How to make a SILENT Huanyang Variable Frequency Drive.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2018
- Are you sick of hearing the cooling fan running continuously in your cheap Chinese VFD? Are you tired of hearing your motors whistling? Here are two tips to make your workshop a quieter place. The solution is cheap and relatively easy to implement.
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Don't know if you still read old comments but i followed your recipe and it has made a huge difference in my shop. Many Thanks
That's great! I don't regret delving into the guts of my Huanyang. However, I recently purchased two Bosch Rexroth VFD's and they are only slightly dearer that the Chinese VFD's and as a bonus, you can turn the fan off or on or set it to auto in the configuration menu.
Regards,
Mark
I’m a mr. Pete subscriber and am now a subscriber of yours.😁
Excellent deconstruction of the problem and the solution!
Excellent solution to an annoying problem, especially as we get older, eh? Thank you for documenting it and taking us along for the journey!
Maybe I'm missing the point, but in my experience, as I get older, I cannot hear those annoying high frequency pitches. Everybody else is hugging the floor screaming "Phaser on overload!" and I'm just wandering around clueless. Who says a 360 watt car stereo system in 1986 can cause hearing loss...
Wow, just wow. That was epic. Same VFD, same noise. Thanks for the video.
Thanks. I can tell you that the fan on my VFD almost never turns on now. If I am making big heavy cuts with something like a large holesaw, the fan will turn on but it's a blessing to have the VFD turned on and silent. I recently purchased two Bosch Rexroth VFD's and they have options in the setup to turn the fan on permanently, off permanently or set to auto. The default is auto and neither fan has started on them even though one is fitted to my Colchester lathe and it works quite hard sometimes.
Regards,
Mark
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I did that same thing but put an 18 volt 5 watt zener diode across the thermal switch so the fan would run at 6 volts rather than not run at all. If the heat sink gets hot enough; the thermal switch sends 24 volts to the fan and runs it at full speed. At 6 volts the fan is almost silent but still moves some air, which helps maintain a more constant component temperature.
Ken, that sounds like a good plan. I must admit that on/off circuits are about as adventurous as I want to get when messing with mains operated gear. The VFD runs really well on my smallish drill press as it doesn't run for long and most times it isn't running particularly hard. I have had the fan cut in on a few occasions and that was when it was quite hot in the workshop and I was drilling lots of holes or large holes. I would think if you were using the VFD to power a pump or a large conveyor or something like that you wouldn't want the fan to be off at all. Running in standby mode as you suggested would be good.
Regards,
Mark
Brilliant work around! Hope the Chinese are watching your videos 😁
John, I despair sometimes at how the Chinese manufacturers almost get a good product to market but somehow they seem to fall short for want of few lock washers, a decent paint prep or a lack of deburring on some critical part that takes the skin off your knuckles. Having said that though, I think that we here in the global market are enjoying a golden age of affordable products. I doubt that it will last forever.
Regards,
Mark Presling
@@Preso58 For the low cost, who gives a shit if it only lasts a few years? Just chop the fan off it and bin it.
@@Preso58 I care how long things last! It seems to me that all the Chinese rarely exports anything quality, except for the quality of JUNK!
My opinion, of course..
I am tired of throwing my money at them. Tired, I say! I do feel that this trend is manufactured by their government and not directly by the individuals who produce the items. Their hearts are in the right place, but the business owners are strapped down because of the ingrained fear of their government.
Hi Mark, Good video.
I had a wry smile to myself as I watched how much time it took to do the modifications to the VFD.
What amuses me (and I'm as guilty as the next man) is how many hours of our time we are prepared to spend, to improve the way cheap Chinese products perform (both electrical and mechanical). ' IF' we costed our time, then it would probably be cheaper to just buy the more expensive 'European' product. Plus, we would get a users manual that was easy to comprehend.
But, there is much satisfaction to be had from modifying and improving equipment, plus we never realise just how long that 'simple little mod' will actually take! I'd also rather work for 4 hours in my garage, than work my day job to earn the difference in initial cost.
I have two cheap Chinese drives from Banggood, in my workshop;
The first runs a three phase Shaper machine. It ran perfectly straight out of the box, with no parameter set ups required, a quiet fan, no motor harmonics and an almost instantaneous start up.
I've just bought a second VFD for my mill, but this one has a loud fan and takes 5 -10 seconds to 'boot' up.
I think I will copy your bi-metallic switch mod!!
Cheers Paul in NZ
Paul,
I agree with your observation that time spent on upgrading inferior design has it's own merit. I take the view that even if I end up scrapping the part I have at least learned something that I otherwise would not have known. Also it is very satisfying when a project turns out to be a success. I rarely have the fan in the VFD turn on now and when it does I am reminded that the mod is working as intended. I am surprised that you were able to buy a cheap Chinese drive that worked straight out of the box and with such a short boot up time. I assumed that all those cheap drives were clones of each other. Mine initially seemed to be broken. The motor would only turn at 100 rpm or so and it sounded like it was very close to death. I found out (on TH-cam) that by default, one of the parameters was set to a ramp up time of something like 5 minutes. So of course it seemed like it was never going to get going. I'd be interested in finding out a link for the "good" VFD if you still have it.
Regards,
Mark
Can you say which is the drive that worked out of the box with fast boot time?
Wow I did the same modification to mine for my old mill. It’s nice to see I did it right.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was driven crazy by the sound of that little fan whirring away for no reason. Just recently, I had to drill a large number of large holes with a 25mm hole saw and it was a very hot day. I am happy to report that the fan switched on and did it's job although that's probably only the second time I have had the fan switch on since fitting the thermal switch.
Regards,
Mark
Nice job Mark. I have a very similar Huanyang drive running my lathe mill combo and yes the noise is bloody horrendous! Made worse by the fact that I'm in an 8 foot by 6 foot insulated shed! I must get round to doing the same mod to mine. Thank you for posting this. Cheers from ?England mate.
I also hated the sound of that little whirring fan. I knew it wasn't using much power but it just bothered me for some reason. Probably because I knew it was unnecessary for it to be running when the drill wasn't operating.
Regards,
Mark
Excellent Video. Massive thankyou. I'll be doing this for mine this week.
Thanks, I can tell you that the fan in my VFD has only ever started up once after I drilled a large number of holes with a step drill through some aluminium tubing on a very hot day. Other than that I never hear it run. Having said that it would depend on the application. Drill presses tend to run intermittently and often they do short runs at light duty. It might be different for applications like pumps or large fans.
Regards,
Mark Presling
@@Preso58 How did you come up with 45c being the right number for the sensor on this? Just a guess? What if they are meant to run cooler than that?
@@Sugarkryptonite it was just an educated guess. I actually bought several different sensors with varying temperature ratings. I chose the 45C because that's about the temperature in the workshop on a really hot day and as it turns out it is about right. The fan rarely turns on and the VFD is still going great after nearly three years of use.
Thank so much for your video . I will try to put one on my
Very good video, worth watching, thanks
Mark,
Nice video and nice modification. About 12 years ago I got an ABB 2.2 kW VFD. The fan was on continuously and was very noisy. I fixed it by changing fans to a modern silent computer fan. That was very quiet. A few years ago I got a 4 kW Huanyang VFD which was also noisy as you have found. I replaced that fan and problem was solved, because the fan supply was 24 V as you note, I put a resistor in series to limit the fan voltage to 12 V. The combination of your fan switching and a quieter fan would be the ultimate system.
Re changing the pwm frequency to eliminate motor noise. I use the ABB on a shock dyno and the Huanyang on a mill. Neither produce audible noise, at least to a deafo like me. however i have recently put a 5.5 hp motor on my lathe and that motor sings like crazy on a Huanyang which by default is set at 7 kHz pwm frequency. I made a dV/dt filter and that fixed the motor noise and gives an easier life to the motor. Like most things changing the frequency to reduce noise has its downside as well. A general way to look at it is "higher frequency is good for the motor but bad for the VFD" , you get more heating in the VFD due to the increased IGBT switching.
The noise of that fan used to really annoy me. Since doing the mod it has only ever run twice. On both occasions I was drilling lots of large diameter holes and it switched off after about 10 minutes. Some one recently pointed out that if the thermal switch fails it won't be obvious and the drive might fail due to overheating. He suggested I use a normally closed switch but It would make the switching more complex. I prefer my more expensive VFD's but the Huanyang works fine on the drill.
@@Preso58 Rather than changing to a NC switch you could just add another NO switch in parallel to the one that you have.
So far I have had no problems with my Huanyang, the general concensus seems to be that it is the best of the oriental offerings. As I am sure that you know the manual is total rubbish and the programming is tedious.
BTW I ordered a bunch of 45 deg switches which should be here in a day or two. My lathe motor has a noisy fan powered by it own motor, that fan is far worse than the VFDs and I'll be controlling that fan as per your suggestions as well as both VFDs.
regards
Tony Foale.
Apparently, beauty is in the ... ear... of the beholder.
... the end was GOLD XD
Thanks. Just purchased a pair of KDS9700, will be doing the mod for exactly the same reason!!
Cool! I hope it works out for you. I know that since I have done the mod on my drive the fan has never cut in and the drive is still functioning perfectly. Good luck.
Hi Mark thanks for making this video, I have a similar VFD on my lathe, and the noise has been my only gripe with it, I cannot hear the lathe motor over a tiny 40mm 12V fan. Being in the UK I can be a bit more conservative with the temperature 30C would be a pretty rare event here, I will be making the modification as soon as the switch arrives.
Thank you for your video
Great job
A good idea. Thank you. To be honest, I would have done it all with out taking it apart. In fact, I've just done it. I've got the same VFD. There is lots of room to work under the fan.
A Paper clip works great. Not the bent wire ones. A binder clip. They're spring steel. On in seconds and holds it firmly. Just clamp it onto a fin. No drilling. No glue.
It took my soldering iron longer to warm up, than to fit it. A few minutes to cut a wire and solder it in. Done.
I want to point out that I did it so quickly because I watched your video. Without your video I would have had to work out what was going on with it and come up with a way to sort it out. You took all of the hard work out of it. So, thank you.
I'm not criticising. Not at all. I'm a bit of a cheat. I read around, watch TH-cam and visit forums. Then. I steal the best ideas. I have no shame
I was going to use a strip of spring steel. Put a gentle bow in it to make a spring and use it to hold It between two fins. I saw something like it on the fins of the barrel on my chainsaw. I just happened to notice a springy paper clip .ready made for the job.
If anyone reads this I hope it helps them. A lot of people won't like taking it apart. Now they won't have to.
Best wishes.
Ha ha, I sort of came to the same conclusion after I spend so long delving into the guts of the box. There's no shame in taking the course of least resistance. Well done.
I have the same drive. Switches on their way from China. Thank you for this tip! I will definitely do it. I was considering switching the fan to something bigger and laying it on top. Did you consider that @Andrew George?
I have seen VFD installations online that are mounted in an enclosure with an air filter and a powerful fan.
Excellent mod, thank you! I noticed taking the plastic fan guard off reduces noise noticeably. I will do this mod however, because the fan is still too loud.
Hi ... & thanks for a very inspiring video. Having just bought a Huanyang VFD I definitely wished for the fan to quiet - and your video was most inspiring in this context. HOWEVER, I would like to suggest a simpler solution which is to: A. remove the plastic grill covering the fan and lift the fan up and out of the cabinet; B. Cut one of the wires connecting to the fan, and mount the thermoswitch inbetween these two wire ends (do not cut the other wire - just one of them). Then glue the thermoswitch onto the heatsink (I used epoxy) - it fits exactly inbetween two fins. This operation may take about 15 minutes - excluding epoxy curing time - and gives the same result. And one does not have to disassemble the VFD, drill a hole in the heatsink etc.
Hi, Unfortunately there are many variants of the Huanyang VFD. Some are actually clones of the clone and they all seem to have different variations of the plastic housing and protection of the heatsink. In my case the heatsink was pretty much totally enclosed by the plastic housing and I needed to dismantle it to get at the aluminium extrusion. I considered using epoxy to mount the thermal switch but after many heat cycles and differential expansion and contraction I figured that the epoxy would delaminate. This could happen and the operator would be unaware that the switch was no longer attached to the heatsink unless you inspected it. If the glue did fail the fan would not switch on, ever.... and then you could have a situation where it was needed due to excessive heat and it would not do it's job. The little clip that I made was more work but it should never fail. I did actually fit the switch in series with one of the power wires to the fan and I must say the drive is now totally silent but I have had the fan cut in, once. It was quite hot in the workshop and I had just finished drilling a large number of large diameter holes in some stainless steel sheet using a big step drill. The fan ran for about five minutes and then, like magic, it stopped again. I am guessing that you were lucky that your switch was a nice fit between the fins and this should reduce the likelihood of it getting dislodged. I hope you are enjoying the "sounds of silence".
Regards,
Preso
@@Preso58 Hi Mark. Pleased to read your feedback ;-) I am not that familiar with different versions of these Huanyang VFDs but the one I bought is a 2.2 kw version (HY series). And I most definitely appreciate the silence - although a CNC mill likely is never silent when used having the fan in the vfd on always without any real need for this really was disturbing. And now it appears to be always silent - indeed a relief! So many thanks for the inspiration - cheers ;-) ... Jesper
How are you going, Mr. Presling! - Quality Control at the HuanYang factory must have stepped in as they put silicone over all of the plugs and made the wire on the fan so short that it renders the door covering it useless as the fan won't pull out far enough to work on. Luckily, I was a micro-miniature repair tech in the Navy and know my way around the boards and can still implement your fix, or a combination of some of the really smart folks that have commented (i.e. a bull-clip to hold the thermal couple). Thank you for your video and approach to this nuisance.
Good video. You were in my suggested videos because I watch Mr. Pete, and you made some videos on the pull gear he is working on.
I could do without the loud music at the end of your videos though.
I hope you get many more subscribers.
You complain about 7 seconds of music???
@@Watchyn_Yarwood Not so much a complaint, but some input on what I liked or didn't like about the video.
Notice that my comment got a few thumbs up. So some other people probably agree with my comment.
If my comment got lots and lots of thumbs up, then the author of the video might consider making changes to future videos, to get more views/subscriptions/likes.
That’s good information to bear in mind. I’m waiting for delivery of a Banggood inverter. If noisy I know what to do. Cheers for sharing.
Derek, Hope it works for you. It certainly seemed to be a successful modification for my shop. Cheers.
Don’t it will break it
Good idea
So easy, thx.
It could be mounted into a little self made acoustic box with some air vents, since the unit is not likely to overheat at ambient depending where you live of course
The fan discharges the capacitors after use. Great care as shock may be possible. Also may start up faster.
I suppose a small air line off the shop dust collection system would draw air thru the VFD, and the noisy dust collection system would be functioning so anything you do will be cleaned up after right away.
Just a note of caution..... some of the manufacturers actually connect switch leads to case internally so you liven up the case when you energize. If the switch is inside shrink tubing it usually means that is the case with your switch.
EXACTLY! I had one of these rigged up on a heater and got a shock when the piece of shit engaged.
Nice vid. On larger drives they have a parameter that gives a read out on heat sink temperature. On drives over 75 HP they may have up to 3 cooling fans in drive and another one if using a 18 pulse drive. Some are very hard to replace. You could of nust got a 240 volt muffin fan and secured it to bottom of drive and remove 1 wire off noisy fan. Have duct taped muffin fans on bottom of drives that had a bad fan just to get by until it could be shut down. Used a box fan tied to milk crates to cool 40 to 100 HP drives in a pinch.
I have had a lot of viewers suggesting that I should swap out the fan for a different type but at the end of the day, having done the mod on the drive, the fan hardly ever runs. For the application that I am using it for, the drive hardly ever works very hard so having it remain completely silent is a bonus. It also saves energy! Although the drive is inferior to my better quality Invertek VFD, it was half the price and it's still working perfectly.
Regards,
Mark
I got some 12V auxiliary fans for a desktop computer some years ago. They have orange curved blades and are nearly dead silent. I got the larger diameter fans, I do not know how small they get. (Amazon? ) Since your fan blows on a heat sink, I guess the fan is not blowing on individual components which would not trigger your thermo switches.
Thumbs up for the thrashing metal dubstep!
The thing is, at 60 years of age, I do actually like listening to dub step. I have a son who used to change my shop radio to the local "youth" station and after a while I gave up changing it back to "my" station and now I only listen to hip hop, indie, grunge and electronica. I was kidding about the thrash metal though. I can't stand that crap.
Most of the VSDs or VFDs I work on have the heatsink fan at the bottom.
I think the theory is that the air at the bottom is cooler and therefore more dense, so more air can be pushed through the drive - possibly more efficiently.
The downside is that the fan or fans are harder to access due to the power and control cables always being in the way.
I get the feeling that the fan position and the control for it seems to be a bit of an afterthought on these Huanyang VFD's. The good news is that the fan hardly ever runs since the mod was carried out.
Regards,
Mark
@Preso58
Totally agree.
I just picked up a Harrison M300 lathe, ex RAN training school, and have converted the electrics to 240Vac with 24Vdc control.
I've used an Invertek (English made) VSD (similar to the one you've got). Oddly, this drive doesn't have any force cooling, totally dependent on natural convection.
Watching all your videos, very informative and interesting.
Loved the bridge !
Yup, I just mounted a Huanyang VFD to a lathe. Wow that fan is annoying! Good on you for sorting out a solution. I've done the same in the past with welders that only need fanning when you were pushing.
I just orderred a themo switch for this lathe.
So here's a thought, You could jump your themo switch with enough of a resistor to have the fan motor around at a quiet speed. Then if it will still blast if it needed to.
On a drill press I'd be surprised if you get it warm enough to bother though.
I'll let you know what resistor works if I get around to sorting that out.
Cheers
Arri, I have only ever had the fan start up once after I had drilled a number of fairly large holes with a holesaw. It was also a fairly warm day but now I can leave the VFD on for extended periods with it just idling and it is still functioning perfectly.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Good to know!
I would like to put a resistor across my thermo switch. Did you figure out what you needed to make the fan spin at a slower speed? I also thought about sending power to the fan when I am drawing power from the VFD but I haven't figured out which terminal to use for power or how to program a terminal to deliver power.
The custom PC market has quite a lot of options for quiet high performance fans. Brands like Noctua are worth looking into, though don't know what voltage these fans work on, probably 5-12v though
Precisely what I was going to recommend.
I agree that Noctua is a good brand, I myself replaced noisy fan in my 3D printer that had been actually replaced already once before with cheap crap that broke again, no issues with noctua so far and very silent.
But they don't achieve it with some magic technology, if you put chinese $1 fan next to noctua $10-20 fan and spin both at the same RPM, they will create pretty much same noise and noctua just few dB quieter at most.
What they do to achieve most of the difference is to reduce the RPM, this means that the amount of air that those can push is reduced as well.
This means that whatever you're trying to cool, Noctrua will cool it less, in worst case your device might overheat.
So be aware of this and check the temperatures before and after to make sure all is good.
Good video. Only on youtube, a film in 3 acts. Climax of act 1, the fan that didn't start. Climax of act 2, the 4 khz noise that didn't appear. Climax of act 3 - the fan that stopped. I don't think HBO will consider this a direct replacement for Breaking Bad, but I enjoyed it.
Thanks. To quote Jessie Pinkman "Yeah, science bitch!" 😁
There are some computer fans that move lots of air but are dead silent.
It would be nice to have a thermocouple on the heat sink with a readout where you can see the temp.
The efficiency of modern electronics is very impressive. In the old days, just the power supply for a drive could put out enough heat to bake a cake.
Good video, good idea. But be aware, that KDS9700 has NOT insulated housing. In application shown it does not matter much, but if you want to connect Huanyang VFD to external (CNC) controller, you'll end with a voltage shift (on ground on VFD) and the system will not work properly. Measure, check, recheck - if suitable for your application, splendid. I installed KDS on 2 of my VFDs - and was happy with this solution until I connected the VFD to the controller. Had to remove both.
Thanks Jan,
I didn't expect that I would be connecting this VFD to a CNC controller but it might be relevant for others.
Regards,
Mark
This is a fairly easy fix for the fan noise. Installing a different fan would work as well, though may be more expensive. On to the carrier frequency... Yes it can be changed to reduce any noise from the motor. However, you risk damaging the motor by increasing the frequency too high. We had found this at work where someone didn't like the noise from a 500 hp motor on a plastic extrusion machine. The motor has failed, shorted windings, due to heat issues 3 times in the last 2 years. Very expensive repairs for someones' dislike of extra noise. There were other issues that helped the motor failures along, but one of the main ones was the carrier frequency was set to 10 kHz. So just be careful with this setting as it can induce extra heating in the motor windings.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. So far I have not heard the fan switch on once and I did some fairly heavy drilling operations for another video I was doing. I have also been monitoring the motor temperature (by holding my hand against the frame) and for what I am doing, it never gets more than warm. I can imagine that in an industrial environment it would be a different ball game all together.
higher switching frequency (carrier frequency) does result in more heat generated in the motor and the VSD, it's the number of times the IGBT's are switching on and off per second, the transition from off to on and on to off is when IGBTs generate heat on the heat sink.
You can safely go higher on smaller VSDs generally speaking, 12 or even 16kHz shouldn't be an issue.
A plastic extruding machine would be constant torque load and typically at full rated load of the motor most of the time.
Bigger VSDs over about 110kW do not usually run a switching frequency above 2 or 2.5kHz in my experience.
(almost a decade in VSD service).
you need extra openings in the bottom of the case to improve air movement
Well, as it turns out, the fan hardly ever runs. It has only switched on a few times on really hot days when I have been drilling a lot of large diameter holes. It will run for about 20 minutes and then shut down.
Regards,
Mark
Nice idea ...I think cooling fan should working when inverter is running not defend on temperature.
I think Mitsubishi inverter has those kind option. I don't understand why the Huanyang ignore that option.
I have recently purchased two Bosch Rexroth VFD's and the fan can be set to three different modes in the parameters. Always on, always off or auto which I assume is temperature dependent. The fan on my Huanyang almost never starts unless it is a very hot day and I am using some big drill bits or holesaws. It seems to suggest that for intermittent use, the fan is mostly redundant.
Regards,
Mark
I have one of these low end vfd, I will do this mod. A digital temp with a probe sensor would give a idea of the current heat at the moment also. Where did you get the bimetal bit?
I got the sensors on Ebay Australia. Link is here www.ebay.com.au/itm/KSD9700-Temperature-Switch-Thermostat-Thermal-Protector-Normally-Closed-Open-MO/201993260718?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 These are really a heat activated switch. In practice the fan in my drive has never switched on since I installed the switch. I guess it would be interesting to find out the temperature of the heatsink but I am thinking it wouldn't be necessary.
At the 7:00 mark it looks like the intake side of the fan is very close to the heat sink fins. That closeness will in itself make a lot of extra noise.
Can you share where you got your start/stop speed control panel that is mounted to the press?
I have 2 comments and one is about safety. The plastic shrouds and isolation sheets are there because the 110/240v side has to be separate from the user operated side of the circuit. If that switch you installed is case negative or something, you could have connected the high voltage switching circuit back to the user side, potentially leaving 110/240/380v or god knows how many under those thin membrane switches. I really hope you are considerate about safety because a crappy 70$ VFD is not the only loss possible here when playing with mains. On another note, that to220 with 2 legs could just be a weird fuse, of could just go directly on a pulldown transistor or inverter, might not even be connected to the micro, more like, it turns everything completely off including the power rail of the micro. That's more effective as safety
With regards to safety, I just went and checked the switches I purchased for this modification and the case is isolated from the two switch wires so there is no danger of line voltage finding its way to the fan. The fan, and its shroud are insulated so once again there is no danger of leaking voltage. I did not really alter any of the structure of the VFD except for drilling one hole in the heatsink. I believe the TO220 package is in fact a heat sensor since documentation states that the digital display is capable of showing the temperature of the VFD however I couldn't find the correct settings to make this happen. So far the mod has been a success and just two days ago I had to drill a large number of holes in some stainless steel sheet and the cooling fan started up as I expected it to but that is the first time I have heard it run since installing the switch.
@@Preso58 Current ads also show the temp sensor so they can compare theirs to a knockoff. Also the HY has two current sensors while the knockoff has only 1.
There is more than one way to skin a cat!!! My method was to stick the temperature switch to a pencil eraser then sliding it down the fins from the fan opening. The eraser provides a clamping force between the plastic case back forcing the switch tightly up to to the heat sink. So no need to take the drive to pieces so preventing electronic disasters that could be waiting around the corner, by the way taking one of these drives apart it is recommended to take some form anti static precautions. I used this method two years ago with no problems, though I am sure that there are other methods to achieve the same end results.
I was dealing with an unknown quantity. Now that I know what is inside I can see that there would be plenty of ways to get the same result without risking the innards by taking it apart.
Regards,
Mark
Mark, I think they changed the design. Mine (3h.p. unit) has a larger (understandably) fan and is very quiet. The carrier frequency setting did the trick! Some units can be set to control the fan settings according to the frequency settings, min and max.. Thanks, -Tom
Thanks for the feedback Tom. I did notice what looked like a temperature sensor but I don't know enough to reverse engineer what it might be for. I will have a look at the manual to see if there is anything in there about controlling the fan but, you know, the translation is difficult to follow.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 oh yes....the mauals....crazy....I stay in a constant state of frustration, plus I am not the electronics wizard. I must apologize about the 2.2kw unit I have. It does have the same fan and does make some noise. I just didn't realize how much until you called that out....😁. Very sorry to mis-inform you. I was going on memory when I sent you the note. Thank you for you most wonderful, methodical, and professional actions (I mean that). -Tom
Curious how often the fan would come on had you used the 35c sensor rather than the 45c .
I would think a dab or two of JB weld would hold the sensor top side rather than having to dismantle and drilling holes for a clip etc.
Great video thank you .
Angus, there are some days when the ambient temperature inside my shop is 35C so the fan would just be on all the time. I am sure that there are easier ways of mounting the sensor and from what I have seen, some variants of the Huangyang VFD have the heatsink totally exposed so it would be quite easy to mount it with a good adhesive.
Regards,
Preso
And FWIW if you put 500 ohms across the thermo switch leads the fan motors around enough to encourage air movement but is next to silent.
Arri, thanks for that. I must say I was so grateful when I found a way to shut it up that I just left it alone after that.
Regards,
Mark
If it makes you feel any better, I have an Allen-Bradley VFD on my drill press that has a fan that always runs. Was so annoying I just disconnected the fan altogether. As a hobbyist, I never run the drill press hard/long enough to "work" the VFD anyways.
That is exactly what I am starting to realise. Since fitting the temperature sensor I have never had the fan start up so the heatsink is never getting more than warm during the times I use the machine.
I’ve got a leeson vfd that also has a constant loud fan, when it’s first started and it’s cold the bearings get rough and the fan slows down and makes a grinding noise (just like both my welders lol). Only part that gets warm is the plastic over the capacitor bus
I've run into this before and here is my go to solutions: I use a 3 wire NC/NO relay controlled by the thermal switch. Connect the NO directly to the fan and the NC side to a voltage regulator going to the fan. I use 5 volt regulators for 12 volt fans and 9 volt regulators for 24 volt fans. This runs the fans all the time but at low speeds that are very quiet. You are still moving air over the cooling fins so it takes longer for it to get hot enough for full power.
The other version of this is to use a 4 wire PWM fan. Connect the PWM wire on the fan through a NC thermal switch to the fan ground wire. Some PWM fans have a minimum speed when the two are shorted. I tend to use these. If the fan totally stops, you can put a small resistor of the correct value inline to achieve a low speed. I use a potentiometer to find the right value then replace it with a resistor of the same value. Does this hurt the fan? Not really. I have some 48 volt PWM server fans that I run on 24 volts with the PWM wire shorted. They run at a few hundred RPMs whisper quiet and have been running 24/7 for 6 or 7 years now with no issues.
Merlin,
the funny thing is, that since I did this upgrade on the VFD, the fan has never switched on. This makes me think that it is included "just in case" or maybe I don't run the drill for long enough or hard enough to create any heat in the heatsink. I think that in some applications where the motor is running for long periods under high loads then the fan would be needed.
Mark Presling The VFD fan on my bridgeport kicks in all the time when I do long runs under heavy load. Like you said, it comes down to duty cycle. I figured I post those solutions for the heavier users. P.S. Thanks for showing that tangential tool holder in your videos. Been looking to make one and your close ups helped me work out the geometry.
Hey mate! Great content. I've recently received one of these huanyang VFDs as part of my CNC kit. I was going to mount this unit lying down inside a cabinet to be located underneath the CNC inside the purpose built table. Instructions I see online says tooint the VFD vertical, like you did. But you did mention that, if not pushed hard enough, it should be ok with natural ventilation. Not sure if this changes if mounted horizontally? Any advice? Thanks in advance (from Sydney).
I wouldn't think mounting it horizontally would affect the cooling. After I made the modification to the fan power supply I think the fan has only ever started up on two occasions. On both of those times, it was a very hot day and I was cutting large diameter holes with a big holesaw. For normal drilling it doesn't seem to even get warm. However it might be different if you were driving a 2.2kw spindle motor.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 thanks for the prompt response Mark. I'll give it a go and see how it turns out. If it gets too toasty then will have to re-strategise.
I was going to look into getting a fan from Noctua as they are industrial and quiet but now idk, id like to have it off like this.
I must say, this is one of the more successful modifications I have made in my shop to date. The fan actually switched on for the first time a few days ago when I had to drill 64 large diameter holes in some stainless steel sheet with a step drill. It was a fairly hot day too so that might have something to do with it. I also watched a video by rolingmetal who said that his Huangyang VFD blew up and he suspected it was because he had disconnected the fan altogether. At least mine has the fan as backup when it is needed which is apparently not very often.
Hope you mod goes well.
Regards,
Preso
@@Preso58 Yeah honestly I am on my 4th VFD lol because 2 blew up prior
Maybe the sweatshop where the drives are made is too hot to test the cooling fan?
Hi Mark, I assume in your drill press set up you are using 240v single phase. I saw you were using 3 phase on your mill. I was under the impression VFD were for only for 3 phase! Is your drill press motor a cap start or is it something other? Good tut by the way
Peter, I converted my drill press to a 240V three phase motor and installed the VFD to give me variable speed. It has a three step poly vee belt drive as well but having the variable speed is great for things like countersinking bits where slow speed reduces chatter. There is very little torque at the lower speeds though. Recently I made and installed a pull gear which gives a roughly 4:1 back gear.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 thanks Mark. I did not know we could get three phase 240v motors? I think my son may have mentioned it once (he's a sparky) but I would have thought he was talking about 440v as we were discussing a VFD for my mill and its the latter. I'm in WA, what state are you in?
If your shop warms up to 35C (95F) it's quite reasonable that the fan on the electronics run continuously.
Does this drive also have a parameter to monitor the heatsink temperature?
Not that I could find. As you are aware the manuals are not that easy to understand!
@@Preso58 That is putting it mildly. ;-) I have a 3KW unit from them and it does not make as much noise. When you had the fan out, yours was quieter so my guess is that part of the noise of yours is from the housing. As mine is sitting out in the open, it means that it is easier to get at. My fan is directly mounted on the heatsink and has no plastic around it. It is also sold as an updated version and has some things that older ones didn't it seems. Mine can run on 110/120, 50 or 60Hz, and single or three phase. But no fan temp control. It does have 3 rather large capacitors where others I have seen only had two. Now if I can just figure out how the get the built in pot to run at full frequency I'd be all set. Auto run goes to 400KHz while manual only goes to 230KHz. And yes, I can set the upper limit on PD172 to 460.
Mine matches the one dynoguy has in his video except the input voltage. th-cam.com/video/9wJI33NhdhU/w-d-xo.html
While you were in there, you should have upgraded the fan itself as well. Those chinesium imports almost always come with low cost low quality ball bearing fans, a higher cost, well made pin bearing fan will run longer, and smoother, with little to no "rattling" as you'll eventually get from the low cost ball bearing types. (you can also switch to a high CFM fan to increase the air flow, cooling things off faster, that means the fan will be on less, but will be a bit louder when it is on)
As it turns out, the fan almost never starts up on this VFD since including the thermal switch. Probably because the drill motor is only used intermittently and it's generally only lightly loaded. If the drive were running a pump or a fan it would probably get hot enough to need the extra cooling. I was drilling a lot of holes with a large holesaw on a fairly hot day and the fan did kick in but that's probably the only time.
Regards,
Mark
Just pop the grille for the fan, pull the fan out, stick the sensor to the backplane of the heat-sink (not the fins) with Arctic Silver, interrupt the red fan lead and splice-in the two wires from the sensor, insulate with heat-shrink tubing, re-assemble and Bob's your uncle!😂
I didn't know what i was dealing with when I decided to pull the case apart. I can now see that there were less intrusive ways of installing the switch. Still, pulling things apart is both thrilling and scary at the same time.
Regards,
Mark
I’m looking to purchase a VFD for my 2 hp mill and I’ve been quoted about $550. CDN for a VFD. Now that’s expensive. I’m not going to pay that although I may because it’s included in a motor package. There are other factors holding up my purchase right now or I would have the motor and VFD. I’m not an electrics guy and I need to rely on the skills of others in this department. I intend to set up the VFD on a bench before I assemble the bits on the mill then just install what I need along with some remote switching.
The manual that comes with most of the Chinese VFD's are not exactly well written but there is a wiring diagram in the front of the book that is fairly easy to follow. Some of the Chinese VFD's come preconfigured with a very slow ramp up time which makes it seem like the motor or the VFD is faulty. Changing just that one parameter makes all the difference.
Regards,
Mark
awesome video, glad I found your channel. could do with out the music at the end though
Yeah, sorry about that. My pathetic attempt at making a joke.
Thanks Mark, there’s a lot more stuff jammed in that box than I realised. Maybe it’s just me but I can’t help thinking that your solution is way over engineered, why not just get a decent quality quiet fan and connect the original fan wires to it. If the new fan won’t fit into the original mounting hole it can be mounted externally on top of the housing. Just my thoughts. Cheers Stuart 🇦🇺
I guess it's a sort of OCD thing. I sometimes walk out and forget to turn the drill off at the wall. I would worry about a fan running non stop overnight. Until I dismantled the case I didn't realise how deep I would have to go into the guts to mount the thermal switch and I was pretty much committed to the mod by then. The good thing is that the fan does do it's thing if I run the drill hard and the rest of the time it just sits there and behaves itself.
Regards,
Mark
Could you wire the fan to the UPF terminal (which is a 24VDC 100 ma terminal) and program PD052 to setting 3 (fault indication). When the invertor gets hot, it will signal an over temperature condition and trigger UPF which would then turn the fan on. I don't know if the invertor shuts down on over temp, so this may not work?
Thomas, I was very keen to have the least invasive fix for the fan that I could. I'm not exactly confident with the sort of electronics that inverters use. I can say that since making the modifications to the VFD, the fan has only ever started up twice. Both times it was a very hot day and I was drilling a lot of holes with large diameter bits. It actually surprised me when the fan started up. It ran for about 30 minutes and then shut down again. So, I am quite happy with how it has worked out. It has proven to be automatic and the VFD is now over six years old and apart from the long boot up time I am quite happy with it.
Regards,
Mark
Hey, isn’t it possible to connect the fan to the output for the spindle, so if you run the spindle, the fan will be activated?! Or is it already heating up without running the spindle?
Unfortunately, the fan runs from a 12V DC rail on the inverter logic board and the spindle in my case is 3 phase AC so it would be necessary to use a relay to make it work. As it turns out, the fan has never actually turned on since I did the mod on this drive. I believe that the heatsink never actually gets that hot with the sort of intermittent drilling that i do. I would think that if you were running a heavy lathe or milling machine spindle you would generate a lot more load and heat but the sensor that I fitted would switch the fan on when it was needed.
Maybe A little rubber wheel mounted in the drill press so when it's turned in, the rubber wheel turns, driving a shaft that comes out the housing of press, flywheel on the other end with a small belt running another wheel on the shaft of the fan. There you go. Not terribly efficient but run off the drill press spindle itself....
Most electronics should be kept in the 40C range so you should have used no more than a 35C thermistor
As for carrier frequency 8 is standard for any 230v / 240v motor with a max of 10 above that you would have to watch for motor overheating
How did you wire in the start stop switch and how did you program it in?
You can wire in a start stop and reverse switch via the terminal strip inside the bottom cover of the drive. You also need to add a jumper wire between two of the terminals but it's a bit difficult to explain here. If you have the original user manual it will show the function of each terminal and where to add the jumper to run an analogue speed control and the start/stop switch.
Question: do you run your VFD's/motors over 50 Hz? I run mine up to 120 Hz and have experienced no issues. I run a rather low ratio and then overspeed to get the faster speeds. This eliminates some of the torque issues on bigger drill bits.
Eric,
I run my VFD up to 80Hz but the pulleys on my drill press were optimised for 50Hz so getting really high speeds in not an issue. It's getting good torque at low speeds that I find elusive. If I were starting with a 3 phase motor and a VFD I would have chosen pulley ratios that were much different. Such are the problems when you start tinkering!
I had a similar problem with my computer cooling fans. I found I could replace them with quiet or silent fans. That might be a simpler solution.
Yes, a quieter fan would be better than having the noisy fan that the VFD came with but in reality the fan is almost never needed. I have only ever had the fan operating on a few occasions when it has been very hot in the workshop or when the drill press has been cutting a lot of very large holes. I guess it cuts down on electricity costs too.
Regards,
Mark
One idea I had was to use the built in relays of the VFD to turn the fan on when the spindle starts. That's currently how I'm controlling my air for chip evacuations but I still have the NC relay on the VFD not being used. I could use that to trigger another relay. Kinda a stupid way to do it but it would work and I have everything to do it. After watching your video I almost think I could get away with not having the fan at all but I dont really like that idea. I'd really like to do what you did but really dont want to have to unmount and open up my VFD again. I think I could get to the fan wires from the outside and just splice in a longer lead back to the relay. Anyone have any input on this idea?
Mike, since doing that mod I have only ever had the fan turn on twice. On both occasions I was drilling a lot of large holes on a hot day. In hindsight I could have pressed the sensor in between two fins of the heatsink using something like a U shaped spring from stainless steel sheet or brass and then smeared it with some epoxy to keep it in place. I too was a bit apprehensive about digging that deep inside the guts of the VFD but the fins might be easier to get at depending on how your case is designed. The fan on my VFD is easy to get out and the wires come out with it so you don't need to open the case for that step. If you have an external relay capability that would be a good solution.
Regards,
Mark
Which sensor do you need to rebuild the Frquenz Inverter u have.
Since Paul.
Paul, I used these - KSD9700 Temperature Switch Thermostat Thermal Protector Normally Closed Open MO. Here is a link to the original Ebay listing. www.ebay.com.au/itm/KSD9700-Temperature-Switch-Thermostat-Thermal-Protector-Normally-Closed-Open-MO/201993260718?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Hello,
I have the same type of inverter with 2.2 Kw power but not noise problems like yours.
My problem is related to the use to power a milling machine, connected directly to it and using the buttons of the inverter to turn on or off. If I use the machine button (as you do with the drill) the inverter gives me an error.
How did you connect the drill to your inverter?
Are you sure you have a single phase to three phase drive? I have read that some people inadvertently get hold of a single phase to single phase inverter. They can look identical on the outside. When you open the cover to expose the connections you should see terminals for earth U, V and W. These should be connected to your three phase motor. On the other side you should see terminals for the single phase input, R for active and S for neutral, the earth should be common for both the motor and the input. You also need to make sure you set the inverter with the voltage, base motor frequency and the power of the motor before you try to run the motor for the first time.
Regards,
Mark
Mark, do you have 3 phase power in your shed now. Regards Frank
Frank, unfortunately I don't have 3 phase power in my shed. When we built our house we put the mains connection underground and because we were on a tight budget we used the lightest cable we could get away with and the smallest conduit as well. We live on acreage and the house is a long way from the street frontage so short of running 3 phase above ground and putting in several poles, I don't think it's going to be an option.
Regards,
Mark
Hello,
I have the right inverter, the connections are right, but I can't understand how to make the remote connection in order to use the cutter with its start. Currently I have to keep the machine switch on and start it by turning on the inverter. I wish that with the inverter on, I could use the cutter motor with its on / off button.
You will need to fit a switch in a remote location or use your existing machine switch and then wire it to the inverter terminal strip. You also need to change some parameters to enable remote switching. This article might help www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/huanyang-vfd-on-a-bridgeport-clone.36144/
Regards,
Mark
How about switching the fan out with some less noisy
You could do that but the solution I have now means that the fan almost never switches on at all. I think it has run on just a few occasions when I was drilling some large holes with a hole saw and a when I was doing a lot of holes on a very hot day. If it is needed, it cools down relatively quickly.
Regards,
Mark
I tried a VFD on my lathe to give it variable speed, but found the efficiency of the motor dropped off very quickly outside of the range 40 -75 Hz, it was so bad it tripped the VFD's current overload, with only the motor turning at about 120 hz
I recently bought a Bosch Rexroth VFD for my Colchester lathe. It was only slightly more expensive than the Chinese versions but it has a manual written in English and some very cool features. I read some dire warnings about using the variable speed functions of VFD's to control the lathe spindle speed. The issue is that at very low motor speeds the oil is not circulated inside the geared head and it doesn't take long to run the main spindle bearings dry. I set my VFD to run at 50hz and vary the spindle speed with the quick change gearbox. On the drill press it's not really an issue but you are correct about the torque dropping off alarmingly at low frequencies. I ended up fitting a 7:1 pull gear (a planetary gearbox) to the motor to reclaim some torque at the low speeds.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I was not after running the motor slower as I wanted to easily increase the speed for facing of larger diameter stock to maintain the quality of cut. It not so much the torque but the current drawn by the motor. I put an ammeter in series with the motor. With just the motor and gearbox spinning the current drawn at 50 hz was a nominal .75A. The rest were, 40hz-2.5A 60hz-1.5A 70hz-3.5A 80hz-4A 90hz 5.5A , around 95Hz the VFD would trip on overcurrent. I didn't measure the power factor so not sure of the actual power. But this was enough to tell me that the motor was not suitable to be run from a VFD. I abandoned the idea as the most I could get was about a 20% variation in the speed. I did a bit more research and to guarantee proper running on a VFD the motor needs to be designed for it (lots of money). It was a single phase 1 HP motor. One day I will do the same testing on a 3 Phz motor and VFD
What kind of motor do you run on your drill press
Electric motor....
If you think that VFD is noisy watch my video Noisy variable speed drive It is the first generation Toshiba VFD and if adjust the settings my warranty will be void.
Yes, just watched that and it would drive me nuts. It seems like you did get some good advice though. I found that changing the carrier frequency helped with my VFD's.
Man, what's the cost, I mean if it's first generation, it seems like it may have a bit of time on it already, and potentially reaching it's warranty limit.
Has the change proven successful after 2 years of operation?
Yes, absolutely. The fan rarely switches on. Just recently we had a really hot day and I was doing some drilling with a 25mm hole saw in some thick carbon fibre. I was surprised when the fan started up. It ran for about 15 minutes after I shut the drill down and went quiet again. I use the drill press almost daily and the VFD has been quite reliable. I used to hate having the VFD switched on before I did the mod on it because the fan was quite noisy. It probably draws very little power but it's a bit like walking into the kitchen and finding the fridge door open. I probably went a bit overboard with mounting the sensor. You could probably just jam it in between two fins of the heatsink with a bit of wood and it would work as well.
Regards,
Mark
The fan is a permanent magnet motor if you swop it out for a fan with an induction motor they run quiet
they could have written code to leave the fan off until 50c but what if the chinesium thermistor failed?
Good point. The switch I added in should be fairly robust though. No semiconductors to fail.
Did you consider a different fan?
Not really. The whole idea was to eliminate the noise of the fan rather than to reduce it. Since doing the modification, the fan has really only cut in once or twice.
Regards,
Mark
I take it you live in United Kingdom and you set it on 240 V is this correct if so please let me know thank you
Mark, I live in Australia and my shop power is 240V 50Hz.
Regards,
Mark
23:07 Fans can be really nasty. One time it hit really good so a string of blood shot out my finger lol.
I am just curious ..... Why didn't you replace the fan with a quiet model?
Many people have asked this. My aim was to configure the fan so that it only ran when necessary. I have some high quality Invertek and Bosch Rexroth VFD's and they can have the fan configured in the settings so that it only runs when the heatsink temperature rises above a preset level, or permanently on or permanently off. Since carrying out the modification on the Huanyang drive, the fan has only ever run on a handful of occasions. Usually on very hot days or when I am using large diameter holesaws for extended periods of time. This sort of indicates that for normal use on a drill press, the heatsink can cool itself using just ambient air surrounding the fins. On day to day use, the fan never switches on at all so I guess it is an energy saving as well.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Thanks for sharing .. Stay safe and well...
you could replace that crappy fan with a noctua fan and remove the need to tear the drive apart as they are silent. i have 13 of them in a pc 2 feet from my head all day long and never notice them since new in 2012.
Wjy not replace the fan?
Well, the fan was fine. It just doesn't need to be on all the time. In fact it has never switched on since I did the upgrade which makes me think that some applications for a VFD don't use enough energy to warrant assisted cooling for the heatsink.
23:07
Mark, yeah, don't stick your fingers in rapidly moving fans. To be fair though, I think the sun was in my eyes! 😁
Regards,
Preso
ARE YOU SURE THAT SENSOR CAN CARRY THE LOAD OF THE FAN?
Absolutely. My upgrade is still fine after nearly three years of daily use.
@@Preso58 I am surprised, I would installed a small relay to carry the load.... good for you. Good job.
yeah don't put your fingers in the fan, it will getta ya every time.
Ok
23:00 Why does it say “FOOOD”? I must be hungry.
omg it's so much louder and more painful at 8khz. why would you change that?
Maybe it's not evident on the video but up close it sounds less shrill.
Regards,
Mark
Just be careful because in some components the fan is designed to cool more than just the heat sink. Those type of components may require the fan to be running constantly. Cheap Chinese gear is notorious for not handling heat well and bad thermal design. In this case, I think you are fine, but in other components I would select a better designed fan that is whisper quiet and have it run continuously. They make fans that pull similar air that are nearly silent these days. Just make sure the CFM and pressure the fan handles are equivalent.
Brent. If I do fry the drive I will purchase a better quality one like the Invertek drives on my mills. I did run the drill press quite hard one day for around 10 minutes and the fan didn't kick in. It is winter here in Australia and the shop temperature is around 20C so it might be different in the middle of summer (35+)
How cold does it get in winter there in Australia? I just can't picture kangaroos hopping through snow....