Floyd Rose Without a Locking Nut - Does it work?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ค. 2018
- The Floyd Rose is the ultimate whammy bar that allows you to slacken the strings to the point where they're hanging off the neck, whammy up several tones and after that, still be in tune.
But do you need a locking nut to get that tuning stability?
Big thanks to Bob Cross of The Guitar Forge in Tadley for doing a fantastic job with fitting the bone nut.
Skip to 2:33 for the test
This was the video that inspired me to modify my favorite guitar to have a Floyd Rose. I had seen another video of someone who had a Floyd Rose guitar without a locking nut and it stayed in tune perfectly. Can't find it anymore, but I saw this vid and I finally have a guitar with a Floyd. Graph Tech nut and locking tuners along with the Floyd is a killer combination. And it sounds better than a guitar with a locking nut, so I'm surprised no one is talking about this!
I had noticed that my schecter elite would not go out of tune just using it without locking the nut. I thought maybe I was missing something..
Always the g string.
ALWAYS
at this point it's like why are we even calling it the g string...
@@jibicusmaximus4827 maybe… “The almost G string” or “the g string kind of”…. 🤔
Ah, G-strings... Always having friction in the crack/slot... A thong as old as time.
_Hurr-hurr!_
Killer guitar dude! Also this video really helped because I’m building a partscastor and wanted a Floyd rose trem without the locking nut and this really helped with my decision!
That's fantastic mate! This is exactly why I made this video! Good luck with your build
It should work well with locking tuners. Just gotta make sure the nut is lubed up.
Graphtech nut solves that problem.
I just leave the Locking nuts of and squirt a few drop of Big Bends Nut Sauce on the Floyd locking nut dock and have at it . I don't have the Skills to cut out a bone nut and Its a Schecter SVSShredder with Tele body and EMG 70's buckers in the bridge and neck . Its a Beast but looks like a Surf Music Guitar since I got it in Sea Foam Green so people freak out from the big Metal sound when I gig lol All part of my evil Metal / Shredder plan . But I like how his looks with a regular nut on it . Maybe down the Road ?? Big Bends solves a lot of potential problems ...
@@DeadShred9 I've also installed a ''Nutbuster''on one of my strats, and you can bend to high (or low) heaven with this thing! It's a little pricey at $125USD, but it floats on the strings, so I didn't have to MOD my Fender strat at all, and the thing really does work, about 1000% better than I ever expected.
Great vid and straight forward. Buying some locking tomorrow!
That's quite a killer strat man. Subbed.
I have the same problem regards finding the right lock nut for my showmaster Squier....really useful. Many thanks for the vid.
you look like lars ulrichs cousin who plays guitar
Lmao that's amazing
just purchased some gotoh locking tuners for my jackson Floyd. gunna lubricate everything and hope that mine can sound and stay in tune as good as yours
Man I'm with you! I'm over the locking nut! I'm actually going to put a new regular neck on and not have a Floyd Nut!
So glad you did this video... I am just about to embark on a similar job with my Epiphone Les Paul and fitting a TUSQ nut... I hate the Floyd Rose and just mounting a "Stetsbar" on one of my Telecasters! Many Thanks!
No worries Colin! Glad you found it helpful!
This is cool. I might as well not use my locking nut anymore as the screw that locks into the lower two strings has been worn out already.
Thank you for coming out with this.
Awesome! My locking but stripped and I bout a replacement and that sat off 2 mm off the edge at the low e string, I put the original back on and used the screws from the off on cause they were a tad bit longer. I’ve been looking into locking tuners and kept finding people saying not to do it. But the locking nut is easily the worst part of a Floyd Rose for me. Although changing the tuning is a major pain as well
Cool, I recently bought a 1973 Strat that previously had a Floyd and locknut and been converted back to a standard trem. The restored nut has been nicely done but on the body you can see the enlarged block route just under the bridge plus it doesn’t hold tune that well when you go for the bar hard. I’m going to reinstate a non-fine tuner Floyd and leave the nut as is. I saw Guthrie’s video too. The post holes are already there so hopefully I just need a new guard with a Floyd route and a original original non- fine tuner Floyd bridge and it should be sweet!
Kahler website I highly recommend to get a locking nut it screws on on the headstock where the floyd string tree is and eliminates the string trees and you can still use a regular guitar nut
Great video Ben, i've just got a Strat type with a floyd rose bridge but no nut, i know nothing about Floyd Rose's and was going to have the nut installed but i'll just change the tuners instead, what gauge strings are you using?
Thanks Lance! I think I was using 9-46 when I made this video but it was a while ago now. I have to say, Floyd Rose's require much less muscle to do crazy whammy stuff the lighter gauge strings you go for. Something to bare in mind when setting one up
Gorgeous strat
I bought a cheap little esp ltd m100fm at a pawn shop for $90 USD. It has a Floyd Rose ''Special'' bridge, but it was missing the locking nut. Instead of ordering a new nut, I installed some locking tuners and a graphtec nut and string tree I had in my parts drawer. Stays in tune just fine, and what I like about the guitar is, it weighs about 5 1/2 pounds, so I can play it forever without back strain. Basswood body, maple neck and rosewood fingerboard give it a great tone. I'm not a professional, but I play a lot, and get the occasional gig, and this is one of 2 guitars I always take with me.
Great, thanks for sharing your story on this topic. As well, I like how people can find a great guitar for a few bucks at pawn shops or dump stores, have some restoration work on it and then have a ‘friend for life’ in it. That’s just unbeatable.
That`s a very beautiful Fender with very nice pickups 🥰😉😊Locking tuners ?
Very interesting and rare content, man. Great stuff! ❤
Replacing the locking for a traditional nut should work perfectly, as you showed!
But I wonder how this would develop over time, though.
I believe the locking nut is more of a practical design choice more related to durability than a dedicated component to fix intonation issues.
Of course I can be completely wrong about my interpretation of this matter, but my train of thought does not come out of nowhere, I promise. LOL
So.
In my humble opinion as a luthier and instrument design history enthusiast (and nerd!), the idea that the locking nut was specifically designed with the sole purpose of keeping the instrument's intonation perfect in a Floyd Rose tremolo system is not exactly wrong but understandably incomplete, actually.
I understand that the main function of the locking nut is to mitigate the wear caused by the constant friction of the strings in the nut cavities over time. If the strings are locked in place, they do not have any margin to wear out the nut cavities over time, so the nut AND the strings can have a long life cycle. Using a traditional bone/tusq or any kind of soft materials nut in a Floyd Rose tremolo system, even thou it is technically possible and functional, the nut cavities will certainly suffer with the fritction of the strings with the constant use of the tremolo over time, especially when using roundwound strings, which is most likely the case with everyone who tries this out. LOL
It should work fine with brass or other metal nuts as well, but we should have in mind that the strings will also wear out too in these cases, as metals are harder materials than bone or other softer materials. The chance of the strings to break due to the constant metal to metal friction.
All these notes and details can lead to several different problems over time as the wear of a component or another increases, including the difficulty of maintaining accurate intonation of the instrument among others.
Nonetheless... It is a hell of a fun experiment! 🤘🤘🤘
I've thought on this topic as well. I have an Ibanez RG, 6-string, and i'm gonna remove the whole floyd tho, cause i'll throw an Evertune in there.. But then i got my answer on removing the locking nut and use a traditional nut. Cool!
Nice vid.
This stays more in tune with my guitar with a Floyd and a locking nut
Great Video! My guitar headstock got chipped off leaving the first tuner and a bit of wood broken off...I reckon changing the whole neck(it’s a telecaster btw) but I’m quite new to this. The neck replacement I have here is that of a regular fender strat, do you think replacing that would work? What do I need to put in place?
not the video author but it should work since they are both bolt-on with same scale and number of frets.
I got ibanez with floating trem it goes out of tune just sitting on guitar stand I absolutely hate it. My strat dive all day and it never goes out of tune.
I just did a video playing on my clean channel divebombs pullups etc no locking nut no locking tuners stays intune. Exactly what you said is true.
What about about after deep string bends?
Dude !!! this is Great lml ! how did you install the new nut ?
Thanks for the kind words! I didn't install it, I got a luthier to do it
I'm going to do exactly the same thing on a charvel but I'm not going to use a string tree just a roller on the B and E string and give that a go as I reckon that will offer even less friction.
Wow this is amazing! Whats the radius on the bone nut
There is an advantage to these guitars with a Floyd nut. They are a little longer in the area of the nut, giving a better string angle from nut to tuner when you revert them to a normal nut. I did this conversion on a Fenix ST-130 with great result, locking tuners of course ;-) I did however add some wood under and behind the new nut to get a perfect fit ;-) I fitted a Schaller vintage trem to try the nonlocking alternative, it sounds GREAT, that trem brings something to the table, only downside is that the thin strings can get caught in the rollers. FWIW
locking tuners aint locking anything
Great video bro, just for clarification, without the locking nut, I can just tune using the headstock tuners?
i have forgotten to tighten the clamps on locking nut before and didnt notice until one vibrated loose and fell off, but i played for a long time and stayed in tune
If the strings are completely slack during a divebomb, isn't there a possibility of them popping out of the nut slots? Are the fine tuners still useful for anything at all or do you just use your regular tuners? Also, what is your process for lubricating the parts you mentioned?
I never had a problem with the strings falling out of the nut even with the bar right down for long periods of time. I still used the fine tuners all the time and mainly used the locking tuners for roughly tuning as normal. And Big Bends Nut Sauce is what I used to polish the nut and saddles
@@benforsey Thanks for the reply!
The 2nd string is *never* actually in tune. With our 12 semi-tone / octave system, it's all approximation and healthy sacrifice to arrive at a system that is highly versatile, yet simple enough to learn.
The new locknuts were too high or too low? They make shims for the floyd locknut to raise it. The mounting shelf on the neck can be lowered by routing if its too high.
Thanks bro. I’m rebuilding a strat with a Kahler trem, and I have yet to buy the $36 locking nut, maybe I’ll give it a try without it and get it if I have a problem with tuning. Yours seemed to stay rock solid
Best of luck with your build mate! Yeah get a nice set of locking tuners and a bone nut cut by a good luthier and that will definitely do the job.
Are you by chance using the same kahler trem system that jerry cantrell has on his signature rampage models? Ive been looking to get one but i cant seem to find that exact one
@@HXCBeard Don't know if this helps you any? The Real, Made In the USA Flat Mount KAHLER Bridges.
www.kahlerusa.com/flat-mount-tremolos-bridges-6-string
I use locking nuts but I always set it behind the original nut. Locking nuts are always the wrong depth and string width.
it looks better without the locking nut.
what did you use to lube the string tree and the floyd?
Doesn’t the fret sort of become the nut when playing anything other than an open string? Does the nut only change the sound of strings being played open?
The age old debate! I put a brass nut on my Wilkinson loaded custom built super strat and I honestly have noticed a tone shift even on barred chords, but everyone's ears are different. There is a definite change on open strings though. Good way to describe it is it makes your open strings sound like their being fretted, if that makes any sense.
microphone into camera mic jack (if it has one) and said microphone in front of amp will show the true sound. almost studio quality.
orrr the record/headphones jack on the amp with cable into camera mic jack. which what I’ve used lately. need a pre-amp though. at least a passive one. no batteries needed
The most stable Floyd experience I have had is with an Ibanez prestige with an 11 piece neck and an original edge trem.
What kind of nut can fit the locking nut cavity? I cant find one to fit mine.
G always sounds sharp to me too. I work on guitars and have been for years. They tuners says it's in tune, but my ears say otherwise. I think it's because it tends to out of tune or flat from hearing everyone else who play over the years of music, so maybe we're trained to hear G at a flatter tuning. That's my guess.
I thought I was crazy! You have no idea how reassuring this was to read
I feel the same 😅
Try a wound string for the g. Works for me
I've done the same thing on my 1980 bc rich platinum series ,comes with the same floyd rose bridge.
Graph Tech just released some unlocking nuts.. i think they're designed to specifically replace the FR locking nuts. They look awesome
How do you insert the Floyd Rose on the Tremolo Area I guess you drilled the Tremolo part of the guitar
I find a slight up pull will put it back in tune if it ever falls out of tune. But this is basically why I don't want or need a floyd anymore...just doesn't seem to be necessary.
Great video, I am currently building a G&L Legacy Series Rampage with a Kahler trem. I was wondering if a locking nut was necessary as I'm not fond of routing my neck to accept the locking nut. I will try locking tuners and see how it holds. This has given me hope :)
Did you finish your project and how did it go?
How do I sting up my guitar when the floyd rose just keeps rising as I tighten the strings? I tried adjusting the tension on the springs in the back and rising and lower the action. What can I do?
If you don’t have all 5 springs in, put more springs in.
ok so you changed locking nut to a bone nut, but what will happen if i dont replace the locking nut? As in i have just taken off the locking nut completely
You could tap out the nut to a larger thead, drill out the clamps and just getting bigger bolts
I'm that guy who only uses the digital tuner as a starting point. My guitar never sounds in tune to my ears until I've tweaked it. I tend to tune for the chords I'm playing.
The tuning sounded awful to me, but I can't be sure the bar antics were the reason for that.
check out the guitar nut buster. it's basically floyd locking nut with fine tuning without having to screw it to your neck. the strings just pass through it.
I'm in the process of installing a Floyd Rose Bridge on a guitar and I like the idea of NOT installing the Locking Nut! I have locking tuners so I'm all set to try your idea! Thanks for the Video!
I'm putting one on frankenstrat replica and it's a pain in the arse
@@richardfisher8460 Ya! They can be a Pain!
Do you think it could work with a brass nut lubricated or just go with a bone nut instead ?
Just use a regular fr brass nut without the top piece/clamp & it works on my schecter elite 6.
The reason G is sounds sharper is likely the sound of the open string, a wound third usually fixes the problem
What's a wound third?
@@sbrave Just the third/G string, but wounded like the low e and a, instead of plating like the 2nd and 1st strings
@@zazxazza I don't follow. I wind all 6 strings the same way. What is "plating"?
Makes you wonder why the locking nut? I've changed to a Tusq nut so who needs the fiddly fine tuners on the Floyd Rose?
Look for a 1 5/8” nut. There’s 3 or 4 different sizes that they come in. You should have no problem finding one. I think it’s a r2 or r3
Thanks for helping me decide on getting the Floyd R FRX for a SG. I didn’t want to put that ugly locking nut on. Now I’m not going to. I’d rather invest in locking tuners. Cheers 🍻
My Music Man Axis SS detunes if I even think about using the trem.
My Ibanez prestige with edge pro is impossible to detune.
Wouldn’t wanna risk loosing the locking nut. Just don’t lock and use the tremolo and you’ll see what I mean.
If you don't use the blocking nut... What's the point to use a floyd rose ? With bulkiness and everything ? A wilkinson, super vee or else couldn't fill the bill ?
Well yeah, you wouldn't perhaps make a guitar like this from scratch and for sure there are plenty of trems (including ones that Floyd Rose make) that are smaller and don't require a locking nut. But this video is more to show what happens when you modify a guitar with a floyd already on it to not have a locking nut.
For anyone who stripped the holes, since they are probably 4M .7 pitch merely retap the hole to an American pitch next size up. Same goes for stripped American pitch go to metric. You may have to ream out the locking caps but its an easy cheap fix.
You must be a wazard,all my floyd-rose equipped guitars go out of tune if I even think about playing them
😭
Is the trem floating?
What about tuning it? Is it just **tuning the floyd** everytime you go slightly out of tune? I'm just assuming you're using the headstock tuners to tune it, right?
Hey! Thanks for the video!
I know this is really late but I hope you see it still
Are you using the FR floating, blocked or dive only? I think leaving it blocked or dive only help a lot with the tuning stability, especially when bending. Not sure about the tuning stability when using it floating, but bending/trying to play bluesy double stop licks still go out of tune.
I'm wondering if you have your FR floating and just stay away from the double stop bending licks, or do you have it blocked or dive only? Thanks again!!
Hey Justin, no problem, glad you liked it! So I don't have this Guitar anymore, but I do have a PRS with a Floyd Rose and a Fender Strat with a vintage trem and I have both of them floating. And in terms of double stop licks, it's definitely more of a challenge with a floating bridge! You just have to develop a technique for bending both strings when you do it to keep it in tune. It is harder to play, but to me it's worth it if means you can go up and down with the whammy bar!
Getting a nut right is an artform. With a Floyd nut you have very limited options for getting it set up right, and it is uncomfortable on the hand. What the Floyd does at the bridge is brilliant, but I think the Guthrie way is the way to go now. When you convert a Floyd neck you sometimes get the added benefit of having a longer stringtravel behind the nut, especially on the low E which gives a lesser break angle = better tuning stability. If you need the dive bomb effect there is something to say for the locking nut, it just works more dramatic. FWIW
If the locking nut is too low, you can shim it to be as high as you need. If it's higher, shave off a bit of the base
That works if it's off by a small thousandths of an inch, but if it's off by way more(as the ones I bought were) it's not worth it
@@benforsey AliExpress? :)
What kind of pickups in your black Strat?
BareKnuckle Cobras. Gotcha...... :)
"Worst guitar playing you've ever heard on youtube"
Ummm... no. That's how whammy should go. Strumming, chords, and picking al good too.
Hi Ben.
Thanks for posting this video. I have been toying with removing the locking nut from my new Ibanez S series and going to a regular bone nut and locking tuners. This is the 1st video I’ve seen that showed that it could be done Was it very difficult to do?
Hello mate, thank you for your kind words I'm really glad it was helpful! I didn't do the job myself personally, but the luthier who did it made it sound very straight forward to be honest
Ben Forsey Great. Thank you for the quick response
Excuse-me but if you let the locking nut opened and use the bar, will it go out of tune? thanks.
Yes, more than likely it would. They're desgined to be locked whereas an normal nut is cut in a way to avoid the string getting stuck somewhere and thus going out of tune. But if your guitar's nut has been cut well and has been lubricated properly it should stay in tune. Locking tuners help too
How can I make that work on My guitar?
Contact a luthier who can carve a new nut and fit it for you
I find having just a roller nut works great with a locking trem.
Lsr?
someone needed to be told about shims for locking nuts.
Subbed :)
Thanks buddy!
You need to get rid of the string retainer bar. Its only function is to hold the strings flat against the locking nut so they don't get pulled sharp when you tighten the clamps down.
If you aren't using the locking nut then it serves no purpose, and is just another friction point. It isn't meant to be used as a string tree.
So very true and great advice 👍
If you pass the guitar to drop d. Does the bridge get instable?
Yes it does, but that's the same as any floating trem
But, does it still playable?
Something like "I know it isn't 90° but, still tuned"
@@klmgamesbr Oh no, it's not even close. If you change to drop D on a Floyd rose or floating trem it goes horribly out of tune unfortunately. EVH make a thing called a D-tuna that you can put on a Floyd to quickly change to drop D, that's worth checking out
@@benforsey i had one, but did not solve my tuning
I was Thinking to use black box, like Grovan uses
Or something similar
You can use a D-tuna, i personally have one on my super strat, but you must to deck the bridge so you will only do dive bomb or down pitch only.
I link this video so you will make an idea of what u need to do if you want a dtuna. that's because it doesn't work on a floating bridge and u can see tha all EVH guitar have the bridge lean on body and he only use it down pitch.
th-cam.com/video/UFL6I0y2Sf4/w-d-xo.html
I made it with a wood pieace instead of coins.
Get rid of that string retainer and add locking staggered tuners. It'll be perfect.
What tuners are you using?
way too long ago for me to remember sorry!
Chanelling some Terje Rypdal ? ;-)
Thanks for this. I agree about the nut materials make a huge diff. On the trem eating tone it's about the wood being carved out in the back as well. An evertune is even worse as the routing is even bigger
never knew lars ulrich played guitar
You made the same comment twice
And then there’s the Floyd guitars that don’t stay in tune even with a locking nut😂
it's like strings without guitar
The reason it sounds so much different between the locking and bone nut is that the locking nut is conductive and allows for more sustain while the bone nut doesn't
Lol wut
Try the NutBuster.
For anyone that's stripped any holes in the actual wood itself, stick a toothpick in it and break it off in the stripped holes. Not only for guitars, believe me it will come in handy!!!
Did that with both strap buttons on my LTD V-50 back in the day after they ripped out of the basswood body. I didn't even glue 'em in and the cheap repair has been solid for about 10 years or more, thanks to that working similarly to a drywall anchor.
Vintage trems are notoriously bad at keeping the g-string in tune, Floyds solve this (no movement behind the saddle because of locking). The Guthrie way is the optimal in my opinion.
black floyd rose, black body with white details, and maple neck looks awesome..! I think the silver floyd rose would take away from the beauty of the black strat
Been Microphone I think a rosewood or ebony fingerboard would look amazing
great looking strat, looks better without locking nut too. the locking saddles/bridge contribute a lot to stability, any decent tuners work, locking tuners are not locking anything they just clamp the string to the tuning peg, shoule be called string clamping tuners to avoid the locking myth hahahaha
Why not just keep the Floyd nut, remove the locks and oil it?
You could do, but I think a bone nut does make the guitar sound better. Not to mention a bone nut is often cut more accurately than a template Floyd Rose nut, so the guitar plays better too
If the nut was too low you could've just shimmed it... The nut height has nothing to do with the relief.
lok-n-roll.com. Better than the Floyd nut and the string grooves are on a shelf that sits on the fretboard just a hair so your string heights will all be correct. Awesome product...use it on all my guitars now.
you look like lars ulrich
Hmm super start with no humbucker, an impostor... Unless it's a secret humbucker
Ever heard of a shim? The nut that's too low can be shimmed up. No need to adjust truss or bridge height ever.
Dude. Shim. Wtf
Yeah have heard of it. I hate it personally. Seems like an ugly solution to the problem. And the locking nuts I had used in the past were so far off being the right size you would have needed several milimetres of shimming to make it work. Plus if the locking nut is too big shimming doesn't solve the problem
@@benforsey they are sized, R1, R2, R3, depending on nut widths of 1"5/8ths, 1"11/16ths, or 1"3/4ths.
If it seats too low, you shim with a precise cut maple shim. 1mm, 5mm, it doesn't matter. Once the small rear mounting screws are compressing the wood, the resonance the shim will be like its part of the neck.
There is an easy and fairly standard solution to your issue. There are only 3 typical nut widths, and your strat in most likely R2. All locking nuts are clearly labeled.
Believe me, Ben. I've been doing guitar setup since 1987.
Yes I am aware of the different sizes. I bought an R2 and R3 and they didn't fit. I even bought a different R2 that wasn't the same size as the other R2, so I gave up. I appreciatte your experience, but in my opinion and experience I don't think locking nuts are neccessary to make a floyd work
@@benforsey Hi mate, I have a original Floyd here that I bought about 7 years ago and am now fitting on a fender strat. It came with a r1 nut and checking against the original fender bone nut it lines up perfectly. I cant judge depth due to me needing to modify the neck to fit the locking nut but string spacing and edge of neck width spacing is bang on. After watching your video I think I might just fit the string bar and save the hassle of replacing the bone nut.
You could have just used the old locking nut and just changed the screws
Tried that man, the threads on the inside of the old locking nut were wearing out the threads on the screws.
Ben Forsey you could have tried to sand the bottom for the nut down to get the action
@@jumpybowl4743 Sand solid steel? I think you'd something a bit more powerful that sandpaper for that. I honestly think a bone nut is just a much more elegant solution to be honest. I think locking nuts are uneccessary
You have arrived lol.
could you not just have kept the locking nut, and simply not locked it down?
Gaad kas
Good job and good riddance of these annoying nuts.