MOFI Michael Jackson - Thriller - One-Step Ultradisc compared to the original LP. Does it Beat It?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ย. 2022
- Comparing the stunning @Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab One-Step Ultradisc pressing of Michael Jackson's Thriller with the UK original first pressing. Does it sound as good as hoped?
Does it really Beat It?
Many thanks to David Brook at the vinyl adventure.com for getting this out to me so quickly.
It's in stock now! While stocks last, at: www.thevinyladventure.com/pro...
What a great detailed review (as usual). This has made me even more excited to receive my copy ❤
I'm glad you enjoyed my review Paul. Thanks.
I can breathe a sigh of relief! This is such a necessary record for me. As a tangent it’s funny you mention Paul McCartney. His singing in this reminds me of a sting and shaggy song called don’t make me wait. Just the punch in Paul’s delivery. Beautiful elements. Thanks for the review
You're welcome DMD, thanks for your comments.
I thoroughly enjoyed your review. Very descriptive, thoughtful and through. Thank you.
@DJGT I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for your positive feedback.
Great review again! Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for your comment
Thank you for this review Dave, it is a relief to hear this record lives up to their claims! Looking forward to hearing for myself.
Thanks for your feedback! Hope you get to hear it soon.
Wonderful review, thank you Dave!
Thanks Babar!
The original album was released exactly 40 years ago at the end of November 1982 and entered the UK album chart on December 11th. It took around 14 weeks to reach the No1 spot. The US release was in January 1983 and eventually hit No1 on Billboard just a week before the UK. It still sounds great today.
Thanks for this, Moutton Noir.
Wasn't the USA release at the end of November 1982, too, and not in January 1983?
Good info and take Dave. My copy is delivering today. I’m pretty excited to get it on the turntable.
Cool. I am sure you'll enjoy. Do report back!
Cant wait to listen my copy is coming in the mail today!
Enjoy it MicMan!
I miss the days when we had albums that had the lyrics inside on the sleeve. A shame all that is gone 😢
I agree with you Andrew, either lyrics inside the gatefold or on the inner sleeve. I find the 'now playing' stands people use to display the record cover mildly amusing: the sleeve of the record playing was generally in my lap, while I read the lyrics, who played what instruments, where it was recorded etc etc etc... That was one of my pet hates about CD: silly little books far too small to see properly even if you did manage to extract them from their plastic cage in one piece.
Such a legendary album by a legendary artist. Its not my favourite mj album (that would be either Of The Wall or HIStory) but it deserves this massive upgrade. The world's biggest selling album deserves to be presented in the best format possible.
Absolutely!
For me Thriller is my best favorite album because all the songs are done exceptionally well the other one is Off The wall...Anyone doing vinyl collection Thriller and Off the wall is a must have
Hi @@jamesikumi3378, I'd also add Bad to this formidable twosome. Although Thriller is the absolute number one, in my opinion.
@@DaveDenyer You are right I forgot to mention BAD also because I have all three Lp's original pressing
@@DaveDenyer not sure if will see this comment but Dangerous is also a wonderful album. It’s a much different style from Thriller.
I would argue that dangerous is his best work in many respects. Including lyrics, melody’s, and his overall voice. He was exceptional singer, making him one of the best considering his range of vocal abilities.
Aloha Dave
Thank you for your review,
I found this review very informative. Now hopefully I can purchase one in Honolulu Hawaii.
Mahalo Ed
Aloha Ed, I do really hope you can get one in Hawaii. Good luck!
Thanks for the review!
You're most welcome.
Great video. I’ve been umming and ahing over this for a couple of weeks, purely because of the price…. But you’ve sold it to me.
I’ll be purchasing it asap. Early Xmas present to myself haha. Thanks.
Glad I could help! Happy Christmas ;-)
Best and far and foremost not biased review so far. Thank you for that!
Thanks downtownberlin. Glad you enjoyed it!
I enjoyed your unrushed review. Thank you for the dedication to compare both with such attentiveness. Glad to hear a straight take from ears on a great system, acknowledging even biases... Excellent. I'll be back (again) for more. I've been waiting for mine #3095 and have only been able to give it one listen... which I will remedy today with another close listen. Peace to you.
Thanks so much Jeff, I'm really glad you enjoyed my video, and I hope you enjoy your record.
Hi Dave, this is honestly my favorite review of this release. I am enjoying my MoFi one step of Thriller very much.
Great to hear!
Thanks for this review! I preordered this when it was announced, then cancelled it due to *that controversy* (which was never about the potential sound of it - it was the lack of honesty coupled with a thin apology and not a lot else). Re-preorded it (which is not a word) after some amazing reviews - but only because I found it considerably cheaper. I would not have paid that same amount for it. Glad it sounds amazing, now looking forward to it again. What a palaver!
Hi Dan, I totally get your point regarding the controversy, however there is a bonus: you came up with 're-preordered', love it! Thanks.
I love the "canvas" analogy, great way to put audio art!
Thank you! Cheers!
I can't wait to get mine
Great!
Great wording: "canvas", "digital suitcase"; really like those visual words that tell a richer story. Cheers!
Thanks for your positive feedback!
I’ve never seen a record player like that. Must have cost a fortune
Probably tens of thousands. No exaggeration.
Cheap if you really love music
My previous copies of Mofi One Step Vinyl discs have been superb. I cant wait to get my copy of Thriller.
You won't be disappointed Paul!
@@DaveDenyer Excellent thankyou Dave.
I'm really happy with it, the stereo separation is so clear.
@ecam66, glad you like it too.
Thanks for the comparison. I've now listened to it a couple of times, and I find that the music has become more delicate; every little detail is so clearly distilled. I had to get used to it. Also, I find Michael's vocal not as determined as I've been used to hearing on this album. Almost a bit insecure. You are right, though; the whole sounds very, very natural. It is just a totally different experience than what I've been used to hearing for the last forty years!
I'm so pleased you're enjoying it. It's a very different experience.
Hi Dave. Thorough review as usual - thanks. I have since found most music created/recorded in the 80's to be harsh, bright and lacking any real depth on my current system. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the music from 30-40 years ago. However, 40 years later, MOFI have the luxury of (as you say) almost starting with a blank canvas, utilising up to date digital technology to apply filters, etc to presumably clean up the harsh sound and give more detail to the mid and low frequency soundscapes. Personally I am not a Michael Jackson fan, but my wife is, so I may just have to place an order with MCRU! :-)
Hi Dave, I may be wrong here (I need to rewatch the'In Groove's video of when he visited MOFI), but I don't think MOFI have used any digital processing: filters etc. I think they just used DSDx4 to make an 'exact' copy of the original 1/2" 30ips master and then back at the cutting room apply far less analogue EQ, compression etc. partly as an 'audiophile' vs. 'dance' (loudness wars) aesthetic decision, and partly by virtue of the quality of the pressing process they don't have to.
But either way, I'm sure C. would appreciate it. And being a man with a high end SACD player, why not buy the MOFI One-Step vinyl and SACD, now that would be an interesting comparison...
I am sure you are correct Dave. I still standby my opinion of 80s music, in that a lot of it was purposely engineered bright, harsh and loud as part of the early digital revolution. Good idea on the SACD / Ultradisc AB test! 👍
I am looking forward to getting my copy now after listening to your review! From what I have been reading along with a couple TH-cam reviews, you guys all seem to being saying the same thing, more or less so that sounds promising! I did read a story on Analogue Planet where John Wood from Mofi was quoted as saying they'll do a 45 RPM of this at some point but did not state if that was a One-Step or not. Cheers!
That's interesting Dean, having heard this, I'm starting to wonder if they'd do 33rpm Onestep versions of some of the 45rpm One-Steps they've done. They take up a lot less space and are still great-sounding records.
Wow what a lovely review!
Thanks. 🙏
I appreciate that you got tape experience also and are able to make a judgement on the DSD part and what that do or don't do to the sound.
So as I understand it that in this example and the 4xDSD. That it has no negative effects and probably the opposite. That the 4xDSD were able to preserve the notion/feeling from the master tape over to and back to analog into the vinyl.
Or in other words nothing were "lost" in that "transfer".
Anyway I got very incline to want to buy a copy.. when it is less clipped or as I translate that more dynamic with quieter quiet parts. And of course sounding as it "should".
But it is a very steep premium to pay for a record.
Thanks again! 💞🎵🎶🎼
Thanks Optimize. I'm really glad you liked my review.
guys as I said before we would know more on dsd vs direct cut from analog if it was done that way now we can only compare dsd cut to original one, if that record was cut directly from analog tape it could of sound much better than dsd cut
@@audioguy67 why? Do you think that.
"if that record was cut directly from analog tape it could of sound much better than dsd cut"
It is not that simple that we get a record that sounds like the tape if we use the tape. It is wishful thinking! Let me explain:
The DSD cut can (and most likely will) sound better than the direct cut from the analog tape.
For example a direct cut from the analog tape you get what you get. (And that is what we THINK we are getting a untampered perfect copy that is NOT the case.)
Meaning when there is weaknesses in the record manufacturing process then we natural get all "those" sound quality degradations of all the process steps.
Remember that the lathe machine cutting can't ADD "sound quality" into the lacquer. Something will get lost or added artifacts that were not in the source.
Some audiophiles keep track on who is doing the plating (metal parts) that indicates that again that something will get lost or added artifacts that were not in the source. Depending on who is plating apperently. When we can can use lower current for longer time in the bath to attract the smallest particles that follow the lacquer grove the best for example and other techniques.
Then what plastic is used there is different variants and also blends of them. We know they can be more or less noisy again just lost and more noticeable added artifacts that were not in the source.
(And there is many more factors but just to mention a few.)
Now when we know some of the weaknesses of the record production for the format and that will also seen as limitations. (Most record pressing plants remove some source information as very high pitched sounds due to the format limitations in the manufacturing process but I am deviate to much here.)
Anyway we see now that just all the different record production steps to make a LP will alter in practice the frequency reproduction that were in the source.
The record labels know that too, when they try to find the least harmful manufacturing processes that preserve sound quality the most.
For example they try: DMM, Half speed and one step to name a few that point clearly towards that the record production is a lossy process (just like MP3 is a lossy format, that means in practice we can never go backwards in the process and get a copy of the source and it is a physical copy protection.. oh now I am off topic again 😂).
Either if it DSD or tape that is the source we still of course need to go through the production process to get a LP..
But if we could counter unavoidable frequency response changes that the production process is forcefully giving us by its nature when we make a LP.
For example the DSD file (or the tape for that matter) will not sound the same as the LP does from that DSD file. (Just as the first pressed LP and the #500 LP copy will not be the same with slightly wear of the stampers)
That difference is EXACTLY what LP production is messing up the sound quality.
For clarity we can take a made up example that LP record production remove X dB in the range y Hz to z kHz.
Then MOFI can just ADD to the DSD file that X dB in the range y Hz to z kHz.
And the lost fidelity is somewhat compensated/restored/preserve or call it whatever.
The main thing is that with DSD file optimization are we able to do easier to counter the LP production sound quality losses.
So the end product record will be able to sound more like the source!
If we realize that then we can argue that that using DSD file and compensate for record processing sound quality degradations. Will make the final record sound more like the tape master if we compared them!
Now we can also go beyond that and MFSL engineers can also add their own preferred frequency response (tonal balance). In the DSD file and not just to compensate production process weaknesses. That is another subject..
Anyway how does MFSL engineers determine how much (dB) they should alter and in what areas (frequency)?
That process is called test pressings.
They have the original DSD file from that, they know exactly how the master tape sounds! (Remember WE will never get that DSD file on the market.) 😔
Now they can send that file so the do a test pressing.
They get the test pressing and can compare what is gone in the LP compared to what they supplied (DSD file) to the pressing plant.
Then they optimize (compensate for the "X dB in the range y Hz to z kHz") a COPY of the DSD file and send that copy to the pressing plant. And get a test pressing back of that DSD file copy.
And can now compare the ORIGINAL DSD file and that new second test pressing.
So this process can be done over and over again, until MFSL engineers are content (that is what they meant that they have time on their side in the interview with Michael).
The DSD file COPY will in the final variant contain:
Compensations for the degrading LP production AND their subjective opinions what they think sounds good.
So we see the final DSD file COPY that is used to make the record we have in our hands, is nothing any of us want to listen to and is just a tool to get what we want in the end.
I hope this little bit in more depth clear up that it is not that simple/easy as it seams at the first glance.
And when you dig into it you realize some controversial topics that maybe for some audiophiles like me is not fun to know.
But for some reasons I still love the format and keep spinning those records. 😀🎼🎶🎵💞
@@AmazonasBiotop first able, I don't buy digital records, second able it is possible to cut better sounding records directly from analog master, get yourself Jethro Tull Stand Up from AP and Bob Marley UHQR plus many jazz records done recently directly from analog mater tapes, DSD does not fix anything it is another step in this process
@@audioguy67 Thanks for your reply!
Good that you have found and know what you like.👍
"DSD does not fix anything"
Actually it does fix issues if you want to produce quality with one step process AND want to make quality pressing with 500 pressing for a set of stampers AND want to press a high number of copies.
Then it actually fix the issue that the original master tape is going to get worn out. I hope you think like me that it is not worth to put that amount of wear on a master tape.
So you see there is always a compromise in production and a need to choose the compromise with the least harmful to the sound quality.
But yes we could see to play the master tape one time and only doing 500 copies. Or the 3 step process.
Anyway maybe not everything is black or white. 👍🎵🎶🎼
Digital suitcase...that's a great way of describing their process. Sounds much less controversial that way. Many thanks for your usual articulate presentation, Dave...
Pleased you enjoyed my review Venus Isle.
just got mine and listened to it thru. It sounds pretty great. it's a thumbs up here!!! Much better packaging as well. It still belts a punch
Thanks for your feedback, it's great to hear your verdict on it too.
The first record I ever bought back in 1984 at 14! I was obsessed with the big art, and when I took it home and put it on the family's modest hi-fi, I was blown completely away! Always played side 2 first back then for some ungodly reason! Hi res digital can sound so close to tape sometimes, you really have to have a hi-fi a surgeon can afford to notice much difference ( there still is a difference though)! But I'm sure it's done well!
That’s so cool. I think I had a pretty much bottom of the range Marantz turntable when I bought Thriller. It blew me away too!
i did the same thing with side two first, never sure why!
Nice analysis. I bought one before it was finished.
Thanks for your feedback David.
Yeah, the biggest thing that came out of the whole digital step debacle for me was how good DSD is as a digital format. Mofi still do all of the magic in the analogue domain but, even so, it definitely has potential.
I agree Stephen, it really has been an eye-opener.
you guys would never know what other engineers could do with original tape, DSD is just DSD still digital, if original recording was done in analog we could have better sounding record if that was cut directly by let's say BG or any other good engineer,
@@audioguy67 if it were my choice I would definitely prefer to have kept it analogue all the way, if Sony would've let the master tape go out to MOFI, which they wouldn't... So, considering this is the option we have I think MOFI did a great job. Sony wouldn't send it to Bernie either I understand.
Regarding DSD, it is notably different to PCM, from what my ears tell me...
In fact I'm interested to try recording a DSD copy of a master to tape vs making a direct tape copy to see what differences I can hear.
DSD kicks ass, but is mostly available for jazz and classical. And...SACDs are a quarter of the price of the One steps
Dsd, when it's was first introduced as sacd was found to be better suited to remaster analogue tapes . In fact dsd makes analogue sound much better .
This as I say was found by mastering engineers to actually improve analogue tapes .
Starting to wish I’d gone for the vinyl now! Instead I went for the SACD partly to save cash admittedly but also a hesitance to pony up the dough for something that essentially became digitally sourced. I’ve had the SACD for a few days now and not listened to it yet. So I shall probably do that right now. Great broadcast.
Do let us know what the SACD sounds like...
Nice job thanks Dave. I played my UK first press for the first time in about 10 years a couple of weeks back and I have to say it didn’t sound anywhere near as good as I remembered, And like you I was struck by just how compressed it sounded tbh. The album obviously has some absolutely incredible tracks (as well as a couple of mediocre ones) but I think overall I might have been convinced pull the trigger on it!
Thank you Life of Vinyl. What you report sounds just like my experience. It is a phenomenal album, I really don't think you'd regret buying it.
Compression is the name of the game when it comes to dance music. This was recorded for dance-floors and radio airplay. Compression and lack of stereo imaging kinda goes with the territory when your target audience is a mainstream global mass market... because lets face it.... the masses worldwide, don't have high end gear.
may be Michael wanted to sound what way, we will never find out
@@audioguy67 I would say so. I can't see Michael siting directly between the speakers and listening carefully to every nuance. Dancers allow the music move them... the last thing they want is.... "analysis paralysis" If the tune don't get in ya face and get you on your feet moving... it's not a dance hit.
😊 This is definitely one record l didn't have to buy. It was a massive hit. They just about played the whole album on the radio back starting in late '82. My favorite song from the album is "W.B.S.S.". 💣 Starting with a bang. 😎 Class of '83! ☆ Happy Holidays to all! '22...'23 ☆
Thanks for sharing Anthony.
Hello, I purchased the mofi sacd of thriller, in my opinion it sounds excellent, but haven't heard the one set, nice video👍
Hi Tweaker Man, thanks for sharing, I am looking forward to hearing the MOFI SACD to see how close it is to the OneStep..
The greatest album ever Thriller.
Thanks for your honest review! Some vinyl reviewers are having a difficult time giving MoFi a positive review these days.
Thank you for watching and commenting Scott!
Can’t wait for my copy to arrive and compare it to my first US pressing. But at the same time, I hope they release the now confirmed 45 RPM version soon!
Have they confirmed a 45rpm version? I haven't heard that.
It was mentioned that a 2x45rpm version would be released at a future date, in the original press release back in may.
@@nicholas6823 thanks for the information Nicholas.
@@nicholas6823oh, I missed that. Thanks
Kinda weird seeing such a high end turntable playing this LP. When I bought it back in 82 I played it over and over and over again on a budget Panasonic all-in-one type stereo. LoL. I remember it sounded amazing even on that thing.
I had a cheap Pioneer Cassette deck attached to it and copied the Lp onto a Maxell XLII cassette to play in my car (an 81 Chevy Monte Carlo). :)
I think I had a cheap-mid level Marantz turntable back when Triller was released. It sounded awesome on that, in fact I think Thriller sounded pretty awesome on anything... This new one is definitely mastered for "audiophiles"...
Thanks for watching, and for your comment.
Excellent choice, Dave! Thanks for this great review. I'm thankful to MoFi for what they do, especially now that things are more transparent.
Just curious if you have any attachment to Guns N' Roses. I just got the new reissues of UYI I and II and I think they're just excellent. Very few reviews and that's either because no one cares or it's an omission. They're high resolution cut at Sterling and pressed at Optimal, but I would've believed they're analogue if you'd gone full MoFi on me.
Thanks Austin, I have seen the GnR reissues in Raves From The Grave, and do have an original of one of them, but I honestly don't play it: I'm not really a GnR kinda guy!
@@DaveDenyer That's cool and neither am I, really. Those albums came out the year I opened my eyes to MUISC - I was 12 in 1991 - so they're very powerful albums to me. There's probably a bit of a formative nostalgia thing going on, too. But those albums are magnificent hard rock and production. Anyway, I was very pleased with Sterling/Optimal's result, even if they were derived from digital transfers.
I've got a bit of FOMO going on with the MoFi THRILLER release. You and Mike Esposito praise it and I'm sure it's great. Just not sure how often I'll want to listen to it. I will say I'm gratified that MoFi has put out an amazing record after Mofigate. Proof is in the pudding and I think they're a great company. I've already forgiven them - we all make mistakes and I think I understand why they went the route they did, even if it's difficult to condone in retrospect. They didn't hurt anyone and they have long put out products that everyone loved before The Mikes' videos sparked the controversy.
Thanks for your patient, measured, and thoughtful reviews, as always. Have a great weekend. By the way, your Blue Train video convinced me to get the 2-LP Tone Poet a few weeks ago and it's just extraordinary. It's a treasure record.
Thanks Austin, btw, Blue Train was my first Tone Poet, I was so impressed I've bought several more Tone Poets since. They are so good, great music, great recordings, top-flight sound quality and packaging, exceptional value for money.
I bouhgt this too and the mofi sacd along with it and I got the thriller 25 cd edition. I also heard this more natural VERY low noise, but some db down difference. Cd from cd has big deference and bigger on sacd layer. The vinyl is...wow... even more so. Expensive yes, but well diserve. Very happy with my purchase !
Thanks for sharing!
I have a CBS Half Speed Master of Thriller that I've always liked quite a bit. Very interested to hear the difference between that and the One Step pressing for myself.
I've not heard the CBS Half Speed Master, so if you do get a MOFI One-Step do let us know how they compare.
What about the Walmart exclusive vinyl version with the different cover
Thanks for the nice and detailed review, as usual!
Ones question: how do you demagnetize your records? Some explanation and comments would be welcome. I heard about ZeroStat and similars, but wondered about true effects. Thanks!
BTW my Thriller copy is arriving next week!
Hi Ivan,
Thanks for asking: I use a Furutech DeMag Alpha to demagnetise every record before every play. I also use a Furutech DeStat III but not every record, not every play.
I think the DeMag has the greater sonic effect, but they're doing different things, so both are worth investigating. The DeMag is a lot more costly...
On a similar topic: I also use an Aesthetix ABCD-1 cartridge demagnetiser. But that's a once every few months thing.
@@DaveDenyer thank you Dave! I will try them gradually.
Keep it up, love your reviews and coincide with your impressions.
Fascinating that this is the 1st review where the reviewer has found this pressing to be great . I think I'll have to buy it now as I was originally put off by the negative reviews
I have a feeling that most people “think” they don’t like compression, rather than a very useful mastering tool to increase ‘apparent’ dynamics...
You definitely have to turn up the volume on the MOFI.
What about thriller 40?
Yeah that's what I thought, DSD256 is insanely high res. If you can't hear digital artifacting then maybe it is as good or better than an analog tape transfer. This bodes well for the future of Archived Masters.
Hi Matthew, thanks for your comment. To be honest, once I'd recovered from the shock, this is where my mind is going: what could be the benefit of this, how can we achieve even higher fidelity records (tapes, digital) in the future?
Yes guys I'm excited about this. I think this is the future for archiving masters without wearing master tapes out .
I'm happy .
Can't wait to buy them after I upgrade my system .
I grew up with this on tape and was curious about this. Mofi-gate put me off so I picked up an original for £14 quid and im happy...I'd rather put my money on a load of Tone Poets. Great video..thanks
Thanks for your feedback Marky-Mark. I can't argue about the Tone Poets, I've got a stack of them lined up for forthcoming videos... Watch this space!
Spot on my Friend we all Know MoFi Has been mis leading ! 180 g Lp I was hoping would be a new begining I dont Feel that Todays newer recording are up to par Some Can Be of course like 45rpm As for your Class D Amp Ok Staying ahead of the curve OK i still Have my KRELL Ksa 250 Keeps me nice and Warn Bat Tube Pre Amp & my Custom Thiel Custom 3.6 Acoustic Sig TT /SoundSmith the Voice Cart iam happywith it
Thanks for your support Leo. Nice system you've got there. I tried a BAT preamp at home several years ago: it was very nice, I've never had a Krell at home, but it was certainly a dream amp.
16:59 You say, “but you do need to turn it up.” Did you perhaps, after turning it up to the level that seemed right, did you perhaps measure the listening sound level in your room at that point? I’d love to know this! Thank you!
Hi WeBe, it wasn't super-loud, if I remember right it was roughly 88-90dB. The measurement was using a free iPhone app. so I won't say it was an accurate reading, but useful to compare levels with my 1982 pressing.
You should buy the MOFI SACD and compare the two…that’d seriously interesting.
Hi Anthony, I'd haven't done it with this title, but I have listened to other titles DSD vs vinyl LP and in every single case I prefer the vinyl, by some margin. I don't have an SACD player myself, but have friends who have top-of-the-range Marantz, DCS, and Estoteric machines.
So, Is ud1s's sound quality better than original? Does it deserve to have that price?
No, remain with the original one
mine didn't include the lyric sheet in it
That's a shame, I'd suggest you contact the supplier or MOFI direct. I would hope that MOFI should send you one.
I laughed when you said you warmed the stylus up, I didn’t think diamond heated up playing vinyl, do you get vinyl shavings after each play?
LOL, I do this as second nature when making comparisons (critical listening, if you like): I'm pretty sure it's the cartridge suspension that 'warms up' rather than the stylus, along with the phono stage and amplifier circuits, tubes / valves etc. (all 30 of them). It certainly sounds better after an LP side or two so is important to make sure that's done if doing comparisons.
Having said all that, I'm sure the stylus does heat up during play due to friction between stylus and groove.
People need to not worry about digital so much, it's the least coloured and most accurate process we have.
Hey dood, even though I am a complete 'analogue freak': I have a tape-based passion project: thereeltoreelrambler.com, I am definitely not wholly anti-digital. In fact I'm currently investigating mastering digital recordings to analogue tape and comparing the same mastered to DSD and to PCM.
@@DaveDenyer Happy to hear, i'm an audio engineer and digital is incredibly useful for us, storing high quality records from an analog era. Theres no reason to why a good audio engineer would mess this process up, the analog vibe should be already in the mix/to tape anyway. I do love the analog sound but lossless digital has its place and is incredibly useful in getting a 1:1 representation.
I received my mofi copy yesterday. I too will compare it to the 1982 US version.
Cool, I hope you like it.
What number is yours? When I saw Michael 45's was in the 20,000 range I rushed to order a copy before all 40,000 are sold out. Did not want to miss out on an audiophile copy of this and will be my first copy of this.
Hi Donald, mine is 027679
If we all donate that money to charity to feed children maybe Michael would appreciate that
Children are obese these days🤔🤔
Probably a ding dong or something else 🤔
@@leonsam12 not all are
Oh yes. Michael “loved” children…
@@Caifo Unfortunately. Or maybe there were just made up stories without any factual evidence. The accusers changed their stories multiple times, and child actors from the "moonwalker" which are now adults and other actors from various other Michael Jackson films stand up for him still. R Kelly was caught red-handed with CP so he's obviously done. 😳
Where did you order your copy Dave?
Hi Charles: www.thevinyladventure.com/product/michael-jackson-thriller-mofi-ultradisc-180g-33rpm/
I wanna hear this so badly. I thought u would play a few tracks here
Hi Wonderouz, I've tried playing records on TH-cam before and had them blocked, so don't bother any more. I'm not sure how those that do manage this.
Do you leave shrink wrap on your lp’s?
Hi David, not usually, no.
If there are any stickers on it, I'll generally remove it and keep it somewhere inside the packaging / sleeve.
It looks like the back of your "older" album says, "Co-Produced by Michael Jackson" on the back cover. If that is the case, then this is NOT the first pressing. The first pressings of this album omit his co-producer credit. That would be why Discogs says yours is a repress. Your pressing is most likely from 1983 / 1984.
Thanks for the feedback.
Didn't this company just get into trouble for false advertising what master source they were using
Hi Richard, yes, well, they certainly outraged a good number of their former fans.
They have now at least fully revealed their master sources. It was this title which brought out the truth which is clearly a good thing, no matter how unpalatable it is to a large number of record collectors.
have the SACD on the way. never bought the vinyl when I had a collection.
I am curious to hear the SACD having now heard the One-Step.
@@DaveDenyer Just heard it today. listened to it on a pair of Sennheiser HD 560S headphones. Sounds really good.
@@davidenders9282 Great!
I would love to know how it compares to the US 1st pressing the Bernie hot cut.
That would be interesting, but I can't fault this particular MOFI.
Another lovely comparison, thank you Sir! Although, wouldn't the '1st pressing' be from the country of origin, in this case the US? I have a 1st US pressing. Is there any particular reason that you chose the UK pressing? Also, if I may humbly and MOST highly recommend what I could call a truly *LIFE CHANGING* video by the TH-cam fellow The Audio Analyst episode #87 where he interviews David Robinson, the owner of Positive Feedback. Let me tell you... you will not believe it! Just to give you a taste... He states that he and Chad (of all people) and another audio luminary did some blind tests where they compared the original master analog tapes to Quad DSD copies. They did this several times. *NOT ONCE* could any of them tell which was which! He said that Chad was rather bemused by this, as you can well imagine. How about that! Additionally, he stated that he felt that the guys at Abbey Road should 'Get off their @sses and dump the PCM format they always use and get going with Quad DSD' Like I said... truly life changing!
Thank you Lathe of Heaven.
My copy is, according to Discogs (which is not an infallible source) a UK reissue. I bought it at or shortly after release in the UK in my local record shop at the time. No other reason than that.
I’ll check out that video you mention. I do think DSD is a superior format to PCM but as far as I’n aware you can’t really work with it, so for mixing, etc, it’d generally converted to DXD (very high res PCM).
All these changes: analogue to DSD, DSD to DXD, back to DSD, and ultimately back analogue (be it in the mastering studio, your CD player’s DAC your ‘digital’ speakers… Personally, I’d rather do without as many of these ‘conversions’ as possible.
Saw it too, yes eye-opening!
Just watched that episode... very interesting indeed.
Whilst I agree in general with most of what he says, primarily, that MOFI did a dis-service to the industry by allowing, for 15 years or so, us to believe that their produce was fully analogue when they could've been promoting DSD copy-masters.
However, me being me, I would not agree entirely with absolutely everything: for example, stamper 1 and stamper 10 being identical: presumably, as with everything, the first stamper produced from the mother would not be as good as the 20th... Mothers wear out just as stampers do.
Also, Computer drives, hard discs etc, they do not live forever, so the DSD masters will need constant monitoring, backing up etc.
There were a few points like that that I disagree with, but in essence a very good article.
@@DaveDenyer Thank you kindly for the nice reply! Well, if you find the time to watch the video, Mr. Robinson explains that that is NOT the case at all. He quite honestly dispels many of the 'Myths' that people have about DSD. And, he explains that it is part of the latest cutting edge Quad DSD console that includes all editing within the format if I understood correctly (also, if you think about it, the 'Back to analog' step you mention is the usual one taken at that point whether directly from the DSD or from an analog master tape 😊)
@@latheofheaven sorry, I may not have made it clear, but I did watch the video. I thought it was very interesting, and only disagreed with a few very minor points (such as the assumption that a digital file stored on a digital hard drive will last forever), I've had several computer drives fail over the years... All in all a great video, thanks for pointing it out to me! 👍
For a 33 I would want the SACD included for that price
Its not the words its the groove.
Nice review and I understand you plug the record shop. But for £135 or £145 pounds is a lot considering I got my copy from the Michael Jackson website for £90.
Hi Massimo, I didn't know they were available from the MJ store, just checked and see that you're right, although all sold out now. thevinylfrontier is selling them for £135, the £145 was me getting muddled up (happens a lot).
Agreed! I paid $100 usd from the MJ website.
Maybe the UK album sounds harsh to you because it was mastered for the hifi equipment of that period with the mastering tools of that period? I'm going a bit into mastering recently, vinyl to digital, and think I need to go into compression more because my equipment is rendering the sound so sharp and harsh. Previously I also driven my phono amp into a 90s amp into 70s speakers and the sound was much more mellow.
I just listened to the Mofi on a yt stream. I can definitely hear what you mean with timbre and textures. Seems like they fetched a bit more valuable high-frequency content from the tape.
@@booom4849 I'm glad you can hear what I can. I'm only an observer as far as mastering goes: it's an art that some have truly mastered (pardon the pun). Good luck with your journey into the art: look forward to seeing 'BoooM' etched in the run-out area of an LP soon... 🙂
@@DaveDenyer Thanks, that would be great, I'll let you know 🙂
The original cd was emphasised, you need to make sure to de emphasise, otherwise it sounds too bright.
Hello, can I play the record on any turntable?
Yes of course.
@@DaveDenyer Can I hear the sound as you tell it, or do I need a special turntable for that?
@MJMR3 you need to spend your retirement on a turntable. A hard pass.
you should compare with the US original w/o the mj producer credit listed on the back of the sleeve. the UK and Japan were cut from production dubs. the US is the bernie grundman cut. that being said. even if the UK is inferior sounding to the US orginal and/or the UD1S, i would still prefer the UK original to be in my collection rather than the UD1S. for 3 simple reasons - its 100% analog, its an original & the tape was in much better condition than it is now p.s. IIRC, the EUROPE original LP did use bernie grudman's lacquers
Very interesting Dave I have an OG that I found in a thrift store about 7 years ago cheap. Didn't care to buy it back in 82 saw enough of it on MTV. I don't have any One Steps just a few regular 45rpm MOFI's. I wounder why the mastering on this would be some much better than other One Steps if they are using the same process. Sine the whole DSD thing I compared my Dire Straits UK Vertigo 1st press to the MOFI and the 1st press wins more musical the same with Love over Gold. Seeing it's DSD 256 you would think it would just smoke it given their using the same masting chain. I might get Van Halen 1 out of curiosity and compare it to my OG but for me it's going to have to sound better or as good as the Steely Dan UHQR Can't By A Thrill that's the new bench mark IMHO.
Hi Dave, I wouldn't say the mastering on this is 'so much better than on other One-Steps', certainly as good. Maybe they did do a better job, that's hard to say. What surprises me is that at 'only' 33.3 it still delivers. It's difficult to know how much of the quality of say, the Mingus Uh Uh is down to the remastering, the Super Vinyl, the One-step process etc etc...
I don't have any of the MOFI Dire Straits, in fact most of my MOFIs date from the 80s and 90s. I only really started buying them again with the One-Steps, out of curiosity I guess...
I haven't got any of the AP UHQR Steely Dan's yet, but am more comfortable with their process. I'm extremely happy with the UHQRs that I do have.
@@DaveDenyer I think the UHQR of KOB is another example of how well you can produce a 33.3 on higher quality vinyl. I haven't heard it yet but there a lot of good reviews for the new Bob Marley UHQR @ 33.3 too.
@@davesans8536 I totally agree. I’ve got an order in for Rastaman Vibration. 😀
Sounds like one of their better releases. The Kronos turntable CEO said that the older MOFI versions of other records from other artists sounded worse than the original ones, kinda makes you wonder if there then are maybe 5% or 50% of what they produce that is better than the original pressings.
Hi Larry, it is of course it is subjective, but from those I've got I'd say it was closer to 50% than 5%. This is definitely a good one (in my opinion), and I do like that it's 33rpm, so a little less expensive, doesn't take up so much shelf space.
I don’t know why mine plays to fast. I have only two options of speed. So I can’t actually listen to it properly.
That's really odd Lounis. I honestly can't imagine what the problem might be...
I couldn't pay that price for a record I'll barely listen too
Same here, Unique. I'm sure it's a great demo record. I feel the same about Roger Waters' AMUSED TO DEATH by AP. I want to hear it, but can't bring myself to buy it.
The usual process to press a disc is this: The cut the lacquer, From the lacquer comes the father (wich is a negative), from the later they do a mother (a positive metal disc that can be played), after they do sons (I don't know the quantity but they can do more than one with the mother) however, the sons can be used only to do 1000 copies max then the quality degrade. MoFi are using the Father to do the pressing meaning they had to cut 40 lacquers and this is the reason why they also use the DSD256 as every lacquer cut will sound the same. With analog tape with each passing, it difer from the first one and it degrades. Most companies refuses now to let their masters leave their studios so MoFi numerised the original master with the DSD256 is more practical and there is no lost of sound for every master discs they will do from copy #1 to 40 000 will sound the same. I am wainting for MoFi to ship my copy (not done yet) but I am looking foward to listen to it.
Thanks for your feedback and good explanation of the process Claude.
wow that's quite a different take than Michael Ludwig 45 RPM guy had. But I would trust your experience much more.
You've got me intrigued now, I shall have to have watch his review. Thanks Pete, I really appreciate your support!
I hear there's a Bernie Grunman version of this album. It would be nice if you could get your hands on it and compare it to the mofi version since Bernie Grunman is the original engineer of the Michael Jackson's Thriller album.
Hi Keith, I need to look that up and maybe I'll get one.
If they transferred a DSD file directly to vinyl and that appears to provide the best audio experience closest to a master tape, why not simply listen to the DSD files from a quality player?
A very interesting point, which has already occurred to me.
I am currently investigating along these lines and shall continue to do so...
Because mofi will not sell us the original DSD256 file. They want to instead sell us a downsampled inferior product DSD64 (SACD). If they want to sell us DSD64, they at the very least should record it natively at dsd64 and not downsample from dsd256. Current resampling software algorithms are terrible and ruin the music.
@@380stroker I'm sure it's a case of Sony won't allow MOFI to sell us the DSD256 file... Interesting what you say about downsampling software. I'm not surprised and have always struggled with the notion of upsampling, which seems to eb a thing among some people, and some manufacturers...
you guys forgetting about one thing, totally different sound but may be the intention of original mastering was to sound it that way
That's a very good point: the original was intended to be as it was. This MOFI is aimed at 'audiophiles' who, let's say, want to hear deeper into the mix.
$180 Canadian -this is insane-
It's not cheap but it is good.
Ummmm, I would hug him!
Looks like some lovely packaging and doubt a great listen ( especially on decent equipment) but £135- hmm- l thought spending £39 on a Noriko Miyamoto album was a fair bit. Could not justify that - however, perhaps one day.
I ordered directly with their stupid online shop and still nothing… everyone already got theirs. I'm so fed up.
Hi René, so sorry to hear this. I don't know where you are based, but I ordered mine (here in the UK) through thevinyladventure.com. They are not the cheapest but are reliable and easy to deal with.
I do understand that the Michael Jackson store is also selling them at better prices than most: www.shopmichaeljackson.com/dept/thriller?cp=100598_111997_111659
I have the Holland pressing as it uses the original us stampers from Bernie grundman the Uk will sound bad as it’s got from a copy tape
Thanks James, very interesting...
Hi dave. Absolutely love your videos.
You surprise me with the original pressing .... as the original was a grundman mastering ..
Im watching again because im thinking of getting the mofi pressing
Hi Mike, Ok, the copy I have is a UK 1982 pressing: being such a hugely popular album there were many pressings made concurrently. I appreciate that the US first press was a BG cut, and also of course that BG made a recut as he wasn't happy with the first cut, or so the story goes. I am using my 'original' as reference because, here in the UK at least, it is the version that 99% of people will know.
I agree with the reproduction of Paul McCartney voice. But I don't like this LP overall - instruments are good but not all the vocals. But i have not compared to an original so my view may be incorrect. My front end near top end Linn LP12. And super vinyl is not alway flat, I had to return my Carol Kings Tapestry.
I have encountered the 'not flat' MOFI problem on occasions, which is why I prefer to buy them from a reseller, should there be cause to exchange...
Regarding the overall sound; I guess it's just that this album is such a complex pop masterpiece of the era, with so much programming and effects. The clap sounds I have worked out are Linn drums: not from the same company that made the LP12 of course...
@@DaveDenyer The only track i enjoyed was the last song on side 2, a slow love song. I wrote elsewhere that there is amazing detail but i can't feel the soul of the music.
Any idea if that UK copy was cut by Bernie Grundman like all the millions of 80s US pressings?
No, I don't know that it would be very interesting to find out.
So the so-called digital everybody was bytch’n and moan’n about, sounds better than the analogue first pressing!! Guess y’all better see if y’all can reverse your order cancelations!!
LOL I don't think those that cancelled due to the controversy will take much notice of my opinion on this.
Why in the hell do they not include the bonus tracks in and with this release and, "Thriller 25"?!! They also should not have had the original cover as the picture on the picture disc of, "Thriller 25". They should have done something else for that. There is no reason why they could not have included all the photos in the previous releases for this. This...as great as it might be...and I think it might be...is a bare bones release.
would you say the one step LP sounds better than high res.. ? I.e Amazon or Apple Music high res.. via Sonos speakers..
I used to love my Michael LP’s as a kid.. Dirty Diana intro was one of my faves I used to drive my mother up the wall playing that part over and over 😂
I bet the Van Halen riff sounds epic ^__^=
Hi Dando, I have no way of really testing this, but with a Sonos, I'd imagine the high res might sound better. That is only a guess.
@@DaveDenyer Dave, Thanks for coming back to me, I too had the original Off the Wall and Thriller LP that my parents game me as a 5 year old in 1988 I was obsessed with his music.. along with Bad LP they brought me brand new.. not long after.. I queued up for that 1 with my mother on launch ^__^=
Last night 02/12 conveniently watched Thriller video on TH-cam in 4K which was originally aired 02/12/1983 the year I was born ^__^=
I highly recommend you watch the newly restored 4K Thriller and Beat it TH-cam on my Sonos let’s just say ir was quite the party last night 🤣
I have great memories with LP’s to hear your passion with them on a level I could never understand it’s an honour to watch your video so I subscribed to support your channel especially as you talked about how much better it sounds than the original LP 😊
I used to listen to all sorts of LPs my parents had quite the collection, Fleetwood Mac, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Thin Lizzy, then to one of my other kid favourites Disney Fantasia.
Such great gold hood memories, so I’m glad there is a channel like yours around.
Thank you 🙏🏼
@@Dando-1983 Wow, thanks for your lovely message! I will take a look at the 4k Thriller video.
Can’t believe you paid £130+ for it in the U.K.
I got mine for £97 in the u.k. it sounds like a test pressing to me. Yes they have opened it up but killed EVH guitar solo it’s too quiet. The bass has gone thru most of the album. Best track they did a better job is human nature they get a 10/10 for that track only. The record ain’t worth £100 no chance all we are paying for is fancy packaging really. The labels has stamper damage for a start both side of the record it’s not that flat either. I’m not gonna send it back tho don’t wanna be waiting forever for another copy.
Sure, I didn't realise the Michael Jackson store had them at £99. You got a great deal (well, except that you don't like it). Sorry to hear that.
@@DaveDenyer I’m sure it will grow on me but still I don’t think it is worth £100. If this was how it had originally come out it wouldn’t of sold nearly half of what it has. I played the original first pressing thriller every day for a whole month before this mofi dropped. So I got a feel for the album again big time so noticed a lot of the differences when I played the mofi. I then did a track by track back to back to write a review of the differences. I played my son the beat it track he listened to the original track then the mofi track. He reckons they dropped EVH guitar solo by 7db and it didn’t feel like a guitar solo as all the other guitars stayed at the same level as eddies guitar. That was just one track for him he couldn’t listen to anymore.
@@ronnierafferty478 I totally agree the original was the right mix for the time and purpose. No question. It was (is) a pop record, intended for radio play and dance floors etc. It is the best-selling record of all time for good reason.
MOFI's an audiophile label and as such I think it's fair to say mastered this for those who want to hear more into the mix, so to speak.
I listened again to this earlier and I wouldn’t even call it audiophile quality Human Nature is probably the stand out track of them all still not satisfied with the mix it’s awful. For the price you have to pay for Mofi it’s kind of a fool and his money. My copy even the label on the record isn’t perfect
If you paid £130 you were robbed i paid £90 for mine from the michael jackson store
Hi John, someone else mentioned this in the comments and I did take a look. It never occurred to me to look there, that's an amazing deal!
Modern Mastering kills unique sound. May be I’m wrong. But I heard it on “Thriller 40” and on Beatles’s “Abbey road” remastered.
Very loud, much compression and … it’s not THAT record, it’s just some sounds’s porridge. And may be I’m old.
LOL, don't get me started! I am appalled at some of the 'remixes or remasterings' I hear.
I recently noticed Tori Amos - Scarlet's Walk album has just been reworked... It's my favourite of her albums, sounds incredible but sadly was only ever released on CD, so I've been waiting for a vinyl version for twenty+ years... That was rumoured to be happening soon, then she releases a new 2023 mix. It is appalling, phasey, distorted, absolutely ruined what was a stunning piece of work... So, now I fear the vinyl will be taken from this awful 2023 master... It is so sad. Rant over...
This album was the worlds best ever selling vinyl record. From a record company perspective... it was a total success selling big worldwide even behind the Iron Curtain. But they weren't pressed it in US and UK and then distrusted. No! Copies of the master-tape were shipped worldwide to each countries mastering and pressing plants resulting in 676 versions (including cassette).
This means there's a massive variation between versions. Also, the target audience in "The West" where "the general public" rather than "audiophiles". It was cut to be played on dance-floors and AM radio so i doubt if any audio information exists over 10Khz on the original UK 1st issue.
The UK pressing would have been mostly played on the Amstrad TS30 Audio Tower System... that was very popular at the time and not Hi-End gear... so it was cut from master tape with this in mind.
I have a very rare Bulgarian pressing on Balkanton Records "BTA-11703" (The Bulgarian Communist State Owned Record Label). It's the rare "Coloured Star Label version" and sounds heaps better than the UK 1st issue. No doubt it's worth more than this new Mo-Fi pressing but it's never been sold on discogs.... so who knows. ???
Anyhow, i'm glad Mo-Fi has pressed a cracking "Audiophile" version.
Now "Audiophiles" can experience the same pleasure as the rest of us "audio-philistines".
Enjoy! :)
More action than talking
Great album but Off the wall was better.