It looks like the black holes form at the farthest point your shots go. Maybe this character needs a lot of bullet speed? The further away the black holes, the less risk you're at and the more enemies you can get in one place to kill.
I did some testing, the black holes have a set distance, and as far as I can tell, nothing can modify that distance. Just a coincidence that it lined up that closely with the shotgun range.
I'm only about 8 minutes in, but maybe if you held your mouse cursor further away from your character? You seem to always direct it the range of your bullets, which is good for grouping up mobs to shoot, but is bad when you are trying to clear a space to run through. By creating the black hole further from you, might give you more breathing room?
The black hole placement is a little weird. The way it works is that the cursor aims it, but the hole is placed away from you a set distance. My bad if I said otherwise in the video, new character and all that.
@@emilschultz8428 Seems pretty set, I tried taking a few different upgrades to see if any of them modified them, and from what I could tell, nothing changed.
I'm not exactly sure, my guess would be that it isn't since it doesn't innately do any damage, and the damage it does deal specifies it is based off bullet damage. But who knows, maybe summon buffs do help it.
A few remarks, in order as I watched the video - Yeah, I can see the issues with actually drawing enemies closer. Aside from a change, I think a core solution is to be kill enemies behind you _without_ having to point your gun at them. So you can always walk backwards, without having to clear your travel direction. That way, the enemies will actually get stuck in the holes trying to follow you. Stuff like "Fan Fire", "shoot backwards" and "Splinter" would be a huge part of that. And it works well with a high bullet damage build anyway. - as for possible fixes: Bigger range. It having more power pulling enemies away from you - that would counteract the slingshot. - My assumed Upgrades are: Bigger Holes/Stronger force. The Ability to deal Damage. Ability to travel after being placed (hopefully away from you). Stronger force pulling the enemies away from you - Oh wow, I did not expect the Hole to be that good at getting Cthulu Face stuck. And it would be even better if you could keep your gun pointed at them for longer - more holes, quicker killing - "On end" damage. That is one way to deal damage with the Black Hole. Actually makes it good vs groups, as they will get drawn in. Also really complements the high Shot Damage Build. Bug it the bosses keep getting stuck in the holes like Cthulu Face, this might be ever more powerful against bosses as they will just keep getting hit passively. - Okay, the Reindeer being immune was a big downer. But also understandable, as without movement that boss has nothing to challenge you. - And the second you picked up Fan Fire: No more swinging around your gun wildly, mostly shooting backwards. You cut the swinging down to 90° angles, which seems okay. - It does work Okay against Coughing. Except again, you need to clear your way with this weapon - about increasing duration: Totally agreed that this implementation is bad. When you talk about "longer Black holes", I think what you mean is "more pulling the enemy away from me, then towards me". So we think alike on that. - Cosmic Burst is absolutely not what I expected. Damage in the direction of the holes is never the issue. - Parallel Star? Well, it would kinda help you have BH behind you so you can focus on the target in front of you. And it seems like it is doing exactly that - keeping your back clear, so you rarely have to turn back. - Frost mage + Fan Fire also added a lot of "back safety" potential. A frozen enemy lacks any forward momentum, so the black holes actually keep them away from you. And enemies generally have a harder time to reach you So I was 2/3 for Upgrades. I did not expect a 2nd damage one. But the last one should maybe be starting thing?
So when I say longer black holes, I don’t mean larger pull radius, I mean longer duration. The issue with increasing the range of the black holes is that it can increase the frequency that enemies are pulled into you.
@@CranberryGod I understood what your goal is: Longer black holes means more force exerted on pulling slingshots away from you. My idea was to simply directly increase the force - but only in the "away from you" direction. Farther hole should make it easier to avoid slingshots: More enemies will be pulled away, slingshots need to travel farther to reach you. I am confident a few small changes could instantly turn this into a "mostly good" mechanic.
My personal preference for changes to the ability are to change it from triggering on reload to just being a right click ability. Makes more sense to have more control over when it is placed rather than mitigate the effects of a bad placement. I’m sure there’s a ton of different solutions possible to tweak it while keeping the effect mostly the same, and I think your idea would also be a great way to fix the current issues.
Luna does indeed look terrible. I definitely think you should be looking to take Frost Mage sooner if you're getting swarmed, and Shatter has to be the best ability in the game for Luna. Also it feels like you underestimated bullet speed. Edit: ah, you got it later.
@2:48 Alright lad; I'll guess the radius +15%, amount + 1, maybe a buff to sheilding? idk it's like hardmode is trying to go harder but not sure how... Also haven't played this update, or the game for a while.
They definitely should double the duration of the black hole, and maybe make it possible to be created a little bit further, or something like it could move away from you slowly after being created. Another idea is to make the projectiles cannot pass though the black holes, maybe replace one of the perks with this ability.
I really like the idea of the black holes sucking in enemy projectiles, but I am not a programmer, and that might be tricky to code. Really cool idea though.
It reminds me of Singularities from Mass Effect, so that's gonna flavor my guesses. Longer duration, damage over time, and expanding radius over time (starts small and gets bigger until it disappears).
Well, shit. Wrong on all three. I definitely think it should lean into the crowd control role, not damage. It would help if the enemies stopped moving once they went through it, so maybe have them go to the center and stay there until the black hole ends, and buff the duration and radius. As is, I think you'd be better off using a different gun. The shotgun puts too many black holes out and there and I think you'd be better off with only one on the field at a time early game
@@masterworklongsword I also agree that I would prefer the passive upgrades to be more cc focused, or maybe even just upgrades to the character that helped capitalize on the enemies being grouped up. Like maybe one of the upgrades just gives her +1 piercing. In regards to the shotgun choice, you are probably right that it was creating too many black holes, but I think like the end of the video sorta demonstrates, you can sorta come out the other side and create so many black holes that you kinda just lock down every enemy on the screen, which is really cool. Just gotta survive long enough to get there.
That last blackhole perk is a really helpful one. It literally offsets the issue you were having with enemies being pulled into you. I'd say this is a perfect character for gaining xp quickly.
I agree, the last perk definitely felt the most impactful, but the Implosion perk might be really strong with the grenade launcher, maybe even a weird miniclip grenade launcher build. It is also nice the the black holes cluster up the exp for you.
@@CranberryGod Do you know if the bullets that come from the black holes are the same as your gun's bullets? It looked like they were at the end. I don't know if they'd give you an ability _that_ bad with the grenade launcher, but they did make Splinter one of the best abilities in the game...
@@jgray2718 Tomorrow's episode should be checking out the grenade launcher, you'll find out then =) (I'm not trying to be coy here, I just haven't recorded the episode yet.)
i haven't beaten the game but i was messing around with aftershock and crossbow before luna came out, and they work pretty good with her, tho the displacement did mess me up too, you gotta remember and think about an extra thing all the time when playing her, at least for people that like to shoot a path forward and reload often.
The real 20 minutes speedrun happens whenever a new character or weapon drops
This ability is perfect with the new bow.
I tend to aim behind my character anyway, so the black hole is rarely in my escape path
It looks like the black holes form at the farthest point your shots go. Maybe this character needs a lot of bullet speed? The further away the black holes, the less risk you're at and the more enemies you can get in one place to kill.
I did some testing, the black holes have a set distance, and as far as I can tell, nothing can modify that distance. Just a coincidence that it lined up that closely with the shotgun range.
Grenade launcher mini clip?!?!?!?
I'm only about 8 minutes in, but maybe if you held your mouse cursor further away from your character? You seem to always direct it the range of your bullets, which is good for grouping up mobs to shoot, but is bad when you are trying to clear a space to run through. By creating the black hole further from you, might give you more breathing room?
The black hole placement is a little weird. The way it works is that the cursor aims it, but the hole is placed away from you a set distance. My bad if I said otherwise in the video, new character and all that.
@@CranberryGod is it set or does it link with bullet speed?
@@emilschultz8428 Seems pretty set, I tried taking a few different upgrades to see if any of them modified them, and from what I could tell, nothing changed.
@@CranberryGod In the beggining of the run it seemed like its Range was capped by your vision range. Did you try that one out?
@@Gerifant Yep, I noticed that too, tested it out, vision range is not a factor.
Does it count as a summon?
I'm not exactly sure, my guess would be that it isn't since it doesn't innately do any damage, and the damage it does deal specifies it is based off bullet damage. But who knows, maybe summon buffs do help it.
A few remarks, in order as I watched the video
- Yeah, I can see the issues with actually drawing enemies closer. Aside from a change, I think a core solution is to be kill enemies behind you _without_ having to point your gun at them. So you can always walk backwards, without having to clear your travel direction. That way, the enemies will actually get stuck in the holes trying to follow you.
Stuff like "Fan Fire", "shoot backwards" and "Splinter" would be a huge part of that. And it works well with a high bullet damage build anyway.
- as for possible fixes: Bigger range. It having more power pulling enemies away from you - that would counteract the slingshot.
- My assumed Upgrades are: Bigger Holes/Stronger force. The Ability to deal Damage. Ability to travel after being placed (hopefully away from you). Stronger force pulling the enemies away from you
- Oh wow, I did not expect the Hole to be that good at getting Cthulu Face stuck. And it would be even better if you could keep your gun pointed at them for longer - more holes, quicker killing
- "On end" damage. That is one way to deal damage with the Black Hole. Actually makes it good vs groups, as they will get drawn in. Also really complements the high Shot Damage Build. Bug it the bosses keep getting stuck in the holes like Cthulu Face, this might be ever more powerful against bosses as they will just keep getting hit passively.
- Okay, the Reindeer being immune was a big downer. But also understandable, as without movement that boss has nothing to challenge you.
- And the second you picked up Fan Fire: No more swinging around your gun wildly, mostly shooting backwards. You cut the swinging down to 90° angles, which seems okay.
- It does work Okay against Coughing. Except again, you need to clear your way with this weapon
- about increasing duration: Totally agreed that this implementation is bad. When you talk about "longer Black holes", I think what you mean is "more pulling the enemy away from me, then towards me". So we think alike on that.
- Cosmic Burst is absolutely not what I expected. Damage in the direction of the holes is never the issue.
- Parallel Star? Well, it would kinda help you have BH behind you so you can focus on the target in front of you. And it seems like it is doing exactly that - keeping your back clear, so you rarely have to turn back.
- Frost mage + Fan Fire also added a lot of "back safety" potential. A frozen enemy lacks any forward momentum, so the black holes actually keep them away from you. And enemies generally have a harder time to reach you
So I was 2/3 for Upgrades. I did not expect a 2nd damage one. But the last one should maybe be starting thing?
So when I say longer black holes, I don’t mean larger pull radius, I mean longer duration. The issue with increasing the range of the black holes is that it can increase the frequency that enemies are pulled into you.
@@CranberryGod I understood what your goal is: Longer black holes means more force exerted on pulling slingshots away from you.
My idea was to simply directly increase the force - but only in the "away from you" direction.
Farther hole should make it easier to avoid slingshots: More enemies will be pulled away, slingshots need to travel farther to reach you.
I am confident a few small changes could instantly turn this into a "mostly good" mechanic.
My personal preference for changes to the ability are to change it from triggering on reload to just being a right click ability. Makes more sense to have more control over when it is placed rather than mitigate the effects of a bad placement. I’m sure there’s a ton of different solutions possible to tweak it while keeping the effect mostly the same, and I think your idea would also be a great way to fix the current issues.
Luna does indeed look terrible. I definitely think you should be looking to take Frost Mage sooner if you're getting swarmed, and Shatter has to be the best ability in the game for Luna. Also it feels like you underestimated bullet speed.
Edit: ah, you got it later.
I'll take anything new. There's not enough perks so each run feels really similar.
@2:48 Alright lad; I'll guess the radius +15%, amount + 1, maybe a buff to sheilding? idk it's like hardmode is trying to go harder but not sure how... Also haven't played this update, or the game for a while.
Amount +1 gets 90% credit, you just left out the part where it goes behind you.
They definitely should double the duration of the black hole, and maybe make it possible to be created a little bit further, or something like it could move away from you slowly after being created. Another idea is to make the projectiles cannot pass though the black holes, maybe replace one of the perks with this ability.
I really like the idea of the black holes sucking in enemy projectiles, but I am not a programmer, and that might be tricky to code. Really cool idea though.
Imagine playing Luna on endless mode it will be chaos
You should definetly try the game called Slay the Spire its basically like a card turn based rpg game
I have played a little over 1000 hours of slay the spire, very good game, but I am extremely burnt out on it.
It reminds me of Singularities from Mass Effect, so that's gonna flavor my guesses. Longer duration, damage over time, and expanding radius over time (starts small and gets bigger until it disappears).
Well, shit. Wrong on all three.
I definitely think it should lean into the crowd control role, not damage. It would help if the enemies stopped moving once they went through it, so maybe have them go to the center and stay there until the black hole ends, and buff the duration and radius.
As is, I think you'd be better off using a different gun. The shotgun puts too many black holes out and there and I think you'd be better off with only one on the field at a time early game
@@masterworklongsword I also agree that I would prefer the passive upgrades to be more cc focused, or maybe even just upgrades to the character that helped capitalize on the enemies being grouped up. Like maybe one of the upgrades just gives her +1 piercing. In regards to the shotgun choice, you are probably right that it was creating too many black holes, but I think like the end of the video sorta demonstrates, you can sorta come out the other side and create so many black holes that you kinda just lock down every enemy on the screen, which is really cool. Just gotta survive long enough to get there.
this character seems like a chaotic nightmare lol
That last blackhole perk is a really helpful one.
It literally offsets the issue you were having with enemies being pulled into you.
I'd say this is a perfect character for gaining xp quickly.
I agree, the last perk definitely felt the most impactful, but the Implosion perk might be really strong with the grenade launcher, maybe even a weird miniclip grenade launcher build. It is also nice the the black holes cluster up the exp for you.
@@CranberryGod Do you know if the bullets that come from the black holes are the same as your gun's bullets? It looked like they were at the end. I don't know if they'd give you an ability _that_ bad with the grenade launcher, but they did make Splinter one of the best abilities in the game...
@@jgray2718 Tomorrow's episode should be checking out the grenade launcher, you'll find out then =) (I'm not trying to be coy here, I just haven't recorded the episode yet.)
i haven't beaten the game but i was messing around with aftershock and crossbow before luna came out, and they work pretty good with her, tho the displacement did mess me up too, you gotta remember and think about an extra thing all the time when playing her, at least for people that like to shoot a path forward and reload often.