One thing I like about this episode is that they were totally upfront about their feelings. Roxy admits what she did was wrong, that she was being selfish, and she doesn’t try to justify it. Mushoku tensei has some of the realest character writing.
@@higashikatajosuke98 because it is obviously in part her trying to shift the blame completely to herself. Yes she saw her chance and took it, yes she might just wanted to find an excuse to do what she wanted to do, but at the end of the day, she did the right thing, Rudeus needed that help. It is just a "bad" thing if you see it from a deontologist perspective where actions are bad because they are bad. If you analyze it using a consequentialist perspective, the did the action that brought the best outcome.
@@higashikatajosuke98 Roxy is also taking the guilt so that she can deflect any feelings she or Rudy might have to allow her to "step aside" because shes made her own assumptions about what the outcome will be. She wanted to save Rudeus and then take the fall for her own actions. However, instead Rudy decides to open up and try to "make them both happy" as he said.
@@higashikatajosuke98 It shows that Roxy is trying to take all the blame, despite it was her who offered the hand and companionship to pull him from his grief. Roxy is trying to justify to Rudy that her actions are "taking advantage of him" when in reality she was trying to help Rudy.
@@higashikatajosuke98 Ehh, I feel that the vast majority of the "outrage" from this episode is aimed at Rudy and not Roxy. It's "Rudeus who cheated / is a dirtbag / promised he would be faithful", etc, when the truth is that yes, Rudeus did cheat... *but* ... and it's a big effing B-U-T.
"I am also aware that is me putting myself and preconceptions of me as an individual onto a character that is not me" so refreshing to have people that can think about thinking.
Thank you Anna, your view on this polygamy thing is perfect. Sure, we can be pissed at the idea, but they can do what they want as long as all of them are consenting.
This has been by far a top 3 reaction to this episode out of the countless ones already out there. Psyculturists and Anime Date Night are the other 2. It takes serious emotional intelligence to truly understand and appreciate the depth of what’s actually going on in this episode.
Even if the anime did things differently than the novel, i think the studio did a great job with the time they had. It still managed to transmit the same feelings that i felt when i read this chapter in the novel. Also kinda glad they skipped a certain part of the conversation Elinalise had with Rudy, it made her look really manipulative in the novels
As a non novel reader it felt pretty rushed to me tbh. Just comparatively to Eris who had a whole season of buildup, then sylphie who had a whole half season (which I admittedly criticized for being to slow, but still when the time came I felt fulfilled bc there was proper buildup). Even tho I know the idea is that Rudy and Roxy already knew each other, their connection was never as deep as the other 2 girls. So yea we all expected this but imo it happened way too quickly where I just dont feel any empathy or connection to Roxy whatsoever. She still feels like an old side character to me and I feel they could have at least given 1 full episode for Rudy to wallow in his sorrows, and then maybe do this next episode. Also just to clarify I don't have any problem with polygamy and actually enjoy the show challenging social constructions. In regards to skipping the Elinalise conversation, I actually would have loved that sure maybe it's manipulative but that's actually real and authentic which I would prefer over making the anime more "friendly". I want to see the ugly sides, that's part of the reason I fell in love with Mushoku in the first place, it felt different than any other show and pulled me in. But season 2, while still good, has felt like it's slowly creeping closer to a generic shounen harem isekai. Which scares me bc I genuinely LOVE this series. I hope it's maybe just a long setup for an epic season 3
@@QMS9224I get that you would feel that way, Roxy's impact could seem minimal from a viewers perspective, but to Rudeus it was huge. They lived together for a few years when he was a child, studying and learning about each other every single day. She "cured" his fear of going outside the house, a huge issue for Rudeus so far as to establish a religion around Roxy and see her as a God (it could be seen as a recurrent gag but for him the impact was that big), and we got a few episodes since rescuing her from the labyrinth of bonding again (skipped many of those moments in the anime). I agree this could have been better paced, but I don't think Roxy is a stranger or had not as much time with Rudeus as the other girls
@@QMS9224 The biggest difference I see with this depression is that after Eris he was entirely alone, no family, no friends, no one that loved him to even try to help him. Even after finding out about his ED and burning the bridge with Sara, he had Soldat and his group to lean on. So I can buy into the "quicker" recovery, though the travel across the desert to the teleporter circle would take them atleast a month, and we see in the montage he's still heavily leaning on Roxy to move forward.
Rudy was way more desperate in the novel, I feel like they should have had him looking like a hobo covered in flies, that would have reversed everyone's opinion of the situation, because if Rudy was outwardly disgusting then Roxy's act would actually be seen as selfless because Rudy was practically at death's door.
24:00 My personal take is Elinalise is still much more attached to Roxy than she is Sylphy, who Elinalise had effectively no contact with before the wedding, so it makes sense that Elinalise would strongly favor what is good for Roxy over what is good for Sylphy.
@@budthecyborg4575she also seem to be generally more mature than all of em. Taking the elder stance and considers everyone's well being in the long run. Sacrificing her own feelings regarding her grandchild. Seeing Paul growth even when he ends up w 2 wife also take a part in it i think
@@budthecyborg4575Yes but Elinalise didn't say "take Roxy as your wife, even if Sylphie leaves you". She is only able to say all that because she is putting faith into Rudy being able to love them both equally and that Sylphie wouldn't be opposed to another wife because she doesn't follow Millis. If the conditions weren't so favourable, I'm not so certain she'd still endorse it.
Its quite amazing how you guys can get most of the small cues of the series even when they skip a lot of things from the novel. I was curious to see how Ben would react since he was so sure Rudeus would NEVER go for Roxy haha XD.
I love your view regarding Mushoku the most. Thank You for you beautiful reactions❤❤... Specifically your end discussion is so great.I wish you people were a LN reader because there's a lot of context missing but you guys reached a conclusion almost the same as me. Great reaction as always..
Some people really forget the old times, and mad about this episode religion and time really changes people. at the end of the day this is an anime and I love and appreciate the story telling~
Just wanted to point out the callbacks that this show likes so much. The "you'll have to ask me again later" obviously parallels when Rudeus asks Roxy the same thing in season 1 and she tells him to ask again in a decade. The last episode and this episode obviously corresponds to the corresponding episodes in season 1 cour 2, the fight episode followed by the romantic episode, with Rudeus broken and Roxy even straddled Rudeus like Eris did. I feel like the message of this episode ultimately was what Roxy said about needing to cherish the future and your current family. The message is framed by a brutal world where people die in combat. So it's almost like you need to fight "fucked" with "fucked", like, "both my parents are incapacitated, well screw this, I'm taking a second wife". Being greedy, not missing any opportunities, because in a brutal world you have to take everything you can. also lol @ Anna's "good ending" to Mushoku Tensei. We're going to need one of those Fate cooking series for the MT characters.
18:15 As a polyamourous person, Mushoku Tensei hit different for ne. I actually HATE most "harem" animes, full of fake relationships, pervy moments treated like affronts, and usually none of the possible partners getting a chance to express their feelings. So, when I see actual loving, concentual, joyous unions of more than two people, it's beautiful and romantic, and relatable. Even most other animes that contain poly-type relationships do it for comedic value, i.e., 100 Girlfriends, Isekai Maou, Date A Live, Kanojo na Kanojo (though none of those loving parnters are just for giggles. Rudeus is damn serious about his feelings and his behavior towards whomever loves him. I mean, Sylphy called it when she got with Rudi, saying she understood if(when) he brought home another woman. Goddess bless, just seeing Roxy again was enough hype for me for seqson 2!
one thing that is mentioned in this episode and that is taken up much later is that Rudy sees himself as an impostor, even though he wants to take advantage of that second chance, he does not stop thinking that he took away someone's opportunity to live.
Having read some untranslated parts of the Roxy manga... Paul mentioned during the planning of Rudeus' fifth birthday party that he was born blue and he wasn't breathing.
You guys are the most interesting and intelligent reactors on youtube. The only one that can rival you are Wes and Steph. Eager to see their take on this episode!!!
Great video. 😊 18:20 Is a great polygamy introduction. The two woman have a deep connection with him, is not something for the luxury or momentary passion. Is a little harder relationship to manage, but is possible. 28:40 Yes, that's what make me like so much Mushoku. The complex conflicts dealing with reincarnation appears, when in most of stories play no role (that I have read/seen at least). 35:40 Zenith state is so hard to see.
The pacing in the anime is too rushed. Rudy was actually so devastated that he locked himself up for nearly a month before being comforted by his teacher during his most vulnerable moment, which helped him pull himself together.
You're missing the fact that Norn was mad at Rudeus and complained to Ruijerd "He's with a different woman" because the first time she saw him was with Eris. So definitely she will not acept this poligamy
If you think about it, the only reason Sylphy was the first to reunite with Rudeus instead of Roxy is because the latter chose to accompany Paul on the search for Zennith while sending Elinalise to find Rudeus in her place. In other words, Roxy nearly lost her shot at realizing the love of her dreams, all because she prioritized the wellbeing of her partner's family over her own desire to see him again. Knowing that, I'm glad she isn't being lambasted as a homewrecker and is instead being given a chance to try and work something out. It'd just be too pitiful otherwise.
👆👍She even wrote a whole textbook on her native tongue just because Rudy expressed interest, and had difficulty learning it, which is kind of insane if you think about it. How many hours would it take to just DO that? Then of course, she gave years of her life searching for his family, without even asking for compensation. She wasn't attracted until meeting him again at the labyrinth, but she clearly did love Rudeus/the Greyrats dearly. Given that Rudy's loved her for so long, to cast Roxy aside without even trying to see if things could work would be very harsh. All for values that nobody there expects him to hold cause he doesn't follow the one faith/ideology in their world that would demand he reject her in this situation.
btw the part where Rudy is saying he hasn't changed at all etc is actually the first time Rudy actually tells someone he is reincarnated. the episode didn't make it as clear but that's what has basically happened there and Roxy's answer to Rudy when he asks her what he should do now when she says you should cherish the family you have left etc it was all with that context
I love the discussion, this is a cool react video👍 as a original source reader, this address a lot of the problem that is mention in the LN, ofc since its an anime they had to skipped out a lot of context and content. Fun fact: During the discussion between Elinalise and Rudeus, Elinalise threatened Rudeus into marrying Roxy because Roxy got "pregnant". Basically, "take responsibility" type stuff.
Wait, I just realized they left out one of the most important parts of this scene. In the books, Rudy told her about his past life. He just told it as a story and didn't tell, it's about him.
I really wish they kept that part. It cemented the fact he was not only mourning Paul’s death and Zenith’s condition in this world, but he was finally mourning his previous parents deaths as well. It was that facet of this moment that really sold this scene to me.
@@jeremyyang3212 That he was mourning his previous parents deaths was still made clear I think. At least that's what they likely had in mind with the beginning. So the only thing that's really missing is that Roxy might know now.
@@porky1118 I get that was what they implied with the start, I just felt that it was Rudy putting it into words that lead to Roxy giving him her answer to “treasure the family that remains” rather than just him asking her what he should do now.
Elinalise is like: "As a person, who is on the receiving end of the Millis way of doing things, and can appreciate how nice it feels to be the single target of someone's affections, and as the grandmother of the person you are married to -- I still say it's perfectly alright if you take on another wife. I love my granddaughter, but I also love my good friend with whom I've travelled the world searching for you. I would think I've come to know you in the past couple years, but in case you need to hear it: as Paul's son, you're at least a good enough man to make multiple wives happy."
The start of this episode hit me hard, even as a reader. You just know its going to be a real one when they cold open with a flashback and credits to skip the OP that s2 has made habitual at this point.
it also flew over my head that paul married lilia but thinking back to the way rudy married sylphy its more like zenith married lilia into the family saying "no you stay here and live with us"
iirc in the LN Roxy didn't wanna do it with Rudy at first but Elinalese and Geese where the ones who encouraged her to do that, opposite to what happened in the Anime.
That's one interpretation of it. The text itself had them spitball ideas as to how to get him on his feet again. Taking him to a brothel is the go-to solution for adventurers, but they recognized he wouldn't go for any random girl there. Elinalise adamantly refused to do it, even though she's an expert at soothing men's heartache. Suggesting Lilia was immediately shot down. They concluded he'd get on his feet on his own eventually.
I love every characters in Mushoku Tensei. Unfortunately, The anime is a bit too concise. The anime has cut out some important stories and didn't do it as well as the light novel. Many people may not understand this ep. I've read the light novel of this anime, everything has a good reason.
they cut out so so so so soo much from the light novel as compared to this episode and I feel including all that would have made it a million times better. There is 10x more Rudeus introspection, thinking about his past life, equation with paul and everything. there is a whole section of elinalise roxy and geese discussing how to help rudy and them suggesting sex would help but maybe take him to a brothel since elinalise can't help and finally Roxy deciding to do it herself. also the internal conflict in Roxy when then discuss taking Rudy to a brothel. Then there is an bunch that was skipped from Rudy's talks with elinalise as well as Roxy and with full context it doesn't even need the milis faith comparison to make anyone understand that this isn't blasphemy or anything haha. also a HUUUUGE development which they didn't mention as well which I think they will later, at least I hope.
1 thing im really scared is now Rudy got to tell about Paul death to Norn and Aisha. I dont to see how they gonna react to his death and to the state of Zenith now
Interesting fact the anime cut how a majority of the chapter's discussion between Roxy and Elenise and also there was a scene left out that was supposed to happen before the start of the episode. There was a huge discussion how Rudy had not been eating for a week and they were all discussing how to lift Rudy's spirits again. Geusse suggested that someone beds Rudy to give him a euphoria to bring back his will to live and suggests Elenise to do it which she refuses. This results in Roxy thinking about approaching Rudy's room. Also a lot of other things were changed as well from the source material. In the Light Novel, Roxy was not the one who pushed Rudeus down. It was Roxy who got up first to leave and it was Rudeus who pushed Roxy down. To which Roxy then says "it's throw all your stress at me. Rudeus ended up being quite rough. Rifujin the author was very worried about how this episode was going to turn out and be perceived by the pubic. Another thing is Elenise also scares Rudy into trying to marry Roxy by lying to him that he might have gotten Roxy pregnant. One of the big changes which I believe really should not have been cut was that Rudeus and Roxy when they wake up the next morning have a little pillow talk, a philosophical discussion about reincarnation where Rudy all but reveals he is a reincarnated person.
I'd say monogamy is a standard mainly in the Western sphere because Christianity emphasize monogamy. Other parts of the world, like places around the continent of Asia, still practice cultural polygamy today. The reports are generally not in English though, so it is scarcely available for English readers. And even then, only entertaining drama make it to headlines, so a majority of poly families still fall under the radar, (which is perfectly appropriate).
Crazy thing is monogamy even throughout European history has only been a very loose standard (e.g. Henry the 8th) and in modern times chastity is totally non-existent and adultery is rampant, but the facade of monogamy is still upheld by the legal system.
Let's ignore my feelings and think about this. In this world, people die very easily. In this world, polygamy is a very efficient system for people who cannot have many children at once. The Milis religion is thought to have taken root in areas that are somewhat stable even in such a world.
dunno if you two watch cut content from this stuff but for this episode so much was removed/ changed which better leads to/ explains why things go the way they do. anime still did a great job of it but almost a whole episode could have happened between last episode and the start of this one
the anime skipped when Rudeus mentions that Zenith made Paul take Lilia as a second wife 33:22 Paul trained with Lilia in the Dojo owned by her father, Paul was mistreated there for being too good while also not appreciating Lilia as everyone else treated her like a princess, so Paul raped Lilia (even though she was the one who treated him well) to get back at the other students and the flee the dojo. This Ruined Lilia's life as she couldn't trust men anymore even though her job was basically marry with whoever would become the next dojo leader, her father opted to send her to work on the palace harem where she probably got raped again by the crazy Asuran nobles to the point that she remembers Paul raping her as a "good memory" as in "I'm glad that at least it was him who took my first time". Lilia protected baby Ariel from assasins but got permanently injured (she currently can't even run properly for example) so she got fired, that's when she got hired by Paul, she planned to use rape incident to blackmail him if needed but it wasn't needed
Paul didn't violate her out of the blue. Paul's freedom was taken away from him, essentially being forced to stay at the dojo by appealing to his own sense of competition and honor. Lilia's mother blamed him for his husband not paying as much attention to her anymore, how he doesn't do anything for the house he's staying at, and how he's a negative influence on Lilia. Lilia's father wanted Paul to become his successor and take Lilia as his wife, passing down his knowledge in the Water God Style to him. His former classmate, the Water God at the time, took personal interest in training Paul, so when Paul finally got the upper hand in the duel score against Lilia's father, Reida said he's taking Paul with her to train, while Lilia's father told Paul of his own plans. Not to mention the students all hated him and his misbehavior. So he was getting bottles hurled at him, the masters kicked his ass day in and day out, the students all ganged up on him... He wanted out. And since his sword was kept in Lilia's room (taken from the other students who'd hidden it away), he decided to vent all his anger and frustration out on Lilia while on the way out. The scene in the transcript (machine-translated): Lilia: hn...W-what do you think you’re doing? Get away from me...! I’ll scream- [Before she could finish her pleading, he covered her mouth with his hand. With his free hand, he grabbed Lilia’s wrists and held them over her head.] Paul: I’ll tell you something for future reference, in a situation where you have to scream, you shouldn’t loudly say you’re going to scream. Lilia: !! Mnh-mnh! Mnnnh!! Paul: ...you know, I hate troublesome things. But I’ve had to put up with a lot, haven’t I? I was dragged to the dojo, forced to participate in training from sunrise to sunset, and had to deal with those weak but prideful assholes... I’ve had to endure being beaten up by too strong opponents, and I’ve had to bear with the abuse of a woman who tries to get closer to her husband... [Just remembering all this made him angry. Paul looked down at Lilia in frustration.] Paul: I’ve had enough of it all, okay? I’m getting out of here. But before I do, I’m going to vent all my irritations. [Lilia probably realized what he was going to do to her. She tried to resist by thrashing her body, but...] Paul: You can’t beat me with force. Lilia: !! Paul: Well, let’s enjoy each other’s company. I hear I’m pretty good at it. [As if to relieve his pent-up frustration, Paul took Lilia’s virginity that night. A few hours later...] [Just before dawn-. Paul woke up and saw Lilia sleeping next to him. He thought back to his actions last night and broke out in a cold sweat.] Paul: (I fucked up...) (...halfway through, Lilia started getting into it, so that means it was consensual... doesn’t it!?) [Flute would definitely be fuming if she found out that I had messed with Lilia.] Paul: (As expected, Augusta would be pissed... or maybe he’ll force me to take responsibility and marry her...?) I’m getting the hell out of here.
Roxy: I said I was going to get with someone who saved me in a Dungeon, and I'm gonna do it! "Sorry Sylphy, your Prince is exploring another dungeon tonight"
20:52 not ironically, literally in season 1 ep 4 they already gave a glimpse of what could happen in this world, of course in the anime it wasn't very elaborated yet how idiosyncrasies worked in this different world, although they already mentioned Millis's faith.
>Like father like son There is one clear distinction though, Paul had no intention of consoling Zenith (she is a Millis worshipper after all) originally before the cheating was revealed, whereas Rudy wanted to respect his wife and gain consent from both parties before taking the relationship further.
"respect his wife" haha, no. he wanted to respect his wife in the novel where, after all Elinalise's persuasion, he still decided to be faithful to Sylphy, which is why Elinalise had to lie to him about Roxy's pregnancy. here Rudeus doesn’t care about Sylphy’s feelings or his promises
let me point this out. The important psychological portrayal, the discussion between Geese and Elinalise was lost, which is too essential for the depth of this plot. Rudy's sadness and his regret for not properly honoring his parents in this life and past lives were not expressed. Elinalise's inner conflict (her love for her granddaughter and her friendship with Roxy) was also not expressed. Now it seems that Roxy is just an opportunistic third wheel, and Elinalise is inexplicably sabotaging her own granddaughter, which is very different from the novel. it didn’t show the inner conflict Elinalise was having. Geese asked Elinalise to have sex with Rudy because he thought that this 'activity' was how a man got comfort. And Elinalise did that in the past. (She was the one who told Geese that was how a man got comfort.) However, Elinalise was not into that this time because she didn't want to betray her granddaughter and Cliff. "After" hearing this, Roxy decided to help Rudy herself. She didn't come up with the idea to have sex with Rudy. Geese did. However, in this version Roxy became the one who immediately thought of having sex with Rudy. Who the fk would instantly think of using vagina to heal a man? After, Elinalise found out Roxy and Rudy were having sex. She thought a lot and came up with the idea that "I met Roxy first. Then, I reunited with my granddaughter. I love them both so I have to be that guy to suggest Rudy to marry Roxy." However, in this version, Elinalise ran straight to the conclusion that Rudy could fairly love Sylvie and Roxy at the same time because he was Paul's son. Did the anime show this depth? No, it didn't. Did it show the sadness of Rudy and Roxy's selfish and selfless actions? Yes, it did. So, it is a 5/10 because it only did half the job. The anime was doing so good in the season but suddenly this come up. It is hard to not feel angry about that. I strongly suggest that this part must be supplemented by reading the novel. I like Roxy in the light novel but given how the animator presented Roxy, she is a opportunistic third wheel. They are different character now. And that's not only my point of view. Most people out there are now hating Roxy because of this episode. Changing the plot for the board audience? Because there are not enough time? Not an excuse.
@@TheRoleplayer40k What's the harm in them knowing where it is? They're all, for the most part, family or very close friends of Rudy and Elinalise who wouldn't do anything malicious. Well, aside from [spoiler] but we don't know about them yet.
@@Ichigoku15 If they gossip about it (like when drunk) and the government finds out, it will be destroyed (teleporters are illegal). and if its destroyed it will inconvience Orstead a lot, who will come looking for whoever destroyed it, and perhaps lead him back to Rudy and his family. Rudy would like to avoid annoying Orstead (or revealing that Nanahoshi told him about it without asking permission) so is keeping its location a secret The more people that know a secret the greater the odds it will get out by accident So best to keep its location a secret for just him and Ellis
20:10 Btw, relevant to what the gentleman is talking about, this Short is by a channel that ALWAYS does Mushoku Tensei "Fun Facts. This Short gives a damn good gist of what was changed about Roxy and Rudi's behavior in this episode. Popped up just when I was so irritated that great reqcters like this couple are getting a hella different take of everything. th-cam.com/users/shorts814i69DNkzU?si=SXpnWTMJQyzYceZJ
Shout out to studio Bind for full on skipping the most important conversation of the series up until this point (the one that happens between Rudy and Roxy) odd choice but okay?
Polygamy is commonplace in this world, and also Rudy doesn’t have multiple wives for the status or clout, he genuinely loves all of them. He will also ask Sylphie for permission before making things official with Roxy To the people getting mad at this, there is actually polygamy in the world where the husband treats the wives like actual trophies/servants. Rudy marries these girls because they are the loves of his life
18:30 Ana it is more than nad. Since distribution of sexes is on average 50:50 the polygamy means incelifocation of male part of society because in polygamous countries only the richest and high class get atractive enough to get more than one wife.
It might be harmless on individual level but on societal it's very harmfull. There is a reason that 9 out of 10 most dangerous countries to be in are polygamist.
Unfortunately, the anime cut a lot of things from the original, there are many parts that were completely irrelevant in the anime, apart from the fact that rudeus practically reveals to Roxy that he is reincarnated, among other things.
The crazy thing about all the backlash against Rudy/Roxy is almost everyone throwing criticism has already slept around in casual relationships for most of their adult life. American culture today is saturated with moral degeneracy to the point where adultery is now effectively a right of passage, but these are the same people quickest to throw Rudy under the bus. I don't want Rudy defended, I just want people to have some self awareness.
I love the comment "Didn't Paul have a history with Lilia like dating a relationship prior to Zenith.... " Answer: Yes but it's not what your thinking... lets move on! lol Change the subject.
I thought the ep was very good, they screwed up, both Roxy and Rudy, they know that, but it's also a fact they love each other, they know they made a mistake of doing it before Sylphy knew and they will wait to see if she approves before becoming a couple, and that was it, right? I felt bad seeing Roxy in that state, knowing she messed up and having the person she fell in love be an "Impossible love" for her, fortunatelly the GOAT Elinalise helped, for real, i really grew to love Elinalise as a character, i love her true friendship with Rudy
The more I see this episode, the more disappointed I get at the important details cut or changed. It changes this whole trip back all together, and mischaraterizes both Rudi and Roxy. Also, cutting Elinalise and Geese talking to Roxy about "a man bedding a woman" can get their head put back tigether. Here, it just sound like it was all Roxy's idea. :/ Also, why no Jirou making it home?!?
3 things that imo should have made it into the episode 1. Roxy learning that Rudeus is married and about to be a father 2. Its been 2-3 weeks of them trying to help Rudy since they got out of the labyrinth 3. Elinalisse was the one that suggested someone close to his heart sleep with Rudy to help him get his emotions together (She didn't want to because she has Cliff and is Sylphie's Grandma, Lilia didn't want to for very obvious reasons, and that only left Roxy, who initially didn't want to), this was literally a last resort and not something everyone was ready and excited to do, which while still wrong, it does give the context that this was a drastic measure for a borderline emergency situation for everyone.
From the perspective of the anime. Its a completely different telling of this part of the story. Do not try to pull "cut content" in like it might be cannon. While the additional content might bring more context, the pacing and tone would be something else entirely. If you knew Roxy knew going into that conversation in the bedroom it would be completely different tone for the rest of the episode. Roxy also says that Geese and Elise decided to leave him alone, nothing else. So the anime is specifically omitting that part of the LN and I would honestly consider that if it wasnt mentioned in the anime it is not cannon for this telling.
@@aerostorm_ I personally consider them both "Canon" in the sense that if it's not contradicted then it happened off screen. Since this episode had a clear tone difference, I think that if they ever wanted to they could always "confirm" by doing a flashback giving the context without taking away to what this episode already delivered. The roxy finding out part is just something I wanted to see come to life in animation. The planning of sleeping with rudeus because it "softens the blow" (at least imo) of Roxy's reasoning. Since in the anime she seemed a bit more crude, which might be what they were going for, I'm willing to admit/accept that. Also I believe (don't quote on that) that the anime has the objective of adapting specifically the Light Novel, obviously they can diverge, but if that is the goal, then I'll stick to my "both are cannon until proven otherwise approach"
@@Tounushi I just remember that it was more than a week, and since they don't mention months then it's less than a month, therefore I assumed 2-3 weeks. I didn't remember the specifics, if it was 9 days then that's that.
@@huyiwei-u7t Literally reading the paragraph in the Light Novel now where it says they got married, ya dolt. Zenith however enforced a rule where Paul couldn't sleep with Lilia again until Zenith and Paul had a third child But the teleportation incident happened before they ever conceived again. Maybe read the Novels in whatever your native language is
You guys are seriously some of the most mature/intelligent reactors on the platform. Always enjoyable to watch your reactions and the discussions after.
One of the few reaction that did not yelling and act mad at Rudy or Roxy, but try to thinking in different angle. Great reaction, that's the kind of reaction I want to watch, to see diff people thinking and try to understand what the author is doing on their way, but not just obsessed with some "JUSTICE" and keep judging the characters' words and deeds.
Especially those who even judged people who provide different views. Sadly so many are putting themselves on a moral high ground and look down on people who thinks differently
Ana gets it. It might be the first female reactor that had a mature/smart take on the matter, that doesn't take it personally and its not completely emotionally incontrollable and spouting out in the mic whatever criticism they have over the situation. Congratulations to Ana. Its definitely good to see someone using their brain every once in a while
don't mind me, i'm just waiting here to see people come angry at you calling you names and how it turns out, its a whole anime these comment sections heheheh
Agreed. After Adorkable (who usually has a perceptive take on things) from YaboyRockLee could barely contain her disgust and disappointment with this episode, Annas view on it *very* welcome and refreshing. It's nice to see a female reactor who doesn't just go "...this is cheating!" and then completely shuts down for the rest of the episode...
Playing with fire here, but I have to laugh ... I DEFINITELY have noticed a very stark gender split in reactions to what happened in this episode. This might overall be the first channel I've seen whose first instinct was to contextualize what happened by the different moral standards of the setting, and this is a big part of why this channel does analysis so much better than most.
This is why Autosave are the GOAT, Love how they fill in the 'cut content' pretty accurately without help. The amount of EQ needed to be able to empathize with Rudy in this very unique situation while understanding this is not our real world but another fictional world. Personally I actually love the changes make to Roxy actions here compare to the novel, it make her more Mature comparative to the novel version. Which it should be since she's Rudy's master and like 40 years older than him. The way the portray how there is a deep connection between Rudy and Roxy but they both trying not to step over the boundary more than they already have is so awesome. Love the 'show don't tell' approach the anime take. God I hope season 3 will happen, Please season 3 Fall 2025?
You can see her age from many of her interactions being very calm, at least at first, compared to other girls of her appearance that you'd see in anime. What Mushoku Tensei is doing now is a contrast to the "fanservice" and comedy that we now see in a lot of other isekai anime (Re;Zero, and then Mushoku Tensei have inspired many of those tropes) and now says "alright, we had this fun and all, but maybe showing a more serious story is better?". And it does so from the fact that Rudeus is actually maturing, and becoming more serious about the world and people being not NPCs and side characters (look at Ginger, even though she is a side character, she's developed in design, has family, was shown oftentimes and important roles). Toned down his intrusive sexual thoughts and began to understand and desire romantic and personal, character-based connections and relationships, like the marriage to Sylphiette. The incident with Roxy seems to have mirrored that with Eris: a reactor once said that Eris did it from devastation and hopelessness about the future, stopping to care about herself at all. She's not good with words, but you can see that from words like "I don't care what we'll be" when asked about relationship type, and she wanted to cross off the sharing of bed part they promised each other because she wanted to release at least some stress in a combination with her love of Rudeus.
If you look at the clues, it's not that hard. Most people don't pay that much attention when watching a series/movie and they want it spoonfed to them.
these two are really intuitive with the little stuff which is why I like their reactions, they both stop talking when its important an pick up on minor details a lot of other channels miss
I love how in Mushoku Tensei the characters feel so genuine and real. Everyone has their flaws, no one is perfect, but they always try to be the best person they can be. The growth that each one experiences in their own way is something that always manages to move me. On the other hand, I liked how Rudy was able to go from seeing Roxy purely as an object of adoration, perfect and without any flaws. To realize that what he always felt for her was love, she was literally her first love.
@@jthadcast yeah, I read the novel and loved both approaches. Those are different but none of them seem bad to me. Although the novel is my favorite due to the amount of details and extra content
Just watching how you guys handled the part of Roxy with Rudy, I can now say 100% that you guys are my new favourite reactors. Some times people got to understand that this still a show about a guy that revived in a magic world, not a section to dump all their feelings and insecurities in
Finally you guys are few people who understand about "Use their world standard/PoV". They aren't Millis follower and Sylphiette also suggest Rudy to marry in early episode of this cour (obviously she explain it for different reason)
i gave every reaction channel you can find on TH-cam a chance, and yet none of them are at your level. i live for these half hour discussions and it makes me happy to see how in depth you go in your theories, it truly shows that you are enjoying the show and not only watching it for the sake of it. at this point i am starting to watch series after series (even those i wouldnt give a chance to sometimes) just so i can see your reaction afterwards, hell rn its 3AM and i stayed up because i have been waiting for this reaction since the episode dropped (and its also the only channel i watch only on my phone because on my pc i have and ad block). really thank you for these reaction, hope you'll hit 100k soon :)
Novel readers should be ashamed all week they have been complaining about skipped content Ben and Ana out here understanding everything without having knowledge of the novel is crazy they are genuinely the smartest reaction channel out there they too good at what they do
To be fair, passing judgment based on top performers is.... questionable. I'm fine with the cut content mostly, as the show is still several times better than I ever dared dream it would be (I still remember I never wanted it animated because I knew for certain the many potential fanservice moments would get played up and ruin just... everything). But even the best adaptation stood no chance of containing everything, and they do need to get to certain points by certain episodes (Couldn't well end a season on this episode as an example) which demands pacing changes. With all that said lets not pretend there haven't been a few (just a few) questionable choices, and even outside those, quality content that it would have been nice to see. The culture of Begaritt is an unfortunate casualty of pacing. For many it might have better lubricated current events (malleable family dynamics). It's an acceptable loss, but unfortunate nonetheless. Some people just mourn such things a bit... sloppy.
The author understood that a certain number of people would not accept this episode, but they put a lot of effort into making it more acceptable to a wider audience. The remarkable aspect of this work is the thorough construction of customs, morals, and ethics in the alternate world, which adds a lot of credibility. Additionally, I think the way characters like Paul and Elinalise, who might cause psychological resistance based on our own ethical standards, are introduced as a lead-up and buffer for this episode is brilliant. This is why I feel it's considered the pinnacle of the "Narou-kei" genre.
I largely agree, but I think this wouldn't have felt so jarring if the resolution to Paul, Zenith and Lillia's relationship had been better explained. Even a couple sentences explaining that Paul had married Lillia in an official capacity would have set this up. I knew how this was gonna go, and I still felt this came out of left field, since polygamous relationships didn't come up anywhere else till now.
One thing I think it was a missed opportunity to build up how relationships works and differs in this world from our world is the mercenary tribe vs succubus in Bergaritt. How women warriors have to have sex with charmed male warriors to free them and the pregnant ones go home to raise the kids and go back to the group when the kid is old enough to survive on their own.
I highly doubt the author gives a single F about how hurt people are over here, he doesn't even bother to check. The anime has changed small things from the very start of the anime not just this episode, so I don't think him or the stuff treated this episode any differently than any other episode.
I hope we get a second MT anime someday because this scene could have been done so much better. Imagine Rudy after a month without bathing, holed up in a room full of flies and rotting food. Maybe show Rudy's hair falling out or something to indicate malnourishment. NOW Roxy has to go into there and try bring him back to life. If the scene had been portrayed with more severity everyone would think Roxy is a hero and just be glad that Rudy is alive.
That actually concerns me. Because trying to reach the wider audience waters down the experience. The characters already felt realistic and heavily flawed in the novels, but I the changes here I'm not so sure was a great idea because Roxy being aggressive was a bit out of character for her and I already like how the difficult subject matter is handled. I just hope no further changes happen.
Idk if you guys know this or not but you two are everybodies favorite Mushoku reactors, the amount of love yall get on Twitter in crazy, even in the Spanish speak Mushoku community, and imo it’s nothing but well deserved🙏🗣️
Always happy to see the best reviewers ply their craft! Its not odd that you didnt realize Lilia didnt marry Paul. Its frequently discussed in the book that Lilia's guilt/self-worth complex makes her act like a servant. Not terribly healthy, especially because of how it effected Aisha. Also, its key to recall that polygamy was legal in Japan until 1898. Its much more ingrained in their idea of 'medieval stuff', in much the same way western creators try to make every medieval show about powerful houses under a lord. Where Japan thinks of 'clans ruled by councils' or Chinese think of informal clans that just 'happen' to ace exams for generations as opposed to ingrained nepotism. Its almost an unconsious need to inject a bit of your culture's development and context into something you are TRYING to make foreign.
@@ryaz4704 It was super democratic! That you married your daughter to your successful coworker, had their son tutored by the best tutored by the previous year's high ranker and the kid scored extremely well to get a cushy gig was a coincidence! That this is the norm is merely that you studied harder and had better karma! We totally aren't nepotistic, Jim in accounting was a country peasant! Irony aside, ancient chinese dynasties went through dramatic attempts to look meritocratic but in practice the exams were heavily slanted on knowing specific texts with the right answer. It was a rigged game where a very smart handful of peasants getting a low ranking job was the proof of fairness. Powerful families still functionally had power but they pretended they were self-made and every rival family were the nepotistic ones. It was like the worst extremes of modern universities on crack.
@@curiousinquisitor59 I said democrasy lite as a joke to how they still held voting but only internally between the higher ups. But thanks for the context. I think I saw something similar to what you've explained in the anime Apothecary Diaries
Not polygamy. Polygyny. Polyandry which is the other type of polygamy was illegal in Japan and the rest of the world as well. You have to search quite hard to find a single country/empire/civilization that allowed polyandry. And that's mainly because of our biology as humans.
Not in other world even, in our world it was prevalent during the medieval era and still exists and accepted culturally in certain parts of the world. What matters the most is consenting adult agreeing to the relationship.
First at all, the author confessed that he was forced to make changes to make more "acceptable". We can understand skip content for time matters, but change a character, it's concerning. Roxy is a social fool, being so "aggressive", it doesn't make sense at all, for her character, while in the novel she was babbling nonsenses. After Roxy hugs Rudeus, she tried to put some distance but Rudeus pulls toward to her because he felt calm when he heard Roxy’s hearts beats. The novel is more about emotions in that moment, principaly frustration, Roxy received all that night, less affection. For most of people that isn't important but it is. Of course, I never hoped a 1:1 adaptation, but change things for bad that is other thing.
"Before Sylphy was my grandchild, Roxy is my bestie" - Elinalise, probably.
Not probably it's actually something she said more or less lmao.
She literally say this in novel, a bit different phrasing but the same meaning.
Exact words by her in the light novel
she literally says this in the LN
Basically says yes sylphy is my granddaughter but I barley know her whereas Roxy is a close friend that she wants to see happy.
Roxy's goal: make Rudy stop being upset about Paul.
Result: Rudy and also the entire audience are no longer upset about Paul.
Mission accomplished!
Paul isn't dead, he's inside Rudeus this whole time
Now he can took the title scumbag with him.
Side effect: The audience is now upset about Roxy or Rudy instead lmaoo
Really took her job as the master seriously to show us how it's done.
@@Vertutame you're right 😂
One thing I like about this episode is that they were totally upfront about their feelings. Roxy admits what she did was wrong, that she was being selfish, and she doesn’t try to justify it. Mushoku tensei has some of the realest character writing.
Roxy doesn’t try to justify it, but for some reason, the fans are trying really hard to do so lol
@@higashikatajosuke98 because it is obviously in part her trying to shift the blame completely to herself. Yes she saw her chance and took it, yes she might just wanted to find an excuse to do what she wanted to do, but at the end of the day, she did the right thing, Rudeus needed that help. It is just a "bad" thing if you see it from a deontologist perspective where actions are bad because they are bad. If you analyze it using a consequentialist perspective, the did the action that brought the best outcome.
@@higashikatajosuke98 Roxy is also taking the guilt so that she can deflect any feelings she or Rudy might have to allow her to "step aside" because shes made her own assumptions about what the outcome will be. She wanted to save Rudeus and then take the fall for her own actions. However, instead Rudy decides to open up and try to "make them both happy" as he said.
@@higashikatajosuke98 It shows that Roxy is trying to take all the blame, despite it was her who offered the hand and companionship to pull him from his grief. Roxy is trying to justify to Rudy that her actions are "taking advantage of him" when in reality she was trying to help Rudy.
@@higashikatajosuke98 Ehh, I feel that the vast majority of the "outrage" from this episode is aimed at Rudy and not Roxy. It's "Rudeus who cheated / is a dirtbag / promised he would be faithful", etc, when the truth is that yes, Rudeus did cheat... *but* ... and it's a big effing B-U-T.
"I am also aware that is me putting myself and preconceptions of me as an individual onto a character that is not me" so refreshing to have people that can think about thinking.
Thank you Anna, your view on this polygamy thing is perfect. Sure, we can be pissed at the idea, but they can do what they want as long as all of them are consenting.
That's not a rare take...
@@kamikaze.33 I never said that it's rare lol
This has been by far a top 3 reaction to this episode out of the countless ones already out there. Psyculturists and Anime Date Night are the other 2. It takes serious emotional intelligence to truly understand and appreciate the depth of what’s actually going on in this episode.
havent heard of anime date night. love autosave and psyculturist to death, will check them out thanks!
I dont get the appeal of psychulturist
Paul in heaven cheering on his son talking about the two swords.
I don't think the Mushoku Tensei world has an afterlife, because of how mana works, which makes Paul's dead even sadder.
Unfortunately, no MT heaven but I can totally see Paul laughing, waving 2 swords! 😂
"I thought so! That's my boy! Wahahahaaaa!"
@@fcgHendenhow would he know then? Is there some kind of spiritual realm everyone goes to?
Personally I think he goes to the opposite of heaven
@@fcgHenden It's a lie from Hitogami. remember, everything Hitogami say is bullsh*t until proven otherwise.
Even if the anime did things differently than the novel, i think the studio did a great job with the time they had. It still managed to transmit the same feelings that i felt when i read this chapter in the novel. Also kinda glad they skipped a certain part of the conversation Elinalise had with Rudy, it made her look really manipulative in the novels
As a non novel reader it felt pretty rushed to me tbh. Just comparatively to Eris who had a whole season of buildup, then sylphie who had a whole half season (which I admittedly criticized for being to slow, but still when the time came I felt fulfilled bc there was proper buildup). Even tho I know the idea is that Rudy and Roxy already knew each other, their connection was never as deep as the other 2 girls. So yea we all expected this but imo it happened way too quickly where I just dont feel any empathy or connection to Roxy whatsoever. She still feels like an old side character to me and I feel they could have at least given 1 full episode for Rudy to wallow in his sorrows, and then maybe do this next episode. Also just to clarify I don't have any problem with polygamy and actually enjoy the show challenging social constructions.
In regards to skipping the Elinalise conversation, I actually would have loved that sure maybe it's manipulative but that's actually real and authentic which I would prefer over making the anime more "friendly". I want to see the ugly sides, that's part of the reason I fell in love with Mushoku in the first place, it felt different than any other show and pulled me in. But season 2, while still good, has felt like it's slowly creeping closer to a generic shounen harem isekai. Which scares me bc I genuinely LOVE this series. I hope it's maybe just a long setup for an epic season 3
@@QMS9224I would agree but I'd rather not get the show cancelled, thank you 😂.
@@QMS9224I get that you would feel that way, Roxy's impact could seem minimal from a viewers perspective, but to Rudeus it was huge. They lived together for a few years when he was a child, studying and learning about each other every single day. She "cured" his fear of going outside the house, a huge issue for Rudeus so far as to establish a religion around Roxy and see her as a God (it could be seen as a recurrent gag but for him the impact was that big), and we got a few episodes since rescuing her from the labyrinth of bonding again (skipped many of those moments in the anime).
I agree this could have been better paced, but I don't think Roxy is a stranger or had not as much time with Rudeus as the other girls
@@QMS9224 The biggest difference I see with this depression is that after Eris he was entirely alone, no family, no friends, no one that loved him to even try to help him. Even after finding out about his ED and burning the bridge with Sara, he had Soldat and his group to lean on. So I can buy into the "quicker" recovery, though the travel across the desert to the teleporter circle would take them atleast a month, and we see in the montage he's still heavily leaning on Roxy to move forward.
Rudy was way more desperate in the novel, I feel like they should have had him looking like a hobo covered in flies, that would have reversed everyone's opinion of the situation, because if Rudy was outwardly disgusting then Roxy's act would actually be seen as selfless because Rudy was practically at death's door.
Ben looking like a disappointed father😅😂
24:00 My personal take is Elinalise is still much more attached to Roxy than she is Sylphy, who Elinalise had effectively no contact with before the wedding, so it makes sense that Elinalise would strongly favor what is good for Roxy over what is good for Sylphy.
I had the impression she wanted happiness for both 🤔
@@magicflierplays There is no way around she is hurting Sylphy by endorsing Roxy.
Having general goodwill doesn't mean she isn't taking favorites.
@@budthecyborg4575she also seem to be generally more mature than all of em. Taking the elder stance and considers everyone's well being in the long run. Sacrificing her own feelings regarding her grandchild. Seeing Paul growth even when he ends up w 2 wife also take a part in it i think
Also she probably felt some what guilty of the situation since (LN skipped content) it was kinda her idea to bang the depression out of Rudy.
@@budthecyborg4575Yes but Elinalise didn't say "take Roxy as your wife, even if Sylphie leaves you". She is only able to say all that because she is putting faith into Rudy being able to love them both equally and that Sylphie wouldn't be opposed to another wife because she doesn't follow Millis. If the conditions weren't so favourable, I'm not so certain she'd still endorse it.
best discussion and understanding of this episode i have seen from ANY reactor to this episode good shit. mad respect
Its quite amazing how you guys can get most of the small cues of the series even when they skip a lot of things from the novel.
I was curious to see how Ben would react since he was so sure Rudeus would NEVER go for Roxy haha XD.
I love your view regarding Mushoku the most. Thank You for you beautiful reactions❤❤...
Specifically your end discussion is so great.I wish you people were a LN reader because there's a lot of context missing but you guys reached a conclusion almost the same as me. Great reaction as always..
Some people really forget the old times, and mad about this episode religion and time really changes people. at the end of the day this is an anime and I love and appreciate the story telling~
Just wanted to point out the callbacks that this show likes so much. The "you'll have to ask me again later" obviously parallels when Rudeus asks Roxy the same thing in season 1 and she tells him to ask again in a decade. The last episode and this episode obviously corresponds to the corresponding episodes in season 1 cour 2, the fight episode followed by the romantic episode, with Rudeus broken and Roxy even straddled Rudeus like Eris did.
I feel like the message of this episode ultimately was what Roxy said about needing to cherish the future and your current family. The message is framed by a brutal world where people die in combat. So it's almost like you need to fight "fucked" with "fucked", like, "both my parents are incapacitated, well screw this, I'm taking a second wife". Being greedy, not missing any opportunities, because in a brutal world you have to take everything you can.
also lol @ Anna's "good ending" to Mushoku Tensei. We're going to need one of those Fate cooking series for the MT characters.
5:15
Your eyes are as big as old school anime characters.
25:35 But, remember, Norn is a serious Millis believer.
Your reactions/reviews are the best 👌🏽
autosave my favorite mt reaction channel
The book explains Zenith is a big follower of the Millis religion. I can't recall if the anime went out of their way to explain that.
Commenting for the algorithm.
18:15 As a polyamourous person, Mushoku Tensei hit different for ne. I actually HATE most "harem" animes, full of fake relationships, pervy moments treated like affronts, and usually none of the possible partners getting a chance to express their feelings. So, when I see actual loving, concentual, joyous unions of more than two people, it's beautiful and romantic, and relatable. Even most other animes that contain poly-type relationships do it for comedic value, i.e., 100 Girlfriends, Isekai Maou, Date A Live, Kanojo na Kanojo (though none of those loving parnters are just for giggles.
Rudeus is damn serious about his feelings and his behavior towards whomever loves him. I mean, Sylphy called it when she got with Rudi, saying she understood if(when) he brought home another woman.
Goddess bless, just seeing Roxy again was enough hype for me for seqson 2!
one thing that is mentioned in this episode and that is taken up much later is that Rudy sees himself as an impostor, even though he wants to take advantage of that second chance, he does not stop thinking that he took away someone's opportunity to live.
Having read some untranslated parts of the Roxy manga... Paul mentioned during the planning of Rudeus' fifth birthday party that he was born blue and he wasn't breathing.
@@Tounushi if you read the novel, then you know exactly why no "original" Rudeus exists in any other time
@@aerostorm_ I know, but those aren't relevant for AOs to know right now.
Great point Anna, is a different world, different social construct.
You guys are the most interesting and intelligent reactors on youtube. The only one that can rival you are Wes and Steph. Eager to see their take on this episode!!!
I love your reactions and involvement with the story and how many questions you ask are really on point.
Loved the reaction and discussion ❤
Lilia is such an amazing character!
We secured Bulbasaur and Squirtle.
Great reaction and review
Kudos
Great video. 😊
18:20 Is a great polygamy introduction. The two woman have a deep connection with him, is not something for the luxury or momentary passion. Is a little harder relationship to manage, but is possible.
28:40 Yes, that's what make me like so much Mushoku. The complex conflicts dealing with reincarnation appears, when in most of stories play no role (that I have read/seen at least).
35:40 Zenith state is so hard to see.
The pacing in the anime is too rushed. Rudy was actually so devastated that he locked himself up for nearly a month before being comforted by his teacher during his most vulnerable moment, which helped him pull himself together.
In the end, Elinalise had known Roxy for longer than recognizing Sylphy as her granddaughter...
You're missing the fact that Norn was mad at Rudeus and complained to Ruijerd "He's with a different woman" because the first time she saw him was with Eris. So definitely she will not acept this poligamy
If you think about it, the only reason Sylphy was the first to reunite with Rudeus instead of Roxy is because the latter chose to accompany Paul on the search for Zennith while sending Elinalise to find Rudeus in her place. In other words, Roxy nearly lost her shot at realizing the love of her dreams, all because she prioritized the wellbeing of her partner's family over her own desire to see him again. Knowing that, I'm glad she isn't being lambasted as a homewrecker and is instead being given a chance to try and work something out. It'd just be too pitiful otherwise.
👆👍She even wrote a whole textbook on her native tongue just because Rudy expressed interest, and had difficulty learning it, which is kind of insane if you think about it. How many hours would it take to just DO that? Then of course, she gave years of her life searching for his family, without even asking for compensation. She wasn't attracted until meeting him again at the labyrinth, but she clearly did love Rudeus/the Greyrats dearly.
Given that Rudy's loved her for so long, to cast Roxy aside without even trying to see if things could work would be very harsh. All for values that nobody there expects him to hold cause he doesn't follow the one faith/ideology in their world that would demand he reject her in this situation.
the best mushoku tensei reactors
btw the part where Rudy is saying he hasn't changed at all etc is actually the first time Rudy actually tells someone he is reincarnated. the episode didn't make it as clear but that's what has basically happened there and Roxy's answer to Rudy when he asks her what he should do now when she says you should cherish the family you have left etc it was all with that context
I love the discussion, this is a cool react video👍 as a original source reader, this address a lot of the problem that is mention in the LN, ofc since its an anime they had to skipped out a lot of context and content.
Fun fact: During the discussion between Elinalise and Rudeus, Elinalise threatened Rudeus into marrying Roxy because Roxy got "pregnant". Basically, "take responsibility" type stuff.
Wait, I just realized they left out one of the most important parts of this scene. In the books, Rudy told her about his past life. He just told it as a story and didn't tell, it's about him.
I really wish they kept that part. It cemented the fact he was not only mourning Paul’s death and Zenith’s condition in this world, but he was finally mourning his previous parents deaths as well. It was that facet of this moment that really sold this scene to me.
@@jeremyyang3212 That he was mourning his previous parents deaths was still made clear I think. At least that's what they likely had in mind with the beginning.
So the only thing that's really missing is that Roxy might know now.
@@porky1118 I get that was what they implied with the start, I just felt that it was Rudy putting it into words that lead to Roxy giving him her answer to “treasure the family that remains” rather than just him asking her what he should do now.
Hood way to put it, Ana! If they're consenting adults, it's fine even for this world. 😊
Elinalise is like: "As a person, who is on the receiving end of the Millis way of doing things, and can appreciate how nice it feels to be the single target of someone's affections, and as the grandmother of the person you are married to -- I still say it's perfectly alright if you take on another wife. I love my granddaughter, but I also love my good friend with whom I've travelled the world searching for you. I would think I've come to know you in the past couple years, but in case you need to hear it: as Paul's son, you're at least a good enough man to make multiple wives happy."
WHOA WHAT IS THIS DISCUSSION
The start of this episode hit me hard, even as a reader. You just know its going to be a real one when they cold open with a flashback and credits to skip the OP that s2 has made habitual at this point.
it also flew over my head that paul married lilia but thinking back to the way rudy married sylphy its more like zenith married lilia into the family saying "no you stay here and live with us"
iirc in the LN Roxy didn't wanna do it with Rudy at first but Elinalese and Geese where the ones who encouraged her to do that, opposite to what happened in the Anime.
That's one interpretation of it. The text itself had them spitball ideas as to how to get him on his feet again. Taking him to a brothel is the go-to solution for adventurers, but they recognized he wouldn't go for any random girl there. Elinalise adamantly refused to do it, even though she's an expert at soothing men's heartache. Suggesting Lilia was immediately shot down. They concluded he'd get on his feet on his own eventually.
I love every characters in Mushoku Tensei.
Unfortunately, The anime is a bit too concise. The anime has cut out some important stories and didn't do it as well as the light novel. Many people may not understand this ep. I've read the light novel of this anime, everything has a good reason.
I expect nothing less than the probably best reactors in the world.
they cut out so so so so soo much from the light novel as compared to this episode and I feel including all that would have made it a million times better. There is 10x more Rudeus introspection, thinking about his past life, equation with paul and everything. there is a whole section of elinalise roxy and geese discussing how to help rudy and them suggesting sex would help but maybe take him to a brothel since elinalise can't help and finally Roxy deciding to do it herself. also the internal conflict in Roxy when then discuss taking Rudy to a brothel. Then there is an bunch that was skipped from Rudy's talks with elinalise as well as Roxy and with full context it doesn't even need the milis faith comparison to make anyone understand that this isn't blasphemy or anything haha. also a HUUUUGE development which they didn't mention as well which I think they will later, at least I hope.
1 thing im really scared is now Rudy got to tell about Paul death to Norn and Aisha. I dont to see how they gonna react to his death and to the state of Zenith now
Interesting fact the anime cut how a majority of the chapter's discussion between Roxy and Elenise and also there was a scene left out that was supposed to happen before the start of the episode. There was a huge discussion how Rudy had not been eating for a week and they were all discussing how to lift Rudy's spirits again. Geusse suggested that someone beds Rudy to give him a euphoria to bring back his will to live and suggests Elenise to do it which she refuses. This results in Roxy thinking about approaching Rudy's room. Also a lot of other things were changed as well from the source material. In the Light Novel, Roxy was not the one who pushed Rudeus down. It was Roxy who got up first to leave and it was Rudeus who pushed Roxy down. To which Roxy then says "it's throw all your stress at me. Rudeus ended up being quite rough. Rifujin the author was very worried about how this episode was going to turn out and be perceived by the pubic. Another thing is Elenise also scares Rudy into trying to marry Roxy by lying to him that he might have gotten Roxy pregnant. One of the big changes which I believe really should not have been cut was that Rudeus and Roxy when they wake up the next morning have a little pillow talk, a philosophical discussion about reincarnation where Rudy all but reveals he is a reincarnated person.
I'd say monogamy is a standard mainly in the Western sphere because Christianity emphasize monogamy. Other parts of the world, like places around the continent of Asia, still practice cultural polygamy today. The reports are generally not in English though, so it is scarcely available for English readers. And even then, only entertaining drama make it to headlines, so a majority of poly families still fall under the radar, (which is perfectly appropriate).
Crazy thing is monogamy even throughout European history has only been a very loose standard (e.g. Henry the 8th) and in modern times chastity is totally non-existent and adultery is rampant, but the facade of monogamy is still upheld by the legal system.
29:45 bro was on thin ice
Let's ignore my feelings and think about this. In this world, people die very easily. In this world, polygamy is a very efficient system for people who cannot have many children at once. The Milis religion is thought to have taken root in areas that are somewhat stable even in such a world.
I remember when Ben was in love with Zenith in the first few episodes. Sad :/
dunno if you two watch cut content from this stuff but for this episode so much was removed/ changed which better leads to/ explains why things go the way they do. anime still did a great job of it but almost a whole episode could have happened between last episode and the start of this one
I don't think polygamy is necessarily "bad" but cheating, and abusive relationships are bad.
the anime skipped when Rudeus mentions that Zenith made Paul take Lilia as a second wife
33:22 Paul trained with Lilia in the Dojo owned by her father, Paul was mistreated there for being too good while also not appreciating Lilia as everyone else treated her like a princess, so Paul raped Lilia (even though she was the one who treated him well) to get back at the other students and the flee the dojo. This Ruined Lilia's life as she couldn't trust men anymore even though her job was basically marry with whoever would become the next dojo leader, her father opted to send her to work on the palace harem where she probably got raped again by the crazy Asuran nobles to the point that she remembers Paul raping her as a "good memory" as in "I'm glad that at least it was him who took my first time". Lilia protected baby Ariel from assasins but got permanently injured (she currently can't even run properly for example) so she got fired, that's when she got hired by Paul, she planned to use rape incident to blackmail him if needed but it wasn't needed
Paul didn't violate her out of the blue.
Paul's freedom was taken away from him, essentially being forced to stay at the dojo by appealing to his own sense of competition and honor. Lilia's mother blamed him for his husband not paying as much attention to her anymore, how he doesn't do anything for the house he's staying at, and how he's a negative influence on Lilia. Lilia's father wanted Paul to become his successor and take Lilia as his wife, passing down his knowledge in the Water God Style to him. His former classmate, the Water God at the time, took personal interest in training Paul, so when Paul finally got the upper hand in the duel score against Lilia's father, Reida said he's taking Paul with her to train, while Lilia's father told Paul of his own plans. Not to mention the students all hated him and his misbehavior.
So he was getting bottles hurled at him, the masters kicked his ass day in and day out, the students all ganged up on him... He wanted out. And since his sword was kept in Lilia's room (taken from the other students who'd hidden it away), he decided to vent all his anger and frustration out on Lilia while on the way out.
The scene in the transcript (machine-translated):
Lilia: hn...W-what do you think you’re doing? Get away from me...! I’ll scream-
[Before she could finish her pleading, he covered her mouth with his hand. With his free hand, he grabbed Lilia’s wrists and held them over her head.]
Paul: I’ll tell you something for future reference, in a situation where you have to scream, you shouldn’t loudly say you’re going to scream.
Lilia: !! Mnh-mnh! Mnnnh!!
Paul: ...you know, I hate troublesome things. But I’ve had to put up with a lot, haven’t I?
I was dragged to the dojo, forced to participate in training from sunrise to sunset, and had to deal with those weak but prideful assholes...
I’ve had to endure being beaten up by too strong opponents, and I’ve had to bear with the abuse of a woman who tries to get closer to her husband...
[Just remembering all this made him angry. Paul looked down at Lilia in frustration.]
Paul: I’ve had enough of it all, okay? I’m getting out of here.
But before I do, I’m going to vent all my irritations.
[Lilia probably realized what he was going to do to her. She tried to resist by thrashing her body, but...]
Paul: You can’t beat me with force.
Lilia: !!
Paul: Well, let’s enjoy each other’s company. I hear I’m pretty good at it.
[As if to relieve his pent-up frustration, Paul took Lilia’s virginity that night. A few hours later...]
[Just before dawn-. Paul woke up and saw Lilia sleeping next to him. He thought back to his actions last night and broke out in a cold sweat.]
Paul: (I fucked up...)
(...halfway through, Lilia started getting into it, so that means it was consensual... doesn’t it!?)
[Flute would definitely be fuming if she found out that I had messed with Lilia.]
Paul: (As expected, Augusta would be pissed... or maybe he’ll force me to take responsibility and marry her...?)
I’m getting the hell out of here.
W analysis and discussion 👍
Roxy: I said I was going to get with someone who saved me in a Dungeon, and I'm gonna do it!
"Sorry Sylphy, your Prince is exploring another dungeon tonight"
20:52 not ironically, literally in season 1 ep 4 they already gave a glimpse of what could happen in this world, of course in the anime it wasn't very elaborated yet how idiosyncrasies worked in this different world, although they already mentioned Millis's faith.
>Like father like son
There is one clear distinction though, Paul had no intention of consoling Zenith (she is a Millis worshipper after all) originally before the cheating was revealed, whereas Rudy wanted to respect his wife and gain consent from both parties before taking the relationship further.
"respect his wife" haha, no. he wanted to respect his wife in the novel where, after all Elinalise's persuasion, he still decided to be faithful to Sylphy, which is why Elinalise had to lie to him about Roxy's pregnancy. here Rudeus doesn’t care about Sylphy’s feelings or his promises
let me point this out.
The important psychological portrayal, the discussion between Geese and Elinalise was lost, which is too essential for the depth of this plot. Rudy's sadness and his regret for not properly honoring his parents in this life and past lives were not expressed. Elinalise's inner conflict (her love for her granddaughter and her friendship with Roxy) was also not expressed. Now it seems that Roxy is just an opportunistic third wheel, and Elinalise is inexplicably sabotaging her own granddaughter, which is very different from the novel.
it didn’t show the inner conflict Elinalise was having. Geese asked Elinalise to have sex with Rudy because he thought that this 'activity' was how a man got comfort. And Elinalise did that in the past. (She was the one who told Geese that was how a man got comfort.)
However, Elinalise was not into that this time because she didn't want to betray her granddaughter and Cliff.
"After" hearing this, Roxy decided to help Rudy herself. She didn't come up with the idea to have sex with Rudy. Geese did. However, in this version Roxy became the one who immediately thought of having sex with Rudy. Who the fk would instantly think of using vagina to heal a man?
After, Elinalise found out Roxy and Rudy were having sex. She thought a lot and came up with the idea that "I met Roxy first. Then, I reunited with my granddaughter. I love them both so I have to be that guy to suggest Rudy to marry Roxy." However, in this version, Elinalise ran straight to the conclusion that Rudy could fairly love Sylvie and Roxy at the same time because he was Paul's son.
Did the anime show this depth? No, it didn't. Did it show the sadness of Rudy and Roxy's selfish and selfless actions? Yes, it did.
So, it is a 5/10 because it only did half the job. The anime was doing so good in the season but suddenly this come up. It is hard to not feel angry about that.
I strongly suggest that this part must be supplemented by reading the novel.
I like Roxy in the light novel but given how the animator presented Roxy, she is a opportunistic third wheel. They are different character now. And that's not only my point of view. Most people out there are now hating Roxy because of this episode. Changing the plot for the board audience? Because there are not enough time? Not an excuse.
Forgive my ignorance as I'm sure I missed it. What was the point of the blindfold when they all left the teleporter?
So they don’t know where the teleported is
They actually wore it for several hours of waking afterwards
@@TheRoleplayer40k What's the harm in them knowing where it is? They're all, for the most part, family or very close friends of Rudy and Elinalise who wouldn't do anything malicious. Well, aside from [spoiler] but we don't know about them yet.
@@Ichigoku15 If they gossip about it (like when drunk) and the government finds out, it will be destroyed (teleporters are illegal).
and if its destroyed it will inconvience Orstead a lot, who will come looking for whoever destroyed it, and perhaps lead him back to Rudy and his family.
Rudy would like to avoid annoying Orstead (or revealing that Nanahoshi told him about it without asking permission) so is keeping its location a secret
The more people that know a secret the greater the odds it will get out by accident
So best to keep its location a secret for just him and Ellis
@@TheRoleplayer40kThat makes a ton of sense now. Thank you!
20:10 Btw, relevant to what the gentleman is talking about, this Short is by a channel that ALWAYS does Mushoku Tensei "Fun Facts. This Short gives a damn good gist of what was changed about Roxy and Rudi's behavior in this episode. Popped up just when I was so irritated that great reqcters like this couple are getting a hella different take of everything.
th-cam.com/users/shorts814i69DNkzU?si=SXpnWTMJQyzYceZJ
When your grandma is the ultimate matchmaker, but she already found you one so she's moved on to your husband.
Shout out to studio Bind for full on skipping the most important conversation of the series up until this point (the one that happens between Rudy and Roxy) odd choice but okay?
Polygamy is commonplace in this world, and also Rudy doesn’t have multiple wives for the status or clout, he genuinely loves all of them. He will also ask Sylphie for permission before making things official with Roxy
To the people getting mad at this, there is actually polygamy in the world where the husband treats the wives like actual trophies/servants. Rudy marries these girls because they are the loves of his life
It was rudeus who pushes roxy to bed not Roxy in light novel
Im glad when reactor actually have a sense that for most of humanity history, polygamy is the normal thing.
LES GOOOOOOO
18:30 Ana it is more than nad. Since distribution of sexes is on average 50:50 the polygamy means incelifocation of male part of society because in polygamous countries only the richest and high class get atractive enough to get more than one wife.
It might be harmless on individual level but on societal it's very harmfull. There is a reason that 9 out of 10 most dangerous countries to be in are polygamist.
Unfortunately, the anime cut a lot of things from the original, there are many parts that were completely irrelevant in the anime, apart from the fact that rudeus practically reveals to Roxy that he is reincarnated, among other things.
The crazy thing about all the backlash against Rudy/Roxy is almost everyone throwing criticism has already slept around in casual relationships for most of their adult life. American culture today is saturated with moral degeneracy to the point where adultery is now effectively a right of passage, but these are the same people quickest to throw Rudy under the bus.
I don't want Rudy defended, I just want people to have some self awareness.
I love the comment "Didn't Paul have a history with Lilia like dating a relationship prior to Zenith.... " Answer: Yes but it's not what your thinking... lets move on! lol Change the subject.
"Well, let's enjoy each other’s company. I hear I'm pretty good at it."
Paul's last words to Lilia in her father's dojo.
I thought the ep was very good, they screwed up, both Roxy and Rudy, they know that, but it's also a fact they love each other, they know they made a mistake of doing it before Sylphy knew and they will wait to see if she approves before becoming a couple, and that was it, right?
I felt bad seeing Roxy in that state, knowing she messed up and having the person she fell in love be an "Impossible love" for her, fortunatelly the GOAT Elinalise helped, for real, i really grew to love Elinalise as a character, i love her true friendship with Rudy
Elinalise is an instinctive woman with no sense of ethics, so it would be dangerous to accept her advice head on.
一晩中鬼の頭を殴り続けた岩柱が念願成就して前世の男になってルーデウスに転生したと思うと少しホッコリする声優ネタになるでしょう(笑)
The more I see this episode, the more disappointed I get at the important details cut or changed. It changes this whole trip back all together, and mischaraterizes both Rudi and Roxy.
Also, cutting Elinalise and Geese talking to Roxy about "a man bedding a woman" can get their head put back tigether. Here, it just sound like it was all Roxy's idea. :/
Also, why no Jirou making it home?!?
It's wild that Roxy literally took advantage of Rudy and people still hate on Rudy because Roxy looks young.
I don't know what dark corner you've seen these comments but i haven't seen such comments, so this is a surprise...
Day5 of asking for cowboy bebop reaction please guys just once read this
3 things that imo should have made it into the episode
1. Roxy learning that Rudeus is married and about to be a father
2. Its been 2-3 weeks of them trying to help Rudy since they got out of the labyrinth
3. Elinalisse was the one that suggested someone close to his heart sleep with Rudy to help him get his emotions together (She didn't want to because she has Cliff and is Sylphie's Grandma, Lilia didn't want to for very obvious reasons, and that only left Roxy, who initially didn't want to), this was literally a last resort and not something everyone was ready and excited to do, which while still wrong, it does give the context that this was a drastic measure for a borderline emergency situation for everyone.
From the perspective of the anime. Its a completely different telling of this part of the story. Do not try to pull "cut content" in like it might be cannon. While the additional content might bring more context, the pacing and tone would be something else entirely. If you knew Roxy knew going into that conversation in the bedroom it would be completely different tone for the rest of the episode. Roxy also says that Geese and Elise decided to leave him alone, nothing else. So the anime is specifically omitting that part of the LN and I would honestly consider that if it wasnt mentioned in the anime it is not cannon for this telling.
Where did the two weeks figure come from? It's been nine days since the hydra fight at the start of the episode.
@@aerostorm_ I personally consider them both "Canon" in the sense that if it's not contradicted then it happened off screen. Since this episode had a clear tone difference, I think that if they ever wanted to they could always "confirm" by doing a flashback giving the context without taking away to what this episode already delivered.
The roxy finding out part is just something I wanted to see come to life in animation.
The planning of sleeping with rudeus because it "softens the blow" (at least imo) of Roxy's reasoning. Since in the anime she seemed a bit more crude, which might be what they were going for, I'm willing to admit/accept that.
Also I believe (don't quote on that) that the anime has the objective of adapting specifically the Light Novel, obviously they can diverge, but if that is the goal, then I'll stick to my "both are cannon until proven otherwise approach"
@@Tounushi I just remember that it was more than a week, and since they don't mention months then it's less than a month, therefore I assumed 2-3 weeks. I didn't remember the specifics, if it was 9 days then that's that.
The anime director dropped the ball on portraying the passage of time while Rudy isolated himself. He should look like he's dying.
in fact，paul did‘t accept liliya as his second wife ，it‘s the adaptation of the anime.
in hte LN he did. Lilia just saw herself as the maid.
Talking without knowing anything
In both the light novel and anime had married and loved Lilia
@@TheRoleplayer40k you are definitely wrong
@@huyiwei-u7t Literally reading the paragraph in the Light Novel now where it says they got married, ya dolt.
Zenith however enforced a rule where Paul couldn't sleep with Lilia again until Zenith and Paul had a third child
But the teleportation incident happened before they ever conceived again.
Maybe read the Novels in whatever your native language is
You guys are seriously some of the most mature/intelligent reactors on the platform. Always enjoyable to watch your reactions and the discussions after.
I think the key is the empathy they display
One of the few reaction that did not yelling and act mad at Rudy or Roxy, but try to thinking in different angle.
Great reaction, that's the kind of reaction I want to watch, to see diff people thinking and try to understand what the author is doing on their way, but not just obsessed with some "JUSTICE" and keep judging the characters' words and deeds.
Especially those who even judged people who provide different views. Sadly so many are putting themselves on a moral high ground and look down on people who thinks differently
if you want to see other reactors who didn't get mad and gave a good perspective, watch "The Brothers Yeo"
Only other reaction of the kind I've seen is the Brothers Yeo channel. Very mature reaction and discussion
Ana gets it. It might be the first female reactor that had a mature/smart take on the matter, that doesn't take it personally and its not completely emotionally incontrollable and spouting out in the mic whatever criticism they have over the situation. Congratulations to Ana. Its definitely good to see someone using their brain every once in a while
I agree wholeheartedly! Another one would be Anime Date Night. Definitely check them out if you want another mature female take on it.
don't mind me, i'm just waiting here to see people come angry at you calling you names and how it turns out, its a whole anime these comment sections heheheh
Agreed. After Adorkable (who usually has a perceptive take on things) from YaboyRockLee could barely contain her disgust and disappointment with this episode, Annas view on it *very* welcome and refreshing. It's nice to see a female reactor who doesn't just go "...this is cheating!" and then completely shuts down for the rest of the episode...
Playing with fire here, but I have to laugh ... I DEFINITELY have noticed a very stark gender split in reactions to what happened in this episode. This might overall be the first channel I've seen whose first instinct was to contextualize what happened by the different moral standards of the setting, and this is a big part of why this channel does analysis so much better than most.
Anna is very smart
I'm glad you guys are mature thinkers. I really felt comfortable watching you guys and not the gossip that heats up the monogamy debate.
Autosave continues to be the GOATed Mushoku Tensei reactors/analysis. Love the sane reactions and analysis at the end.
Yeah, Autosave and JDanime are my favorite MT reactors.
This is why Autosave are the GOAT, Love how they fill in the 'cut content' pretty accurately without help.
The amount of EQ needed to be able to empathize with Rudy in this very unique situation while understanding this is not our real world but another fictional world.
Personally I actually love the changes make to Roxy actions here compare to the novel, it make her more Mature comparative to the novel version. Which it should be since she's Rudy's master and like 40 years older than him. The way the portray how there is a deep connection between Rudy and Roxy but they both trying not to step over the boundary more than they already have is so awesome. Love the 'show don't tell' approach the anime take.
God I hope season 3 will happen, Please season 3 Fall 2025?
What is EQ you mention?
@@agengprabowo9005 probably emotional equivalent of IQ, or just emotional maturity.
You can see her age from many of her interactions being very calm, at least at first, compared to other girls of her appearance that you'd see in anime. What Mushoku Tensei is doing now is a contrast to the "fanservice" and comedy that we now see in a lot of other isekai anime (Re;Zero, and then Mushoku Tensei have inspired many of those tropes) and now says "alright, we had this fun and all, but maybe showing a more serious story is better?". And it does so from the fact that Rudeus is actually maturing, and becoming more serious about the world and people being not NPCs and side characters (look at Ginger, even though she is a side character, she's developed in design, has family, was shown oftentimes and important roles). Toned down his intrusive sexual thoughts and began to understand and desire romantic and personal, character-based connections and relationships, like the marriage to Sylphiette. The incident with Roxy seems to have mirrored that with Eris: a reactor once said that Eris did it from devastation and hopelessness about the future, stopping to care about herself at all. She's not good with words, but you can see that from words like "I don't care what we'll be" when asked about relationship type, and she wanted to cross off the sharing of bed part they promised each other because she wanted to release at least some stress in a combination with her love of Rudeus.
I'm genuinely impressed how these two are able to fill in almost all of the LN details that are left out of the anime.
If you look at the clues, it's not that hard. Most people don't pay that much attention when watching a series/movie and they want it spoonfed to them.
Because “show don’t tell” actualy works in a visual medium. Who would have thought.
these two are really intuitive with the little stuff which is why I like their reactions, they both stop talking when its important an pick up on minor details a lot of other channels miss
I love how in Mushoku Tensei the characters feel so genuine and real. Everyone has their flaws, no one is perfect, but they always try to be the best person they can be. The growth that each one experiences in their own way is something that always manages to move me.
On the other hand, I liked how Rudy was able to go from seeing Roxy purely as an object of adoration, perfect and without any flaws. To realize that what he always felt for her was love, she was literally her first love.
If Rudy didn't listen to the Man-God, he would have met Roxy much earlier. I guess you can call that destiny
@@liatsu1757 Yup, for some reason the man god doesn't want Roxy and Rudeus to be together...
Nice pfp, love that album!
the anime paints a different picture from the source material, more logic and less mental illness. not better just different.
@@jthadcast yeah, I read the novel and loved both approaches. Those are different but none of them seem bad to me. Although the novel is my favorite due to the amount of details and extra content
Just watching how you guys handled the part of Roxy with Rudy, I can now say 100% that you guys are my new favourite reactors. Some times people got to understand that this still a show about a guy that revived in a magic world, not a section to dump all their feelings and insecurities in
5:16 - The way they both pulled back in the chairs and Anna holding onto it. 🤣
Finally you guys are few people who understand about "Use their world standard/PoV". They aren't Millis follower and Sylphiette also suggest Rudy to marry in early episode of this cour (obviously she explain it for different reason)
Man I really love how open minded these two are. Best reaction channel.
i gave every reaction channel you can find on TH-cam a chance, and yet none of them are at your level. i live for these half hour discussions and it makes me happy to see how in depth you go in your theories, it truly shows that you are enjoying the show and not only watching it for the sake of it. at this point i am starting to watch series after series (even those i wouldnt give a chance to sometimes) just so i can see your reaction afterwards, hell rn its 3AM and i stayed up because i have been waiting for this reaction since the episode dropped (and its also the only channel i watch only on my phone because on my pc i have and ad block). really thank you for these reaction, hope you'll hit 100k soon :)
I also recommend Brothers Yeo's reaction on Mushoku Tensei as well! They also shared thoughtful and open-minded comments
One more I like is Psyculturists, it is longer analysis, but even as LN reader it give me some new things to love about Mushoku.
Novel readers should be ashamed all week they have been complaining about skipped content Ben and Ana out here understanding everything without having knowledge of the novel is crazy they are genuinely the smartest reaction channel out there they too good at what they do
It's also funny when cut content was present ever since S1 ep 1 and now they're complaining 😂
To be fair, passing judgment based on top performers is.... questionable.
I'm fine with the cut content mostly, as the show is still several times better than I ever dared dream it would be (I still remember I never wanted it animated because I knew for certain the many potential fanservice moments would get played up and ruin just... everything). But even the best adaptation stood no chance of containing everything, and they do need to get to certain points by certain episodes (Couldn't well end a season on this episode as an example) which demands pacing changes.
With all that said lets not pretend there haven't been a few (just a few) questionable choices, and even outside those, quality content that it would have been nice to see. The culture of Begaritt is an unfortunate casualty of pacing. For many it might have better lubricated current events (malleable family dynamics). It's an acceptable loss, but unfortunate nonetheless. Some people just mourn such things a bit... sloppy.
For every reactors like Ben n Anna I can point out 20 who couldnt do the same. Your point being?
@@ReshapableCompletely agree
Sumimasen!!! Though I recently got into the novels maybe that's why I had the cut hit me so badly 😔😔😔
The author understood that a certain number of people would not accept this episode, but they put a lot of effort into making it more acceptable to a wider audience.
The remarkable aspect of this work is the thorough construction of customs, morals, and ethics in the alternate world, which adds a lot of credibility. Additionally, I think the way characters like Paul and Elinalise, who might cause psychological resistance based on our own ethical standards, are introduced as a lead-up and buffer for this episode is brilliant. This is why I feel it's considered the pinnacle of the "Narou-kei" genre.
I largely agree, but I think this wouldn't have felt so jarring if the resolution to Paul, Zenith and Lillia's relationship had been better explained. Even a couple sentences explaining that Paul had married Lillia in an official capacity would have set this up. I knew how this was gonna go, and I still felt this came out of left field, since polygamous relationships didn't come up anywhere else till now.
One thing I think it was a missed opportunity to build up how relationships works and differs in this world from our world is the mercenary tribe vs succubus in Bergaritt. How women warriors have to have sex with charmed male warriors to free them and the pregnant ones go home to raise the kids and go back to the group when the kid is old enough to survive on their own.
I highly doubt the author gives a single F about how hurt people are over here, he doesn't even bother to check. The anime has changed small things from the very start of the anime not just this episode, so I don't think him or the stuff treated this episode any differently than any other episode.
I hope we get a second MT anime someday because this scene could have been done so much better.
Imagine Rudy after a month without bathing, holed up in a room full of flies and rotting food. Maybe show Rudy's hair falling out or something to indicate malnourishment.
NOW Roxy has to go into there and try bring him back to life.
If the scene had been portrayed with more severity everyone would think Roxy is a hero and just be glad that Rudy is alive.
That actually concerns me. Because trying to reach the wider audience waters down the experience. The characters already felt realistic and heavily flawed in the novels, but I the changes here I'm not so sure was a great idea because Roxy being aggressive was a bit out of character for her and I already like how the difficult subject matter is handled. I just hope no further changes happen.
Idk if you guys know this or not but you two are everybodies favorite Mushoku reactors, the amount of love yall get on Twitter in crazy, even in the Spanish speak Mushoku community, and imo it’s nothing but well deserved🙏🗣️
Always happy to see the best reviewers ply their craft!
Its not odd that you didnt realize Lilia didnt marry Paul. Its frequently discussed in the book that Lilia's guilt/self-worth complex makes her act like a servant. Not terribly healthy, especially because of how it effected Aisha.
Also, its key to recall that polygamy was legal in Japan until 1898. Its much more ingrained in their idea of 'medieval stuff', in much the same way western creators try to make every medieval show about powerful houses under a lord. Where Japan thinks of 'clans ruled by councils' or Chinese think of informal clans that just 'happen' to ace exams for generations as opposed to ingrained nepotism. Its almost an unconsious need to inject a bit of your culture's development and context into something you are TRYING to make foreign.
I need context on Japanese and Chinese clans. I thought they were simply democrasy lite and dark horse stories
@@ryaz4704 It was super democratic! That you married your daughter to your successful coworker, had their son tutored by the best tutored by the previous year's high ranker and the kid scored extremely well to get a cushy gig was a coincidence! That this is the norm is merely that you studied harder and had better karma! We totally aren't nepotistic, Jim in accounting was a country peasant!
Irony aside, ancient chinese dynasties went through dramatic attempts to look meritocratic but in practice the exams were heavily slanted on knowing specific texts with the right answer. It was a rigged game where a very smart handful of peasants getting a low ranking job was the proof of fairness. Powerful families still functionally had power but they pretended they were self-made and every rival family were the nepotistic ones. It was like the worst extremes of modern universities on crack.
@@curiousinquisitor59 I said democrasy lite as a joke to how they still held voting but only internally between the higher ups. But thanks for the context. I think I saw something similar to what you've explained in the anime Apothecary Diaries
Not polygamy. Polygyny. Polyandry which is the other type of polygamy was illegal in Japan and the rest of the world as well. You have to search quite hard to find a single country/empire/civilization that allowed polyandry. And that's mainly because of our biology as humans.
一夫多妻制への捉え方が多くの日本人より柔軟で嬉しかったです。
世界が違えば常識も異なるということへの理解力が高い！
+1 no solo entre Japoneses!
Por eso estos chicos son los mejores
Not in other world even, in our world it was prevalent during the medieval era and still exists and accepted culturally in certain parts of the world. What matters the most is consenting adult agreeing to the relationship.
First at all, the author confessed that he was forced to make changes to make more "acceptable".
We can understand skip content for time matters, but change a character, it's concerning.
Roxy is a social fool, being so "aggressive", it doesn't make sense at all, for her character, while in the novel she was babbling nonsenses.
After Roxy hugs Rudeus, she tried to put some distance but Rudeus pulls toward to her because he felt calm when he heard Roxy’s hearts beats.
The novel is more about emotions in that moment, principaly frustration, Roxy received all that night, less affection.
For most of people that isn't important but it is. Of course, I never hoped a 1:1 adaptation, but change things for bad that is other thing.
This is why Autosave is my fave reactor! ❤️ I always look forward to their post discussion and it never disappoints!