCKET MONEY]
As far as Acolyte goes, I feel bad for the people that loved it. I didn't want it to fail, but it was a bad show the same as Willow was bad. Yes there were woke elements but it still could have been good but they had horrible writing, characters that you couldn't really get behind and surprises that people either saw coming or weren't earned As far as Star Wars goes, it's all a mess. They supposedly had a story group led by Pablo Hidalgo that would keep everything running smooth and almost immediately chucked that concept out and let every creator do whatever the hell they wanted whether it made sense in the overall Canon or not
Like Eric Ciane from Forbes keeps pointing out, what the people who attack the fans for being bigots or sexist need to explain is why all these people who hated the Acolyte actually like Andor when that show is more diverse than the Acolyte and has more representation
It's results based. They can't make any headway attacking Andor because it was too obviously high quality and well received. But they were set up for it. Just like they were before Acolyte started. They used Acolyte actually being bad to justify their bigotry and misogyny. And piled on it with glee. Same as against The Marvels, which was decent but bombed. They had set up and attacked Captain Marvel but they flamed out because it was a blockbuster. So they brought their ammo out of storage when The Marvels didn't do well.
People who complain about "politics" and "messaging" and "woke" ruining TV shows were indeed quiet when Andor had a gay relationship, strong female characters who defy gender roles and clear social AND political themes. Because they can't blame that stuff for a show being bad when the show is actually good. Because that stuff almost never is the root cause of bad writing. It's scapegoated by people making money off of bigots and sexists looking to blame POC and women for why modern TV shows suck.
@@johnnymittle or maybe its people like you who are already set up to deflect criticism with bigotry and misogyny. You have the representation all set to go, then anyone who doesn't like the show, boom there you have your label rather than actually listening to the critique.
@@EngineeredTheMind "I know you are but what am I?" Really? This channel criticized Acolyte all the live long day and no one accuses them of any bigotry. Because they criticized actual legit problems like writing, pacing and scene construction. Not, "diversity shoved in our face! Therefore bad."
The anti-woke "attack" on Acolyte didn't factor in. The loudest voices aren't necessarily truly representative of the viewing audience. Twitter / X and social media posts aren't necessarily truly representative of the viewing audience. The voices we definitely didn't hear were the ones that were totally apathetic to the whole thing, who had zero passion either way. They were just like "huh? " 🤔😐🤷🏼♂️ checked out a few episodes and never went back.
That's the thing that bothered me the most out of the slanted reviews... there were probably like 5-10% of them and they got 90% of the coverage bout how incense are review bombing when most the reviews were talking bout the writing structure etc
@@OrionInSpace what percentage of the reviews are agenda people and how many are people with negative reviews? I'm sure a lot of people had legit negative reviews cause it just wasn't a good show.
15:40 he did not make that $4 million back yet, even with the billion dollar films. The budget of those films, the budgets of the shows. not to mention budget failure of Indiana Jones and that stupid Star Wars hotel thing that bombed there’s no way they made their money back yet
Yeah. People forget profit isn't revenue. The one thing that probably earned them tons is merchandising though. Grogu, BB8 and other cute or hot designs has been making their shirt, toy, co-branding deals, etc. earn them money hand over fist.
I don't understand where all this dislike for Filoni is coming from. He has not even had this new position for a year at this point. In fact, he announced it only Nov of last year! The Acolyte has been in production for years at this point. Rocha saying Filoni had a lot of notes or interference on the Acolyte means nothing. Maybe the Acolyte would have even been worse without his input. Hedland has even commented on the fact she wasn't allowed certain things. Headland: "This was very important to me, Dave Filoni, and to Pablo Hidalgo, that the girls are not a vergence. The girls themselves are not a vergence in the Force. They needed… again, however they got here…the act of creating them was going to need amplification." i.e. the planet! Even though the show implies otherwise and Nothing is conveyed well IMO. He can't, nor should he rewrite whole scripts. Was his writing great on Ahsoka? Maybe not, but I don't believe it was terrible. At lease it was a lot more cohesive than the Acolyte. And I give him a bit of a pass being that was his first live action show he had full control over. His work on the Mandalorian was not bad and you (Kristian) praise the animation, which he is even more involved with. And don't forget the final Bad Batch season, which seams to get glossed over and was great.
Didn’t a writer on the acolyte come out on twitter and say how everything that appeared/happened on the show was looked over and pre approved by Filoni so he agreed with what we got. Also none of the shows we’ve gotten from Star Wars have had episodes that were even 50 minutes long let alone an hour because Filoni is following what Lucas did “Shorter,Faster” so that’s also on him. And under him we’ve gotten 3 mid to bad shows with Mando Season 3, Ashoka and now Acolyte. Andor doesn’t count cause that’s Gilroy’s baby and all he really needed from Lucasfilm was the Star Wars set dressings. Filoni’s new position means he’s just as responsible/culpable as Kennedy and Headland. Same as Feige and Gunn if a bad product comes out they’re partly to blame, and I thinks fanboys aren’t used to Filoni having such a position yet which is why there’s hardly any blame going to him but that’ll wear off the longer he’s there and more people rightfully will hold him responsible too. Plus the inserted random comedy bits like the tracker trying to fight Mae scream someone else putting this into the story and the only person who has that say would be Filoni.
I believe that comment in response to the canonicity of the show when the writing was getting heat for it. And if I'm being fair, nothing really breaks canon. "[He] has to ultimately approve them along with the rest of the Lucasfilm team" which is all that remains of the removed tweet. Filoni approves to what extent? He certainly doesn't have that power to say if a whole script is a go. Not at that point. Who knows what other crap was initially in the script? If there're a lot of notes that means that a lot of things NEEDED to be change. Headland herself said she had to fight for something like Yoda being included, He's not in the writing room assisting with the scripts. Now he's getting blamed for the short episodes too? Hah, ALL these shows have short episodes! Marvel does it too. And I'm sure budget is a big reason. Hell, House of the Dragon's season was truncated, because of budget. To say that is because of his philosophy or ideas from George makes no sense. When did Lucas ever say "shorter/faster" is better? That's head cannon. I agree about Andor, but that story as a whole is not very Star Sars. Like you said, it has Star Wars dressing. Don't pretend that Andor was universal hit. As good as the writing was a portion didn't watch or like it because it just didn't feel Star Wars enough. BTW, both scripts for The Acolyte and Skeleton Crew were done before 2023! Again, he was not in that position of power. If these upcoming shows that are in production suck, then yeah, a large part of the blame would be on Filoni.
The best thing to come out of this is it wasn’t even a “woke” issue (btw, woke is NOT the same as progressive. The later is great, the former is tokenism.) It’s JUST about terrible writing. It seems almost everyone agrees on that, even the extreme ranges of TH-camrs.
You can’t have a good faith discussion of the show because Acolyte fans and shills just call other fans that had a problem with it racist or sexist etc like geeks weren’t loving Sarah Conner, Princess Leia, and even more recently Ahsoka before this travesty of a tax write off. It feels like bandwagoners took over the IP and started gatekeeping us from the things we’ve loved from the start. I had a bit of hope after the mandalorian but after S3 and then this any good faith I had is gone. I’m too tired and too busy to care about any of this, I m just gonna rewatch old trek shows and SW movies
They basically culturally appropriated all of the successful white male geek stuff and poisoned the golden geese lol. If you have a huge built in audience for an IP I don't understand the logic of trying to replace it with a different audience. It would be lightning in a bottle if it actually worked and serves no real purpose other than "stick it to whitey".
It is a business decision. But some will defend a show that is perceived as having political/social political connections regardless of the actual quality. They feel obligated to take a stance. Here are some factoids on budget. Acolyte: $180 million Mandalorian Season 3: $120 million. Kenobi: $90 million We seen most of the cost on screen for the others. The Acolyte ... not so much.
@@mrfloosak I looked it up and found filming was between October 2022 and June 2023. If there were any covid protocols at all at that point they would been minimal. For inflation that doesn't account for the show being twice that of Kenobi which is more likely to have had some residual covid protocols given it was shot during 2021.
I hope Skeleton Crew is a sweet heartfelt show about kids lost in space who just want to go home. If they are likable, the show will be fun and maybe a hit with kids. Maybe this is a show your kids will like to watch. Maybe it will be the palate cleanser before Andor season 2.
Still don't understand how this show cost 180 million dollars and a show like Foundation that likes twice as better and twice as long only costed 45 million. Are those choreographed lightsaber scenes really cost that much?
Your precious video about this cancellation was spot on. Ive been in agreement with your analysis since this news broke. Since then ive listened to Force Centre and Star Wars Explained videos on the same news and I cant believe how different the conversations are both in the video and in their comments sections to here. Theres genuine GRIEF for the cancellation. Almost confusion about how cancellation could possibly happen. But youve been saying since the show aired its fine if different people have different views on the overall quality of the series...but a 180 million budget had to be a massive hit for everyone. I can understand that people disagree about what they like/dont like... but I cant tell you how frustrating its been as a fan of Star Wars, a fan of yours and a fan of some of your former colleagues/Shmoedown guests to be listening to different sets of analysis that dont even cross over with each other, that are just on two separare levels. Its like two ships passing in the night. May as well be talking about different news stories. And this is from people who, whilst im in agreement with your analysis, respect and have, until now, trusted to give a fair analysis motivated by poisitivitly but not partisan factional.
Lucasfilm will never please all the fans because they didn't manage to do so with Andor and yet you all say that was the best written Star Wars content since 1980... if Andor didn't bring the fanbase together then please tell us the next thing that will Also, Andor was announced as a 2 season show which is why the 2nd season was greenlit - Acolyte was never announced as a 2 or multiple season show.
I agree that Lucasfilm should create a writers room to oversee the next bunch of projects the same way that DC has done. James Gunn has included comic writers and Star Wars would benefit from some of the novel writers input as well.
Acolyte forgot that SW first and foremost has to be “cool”. A universe you want to get lost in. “The power of many” (and really the entire episode) is perhaps the completely opposite of that, and it’s easy to imagine a lot of people just bowing out at that point
One of the interesting things about Pugh is that she isn’t squeamish about doing nude scenes and i’m old enough to remember a tine when mainstream actresses appeared nude in films. That said, the sex scenes in Oppenheimer seemed a little out of place.
To be fair Rocha Ewan McGregor was an executive producer on the Kenobi show so when he did come out and stand up for Moses he was technically doing so from that position
Firing KK is step #1 to turning Disney SW around. Making Tony Gilroy script supervisor of all TV and film SW content is step 2 and nearly as crucial to turning things around at LF. And no it doesn't mean everything will be like Andor. It just means that the quality of SW material will rise to a much higher level. Gilroy has more than proven himself on the big and small screen with Rogue One and Andor which were fan or critically acclaimed if not both. Despite my high hopes, Filoni has shown he needs more assistance with live action than previously thought after Ahsoka and Acolyte. So he should no longer be the chief creative officer at LF. Although he could still be a lead story creative. But Gilroy should be the sole lead in finalizing SW film and TV scripts. So Filoni would be in charge of stating what some (but not all) of the characters, settings, eras, canon, and stories that are being told would be. Gilroy would be in charge of character dialogue and arcs in the stories being told. But he and others can still suggest any story features (characters, settings, eras, etc.) that Filoni advises on. Favreau would be the tiebreaker if there are ever any disagreements. As far as the Acolyte, it was framed as a mystery but the mystery just wasn't that intriguing. Also, the characters were just completely unlikeable, uninteresting, or offed too early. Sol was empathetic but his character was destroyed by the incredibly unlikeable Vernestra (green Star Trek Jedi). The show would've been so much better with Indara/Carrie Ann Moss and Sol leading and characters like Kelnacca (Wookie Jedi) supporting instead of unceremoniously offing all 3. And yes, absolutely fire Kathleen Kennedy. Star Wars will never be what it should be with her at the helm. And she's proven that over the last decade plus. She's had her chance. Now it's time for another to have theirs. Until then and perhaps well beyond, Faverau should inherit ALL of her and some of Dave's creative duties: greenlighting or rejecting story pitches, creative guidance, hiring and firing other creatives, etc. to provide the overall vision for SW. And Kennedy must immediately be barred from any and all creative input (let alone final decisions). Until she's let go outright her duties must be relegated to only facilitating Faverau's direction and Gilroy's quality control in the SW division of LF.
I wish there was ONE show called the Star Wars show that told different stories. For ME, Star Wars has always been ensemble content, I don't get why they had to imitate Marvel with singel character stories.
Just wasn’t a good show. Period. No hate to the actors or directors. How do you have episodes that are under 25 minutes and then set up a teaser season finale??? Like what the heck? You didn’t have enough material for season 1 why expect a second season?
I think I have a few ideas about who the tweet you refer to at about the 4.30 mark could be by. I watched a weekly Q&A by one of my favourite SW channels earlier today before watching this video, and that exact point was brought up. And my exact reaction was as per Kristians "what do you mean, its a BUSINESS". Im baffled about the discourse going on by some people whose work I like. In genuinely greatful for the way youve covered this story Kristian - fairly but also taking no prisoners - because my ability to engage with "Star Wars youtube" would be severely deminished if I didnt get that feeling of justification of my own feelings through your videos and coverage because if I just listened to some other favourite channels Id almost feel like I was in a parallel universe.
Kristian, did you interview Luceno? wouldn't be a bad idea to do a 1 on 1 with him for an hour or so and talk about the Plagues books and what he'd love to see. Maybe someone at Lucasfilm might be persuaded to see if there's potential for an dark Andor type, one off 12 part show like Andor, break it into 4x3 spisode story arcs and the last episode being Palps killing Plageus and rising to power. And have Luceno as creative consultant or co-writer/story editor. And keep Filioni away from it.
Kristan is one of the most decent guys on TH-cam. With that said, I do like when he started by saying “I’ll be as nice as possible” and then destroyed the crow director and said he shouldn’t be allowed to direct any more movies. And I agree with him 100%
I think disney has no chocie but to completely restructure lucasfilm. Of the 7 live action Disney+ shows Lucasfilm has made, (which includes Willow) only 2 were well received (Mando and Andor). The viewership has also been declining overall for each series following Season 2 the mandalorian. Their last movie (Indiana Jones 5,), was a complete disaster.
The people in charge of Lucasfilm really need to go, in part, for green lighting The Acolyte, but actually watching it and initially green lighting a season 2. Why can't we get Empire Strikes Back level story telling? Overall I liked Andor, but thought the imperials were dorks with too much power, and it was kind of dry. But Andor and maybe half of Rogue One are the only decent live action stuff that Lucasfilm has done under Disney. I only like maybe 25% of the first season of The Mandalorian, thought that was a big miss that kept getting worse with each season.
Guys you know exactly who should be the executive to put everything in place, you work with him, Sam Witwer. Roca, stop it up about standing with your people, it's crap, you don't defend crap. Shut up with the race card, that's not the problem, good projects doesn't matters the colors of your skin, if it's good peoples are gonna love it. Remember " Everything, Everywhere, all at once." If it's crap peoples won't care. " The Crow", it doesn't really matters what you did before, you could use that arguments on Leslie Headland, so non-valid. The problem withall those projects, peoples who doesn't understand the source material. I can gives you more examples, IWTV, RoP, The Acolyte...
13:38 No. Really bad take! That's exactly what they've been doing. Stop putting your people in front of the firing line and you won't need to stand in front of them.
In these situations ... people do not resign and "step down" They have a private meeting and they say .... we want you to resign before we fire you. Here are some lovely parting gifts. I don't blame Kennedy for saying she wants a win before she steps down. I kinda hope she gets one actually because for her it is a legacy issue for her. She wants a win so she is not entirely remembered for the destruction of one of the biggest franchises in cinema history. She has had a legit career in the past ... just being the top dog might not be the best place for her to have reached.
the problem is that win is the mandalorian movie , that is not out for another 2 years and there is no guaritee, based on their current performance that it will be good either. The problems at lucasfilm need to be addressed now, not in 2 years and one of the issues is a change of leadership.
As someone that liked Andor can someone out there show me how much it went up in views because even though i luved it i dont remember it going up all crazy high like some ppl are saying i just remember critics really liking it and it still being split with fans. I thought the only reason it got a season 2 was because it was in the contract or something from the start but if we taking emotions out of it would it of got a season 2 for how much it cost vs how it did.
I don’t know what character Keanu would play, but something like this and the trust of someone that can inspire full confidence like Gilroy for example behind the creative side of the project could really make people hopeful or excited for something new. The only way they can truly have something exciting that would make a billion dollars is if you get someone like Keanu involved alongside a solid creator, or something like that to make people go WOAH! SW is doing what with who?! Can’t wait to see THAT! You throw that in with a news article that announces Lucasfilm will be under new management, something like Gunn and Safran where a creator is also in the top chair alongside a more business savvy individual or whatever, and baby you got a stew goin’. I’d absolutely get excited about the future of SW if something like this happens, and that’s what SW needs after the state Acolyte left things.
When Filoni does something, it feels like SW. it’s really hard to believe he was approving the acolyte. It makes no sense since we have 15 years of his previous work that says he does know what’s up.
He def wasn't in the position he is in now when The Acolyte was developed. I liked the show but I don't think Filoni was in on it early. He came in late and helped where he could.
That's crazy about JLo, especially considering she's a notorious diva, so many stories about how she has the most insane demands, 5 star hotels and a private jet, and people have sad she is an absolute nightmare to work for, and there was that notorious story about how she got this poor hotel maid in Germany fired just for trying to talk to her. Carries on like she's literal royalty, when really she's a hack who doesn't even sing her own songs 😂
Andor had low intial viewership, but as it strarted growing meant it has potential to grow further in season 2. With the Acolyte having it's viewership declining in season 1 is a death kneel, as it meant that the show would not attract new viewers for Season 2, and would likely losse more of the existing viewership that was jumping off.
About the only thing I really like with Star Wars the past several years are the Hasbro 3.75" figure line. That Darth Vader they just put out is amazing. I still need to get the new Boba Fett though. Just picked up the new Storm Trooper, amazing.
Let's set aside the toxic loud minority, All right. Why didn't anyone of the non bigot, non-toxic casuals watch The Acolyte? Where were all the lovers of scifi TV, where was the gay community that Disney was desperate to pull in, where was anyone else other than the hardcore fans that love this franchise? What a wasted opportunity of a show. Gays? Dope. Trans? Dope. POC dope. Interesting story? Nope. Compelling characters? Nope.
The Peaky Blinders showrunner was writing the script for the Rey movie. I wonder if the Acolyte backlash means Lucasfilm will no longer continue with his script.
Can't wait to see Spader as Ultron again. Age of Ultron not great but definitely rewatchable for me and a lot has to do with Spader's performance as Ultron
Good video. I prefer THIS Rocha. He’s more like the old Rocha. He seems to have a different personality on Kristian’s channel as opposed to his own channel.
I think when it comes to people being upset at The Acolyte's cancellation, what they need to remember is that Disney is not morally obligated to keep the show going, especially if it doesn't make business sense to do so. I know some people are trying to frame this as, "the toxic side of the fandom winning," but I don't think any studio should keep a series going purely to spite a section of the fandom, as annoying as they can sometimes be. There has to be an audience for this show and it has to make business sense for Disney to invest another $200 million for a second season to exist.
Liked this episode and what you are doing with your channel now. I’m not gonna lie though, in my opinion, I still wish you would’ve kept the old Sith council logo for your channel. I don’t know if collider owned it, but it was always eye-catching and something I look forward to watching every week.
The discourse surrounding the Acolyte has been indicative of how stupidly political things have gotten and how common sense has left too many people. The places and people reporting this as some great loss for humankind are crazy. It cost nearly 200 million to make, and it didn't capture anywhere close to enough of the people in the middle (people like Steph). Kristian and John are right about the Quartering style youtubers who are cartoonishingly annoying and biased for their side as well. Them getting what they wanted here is Disneys fault. Just like it was HBO's success that TLOU was too good for their right wing bullshit to stain.
RIP Sid Vicious/ Sycho Sid. The fact he was able to stay in character during the whole shockmaster incident , is a testament to his professionalism! I would not have been abe to keep a straight face for sure!
I'm a little confused about something. If Dave Filoni is a bad writer, then how can he be a good storyteller? Those things completely contradict each other.
I know Kristian likes to broad brush the "haters" as empty-headed reactionaries. But if he watched the channels that critique Disney Star Wars (and are having a lot more fun) he'd know most of them awaited the Mandolorian with an open mind, not with boxing gloves at the ready.
How about the people who are just BORED with Disney, Star Wars, the MCU, DC etc. etc? As long as this trash is being rammed down our throats nothing will ever get better.
Honestly, the confusing commentary regarding its cancellation suggests to me that a good number of the people who defend it or act like it was good are doing so out of a misplaced sense of obligation. It is not good and it isn't because of it being 'woke' either. TLOU had a latino playing the texan lead and two full episodes (the best episode of the show in my opinion) were dedicated to gay romances. Yet, the show was criticaly acclaimed, popular and getting a second season.
Trying to figure out why certain people are defending the show so ferociously and essentially grieving it's cancellation has been driving me mad this past week. There's so two TH-cam channels I love - both of whom have worked with Kristian for the schoedow - who are just talking on a totally different level to Kristians analysis which seems the fair and correct one. They are talking about totally different points. Sure, they enjoyed the show more, but that doesn't explain this level of reaction and defence and grief from people who, although they make it their mission to be positive, are not exactly random keyboard culture warriors fighting the latest battle on behalf of their team online. I've tried to understand it and it doesn't boil down to "Kristian didn't like the show so isn't worried it's cancelled" "other youtuber liked the show so is upset", no it's more complex than that... when the other people are talking about it they don't mention the budget etc at all yet I know they know this information. One channel mentioned the viewership drop off but then immediately speculated it could have been due to the negative talk online putting neutrals off watching further. It's two completely different conversations going on about this cancellation. Even on people who migjt agree on the show, Rocha started this stream saying "f**king semantics" about cancellation vs not renewed, Mike had a whole twitter fighter with people about it saying they don't work in the film industry so don't understand why it's an important difference. And I feel like, because I watch channels with such different takes, I'm the only one who is seeing this really weird phenonmena where people are not disagreeing, they are holding two separate conversations. I think Kristians analysis is spot on for what it's worth, I just wish more people were listening to him.
There’s no way Sharmeen gets to direct the Rey movie, if it even gets made. Surely Lucasfilm and Disney can understand that they need to move away from people like her who have their own agenda and prejudices. The soapbox bullshit needs to stop.
50 million for acolyte I think make it anthology series with new cast and good story. Besides that I doubt it happens. Community only show come back for fans
I don't think you are giving Filoni his due when it comes to directing. His ep of Ashoka with Anakin looked great as did his episode in season 2 of Mandalorian. He seems to have gotten better directing wise.
There's no way a series with dismal viewership (due to bad writing and idiotic production) was going to be renewed. Disney keeps what makes them money and the Acolyte basically flushed 180mil down the toilet.
Kristian, I understand everyone has their #1 celebrity crush they’ll defend to the ends of the Earth and think that anyone who disagrees with you is crazy. I respect the dedication…but I’m with Rocha on this one. Julia Roberts was never prettier than Florence Pugh. (please don’t block me I love your channel lol)
First time watching you guys, really enjoyed it as you aren't being jerks to either side which is really unlike some other stuff I've been recommended recently. This is realistic and logical. Good stuff! I was really looking forward to Acolyte but didn't enjoy it all and that's that, onto the next!
This whole year has been pretty brutal in terms of BO. Only a handful of movies have done really well. I did love Alien Romulus though. It's the only movie I've seen at the theaters twice this year
I wonder if John reads these comments. Here goes. John: Why on earth would you hide my comments from your channel? My comments are always respectful and supportive, aren’t they?
@@dallaskinard3143 I defended Rocha for a very long time but i’m finally understanding the criticism he receives. Hiding non-abusive comments on his channel is just strange. I wonder how many of the others who write comments on his channel realise that no one can actually see what they’re written.
I don’t think Rocha knows what objective means.
18:12 all I can say about Keanu Reeves is thank god they didn’t waste him in the acolyte. They already wasted Carrie-Anne moss
They more than wasted Carrie-Anne Moss, they pulled a blatant, intentional, bait-and-switch with her character.
Thank the maker!!😂
The Acolyte failed cause nothing made sense
at all
What didn't make sense?
@@mattrismattwhy didn’t yoda sense jedi being murdered. Mae changing sides 5 times. Cutting the wookie fight scene. Mae is supposed to kill without a weapon but kills jedi with a weapon
@@ryanfordham9563 How do we know that Yoda didn’t sense those Jedi being murdered? Regardless, Yoda was not all-powerful or all-knowing regarding the Force.
Mae - along with her sister, Osha - was severely confused and conflicted... one soul across two people certainly added to their life conundrum. It would be unwise to consider Mae's flip-flopping behavior as merely "changing sides". As shown throughout the Star Wars canon, there's so much more to these character archetypes than deeming them conclusively 'good' or 'bad'. As these characters become aware of new or significant information, major behavioral changes should be expected, like growth, regression, turning to the dark side, etc.
What really matters is the grander intent of the story of Star Wars. This includes realizing each characters' place in the overall narrative and themes. What happened in _The Acolyte_ was consistent with the previous Star Wars installments.
Which Wookie fight scene was cut? Have you seen it? Wouldn't such an omission be just a personal preference, not something that didn't make sense?
At the end of the first episode, Qimir made the point that mere physical death would not truly defeat the Jedi. Thus, 'kill them without a weapon' became Mae's challenge. She facilitated Torbin's suicide. Ironically, it was Osha who killed Master Sol with a Force choke.
@@mattrismatt if that ever explained in the show about the one being split into two? It's mentioned and never brought up again until sol for some reason needs to prove this now at the end , but have blood samples ! Needing the twins together is irrelevant. There several story points that don't make sense, example blaming sol for the murders, doesn't work cause sol was at the Jedi temple when Trinity was killed and there were witnesses to it. When badly written sad Jedi took the poison,sol was picking back OSHA on the ice planet again witnesses the little boy she needed for some reason she really did him for. And twins just all over the place with their motivations was the biggest fail of the show! OSHA finds out her sister who she thought was dead for 16 years is killing Jedi and she's like Mae's the Jedi's problem I'm out. Had to convinced to help, then Mae my sisters alive that changes everything, then knocks her out and leave on a planet a killer , takes her clothes and cuts her hair with a saber 🤣 cus now her is only long on the sides and not on her back 🤣 but what ever ! Goes with sol and he doesn't know that's not OSHA cause the plot says so. They established they had to walk for hrs to get to the wookie , so in all that time a seasoned Jedi couldn't sense she is Mae? Writing is a hard job but these writers were terrible, now if u can look passed all of that and there is more but u don't care about it then this show good to u! Glad u liked it,for a lot of people they like it or Disney star wars has been so disappointing they didn't even tune in.
This episode is a great example of why I love this channel. Acolyte wasn’t good in most people’s eyes. Not because of politics, but because the writing was terrible!
Yes there are fans of this show. Those people may align politically or not. But the real issue comes down to terrible writing. X-men 97 and Andor are proof that good writing can save any show
Yup terrible writing ... pretty basic. Even if you were on board with the messaging it was still done horribly. Headland had to explain so many episodes.
I've been telling people variations of this: I like diversity and inclusion. I know representation matters.
This show was not good. The writing and a lot of the acting sucked.
But also because of politics
It was a bad because of politics and bad writing. Politics/ political correctness/wokeness whatever you wanna call it ruins any show. Also terrible writing with a bad plot, horrible character choices, retconning ki adi mundi, making the Jedi seem downright evil and corrupt, and apparently having Anakin not the only one born from the force.
"Regime change" THANK YOU!!! I've been saying this for the longest time. Clean house already. The current team is NOT working out.
Hating Star Wars has unfortunately become an industry. That goes for certain TH-camrs and the toxic fans. I’m an OG SW fan and I find things to enjoy in all the releases and try my best to avoid all the negativity.
That's fine to be easy to please but don't put that on everyone. Also, all things lead to the sequels anyway so what's the point? The prequels succeeded because it lead to the OT.
At this point Kathleen Kennedy can't blame the "anti woke agenda" after the disastrous box office of Indy 5, the massacre that was Willow and how poorly the last couple of years have been received. Yes she made 3 billion dollar movies but also broke the fandom hiring confrontational creators and actors that tend to clash with a lot of the fans, Rian Johnson was at war against the fans when TLJ went out and was disliked, Leslie Headland and Amandala Sternberg went against everyone who didn't like their show, yes SW has a problem with a lot of toxic fans and that's what makes obvious the need for someone at the top calling the shots and picking non confrontational people.
Her film trilogy also made much less with every release
@@zaneplatt3533Amandla did nothing wrong
Fans were really unfair with Ryan too, they are not innocent either
Just to clarify, there are a lot of toxic fans, but the creators can't just say "toxic fandom, anti woke agenda, misogynistic incels and racist fans" at the minimum percentage of criticism, as long as the people keep the criticism focused on the product and not the gender, race or color of the actor or creator.
@@owenharrison761
No we weren't. He went into it with bad faith. His entire mission was subversion and being antagonistic towards the lore and even Lucas himself. He got off easy, but I'm sure he'll improve with his "future trilogy".
I will never forget watching extras from The Hobbit The Battle of The Five Armies Blu Ray where Peter Jackson and the creq talked how it didn't turn out how they hoped for and explaining where it went wrong.
Why I'm saying that?? Well because Peter Jackson is not too proud to admit his faillure, even it's not terrible movie, it's not masterpiece as LOTR Trilogy, and that's why I trust Peter Jackson, that man admits he did something wrong and that's why he has most of people's trust, and that's someting Kathleen Kennedy will never have, people's trust, because she will never admit faillure and instead she will keep blaming fans calling them names using black and female leads as a shield from terrible stories.Let's not forget that se never officially said Rian Johnson's trilogy is not happening, same as Patty Jenkins movie, same as D&D trilogy or Taika Waititi movie, she still pretends it's happening until people forget they were announced.
And that's why she will never have our trust!!
Kristian harloff here is my two cents. When George Lucas sold Star wars to Disney. He said that he is turning over a treasure trove of stories to KK and Disney.The problem with star wars is Luke Skywalker. Under Disney they refused to have him as the main character and finish out his story. That was their biggest mistake.My problem is that alot of so-called content creators jump on board with that narrative about moving away from the Skywalker saga. We never got to see George Lucas final explanation about the force. Too many people are giving us their idea of what the force is. Instead of knowing George Lucas idea of what it's all about. As far as Dave filoni only works well because of George Lucas guiding him. People forget George Lucas came up with the idea of ahsoka. It was under George Lucas guidance that Dave filoni was able to shape the character. When fans was giving out some real creative criticism of why they did not like the character of Rey. A lot of big content creators was helping to push that narrative of misogynistic on anyone who dare to criticize.Thats was very real thing. Was there toxic content creators who was injecting political points of views inside the fandom. Absolutely yes. But the reason why they was able to succeed. Is because Lucas film under Kathleen Kennedy leadership refuse to give the real fandom what they wanted. Which was good stories and great characters.Now in 2024 we have gotten a show that was hell bent and totally disrespectful to the legacy of George Lucas. And they made it known to the public. I'm 50 years old all I want to see is the original sequel trilogy ideas of George Lucas. Mark Hamill is still alive and they can give us George Lucas original sequel trilogy movies. If they don't want to do it in live action. They can do it in the clone wars animation style with Mark Hamill voicing his character as old man Luke Skywalker. When Kevin Conroy passed away that made me realize we will never hear the definitive voice of Batman more. I want new leadership at lucasfilm . I want that leadership to go to George Lucas and ask him to help them to retell his original sequel trilogy movies. Star wars will never be right until they do right by the Creator and by the main character of Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker should have had a proper death in the third movie. That's how you set up a successful in Rey. One more thing that i must say. Most well-written female characters historically have been written by men who was well verse in the art of writing.
Sadly your dream will never come true. They had the chance to make that happen they even had everyone alive and they spit in our faces. Lucas should have made a clause that they had to make his 3 movies then it was all theirs
What's funny is that all of the youtube channels that were giving it bad reviews likely drove more traffic to the show with people wanted to check it out to see if it was actually that bad. If it wasn't' for them the numbers would have been even worse
i don't think so
@@GenghisDon1970 then you are pretending the show was actually good and was something people reviewing could get excited about. We're talking about the same bad show, if all the of channels that didn't like it didn't talk about it at all and ignored it, how exactly do you think that would help?
@@EngineeredTheMind no
you are blathering bullshit & I do not care about it
be wrong, crazy & dumb all you like, though
I know I only made it to the end by rubbernecking the whole damn thing going "it can't possibly get worse! ........can it?" And it proved it could every damn minute. By the end, I was just so shocked by how terrible it was, I was nearly speechless. It's like the anti-Star Wars, bad is good and good is bad and morality is a joke.
You totally just owned those channels. Well done! Anyways show is canceled lol
The Crow needed a likeable lead character. Brandon Lee’s version was a bad-ass yes, but he was likeable, he had a sense of humour and was a bit zany at times, and it worked. The flashbacks fleshed out his character before he died. This new version is covered in tattoos, has been in prison, and looks like a criminal. He’s not relatable or likeable. Mistake number one. His face paint doesn’t make him look like a tragic figure. Mistake number two. Taking too long to get to the meat and potatoes. Mistake number three. Explaining the supernatural stuff and over complicating things. Mistake number four. The Crow should have been a simple story, it’s a story that just works as intended. There was no need to reinvent the wheel.
You knew Rocha was gonna cry about race and inclusion 😂
I don't think The Mandalorian and Grogu is a "guaranteed win." It's a movie version of a TV show whose last season was poorly received. Not to mention it won't be released until May 2026, 3 years after the last season of the show. The movie could be good and still do
Agreed, the viewership fell off in Season 3. It is possible the audience , who are starting to drop off a show than can watch for free at home, will not want to pay to go out to watch the next installment .
I'd make a bet that it does a billion. If it's a quality film. ROS did a billion even after how divisive TLJ was
Timestamps: Sorry for being late, I had to leave for work before the stream ended. Happy Monday Everyone!
0:00 Intro
0:38 What Happened to The Acolyte and Star Wars?
17:35 Keanu Reeves' Could Have Been in The Acolyte
33:27 Box Office Breakdown: The Crow Bombs w/Less Than $5 Million
44:00 Quentin Tarantino Refuses to Watch Toy Story 4
48:44 James Spader Returning as Ultron in the MCU
52:32 Super Chats & Outro
Check out this weeks sponsors! Links are in the description.
[AG1, JOYMODE, LIQUID IV, ROCKET MONEY]
Our hero
I'm very glad you're back Kristian! It's not the same without you
As far as Acolyte goes, I feel bad for the people that loved it. I didn't want it to fail, but it was a bad show the same as Willow was bad. Yes there were woke elements but it still could have been good but they had horrible writing, characters that you couldn't really get behind and surprises that people either saw coming or weren't earned
As far as Star Wars goes, it's all a mess. They supposedly had a story group led by Pablo Hidalgo that would keep everything running smooth and almost immediately chucked that concept out and let every creator do whatever the hell they wanted whether it made sense in the overall Canon or not
I can't wait to start saying Star Wars is killing it.
Feels like we’re getting closer to it unless Skeleton Crew is stellar and the momentum continues with Andor S2.
@@TimLSim yeah fingers cross.
Not gonna happen until Filoni and Kennedy are gone unfortunately.
@@z28mjt Agree
You gonna be alive when that happens
Like Eric Ciane from Forbes keeps pointing out, what the people who attack the fans for being bigots or sexist need to explain is why all these people who hated the Acolyte actually like Andor when that show is more diverse than the Acolyte and has more representation
It has a male lead. It’s female leads they can’t stand.
It's results based. They can't make any headway attacking Andor because it was too obviously high quality and well received. But they were set up for it. Just like they were before Acolyte started. They used Acolyte actually being bad to justify their bigotry and misogyny. And piled on it with glee.
Same as against The Marvels, which was decent but bombed. They had set up and attacked Captain Marvel but they flamed out because it was a blockbuster. So they brought their ammo out of storage when The Marvels didn't do well.
People who complain about "politics" and "messaging" and "woke" ruining TV shows were indeed quiet when Andor had a gay relationship, strong female characters who defy gender roles and clear social AND political themes. Because they can't blame that stuff for a show being bad when the show is actually good. Because that stuff almost never is the root cause of bad writing. It's scapegoated by people making money off of bigots and sexists looking to blame POC and women for why modern TV shows suck.
@@johnnymittle or maybe its people like you who are already set up to deflect criticism with bigotry and misogyny. You have the representation all set to go, then anyone who doesn't like the show, boom there you have your label rather than actually listening to the critique.
@@EngineeredTheMind "I know you are but what am I?"
Really?
This channel criticized Acolyte all the live long day and no one accuses them of any bigotry. Because they criticized actual legit problems like writing, pacing and scene construction.
Not, "diversity shoved in our face! Therefore bad."
The anti-woke "attack" on Acolyte didn't factor in. The loudest voices aren't necessarily truly representative of the viewing audience. Twitter / X and social media posts aren't necessarily truly representative of the viewing audience. The voices we definitely didn't hear were the ones that were totally apathetic to the whole thing, who had zero passion either way. They were just like "huh? " 🤔😐🤷🏼♂️ checked out a few episodes and never went back.
That's the thing that bothered me the most out of the slanted reviews... there were probably like 5-10% of them and they got 90% of the coverage bout how incense are review bombing when most the reviews were talking bout the writing structure etc
The attacks usually serve almost as promotion for these shows and get people to hate watch it who might've never heard of it otherwise.
@@Grimbear13the show did get review bombed though that’s a fact
@@OrionInSpace what percentage of the reviews are agenda people and how many are people with negative reviews? I'm sure a lot of people had legit negative reviews cause it just wasn't a good show.
This is the best take. It's just a meh show with meh plot with meh characters and meh world building. It's meh.
15:40 he did not make that $4 million back yet, even with the billion dollar films. The budget of those films, the budgets of the shows. not to mention budget failure of Indiana Jones and that stupid Star Wars hotel thing that bombed there’s no way they made their money back yet
Yeah. People forget profit isn't revenue. The one thing that probably earned them tons is merchandising though. Grogu, BB8 and other cute or hot designs has been making their shirt, toy, co-branding deals, etc. earn them money hand over fist.
I think the main reason for cancellation is the price tag. Show was expensive as hell and didn’t even look like it.
I don't understand where all this dislike for Filoni is coming from. He has not even had this new position for a year at this point. In fact, he announced it only Nov of last year! The Acolyte has been in production for years at this point. Rocha saying Filoni had a lot of notes or interference on the Acolyte means nothing. Maybe the Acolyte would have even been worse without his input. Hedland has even commented on the fact she wasn't allowed certain things.
Headland: "This was very important to me, Dave Filoni, and to Pablo Hidalgo, that the girls are not a vergence. The girls themselves are not a vergence in the Force. They needed… again, however they got here…the act of creating them was going to need amplification." i.e. the planet! Even though the show implies otherwise and Nothing is conveyed well IMO. He can't, nor should he rewrite whole scripts.
Was his writing great on Ahsoka? Maybe not, but I don't believe it was terrible. At lease it was a lot more cohesive than the Acolyte. And I give him a bit of a pass being that was his first live action show he had full control over. His work on the Mandalorian was not bad and you (Kristian) praise the animation, which he is even more involved with. And don't forget the final Bad Batch season, which seams to get glossed over and was great.
Agreed and Kristian is giving him NO props on his directing.
Didn’t a writer on the acolyte come out on twitter and say how everything that appeared/happened on the show was looked over and pre approved by Filoni so he agreed with what we got. Also none of the shows we’ve gotten from Star Wars have had episodes that were even 50 minutes long let alone an hour because Filoni is following what Lucas did “Shorter,Faster” so that’s also on him. And under him we’ve gotten 3 mid to bad shows with Mando Season 3, Ashoka and now Acolyte. Andor doesn’t count cause that’s Gilroy’s baby and all he really needed from Lucasfilm was the Star Wars set dressings. Filoni’s new position means he’s just as responsible/culpable as Kennedy and Headland. Same as Feige and Gunn if a bad product comes out they’re partly to blame, and I thinks fanboys aren’t used to Filoni having such a position yet which is why there’s hardly any blame going to him but that’ll wear off the longer he’s there and more people rightfully will hold him responsible too. Plus the inserted random comedy bits like the tracker trying to fight Mae scream someone else putting this into the story and the only person who has that say would be Filoni.
I believe that comment in response to the canonicity of the show when the writing was getting heat for it. And if I'm being fair, nothing really breaks canon. "[He] has to ultimately approve them along with the rest of the Lucasfilm team" which is all that remains of the removed tweet. Filoni approves to what extent? He certainly doesn't have that power to say if a whole script is a go. Not at that point. Who knows what other crap was initially in the script? If there're a lot of notes that means that a lot of things NEEDED to be change. Headland herself said she had to fight for something like Yoda being included, He's not in the writing room assisting with the scripts.
Now he's getting blamed for the short episodes too? Hah, ALL these shows have short episodes! Marvel does it too. And I'm sure budget is a big reason. Hell, House of the Dragon's season was truncated, because of budget. To say that is because of his philosophy or ideas from George makes no sense. When did Lucas ever say "shorter/faster" is better? That's head cannon. I agree about Andor, but that story as a whole is not very Star Sars. Like you said, it has Star Wars dressing. Don't pretend that Andor was universal hit. As good as the writing was a portion didn't watch or like it because it just didn't feel Star Wars enough. BTW, both scripts for The Acolyte and Skeleton Crew were done before 2023! Again, he was not in that position of power. If these upcoming shows that are in production suck, then yeah, a large part of the blame would be on Filoni.
even if Acolyte was bad they are still advertising it online, so I hope we can watch it.
The best thing to come out of this is it wasn’t even a “woke” issue (btw, woke is NOT the same as progressive. The later is great, the former is tokenism.) It’s JUST about terrible writing. It seems almost everyone agrees on that, even the extreme ranges of TH-camrs.
You can’t have a good faith discussion of the show because Acolyte fans and shills just call other fans that had a problem with it racist or sexist etc like geeks weren’t loving Sarah Conner, Princess Leia, and even more recently Ahsoka before this travesty of a tax write off. It feels like bandwagoners took over the IP and started gatekeeping us from the things we’ve loved from the start. I had a bit of hope after the mandalorian but after S3 and then this any good faith I had is gone. I’m too tired and too busy to care about any of this, I m just gonna rewatch old trek shows and SW movies
They basically culturally appropriated all of the successful white male geek stuff and poisoned the golden geese lol. If you have a huge built in audience for an IP I don't understand the logic of trying to replace it with a different audience. It would be lightning in a bottle if it actually worked and serves no real purpose other than "stick it to whitey".
Must say I love the fact you straight up discuss the main topic with no teasing or long introduction.
It is a business decision. But some will defend a show that is perceived as having political/social political connections regardless of the actual quality. They feel obligated to take a stance.
Here are some factoids on budget.
Acolyte: $180 million
Mandalorian Season 3: $120 million.
Kenobi: $90 million
We seen most of the cost on screen for the others. The Acolyte ... not so much.
Covid protocols and inflation
@@mrfloosak I looked it up and found filming was between October 2022 and June 2023. If there were any covid protocols at all at that point they would been minimal. For inflation that doesn't account for the show being twice that of Kenobi which is more likely to have had some residual covid protocols given it was shot during 2021.
Love how the first 10 min of this is Rocha listening like a therapist to Kristian speaking his mind lol
Every problem created by the characters in the acolyte could have been solved by good communication.
I hope Skeleton Crew is a sweet heartfelt show about kids lost in space who just want to go home. If they are likable, the show will be fun and maybe a hit with kids. Maybe this is a show your kids will like to watch. Maybe it will be the palate cleanser before Andor season 2.
The sad part of all this is sometimes and I mean sometimes the “Entertain” part of Entertainment is missing for people on either side of fandoms.
Harloff is on point w/his Star Wars take💪🏼
Still don't understand how this show cost 180 million dollars and a show like Foundation that likes twice as better and twice as long only costed 45 million. Are those choreographed lightsaber scenes really cost that much?
Your precious video about this cancellation was spot on. Ive been in agreement with your analysis since this news broke.
Since then ive listened to Force Centre and Star Wars Explained videos on the same news and I cant believe how different the conversations are both in the video and in their comments sections to here.
Theres genuine GRIEF for the cancellation. Almost confusion about how cancellation could possibly happen.
But youve been saying since the show aired its fine if different people have different views on the overall quality of the series...but a 180 million budget had to be a massive hit for everyone.
I can understand that people disagree about what they like/dont like... but I cant tell you how frustrating its been as a fan of Star Wars, a fan of yours and a fan of some of your former colleagues/Shmoedown guests to be listening to different sets of analysis that dont even cross over with each other, that are just on two separare levels. Its like two ships passing in the night. May as well be talking about different news stories. And this is from people who, whilst im in agreement with your analysis, respect and have, until now, trusted to give a fair analysis motivated by poisitivitly but not partisan factional.
Lucasfilm will never please all the fans because they didn't manage to do so with Andor and yet you all say that was the best written Star Wars content since 1980... if Andor didn't bring the fanbase together then please tell us the next thing that will
Also, Andor was announced as a 2 season show which is why the 2nd season was greenlit - Acolyte was never announced as a 2 or multiple season show.
I agree that Lucasfilm should create a writers room to oversee the next bunch of projects the same way that DC has done. James Gunn has included comic writers and Star Wars would benefit from some of the novel writers input as well.
Acolyte forgot that SW first and foremost has to be “cool”. A universe you want to get lost in.
“The power of many” (and really the entire episode) is perhaps the completely opposite of that, and it’s easy to imagine a lot of people just bowing out at that point
One of the interesting things about Pugh is that she isn’t squeamish about doing nude scenes and i’m old enough to remember a tine when mainstream actresses appeared nude in films. That said, the sex scenes in Oppenheimer seemed a little out of place.
To be fair Rocha Ewan McGregor was an executive producer on the Kenobi show so when he did come out and stand up for Moses he was technically doing so from that position
Rocha and Kristian's debate of Julia Roberts and Florence Pugh @1:03:08 was gold 😂
Firing KK is step #1 to turning Disney SW around. Making Tony Gilroy script supervisor of all TV and film SW content is step 2 and nearly as crucial to turning things around at LF.
And no it doesn't mean everything will be like Andor. It just means that the quality of SW material will rise to a much higher level.
Gilroy has more than proven himself on the big and small screen with Rogue One and Andor which were fan or critically acclaimed if not both.
Despite my high hopes, Filoni has shown he needs more assistance with live action than previously thought after Ahsoka and Acolyte. So he should no longer be the chief creative officer at LF. Although he could still be a lead story creative.
But Gilroy should be the sole lead in finalizing SW film and TV scripts.
So Filoni would be in charge of stating what some (but not all) of the characters, settings, eras, canon, and stories that are being told would be.
Gilroy would be in charge of character dialogue and arcs in the stories being told. But he and others can still suggest any story features (characters, settings, eras, etc.) that Filoni advises on. Favreau would be the tiebreaker if there are ever any disagreements.
As far as the Acolyte, it was framed as a mystery but the mystery just wasn't that intriguing.
Also, the characters were just completely unlikeable, uninteresting, or offed too early. Sol was empathetic but his character was destroyed by the incredibly unlikeable Vernestra (green Star Trek Jedi).
The show would've been so much better with Indara/Carrie Ann Moss and Sol leading and characters like Kelnacca (Wookie Jedi) supporting instead of unceremoniously offing all 3.
And yes, absolutely fire Kathleen Kennedy. Star Wars will never be what it should be with her at the helm. And she's proven that over the last decade plus. She's had her chance. Now it's time for another to have theirs.
Until then and perhaps well beyond, Faverau should inherit ALL of her and some of Dave's creative duties: greenlighting or rejecting story pitches, creative guidance, hiring and firing other creatives, etc. to provide the overall vision for SW.
And Kennedy must immediately be barred from any and all creative input (let alone final decisions). Until she's let go outright her duties must be relegated to only facilitating Faverau's direction and Gilroy's quality control in the SW division of LF.
Stand by their creators? HELL NO!
Their creators are garbage, thats the problem!
Rocha is such a pathetic apologist 🤦♂️
I wish there was ONE show called the Star Wars show that told different stories. For ME, Star Wars has always been ensemble content, I don't get why they had to imitate Marvel with singel character stories.
Just wasn’t a good show. Period. No hate to the actors or directors. How do you have episodes that are under 25 minutes and then set up a teaser season finale??? Like what the heck? You didn’t have enough material for season 1 why expect a second season?
I enjoyed The Acolyte despite its many flaws - but they killed off too many of the best characters for me to lose sleep over a season 2 cancelation.
There hasn't been a single official word from Disney about cancelling anything. Think we've been played 😊
Title of the show should have been “The Big Thing CANCELLED”
Indiana Jones isn’t really a trilogy. They are 3 separate adventures that feature the same character
I think I have a few ideas about who the tweet you refer to at about the 4.30 mark could be by.
I watched a weekly Q&A by one of my favourite SW channels earlier today before watching this video, and that exact point was brought up. And my exact reaction was as per Kristians "what do you mean, its a BUSINESS". Im baffled about the discourse going on by some people whose work I like.
In genuinely greatful for the way youve covered this story Kristian - fairly but also taking no prisoners - because my ability to engage with "Star Wars youtube" would be severely deminished if I didnt get that feeling of justification of my own feelings through your videos and coverage because if I just listened to some other favourite channels Id almost feel like I was in a parallel universe.
Kristian, did you interview Luceno? wouldn't be a bad idea to do a 1 on 1 with him for an hour or so and talk about the Plagues books and what he'd love to see. Maybe someone at Lucasfilm might be persuaded to see if there's potential for an dark Andor type, one off 12 part show like Andor, break it into 4x3 spisode story arcs and the last episode being Palps killing Plageus and rising to power. And have Luceno as creative consultant or co-writer/story editor. And keep Filioni away from it.
Kristan is one of the most decent guys on TH-cam. With that said, I do like when he started by saying “I’ll be as nice as possible” and then destroyed the crow director and said he shouldn’t be allowed to direct any more movies. And I agree with him 100%
I’m one of the few people who loved ultron and has been hoping he comes back so I’m excited
I seriously doubt that The Mandalorian and Grogu will make a billion dollars. $500 million tops.
I think disney has no chocie but to completely restructure lucasfilm. Of the 7 live action Disney+ shows Lucasfilm has made, (which includes Willow) only 2 were well received
(Mando and Andor). The viewership has also been declining overall for each series following Season 2 the mandalorian.
Their last movie (Indiana Jones 5,), was a complete disaster.
Never seen you guys before, Great takes, I completely agree there is a management problem.
The people in charge of Lucasfilm really need to go, in part, for green lighting The Acolyte, but actually watching it and initially green lighting a season 2. Why can't we get Empire Strikes Back level story telling? Overall I liked Andor, but thought the imperials were dorks with too much power, and it was kind of dry. But Andor and maybe half of Rogue One are the only decent live action stuff that Lucasfilm has done under Disney. I only like maybe 25% of the first season of The Mandalorian, thought that was a big miss that kept getting worse with each season.
Guys you know exactly who should be the executive to put everything in place, you work with him, Sam Witwer. Roca, stop it up about standing with your people, it's crap, you don't defend crap. Shut up with the race card, that's not the problem, good projects doesn't matters the colors of your skin, if it's good peoples are gonna love it. Remember " Everything, Everywhere, all at once." If it's crap peoples won't care. " The Crow", it doesn't really matters what you did before, you could use that arguments on Leslie Headland, so non-valid. The problem withall those projects, peoples who doesn't understand the source material. I can gives you more examples, IWTV, RoP, The Acolyte...
13:38 No. Really bad take!
That's exactly what they've been doing.
Stop putting your people in front of the firing line and you won't need to stand in front of them.
I took some time to think about stuff. Kristian is right.
In these situations ... people do not resign and "step down" They have a private meeting and they say .... we want you to resign before we fire you. Here are some lovely parting gifts. I don't blame Kennedy for saying she wants a win before she steps down. I kinda hope she gets one actually because for her it is a legacy issue for her. She wants a win so she is not entirely remembered for the destruction of one of the biggest franchises in cinema history. She has had a legit career in the past ... just being the top dog might not be the best place for her to have reached.
the problem is that win is the mandalorian movie , that is not out for another 2 years and there is no guaritee, based on their current performance that it will be good either. The problems at lucasfilm need to be addressed now, not in 2 years and one of the issues is a change of leadership.
As someone that liked Andor can someone out there show me how much it went up in views because even though i luved it i dont remember it going up all crazy high like some ppl are saying i just remember critics really liking it and it still being split with fans. I thought the only reason it got a season 2 was because it was in the contract or something from the start but if we taking emotions out of it would it of got a season 2 for how much it cost vs how it did.
John Rocha mentality - Attack the fans more , very smart.
I don’t know what character Keanu would play, but something like this and the trust of someone that can inspire full confidence like Gilroy for example behind the creative side of the project could really make people hopeful or excited for something new. The only way they can truly have something exciting that would make a billion dollars is if you get someone like Keanu involved alongside a solid creator, or something like that to make people go WOAH! SW is doing what with who?! Can’t wait to see THAT!
You throw that in with a news article that announces Lucasfilm will be under new management, something like Gunn and Safran where a creator is also in the top chair alongside a more business savvy individual or whatever, and baby you got a stew goin’. I’d absolutely get excited about the future of SW if something like this happens, and that’s what SW needs after the state Acolyte left things.
When Filoni does something, it feels like SW. it’s really hard to believe he was approving the acolyte. It makes no sense since we have 15 years of his previous work that says he does know what’s up.
He def wasn't in the position he is in now when The Acolyte was developed. I liked the show but I don't think Filoni was in on it early. He came in late and helped where he could.
Filoni knows Star Wars but he does not know good writing/editing outside of animation. So he can only make things at the same level of the Acolyte.
@@MrEguangwell said. Filoni is a talented guy, but let's remember that the man has never made a real movie in his entire career at age Fifty.
The Acolyte was bad, that´s why.
That's crazy about JLo, especially considering she's a notorious diva, so many stories about how she has the most insane demands, 5 star hotels and a private jet, and people have sad she is an absolute nightmare to work for, and there was that notorious story about how she got this poor hotel maid in Germany fired just for trying to talk to her. Carries on like she's literal royalty, when really she's a hack who doesn't even sing her own songs 😂
I think Lucasfilm should pick Favreau to replace Kennedy. He’s not only a huge fan and great filmmaker, but a great executive too
Andor had low intial viewership, but as it strarted growing meant it has potential to grow further in season 2.
With the Acolyte having it's viewership declining in season 1 is a death kneel, as it meant that the show would not attract new viewers for Season 2, and would likely losse more of the existing viewership that was jumping off.
About the only thing I really like with Star Wars the past several years are the Hasbro 3.75" figure line. That Darth Vader they just put out is amazing. I still need to get the new Boba Fett though. Just picked up the new Storm Trooper, amazing.
Let's set aside the toxic loud minority, All right. Why didn't anyone of the non bigot, non-toxic casuals watch The Acolyte? Where were all the lovers of scifi TV, where was the gay community that Disney was desperate to pull in, where was anyone else other than the hardcore fans that love this franchise?
What a wasted opportunity of a show. Gays? Dope. Trans? Dope. POC dope. Interesting story? Nope. Compelling characters? Nope.
The Peaky Blinders showrunner was writing the script for the Rey movie. I wonder if the Acolyte backlash means Lucasfilm will no longer continue with his script.
Can't wait to see Spader as Ultron again. Age of Ultron not great but definitely rewatchable for me and a lot has to do with Spader's performance as Ultron
There only 2 things I know for certain, 1. Rian Johnson was NEVER getting his own trilogy... 2. They ain't doing no REY movie!!.. No way
Good video. I prefer THIS Rocha. He’s more like the old Rocha. He seems to have a different personality on Kristian’s channel as opposed to his own channel.
Lol "as Booker would say 'Jeff Sneider!'"
I think when it comes to people being upset at The Acolyte's cancellation, what they need to remember is that Disney is not morally obligated to keep the show going, especially if it doesn't make business sense to do so. I know some people are trying to frame this as, "the toxic side of the fandom winning," but I don't think any studio should keep a series going purely to spite a section of the fandom, as annoying as they can sometimes be. There has to be an audience for this show and it has to make business sense for Disney to invest another $200 million for a second season to exist.
Life is too short to watch hot garbage. If a trailer doesn’t grab me, I ain’t watching the show or movie.
Great analysis guys, I really hope Disney goes this direction and reboots everything…it really needs it.
Liked this episode and what you are doing with your channel now. I’m not gonna lie though, in my opinion, I still wish you would’ve kept the old Sith council logo for your channel. I don’t know if collider owned it, but it was always eye-catching and something I look forward to watching every week.
The discourse surrounding the Acolyte has been indicative of how stupidly political things have gotten and how common sense has left too many people. The places and people reporting this as some great loss for humankind are crazy. It cost nearly 200 million to make, and it didn't capture anywhere close to enough of the people in the middle (people like Steph). Kristian and John are right about the Quartering style youtubers who are cartoonishingly annoying and biased for their side as well. Them getting what they wanted here is Disneys fault. Just like it was HBO's success that TLOU was too good for their right wing bullshit to stain.
I'm with John on this one. But then again, short and cute is my type.
RIP Sid Vicious/ Sycho Sid. The fact he was able to stay in character during the whole shockmaster incident , is a testament to his professionalism!
I would not have been abe to keep a straight face for sure!
They do come out before every show and call everyone racist and homophobic before every show starts airing what are you talking about
I'm a little confused about something. If Dave Filoni is a bad writer, then how can he be a good storyteller? Those things completely contradict each other.
I know Kristian likes to broad brush the "haters" as empty-headed reactionaries. But if he watched the channels that critique Disney Star Wars (and are having a lot more fun) he'd know most of them awaited the Mandolorian with an open mind, not with boxing gloves at the ready.
They dwarf his channel in popularity. He's upset by that which is why he labels them haters
Neo and Trinity in this show, or any show would be too much. It would be distracting. So, I’m glad it didn’t work out.
How about the people who are just BORED with Disney, Star Wars, the MCU, DC etc. etc? As long as this trash is being rammed down our throats nothing will ever get better.
Honestly, the confusing commentary regarding its cancellation suggests to me that a good number of the people who defend it or act like it was good are doing so out of a misplaced sense of obligation. It is not good and it isn't because of it being 'woke' either. TLOU had a latino playing the texan lead and two full episodes (the best episode of the show in my opinion) were dedicated to gay romances. Yet, the show was criticaly acclaimed, popular and getting a second season.
Trying to figure out why certain people are defending the show so ferociously and essentially grieving it's cancellation has been driving me mad this past week.
There's so two TH-cam channels I love - both of whom have worked with Kristian for the schoedow - who are just talking on a totally different level to Kristians analysis which seems the fair and correct one. They are talking about totally different points.
Sure, they enjoyed the show more, but that doesn't explain this level of reaction and defence and grief from people who, although they make it their mission to be positive, are not exactly random keyboard culture warriors fighting the latest battle on behalf of their team online.
I've tried to understand it and it doesn't boil down to "Kristian didn't like the show so isn't worried it's cancelled" "other youtuber liked the show so is upset", no it's more complex than that... when the other people are talking about it they don't mention the budget etc at all yet I know they know this information. One channel mentioned the viewership drop off but then immediately speculated it could have been due to the negative talk online putting neutrals off watching further. It's two completely different conversations going on about this cancellation.
Even on people who migjt agree on the show, Rocha started this stream saying "f**king semantics" about cancellation vs not renewed, Mike had a whole twitter fighter with people about it saying they don't work in the film industry so don't understand why it's an important difference.
And I feel like, because I watch channels with such different takes, I'm the only one who is seeing this really weird phenonmena where people are not disagreeing, they are holding two separate conversations.
I think Kristians analysis is spot on for what it's worth, I just wish more people were listening to him.
There’s no way Sharmeen gets to direct the Rey movie, if it even gets made. Surely Lucasfilm and Disney can understand that they need to move away from people like her who have their own agenda and prejudices. The soapbox bullshit needs to stop.
50 million for acolyte I think make it anthology series with new cast and good story. Besides that I doubt it happens. Community only show come back for fans
Love the episode Harloff but I will die on a hill for Florence Pugh. Great show
I watched Dan’s video yesterday. Tough, man. I get it. Love and support him. Yet another creator I discovered through you and Ellis.
I don't think you are giving Filoni his due when it comes to directing. His ep of Ashoka with Anakin looked great as did his episode in season 2 of Mandalorian. He seems to have gotten better directing wise.
Star Wars needs to started adapting their books into live action.
There's no way a series with dismal viewership (due to bad writing and idiotic production) was going to be renewed. Disney keeps what makes them money and the Acolyte basically flushed 180mil down the toilet.
Kristian, I understand everyone has their #1 celebrity crush they’ll defend to the ends of the Earth and think that anyone who disagrees with you is crazy. I respect the dedication…but I’m with Rocha on this one. Julia Roberts was never prettier than Florence Pugh.
(please don’t block me I love your channel lol)
47:00 just because it made money, does not make it good. A lot of people do not like Toy Story 4
First time watching you guys, really enjoyed it as you aren't being jerks to either side which is really unlike some other stuff I've been recommended recently. This is realistic and logical. Good stuff! I was really looking forward to Acolyte but didn't enjoy it all and that's that, onto the next!
I wouldn’t call August brutal when Alien Romulus released. A top 3 movie of the year!
1 movie. Brutal
This whole year has been pretty brutal in terms of BO. Only a handful of movies have done really well. I did love Alien Romulus though. It's the only movie I've seen at the theaters twice this year
I wonder if John reads these comments. Here goes. John: Why on earth would you hide my comments from your channel? My comments are always respectful and supportive, aren’t they?
He can’t handle ANY criticism
@@dallaskinard3143 I defended Rocha for a very long time but i’m finally understanding the criticism he receives. Hiding non-abusive comments on his channel is just strange. I wonder how many of the others who write comments on his channel realise that no one can actually see what they’re written.