Great discussion. Beautiful presentation. And I 100% agree with your point on the North arrow. Only use it when necessary. I would also add that muted graticule lines are often a better choice than a North Arrow.
I always admire your commitment to both thinking critically of what to include (or not) in your maps, and your constant work to improve. Both from the maps themselves, but also in your end-of-video clips and transitions. It both works well and is in keeping with my perceived message of the channel. Keep up the great work!
Brilliant. Year 9 geogrpaphy drummed into me BOLTS for a map (Border, Orientation, Legend, Title, Scale) which got amended at university to include a second S (for Source). But what I had pointed out to me later was that putting the word Legend (L) in a box over-explained things. If a map reader needed a Legend explicitly described and couldn’t infer it themself, then there was no way in hell they could correctly infer anything from the actual map data.
Great video, John. The only thing that popped into my mind is that I think we can sometimes take map/geographic literacy for granted; depending on the audience, a north arrow on a cylindrical projection could still be necessary... some people may have never learned the seemingly intrinsic idea of "North is up". I think an overarching idea to take into consideration for many of your points would be: Know Your Audience!
I was also going to say that audience should be another criteria. Yes, that large-scale map of a neighborhood in Michigan should probably have a north arrow, but what if your audience is, say, the town council? You could probably assume your audience knows which way is north.
Not all maps need a north arrow and I have died on that cross many times. So many GIS professionals think it's a mandatory element. Also, this would make an EXCELLENT interview question.
thanks Bob! i was pretty happy with how that worked out too. i used it elsewhere earlier in the edit, then realized it would fit perfectly over that conical map.
Мне нравится делать карты континентов с добавлением градусной сетки с подписями в азимутальных проекциях, где в центре располагается регион интереса. В советской картографии особое внимание уделяли зарамочному оформлению карт в частности для отдельного масштаба имеется своя линейка. Ваш ролик это базовые знания картографии. Благодарю за ролик!👍
Amazing video; going to send it to people at work. I may or may not get people unnecessarily worked up. Please say that there are plans for a scale text/bar video!
I think this debate comes down largely to the difference between "cartography" and "map-making". I define "cartography" as making a map for art, public consumption or business purposes. There is a heavy emphasis on graphic design and accuracy is less important. I see "map-making" as making a map for scientific, engineering or navigation for a specialized audience. Accuracy is king and design is less important. If you are doing cartography, you usually don't need a north arrow. If you are doing map-making, a north indicator, not necessarily a north arrow, is required.
and sometimes a graticule is enough of a north indicator. there's also a dimension of what you'd call map making that has to be done at small scales, like continental or global. in that case i'd argue north indication isn't necessary.
In Japan streets, subways etc... maps are orientated along the main street direction. This makes it quite hard to read for me, as it requires some preliminary reading to understand.
yeah the familiarity and audience expectation is huge. i didn't know this about Japanese maps, this is interesting. i have also heard that geocoding is a challenge in Japan because many municipalities would number the houses on a street chronologically, rather than in spatial sequence. which makes sense, unless you are a geocoding algorithm.
As someone who's currently reading _How to Lie with Maps_, your point about "only a little white lie" made me chuckle. ALL maps are lies. You can either lie accidentally or you can lie with intent (and hopefully good faith).
Muy interesante John! Coincido contigo en que depende de cada caso, yo hacía esto en forma intuitiva. Agrego que me molesta mucho cuando ponen unos Nortes gigantes en el mapa jajaja. Saludos desde Argentina!
Dear John, in European culture East, during middle ages, east was up in maps, where north is now, because Gerusalem, the center of Christian world in that times, was at east. Thanks for your videos, I follow you with enthusiastic curiosity
Good sober take on the subject. I'd separate out another abstract reason to add north. Purpose. If the user of your map will measure angles from north, as for navigation or surveying, you should provide appropriate tools. The idea of labeling north as a hard and fast requirement is basically the same phenomenon as grammar nazism. We're educated in a particular way in basic education about maps, which creates a sense of immutability, like cartography is a dead language. It is very much alive and as you note, ideas of orientation vary across space and time. In the end, insisting on a north arrow in all situations in an argument is more a sign of elitism than of intelligence- just as with linguistic grammar.
I thought the "east up" came from the idea of orienting towards Jerusalem (from the perspective of Christian Europe), for the same reason that most (all?) medieval churches are oriented east. Churches today even if they aren't oriented east, have a concept of "liturgical east", that is, the direction facing the altar.
@@JohnNelsonMaps you definitely should. I’m not even sure they added new North Arrows at ArcMap 8 but they haven’t added any since. I’ve been using GIS since ArcView 3.2 in 2002 and there haven’t been any updated North Arrows since maybe 8 but certainly not since; not even in Pro
Great discussion. Beautiful presentation. And I 100% agree with your point on the North arrow. Only use it when necessary.
I would also add that muted graticule lines are often a better choice than a North Arrow.
thanks Jamison! yes, 100% agree.
I always admire your commitment to both thinking critically of what to include (or not) in your maps, and your constant work to improve. Both from the maps themselves, but also in your end-of-video clips and transitions. It both works well and is in keeping with my perceived message of the channel. Keep up the great work!
Wow, thank you Ethen!
Brilliant. Year 9 geogrpaphy drummed into me BOLTS for a map (Border, Orientation, Legend, Title, Scale) which got amended at university to include a second S (for Source). But what I had pointed out to me later was that putting the word Legend (L) in a box over-explained things. If a map reader needed a Legend explicitly described and couldn’t infer it themself, then there was no way in hell they could correctly infer anything from the actual map data.
yeah, rubrics like that can often miss the point. but they are easy to grade against!
Great video, John. The only thing that popped into my mind is that I think we can sometimes take map/geographic literacy for granted; depending on the audience, a north arrow on a cylindrical projection could still be necessary... some people may have never learned the seemingly intrinsic idea of "North is up". I think an overarching idea to take into consideration for many of your points would be: Know Your Audience!
yes, agree! thanks Tyler!
I was also going to say that audience should be another criteria. Yes, that large-scale map of a neighborhood in Michigan should probably have a north arrow, but what if your audience is, say, the town council? You could probably assume your audience knows which way is north.
Not all maps need a north arrow and I have died on that cross many times. So many GIS professionals think it's a mandatory element. Also, this would make an EXCELLENT interview question.
Totally agree with you
Pretty trick with the North Arrow animation across the bottom @3:50.
thanks Bob! i was pretty happy with how that worked out too. i used it elsewhere earlier in the edit, then realized it would fit perfectly over that conical map.
Мне нравится делать карты континентов с добавлением градусной сетки с подписями в азимутальных проекциях, где в центре располагается регион интереса. В советской картографии особое внимание уделяли зарамочному оформлению карт в частности для отдельного масштаба имеется своя линейка. Ваш ролик это базовые знания картографии. Благодарю за ролик!👍
thanks!
Amazing video; going to send it to people at work. I may or may not get people unnecessarily worked up.
Please say that there are plans for a scale text/bar video!
Always love how you ends your videos with showing your barn and chickens. 😀
thanks!
I think this debate comes down largely to the difference between "cartography" and "map-making". I define "cartography" as making a map for art, public consumption or business purposes. There is a heavy emphasis on graphic design and accuracy is less important. I see "map-making" as making a map for scientific, engineering or navigation for a specialized audience. Accuracy is king and design is less important. If you are doing cartography, you usually don't need a north arrow. If you are doing map-making, a north indicator, not necessarily a north arrow, is required.
and sometimes a graticule is enough of a north indicator. there's also a dimension of what you'd call map making that has to be done at small scales, like continental or global. in that case i'd argue north indication isn't necessary.
Excellent video, at some point could you explain more about the different elements that a map should have?
@@arielaizprua4602 might make a good series
In Japan streets, subways etc... maps are orientated along the main street direction.
This makes it quite hard to read for me, as it requires some preliminary reading to understand.
yeah the familiarity and audience expectation is huge. i didn't know this about Japanese maps, this is interesting. i have also heard that geocoding is a challenge in Japan because many municipalities would number the houses on a street chronologically, rather than in spatial sequence. which makes sense, unless you are a geocoding algorithm.
As someone who's currently reading _How to Lie with Maps_, your point about "only a little white lie" made me chuckle.
ALL maps are lies. You can either lie accidentally or you can lie with intent (and hopefully good faith).
@@altasilvapuer what a great book!
Muy interesante John! Coincido contigo en que depende de cada caso, yo hacía esto en forma intuitiva. Agrego que me molesta mucho cuando ponen unos Nortes gigantes en el mapa jajaja. Saludos desde Argentina!
thanks! yes, me too!
Love it! ❤ put it on if your reader may feel lost 😊
yes!
Dear John, in European culture East, during middle ages, east was up in maps, where north is now, because Gerusalem, the center of Christian world in that times, was at east. Thanks for your videos, I follow you with enthusiastic curiosity
@@lorenzofusco9984 thank you!
Good sober take on the subject. I'd separate out another abstract reason to add north. Purpose. If the user of your map will measure angles from north, as for navigation or surveying, you should provide appropriate tools.
The idea of labeling north as a hard and fast requirement is basically the same phenomenon as grammar nazism. We're educated in a particular way in basic education about maps, which creates a sense of immutability, like cartography is a dead language. It is very much alive and as you note, ideas of orientation vary across space and time. In the end, insisting on a north arrow in all situations in an argument is more a sign of elitism than of intelligence- just as with linguistic grammar.
great points, Maxwell. yes, the purpose of a map is the key driver of its contents. something on only glossed over but a giant consideration.
The Edward Tufte of maps
@@reginaldphillips7615 too kind!
Scalebar necessity is determined by the ability of the audience...but maybe that is a topic for another time.
yes, lots to consider for scalebars, too!
Looking forward to the scalebar sequel! ⚖📊
Love it!!!!
thanks!
I love your work, thank you! ❤️ 🌏 🛰️ 🗺️
thanks!
I generally just use a north arrow to fill up my title block. Does it add importance? Yes it does.
🤣
How many north arrows do we need on a polar sterographic map?
@@Mal501 all of them!
Good topical.
Thanks!
I thought the "east up" came from the idea of orienting towards Jerusalem (from the perspective of Christian Europe), for the same reason that most (all?) medieval churches are oriented east. Churches today even if they aren't oriented east, have a concept of "liturgical east", that is, the direction facing the altar.
@@RichardLawNZ that may be it, I’ve heard that as well
Any reason why ESRI hasn’t updated the North Arrow gallery since ArcMap 8?
@@meghanmcgaffin3278 they haven’t? I don’t know. But I have a collection of them that I was going to release then forgot to. I should!
@@JohnNelsonMaps you definitely should. I’m not even sure they added new North Arrows at ArcMap 8 but they haven’t added any since. I’ve been using GIS since ArcView 3.2 in 2002 and there haven’t been any updated North Arrows since maybe 8 but certainly not since; not even in Pro
@@meghanmcgaffin3278 WOW!
Well, I'll be damned.
:0
Hahah I love the fact you covered this. But you definitely don't. Maps are ideally north oriented
thanks! or non-north oriented, as long as you give it a north arrow