One disclaimer I forgot to add for transparency I am about $1100 into Grand Archive at this point. As both a competitive minded player, as well as of course content creator, the rest of my "buy in" would be about another $1000 at this point. While its cheaper than where FAB was one year into the game, it does make me worry about what future scaling looks like as Weebs of the Shore tries to expand in a global market. Link to the top 8 decks below: luxerasmap.com/tournaments/luxeras-map-mrc-open/
@@TachibanaTengoku I'm still trying to put together a larger list, but in general I would say if you just buy ONE competitive deck your buy in can be anywhere from $300-900 on current prices. I'm trying to get multiple staples across decks which is significantly increasing my buy in.
There are enough variants of the top lists that might be cheaper but i guess ring + gildas is already around 170 for ally decks, but there have been decent gildas-less lists for allies too with all the new options
@@godhenry007 so far just okay. As a veteran of “I’ve played too many damn TCGs” it doesn’t bring anything unique enough to the industry and feels shallow in its design that *could* be improved to make it feel a lot better in future sets. I do strongly believe if the devs lean in the game could be very fun and unique a year from now with a deeper card pool and expanding on key themes that make grand archive unique like balance/memory requirements for effects.
As an update since multiple people have made comments about my "max cost" for grand archive - turns out I wasn't actually that far off! Wind Umbra from Final Turn Gaming ALC regional is a **$869** deck. Working on a large data project that may or may not make it to youtube.
I just started showing interest in this game. I'm interested in building a fire tristan burn deck but its a bit out of my price range for a game I'm not 100% sold on since I haven't actually played yet. The game seems interesting overall. I have friends who play this casually so I could just borrow a deck to learn the game better.
For what it's worth on Acedemy Guide. 1. Not many decks actually use it. 2. In regards to an ALC reprint, there is speculation and word that the alter edition of ALC is set to come around September.
To me it feels a lot like Command and Conquer from Flesh and Blood even if its not a 1:1 in effect. Difficult to open card that its extremely powerful in certain strategies and fundamentally attacks a core rule of the game. If WotS wants to keep a healthy eye on the card I fully expect it to be included in a future supporter bundle. I also do mention in the video how AG isn't as widely used as the others in the list.
Speaking of Flesh and Blood, the Enigma deck that just won Battle Hardened cost $1,188. This game is nowhere near that, but they do need to take measures to prevent something like that happening as they grow.
I’m working on a pricing analysis project right now (shared a bit on Twitter) and have to say my imagine on the costs of decks is pretty spot on. As long as they don’t sharply increase due to new players entering the game (I think they will) the deck prices are in a pretty decent spot. Weebs of the Shore just has to find a way to keep them in this range
Competitive season about to kick off is something we can usually point to for TCG market watches, but I do very strongly believe the recent price hikes is due to an amazing production at worlds plus very shortly after launching a great product for new players to get into the game
oh for sure for sure, lots of new players coming in (i'm one of them too) and competitive season coming up doesn't help things too hahahaha. game is quite expensive for sure, but i think i rather have more expensive entry but the cards are more valuable in the long run than something like in SVE where after a booster set comes out u have to change atleast 60% of your deck hahahaha. (atleast thats what i feel playing dragon deck). but ideally i hope the cards can be cheaper, dungeon guide, gcr and gildas are reprinted now with DOA Alter. hopefully alchemical revolution is going to be reprinted too so academy guide is going to be lower price.
you lost me once you started talking about academy guide and gildas being barrier to entry. you can build ally decks without gildas, you can play level 3 strats without academy guide and be fine. dungeon guide and gcr are the only 2 cards that should ever be considered when asked what is a staple across the game. even further to prove a point, the very first rai list, you can trim that down cutting 10-15 dollar cards for cheaper alternatives and i assure you from a worlds competitor player POV that rai will play darn near the same way. looking at these lists and seeing "oh my god this card costs so much money" dont ask me why players foam at the mouth for things like academy guide which go in 1-2 decks and even those decks pilot fine enough without it. a perfect example of this is the first sylvie deck, bestial frenzy "$35?!?!?! how can i play this deck???" relax, it is a side board card and not critical what so ever to making the deck viable and top 8 placeable, these statements that "youre gonna need 3 of them" is disingenuous as all hell YOU DO NOT NEED THAT CARD TO WIN. this game if you play it enough, you will notice has a lot of expensive cards because people THINK they are very strong and buy them but you can very cheaply buy alternatives and do just as fine. bestial frenzy is a bad card, you do not need it. hell they even printed a cheap GCR in the form of backup charger. i think a lot of the perspectives in this video come from a very limited competitive mindset in GA and thought that every single card in the deck plays a major role. if you dont believe me, i implore you to ask the winner, Jesse or anyone on what they feel actually matters or if certain high dollar cards matter.
I appreciate the time to type up the comment, but you did entirely miss the point as I mentioned in the video. The barrier of entry is viewed as the "complete" package someone would be looking for if they wanted to get into the game as viewed from these lists. If even the deck is 0.5% less competitive without the card, it is still a lesser version of the deck. Your comment around Bestial Frenzy is exactly the opposite point for that matter as if you are expecting a heavy allies focused meta, you will in fact need that card to increase the % in your favor. You need to consider from the lens of the outside competitive player who is looking to get into GA who is going to want options for every deck. Not every FAB deck needed cards like Command and Conquer as just one of many examples, but it was still a major discussion point when someone was looking to get into the game from other TCGs.
@@KozmicPlays the 'complete' package and barrier to entry are two entirely different statements. A complete package also varies from player to player and event to event as i mentioned in the rai example, you can very easily build rai for half the cost of what you have listed and still be competitively fine. if you are going for the super duper top upper echelons of highest tier events then you in theory would already have invested into the game to acquire those cards hence this player not being "new". Bestial Frenzy is not required in an ally heavy meta. I have playtested with the card multiple times and it is not necessary but this is a card people will look at and think "oh my, ive gotta get my hands on that!" when in reality you don't have to it is just the option that that player chose for this given event, that card could've easily been resolute stand and the deck still would've top 8'd.
@@stevo7653 but the fact remains it had a non-zero impact which is the point above. The testing experience is going to be different for every person so while your conclusion was that it’s not a right call it might not be the same for everyone. You’re also making the comment on a “top 8 report” which would make the baseline assumption someone who is watching the video is wanting to get invested into the game at a more competitive level. Even beyond that I mentioned during the wind Tony segment that there are other ways to get into the game itself, but they would likely need to upgrade into the key pieces with GCR and DG. We have different viewpoints of competitive in this context and that’s fine as well. Caban had me on bestial frenzy so it’s going in my sideboard for now.
@@KozmicPlays at like 4:42 you go on about competitively getting into the game. as i have stated before, you can build a deck for around $50 and be competitively viable. you are nitpicking and straw manning the bestial frenzy about a 0.5%. full stop. you are not talking about the perfect of the perfect list. you are talking about BARRIER TO ENTRY. i cant stress this enough. you are staring at people who decided to put certain cards in their decks that you(the audience) as a new competitive player do not have to. you as a content creator are then blasting out to the ether that this game has costing issues, or showcasing the dollar to dollar card value of a deck implying you NEED these to top 8 when you do not have to. this is why i say this video is disingenuous and you are focusing too much on the individual costs of cards/decks when the only problem children are gcr/dungeon guide and not relaying to newer audiences to the game that YOU DO NOT NEED THESE CARDS TO WIN EVENTS AND BE COMPETITIVE. I reiterate, go talk to Mewkiss or any good sylvie player and ask them how critical is bestial frenzy, or talk to Jesse and ask how critical is gloamspire market. you will realize you can do just fine without certain cards which is the point. as an aside, most boxes have an msrp of around $100. are you going to tell me that as a TCG you expect to be able to get damn near every card for cheap? the game is driven by supply and demand, theres a reason why gcr is $50 from DOA but things like tome of sacred lightning are $1. you get a single ultra rare from a box. a box is approx. $100. why is it a problem that a UR is $50 when it is the most used material deck card. look at bedeviere's history, the card was worth $25 on release, then people realized the card/sylvie sucked so it tanked down to like $5, after a short while and sylvie became good now it spiked back up. similar with grail. grail was a $5 card from FTC which is now expensive because the demand for it is high. are the devs just supposed to mass run those cards so they arent as expensive? that would then crash the market for every other card.
One disclaimer I forgot to add for transparency I am about $1100 into Grand Archive at this point. As both a competitive minded player, as well as of course content creator, the rest of my "buy in" would be about another $1000 at this point. While its cheaper than where FAB was one year into the game, it does make me worry about what future scaling looks like as Weebs of the Shore tries to expand in a global market. Link to the top 8 decks below:
luxerasmap.com/tournaments/luxeras-map-mrc-open/
Wow is it really that expensive, or is it because you had to play catch up?
@@TachibanaTengoku I'm still trying to put together a larger list, but in general I would say if you just buy ONE competitive deck your buy in can be anywhere from $300-900 on current prices. I'm trying to get multiple staples across decks which is significantly increasing my buy in.
There are enough variants of the top lists that might be cheaper but i guess ring + gildas is already around 170 for ally decks, but there have been decent gildas-less lists for allies too with all the new options
How do you like this game compared to the other tcgs you've played?
@@godhenry007 so far just okay. As a veteran of “I’ve played too many damn TCGs” it doesn’t bring anything unique enough to the industry and feels shallow in its design that *could* be improved to make it feel a lot better in future sets. I do strongly believe if the devs lean in the game could be very fun and unique a year from now with a deeper card pool and expanding on key themes that make grand archive unique like balance/memory requirements for effects.
As an update since multiple people have made comments about my "max cost" for grand archive - turns out I wasn't actually that far off! Wind Umbra from Final Turn Gaming ALC regional is a **$869** deck. Working on a large data project that may or may not make it to youtube.
I play Flesh and Blood and this game. And I'd rather not think about how much money I have in cardboard. Lol. Nice video!
I just started showing interest in this game. I'm interested in building a fire tristan burn deck but its a bit out of my price range for a game I'm not 100% sold on since I haven't actually played yet. The game seems interesting overall. I have friends who play this casually so I could just borrow a deck to learn the game better.
For what it's worth on Acedemy Guide.
1. Not many decks actually use it.
2. In regards to an ALC reprint, there is speculation and word that the alter edition of ALC is set to come around September.
To me it feels a lot like Command and Conquer from Flesh and Blood even if its not a 1:1 in effect. Difficult to open card that its extremely powerful in certain strategies and fundamentally attacks a core rule of the game. If WotS wants to keep a healthy eye on the card I fully expect it to be included in a future supporter bundle. I also do mention in the video how AG isn't as widely used as the others in the list.
Speaking of Flesh and Blood, the Enigma deck that just won Battle Hardened cost $1,188. This game is nowhere near that, but they do need to take measures to prevent something like that happening as they grow.
I’m working on a pricing analysis project right now (shared a bit on Twitter) and have to say my imagine on the costs of decks is pretty spot on. As long as they don’t sharply increase due to new players entering the game (I think they will) the deck prices are in a pretty decent spot. Weebs of the Shore just has to find a way to keep them in this range
Another thing to consider why the proce might be a bit higher now is ascent coming soon?
Competitive season about to kick off is something we can usually point to for TCG market watches, but I do very strongly believe the recent price hikes is due to an amazing production at worlds plus very shortly after launching a great product for new players to get into the game
oh for sure for sure, lots of new players coming in (i'm one of them too) and competitive season coming up doesn't help things too hahahaha.
game is quite expensive for sure, but i think i rather have more expensive entry but the cards are more valuable in the long run than something like in SVE where after a booster set comes out u have to change atleast 60% of your deck hahahaha. (atleast thats what i feel playing dragon deck).
but ideally i hope the cards can be cheaper, dungeon guide, gcr and gildas are reprinted now with DOA Alter. hopefully alchemical revolution is going to be reprinted too so academy guide is going to be lower price.
Eyo
you lost me once you started talking about academy guide and gildas being barrier to entry. you can build ally decks without gildas, you can play level 3 strats without academy guide and be fine. dungeon guide and gcr are the only 2 cards that should ever be considered when asked what is a staple across the game. even further to prove a point, the very first rai list, you can trim that down cutting 10-15 dollar cards for cheaper alternatives and i assure you from a worlds competitor player POV that rai will play darn near the same way. looking at these lists and seeing "oh my god this card costs so much money" dont ask me why players foam at the mouth for things like academy guide which go in 1-2 decks and even those decks pilot fine enough without it.
a perfect example of this is the first sylvie deck, bestial frenzy "$35?!?!?! how can i play this deck???" relax, it is a side board card and not critical what so ever to making the deck viable and top 8 placeable, these statements that "youre gonna need 3 of them" is disingenuous as all hell YOU DO NOT NEED THAT CARD TO WIN. this game if you play it enough, you will notice has a lot of expensive cards because people THINK they are very strong and buy them but you can very cheaply buy alternatives and do just as fine. bestial frenzy is a bad card, you do not need it. hell they even printed a cheap GCR in the form of backup charger. i think a lot of the perspectives in this video come from a very limited competitive mindset in GA and thought that every single card in the deck plays a major role. if you dont believe me, i implore you to ask the winner, Jesse or anyone on what they feel actually matters or if certain high dollar cards matter.
I appreciate the time to type up the comment, but you did entirely miss the point as I mentioned in the video. The barrier of entry is viewed as the "complete" package someone would be looking for if they wanted to get into the game as viewed from these lists. If even the deck is 0.5% less competitive without the card, it is still a lesser version of the deck. Your comment around Bestial Frenzy is exactly the opposite point for that matter as if you are expecting a heavy allies focused meta, you will in fact need that card to increase the % in your favor. You need to consider from the lens of the outside competitive player who is looking to get into GA who is going to want options for every deck. Not every FAB deck needed cards like Command and Conquer as just one of many examples, but it was still a major discussion point when someone was looking to get into the game from other TCGs.
@@KozmicPlays the 'complete' package and barrier to entry are two entirely different statements. A complete package also varies from player to player and event to event as i mentioned in the rai example, you can very easily build rai for half the cost of what you have listed and still be competitively fine. if you are going for the super duper top upper echelons of highest tier events then you in theory would already have invested into the game to acquire those cards hence this player not being "new". Bestial Frenzy is not required in an ally heavy meta. I have playtested with the card multiple times and it is not necessary but this is a card people will look at and think "oh my, ive gotta get my hands on that!" when in reality you don't have to it is just the option that that player chose for this given event, that card could've easily been resolute stand and the deck still would've top 8'd.
Stevo knows what he’s talking about.
@@stevo7653 but the fact remains it had a non-zero impact which is the point above. The testing experience is going to be different for every person so while your conclusion was that it’s not a right call it might not be the same for everyone. You’re also making the comment on a “top 8 report” which would make the baseline assumption someone who is watching the video is wanting to get invested into the game at a more competitive level. Even beyond that I mentioned during the wind Tony segment that there are other ways to get into the game itself, but they would likely need to upgrade into the key pieces with GCR and DG. We have different viewpoints of competitive in this context and that’s fine as well. Caban had me on bestial frenzy so it’s going in my sideboard for now.
@@KozmicPlays at like 4:42 you go on about competitively getting into the game. as i have stated before, you can build a deck for around $50 and be competitively viable. you are nitpicking and straw manning the bestial frenzy about a 0.5%. full stop. you are not talking about the perfect of the perfect list. you are talking about BARRIER TO ENTRY. i cant stress this enough. you are staring at people who decided to put certain cards in their decks that you(the audience) as a new competitive player do not have to. you as a content creator are then blasting out to the ether that this game has costing issues, or showcasing the dollar to dollar card value of a deck implying you NEED these to top 8 when you do not have to. this is why i say this video is disingenuous and you are focusing too much on the individual costs of cards/decks when the only problem children are gcr/dungeon guide and not relaying to newer audiences to the game that YOU DO NOT NEED THESE CARDS TO WIN EVENTS AND BE COMPETITIVE. I reiterate, go talk to Mewkiss or any good sylvie player and ask them how critical is bestial frenzy, or talk to Jesse and ask how critical is gloamspire market. you will realize you can do just fine without certain cards which is the point.
as an aside, most boxes have an msrp of around $100. are you going to tell me that as a TCG you expect to be able to get damn near every card for cheap? the game is driven by supply and demand, theres a reason why gcr is $50 from DOA but things like tome of sacred lightning are $1. you get a single ultra rare from a box. a box is approx. $100. why is it a problem that a UR is $50 when it is the most used material deck card. look at bedeviere's history, the card was worth $25 on release, then people realized the card/sylvie sucked so it tanked down to like $5, after a short while and sylvie became good now it spiked back up. similar with grail. grail was a $5 card from FTC which is now expensive because the demand for it is high. are the devs just supposed to mass run those cards so they arent as expensive? that would then crash the market for every other card.