I am somewhat left-leaning, but I don't actively speak against doctrines or policies of the church. If someone does promote viewpoints that are blatantly contrary to church positions, they should probably seek employment elsewhere. Otherwise, I love that there is diversity of thought within the Church.
Diversity of thought is not what they're after. They want control of speech and thought. My little brothers and sister told me to never speak to them again, and they blocked me because I shared an agnostic message with them. That is the left in America. They have ZERO intent on working with anyone, and they never have. That's why they started temper tantrums after the election, shaving their heads like fools and telling family members they never want to see them again. The fact of the matter is this: today's Democrat Party and the entire left itself is its own satanic religion. Care to defend abortion? It's a satanic act. Period. I've killed for this country, and I STILL feel like I'm not worthy to enter the temple, no matter how many times I repent. Now, how much forgiveness do you think those who committed abortion will get? That's the problem with the left. They want actions without consequences. Let me be perfectly clear here: there is NO diversity of thought where Christ is concerned; BYU is an LDS school. Therefore, it's a Christian-based school. As such, there should be NO diversity of thought from staff contrary to that. They can work at the University of Utah if they don't like it.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you BYU!! It’s time to start setting the example of the Church! This is a private religious institution. If you want your kids to be indoctrinated send them to a public university. We need to stop sending mixed messages.
saying secular universities "indoctrinate" our kids when talking about BYU is comedy gold having every class try to promote belief and requiring weekly church attendance and not allowing students to express views contrary to the church is like, the definition of indoctrination
@ that is why they are going to BYU!! It’s a choice. That’s why its professors should not be allowed to be contrary to church doctrine. I sent my child there to uphold our beliefs. If I wanted something different we would have sent them elsewhere.
I DO think you do a great job bridging gaps and bringing ppl together! YOU are needed for this right now! Elder Anderson is so right what he said to you!
I think it’s totally fair. l don’t think BYU is trying to purge any individual’s personal actions or leanings. Parents pay to send their children to BYU to reinforce their orthodox beliefs. The professors that should be let go are the ones that we all know are trying and succeeding at cramming their own progressive views down the throats of students-views which are contrary to LDS Doctrine. This is appalling!! Thank goodness BYU is getting their act together. Thank goodness parents can begin to fully trust BYU again.
I am coming to this conversation very late, as I tune in only periodically. I just want everyone to know that Elder Cook our current Apostle was my stake president in San Francisco Bay area in the Mid 1980s, during the AIDs epidemic. I also served as a counselor in the bishopric during this time. President Cook went out of his way to make sure that those that were "Gay" were looked after. He wanted the church to be a safe place where people could grow. There were many Gay members serving in callings within the church, including bishoprics. I think that many people are mis-informed about their believe that our church preaches "hate". Although I have found that some individual members may have difficulties with prejudices Many people were dying because there were not any drugs available at that time. Many of us served as caretakers or sat to provide comfort and conversation as they were suffering in their final days, often we attempted to arrange someone to be present 24 hours in shifts so they would not die alone. Quite a few of these members apprreciated the outreach from the church members even though they had not been to an LDS ward or church meeting in many years. I personally learned a lot by having this experience. Having previously worked at BYU in administration, there are sometimes incorrect things that happen. However, I have also been one to speak out. I have found that most of the time mistakes are corrected if articulated and brought to light. No institutition is perfect, but, I have found that most of the time there are good people in the Administration structure who will intervene. BYU does have it's standards and so does the Church. I know many people do try to live by those standards even though there are difficulties in doing so.
One of the questions asked to be a student at a Lds school asks if they have any views or support groups who’s views are contrary to those of the church and yet there’s faculty that openly support and mock that principle . The fact that this is a shock to people baffles me, it should have been done a long time ago. In fact it never should have allowed to get to this point in the first place. I hope this is true and that church leadership are finally taking a stand.
I doubt it's about having your politics conservative, with the exception of LGQTB issues, the family proclamation, etc. also there are some that teach evolution and things in such a dogmatic way as if to totally dismiss the Biblical account. There have been excesses on the progressive side at BYU, where professors have spoken out against the Church's views. I think the Church, and BYU have tried recently to accommodate liberal views on some things, but there is a place where the Church has draw the line.
@squirrelicis curious...I saw that video and do you think that professor tore it up because it was the Family Proclamation or because the student put something on his door and he was already angry or lost control of his emotions a bit and so tore it up not knowing it was until after when the student was saying he's tearing up the Family Proclamation? By then he was over the line and projected onto the student before shutting the door. He lost control for sure, but I wasn't sure if he knew initially it was the Family Proclamation.
I'll be honest with you that I don't really like the tenure system very much. People like Jonathan Kozol and others had reported years ago that if someone reached tenure in an educational system they could sometimes be unfit for the job, be unable to actually do a job, and go to a school and fall asleep in class, not teach and be UNABLE to be removed from the job. There are many places where tenure can be abused very easily. But I would not remove someone from position based on age. Another interesting pov is that sometimes people want older workers now because the generation after millennials and some millennials are so woke and so BAD at work ethic that many companies would rather hire old people than young people. And some of them greatly fear younger workers because of them not wanting to do anything except talk on the phone or with their friends while collecting an hourly wage.
And for those of you pointing out that BYU is a private institution let me remind you that nearly all the finances of BYU derive from the faithful tithing payments of common members of the church. Legally, the President of the Church owns it all: legally he could take ALL of the church money and spend it however he wants to. Currently, the 12 & 1st Presidency control all the finances of BYU, as they should. But--in addition to this they also insist that their actions cannot even be QUESTIONED publicly (yes you can have private questions as long as you don't tell anyone else about it). This level of control seems to me to be totally inappropriate. A lot of the frustration of common members is that there is literally no faithful platform that members can use to criticize church leaders (as Oaks has reminded us "it's wrong to criticize church leaders, even if the criticism is TRUE").
I recently had an experience where I became critical of local church leaders. I now understand the message that Satan is the father of contention and the Spirit leaves when contention enters, even if we’re right. I had to abandon my contentious feeling for the Spirit to return. Once I did that, I could barely understand what I was upset about in the first place. Every “cause” I had against the church leaders simply melted away. When we turn our heats over to Christ, the spirit of contention has no place within us.
Also when hearing the comments you read, it’s a constant “I wouldn’t send my child to a school that..” yet 99% of college students are likely 18 when they enter & these are adults? It’s so curious to hear parents talking about these students like they’re in junior high and they can influence the principal or community council and they have a choice where they send their child. If you talk to other groups of parents about their kids and where they’re going to college it’s more like “my child is interested in a school that…or My child says they value…” so interesting to hear so many parents speaking on behalf of their adult children, as if they are in elementary school.
Like Elder Holland, I’ve been shocked by the indoctrination on LGB and gender at BYU for several years. I was so relieved when Reese was hired and hoped to see change. Thank you for bringing this good news. Your use of the term “playbook” is silly. Church leaders don’t follow each others “playbook.“ if you’re saying church leaders historically try to keep doctrine and institutions pure, then yes. Obviously. That’s literally what their job is.
I need more information. I see nothing wrong with a progressive or gay supporting professor being at BYU if they are teaching math, physics, history, ect. I can't see any real case of a progressive person promoting their pet issues in a discussion on say physics. If its a course where controversial subject matter is likely to come up, then I can see a possible problem. BYU needs to be distinct from other universities. If one wants to get the progressive and LBGT stuff, they can go to a thousand places in the US. BYU does not need to become like a California state school type institution. The biggest problem I see is if I was still at BYU and a professor said things that were against the standards of the Church, could I as a student feel comfortable to push back without fear of having a problem with grades? The professor/student relationship often is not balanced and students may be intimidated to not respond to things the professor is saying. As a conservative parent and if I have my kid at BYU, I want the education for them that I got a BYU. If I wanted my kid to be exposed to a lot of progressive stuff, I would send him elsewhere. I just wonder how much of this stuff is being talked about in class anyway. I still wonder is the administration trying to fix a problem that really is not that bad.
Part of the problem is that LGBTQ kids are actively funneled toward BYU under the belief that they can overcome that part of themselves, and the sad reality is that most of them do not, and by the time they figure that out they’ve already spent a couple years at BYU and don’t have an easy way out or through. There have been and will continue to be instance of self harm. It’s avoidable and nothing short of tragic.
They don't leave it at that. Not ONE liberal or gay professor can EVER leave it to themselves. Period. I went in 2013-2016 to the University of Wisconsin after the Army, and they still push it there. It does not end. They constantly PUSH it in colleges.
There are of course two sides to this coin. Full disclosure, I am on the progressive side of things. On the one hand, any private religious educational institution has the right to hire staff that actively support the doctrines of the church. On the other hand, progressive people within any given church can continue to work from within to advocate for more progressive stances in the organization. How each person decides to do this is entirely up to them. All religious revelations are based and centered around love and so many organized religious organizations abandon this for rigid non-evolving doctrine. How sad. People will increasingly find it difficult to adhere to religious organizations that do mental and emotional harm to a portion of their membership. More dialogue and mutual respect and understanding are needed.
Interesting that there’s more of a push now than previously. What do you think is making that push? & even for departments like chemistry, which follow a rigid curriculum & sensitive subjects don’t come up? Except evolution, but they don’t pass a letter out anymore? Curious, I know they’ve had a gymnastics coach and current track coach that are not LDS and has there been a football coach too? You mentioned LGBQ issues as one of the reasons there’s a purge. Statistically within a coach’s lifetime, they will have been fellow athletes along side LGBQ or coached LGBQ athletes so do they check Into coaches views or only professors? I’d argue a coach’s influence is greater.
Is all this hate for gays and trans people justified in any way? The Lord didn't teach hate. The Bible and BOM don't teach hate. Should teachers, etc, lose their jobs because they don't whom you hate? This whole matter is disgusting.
"Hate" is a pretext, and a slur to obsure the actual message, in order to tar and feather the messengers. The fact is, the Mormon church and BYU have policies, and moral doctrines in place that are set in stone. Therefore, it is logical to clamp down on the rogue faculty and students at BYU who deliberately stand in opposition to the moral law.
It's not an act of hatred to maintain standards that are commensurate with gospel principles. Pride in sin, and celebration of sin, are incompatible with an institution established to support the faith of the followers of Jesus Christ. "Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life."
This has absolutely nothing to do with hate and that is a ridiculous deception. It has to do with love, truth, and righteousness. It is a complete deception and misunderstanding of love to claim that accepting LGBTQ is love. Do we love the person, yes, of course, but true Christlike love, true charity requires that we teach clearly against the sin that will destroy a person. Christ loved the adulterer which is why he told her to go her way and sin no more. This LGBTQ ideology is the greatest threat to the kingdom of God and man’s ability to return to him that this church and society has ever seen. Truly this evil is called good while the good of marriage, family, and the union of husband and wife is called evil.
I'm glad. It's about time the Church's flagship university is supported by faculty that upholds and supports Doctrine and leadership
It's a private, religious school. I believe all private special mission schools should be true to their stated missions whatever that may be.
if their mission involves promoting harmful beliefs it deserves criticism
I am somewhat left-leaning, but I don't actively speak against doctrines or policies of the church. If someone does promote viewpoints that are blatantly contrary to church positions, they should probably seek employment elsewhere. Otherwise, I love that there is diversity of thought within the Church.
Diversity of thought is not what they're after. They want control of speech and thought. My little brothers and sister told me to never speak to them again, and they blocked me because I shared an agnostic message with them. That is the left in America. They have ZERO intent on working with anyone, and they never have. That's why they started temper tantrums after the election, shaving their heads like fools and telling family members they never want to see them again. The fact of the matter is this: today's Democrat Party and the entire left itself is its own satanic religion. Care to defend abortion? It's a satanic act. Period. I've killed for this country, and I STILL feel like I'm not worthy to enter the temple, no matter how many times I repent. Now, how much forgiveness do you think those who committed abortion will get?
That's the problem with the left. They want actions without consequences. Let me be perfectly clear here: there is NO diversity of thought where Christ is concerned; BYU is an LDS school. Therefore, it's a Christian-based school. As such, there should be NO diversity of thought from staff contrary to that. They can work at the University of Utah if they don't like it.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you BYU!! It’s time to start setting the example of the Church! This is a private religious institution. If you want your kids to be indoctrinated send them to a public university. We need to stop sending mixed messages.
saying secular universities "indoctrinate" our kids when talking about BYU is comedy gold
having every class try to promote belief and requiring weekly church attendance and not allowing students to express views contrary to the church is like, the definition of indoctrination
@ that is why they are going to BYU!! It’s a choice. That’s why its professors should not be allowed to be contrary to church doctrine. I sent my child there to uphold our beliefs. If I wanted something different we would have sent them elsewhere.
I DO think you do a great job bridging gaps and bringing ppl together! YOU are needed for this right now! Elder Anderson is so right what he said to you!
I think it’s totally fair.
l don’t think BYU is trying to purge any individual’s personal actions or leanings.
Parents pay to send their children to BYU to reinforce their orthodox beliefs.
The professors that should be let go are the ones that we all know are trying and succeeding at cramming their own progressive views down the throats of students-views which are contrary to LDS Doctrine.
This is appalling!!
Thank goodness BYU is getting their act together.
Thank goodness parents can begin to fully trust BYU again.
I am coming to this conversation very late, as I tune in only periodically. I just want everyone to know that Elder Cook our current Apostle was my stake president in San Francisco Bay area in the Mid 1980s, during the AIDs epidemic. I also served as a counselor in the bishopric during this time. President Cook went out of his way to make sure that those that were "Gay" were looked after. He wanted the church to be a safe place where people could grow. There were many Gay members serving in callings within the church, including bishoprics. I think that many people are mis-informed about their believe that our church preaches "hate". Although I have found that some individual members may have difficulties with prejudices
Many people were dying because there were not any drugs available at that time. Many of us served as caretakers or sat to provide comfort and conversation as they were suffering in their final days, often we attempted to arrange someone to be present 24 hours in shifts so they would not die alone. Quite a few of these members apprreciated the outreach from the church members even though they had not been to an LDS ward or church meeting in many years. I personally learned a lot by having this experience.
Having previously worked at BYU in administration, there are sometimes incorrect things that happen. However, I have also been one to speak out. I have found that most of the time mistakes are corrected if articulated and brought to light. No institutition is perfect, but, I have found that most of the time there are good people in the Administration structure who will intervene. BYU does have it's standards and so does the Church. I know many people do try to live by those standards even though there are difficulties in doing so.
One of the questions asked to be a student at a Lds school asks if they have any views or support groups who’s views are contrary to those of the church and yet there’s faculty that openly support and mock that principle . The fact that this is a shock to people baffles me, it should have been done a long time ago. In fact it never should have allowed to get to this point in the first place. I hope this is true and that church leadership are finally taking a stand.
Absolutely!!
Jesus would also answer this question with a "I love an support the LGBTQ community" that and the beard prevent him from attending or teaching at BYU?
BYU pres Reese said in his inaugural messages to faculty that upholding church doctrine and principles would be considered in employment
I doubt it's about having your politics conservative, with the exception of LGQTB issues, the family proclamation, etc. also there are some that teach evolution and things in such a dogmatic way as if to totally dismiss the Biblical account. There have been excesses on the progressive side at BYU, where professors have spoken out against the Church's views. I think the Church, and BYU have tried recently to accommodate liberal views on some things, but there is a place where the Church has draw the line.
It has to do with the liberal professor who tore up the Family Proclamation after Trump won.
@squirrelicis curious...I saw that video and do you think that professor tore it up because it was the Family Proclamation or because the student put something on his door and he was already angry or lost control of his emotions a bit and so tore it up not knowing it was until after when the student was saying he's tearing up the Family Proclamation? By then he was over the line and projected onto the student before shutting the door. He lost control for sure, but I wasn't sure if he knew initially it was the Family Proclamation.
I'd like to see you interview Jordan B Peterson. He can give you details about ideological discrimination.
I'll be honest with you that I don't really like the tenure system very much. People like Jonathan Kozol and others had reported years ago that if someone reached tenure in an educational system they could sometimes be unfit for the job, be unable to actually do a job, and go to a school and fall asleep in class, not teach and be UNABLE to be removed from the job. There are many places where tenure can be abused very easily.
But I would not remove someone from position based on age.
Another interesting pov is that sometimes people want older workers now because the generation after millennials and some millennials are so woke and so BAD at work ethic that many companies would rather hire old people than young people. And some of them greatly fear younger workers because of them not wanting to do anything except talk on the phone or with their friends while collecting an hourly wage.
Well they elected trump!
Who is they?
And for those of you pointing out that BYU is a private institution let me remind you that nearly all the finances of BYU derive from the faithful tithing payments of common members of the church. Legally, the President of the Church owns it all: legally he could take ALL of the church money and spend it however he wants to. Currently, the 12 & 1st Presidency control all the finances of BYU, as they should. But--in addition to this they also insist that their actions cannot even be QUESTIONED publicly (yes you can have private questions as long as you don't tell anyone else about it). This level of control seems to me to be totally inappropriate. A lot of the frustration of common members is that there is literally no faithful platform that members can use to criticize church leaders (as Oaks has reminded us "it's wrong to criticize church leaders, even if the criticism is TRUE").
I recently had an experience where I became critical of local church leaders. I now understand the message that Satan is the father of contention and the Spirit leaves when contention enters, even if we’re right. I had to abandon my contentious feeling for the Spirit to return. Once I did that, I could barely understand what I was upset about in the first place. Every “cause” I had against the church leaders simply melted away. When we turn our heats over to Christ, the spirit of contention has no place within us.
Also when hearing the comments you read, it’s a constant “I wouldn’t send my child to a school that..” yet 99% of college students are likely 18 when they enter & these are adults? It’s so curious to hear parents talking about these students like they’re in junior high and they can influence the principal or community council and they have a choice where they send their child. If you talk to other groups of parents about their kids and where they’re going to college it’s more like “my child is interested in a school that…or My child says they value…” so interesting to hear so many parents speaking on behalf of their adult children, as if they are in elementary school.
One reason I follow this channel is because Steve often breaks the major Mormon news stories. 👏
Why was there no outcry when Universities suppressed any views that challenge social justice ideology?
Yeah! Where is the outcry against justice! Something we all know is bad!
Because most social justice ideology is correct 😊
Like Elder Holland, I’ve been shocked by the indoctrination on LGB and gender at BYU for several years. I was so relieved when Reese was hired and hoped to see change. Thank you for bringing this good news. Your use of the term “playbook” is silly. Church leaders don’t follow each others “playbook.“ if you’re saying church leaders historically try to keep doctrine and institutions pure, then yes. Obviously. That’s literally what their job is.
I need more information. I see nothing wrong with a progressive or gay supporting professor being at BYU if they are teaching math, physics, history, ect. I can't see any real case of a progressive person promoting their pet issues in a discussion on say physics. If its a course where controversial subject matter is likely to come up, then I can see a possible problem. BYU needs to be distinct from other universities. If one wants to get the progressive and LBGT stuff, they can go to a thousand places in the US. BYU does not need to become like a California state school type institution.
The biggest problem I see is if I was still at BYU and a professor said things that were against the standards of the Church, could I as a student feel comfortable to push back without fear of having a problem with grades? The professor/student relationship often is not balanced and students may be intimidated to not respond to things the professor is saying. As a conservative parent and if I have my kid at BYU, I want the education for them that I got a BYU. If I wanted my kid to be exposed to a lot of progressive stuff, I would send him elsewhere. I just wonder how much of this stuff is being talked about in class anyway. I still wonder is the administration trying to fix a problem that really is not that bad.
Part of the problem is that LGBTQ kids are actively funneled toward BYU under the belief that they can overcome that part of themselves, and the sad reality is that most of them do not, and by the time they figure that out they’ve already spent a couple years at BYU and don’t have an easy way out or through. There have been and will continue to be instance of self harm. It’s avoidable and nothing short of tragic.
They don't leave it at that. Not ONE liberal or gay professor can EVER leave it to themselves. Period. I went in 2013-2016 to the University of Wisconsin after the Army, and they still push it there. It does not end. They constantly PUSH it in colleges.
There are of course two sides to this coin. Full disclosure, I am on the progressive side of things. On the one hand, any private religious educational institution has the right to hire staff that actively support the doctrines of the church. On the other hand, progressive people within any given church can continue to work from within to advocate for more progressive stances in the organization. How each person decides to do this is entirely up to them. All religious revelations are based and centered around love and so many organized religious organizations abandon this for rigid non-evolving doctrine. How sad. People will increasingly find it difficult to adhere to religious organizations that do mental and emotional harm to a portion of their membership. More dialogue and mutual respect and understanding are needed.
Interesting that there’s more of a push now than previously. What do you think is making that push? & even for departments like chemistry, which follow a rigid curriculum & sensitive subjects don’t come up? Except evolution, but they don’t pass a letter out anymore?
Curious, I know they’ve had a gymnastics coach and current track coach that are not LDS and has there been a football coach too? You mentioned LGBQ issues as one of the reasons there’s a purge. Statistically within a coach’s lifetime, they will have been fellow athletes along side LGBQ or coached LGBQ athletes so do they check Into coaches views or only professors? I’d argue a coach’s influence is greater.
Isn’t Cultural Hall the creator that makes satirical videos about the Church?
Steve, you don't come across as very neutral on this topic.
Thanks for your input. Do you feel I was critical of the Church?
@@MormonBookReviews No, just clearly supportive of one position over the other (understandably so).
No, sure doesn’t
Im ashamed that BYU is my alma mater. I wonder if this is ramping up because D. Oaks is some what in charge.
Everything happening recently in the church/BYU has Oaks fingers all over it
Wasn't D. Oaks the President of BYU back in 1980 or something?
Why are you ashamed that BYU is your alma mater? Do you also not support Elder Oaks?
Yes, he was President of BYU. I think it was 80s.
President Oaks was BYU President in the early 1970s. I was a student at BYU at that time.
I like that there are differing views expressed in the comments- everyone here is doing good work to depolarize.
there is also a hiring freeze at byu, at least for a bit
What is the difference between the mainline direction and the progressive direction?
HUGE difference. If you don't know, I suggest you drop everything and find out!
@@thelegacygeneration5502 Can you explain the difference? How do I determine the difference?
Is it too controlling?
I spelled matre but my ph changed to mater.
Is all this hate for gays and trans people justified in any way? The Lord didn't teach hate. The Bible and BOM don't teach hate. Should teachers, etc, lose their jobs because they don't whom you hate? This whole matter is disgusting.
The word "disgusting" summarizes the church/BYU perfectly
Has nothing to do with hate. Is called standard a.
"Hate" is a pretext, and a slur to obsure the actual message, in order to tar and feather the messengers.
The fact is, the Mormon church and BYU have policies, and moral doctrines in place that are set in stone. Therefore, it is logical to clamp down on the rogue faculty and
students at BYU who deliberately stand in opposition to the moral law.
It's not an act of hatred to maintain standards that are commensurate with gospel principles. Pride in sin, and celebration of sin, are incompatible with an institution established to support the faith of the followers of Jesus Christ.
"Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life."
This has absolutely nothing to do with hate and that is a ridiculous deception. It has to do with love, truth, and righteousness. It is a complete deception and misunderstanding of love to claim that accepting LGBTQ is love. Do we love the person, yes, of course, but true Christlike love, true charity requires that we teach clearly against the sin that will destroy a person. Christ loved the adulterer which is why he told her to go her way and sin no more. This LGBTQ ideology is the greatest threat to the kingdom of God and man’s ability to return to him that this church and society has ever seen. Truly this evil is called good while the good of marriage, family, and the union of husband and wife is called evil.