The Royal Navy official history shows considerable respect for the Italian Navy. The Italians in East Africa were the best of the Italian Army. If the Gurkhas said an enemy was brave that’s the end of the argument.
The British gave the defeated Italians the honors of wars on at least 5 occasions: at Giarabub, at Amba Alagi, at Gondar, at El Alamein, at Cualquabier. Italians also defeated the British in multiple occasions: at Bi El Gobi, at Kassala, at the conquest of Somaliland, during the advance from Tobruk to Marsa Matruth in 1942. Italians were able to slow the Allied advance in Tunisia (in 1942, Germans get the credit but the commander of Axis forces there and last to surrender was Messe) and in East Africa (Cheren battle) for months and months. But ignorants don't know this. Italians fought WW2 with a WW1 army (with som exceptions) but they fought well. Also, their special forces (X MaS, Guastatori, Alpini sciatori, Arditi, Adra etc) were among the best.
When people think that the Italians was cowards they should go to read the histoties of Teseo Tesei or Rosario Randazzo above all, then the Folgore and Ariete tank division at El Alamein, or what only 200 Italians did at Izbushenski vs 2500 Russian, or what the Trento or Sabratha rgt. did at Tel el Eisa. Just citing the first two stories: The first one, Teseo Tesei was a Frogman that, due a malfunction of his SLC torpedo, decided to activate it manually letting himself and his fellow Frogman colleague blowing up with the bomb, only to sink a ship. The second one, Rosario Randazzo, was a gunner firing with a machinegun, it was hit by a shrapnel that fully amputate his right arm, he continued to fire the machinegun using his theets until he died.
@@zenster1097 Sadly today childs and trolls do a meshup of all propagandized stereotypes, so the "french was cowards in WWII" propagandized stereotype merged with the Italians and vice versa.
@@billballbuster7186 Italians was persecuted and executed also under Mussolini only to not having the fascist party membership. Italians was everything but surely not cowards.
@@solinvictus1234 During Operation Compass 1940-41 it was officially recorded that British troops would open fire on an Italian position. The Italians would fire a shot or two in return, then raise a white and surrender. Why do this when the Italians were far superior in artillery and aircraft??? They certainly did not want to fight, so what would you call it?
Italian here, there is an elephant in the room that gets never mentioned. Steel. Italy didn't have access to cheap coal. making steel for weaponry was significantly more expensive and hard to acquire in general.
And Oil. Germany basically used 90% of oil produced in Romania (which was the only source available to the axis, thanks to the formidable Royal Navy blocking all seas, and the other oil fields being in Russia). So they could not use airplane or ships as much as they wanted since they have to ratio every single gallon available
Steel in chemistry it's just 98% Fe and 1.5% C, as far I understand we are considering access to coal important as source for the 1.5% of carbon, but with good logistics (so with good leadership) wood or biomasses could be good replacement for the carbon requirements
e naturalmente la corruzione imperante, vedi ad es. i test truccati dell'Ansaldo (corazze par navi), o le mazzette date ai funzionari governativi incaricati di controllare la qualità dell'equipaggiamento prodotto, ecc.
I'm 67, born of WW2 , much studied. Italian Artillery, brilliant, Airforce, great Pilots under equipped except for the Triple Engined Torpedo bombers Brilliant very brave men. Once in Australia I crossed a book in a shop about an Italien Cavalry leader in Ethiopia, I should have bought it. Italian Human torpedoes in Alexandria and Gibraltar absolutely brilliant. I am a top level scuba diver. Those men were very skilled and VERY Brave.
@@nni9310 Sì, l'ho letto anch'io: molto interessante. Ne scrive anche Indro Montanelli in un suo volume che parla di personaggi che ha conosciuto. So che la RAI voleva fare uno sceneggiato sulle imprese di Amedeo Guillet, ma poi non ha proseguito nell'intento.
Thank you. The saddest part is that, with WWII becoming a political issue, in the ‘60 and ‘70 many Italian scholars were just too eager to reinforce those myths.
Italy shoot down more than 2000 airplanes ,sank more than 200 ships (merchant and military ) and won more than 10 battles. Respect and thanks to this video and objectivity
People forget that a LOT of the early surrenders by Italians was of troops in the desert with no water supplies because the British had blown the water tankers up as a priority target. Dying from thirst or surrendering… sounds kinda more sensible suddenly.
@@pgf289 if your enemy have more aircrafts , more artillery and more troops , it's not incompetence . UK spent 50% of his GDP on the army during ww2 , causing famine in regions like India and Pakistan . Mussolini simply asked Italy more than what Italy had.
Ma per caso intendi quella contro i russi sul fronte orientale? Non mi sembra sia stata un successo...morirono tutti e soltanto un cavallo sopravvisse...
Germany they even think to use G.55 (and 56 too) insteand BF and FW, but they change idea when they ear need x3 time to make one G.55 instead a BF or FW
They had it in high regard but they found it inferior to their planes by default because it was poorly suited as a fighter bomber Objectively speaking, it was more or less on the same tier of the latest versions of the Spitfire and the Messerschmit of the time but it was poorly suited for mass production
The problem is that in Italy we have this lovely habit to be the first ones that love to destroy anything an Italian does, specially if starts to do it good and start to get international recognition. If we want to know why the Italian army always had the bad reputation that we all know lets see what the chief in command General Cadorna had to say about his soldiers to cover his and almost all of his officials mistakes in Caporetto battle. Some Italians are so proud that prefer to spread bad news about us before the victorious enemy do it.
La causa risale al tempo del risorgimento, voluto dall' Inghilterra non dal popolo italiano. La nazione italiana non è mai esistita se non con l'oppressione dei Savoia sullo stato della Chiesa e delle due Sicilie. D'altronde anche a casa loro gli inglesi hanno lo stesso problema con scozia e Irlanda..
@@vrcfncpdci l'Italia non è mai stata una nazione perché l'idea di nazione non è mai esistita fino all'800. Ciò detto paragonare il Vaticano o le due Sicilie a Irlanda o Scozia vuole dire non avere un'idea della storia.
falso gli Italiani erano governati da stranieri che con la forza li tenevano divisi e isolati aumentando così le differenze culturali di linguaggio e culturali...è poi l'italiano è troppo intelligente per amare le guerre piuttosto usa la sua testa per cose più importanti che la distruziione ...pensa che anche il tuo smartphine puo funzionare per merito di un Italiano l'Ing. Cecchin che ha fatto il primo processore che sviluppato ha permesso tutto questo. Cordialmente @@vrcfncpdci
l'Italia, a differenza di quello che dicono sopra di me, è sempre stata una nazione, ma non uno stato unito, c'è differenza tra stato e nazione, difatti nell'ottocento si parla di stati-nazione per un motivo
It’s always about leadership, training, and lastly, equipment. No one 2000 years ago made fun of the Italians. Their armies had all 3. You may have heard of them.
@@eddiecalderone Up to the I century after Christ, almost all officers in the Ancient Roman Army came from the Italian peninsula. The Romans did not feel like putting people from other parts of the empire in strategic positions. Soldiers could come from non-Italian parts of the empire, but officers did not. By the same token, in colonial India Indian units were commanded by British officers, and that's the same story for every empire.
@uffa00001, where did you read it stopped in the 1st century? Up to the third actually. In the 1st century most soldiers, not just officers, were Italians.
Nothing has changed, leadership, training and good equipment -all three of them-are necessary to win. I served 20 yrs in the military, in tip of the spear roles, and I have lived what I’m talking about.
After the battle of El Alamein, Sir Winston Churchill said: "…we must bow in front of the remains of the Folgore lions" because the Division had resisted against an attack by two armoured divisions and four infantry divisions.
I don't know how much truth there is in that but I know Churchill and others did have many good things to say about the performance of the Folgore airborne division at Alamein. I understand the Pavia infantry and Ariete armoured division were also acknowledged as being effective and competent, the San Marco Marines also. Their torpedo boats were lethality effective against the Pedestal Malta convoy. I gather all the US PT boats at Letter Gulf all missed. .
@@dywirnach783 I agree, as I said in my comment above the Italian top brass likes a lot of posturing, this statement was even aided by the Italian press up to today. But personally I don't think Churchill ever said something like that.
Also they did not only resist the German occupation, since Italy split in half, some stayed loyal to the Axis (RSI and ANR). The ANR pilots fought in battles where they were always outnumbered… and they kept defending Italy from the Allied bombing.
Peoples listen to US veterans speeches, but nobody has ever listened to Italians veterans speeches, Italians were tough, extremely tough to fight, especially when they had to defend, they were lions, with no supply, nothing to eat, nothing to drink, low ammo, low artillery, in Africa they has not really been defeated by Anglo-American troops, they just retired following order from the “great” wolf of the desert ( which made the axe lose ) Suggest to see: Battle of Bir El Gobi Battle of El Alamein
The mith of italian soldier's cowardice has been started by General Cadorna after the defeat of Caporetto in 1917 in order to avoid to face his responsibility. After WWI the Army has been systematically demolished: -Arditi units were disbanded -front line officers were discharged while rear echelon ones were promoted -binary division system enacted in order to provide more positions for generals -never solved clashes between armed forces -clashed between the general factions loyal to the king and the fascist regime
@@calogerohuygens4430 that's the official reason. The unofficial one is to create more positions for generals. Similarly, in the modern Italian Army, the regiments are battalions with the hq company attached and they are led by a full colonel. In the American one the analogue formation is called battalion and it's led by a lieutenant colonel.
@@roccosfondo8748that’s not correct , the new rules were set to show off, basically it creates on paper an increase of troops for sure used as political gain or other reason you can look on the details between the messages that Mussolini sent to ciano and his military advisor …
@@dywirnach783 the reality was a bit more complex. Usually generals and admirals persuaded Mussolini of a thing then he rebranded it as a his personal decision. One more example: admiral Cavagnari held a conference to demonstrate that the Navy needs no carriers then Mussolini come out with the "Italy is a big carrier" statement.
Nazario sauro sneaking up to sink the Santo Stefano. In Trieste harbour the big Austrian battleship Fully pretected yet he did' it With the human torpido called MAS Meaning. Moment audere simperit in latin
Long live the Alpini, 🫡 from the Romanian Mountain Riflemen, who did just about the same thing in WW2! You should do an similar episode about the Romanian Army.
Other then El Alamein.. you don't mentioned , the maritime demolition-sabotages operations in the Alexanderia port (which was as the time one of the more fortified port of the allies ) took out by the operator of X°mas whit their SLC(the famous manned torpedo also called PIGS) .. Specially the operation G A 6/E A 3 which was later on considered one of the first ,if not the first real marines/frogman's underwater raids of the history... Not only but most WWII historians see the X°MAS frogmans/raiders alongside TESO TESEI (founder of the X°) pioneers of military and non immersions techniques.... the heritage of those man's literally riding torpedoes , carry whit them a knife,some nades and a bunch of demoliton chargers whit none or minimum air supply formed and shaped the modern Marine s special forces .
In WWII the hearts of the Italian people were not as dedicated to fighting the Americans as the Germans. Many Italians had relatives on both sides. Another factor overlooked is the Italians essentially switching sides gave an appearance of weakness.
well, I'm not an expert but there's one element also to be considered: italy became a national state just in 1861, then a national army had to be built... Before that there were many smaller kingdoms. Imagine that when in the army, people used to speak different dialects, and cultures, coming from natural and cultural environments that were very different, if you know geography and history of italy. in their national army, a soldier could easily say "I have never seen so many foreigners all together"
folgore didn't lost a position in the last moments of the africa campaign, they leaved by tattical retreat when ordered, allied managed to gain one post but soon after folgore got it back, sometimes fighting almost with bare hands.
Commander J.V. Borghese of the tenth light flotilla, Italian navy; "Black prince of Rome", was a outstanding 👌 legendary, talented, and courageous leader.
They were very brave, however they didn’t have enough artillery, air cover or armor as well as logistics. Ultimately they were hung out to dry by the panzer corps. They surrendered bec they were brave, not stupid.
It seems we had also problems with the navy ammo built with tolerances not strict enough and that made Italian navy gun to be less precise than required, especially when your opponent has radar on his ships.
To note that in the El Alamein battle retreat, ordered by Rommel, 4 divisions were ordered to protect the retreat, 3 italian (Littorio, Trieste and Ariete) and 1 german (15 panzer). Than add that many italian infantry troops were not motorized divisions, so had no trucks for a faster retreat as have done the german units. Same scenario in Russia, italian troops ordered to protect german troops retreat. Even worse in URSS campaign italian officers were very often not informed by german officers of the front situation and plans. As in Africa italian troop were let behind to fight to protect german troop retreat.
@@dywirnach783 it is false. But the rommel diary are not . R spoke extremeley well about italian in his diary and it could not be different as his army was mostly Italian .
at the end of african campaign in Tunisia, the allies were held off by the italians for so long that they thought they were being commanded by Rommel, instead it was Messe who was commanding the axis troops and made the allies think Rommel was still in africa
I had been under the impression the Italian troops proper were fine, it was the unmotivated colonial troops pressed into service which led the Italian military down, along with the insufficient weaponry. Italians had a solid fighter plane, excellent Navy for the time but no fuel.
Some colonial troops yes, mostly in Libya since it always was a "problem colony" (by that I mean that people were rightfully mad about foreign domination) Eritrean and Somali troops in East Africa fought like lions. Most of the Italian Army in East Africa was native colonial troops commanded by Italians. Amedeo Guillet, leader of the Gruppo Bande Amhara, claimed "whatever we will ever do for Eritrea will never make up for what Eritrea has done for us"
@@Deridusthat’s completely false , the Italian navy models were lighter and faster of the British but also that means smaller protection and guns … Also add that many ammunition for the guns tend to fail , the Italian army stayed most of the time hidden in the ports too scared to seriously fight head on with the British alone … Also the Italian fighter was decent but never serialized and too low on numbers .. The only successful fights head on the German aircraft always supported the Italians
@vandelberger It’s untrue , in North Africa the Italian army was under equipped , graziani during the first offensive sent an army bigger than 100th men’s against the British … In the desert mobility is the key to win the conflict and Italian didn’t have the equipment to fight properly the enemy they were sitting ducks waiting for the British to cut through the army like butter
And Rommel Must know it. He fought the Italians in the Isonzo Battles - where he earned his Pour Le Merite and he let them succesfully through Most of the north african campaign. He used them as aggressively as the german Tank Divisions
Also, the fortune of Rommel in WWII was made by Italians. The Italian secret service was capable to infiltrate the US embassy in Rome, retrievint unnoticed the allies codex, passing it to Rommel, then retrieving back in the US Embassy also unnoticed. Lather in the North African campaign, when Rommel was anticipatinf any allies tactics, the British started to thinking that the axis had his hands on the allies codex, so they changed it and Rommel started to lose.
Few people know - that Rommel abandoned his Italian allies in North Africa. He stripped the Italians of almost every tank, truck & artillery piece for his own army's use. He later arranged for the evacuation of just his own Afrika corp soldiers. He simply dumped them.
I don't think Walter would disagree that there are cases where the winners are not the exclusive writers of history. Specifically, the Germans did a lot of the writing out of WWII. In part this was for practical reasons. On official grounds they were a source of lessons learned vs. the Soviets. On purely historical grounds the Soviets weren't very forthcoming (and what was available was so politically motivated as to greatly reduce its value). A significant number of the German writers took advantage of this opportunity, writing for which they were openly paid by the Allies at times, to tweak the history to their liking. Well, the Italians are easy fall guys in those circumstances. It is notable that the local POW cemetery consists of a a dozen or so Germans grouped together. The sole Italian is off in his own little corner. Best available resources say he died after a prolonged illness and had demanded that not be buried with the Germans. Interesting.
While I was in the US Navy, I was stationed in Italy in the early 1980s and I got to know quite a few older Italians who told me stories about their military service umber Mussolini. They were all very interesting.
The problem of fascist Italy is that Mussolini, like all dictators, surrounded himself in command roles with those he trusted and not the best. At all levels, especially military. Suffice it to say that the forces were not coordinated by a single central command precisely so as not to take away the "Glory" from this or that general.
And let me say he surrounded himself with “yes men” that did nothing but making things worse getting along with the worst stuff imaginable Mussolini did
More than three hundred thousand Italian soldiers were killed in combat during WW2. Were they all cowards? I don't think so; had they been cowards, they would have returned home safe and sound.
An army badly equipped and badly managed, sent against superpowers... I am terrifically honoured of my ancestors courage to even think to go in battle! Just one name for you all to study: Italo Balbo.
None of these comments mentions just how many soldiers volunteered to fight side by side with US troops after September 1943, pushing Germans out of the country and taking down the very brothers who instead had decided to stay loyal to Mussolini. Indeed "mancò la Fortuna, non il Valore"
What about the hundreds of thousands who served in the armed forces of RSI despite was already lost? The troops of the cobelligerant army were little thing compared to them
The Italian 10th Light Flotilla (La Decima Flottiglia MAS) which included the despatch sloop Diana, two large motor torpedo-boats 451 and 452, two midget submarines, a midget submarine carrier, a flotilla leader and nine e-boats under the overall command of Capitano di Fregata Vittorio Moccagatta attacked the Malta Grand Harbour on July 26, 1941. However, the attack was unsuccessful and only managed to destroy part of the breakwater at the entrance to the harbour, one has to admire the execution and planning of the attack which was only repulsed by sheer luck and a series of unlucky mishaps on the Italian side.
People tend to forget that the reason why there was a conflict in north africa, and why Rommel went there and formed the Africa Korps is beacause Italy had colonies there. The conflict was between Italy and Britain and the Germans came later to help their allies. There would have been no conflict in north Africa if not for that reason.
The Axis Army in North Africa was 2/3 Italians even after Germans arrived. All the praise Rommel gets is actually Italy's merit, meanwhile Rommel in fact made strategic blunders and is overrated.
I'm Italian and my grandfather fought with brave and honor and courage in East Africa, his brother in low in Russia and another uncle in north Africa. So said that, the sentence you posted is simply not true, despite it can be read almost everywhere :-)
@@gtangari I've always been sceptical about the quote - I doubt Stalin's Soviet Union would praise any enemy, unless it was meant to embarrass the Germans.
Rommel also said: the German soldier stupified the world, but the Bersaglieri stupified the German soldier. He was referring to the battle of El Alamein...
I learnt a great deal here. Furthermore even the German performance in WW2 is becoming victim of the misrepresentation as described here. Namely that much of their equipment was interior to the Allies and the gact that they eventually lost proves thay weren't as good. People seem to conflate the fact that they were fighting of an eveil ideology with beiing geneally not as good. Or perhaps it's simply an unwillingness to admit Allied inferiority in at least some key areas.
I used to believe this as well. Part of it was the images of an entire Italian army surrendering to one British soldier. This was after Cunningham's offensive that routed the Italians. Among other problems was having 6 models of machine guns and nine different rifles... none of which used the same ammunition. (a friend of mine read this from designer's notes for a board game about North Africa, so make of it what you will.)
Actually the Armed Forces leadership was not selected on the basis of political affinity to fascism, but on seniority (which wasn't as well a good selection criterion)
My cousin is a italo-american that served as Marine, my father was a Alpino, and my cousin always said that the Alpini is the only italian corps that actually scares him. O7 thank's for the kind word to my father's brother in arms corp.
The problem with the Italian forces in WW2 is that they were relatively poorly trained and very poorly equipped. Their worst failing however, was leadership, which was dreadful in most cases. When incorporated into Rommel’s forces they performed very well.
The current best italian researcher about this argument is Alberto Alpozzi. I invite the Italian compatriots, and foreign friends, to look at his works.
The (very) large numbers of Italian prisoners taken may have had something to do with it. So may have the British advance under O'Conner and their failure to take Tobruk.
At minute 9.19 you state that the Germans had this idea that the NCO weren't able to do anything by themselves? I'd presume there was an error and you were referring to the japanese since you were speaking about them, and the concept of "Auftragstaktik" the germanas adheared to since the times of Prusdia states exactly the oppsite, that NCO's etc. should have the ability and possibilty to decide for themselves during the heat of the combat and seize opportunities as those present themself?
It's not true that the Italians were cowards but what actually is true that their machine guns all sounded like "boobedi-bahbedi-boobedi-bahbedi" when firing.
the fact remains, the italian ground forces, overall, performed poorly wherever they were engaged. not because their troops were "cowardly", but for lots of other reasons.
20th century Italian army was much like the 19th century British Amy. Officers bought their commission. Wealthy chaps who liked the uniform and sword bought in. Arguably not the greatest way to pick your Officer corp.
Not true - the Italian officers never bought their commissions. Their appointments were decided on the basis of loyalty to Mussolini and who they knew in the system. Frankly - that made it worse - since the legitimately bright and clever ones officers in their ranks - were overlooked for promotion.
The Royal Navy official history shows considerable respect for the Italian Navy. The Italians in East Africa were the best of the Italian Army. If the Gurkhas said an enemy was brave that’s the end of the argument.
The British gave the defeated Italians the honors of wars on at least 5 occasions: at Giarabub, at Amba Alagi, at Gondar, at El Alamein, at Cualquabier. Italians also defeated the British in multiple occasions: at Bi El Gobi, at Kassala, at the conquest of Somaliland, during the advance from Tobruk to Marsa Matruth in 1942. Italians were able to slow the Allied advance in Tunisia (in 1942, Germans get the credit but the commander of Axis forces there and last to surrender was Messe) and in East Africa (Cheren battle) for months and months. But ignorants don't know this. Italians fought WW2 with a WW1 army (with som exceptions) but they fought well. Also, their special forces (X MaS, Guastatori, Alpini sciatori, Arditi, Adra etc) were among the best.
Yes
Couse the navy was 90% Croatian ;)
@cro4sule what are you talking about, which Croatian?
@@ulpiotraiano3374 only 1
Drop the slivovitz bottle...
When people think that the Italians was cowards they should go to read the histoties of Teseo Tesei or Rosario Randazzo above all, then the Folgore and Ariete tank division at El Alamein, or what only 200 Italians did at Izbushenski vs 2500 Russian, or what the Trento or Sabratha rgt. did at Tel el Eisa.
Just citing the first two stories:
The first one, Teseo Tesei was a Frogman that, due a malfunction of his SLC torpedo, decided to activate it manually letting himself and his fellow Frogman colleague blowing up with the bomb, only to sink a ship.
The second one, Rosario Randazzo, was a gunner firing with a machinegun, it was hit by a shrapnel that fully amputate his right arm, he continued to fire the machinegun using his theets until he died.
I never heard of cowardice. I just heard of ill-equipped and ill-trained without a strong industrial base like Germany.
@@zenster1097 Sadly today childs and trolls do a meshup of all propagandized stereotypes, so the "french was cowards in WWII" propagandized stereotype merged with the Italians and vice versa.
No doubt the Italians fought better under German leadership. Italians risked execution for cowardice - a big motivator!
@@billballbuster7186 Italians was persecuted and executed also under Mussolini only to not having the fascist party membership. Italians was everything but surely not cowards.
@@solinvictus1234 During Operation Compass 1940-41 it was officially recorded that British troops would open fire on an Italian position. The Italians would fire a shot or two in return, then raise a white and surrender. Why do this when the Italians were far superior in artillery and aircraft???
They certainly did not want to fight, so what would you call it?
Italian here, there is an elephant in the room that gets never mentioned. Steel. Italy didn't have access to cheap coal. making steel for weaponry was significantly more expensive and hard to acquire in general.
Vero
And Oil. Germany basically used 90% of oil produced in Romania (which was the only source available to the axis, thanks to the formidable Royal Navy blocking all seas, and the other oil fields being in Russia). So they could not use airplane or ships as much as they wanted since they have to ratio every single gallon available
Steel in chemistry it's just 98% Fe and 1.5% C, as far I understand we are considering access to coal important as source for the 1.5% of carbon, but with good logistics (so with good leadership) wood or biomasses could be good replacement for the carbon requirements
e naturalmente la corruzione imperante, vedi ad es. i test truccati dell'Ansaldo (corazze par navi), o le mazzette date ai funzionari governativi incaricati di controllare la qualità dell'equipaggiamento prodotto, ecc.
I'm 67, born of WW2 , much studied. Italian Artillery, brilliant, Airforce, great Pilots under equipped except for the Triple Engined Torpedo bombers Brilliant very brave men. Once in Australia I crossed a book in a shop about an Italien Cavalry leader in Ethiopia, I should have bought it. Italian Human torpedoes in Alexandria and Gibraltar absolutely brilliant. I am a top level scuba diver. Those men were very skilled and VERY Brave.
Penso che il comandante di cui parla il libro fosse Amedeo Guillet.
@@umbertobardini785 pensavo lo stesso. comprai un libro di un autore eirese intitolato "Amedeo". Libro ecellente, soldato eccezionale.
to Peter Turnham: regarding the cavalry office, I suspect you are referring to Amedeo Guilett.
@@nni9310 Sì, l'ho letto anch'io: molto interessante. Ne scrive anche Indro Montanelli in un suo volume che parla di personaggi che ha conosciuto. So che la RAI voleva fare uno sceneggiato sulle imprese di Amedeo Guillet, ma poi non ha proseguito nell'intento.
I think the book was about Amedeo Guillet, an amazing man, you should try abd read about him when you can ;)
Thank you. The saddest part is that, with WWII becoming a political issue, in the ‘60 and ‘70 many Italian scholars were just too eager to reinforce those myths.
Communists
Correct
>WWII becoming a political issue
Lmao what
@@AR-yd2ndcommunists hating on our soldiers and their serving coz they were under fascist orders
@@AR-yd2nd you really don't know?
Italy shoot down more than 2000 airplanes ,sank more than 200 ships (merchant and military ) and won more than 10 battles. Respect and thanks to this video and objectivity
Andar pel vasto mar! Ridendo in faccia a monna morte ed al nemico! 🇮🇹
The German officers retreating with the Alpini said "my panzer are the alpini" and called the soldiers "pikolo panzer" (tiny tank)
piccolo
@@ANDREA57ITAera come lo dicevano i tedeschi.
A Panzer is a big alpino then 😂
Respect and many thanks for this video and its obiectivity. In memory of all the brave Italian soldiers who lost their lives in WWII 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹
I have one name for y'all. Lt. Amedeo Guillet. The "Devil Commander".
Right! Very few know about him, but he was an incredible man. Thanks for mentioning him.
@@michelebarile6218 Our version of Lawrence of Arabia; but without a kolossal to boast about him ;)
People forget that a LOT of the early surrenders by Italians was of troops in the desert with no water supplies because the British had blown the water tankers up as a priority target.
Dying from thirst or surrendering… sounds kinda more sensible suddenly.
Right but if you allow yourself to get surrounded and don't disperse and protect your water supplies then that's also incompetence.
@@pgf289 if your enemy have more aircrafts , more artillery and more troops , it's not incompetence . UK spent 50% of his GDP on the army during ww2 , causing famine in regions like India and Pakistan . Mussolini simply asked Italy more than what Italy had.
@@locusta4662 But the Italians had more of all of those things in 1940, and they lost.
@@pgf289 Lost where ?
And not many trucks either so they couldn't move around much.
I believe Rommel in his Diary stated, "Italians are good Camerates, The best Italian troops if well equipped can compete with the best German troops"
He also said that Italians were “lions led by donkeys”
If I recall correctly, in Europe the ethnicity that served most in the American army in WWII was of Italian descent.
My great-grandfather stories are enough for me to understand how brave our soldier were, despite all the difficulties they fought like lions
The Italian Beretta 1934 pistol was the absolute 💯 best sidearm in WW2!!
the last cavalry ( with horses) charge of military History ( and victorious)
Ma per caso intendi quella contro i russi sul fronte orientale? Non mi sembra sia stata un successo...morirono tutti e soltanto un cavallo sopravvisse...
Presumo sia quella di Amedeo Gulliet
@@luigidomenicopace1329in Russia ne fecero 2. In quella venuta bene morirono solo in 300 e catturarono oltre 3500 russi.
The fighter FIAT G.55 in 1943, after comparation with Focke-Wulf 190 and Messerchmitt Bf 109, was regarded by Luftwaffe as "the best Axis fighter"
Germany they even think to use G.55 (and 56 too) insteand BF and FW, but they change idea when they ear need x3 time to make one G.55 instead a BF or FW
They had it in high regard but they found it inferior to their planes by default because it was poorly suited as a fighter bomber
Objectively speaking, it was more or less on the same tier of the latest versions of the Spitfire and the Messerschmit of the time but it was poorly suited for mass production
The problem was not how good could be a fighter . The problem was how many you can produce
The problem is that in Italy we have this lovely habit to be the first ones that love to destroy anything an Italian does, specially if starts to do it good and start to get international recognition. If we want to know why the Italian army always had the bad reputation that we all know lets see what the chief in command General Cadorna had to say about his soldiers to cover his and almost all of his officials mistakes in Caporetto battle. Some Italians are so proud that prefer to spread bad news about us before the victorious enemy do it.
La causa risale al tempo del risorgimento, voluto dall' Inghilterra non dal popolo italiano. La nazione italiana non è mai esistita se non con l'oppressione dei Savoia sullo stato della Chiesa e delle due Sicilie. D'altronde anche a casa loro gli inglesi hanno lo stesso problema con scozia e Irlanda..
@@vrcfncpdci l'Italia non è mai stata una nazione perché l'idea di nazione non è mai esistita fino all'800. Ciò detto paragonare il Vaticano o le due Sicilie a Irlanda o Scozia vuole dire non avere un'idea della storia.
falso gli Italiani erano governati da stranieri che con la forza li tenevano divisi e isolati aumentando così le differenze culturali di linguaggio e culturali...è poi l'italiano è troppo intelligente per amare le guerre piuttosto usa la sua testa per cose più importanti che la distruziione ...pensa che anche il tuo smartphine puo funzionare per merito di un Italiano l'Ing. Cecchin che ha fatto il primo processore che sviluppato ha permesso tutto questo. Cordialmente @@vrcfncpdci
@vrcfnctrueTrue!
l'Italia, a differenza di quello che dicono sopra di me, è sempre stata una nazione, ma non uno stato unito, c'è differenza tra stato e nazione, difatti nell'ottocento si parla di stati-nazione per un motivo
It’s always about leadership, training, and lastly, equipment. No one 2000 years ago made fun of the Italians. Their armies had all 3. You may have heard of them.
2000 years ago Italy?
If you mean the Roman empire, well it was not just made up by people from what is today Italy.
@@eddiecalderone Up to the I century after Christ, almost all officers in the Ancient Roman Army came from the Italian peninsula. The Romans did not feel like putting people from other parts of the empire in strategic positions. Soldiers could come from non-Italian parts of the empire, but officers did not. By the same token, in colonial India Indian units were commanded by British officers, and that's the same story for every empire.
@uffa00001, where did you read it stopped in the 1st century? Up to the third actually. In the 1st century most soldiers, not just officers, were Italians.
@@strattonlad2137
That is a very very very long time ago. It doesn’t matter a great deal.
Nothing has changed, leadership, training and good equipment -all three of them-are necessary to win. I served 20 yrs in the military, in tip of the spear roles, and I have lived what I’m talking about.
After the battle of El Alamein, Sir Winston Churchill said: "…we must bow in front of the remains of the Folgore lions" because the Division had resisted against an attack by two armoured divisions and four infantry divisions.
That was never said. It's a well known fact
Yeah , it’s invented by Italians
Sadly it's a fake historican fact, but there are a few others that are true so don't you worry :)
I don't know how much truth there is in that but I know Churchill and others did have many good things to say about the performance of the Folgore airborne division at Alamein.
I understand the Pavia infantry and Ariete armoured division were also acknowledged as being effective and competent, the San Marco Marines also.
Their torpedo boats were lethality effective against the Pedestal Malta convoy. I gather all the US PT boats at Letter Gulf all missed.
.
@@dywirnach783 I agree, as I said in my comment above the Italian top brass likes a lot of posturing, this statement was even aided by the Italian press up to today. But personally I don't think Churchill ever said something like that.
The Italian .90 millimeter artillery weapon was superb.🇮🇹
Also they did not only resist the German occupation, since Italy split in half, some stayed loyal to the Axis (RSI and ANR).
The ANR pilots fought in battles where they were always outnumbered… and they kept defending Italy from the Allied bombing.
The main issue was that Italian army was poorly equipped.
and poorly led
@@budibausto except generals as Messe.....in Greece they were commanded by Visconti-Prasca and Soddu,generals of commissariate
They had terrible generals who were obsolete. The Americans did also, but quickly adapted.
Bastico was better than Rommel at logistics...
also Giovanni Messe = gigachad
Americans had far more firepower and resources too on top of it
Americans did not adapt quicklier, they had immense firepower. That's why they won ;).
@@FlagAnthem Kesselring,probably the best german general,was friend of bastico,but not of rommel
Italy also got caught right in the middle of a military structural reform as well and had to fall back onto older designs
Peoples listen to US veterans speeches, but nobody has ever listened to Italians veterans speeches, Italians were tough, extremely tough to fight, especially when they had to defend, they were lions, with no supply, nothing to eat, nothing to drink, low ammo, low artillery, in Africa they has not really been defeated by Anglo-American troops, they just retired following order from the “great” wolf of the desert ( which made the axe lose )
Suggest to see:
Battle of Bir El Gobi
Battle of El Alamein
The axe had no enough industrial Power. Thanks ti god
@@giovannichiaranti9775NOOOOO Unfortunately...
The mith of italian soldier's cowardice has been started by General Cadorna after the defeat of Caporetto in 1917 in order to avoid to face his responsibility.
After WWI the Army has been systematically demolished:
-Arditi units were disbanded
-front line officers were discharged while rear echelon ones were promoted
-binary division system enacted in order to provide more positions for generals
-never solved clashes between armed forces
-clashed between the general factions loyal to the king and the fascist regime
Binary system was conceived for improving flexibility and mobility to divisional level.
@@calogerohuygens4430 that's the official reason. The unofficial one is to create more positions for generals. Similarly, in the modern Italian Army, the regiments are battalions with the hq company attached and they are led by a full colonel. In the American one the analogue formation is called battalion and it's led by a lieutenant colonel.
"Cadorna" is the worst swearword in my house (and I was born in the middle of Italy's Blasphemy Belt)
@@roccosfondo8748that’s not correct , the new rules were set to show off, basically it creates on paper an increase of troops for sure used as political gain or other reason you can look on the details between the messages that Mussolini sent to ciano and his military advisor …
@@dywirnach783 the reality was a bit more complex.
Usually generals and admirals persuaded Mussolini of a thing then he rebranded it as a his personal decision.
One more example: admiral Cavagnari held a conference to demonstrate that the Navy needs no carriers then Mussolini come out with the "Italy is a big carrier" statement.
El Alamein was by far the best example of italian courage in my opinion, and some of the survivor went to Russia after and came back to Italy by foot.
If you think all Italians were ineffective or cowardly you should examine their manned mini-submarine accomplishments
Nazario sauro sneaking up to sink the Santo Stefano. In Trieste harbour the big Austrian battleship
Fully pretected yet he did' it
With the human torpido called MAS
Meaning. Moment audere simperit in latin
Long live the Alpini, 🫡 from the Romanian Mountain Riflemen, who did just about the same thing in WW2! You should do an similar episode about the Romanian Army.
My great grandfather served on Sicily and nearly died defending Italia.
Other then El Alamein.. you don't mentioned , the maritime demolition-sabotages operations in the Alexanderia port (which was as the time one of the more fortified port of the allies ) took out by the operator of X°mas whit their SLC(the famous manned torpedo also called PIGS) ..
Specially the operation G A 6/E A 3 which was later on considered one of the first ,if not the first real marines/frogman's underwater raids of the history... Not only but most WWII historians see the X°MAS frogmans/raiders alongside TESO TESEI (founder of the X°) pioneers of military and non immersions techniques....
the heritage of those man's literally riding torpedoes , carry whit them a knife,some nades and a bunch of demoliton chargers whit none or minimum air supply formed and shaped the modern Marine s special forces .
Italy fought in ww2 very hard also if wasn't well equipped against giants like Usa and Soviet Union and also the England was an Empire .RESPECT !
In WWII the hearts of the Italian people were not as dedicated to fighting the Americans as the Germans. Many Italians had relatives on both sides. Another factor overlooked is the Italians essentially switching sides gave an appearance of weakness.
well, I'm not an expert but there's one element also to be considered: italy became a national state just in 1861, then a national army had to be built... Before that there were many smaller kingdoms. Imagine that when in the army, people used to speak different dialects, and cultures, coming from natural and cultural environments that were very different, if you know geography and history of italy. in their national army, a soldier could easily say "I have never seen so many foreigners all together"
Glad to see this video about our army. A lot of myths and misconceptions passed under the bridges in those 80+ years. Thanks
Tks this interesting points. I suggest to explore the achievement of Amedeo Guillet in east Africa after the Italian surrender. Regards
Manco' la fortuna non il valore!
This is the epitaph to the Italian troops engraved in a commemorative stele at El-Alamein!
folgore didn't lost a position in the last moments of the africa campaign, they leaved by tattical retreat when ordered, allied managed to gain one post but soon after folgore got it back, sometimes fighting almost with bare hands.
Mancò la Fortuna, non il Valore
Ahahahahahha
mancò la preparazione alla guerra
ahahah credici...manco' una classe dirigente capace invece di un branco di fascisti raccomandati...
MANCO TUTTO TRANNE IL VALORE.
Well documented and well presented. Thanks.
The Italian artillery of WW Two was awesome!🇮🇹
Commander J.V. Borghese of the tenth light flotilla, Italian navy; "Black prince of Rome", was a outstanding 👌 legendary, talented, and courageous leader.
@@steventhorson4487 there were even better examples than Borghese my dude
Great topic! Maybe do a follow up about specific battles situations where they excelled?
The Guest was very interesting and gave a Great Presentation on the Subject of the Italian Military during WW II.
They were very brave, however they didn’t have enough artillery, air cover or armor as well as logistics. Ultimately they were hung out to dry by the panzer corps. They surrendered bec they were brave, not stupid.
It seems we had also problems with the navy ammo built with tolerances not strict enough and that made Italian navy gun to be less precise than required, especially when your opponent has radar on his ships.
Nice video, great editing and fantastic pictures. subscribed.
To note that in the El Alamein battle retreat, ordered by Rommel, 4 divisions were ordered to protect the retreat, 3 italian (Littorio, Trieste and Ariete) and 1 german (15 panzer).
Than add that many italian infantry troops were not motorized divisions, so had no trucks for a faster retreat as have done the german units.
Same scenario in Russia, italian troops ordered to protect german troops retreat.
Even worse in URSS campaign italian officers were very often not informed by german officers of the front situation and plans.
As in Africa italian troop were let behind to fight to protect german troop retreat.
as the French at Dunkerque
Il soldato tedesco ha stupito il mondo...il bersagliere ha stupito il soldato tedesco... E. Rommel...
It’s a false statement Rommel never said those words
Non lo ha mai detto.
Falso storico bro
@@dywirnach783 it is false. But the rommel diary are not . R spoke extremeley well about italian in his diary and it could not be different as his army was mostly Italian .
@@dywirnach783 sai una sega te
at the end of african campaign in Tunisia, the allies were held off by the italians for so long that they thought they were being commanded by Rommel, instead it was Messe who was commanding the axis troops and made the allies think Rommel was still in africa
More on this subject matter please 🙏
Yes, please!
I had been under the impression the Italian troops proper were fine, it was the unmotivated colonial troops pressed into service which led the Italian military down, along with the insufficient weaponry. Italians had a solid fighter plane, excellent Navy for the time but no fuel.
Italian Regia Marina was a beast. If it had possessed fuel, they'd have run the English Regia Marina out of the Mediterranean.
Some colonial troops yes, mostly in Libya since it always was a "problem colony" (by that I mean that people were rightfully mad about foreign domination)
Eritrean and Somali troops in East Africa fought like lions. Most of the Italian Army in East Africa was native colonial troops commanded by Italians.
Amedeo Guillet, leader of the Gruppo Bande Amhara, claimed "whatever we will ever do for Eritrea will never make up for what Eritrea has done for us"
@@Deridusthat’s completely false , the Italian navy models were lighter and faster of the British but also that means smaller protection and guns …
Also add that many ammunition for the guns tend to fail , the Italian army stayed most of the time hidden in the ports too scared to seriously fight head on with the British alone …
Also the Italian fighter was decent but never serialized and too low on numbers ..
The only successful fights head on the German aircraft always supported the Italians
@vandelberger
It’s untrue , in North Africa the Italian army was under equipped , graziani during the first offensive sent an army bigger than 100th men’s against the British …
In the desert mobility is the key to win the conflict and Italian didn’t have the equipment to fight properly the enemy they were sitting ducks waiting for the British to cut through the army like butter
So much excuses in defense of a fascist regime that fled the moment they meet the actual opponent.
Great video. Thanks!
Finally. Thank you
And Rommel Must know it. He fought the Italians in the Isonzo Battles - where he earned his Pour Le Merite and he let them succesfully through Most of the north african campaign. He used them as aggressively as the german Tank Divisions
Also, the fortune of Rommel in WWII was made by Italians. The Italian secret service was capable to infiltrate the US embassy in Rome, retrievint unnoticed the allies codex, passing it to Rommel, then retrieving back in the US Embassy also unnoticed.
Lather in the North African campaign, when Rommel was anticipatinf any allies tactics, the British started to thinking that the axis had his hands on the allies codex, so they changed it and Rommel started to lose.
Few people know - that Rommel abandoned his Italian allies in North Africa.
He stripped the Italians of almost every tank, truck & artillery piece for his own army's use.
He later arranged for the evacuation of just his own Afrika corp soldiers. He simply dumped them.
@@PaxAlotin-j6r True.
Non è Vero... AdEl Alamein Rommel. Non aveva la possibilità di Aiutare gli. Italiani.@@PaxAlotin-j6r
ROMMEL NON ERA SLEALE.
Very interesting and important contribution. Thank you very much.
You could never call us "cowards".
Oh my God , thanks for your unbiased work.
The last cavalry charge, Izbushensky, by Savoia Cavalleria. As yoy said hisfory is written by the winner
donìt touch Alpini
There was also more Italian Americans who fought and died for America in ww2
I don't think Walter would disagree that there are cases where the winners are not the exclusive writers of history. Specifically, the Germans did a lot of the writing out of WWII. In part this was for practical reasons. On official grounds they were a source of lessons learned vs. the Soviets. On purely historical grounds the Soviets weren't very forthcoming (and what was available was so politically motivated as to greatly reduce its value). A significant number of the German writers took advantage of this opportunity, writing for which they were openly paid by the Allies at times, to tweak the history to their liking. Well, the Italians are easy fall guys in those circumstances.
It is notable that the local POW cemetery consists of a a dozen or so Germans grouped together. The sole Italian is off in his own little corner. Best available resources say he died after a prolonged illness and had demanded that not be buried with the Germans. Interesting.
While I was in the US Navy, I was stationed in Italy in the early 1980s and I got to know quite a few older Italians who told me stories about their military service umber Mussolini. They were all very interesting.
The problem of fascist Italy is that Mussolini, like all dictators, surrounded himself in command roles with those he trusted and not the best. At all levels, especially military. Suffice it to say that the forces were not coordinated by a single central command precisely so as not to take away the "Glory" from this or that general.
And let me say he surrounded himself with “yes men” that did nothing but making things worse getting along with the worst stuff imaginable Mussolini did
More than three hundred thousand Italian soldiers were killed in combat during WW2. Were they all cowards? I don't think so; had they been cowards, they would have returned home safe and sound.
THANK YOU !! By a Proud Italian
James Hanson deploying the most expressive eyebrow, in historical broadcasting, with great success!
An army badly equipped and badly managed, sent against superpowers... I am terrifically honoured of my ancestors courage to even think to go in battle! Just one name for you all to study: Italo Balbo.
@@flavioavella5374 ci sono nomi molto più adatti
Great video keep making them and the views will come.
Graziani ignored reports of British troop movements. He had his troops dig in and became sitting targets
None of these comments mentions just how many soldiers volunteered to fight side by side with US troops after September 1943, pushing Germans out of the country and taking down the very brothers who instead had decided to stay loyal to Mussolini. Indeed "mancò la Fortuna, non il Valore"
What about the hundreds of thousands who served in the armed forces of RSI despite was already lost? The troops of the cobelligerant army were little thing compared to them
The Italian 10th Light Flotilla (La Decima Flottiglia MAS) which included the despatch sloop Diana, two large motor torpedo-boats 451 and 452, two midget submarines, a midget submarine carrier, a flotilla leader and nine e-boats under the overall command of Capitano di Fregata Vittorio Moccagatta attacked the Malta Grand Harbour on July 26, 1941. However, the attack was unsuccessful and only managed to destroy part of the breakwater at the entrance to the harbour, one has to admire the execution and planning of the attack which was only repulsed by sheer luck and a series of unlucky mishaps on the Italian side.
Hallo from Germany, thank you very much for this excellent video!
Grat job, grazie.
GRAZIE
my grandfather fought in Russia and died there. he was an alpino.
People tend to forget that the reason why there was a conflict in north africa, and why Rommel went there and formed the Africa Korps is beacause Italy had colonies there. The conflict was between Italy and Britain and the Germans came later to help their allies. There would have been no conflict in north Africa if not for that reason.
The Axis Army in North Africa was 2/3 Italians even after Germans arrived. All the praise Rommel gets is actually Italy's merit, meanwhile Rommel in fact made strategic blunders and is overrated.
Many of the italian soldiers after september 8. 1943 became partisans. Without their lazy generals they self organized fighting very well.
“Only the Italian Alpini Corps is to be considered unbeaten on the Russian front...” -- Radio Moscow, 26 January 1943.
This is yet another myth to be busted. That communiquè never happened
I'm Italian and my grandfather fought with brave and honor and courage in East Africa, his brother in low in Russia and another uncle in north Africa. So said that, the sentence you posted is simply not true, despite it can be read almost everywhere :-)
Questa è una colossale balla.. rispetto il coraggio degli italiani che combattevano praticamente disarmati ma queste stupide citazioni sono ridicole
@@gtangari I've always been sceptical about the quote - I doubt Stalin's Soviet Union would praise any enemy, unless it was meant to embarrass the Germans.
Lol that was never said by the Soviets
But bad equipped and even worse ruled. Mancò la fortuna non il coraggio
Rommel also said: the German soldier stupified the world, but the Bersaglieri stupified the German soldier. He was referring to the battle of El Alamein...
Sorry but Rommel never said so. If you have the source I would be glad to know it. This does not imply that some units fought superbly well in Alamein
I learnt a great deal here. Furthermore even the German performance in WW2 is becoming victim of the misrepresentation as described here. Namely that much of their equipment was interior to the Allies and the gact that they eventually lost proves thay weren't as good. People seem to conflate the fact that they were fighting of an eveil ideology with beiing geneally not as good. Or perhaps it's simply an unwillingness to admit Allied inferiority in at least some key areas.
I used to believe this as well. Part of it was the images of an entire Italian army surrendering to one British soldier. This was after Cunningham's offensive that routed the Italians.
Among other problems was having 6 models of machine guns and nine different rifles... none of which used the same ammunition. (a friend of mine read this from designer's notes for a board game about North Africa, so make of it what you will.)
Actually the Armed Forces leadership was not selected on the basis of political affinity to fascism, but on seniority (which wasn't as well a good selection criterion)
My cousin is a italo-american that served as Marine, my father was a Alpino, and my cousin always said that the Alpini is the only italian corps that actually scares him.
O7 thank's for the kind word to my father's brother in arms corp.
Rommel was canonized because ultimately he participated in the July 20th coup. If he hadn't, he would have been given the same treatment as Keitel.
I'd like to read his 2 books about on this subject what are the titles?
The problem with the Italian forces in WW2 is that they were relatively poorly trained and very poorly equipped. Their worst failing however, was leadership, which was dreadful in most cases. When incorporated into Rommel’s forces they performed very well.
The current best italian researcher about this argument is Alberto Alpozzi. I invite the Italian compatriots, and foreign friends, to look at his works.
The (very) large numbers of Italian prisoners taken may have had something to do with it. So may have the British advance under O'Conner and their failure to take Tobruk.
Read Ian W. Walker's "Iron Hulls Iron Hearts: Mussolini's Elite Armoured Divisions in North Africa"
"Italiani brava gente"
What about the Italian American during the WW2? How well did they perform?
For a look at Italian military leadership in Libya and Egypt, read "ROMMEL'S ITALIAN GENERALS IN NORTH AFRICA 1941-1943."
15:30 ... As an Italian, i lived in Germany for 2 years ... I lost 30 kilos there ... The food was terrible 😂 , (only ice cream was good)
X MAS first scuba torpedo commando!!!
At minute 9.19 you state that the Germans had this idea that the NCO weren't able to do anything by themselves? I'd presume there was an error and you were referring to the japanese since you were speaking about them, and the concept of "Auftragstaktik" the germanas adheared to since the times of Prusdia states exactly the oppsite, that NCO's etc. should have the ability and possibilty to decide for themselves during the heat of the combat and seize opportunities as those present themself?
It's not true that the Italians were cowards but what actually is true that their machine guns all sounded like "boobedi-bahbedi-boobedi-bahbedi" when firing.
the fact remains, the italian ground forces, overall, performed poorly wherever they were engaged. not because their troops were "cowardly", but for lots of other reasons.
20th century Italian army was much like the 19th century British Amy. Officers bought their commission. Wealthy chaps who liked the uniform and sword bought in. Arguably not the greatest way to pick your Officer corp.
Not true - the Italian officers never bought their commissions.
Their appointments were decided on the basis of loyalty to Mussolini and who they knew in the system.
Frankly - that made it worse - since the legitimately bright and clever ones officers in their ranks - were overlooked for promotion.
The difference is Britain won their wars Italy didn't. that is the difference.
@@ChrisCrossClash the difference is that Italy has won 10 wars out of 9 I bet his educational qualification is baptism
@@fabriziopastorino3792
Well Italy must have lost the most important one.
@@eddiecalderone the discussion is another, we were discussing military history, but we are older and we will see the future