WiiM Mini vs Pro vs Pro Plus. Don't choose the wrong one!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
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A review of the WiiM Mini, WiiM Pro and WiiM Pro Plus including comparisons of their analog outputs, digital outputs and how they compare to the EverSolo DMP-A6 and DMP-A8. Is this the best value streamer on the market? Is there any point spending more than the WiiM Mini or WiiM Pro?
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00:00 Introduction
01:08 Models & pricing
02:38 Specs & features
03:45 Device tours
07:15 Specification differences
08:46 Using with Google
09:37 Extra features
12:04 Sound quality
12:54 WiiM Pro Plus vs external DAC
15:17 WiiM Pro Plus vs EverSolo DMP-A6 streamer
16:26 WiiM Pro Plus vs WiiM Pro
18:37 Pro Plus vs Pro as streamer only
20:11 WiiM Mini vs WiiM Pro
22:49 Wrap-up
#audiophile #audioreview #streamer - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Thanks so much for this comparison! I’m presently feeding my WiiM Mini stream to a Topping stack, so I will be upgrading to the Pro…
… however, the additional point I want to make to your review is how well the WiiM(s) work with JRiver. I found the WiiM sluggish with generic DLNA, but I believe the WiiMs allow for connecting with the JRiver catalog, rather than the file structure & individual files’ metadata. The result is 10x quicker for loading, syncing and selection. It allows for using JRiver’s own app (iOS & Android) and pointing the app’s (i.e., JR server) output to the WiiM… easy, peasy…
I too have a Wiim Mini using an external DAC and had wondered if upgrading to a different streamer would make any difference. I will now be upgrading to the Wiim Pro too. I'll have to explore JRiver as I don't know much about it.
@@pcm9969
You may find its initial cost a bit expensive, but if your library is large, its well worth the dough and its cost is much less than Roon for the same functionality. I do wish JRiver would update its forum however, as it is access to JRiver’s support team and is difficult to search
Thanks for sharing your experiences with JRiver! That could be really helpful for some users.
What reasonable priced (to start) DAC would you recommend to pair with the wiim pro plus and klipsch The Fives?
My budget for the DAC is around $300
There isn't a huge range of DAC types at that price - they'll all be one or other variant of a chip-based Delta Sigma DAC which means you're not having to consider R2R or Multibit in the equation. I've got a bunch of DACs listed here in price order. I recommend all of them: bit.ly/RecDACs
I just wanted to say thank you. I have watched several reviews of the Wiim's. You are the only person so far who has actually answered my questions and compared the streaming functions. Seriously you wouldn't imagine it would be that hard to find an answer to a common sense question. Yet your the first that I have found. I greatly appreciate it and your other work.
I had searched all over to find a direct comparison of ONLY the streaming performance using an external DAC. Like you, I thought this would be an obvious video to produce. Thanks to Lachlan, we finally have one.
I'm so glad I could be helpful (and shocked that no-one else did it). 🙂
Same. I’ve watched a lot of these videos and this is the first time I understand what it does.
Fantastic. You nailed almost every question i had. Thank you!
My pleasure. Glad I could help!
One of the best comparison videos I have watched. Excellent detail, presented in a calm educated manner. You never lost my attention. I have subscribed and look forward to your other videos. Glad to have found you!
!
Thanks so much for the sub! I'm glad you liked the video. 🙂
Very informative comparison. Thank you 👍
I'm glad I could help!
A few things to mention: the Pro Plus weight is partly due to extra ballast in the base, the Pro and Pro Plus also now run Squeezelite so you can stream to them from LMS; the Mini does not do Chromecast or Squeezelite.
I wondered about the possibility of extra weight having been added to the Plus. Thanks for the extra info.
Very interesting, Mr Cool. I had a Squeezebox touch, which, for a while, was the bees knees of streaming. Its good to know Squeezelite endures. Incidentally, I had the Touch for years before, watching Darko, I realised that the lovely blue shade on the chrome finish was a protective film which should be removed.
I just got the Pro Plus. I will be pairing with the Topping E50 to compare the two DACs with my 2-channel system. You say the WiiM does not have an interface however, it is noted as having an excellent software UI that has lots of cross compatibility and a great EQ function. The Plus also comes with the voice remote included. I stream to my office, theater system and bedroom movie system with dedicated Mini PCs. I control them with a wireless keyboard/mouse. I am integrating Google Home with everything soon. I had the Zen Stream/Zen DAC V2 for my 2-channel but traded it for a pair of Klipsch kg4 vintage speakers. The Zen sounds amazing, but I thought I would just get another $250 Mini PC, till I found the Wiim Pro Plus. Love your videos. Thank you!
That will be a VERY interesting comparison! I'd expect the E50 to come out ahead, but it might not...
When I mentioned the interface, I was referring to a touch screen with menus, etc. on the device. The app is amazing as you say - one of the very best I've seen.
Thank you for this review, the only one I've listened to that compares digital outputs of Pro and Pro+. Since I stream digital data to my Schiit DAC, this was the main issue for me.
Until now, I used my venerable Squeezebox Touch through Logitech Media Server installed on my PC. Logitech has stopped support of LMS a few months ago. It's still possible to stream to the Touch local music files on the PC hard drive, but it became extremely difficult or impossible to stream music from Qobuz and other services. So, choosing a successor to the Squeezebox Touch became my main objective. I understand that I will still be able to stream from the computer through Logitech Media Server to the Wiim Pro, while the software will allow an easy interface to Qobuz, without having to keep the PC running: the best of both worlds. :-)
Have had my pro since March. Had always connected it to one of 3 DACs at any given time. (Audio Alchemy DAC doesn't do HiRes. It's from the 90's) Tried the Line Out and I'm happy to comment how good it sounded in my 2 speaker system.
That's great to hear. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for the presentation. I'm having a hard time understanding the external DAC. At 12m:54s you compare Wiim's internal DAC to a "high quality, eternal option" (specifically the EverSolo DMP A6). Why not just use the EverSolo A6 and forget about the Wiim altogether? Does Wiim Pro Plus do anything that the Eversolo A6 doesn't?
Yes, sorry for the confusion. The EverSolo can also act as a DAC in addition to being a streamer. I used it's internal DAC because it made comparisons easy. I could go WiiM to A6 and then compare with the A6 streaming to its own internal DAC.
First off--amazing video! Thank you!
Beginner question: How does one "bypass" the Wiim DACS? (if connecting to an external DAC)?
Just use the optical out (to the ext Dac)? What happens if one uses the RCA out to an ext Dac?
Glad you liked the video.
When it comes to the connection and bypassing the DAC, using the RCA outputs requires the WiiM's DAC to decode the streamed audio from data to an audio signal (analog). Using the optical or coaxial output will automatically bypass the WiiM DAC and take the data straight from the incoming streamed signal to let your external DAC handle the decoding.
Thank you for the detailed comparison. One additional detail - if I am using the Pro or the Pro Plus only like streamers then does the EQ and the PEQ work? Or they work only for the analog outputs?
I use them (pro and pro plus) with an external DAC, and the EQ works in the digital domain.
Great question! Thank you, Rick for the answer.
Thank you from Sweden!🇸🇪
I have used my Technics SL-G700 as a streamer for Tidal to my Technics SU-R1000. Very expensive gears.
But sometimes it have stopped working. I have tried everything to fix the streaming problem with no success.
When I bought the Wiim pro plus connected to my SU-R1000 with spdif, I couldn´t be happier.
It sound fantastic and all the problems with Tidal and SL-G700 was gone 😀
Now I only use my SL-G700 as an CD/SACD player.
The Wiim pro plus as a streamer, software and user interface is so much better.
That's great news! Their software implementation is excellent. Sounds like the reliability is too. 🙂
Great comparisons. As a mini owner , it works for me with an outdoor speaker setup but when I replace my indoor system I will be buying one of the 2 larger boxes.
I have a mini and pro. When I demoed the A6, immediately switched to it and never looked back. I use the mini in my office and the pro in another room connected to active speakers. The A6 ME is my daily streamer connected to a DAC and HP amp.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Nice comparison. People must accept you don’t get the best components with whatever Wiim you choose. The power supply is a very cheap switch supply and the other components are all not the best you can get. Also the housing is real cheap plastic. So my advice is to invest in a good amp with high quality dac with good power supply, like Hegel for example and buy a streamer with a good low noise (aftermarket) power supply. That makes a hell of a difference.
As someone interested in only a digital streamer, this was exactly what I needed. Looking forward to the future comparisons!
I'm glad it was helpful. The WiiMs have to go back, but I now know that the streaming stage of the DMP-A6 is equivalent to the WiiM Pro/Pro Plus so I can use that as a reference point.
I have a whim mini and was thinking of getting the pro plus or a power node by Bluesound. My budget is limited since I retired. But I do have a Hegel H160 and Magnepan 1.7 speakers. Any recommendations ?? I accidentally spelled Wiim wrong,,,,lol
I haven't played with the Bluesound, but the Pro Plus is definitely a solid option.
Outstanding as always Lachlan. Finally, someone whose opinion I value has reviewed the WiiM trifecta in one video. I have both the Pro & Pro+ and totally agree with your findings. For critical listening, you need to run to an external DAC but for anything else these rock. The WiiM app is updated every week at least and is an excellent interface. Thank you and keep up the great work.
I'm glad you liked the review! I completely agree that these are perfect for anything short of high end critical listening. And even then, just adding an external DAC takes them to the next level.
I just got the Wiim Pro. So far love it. I have a great DAC and needed a way to stream Hi Res into it, this works great. I have Amazon and Tidal, this works with both and a bunch of others. The pro has better connectivity tan the mini, the Pro plus was more than I needed, so I went with the Pro.
Great choice. The Pro is perfect for your type of setup.
Have you found that when using Amazon music through the app that there is a delay of about 5-10 seconds when changing songs? That has been the only thing that has bothered me so far. I get around that by using Google home app and using my phones Amazon music app.
Hello,
In WiiM Pro and in general, does the Coax Audio Output is SPDIF Coax?
Thanks
That's correct 🙂
Excellent review! One small omission is that the Wiim Pro plus comes with a remote. This may or may not influence a buying decision but is worth mentioning, especially since you can see it on cover of the box on your table. 😃
One can also buy the regular Pro with the remote bundled. I did.
I just bought the pro at a reduced price from Amazon and came with a remote. However if you use the app I couldn't see the use of the remote unless for voice control using Alexa.
@@carlosalvarez7445 you can setup , 4 preset to Fav Radio, playlist ...
Yes. That's a good point that I forgot to mention the remote. I was so focused on covering all the SQ stuff that it slipped my mind.
So I have a external DAC I would like to use so what would be the best port to send it to my DAC? Thanks
It varies from DAC to DAC so I'd suggest trying each input and see what you like the most.
thanks, that was exactly what I needed to know, I was thinking of purchasing eversolo A6, Now I see don't need anymore since I have the wiim pro and it already gives what it's necessary
Excellent! So glad I could help 🙂
I have a wiim pro, BlueSound node (latest rev) and Sonore Ultra rendu w/upgraded LPS. All three are fed to external dacs. The wiim pro I think o got for $120 a year ago on sale is fantastic. The SQ is great and native steaming of amazon is helpful. There are puts and takes to all 3 but the wiim can’t be beat the price.
I agree. Thanks for sharing 🙂
Great review. Wish you covered the added functionality of the included remote of the Pro Plus however.
Yes. Sorry about that. It got lost in the mix because I'm a desktop listener and had so much other stuff to consider.
Nice review as always since I've been seeing your content. Im sorely thinking fof the eversolo dmp a6 or a8 but the price is 4 - 6 times of the Wiim pro plus. Ok granted the dac section is superior in the eversolo but the price of the wiim is so attractive especially in these hard times.
Yeah, it's a tough one. The WiiM Pro Plus will be plenty for a lot of people and you can always tack on an external DAC later if you want to further upgrade the sound.
I don't have the issues you spoke of with the WiiM mini with either my SMSL SU-1 DAC, or my Schiit Modi 3. I listen to all types of music with clean, clear, realistic music. To each his on.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! 🙂
Thank you for the comprehensive comparison of the trio's features and sound quality. Your review was excellent. While it's reassuring that the streaming sound quality and app interface of Wiim Pro / Pro+ are comparable to the DMP-A6, for a complete replacement, I'd hope that Wiim could incorporate USB in/out 3.0 ports. This addition would support PCM higher than 24/192 and DSD, as well as local music playback-features I find essential. I personally don't prioritize the display, UV meter, or other technical aspects found in the A6, but the absence of USB connections for these features is a limiting factor.
Moreover, I also like the PEQ in the Wiim Pro / Pro+, not available in the everSolo until the much pricier A8 model. This creates an immediate $1k+ price saving that I could use to invest a top notch r2r DAC such as Gustard R26 or Pontus II.
I believe the DMP-A6 has just received a firmware update to add the EQ functions (I haven't confirmed this yet).
As for adding USB, that's a more complex addition to the outputs and is why other devices are larger and cost more than the WiiMs. I agree that it would be valuable, but it would also change the value proposition of the WiiMs.
I bought the WiiM Pro a few days before the WiiM Pro Plus was released. Did I make a mistake? I use a Schiit external DAC for most listening and have no plans to use the analog inputs. You answered every question I had about upgrading. The WiiM Pro is the best value for my use case. The lower WiiM Mini performance with digital outputs was also interesting. Thanks for doing a comprehensive and intelligent review.
and only WiiM pro is Roon ready ,
My pleasure, not Elvis. 🙂
Just ordered wiim pro. My dac is geshelli JNOG2 [J2]. Should I use toslink or coaxial . Any difference?
I don't have a WiiM here to test, but there shouldn't be a significant difference. Theoretically, optical should isolate the DAC from any noise coming from the WiiM so that's probably the best bet with all else being equal.
Excellent comparison!
I'm planning on buying a WiiM to get Spotify in to my 30 year old Bang & Olufsen Beocenter 9500. I'm going to use the analogue output from WiiM and not an external DAC. Is it worth getting the Pro over the Mini when it is connected to such an old system?
Glad you liked the video.
Yes, definitely go for the Pro. Even though it's old, the B&O gear will have plenty of resolution to reveal the difference between the Mini and Pro. You could probably even justify going to the Pro Plus if you wanted to.
@@PassionforSound Hi. Thanks for the advice, I will go for the Pro and even see if I can squeeze in a Pro Plus in the budget.
Good evening from Toronto.
I went with the Wiim Pro feeding a Topping E50 DAC ( with IFI power supply) ..and for my headphone stack it’s damn good!
Now I’m interested in your end statement..a Wimm Pro Vs. a higher end dedicated streamer…🤔🤔🤔
Great video.
Take care and enjoy the weekend.
That's a great little setup, you've described! I'm excited to receive the D3 for review this week or next. That will be a VERY interesting test.
Thank you very much for this thorough comparison! I already use a WiiM Mini and a WiiM Pro. A WiiM Pro Pus should arrive on Monday. I totally agree with you that even when using the digital output, the Mini is worse compared with the Pro. Therefore, the Mini does not feed my headphone system, but my bedroom setup with Klipsch The Fives powered speakers. The Pro is temporarily connected to my primary headphone setup. The Pro Plus will be tested with it next week. I'm really curious about the results.
I'm glad you liked it! I hope you enjoy the Pro Plus. It's an excellent device for the money.
great review … thanks for all of the information. I have three WiiM Pro’s and the sync feature is pretty amazing when running all three systems are once, and it does work really quite well. keep up the good work!
Thanks for sharing your experience with the sync function! Glad you liked the review. 🙂
If I’m connecting RCA cables from the Pro or Pro Plus to the Aux output of an older Yamaha receiver, will there be a significant difference in sound quality between the Pro and the Pro Plus?
It will ultimately depend on the quality of the receiver and speakers, but the Pro Plus should still be noticeably better.
What a great review. Thanks a lot, u did a great job there. As many had and would say the best comparisson of the wiim products so far. Greetings from Colombia.
I'm so glad you feel that way. Thanks for watching and commenting! 🙂
Nicely Done.
First review to point out the optical output difference from the Wiim mini vs Pro :)
If a better power supply was being used for only the Wiim using the optical out or an external dac
which one would benefit more ?
Thanks
Are you saying would the WiiM Mini or WiiM Pro benefit more from an external power supply? That's an interesting question. My educated guess would be that the higher level starting point of the Pro would allow an even better sound with improved power. The Mini might start to close the gap on the Pro in its stock form, but then why not just buy the Pro? 🙂
Thanks for the quick reply. My bad for not being more clear.
If you were not using the internal dac on the Wiim vs an external dac
which unit would benefit more with an external power supply ? @@PassionforSound
That's a very interesting question if the DAC isn't used. It will all depend on the cause of the Mini's poorer sound quality. If it's a lack of power filtering that is the problem, then a linear supply might lift it to a similar level of performance as the Pro. I suspect there might be more to it than that though so maybe I'll test both against the incoming Lumin D3 with a linear supply for the WiiMs.
Were you running the WiiM Mini bit-perfect? The inferior SoC is indeed an issue in volume normalization and EQ, but is it also an issue if you are avoiding the DAC *AND* DSP altogether?
Yes. All bit perfect with no volume, EQ or any other kind of adjustment (I double checked when the performance was lacking). Others have reported the same experience.
I'll guess that the power filtering in the larger units is better, and this could also be making a difference in the streaming quality. I know that adding a better power supply to my Node 2i (that I use for streaming only) makes a big improvement in the sound quality.
That's my guess too, Neil
Guess ! Your wrong.
What is your for old yamaha receiver,wiim mini or pro?Thanks
I'd always go for the Pro.
13:35 I have noticed this with the AKM4493S chip in my external DAC too. I have been doing comparisons between that and the Burr Brown in my NAD C338 and it’s less a question of which one I like than which one I dislike less.
Either way, the WiiM Pro is on my list and somewhere down the track, the EverSolo.
Yes. Unfortunately, we're a bit limited by some of these DAC chips unless they're really well implemented. Hope you enjoy your upgrades as they happen!
@@PassionforSound Thank you.
I’d love it if they would offer a straight streamer with the apple app compatibility like the eversolo.
I also wish eversolo would do a streamer only option, because a lot of us don’t need the dac, we already have high end dacs and just want a great streamer with the great screen and album art etc..
yes! The only reason I'm looking at the A6 is for Apple Music integration! That's the beauty of the android workaround!
I'm actually wondering how much cost the inclusion of a DAC adds. It's probably a pretty small margin so I don't know that a device like this would be much cheaper if it were a streamer only. They could perhaps make it a little smaller, but you'd still wash space for that lovely screen.
Excellent review as always! If wiim mini had a i2s or coax or even a usb out it would be an excellent deal. We could feed it into an isolator then a buffer and reclocker with low noise power supplies. More boxes = better sound 😉
Perhaps, but also Schiit in, Schiit out. (No offense to Schiit as a great brand) 🙂
excellent point here! lack of USB out is a dealbreaker for me! still, you can't beat the value!
that wasapi mpc indeed superior
i often using it for music player as well
Pro and Pro Plus have EQ: 10 band GEQ and 4 band PEQ. Wiim is working on a 10 band PEQ. Eversolo hasn't as yet fully developed the EQ in its A8 device but will eventually get there. For me the main added value in the Eversolo DMP-A6 lies in its interface, the 4 Tb internal SSD AND the fact that it supports Apple Music.
I agree. Both have their benefits and points of value.
I've watched quite a few of these Wiim reviews now, and you are the only reviewer to provide a definitive answer as to whether there is any difference between the digital output of the three models. Bravo, and thanks very much! 👍😁
So glad I could help! 🙂
I just recently posted a comment or inquiry on this. I did see with another reviewer that there are settings to adjust input in output between such settings 16/44 or 24/192 and I observed when a different reviewer open the app using the mini the default seem to have opened at 16/44 for digital output book. I think he change it up to 24/192 so if that’s the case, perhaps in this review that was a step not taken or the default between devices of different price points start at different default settings worth considering so I’m curious in
I believe there are input settings options that are similar to those mentioned here elsewhere in this other review or in probably to help information for the product
Also: Amazon for mini says :
Music input Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit
Music output Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit (Bit perfect output, i.e., output matches input source format)
All settings were identical across each device and they were all set for bit perfect output. If you scan through the comments here, you'll find multiple users who've heard the same as me with the Mini and Pro.
Anyone have an opinion on how the DAC in the WIIM Pro Plus would compare to the older Anthem MRX-720 AVR?
Not one that I can help with from experience so hopefully others will...
This is a solid review and I appreciate how you talk quickly and it’s all meat.
I'm glad you liked the content and delivery!
Interesting and thoughtful review.
While using the optical outputs allowed for initial comparison of the three devices, Toslink connections often suffer from high levels of jitter relative to a competent implementation of coaxial (spdif), so a comparison there may be interesting. Indeed, elsewhere, the sound quality of the digital output of the WiiM Pro Plus has been regarded as similar to that of the Pi2AES, albeit exhibiting slightly different tonality. Not a bad reference at all.
Additionally, digital output sound quality (for the Pro Plus, at least) appears to take a step up when powering via a good linear power supply - so there does seem to be a little more yet in the tank.
Rather looking forward to the Lumin comparison...
Thanks for your comment. If I still have the WiiMs when the D3 arrives, I'll see if I can compare the Pro vs the D3, but using a linear supply with the Pro.
This by far the best review of the three streamers! I went with the Pro since I own two dacs already. This will be my first streamer so I didn't want to spend to much because in a year there will be another with subwoofer out etc..
Nice choice! I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Glad I could be helpful!
thanks for this review! Read some ppl saying the A6 "streams better" and my doubt flags were going up, but reassuring to hear someone neutrally compare the two who I trust. This then leaves me with the question: does ANYTHING stream better than the Wiim Pro?
I've just received the Lumin D3 today (about $2,500 USD) and my VERY quick testing this afternoon would suggest that it might be a little better than the DMP-A6/A8 streaming stage (and therefore the WiiM Pro/Pro Plus too). It was a pretty subtle difference though so a much more thorough session is needed.
Finally, a review that compares the pure digital outputs using them as streamer only. Strange as it sounds for such a popular streamer, I could never find a clear answer on that until now. Thank you!
There are settings options for input and output quality ranging from 16/44 to 24/192 at least. I was just watching this review and did inquire with the channel owner whether or not that was considered because maybe the explanation of the difference in sound could have related to Different default settings for each device out-of-the-box, where if equalized the expected digital output similarities for bit perfect sound would be no different. And maybe that would still not be the case. I don’t really know but that’s why I asked the general owner whether that had been considered, because in another review somebody had shown The app in her face with the various selections, and when they first open the app to show during the video it was not set to the highest resolution, and that may have been out of the box or just through their normal use where it was arbitrarily at one setting that they later changed to another. Could explain why they were otherwise unexplained differences in digital outputs or maybe they were all the same set values and still sound differently. So I’ve inquired for clarification, because sometimes those subtle differences, if not deep into the Settings, as a user can result in unexplained outcomes.
Sorry that I missed your comment on the first time around, audiorick!
The differences in sound are due to the circuit quality within the different devices (power filtering, conversion from data to optical output, etc.) as all settings were identical.
When you test the Wiim Pro Plus against the Lumen, add the option of an sBooster LPS to the Wiim Pro Plus for comparison. Jeff
I've got a quality linear power supply here so I can do that. 🙂
How about using these with a linear or low noise power supply? Can you do a test and post the results for us?
I discussed exactly that here: th-cam.com/video/TZAAvLhpk8A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CxFnyb-BTZukwV3s (it was just a bit buried because most of the video focusses on the Lumin D3)
finally Someone testing out the digital out of those streamers! thank you!
Ive been using the iphone and a tablet for streaming throuh usb, are the wiim digital out much better? will i gain something?
Probably not
I haven't tested this so I'm not 100% sure. I'd suggest the Mini won't provide any benefit, but it's possible the Pro or Pro Plus might. I might test that in my upcoming Lumin D3 review.
I got the pro plus for my mom to bypass the Fives on board as a line out streamer for Google and Alexa while utilizing optical for her TV. With no external DAC to rely upon figured the AKM was worth the extra.
Yep. That was the right call. 🙂🙂
@PassionforSound if only she could figure out the app 😭 (she's 70 years young haha)
Haha. Yes, that's a challenge with everything going touch screen or app-based
Excellent review and really looking forward to the follow up video. I have a hard time believing a digital transport streamer costing 10x the cost of a wiim pro, using the same type of interconnect, can affect the “sound”, so very interesting to hear your take!!!
Just got the D3 in today and the difference (if any) is very subtle. I THINK there might be a slight improvement, but I'm withholding judgement for a thorough critical listening session. (This also shows how slight the difference might be...)
Lachlan, You’ve written that the WiiM units have to go back, but it would be really useful to have a comparison of the Pro/Pro Plus with an improved power supply (I’m using an iFi iPower) versus the much more expensive Lumin D3. Both with an external DAC of your choice. The iPower has delivered a worthwhile improvement in the sound from my WiiM Pro + Qutest + STAX headphones in my view - not a huge difference, but worthwhile.
I'll try to get that done today before I send everything back. 🙂
Thank you for the streaming to external dac comparisons. Everyone else says it doesn't matter as long as you're using an external dac. However in my very neutral and revealing system, I'm using a Wiim mini with an external dac. I knew that something was wrong with my system, but couldn't put my finger on it. Not until you said "thick sounding" that the light bulb came on. I have tinkered for months trying to get the details, transients, and subtleties, into the sound my system is capable of. I'm not happy with other reviewers stating that it's an optical 24/192 stream so it doesn't matter. I'm ordering a pro today. Thanks again
I'm glad I could help. I think you'll be really happy with the upgrade.
Drop back in and let us all know. 🙂
This is exactly where I have been! Too many moving pieces :D
I think you will be happy with the more expensive item because that’s how our brains deal with experiences that are the same but priced differently. However, if you arrange for a friend to run a randomised blind test you might enjoy finding that there is no actual difference, just as there is no difference when a photo is emailed to you from someone with an expensive or a cheap laptop - the photo file is the same.
That's not accurate and is oversimplifying/overgeneralising. Firstly, as I understand it, real time music playback (as opposed to downloading a file and then opening it) doesn't allow for the same error correction and (in the case of music) avoidance of noise introduced in the conversion process from data to digital audio output to analog audio output.
Then, as we get to price and expectations, people will prefer a more expensive product of both are the same and they've spent their own money on it, but they will also have higher expectations of it if it is meant to be better/different so this creates an offset of the initial bias you've raised. Then, there's the fact that this bias won't apply to people (like me) who are trying the device without any invested money and who have no incentive for one to be better than the other.
@@PassionforSound The price/ quality effect has been routinely demonstrated for years. Decades ago as part of undergraduate studies we replicated a standard experiment with wine where subjects were given 3 samples with no other information except retail price. Our results were the same as the original study. Almost all preferred the most or least expensive, not the middle. All except one expressed their opinion with conviction and could describe differences. The samples for each subject had actually been poured from the same bottle and there was no difference. If you arrange a proper blind test with another person randomising the playback then you will have a better idea if what you perceive is genuine.
That's a very interesting review. I agree that sonically, something is lacking with the Mini when used with the Wiim software. I decided to bypass the Wiim software and use Audirvana Studio via UPNP (in Kernel Mode) to drive the Mini. In that configuration, it sounds quite good. My hunch is that AS is handling most of the work and just sending a stream to the Mini. I was originally using AS to connect to my DAC via USB but found that having AS send data to the Mini via UPNP and then having the Mini drive the DAC optically sounded better. One more thing, for a few dollars it's possible to replace the Wiim power adapter with a higher-quality phone charger. Here in the US, it's easy to purchase an Apple phone charger for under $15.
That's very interesting about the software!
I'm hoping to test a higher quality power supply with the WiiMs vs the Lumin D3 in the next week or so (review not out until early January)
@@PassionforSound I did a power supply test on an iFi Signature (V1) DAC. I compared the iFi on using their supplied X-Power (beige) power supply to USB-supplied power from the PC. The difference was dramatic. With the iFi power supply, the highs were better, as were the sound stage and imaging. On USB power, imaging collapsed, and the highs lost most of their air.
@@PassionforSound The track I use to test the Mini is "Gray to Grand", by Hallie Loren on the After Dark album. What's interesting, is that I don't remember the Mini sounding this poor when I first got it. However, sometime over the summer, something changed (likely in the software). Based on your review, I was able to snag a Pro for $99 directly from Linkplay over the weekend. Toward the end of the month, I'll run a test where I have the Mini feed the DAC optically and the Pro feed the same DAC via coax. I'll let you know what I discover.
Please do!
What you said about the power supplies aligns with my experiences using cheap switch mode supplies versus a nice linear supply too.
Thanks a lot for all the information and testing you provided!
I am now pretty sure the Pro is the right WIFI streamer (for TIDAL) when wanting to connect the PRO to my (incoming) RME ADI-2 DAC FS (via S/PDIF or COAX) which I want to run as my headphone amp/dac, right?! :)
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but that all sounds like the right setup 🙂
@@PassionforSound Thanks for getting back to me :) I was looking for a way to connect my headphone amp/DAC wirelessly to TIDAL and think that the WiiM Pro will do the trick just fine. My NAD hifi amps (m10v2 & m33) just don't offer a dedicaded connection for headphone amps unfortunately and, more important, my listening position/relaxing chair is not directly close to my hifi amps so a cable connection would be the solution.
I have the Wiim Mini into an SMSL SU-1 external dac. I’m not sure I’d be able to hear the difference if I replaced the Mini with a Pro just for the upgraded gpu, especially since I’m running apple music via airplay2 which isn’t bitperfect lossless anyway.
Absolutely. Your setup is a perfect example where the Mini is all you need and if you're enjoying it, there's absolutely no reason to spend more money.
I went from a Wim pro to an Eversolo a8, although the a6 would be comparable in features. I have a large digital library and do not want to keep it on a NAS turned on all the time. Also I use KKBox as they have a massive variety of Asian songs. The Eversolo allows me to play my library directly from the player in an SSD and it also supports KKBox streaming, which was what I needed. The dac is also nice when I wish for a different signature. The Eversolo display is nice but I mostly only find it useful to observe channel imbalances. Whether the imbalance is coming from the source or the speaker itself. I use horn speakers so placement is very sensitive.
Overall both Eversolo and the wiim app have their quirks but they are both intuitive and stable. The Eversolo is a streamer, dac, music player and pre-amp built in one. If you're doing purely streaming and the Wiim supports the services, then the Wiim is best suited.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Would you mind testing the Wiim mini connected to a Schiit modi+ dac ? It seems I am not able to stream 192 kHz 24 bits using this setup. The modi+ dac should be able to take this resolution but it does not. The best I could do is 96 kHz 24 bits.
Is the Mini capped at 96kHz perhaps? I won't be able to test that, unfortunately because the WiiMs all have to go back.
Not sure if this helps: Using the WiiM app with the WiiM Pro, I can play 192 kHz/24-bit through the optical and coax outputs to my Schiit Modi+ (2023) DAC. Lower sampling rates could be another limitation of the slower processor in the mini 🤷♂.
@@NotElvis So this could be an optical cable defect on my side. An optical RX or TX defect in the modi or in the wiim mini. Or simply that the mini is not able to send 192 kHz (though I think it is marketed as such). The modi can definitively take 192 kHz. I guess trying the Wiim pro is the way to go. Especially after the review exposing some SQ defects on the Mini (a fact which I'm curious to test ;) ).
I'd be going for the WiiM Pro if that's an option. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the improved performance.
@@LeDabe192/24 works for my WIIM Mini setup: iPhone 13 WIIM app -> Mini optical out -> Emotiva XDA-1 DAC -> Schiit/Nitsch Piety headphone amp. Qobuz track was from Steely Dan Gaucho. Honestly, I’ve always shied away from using the Mini for critical listening without much analyzing “Why not?” I’m thinking Lachlan’s careful analysis shows why. My other sources deliver better into the DAC, evidently. But to your point: I’d agree swapping cables would be the least-hassle way to test if your Mini is itself at fault, because it SHOULD be capable of 192/24.
Could someone explain to me why would it be worth it for me to have Wiim streamer if I already have Chord Mojo 2 connected to iPad?
A streamer isn't really necessary in that situation. Sometimes, they can provide more freedom by not having your source be your computer, but that's about all.
@@PassionforSound thanks. And I actually ordered one just for this reason. I will not need to turn on my PC to play the music. Also, unlike with iPad, Wiim allows to control music playback remotely using my phone. One would think iPad should be easily controlled by iPhone but no, it is currently not possible.
Very good comparison. But why leave out the wiim amp?
Glad you liked it. The WiiM Amp wasn't released at the time
This review was unbelievably comprehensive and the only video I've found with the information I actually needed. My use case is adding Airplay 2 with an external dac. THANK YOU
My pleasure! I'm so glad I could help. 🙂
So impressed with your review, you answered all the question in my mind, plus more. Great Job!
So pleased I could help! 🙂
Curious if you're going to review the WiiM Ultra when it becomes available.
I'd definitely like to and will try to arrange a loaner from Radio Parts.
Great review! I have the WiiM Pro connected to an Ares 12th via optical into a McIntosh c50 Pre on to a McIntosh mc352 into a pair of Klipsch La Scala speakers. I have to say I can’t imagine a more expensive streamer doing a better job! I look forward to your review of the Lumin streamers!
Sounds like a lovely setup. I'm excited to give the Lumin D3 a thorough listen in the coming days...
Thanks so much. Just ordered a Wiim pro to upgrade from the mini based on your assessment of the streaming sound quality. Im streaming to geshelli j2 with akm 4499 and sparkos op amp. Looking forward to hearing the difference.
Thanks for sharing.
If your sending to a pair of speakers and can hear a noticeable difference let us know.
Thanks
I prefer coax over optical if you have the option.
I ordered the same J2 about 3 weeks ago. Excited to see what it does.
Excellent review…
I think you'll be impressed, @b30sail. Drop back in and let us know 🙂
Thanks for your review. I watched a few and yours was by far the best! Finally I know what i need/want to upgrade my system!
I'm so glad I've been able to help! Thanks for letting me know!
@@PassionforSoundquick question. If I use the opt out from my tv to my DAC/AMP, would the same apply in regard to the difference between the 2 wiim pro and the mini
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Can you elaborate?
@@PassionforSoundYou must forgive me as I am new to this very interesting scene. I suppose what I am trying to say is; does Toslink carry HD, and if so, could I just stream music from Amazon Music installed on my tv using the Toslink? From your video I understand that not all optical outputs are the same, but would you consider that solution or would you still go for a dedicated streamer such as the WiiM Pro? Thanks again!
No problems at all. It's actually quite a tricky question. Optical connections can normally carry hi-res audio up to 192kHz and 24-bit. Where this gets trickier though is in whether your TV is outputting a bit perfect stream from the optical or if it's processing it somehow first.
I'd say t he best bet is to give it a try and see if you enjoy what you hear. If it seems lacking in clarity then you might want to add a streamer like the WiiM Pro as you say.
Thank you, great review and it answers all my questions. Great job
That's great news! So glad I could help. 🙂
I have a Wiim Mini feeding a Schiit Modi 3+ into a 1983 Harman Kardon PM-650 amplifier and I am very satisfied with the sound. I bought my Mini for 79 dollars on Amazon on a lightning sale.
I'm glad you're enjoying your setup. 🙂
Huuuge thank you, especially for mini \ pro comparison. Priceless knowledge for caraudio, where I'm going to use it. Definitely will give Wiim pro a chance and removed mini from amzn basket
Oh wow! Interesting idea to use it in the car! Glad I could help.
I've used the WiiM pro for about a year. Recently, I've found myself listening less. A week ago, I switched out the WiiM for my older Yamaha WXC-50. I really wasn't expecting to hear a big difference, certainly not an improvement but, I don't think I'll be going back to the WiiM, at least for a while. Overall I just like the sound of the Yamaha a little better. A tiny bit more detail in all aspects. I should say I use both as a streamer only into a Bifrost2 DAC. Perhaps it's just my system or that the Yamaha is 3 times the price of the WiiM.
That makes sense and is a really nice example of the fact that the better the power supply, filtering and (maybe) clocking of the signal, the better the end result. Happy listening!
I'm looking forward to your comparison of the Wiim streamers to high end stand-alone streamers. Would also be interested to have you compare Wiim streamers to the Ifi Zen. Thanks for doing reviews that focus on sound!
Also interested in a comparison with the Zen Stream.
I switched from an Ifi Zen Stream to a Wiim Pro about 8 months ago and overall I am happier with the Wiim Pro. I find it to be more stable and the Software is much better. And in Canada the Wiim Pro is less than half the price of the Zen Stream.
I ran both streamers into a Denafrips Ares II Dac, and would use Tidal Connect and Qobuz through BubbleUPNP. The Zen Stream was always flaky with Tidal Connect. It would just randomly disconnect from it in between songs. This would occur when it was it connected to my network either wirelessly or via RJ45 cable so I don't think it was a network issue. Never have any problems with the Wiim Pro though. I also had to -re-setup the Zen Stream occassionally when I was running it on the wireless network. For some reason it would just lose it's settings. And the setup software for it isn't great.
I couldn't notice a difference in audio quality between the two when connecting via SPDIF to the DAC. The main pros of the Ifi Zen for me was the USB output, USB port to plug in a flashdrive or NAS, and it's DSD support, but overall for everyday use I would still choose the Wiim Pro for it's Software, stability and ease of use.
@@mattsev9134 Thank you for sharing your experience. Very helpful.
@mattsev9134 I have the same setup as you and agree with Zen stream has connection issues but I think that the Zen provides a much better audio experience. I am running the Plus with a Allo Nirvana and the Zen with a ifi ipower 15v. I will try the Plus one more time.
Unfortunately, the local distributor has blocked multiple attempts by iFi to get products to me for review. I'd love to compare the Zen Stream, but it's unlikely at this point. 😞
Which is the best sound quality - Qobuz played through it's Wiim app or Qobuz from it's own app via Wiim's inbuilt Chromecast?
I've not tested this, but I suspect that the WiiM app MIGHT be the better option. Proprietary systems like Apple Airplay and therefore maybe Chromecast can sometimes damage the quality, but maybe test for yourself and see what you hear.
The Pro Plus also comes with a remote - worth a mention!
Yes. That was an oversight on my part. Sorry about that.
Great video, Lachlan. I very much look forward to your comparison with the Lumin. I have the Pro and also an Auralic Aries G2 streamer. My feeling is you may find that the difference is scaleability. A front end like the G2 which is a true audiophile component will continue to provide better SQ as your system improves, whereas there will be a point where the Wiim runs out of steam. I use my Wiim as a Roon endpoint connected to a Topping E50 DAC because it sounds much better to my ears than the DAC and streamer in my Denon X6500H AV receiver, but in my main system the advantages of the Aries G2 (admittedly with a Terminator Plus DAC). are apparent. The wiim connected to the T+ is clearly a bottleneck to SQ.
I briefly tried the D3 when it arrived today and I think you might be right. I'm not 100% convinced yet, but I think there was a certain something to the sound of the D3 vs the DMP-A8 streaming stage. I think it brought some extra refinement and preserve to the sound. I'm looking forward to some thorough critical listening.
I think I’ve improved the sound from my WiiM Pro + Qutest by replacing the WiiM’s wall wart with an iFi iPower.
That would make sense to me. I'll quickly test the WiiMs with a better power source before returning them.
It won't. Just plug it into the wall.
It did
Great production values. Sadly, I lack audiophile eardrums.
So long as you can enjoy music - that's the bit that matters. 🙂
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I am currently using Volumio with Tidal Connect. I am less than impressed with the stability and am considering a WiiM. Do I need Tidal Connect if I have a WiiM? If not, how is the WiiM's Tidal interface? Its sound quality? (I'll be running it into an Orchard DAC.) Thanks.
The WiiM app is excellent so I think you'll be very happy from that perspective. The sound quality from the WiiM Pro is very good, but without knowing what you're coming from, I can't say how it will compare. Was it a Volumio streamer or something else running the Volumio app?
I have an Orchard Audio PecanPi streamer-DAC. Orchard recommended Volumio for their Pi's Raspberry-based steamer. So that's what I went with. I'm not thrilled with Volumio. I would prefer a more polished app. But it's Tidal Connect that led me to post here. It jacked its volume to 100% without my input when I switched back to it from another app. That appears to have damaged the woofer on my for40-year old a/d/s L880s.
And so I'm looking at other options.
Sorry to hear about that! I don't know the PecanPi, but it's probably going to be similar to the WiiM Pro in terms of sound quality. The WiiM app is far more stable than Etsy you've described.
@@PassionforSound The PecanPi is a fantastic DAC. It's an American made direct to consumer device that punches far above its weight. (Remarkable sound!) But I've given up on Volumio. It and Tidal Connect aren't even talking to each other tonight. (Not the first time.) So I ordered a WiiM Pro not 15 minutes ago. I'll feed it to the PP DAC.
@@PassionforSound The WiiM isn't in the same league as the PecanPi. It's DAC extraordinary. But with its RaspberryPi based streamer relying on Volumio or Roon (which I refuse to pay that much for) it has led me to the WiiM. So far, so good.
It's a pity you didn't compare them with LPS. I have Pro and Pro+, I noticed a positive difference with LPS, a more pleasant, more musical sound. Maybe next time, when comparing with Lumin D3? just a small proposition $300 [Pro with LPS] Vs $3000 streamer.
Yes, I might add a power supply for the Lumin D3 review (if I haven't sent back the WiiMs before then). I didn't add additional power supplies for this video because I didn't want to overcomplicating things. 🙂
I want to play audio through my PC speakers and the 2.0 speakers in my kitchen at the same time. Can you do something like that with these devices?
Absolutely (sort of). If you have an aux input on your PC speakers, you can feed the output of a WiiM into those and you can link multiple WiiMs together so you get the exact same audio through multiple devices, just like you want.
Would be great if you compared the best value pure streamers that would be used with external dacs
I'll definitely do that if I get the chance to get my hands on them 🙂
Saving for the Wiim pro now. Appreciate the thorough review.
My pleasure! Enjoy your Pro. Nice choice!
An external power supply, such as the Allo Nirvana, greatly improves the sound quality of the Pro Plus.
I can imagine that. The power supply and the internal power filtering with the WiiMs are both going to be fairly basic given the price.
Did you find a difference between using the pre-amp inside the devices, vs using a fixed volume level output?
I actually didn't test that - sorry
@@PassionforSound the reason for asking is I have a bluesound node n130 and if using the built in pre-amp it sounds great, but as soon as you use optical and change it to fixed line level output, is just sucks all the life out of it, sounds dead by comparison, and I wondered if this was a problem all streamers have or if there’s hope for another.
Wow. That's very curious. Normally it goes the other way around. So were you running a line output with preamp/variable volume and then swapped to running optical to an external DAC?
@@PassionforSound that’s right, and so going optical out from the bluesound right into the Dac sounds crap to be blunt, but the exact same Spotify feed, same song, going through the audio bridge and coming from the MacBook as a transport instead of the bluesound sounds magical. The difference is staggering, and it’s not just a wee bit, and it’s not as if I’m hearing things, this is night and day. Also tried it going into different dacs. It’s a weird one, and made me wonder what the point was of buying one, because I was assured that it would sound much better than the MacBook as a transport; and I can assure you and everyone else reading this, it does not. Any ideas Lachlan?
It sounds like maybe the Node has a crappy optical output or an excellent DAC compared to the others you're using. It's hard to be certain.
My WiiM Pro have just arrived today. Great review Lachlan! There is an issue with Chromecast. It sounds horribly bloated in comparison to using the app within WiiM pro.
I wouldn't be surprised if Chromecast isn't providing a bit perfect stream (the same is true with Apple Airplay)
@PassionforSound Casting it via Amazon Alexa is bit perfect, and that is what I now use. The remote Alexa voice works well. Amazing unit for the price paid.
That's great news. Glad you're enjoying it
I did not hear you mention that they all can stream from internal storage on your phone, etc. or from a server. That said, the app is far from optimal but it, mostly, does the job.
That's the DLNA part (unless I'm missing something else). My tends to always be more on the sound quality rather than an exhaustive features discussion.
Have tidal and atmos AVR Will wiim or pro out put atmos audio
I don't believe so. They're designed for regular 2-channel stereo only
@@PassionforSound that sad
The other day I went to your link where you’re looking for recommendations. I’m sorry that I don’t really want to go through all the steps. Here’s a good sound track CD “Patriot Games” The movie with Harrison Ford. Probably made over 20 years ago.
Thanks for sharing. If you do see a future one of those and want to contribute, it's only four questions and you can ignore most of them if you have nothing to add for them. 🙂
@@PassionforSound and I couldn't remember the name of the movie even though I have the CD. By chance I saw it on Prime while searching. Thanks for your kind words.
Adding a duplicate comment outside of the thread above
So I hooked up the wiim pro and am not in love. I may have an issue. It is definitely more clear and precise. The problem is the highs from my tweeter though very very clear are also a bit thin and harsh, almost sibilent. With the mini the sound is smooth and pleasant. I don't know if I have a problem with the new streamer, or if the new streamer is pointing out flaws with my speakers that were not noticeable before.
For reference, my system after the wiim is a Geshelli j2s 4499/sparkos, Rotel A11 Tribute, Wharfedale Evo 4.1, SVS Micro.
Thoughts?
I'll answer here too for others who might not read the longer thread.
This sounds like the Mini's smoothness was masking an issue with your system. It's very hard to say where the problem specifically lies though. Could be anything from the speakers to the interconnects to the room, etc.
Finally someone made things clear, especially for people already owning a hi-quality DAC.
I'm glad I could help!
You Nail it! This is what we are expecting. Please compare the two digital outputs next, wich is better. Thanks!!!!!
The coax out is best forever
Both the same. You would not hear the difference.
Unfortunately, the question of which output is best also brings into question the cables used and the device it's feeding into. In reality, you'll rarely find a big enough difference between optical and coaxial to make enough difference to worry about for regular use. I.e. you might hear a difference when directly comparing, but wouldn't pick the difference if you just walked into the room and heard either without the direct comparison
What output did you use when comparing the Wiim Mini with the Pro, both optical or the Pro on coax out?
I was using optical for all tests.
I only see two possibilities then. Either some of the settings were wrong or the Wiim mini is not able to send bit perfect as claimed by the manufacturer.@@PassionforSound
Third option is that the power filtering isn't as good in the Mini and power supply noise is creating issues with the digital signal between when it arrives via WiFi and exits via optical. There's conversion to be done so there's an opportunity for issues there.
I’m considering the new WIIM amp. But probably wait until it’s on sale.
I'll be getting that in for review soon so might be able to help with your decision. 🙂
@@PassionforSound Awesome, thanks
Thank you. Best Wiim review I'v come across this far. Exactly answering the questions I had. Cheers.
So glad I could help!
Went with just the WiiM Pro since using my Topping D90, couldn't justify the Plus for this reason.
Yep. Good choice!
Excellent in-depth review! Thank you
My pleasure! 🙂🙂
Do they work with vinyl?
If you want to convert analog to digital then back to analog again
Yes. As crazyprayingmantis said, you can fee an analog input into them (i.e. from vinyl) but it will be digitised to allow volume control.