I've got into doing this, left knee up to count balance, not realising why I did it, then I noticed Fed was doing it on old footage I saw; I also back pivot to get a full rotation depending on if I contact my forehand early or late also noticed fed does this a lot also. In my net approach shot, I also drag my back toe on the ground at contact to help me not rotate. Really enjoyed this video. It was very informative.
That's a great insight - you can use this to hit a decent shot, even when you're late. I like to refer to this as "negative balance," and it's always played with this off-foot-up pattern.
That's awesome. I've had the entire range of students, from total naturals, to ones who never realized they could use their feet/legs to balance like this, and made lots of progress once they learned.
I over-rotate on the forehand, which I've just started trying to address (after several coaches and a physio basically telling me the same thing). It's only in the last couple of years I switched from an old school closed stance swing from the shoulder to semi-open stance swing from the hip, and I guess as part of making the transition I over-emphasised the hip rotation. I think this might be exactly what I need to help rein it in a bit now.
I see that in many of my students. It's totally natural to accidentally swing from one extreme to the other. Experimenting with these 3 patterns should help you tremendously. Good luck!
simply amazing video, I actually happened to discover the same thing in recent practices, except I missed the second type, thx a lot for the video and explainations!
Awesome. I suspect most players have automatically executed these kinds of movements at times, but perhaps never quite understood exactly what they were doing and why. The second one is extremely important for hitting against a heavy topspin ball. Glad you found our video. Time to practice!
thats an interesting topic I already heard about this from another coach but he mentioned that this is work of a lower body and combined with the work of upper body this is the best way to transfer the momentum. As for rotation stop force he mentioned this that head does this. Either way... I dont know what exactly this motion does but it definitely works ! :) thanks for the fascinating content.
That's absolutely right. The counter-rotational movements help to transfer the power from your early swing twisting and driving motions into your arm. It's also right that the head works in this manner as well, acting as a counter-rotational weight just like the legs do on most swings. I considered putting that into this video, as well as discussion of the off-hand on the forehand, serve, and one-handed backhand, but figured that would be too long, so I stuck to three common lower body counter-rotations.
@@FaultTolerantTennis thank you man its rare thing to meet so knowladgeble person, and yeah to me the off-arm is the key to all strokes, I think its way more important than a right hip but by some reason everybody emphasize the hip :) any chance you are coaching somewere in LA? :)
@@AlexanderAndreev1799 Nope, other side of the country. I think the reason most coaches, myself included, discuss the hips so much is that, from what we've seen, efficient off-arm usage comes more naturally to people than efficient hip usage. It is critical, though, you're absolutely right.
This is something I've developed personally by figuring out how to maximize the flow of a stroke while also maximizing balance through the stroke; especially when your body has to be dynamic through the shot. The best way to develop this is by hitting against the wall. A ball machine is typically a poor tool for developing dynamic footwork. A ball machine is good for developing stroke mechanics but after stroke mastery, the wall should be the next level of training; incorporating the stroke along with the appropriate footwork. Then a live ball against a person.
I think these kinds of movements come automatically to many players, and by extension, many coaches. It might be confusing, then, if your student isn't getting it naturally, because you've never actually thought twice about it before.
I would reference it slightly differently; you ‘throw’ the raquet, and the non-dominant side moves ‘counter’ to allow the head speed to be unimpeded (I.e. not synchronizing with the lower body).
You have a good point on the hip turn using whatever means to keep the full upper body turn. However, the point is not about having a leg in the air left or right,. The focus should be on weight transfer from right to left for righty forehand, having the full unit turn down properly.
@6:57 Pretty sure the city taxpayers whose tax dollars paid for that fence would not appreciate that girl throwing that heavy ball against it. It wasn’t meant for that. 😡 She needs to find a cement wall that was built for that activity.
Hey Aaron, thanks for the comment. Currently, we're not offering in person coaching through Fault Tolerant Tennis. We do have local in-person clients, but we both coach on public courts, or rent courts at local clubs to use. We don't have the infrastructure to offer in-person coaching at scale right now.
Is it the same for the serve, specifically "3. Pass Through The Front Foot"? Some tutorial say to load the front leg more for the serve, but if it's a pass through, then loading back leg would be better?
The issues you did not address is the use the feet correctly or how important the hip strength and pelvis positioning affects how this is executed. You do talk about using the front foot, which is absolutely correct, but in my experience it is the players ability to place the front or back foot in a dynamically correct manner. You end up with all weird and imaginative ways that are counter-productive to the final outcome. Straight legs with locked knees, leaning back into the heels, leaning on to the side of the foot, placing the front foot pointed to the sidelines or worse backwards, just to name a few. To reiterate, nothing you said here is wrong, but most people will struggle to implement any of it because of poor foot function, proprioceptive sense or the physicality particularly in the hips to follow this advice. Tennis is not a gateway sport, just like a decent level of gymnastics is not. But nobody questions how young and how long it takes for gymnasts to even begin to be proficient, where as people expect to pick up a tennis racquet and play after a few lessons.
Your point on the legs (a locked knees, etc.) is spot-on. I believe the biggest problem people have is that they don’t implement/activate the ‘degrees of freedom/power’ by flexing the ankles and bending the knees. So people try to generate power/speed from the upper body, and injure themselves. The professionals are so fit that they can focus on upper body relaxation, taking the legs for granted.
Fantastic video. Thanks
I think its quite easy to get stuck in an over rotational movement. Thanks for sharing!
Very true. I see it all the time.
Love this, thanks! Connects a lot of the dots together in my mind to why we use certain footwork patterns in certain scenarios.
Of course. Connecting the dots is what we do here.
I've got into doing this, left knee up to count balance, not realising why I did it, then I noticed Fed was doing it on old footage I saw; I also back pivot to get a full rotation depending on if I contact my forehand early or late also noticed fed does this a lot also. In my net approach shot, I also drag my back toe on the ground at contact to help me not rotate. Really enjoyed this video. It was very informative.
Your going to ruin your left shoe
That's a great insight - you can use this to hit a decent shot, even when you're late. I like to refer to this as "negative balance," and it's always played with this off-foot-up pattern.
I just did it automatically even though I was never taught and never thought of it. I guess your body has to know how to balance itself.
That's awesome. I've had the entire range of students, from total naturals, to ones who never realized they could use their feet/legs to balance like this, and made lots of progress once they learned.
Love your content. Would like to see a video on how this principle applies to other shots.
Thanks. The off-hand functions similarly to this on the serve, forehand, and one-handed backhand. I'll probably do that soon.
I over-rotate on the forehand, which I've just started trying to address (after several coaches and a physio basically telling me the same thing).
It's only in the last couple of years I switched from an old school closed stance swing from the shoulder to semi-open stance swing from the hip, and I guess as part of making the transition I over-emphasised the hip rotation.
I think this might be exactly what I need to help rein it in a bit now.
I see that in many of my students. It's totally natural to accidentally swing from one extreme to the other.
Experimenting with these 3 patterns should help you tremendously. Good luck!
its all about naturaly keeping your body balanced white hitting. great analyzing , I appreciate it . Happy holidays! :)
Yep. Practice these, they'll quickly become second nature, and your contact zone will thank you.
simply amazing video, I actually happened to discover the same thing in recent practices, except I missed the second type, thx a lot for the video and explainations!
Awesome. I suspect most players have automatically executed these kinds of movements at times, but perhaps never quite understood exactly what they were doing and why.
The second one is extremely important for hitting against a heavy topspin ball. Glad you found our video. Time to practice!
Very interesting idea thanks.
I just call it the flamingo. Been kickin that thing up all over the place
Great video! Same concept applies on the serve, I guess? Could you make a video about counterrotation on the serve? Thanks!
This could save my back while playing tennis :)
thats an interesting topic I already heard about this from another coach but he mentioned that this is work of a lower body and combined with the work of upper body this is the best way to transfer the momentum. As for rotation stop force he mentioned this that head does this. Either way... I dont know what exactly this motion does but it definitely works ! :) thanks for the fascinating content.
That's absolutely right. The counter-rotational movements help to transfer the power from your early swing twisting and driving motions into your arm.
It's also right that the head works in this manner as well, acting as a counter-rotational weight just like the legs do on most swings. I considered putting that into this video, as well as discussion of the off-hand on the forehand, serve, and one-handed backhand, but figured that would be too long, so I stuck to three common lower body counter-rotations.
@@FaultTolerantTennis thank you man its rare thing to meet so knowladgeble person, and yeah to me the off-arm is the key to all strokes, I think its way more important than a right hip but by some reason everybody emphasize the hip :) any chance you are coaching somewere in LA? :)
@@AlexanderAndreev1799 Nope, other side of the country. I think the reason most coaches, myself included, discuss the hips so much is that, from what we've seen, efficient off-arm usage comes more naturally to people than efficient hip usage. It is critical, though, you're absolutely right.
This is something I've developed personally by figuring out how to maximize the flow of a stroke while also maximizing balance through the stroke; especially when your body has to be dynamic through the shot. The best way to develop this is by hitting against the wall. A ball machine is typically a poor tool for developing dynamic footwork. A ball machine is good for developing stroke mechanics but after stroke mastery, the wall should be the next level of training; incorporating the stroke along with the appropriate footwork. Then a live ball against a person.
Wow, this is really good.
Thanks! Glad you liked it.
when I first started doing this.. I pointed out to my couch that I knew I was doing it wrong.. they just looked at me confused.. lol
I think these kinds of movements come automatically to many players, and by extension, many coaches. It might be confusing, then, if your student isn't getting it naturally, because you've never actually thought twice about it before.
Please do video about backswing timing.
Good suggestion. My next video will be about preparation and the racket flip. Hopefully it'll answer some of your questions.
@FaultTolerantTennis 🎉
I would reference it slightly differently; you ‘throw’ the raquet, and the non-dominant side moves ‘counter’ to allow the head speed to be unimpeded (I.e. not synchronizing with the lower body).
You have a good point on the hip turn using whatever means to keep the full upper body turn. However, the point is not about having a leg in the air left or right,. The focus should be on weight transfer from right to left for righty forehand, having the full unit turn down properly.
Yep. After a little while, these movements will come naturally, and your contact will be dramatically cleaner as a result.
@6:57 Pretty sure the city taxpayers whose tax dollars paid for that fence would not appreciate that girl throwing that heavy ball against it. It wasn’t meant for that. 😡 She needs to find a cement wall that was built for that activity.
i’m pretty sure that over rotating was how I hurt my back
do you do in person coaching? if so where?
Hey Aaron, thanks for the comment. Currently, we're not offering in person coaching through Fault Tolerant Tennis. We do have local in-person clients, but we both coach on public courts, or rent courts at local clubs to use. We don't have the infrastructure to offer in-person coaching at scale right now.
@@FaultTolerantTennis what is local for you?
Is it the same for the serve, specifically "3. Pass Through The Front Foot"? Some tutorial say to load the front leg more for the serve, but if it's a pass through, then loading back leg would be better?
Yes
The issues you did not address is the use the feet correctly or how important the hip strength and pelvis positioning affects how this is executed.
You do talk about using the front foot, which is absolutely correct, but in my experience it is the players ability to place the front or back foot in a dynamically correct manner. You end up with all weird and imaginative ways that are counter-productive to the final outcome. Straight legs with locked knees, leaning back into the heels, leaning on to the side of the foot, placing the front foot pointed to the sidelines or worse backwards, just to name a few.
To reiterate, nothing you said here is wrong, but most people will struggle to implement any of it because of poor foot function, proprioceptive sense or the physicality particularly in the hips to follow this advice.
Tennis is not a gateway sport, just like a decent level of gymnastics is not. But nobody questions how young and how long it takes for gymnasts to even begin to be proficient, where as people expect to pick up a tennis racquet and play after a few lessons.
Your point on the legs (a locked knees, etc.) is spot-on. I believe the biggest problem people have is that they don’t implement/activate the ‘degrees of freedom/power’ by flexing the ankles and bending the knees. So people try to generate power/speed from the upper body, and injure themselves. The professionals are so fit that they can focus on upper body relaxation, taking the legs for granted.