Shogun 2 Noob-ceptions: Yari Samurai are Useless
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
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I'm a big proponent for more Yari Samurai usage in both single and multiplayer.
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"You'll typically have a large core of samurai" *laughs in Oda*
Oda Long Yari are samurai in disguise, turns out.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I'm mopping up the last few provinces in my first play through, I literally havent recruited anything but basic Yari and Bow Ashigaru. I think Ill need to crank the difficulty up from hard.
@@Moredakkamus regendary
Shogun 2 is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits.
Whilst long yaris and gunners are good, its fun to have stronger single fighting units and because you have a lot of money to wastr
Want to use Yari Samurai? Play as Hattori, just place them near the enemy, then click rapid advance.
That is so true. Yari Samurai flank the cav units from 5 feet away is so fun in Hattori.
To be fair for the first statement, I remember vividly as a new player fielding large amounts of katana samurai. That is the noob friendly unit that favors the “samurai must be better” category. There’s a reason most people’s starting campaigns were the Shimazu.
I was an oda enjoyer from my first game up to the last tho, there is something about massive numbers of common people beating up their superiors through team work and discipline that appeals to me more than the whole doomstack fantasy most people have
@@bernard3303Me too but i didn't knew the Oda was a powerful clan, it was with them that i won for the first time, a campaign in the game, my first campaign though, was with the Chosokabe, i was a kid so i fucked up, but it was fun too.
Shimazu left side of the map close to lot of ports why not
I play shimazu often only because I could convert to Christianity for them sweet sweet cannons while not having to deal with too many neighbors and also for the heavy gunners
Can't relate. Date and the No-Dachi big sword boys were my starting campaign. I took up Shimazu next though.
Yari ashigaru is powerful early game when the AI is spamming and cheating out yari samurai stacks, which it doesn't know how to use effectively. But Bow samurai, even in AI hands becomes the crux of the campaign later on. I feel like, even on legendary - I naturally progress to more and more aggressive armies as the campaign goes on. One single well placed katana samurai or yari samurai flank can turn the whole battle around - especially against late game horror stacks - Naginata/Bow samurai. They also bring lots of yari cav, so 1 unit of yari samurai could potentially kill up to 5 or 6 units of cavalry totally independent of their own supporting units.
Yeah AI Bows get very noticeable buffs to accuracy and reload, making it harder to take advantage of Yari Wall.
Agressive is warrior monks/nuns, katana cav (as flanking infantry when dismounted) and yari cav.
Though I always played Christian for the ships and eventually everyone fights you anyway.
Bow samurai doom stacks are so dangerous against light armor units, in Legendary you need armor buff for your infantry or powerful charge cavalry to deal with. And yeah, Naginata Samurai + Bow heavy units are a very deadly combo.
"This guy did not play Oda"
@@Klongu_Da_Bongu but the oda get the long ashigaru, pretty much doubles the stats and gives em a longer weapon.
What they don't tell you is you can put long ashigaru in spear wall, and then place a regular asigaru inside the spear line, and the tips will still be well out past the regulars.
Double ashigaru wall is goated.
Defending a siege with 3 long ashigarus and 3 regulars, and 3 bow sam
Yes u can easily defeat a 2k plus doom stack, ai anyways.
There is also the strategy of recruiting yari sam in a blacksmith province. Even with moderate upgrades to the blacksmith, you get the fastest infantry unit with the highest base melee defence, with adequate armour to tank arrows, enough attack to handily beat katana samurai from the front, and is immune to cavalry.
I need to test how much bonus armour is needed. It maybe that plus 2 armour is just enough. So you can go for encampment > armourer get +2 armour and then go for weaponsmith +4 melee and you get best of both worlds. +6 melee often not necessary, +5 armour I am not so sure. :) On the other hand , your units becoming veterans and your General traits and skills also give bonus melee but nothing gives bonus armour. So many options :D
The reason why there's such misconception is because yari ashigaru have spear-wall ability, and their cheap price recruitment and upkeep. While Yari samurai have rapid advance instead and the higher price of recruitment and upkeep, really making most of people pick yari ashigaru instead of yari samurai.
Also Yari Ashigaru can be recruited from any castle while Yari Samurai need a Yari dojo
You know, that's the thing that i always thought was weird... why would the Yari Samurai NOT have Spear Wall? Maybe have them use the same spears as Yari Ashigaru and make it longer for someone to acquire them as well?
@@blue_ocean7774 because that would make Yari Ashigaru quite obsolete, contrary to what most people think I believe Yari Samurai are perfectly fine as they are, a specialist spear unit that can operate independently of your main force, whereas Ashigaru will rout in such scenarios without experience.
@@blue_ocean7774 Their role is completely different than that of the Yari Ashigaru. I use tham as cavalry I don't have to babysit all the time. Or if you have a couple of them as your first battle line you can make them rush the enemy archers, followed by a ine of yari wall advancing slowly.
Yari samurai are one of the most versatile units in the game together with naginata samurai, they make ideal reserve troops near your flanks to fill in the gaps, counter enemy cavalry flanking, to flank on their own etc... and as others mentioned, you can send them out without worrying about them at all. they can kill cavalry very easily, even if they are fighting on 3 sides they can hold out respectably and if there is a bad infantry fight they can simply run away
I often use yari samurai when playing as Hattori, because they also have kisho training which makes them really good for baiting enemies from their flank while my main army charges enemy's front. I also use them for killing enemy general by placing them behind the enemy. Their rapid advance is really fast against non-cavalry unit and also increase their charge
Even if spear Samurai were useless, that burst of speed really makes them useful for winning infantry engagements and picketing cavalry. I really do wish they got the spear wall though
spear wall + rapid advance = ???
that would be insane lol
What is; spear square
Man I wish Naginata had that run ability. :D I think in Fots every "Samurai" unit gets Banzai which is superior version of running ability as it also gives bonus charge damage. :D
That's why there's a mod that give Yari Sam yari wall ability.
In competitive online pvp, I saw yari samurai quite often compared to many people’s belief. Meanwhile, I don’t see people use naginata samurai that much like yari samurai as they always get rekt by katana samurai as main line units and less effective as anti Calvary unit. Being a jack of all trade is a red flag because they are good at nothing, it’s always better to have 1 katana and 1 yari sam instead of 2 naginata sam in pvp imo.
I always loved it when my opponents brought a main line of naginata samurai to cover their bow units because my win rate was high against that army. And yes rapid advanced in this game is quite amazing, tho I only brought maximum of 2 yari sam, or sometimes only 1.
Honestly yari samurai are a way better jack of all trades than naginata samurai in pvp imo.
Once yari samurai are upgraded (even just by 2 chevrons) their melee attack can go from 8 > 12, they have (I think) a defence stat of 11, plus they have a way bigger anti cav bonus than naginata and are tankier than ashigaru.
So they can be a decent unit to hold the line or great anti cav unit or even flanking infantry because of that rapid advance ability.
In pvp I'm much more cautious with my cavalry against yari samurai than naginata samurai.
Well PvP is totally different than the campaign because you are playing against another person who can actually think and innovative and also your stats are the same. Playing the campaign is about making up for the stats disadvantage at high difficulty and exploiting the stupid ai.
Yari Samurai are good for flanking and useful as early game shock troops or supporting Yari Ashigaru lines. Place them on the flanks of army and send them against the most necessary positions to take. In early game this can win you a number of hard battles.
Yari Samurai are great as a guard unit for the general. They can buy time for the general to escape ambushing units and can slaughter attacking cavalry.
I remember wanting to vomit when a stack of Yari Sam with 4 star general show his face to my castle and the only thing guarding it is 2 yari Ash and Sam retainer.
Only lost like 70 while the enemy is finished.
Those battles are always the most satisfying
I was running the Jaki unit mod and there is Yari Mob which is "worse" than the Yari Ashigaru. It shreds katana samurai in defensive siege
How do you even do that
I think most players play very lazy playstyle of sitting with a yari ashigaru line and an archer line while flanking the opponent's archer line with yari cav so they prefer armored yari ashigaru and then naginata samurai in late game.
The more micro skill you have the more varied army you will prefer. I prefer using katana cav to flank infantry and yari cav to flank archer line, while having yari ashigaru in early game and then naginata warrior monks with +armor to hold front line. I also use bow cav for baiting and skirmish and ninjas late game to kill high priority targets like general or bow samurai. I dont use bow infantry at all since I never defend on open field.
For an aggressive playstyle bow cav does the job best. Yari samurai is essential since enemy ai field yari cav and will charge them out against bow cav or general if it gets the chance. Yari Samurai are the best unit to intercept charging or flanking cav. Slowass yari ashigarus will never catch them.
Proof of this is how early Shogun 2 MP meta was nothing but Naginata Samurai spam, meanwhile today decent and high-level players will almost never recruit them. They are the game's noob trap, a form of training wheels; if you're playing on Legendary or in competitive MP specialist units > versatile. At the same time Yari Samurai are brought to the field as much as Ashigaru, sometimes more so. The same thing happens with No-dachi vs Katana interestingly: the better you get at the game, the more No-dachi's pull away from Katana's.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Thing is MP the odds are pretty even. Same stats. No suicidal unit tendencies or atleast its even. And you got humans controlling the units without using scripts preferably. However if youd really gave the Battle AI a proper ruleset and options to choose fed it moves like a chess computer, the CPU can simultanesouly chose a strategy, several tactics, and maneuver and micro all units at the same time.
For a human player the more specialised a unit the more micro intensive and and prone to failure it is if you even blink for a second and need to switch attention considering how fast paced the fights are in Shogun 2. So its higher risk potentially higher reward. But you pay risk first before you can reap the reward. So why gamble if you can minimise risks?
Never disrespect the horse killers.
sounds about right. You need yari sam for naginanta sam any way and in anything below legendary there isn't a reason not to have fun with different units
Yari Samurai are actually more useful the higher up you go. The morale advantage over Ashigaru is huge for fighting multiple high quality cavalry and hunting down the General with just one unit.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 really? what about the upkeep costs or are those neglibile with trade
@@gabrielnguyen5580 I only recruit 1 or 2 max in a stack.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 ah so just enough to cover flanks and stuff then
@@gabrielnguyen5580 yup, Yari Ashigaru are still the main line
i changed my opinion alot with those guys. used to think they were complete garbage, but tbh, rapid advance makes up for it.
in campaign, you can just get the attack upgrade, and they should deal just fine, even against katana samurai. on top of that, rapid advance is an incedible ability, it recharges relatively fast, and when used for flanking, they can go around uncontested, since cavalry doesnt want to pick that fight.
They're beasts in Fall of the Samurai, best melee infantry unit.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 But the problem in FOTS is that there is no point in getting katana samurai. Radious fixes this a bit by giving all traditional units either banzai or rapid advance.
@@Klongu_Da_Bongu Laughs in Shogitai.
Clearly unarmoured Katana fanatics beat everything. Afaik I know there is a fanatic unit like that can even shoot rifles first then Banzai Charge. When armour means nothing because of gunpowder, having no armour at all makes absolute sense. :D
i had an online multiplayer game where i had long Oda Ashigaru units upgraded as well dont remember how much but i made 2 lines one in front and one just a little behind the trick was that i drew all my friends swords in and i came with the second line and made it advance straight through to some longer distance behind them and eventurly all his troops broke within minutes and fell in the thousends so OP just like Rome total war Phalanx wall XD
to mutch ppl forget that the yari samurai is a light infantry and should be used as such, for anything that isn't holding the line they are verry usefull, thanks to their rapid advance and their high morale you can use them as "piercing" units good for encercling or even rush their archer if the ennemy is too focused in the line, also their pair very well with matchlock units, as you can use them to hold ennemy if you made a mistake or intercept cav and deny good grounds overall my favorite unit not usefull most of the time but I see them as veterant only taking part in the fight if the situation call for them.
I always keep the first Yari Samurai you start with in campaign, if nothing else it has the longest time to gain experience, and has a niche in screening/guarding cavalry/hunting cavalry that the improved stats via exp helps with.
I used to think that Yari Samurai are extremely useless.
However, after being frustrated of my Uesugi plays even on Very Hard difficulty, I decided to give them a go because enemy AI tend to field Bow Samurai and Yari Ashigaru are susceptible to bows due to their low armor. Also, despite spear wall being OP, Yari Ashigaru aren't fast enough. Also, I need flanking powers due to Warrior Monks having weak armor and being unavailable in the early game.
The result? I started winning more battles especially when I am on the offensive. Because the Takeda tend to be extremely aggressive and being the Takeda, they would mostly field cavalry. Cavalry are of course, naturally weak to spear infantry.
Yari Wall is super useful, Yari Ashigaru are super cheap and upgrades affect them disproportionally, due to the flat nature of upgrades. BUT: Yari Wall is not as good as people seem to think. There is this meme going around that Yari Wall makes Yari Ashigaru the single most powerful unit in melee. This is not true. A basic unit of Yari Ashigaru in Yari Wall lose to a basic unit of Melee Infantry Samurai in ALL CASES except for Yari Samurai. I guess people confuse the strategic advantage the AI gives us by being overly-aggressive, meaning that we often fight defensive battles, meaning that we very often have the tactical advantage of high ground, people therefore see Yari Wall defeat Katana Samurai, not realising that this is mainly due to the high ground bonus.
As an addendum to this: I just tested 9 XP Naginata Samurai vs 9 XP Yari Ashigaru in Yari Wall. The Naginata Samurai still won, but it was by a tiny margin. Actually the magin is so tiny that it seems that they have the same killing potential (meaning on a unit level, this also means that those Naginata Samurai entities have higher killing potential since they are fewer), but the higher morale of the Naginata Samurai made the Yari Ashigaru break first. With a 0 XP set-up, the Naginata Samurai has about 15 more men than the Yari Ashigaru when the Yari Ashigaru break. This shows the disproportional effect of upgrades on low-stat units.
Intresting story i was once playing against an ai which bought yari ashigaru, they put it in yari wall on a hill and I sent two katan samurai to kill it thinking it would be an easy fight only to have both units mauled badly and I had to send some calvary to reinforce that flank.
Yari Ashigaru is the best melee infantry in the sense that it gives the best performance for its price, but no it doesn’t make it invulnerable to things like Katana Samurai and Naginata Samurai even though some people seem to think it does. Generally though, at least on higher difficulties, you can get multiple Yari Ashigaru for the same price as one Naginata/Katana samurai which makes them a better choice. Later on though it’s worth replacing them.
@@TriAzF At a certain point money becomes fairly bottlenecked as long as your campaign is not a disaster, and then it is usually better to get samurai in my opinion. Also, I like to play with the extra challenge of having as few casualties as possible, and samurai units usually take way fewer.
@@Osvath97 Yeah I agree later on they’re worth replacing since the main advantage of the Yari Ashigaru, their low cost, becomes less helpful since you get enough money to afford samurai.
I remember when I was starting at this game. I tried to follow the logic from Napoleon: ,,I need a wall of infantry to create a frontline - a _lot_ of infantry". It was natural to me to use Yari Ashigaru at first, back then mainly to protect my bowmen at the back. These bowmen would destroy their Katana Samurai or other close-range units, Yari Ashigaru would protect me from any potential calvary charge I might face, I'd charge in, and win.
Then I checked the advantages of each clans and saw, that Oda has good Ashigaru - and since they were making a backbone of my army, this would give me an advantage (didn't know it would be this high). I'd also always have some spare koki, which I'd spend on one unit of Yari Samurai - after all, Samurai means better than Ashigaru, right? I could never previously understand, why these Samurai would perform much, much worse than Ashigaru.
Whilst playing as the oda i often have very long lines of units next to each other (due to the size of the army and needing as much width to utilise all my matchlocks) in that case having 2 or so units of yarisam’s behind the line to punish flanking cavalry is a must since having my yari ashigarus turn around defeats the entire point of the yari wall!
With the awesome Patch 1.7 mod, yari samurai also get yari square, which is awesome for baiting AI cav
mods should not be accounted for when discussing balance, mods are literally cheating.
Honestly the only thing that KILLS Yari samurai for me is their COST. 150 Koku for a Jack of all Trades master of none unit with the ability to SPRINT which increases their charge bonus by 2. And given most clans have a Yari drill school at the start of the game, you would think they would be good and they are.....to a point. (way of the spear joke)
Early on they just don't make up for their upkeep (if only they where like 20 or 30 koku cheaper), not to mention the Retainers in every castle rip them to shreds. Meanwhile Naginata samurai are THE SAME UPKEEP, but are tankyer, can deal with infantry and cavalry reasonably well and can actually fight a dude with a sword and not DIE in 5 seconds. Still when used properly they have their uses.
Yari Samurai are the only unit you start out with that has good morale, and that is a huge advantage in the early turns which is also the most crucial phase of any campaign. Most factions need to wait 5-6 turns to even get Katana Samurai, or a few turns to get Light Cavalry; later on in the campaign they retain a specialist role of general-hunting, which they are more cost-effective at than cavalry, since you need 2-3 cavalry units to efficiently dispose of a general in a timely manner, while Yari Ashigaru are unreliable in this role due to morale, and Naginata Samurai are too slow to perform this as well as Yari Samurai.
and yari ronin, while lacking rapid advance, have 50% cheaper upkeep compared to yari samurai- the only ronin unit cheaper than its samurai counterpart. this makes them a cost effective unit for the ikko ikki, especially useful if you specialize in upgrading their armour, the highest available level of armor for the ikko ikki as they don't have access to naginata samurai. on top of that, yari ronin actually beat yari samurai in a 1v1.
I'm thinking of using about 4 when I try my legendary otomo campaign. With a front line of Portuguese tercos I'll need something to stop my front line being shredded by cav
I think the game doesnt do the best job of telling you that the yari samurai are basically a completely different class of unit compared to yari ashigaru. yari ashigaru are a defensive unit that counter charges and bolster armies, yari samurai are like a nimble early anti cav and ambush unit that use short spears they are more like worse naginata samurai then better yari ashigaru.
I've read a theory that they are in fact supposed to have access to Spear Square; the only unit to gain access to it is Yari Hero and they are gotten after researching the formation.
If so then it's very clear that the developers may have intended for the unit to perform a certain role, whereas in the actual released game their use case morphed into something else entirely.
It's an interesting example of how, so long as the fundamental base mechanics of the game are solid (morale, flanking, elevation) then even bugged or "bad" units can find their own niche.
I'll always be a yari sam advocate.
I try to have 1 in all of my armies, especially in the late game they are extremely potent at striking at high ranking enemy generals during siege defenses.
Me watching this video knowing full well I have infinite morale and energy mods for my custom battles:
Correct
They are a bait and flanking unit more then main line unit which makes using one or two is enough
Most of the time cavelry can do there job
But what shown in video is a very fit for there job
Yeah cavalry become much slower when they lose stamina so it's not a good idea to use them as a bait; and they're more expensive as well.
There's a "Yari wall for Yari Samurai mod", it's in the workshop.
Don't need to thank me. 😉
In Shogun, I never used ashigaru because their cowardice was a liability that would panic the rest of the army. In Shogun 2, they're almost as strong as samurai for half price, which usually means a lot of flanked fancy-boys.
In armies where I don’t have much calvary i like to have 2 yari samurai on the sides. Putting them in loose formation they act as a fantastic cav shield
I use Yari Sam in loose formation to act as cavalry nets.
i had Hand Cannons & Special Ninjas for surprise moral whacky mechanics
Nice quick info 👍
It’s really two different use cases. Ashigaru for holding the line either on offense or defense, and yari samurai for flanking or as a reserve force.
Yari Samurai are only good in a kind of niche role between line infantry and mobile flanking cavalry: You have maybe 1-2 of them in a full army, where you mainly use them in a defensive role to prevent enemy melee cavalry from flanking maneuvers/hammer and anvils on your line infantry, or in rarer cases, you can use them as attacking flanking infantry.
This should be self evident with their rapid advance special skill.
I think yari samurai are great to have in Date, Takeda and Hojo comps tbh
One trick to circumvent the morale issue is to level up your ashigaru and to have an Ashigaru Leader General. Its not easy but its feasible. Thatswhy having a lot of Generals and Hero units does matter the morale boost they give can make or break your yari ashigaru formation. :)
I like using Yari samurai because they are more historically accurate😂
As opposed to Yari Samurai, Naginata Samurai are beasts.
I was playing against my friend and I nearly had my entire Chosokabe Asigaru Army route on me. I retreated to a Hill with whatever I had left, that is, Two semi broken Bow Ashigaru, one damaged Bow Samurai, 2 reserve undamaged Yari units, 5 dudes on my General's Unit and 2 Naginatas with only half the men remaining on each. 8 Units VS 18.
My friend Charged Thrice Up the Hill and the Naginatas broke his Army thrice. After that Battle, Naginatas became our Meta.
Try naginata samurai against anyone fielding matchlocks (basically everyone in multiplayer)
Naginata samurai have been one of the worst units in MP for years
Yari Samurai are faster and better anti cavalry to cover flanks
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498oh yeah, 100%. Fiund out after consecutively losing my first 10 online matches. But I still keep a couple of Naginatas around for Anti Infantry role but now as reserves. That one match made me have a soft spot for Naginata units. Plus they help my defensive playstyle as calavry almost always gets behind my lines in Shogun.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498naginata samurai in single player are top tier line holder units. In mp they are garbage and irelevant.
if you happen to have no horse nodes near by for cav and everyone hates you and wont trade yari samurai are decent.. just use them properly as anti cav and flankers
Don't get rid of the unit when you start campaign. But I wouldn't train them, they should come with a formation similar to yari wall they are samurai better trained
They are still valuable for taking out enemy cavalry. If I'm in a fort defense and I need a single spear unit to get the enemy general, samurai are a much better option, yari ashigaru will be routed before they can do anything meaningful just by virtue of being outnumbered.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 that's a good point, the beastly yari ashigaru usually route before they can kill the general. I usually just take out the general with my archers rather than a yari sam
They serve different roles, if they had yari wall it would be the ashigaru unit that would become obsolete which would damage the already low unit variety with two redundant units that do the same thing, not to mention it is ahistorical. With yari samurai as they are they fill a fun specialized niche that no other unit really fills, my only gripe with them is that they don't have yari square like the game implies they should have after unlocking the tech for it, which feels like an oversight.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 there is better late game anti-cav unit then yari samurai, its called Long yari ashigaru (Oda only unit) and any other naginata armed unit (or bulletpruf samurai if you are Date).
@@madkoala2130 naginata samurai are way too slow to do general hunting or kiting, and warrior monks should generally be fighting infantry; yari samurai are the specialist strike force infantry, fighting off multiple cavalry units without needing micro and going for the general.
They're very good during siege defenses as a cavalry bait; place one yari samurai outside and watch the enemy pile its cavalry onto it. An Ashigaru unit will likely rout if they don't have experience or morale buffs.
The only thing they really have going for them is the rapid advance. If I want speedy anti-cav, then I'd rather get some yari/ light cav.
Yari samurai are still way more durable than cavalry units, they still work great for defeating multiple cavalry units in a cost effective manner.
Your own cavalry are much better suited to hunting down infantry
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Yari samurai also can't hunt cav, they can only react to attacking cav. With light/ yari cav you can go around the flank and attack from the back into the bow line and generals. If you'd pull of that maneuver with yari samurai the battle will be as good as over before they arrive.
Yari Ashigaru are only valuable because the AI is an idiot who won't just out mobility the yari wall them or win the ranged duel. You also forgot the other key advantage that rapid advance lets Yari Samurai actually get to walls intact enough to bully archers at the top, meanwhile Ashigaru you need 2 units to bully 1 ranged.
If you are extremely desperate to rush to the top of a hill, then rush with your yari and katana cav units and dismount them to hold ground against enemy spear units. Yari sam is not useless, but there is a better/ more cost effective choice for any situation.
i don't know, cavalry are smaller and they won't last nearly as long, and there's the strong chance your horses will be scattered leaving you at a disadvantage for the rest of the battle. It may be better to force the enemy off the hill at that point.
An full Samurai army is an army just waiting to get bullied by guns and yarı wall. An full Ashigaru army is waiting to get a boo from the back and then crumble to dust. A building needs both concrete and iron bars to hold it
Mod the sam yari ti have square formation.
From 0/100 to 100/100 recommended, a bliss for the matchlocks with fire by rank
I suspect they remove that skill for them in the last minute, because you can clearly see a t3 tech for yari that only 1 unit can use that skill (yari hero). T3 tech for give one single unit an ability that has no use to the hero units? Yeah. Somethings off
The reason why was how obanarga used ashigaru
Yari samurai are the shit.
The best against gunpowder or fos armies although alone they are trash, when you charge gun lines use 2 or 3 yari samurai spread thin af in front of you katana core and charge at the gun line. Use rapid advance as soon as the gun units fire and they will make contact before the second volley of even veteren units. And hold them until the katanas make contact shortly after
Wouldn't No Dachi / Shogitai be better suited in that role with Banzai?
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 awesome name first off
And yes bonzai is good for morale but the key to my specific rush is the speed.
My yari samurais are fast af upgraded with second wind on not tired they are Almost as fast as horses I swear.
You hit second wind as they take the first volley by the time they go to fire again you'll have made contact. Stopping the shooting. And then with your katanas right behind you switch agg, and make your yari samurais continue through to the next line as well if you have too.
I can't speak for plains. But my veteren yari sam's can take 3 volleys of serious gun units like a marine. They get shredded but do the job.
I got a few decisive dubs as full kosumoto no firearms against guns and I only lost half of each yari sam unit 2 or 3
Yari samurai can be good, but it takes a lot of micro. Yari ashigaru can just spear wall and hold a position while I micro more effective units like cavalry
Early game I may keep 2 yari samurai in my army to cover my flanks against cavalry since their speed ability makes them good at catching cav. Late game though my cav will usually outnumber and outclass enemy cav, so they're then rendered pointless for that task as well.
Typically to fix this issue I use mods to give yari wall to yari samurai.
cavalry vs cavalry should be avoided wherever possible because cavalry are most effective at targeting infantry
they are just too expensive to use in an anti cavalry role, yari samurai are capable of tanking hits unlike cavalry
I understand your arguments, but I do think in the end there are very few situations in which those advantages will be an essential game changer. Even if at certain moments they will be better than Yari Ashigaru I would prefer having more cav or archers complementing my Yari Ashigaru instead of any Yari Samurai.
my point is the comparison to Yari Ashigaru often misses the point entirely when people suggest Samurai should have spear wall or spear square
they are a specialist unit who will excel in specific scenarios and there is nothing wrong with that
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I still disagree because, in the end, the scenarios are so specific that it isn't worth it and other units can perform in the same situation and still be more flexible, so there are always better alternatives. Maybe they shouldn't have spear wall or spear square, but as they are they are never worth the trade-off with any other unit that could be in their place. I have never seen a battle where having a few fast infantry units or some spear units that could operate without support for a little while (and it is only a little while, as any unit left completely alone will be ganged up and destroyed) was essential. When a specialist unit is so specialist its use is that restricted it ends up being better to go for more general multi-purpose ones.
I regularly have siege defenses where i realize i would get so much mileage out of 1 yari samurai
They are the best unit for taking out cavalry and generals because cavalry vs cavalry is always a messy fight.
I would rather use my cavalry for anti infantry which is what they excel at
Yari samurai are more than capable of being a decivise unit
Nothing's wrong with using good'ol Phalanx. Yari Samurai as a hoplite protecting my Ashigaru flanks and rear and some to charge in and hold the line while I setting up my Spear wall.
The enemy general is dead, my lord!
I use spearmen only as anti-cav, so usually, I need only 3-4. So, General+6 Cav+3 Yari Samurai+3 Bow Samurai does well against enemy Cav and Bows, while 7 Katana Samurai cut through enemy infantry in the center. I don't know about Naginata, because I remember losing to an army that had at least 9-10 Katana Samurai, while I had 4 Katana, 4 Naginata, 4 Yari, 4 Bow, and 3 Cav (tried to have a balanced army). Their 10 Katana just chopped all my infantry, while AI had enough Cav to counter my 3 Cav and a General.
P.S. by taking 3 units per type formula, I'm trying to mimic the real European army organisation formula, which is 3:1. 3 Companies forms a Batallion, 3 Batallions forms a Regiment (or a Brigade, by modern means, if it has all the elements to make it autonomous). Basically, in Total War terms, if we have a stack, that has 9 infantry + General + 6 Cav (2 Cav Squadrons) + Artillery Division (3 Cannons and 1 Mortar, if it's a Gunpowder Stack) + maybe some special support units, then we can call it a Brigade. And I use 2 Cav Squadrons, because 1 obviously is not enough to cover both flanks.
sounds like a very expensive and not cost efficient stack. I rarely have more than 2-3 Samurai units in an army, the rest are light cavalry and Ashigaru.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 usually in TW I prefer quality over cost-effectiveness. Stacks have much less casualties. And Exp gains faster with less, but more powerful units.
If there is an Ashigaru Spear Wall, covered by 3 Katana, it sounds, like your Katana covers your Spear Wall from flanks. It's like playing Greek Culture factions in Rome and Rome II, when Cav and Swordsmen are covering the flanks of a phalanx. It's a great tactic. But I prefer a Roman-like style, when Swordsmen are covered against Cav by a few Spearmen, as a specialist anti-cav unit.
@@petrovepryk3786 its just very inefficient, though, Katana are a heavy hitter unit that are ideal for breaking flanks and causing chain routs, you very quickly have diminishing returns the more you add to an army.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I just don't wanna lose to a 10 Katana AI stack anymore.
When I have 6-7 Katana + 3 Yari Samurai Stack I just can manage my army just like I did in Rome and Rome II, while playing the Rome faction. The only exception is that my infantry can't throw Pilums. And I can take cities with ease. Ashigaru aren't that great in places where they can't throw a Yari Wall. While storming the city against the Garrison Katana Samurai, for example.
I still don't see why not use yari cav or naginata instead of the yari samurai
Yari Samurai don't need to be micro-managed as much and I would rather use them to hunt enemy cavalry instead of my own fragile Yari Cavalry, who are better off hitting infantry already pinned down by your men.
Yari Samurai are excellent units for on your flanks as they are fast enough to shore up gaps and form a defense defend against cavalry, and they can flank enemy ashigaru lines without having to fear cavalry support.
Naginata Samurai are not only worse against cavalry in a fight, but they are also far too slow to fill the roles that Yari Samurai fill; Naginata samurai are in the sad position of excelling at nothing on the battlefield; they are fine in campaign as a late-game alternative to Yari Ashigaru but in pvp they are generally a waste of money; their statline is that of a "versatie" unit but their slow movement speed makes them somewhat unsuited even in the generalist role; Yari Samurai are better generalist infantry as their speed makes them better suited to shoring up holes in your defense and exploiting them in the enemy; and while they don't beat yari ashigaru in yari wall from the front; they still crush them in any other scenario.
Not to say Naginata samurai don't have their uses; but they cannot hope to match Yari Samurai for their versatility in roles, anti-cavalry performance or flanking prowess.
@@captainnyet9855 Well I haven't unlocked either of the two in multiplayer so I can't say anything there. But in the campaign they really don't seem necessary given that the I.A. will glady charge your yariwall with their cav or engage their katana cav with your yari cav.
Im still dont know why the yari samurai dont have the yari wall
Im mean even if they dont have the wall
They should have At least the scuare
I love the campaign aspect of this game but absolutely hate playing battles, because the units are not balanced like in empire. All you have to build is yari ahshigara and yari bowmen, with a general.
Laughs in ikko ikki high morale ashigaru
Yari Samurais are not very good in single player... however, in multiplayer, they are more effective than Yari ashigaru in dealing cavlary and can survive longer in Melee fights. The thing about Yari ashigaru is that you have to micro them properly to be effective. In single player, that not a problem as you have a lot of time to micro your ashigaru units... But in Multiplayer, AShigaru units tend to rout too easily if flanked. Plus, the your opponent is not too dumb to charge blindlessly into yari wall. That is why having 1-2 Yari samurai in Multiplayer can be good.
Yeah, I think Yari Samurai would be used more if the AI weren't stupid enough to charge headfirst into yari walls and micromanaged better.
Haha. 450 hours of Shogun 2(probably closer to twice that amount since I used to have shitty internet and played it a lot offline) and it seems I've never actually used them quite right huh? :D But despite the hours in the game, I'm still not all that good(comparatively) from the simple fact that I still can't handle legendary difficulty xD
Marion Ferry
Ok maybe I'm stupid but I use them as suppor because are cheap, and can run without getting tired so they are great against bowmen and cavaliery. And of course as a support.
I completely end allot of campaigns with these "useless men" and only them
Fairly decent units that are overpriced for what they are also find a niche when you're in a scenario where you're expecting imminent battle and are only able to recruit a small number of forces prior to i.e. enemy are upon us in 2 turns... crank out as many Ashigaru as possible? May as well make it Samurai....
Yet I did a custom battle with 10 units of Yari Ashigaru in yari wall defending against 5 units of Yari Samurai and when they clashed the enemy ripped through my line like it was a sheet of paper. What the hell am I doing wrong?!
maybe if you had enough units concentrating at the same point it would cause a breakthrough in the line; after your center is broken other units will suffer morale penalties for being flanked resulting in a chain rout. Yari wall is great but they need to be properly guarded
Just install the yari samurai yari wall and you're done. Besides how can ashigaru have the discipline to form yari wall and samurai don't 💀.
Why can't Yari Samurai form a yari wall? What were the game developers thinking when they decided not to give them yari wall?
different unit with a different role
I modded them to have Yari Wall and guess what; I almost never use it because Yari Sams are generally wasted when kept in an immobile state.
Yari Samurai are good because of their mobility and strength vs cavalry; they can flank uncontested by any other unit type or quickly fill gaps in your defense but if you put them in Yari Wall they tend to just become less cost effective Yari Ashigaru.
Yari samurai should replace the katana or nodachi ones because that's what their job in the battlefield generally was. The sh2 implementation of them makes them niche and situational. They'd be good if that forced march thing made them able to catch up with cav and follow a charge (rome2 and attila style light shock or spear units following cav).
It would also add some much needed believability to the setting, nobody went to battle with just a sidearm (nodachi were basically out by the sengoku era) unless they were scouting or some shit. Hell, even light cavalry in this game has spears reee
You'd have to make a lot of changes to the building system, because a good Yari Samurai will make the spear line of buildings the go-to line in any campaign.
I look at vanilla only through the pvp lense to be frank, campaign just doesn't feel challenging after all these years
Thing is in MP Yari Samurai are actually more relevant than in campaign, their morale really comes in handy as Yari Ashigaru can get overwhelmed by flanking and rear charges, whereas Yari Samurai can sort of be left to do their thing and are a great cavalry deterrent on the flanks, in addition to supporting your own cavalry in a cavalry-vs-cavalry fight.
Volkman Street
Yari samurai should form Yari Wall.
I just did it cause it was historically accurate and I got dunked on a lot 😥
They're great for sniping generals... but light cav are better
Yari sam=speedy meh!
naginata=all rounder, bland but good
Bullet proof sam=naginata yari mix sam=speedy armoured fun time.
Got to love date
yarimazing=Oda's your favourite clan I assume;)
Yes they are
FACTS THOOO!!
Its almost as if using the best of both worlds can destroy any army
Yari Samurai are crap compared to Naginata for the same role, and Naginata are more arrow-proof. Yari samurai can still be useful, but I abandon them very quickly in the game.
That upkeep cost is brutal, if they had a lower upkeep like 100 theyd have a line filling roll.
Not even close. Naginata Samurai have the worst mobility in game right next to Bulletproofs, and they have lower charge and bonus vs cavalry. Compared to Yari Samurai they are objectively worse in that role.
They're also terrible at tanking arrows because fire arrows have an armor-piercing effect. Watch a Bow Ashigaru take out 20 or more of your precious Naginata with one of those volleys. The AI regularly recruits 6-7 Bow Samurai per stack, and their targeting script prioritizes Samurai units, so one unit of Naginata can be taking 3 or more fire arrow volleys at once. Bows and Yari Ashigaru are the only units that should ever be used as arrow-fodder.
It's a mediocre unit that defensively is outclassed by Yari Ashigaru, who have less armor but unlike Naginata they are indeed disposable. The "versatility" of Naginata Samurai is merely a crutch for newer players who don't want to micromanage the more specialist unit types. Everyone brings a unit of Yari Samurai or 2 in multiplayer; almost no one who is actually competitive will be bringing Naginata Samurai, and for good reason.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 No way. You don't use naginata for tanking, you ise them to eliminate enemy cavalry on the flanks and sometimes to kill bow units. Their armor helps a lot when flanking and approaching enemy archers. And they have better attacking stats than yari samurai.
@@order_truth_involvement6135 Their attack stats are still garbage for their price. Yari Samurai are the best unit for guarding flanks vs cavalry, there is no debate to be had there.
And again, mobility. Naginata Samurai have such terrible mobility they take an extra volley or 2, leaving them with barely any more men than a Yari Samurai by the time they close.
You don't bring Naginata's to deal with archers. You use cavalry, or Fire Rockets, or your own Bows to do that, and when available trees provide very good cover for all infantry.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 you're right, I do use cav more for that. But I think Naginata are not as bad as you think.
yari mazing
Yes but if u have to face fall of samurai armies yari samurai are perfect
Once again a noob mistake if you're goal is for a highspeed infantry get a katana cav ~,~ Katana cav main use is this and it will beat yari samurai and depending on terrain like bridge they can possibly destroy a whole army with no archers.
I guess the main issue with the yari samurai is that they requiere some level of micromanaging to use them properly.
Yari Ashigaru is VERY useful. But if get flanked, bye bye
Its the opposite.
Yari samurai thanks to their morale can be "left at it" when fighting cavalry
Isolated yari ashigaru are liable to routing
And if Yari Samurai are in a bad spot they can escape unscathed using rapid advance
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I think I meant that with my comment
I would say the opposite...
Yari Ashigaru need more micormanaging if you want them to be effective due to weak morale and Yari wall positioning
Yari Samurai needs less micro. Even when escaping using Rapid Advance, is still much easier to manage than Repositiniong your Yari wall with Ashigaru
Naginata Samurai seem like a good choice until even the most trash Katana Samurai (not even speaking of Nodachi) come along charge into your defensive line and with their superior charge bonus and melee attack disintegrate your Naginata Samurai in mere seconds without even needing archer support( I killed all their archers). Its just ridiculous. I dont even know anymore whats going in Legendary mode but best unit is the yari wall LUL. Forget everything else. Kappa
PS: I had to redo the battle and with avoiding the initial charge damage I managed barely to hold the line and my units were half strength. AI Katana had no buffs. My Naginata had superior melee and some units had superior armour. Trolol. Same goes for Light Cav who can somehow shred your General unit in melee.
Hall Paul Robinson Thomas Moore Karen
they useless if you have fewer units . in general tho if you arent oda then you should buy them ahaha xD
Only useless in campaign lol... well not really useless but not cost effective.
How you you know someone is a noob to competitive multiplayer Shogun 2? They make a video saying Yari Samurai are useless.
if you watched the video you would know that I am debunking this very claim...
lmao guess you couldn't spare the 3 minutes to watch
The wiggly knight equally empty because basketball parallely chop afore a youthful stopsign. swanky, blue-eyed judo
You sound Singaporean who went to a good school 😭