Playing Half Life 2 in VR currently. With the Valve knuckle controllers, A button is Drop the mag and B is launch the grenade. I have killed myself in many firefights, when under pressure and needing to reload and forgetting what does what.
The biggest problem games have with balancing military tech is that the tech is actively designed to be unbalanced and give the user an unfair advantage; being on the receiving end of those unfair advantages is counterintuitive to making a MP game fun, but allowing them makes the game a power fantasy for those good with them.
You'll find even in simulation games, UNLESS they're PvE (and often even then) weapons are often balanced to make the user experience more fun for both sides. @@TheLukio
@@AttiliusRex And every last one of them is complained about ad nauseum on forums for every military shooter that includes them; the average casual player just doesn't find playing against them to be fun, no matter what explanation the "military fanboys" (like myself) say to explain it or argue why it's working as intended.
@@TheLukio "Anything but realistic simulation is a casual game" is a weird take. There are some very intense, competitive games that are very much not simulation games.
This man is single-handedly keeping gamespot afloat. And also thank you dude for introducing new people to guns and bringing education in guns to an audience that may not have known these things.
Except S.T.A.L.K.E.R haha anyone seen the video of the Ukrainian soldier telling his mate " I'm telling you I can hit anything with the grenade launcher thanks to S.T.A.L.K.E.R, pick a target and I'll hit it" his mate doesnt believe him so he shoots the tree 200m away and bam he hits it and starts laughing, " I told you I could suka"...... one of the best videos.
I love the Splinter Cell series use of the launcher. Sure you can launch grenade, but you could also launch a noise making camera that farts out sleeping gas. You can even retrieve the un-gassed ones to reuse them.
It will always be the Pro Pipe in Halo :) One of my favorite weapons in Reach, it was quite satisfying getting the timing of the remote detonation in flight correct.
That’s a great one. The first machine gun unlock in bf2042 has some great variants like armor piercing which is satisfying to use to make armor panic or take out robot dogs. Too bad they nerfed the ammo capacity and also the effectiveness of the under barrel shotgun master key.
Reach's grenade launcher also has 2 firing modes, making it even more of a skill weapon. Tapping the trigger makes it work more like a frag grenade, bouncing once before detonation. Or, you could hold the trigger to put it into EMP mode, allowing it to detonate when you release the trigger in exchange for a smaller blast radius. I miss Reach's grenade launcher :(
Battlefield Bad Company 2 probably had the best use of rifle grenades as it was a good, simple and fun way to remove people who hid behind walls. One well aimed grenade and both the wall and the player behind it were gone =)
Born in '77 USA and in my childhood the words M-16 with M 203 grenade launcher were ingrained in my head as the pentultimate realworld weapon combo. To watch it appear and evolve in games is dreams come true.
You would think that, but it's actually a lot harder because it's not so much faster that it looks and acts different but it's fast enough that it messes with your muscle memory and you can't hit anything. Also you don't have any lifelines because if you miss the grenades just break and do nothing. Even if you hit something the blast radius is also tiny so you can't even really hit multiple targets effectively with it. Overall if you have any accuracy with stock or the Iron Bomber it's nearly impossible to use. Sincerely - A demo main
I'd love to see an episode covering the terms "sidearm", "pistol", and "handgun." What are the differences? Are they interchangeable? Do some countries or militaries have different definitions for them? And of course how do games portray them, and are they accurate?
Thanks Dave, Jonathan and team. It was great to see clips from both Half Life and Far Cry 2. In FC2 I love using the M79 as a defence against all those pesky patrol jeeps, just as shown in the clip. Then, towards the end of the game. the tables are turned and I can get a jeep with an automatic grenade launcher :)
One game that really used grenade launchers a ton was just cause 3, when half of the gameplay is just about blowing stuff up a grenade launcher is the best way to do it. Even with flashier weapons available I ended up using a grenade launcher a lot, because it was pretty reliable at starting the satisfying chain reactions of that game.
Loved playing pool with a grenade launcher. Taking out helicopters too.* *This is important because when using a gun the helicopter will dodge. It will not when using a grenade launcher.
Rising Storm 2 did a very good job with the M79 imho. Since it's a team based game one squadmember is assigned to the weapon, with basically only a Colt1911 as secondary. It also allowed diffrent types of ammunition combinations.
I was always bothered by the grenade launcher in Half Life 1, the way it showed a round tumbling out of the tube was very impressive but also very wrong
It makes sense that games would have a hard time balancing grenade launchers. It's like trying to balance mortars or vehicle mounted weapons. They're there to do a job small arms can't. It's also notable that militaries can get grenade launchers "wrong", too, in a sense. Ukraine and Russia currently use GMGs as substitute artillery--mortars--or something in between that defies classification. These GMGs come with sights for this purpose. Other militaries do not expect their GMGs to be used in this way. The US marines, instead, used theirs to pummel buildings at closer ranges during the invasion of Iraq. That's another task that other weapons exist to accomplish. So, if we made those forces swap places they would both "get grenade launchers wrong" for awhile by trying to use them in the ways that they had trained to use them pre-war. Someone using GMGs against them in more optimal ways for the situation might seem "unbalanced" until they adapted those same tactics. It might be worthwhile to just give players the weapons as they are and let them figure out their utility in different situations rather than chasing the moving goalpost of "balance". Then again, that might be unwise because the factors that "balance" grenade launchers in real life are hard to represent in games. Weight and expense, for example. It's also too easy sling back and forth between long weapons in most games. Some games represent arming distance at least. That helps the issue.
One of the things I appreciate about _Ravenfield_ is that its "Thumper" grenade launcher allows you to actually adjust the sights. Given the size of most maps, that's enough to basically turn it into an artillery piece. (And the smoke rounds are great.) Unfortunately, if you want to get the most out of it, you need to sacrifice an equipment slot for a set of rangefinding binoculars to allow you to adjust your fire without wasting too much of your very limited ammo supply.
I still remember MW3(Not 23), using the launcher for the first time, and not only was it entirely useless, the grenade would veer wildly off target... and for some reason BO2 made them even worse...
Arma 2/3 are the only games I've ever played that were capable of animating the Ladder, much less getting it used correctly. But it's very satisfying to delete a pack of AI sitting behind otherwise impenetrable cover.
My favorite grenade launcher in gaming is probably the Nano GL from Red Faction 2. Primary fire exploded on contact, alt-fire was a time-delayed round that you could bounce around corners and such, and it came with a nice 6-round magazine and decent ammo pool. It is hands-down my favorite weapon in that game, and my friends always hated playing against me in multiplayer because I would usually run away with the match after getting my hands on it.
Because of their weight to power ratio, their rotational force and being mounted, mini guns stay on target pretty well. There's just too much other physics going on for recoil to factor in much
I think my favourite launcher experience is with the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. franchise. It gives you a quick solution for tougher mutants that you really don't want to get close to, and doubles as a lighter alternative to lugging around F1 grenades for clearing rooms (F1s are 0.63kg each, and M203s and VOG-25s are 0.08kg).
I'd be curious to see an episode about load and encumbrance: how games have evolved in regards to how many weapons you can carry and real issues with armed forces carrying heavier equipment than in the past.
My favorite grenade launcher in games is Caira's from Evolve. You could toggle between incendiary and healing grenades, and it had awesome sound design and animations. Caira was an awesome character and I loved playing her. She was my main hunter.
10:47 the only reason you can hear the bloop is because the grenade is launched by a .38 blank in its own segregated compartment in the base of the round. This is to create pressure high enough to launch the grenade, but not so high as to set off the grenade. A side effect of this is a reduction in the sound of the round being fired low enough that you can hear the pop of the air exiting the tube. Launchers that don't use this 2 stage pressure system don't "bloop" on firing.
My first experience with the grenade launcher was the underslung launcher on Marathon’s assault rifle. The strategy of stunlocking enemies with the rifle fire to hold them in place for a grenade was the standard strategy for more powerful aliens.
So bummed to hear L4D2 mentioned and no clip of the grenade launcher on The Parish. Hands down the most satisfying grenade launcher experience in gaming
The more recent call of duty MW2 had a under-barrel grenade launcher that shot drill charges, which stuck to walls and only exploded on the other side. This sold the explosive feeling too weak problem while also not making it overpowered, because if you were to shoot it at an individual they would get stuck with the drill charge or it would just go past them.
As an old codger, my first experience with a video game GL was the arcade game "Operation Wolf." I was hoping it would be shown in the video, but unfortunately not. It was probably the first FPS game to feature a GL.
So disappointed that the Quake series wasn't even mentioned. The grenade launcher in Quake and Quake 2 allowed for indirect fire against enemies, and the Ogres and Gunners lobbing grenades at you kept you on your toes and moving. Never forget the classics!
one of my favorite examples was Transformers Fall of Cybertron. it featured a weapon called the "Chaos Launcher" which had a grenade that could be detonated mid air causing it to split into multiple cluster bombs making for a beautiful spectacle of explosions and was actually more useful as an objective focused weapon that just farming easy kills, spreading so much damage over a wider area worked as a deterrent for enemy players.
honestly, probably making it a delayed explosion on like 2-3 second timer is best way to balance it. you wont die instantly unless youve put yourself in really bad situation and itll also feel satisfying to know your enemy has nowhere to run to escape.
One aspect I don't see in videogames is you can actually see a 40mm from a M203 spin in the air - it is slow enough that your eye can track it. We played with the 203 in the USMC in 1998.
Bullets moving at the speed of light-and often in straight lines-really grates on me as I get older. Sure, arcade-style shooters, sure, you do you, but if a game is trying to be realistic with how the guns are animated and how the reloading works and things, then please also treat bullets as real object too, with their own velocity and subject to wind and gravity.
After 100s of hrs in Squad as a Grenadier i can confirm "scalpel in the shape of an explosive sledgehammer" no doubt. Whenever i'm playing squad my M203 is love, and smoke is life.
Can you cover under-barrel weapons next? (Like the bayonet, Under barrel grenade launcher, under barrel shotgun/Masterkey, Under barrel taser, or even the under barrel flamethrower! (Like from Valkyria chronicles)) Also the Zip 22’s under barrel configuration XD
There is actually a company in real life that even now makes an under barrel chainsaw that you can put on your real life AR-15, inspired by the lancer from gears of war.
Also why would you use a zip22 as an under barrel attachment? That thing was such a POS and would jam all the time even if you weren't using Ruger BX25s, even if you're using the little 10 round Ruger 1022 magazines
"This is the final episode of the series" You being British and using British terms scared me for a second there. Lol. Until your next line, I thought this was the end of Loadout Genuine question. How do you guys differentiate between parts of a series, and the entire thing (season and series, respectively, here in North America)?
Would you be interested in making a loadout episode covering high capacity, and automatic style shotguns. Shotguns like the AR style Gen 12 from John Wick 4, the Atchisson AA-12 from Expendables, or the new high capacity auto feed Tavor TS12 from IWI. It’s interesting how shotguns will either have the least amount of rounds like a 2 shot sawed off, or in excess of 13 rounds like the Neostead 2000 double barrel pump action.
One of my favorite glitches I've ever seen is from Insurgency Sandstorm that let you gain as many 40mm rounds for your grenade launcher as your heart desired. Never had as much fun with the game than when that glitch was a thing! Barely had to fire my rifle as I always had 20 40mm's ready to go. Holding down objectives was a piece of cake lol.
Thank you Dave for this passionate defense of grenade launchers in games. Got a little scare at the end as I once again forgot Brits use 'series' like Americans use 'season' and briefly thought this was the last ever episode. XD
one of my favorite weapons in any game is for sure the grenade launcher in Far cry 4 its a sidearm meaning you can fire it while driving or my personal favorite flying the buzzer helicopter and shooting grenades against the enemies at an outpost below.
They mentioned RS2V but never elaborated in the game and the ability to AJUST the sights for different ranges. I'm also disappointed that they never mentioned the rifle grenades in RS2V which you can increase or decrease the range/velocity via a gas dial. These are huge details to gloss over.
I do find it interesting as to the iconic bloop sound. The M79 grenade launcher does indeed make this sound, but films like the classic Terminator 2 definitely scaled it up. In reality it's fairly subtle, but in the film its VERY pronounced. Don't get me wrong, its friggin cool as at gets! and I love the fact games have jumped on this and included it. In some cases emphasised it further. But lets not forget, these sounds you are hearing have been massively exaggerated.
Missed opportunity to mention Killing Floor 2 during the arming distance section - It's in the game and unarmed grenades and RPG7 rockets cause 300% damage on the two biggest enemies in the game with the chance to stun them
Halo Reach may have had the most satisfying and balanced grenade launcher across any of the multiplayer games I've played. It was strong on it's own, but the emp effect and the ability to delay it's fuse was lethal if you knew how to use it right
Helldivers 2 treats the grenade launcher pretty well. It's good for hordes, mediocre against armour but still better than your rifle, arming delay is a thing, the grenade actually bounces so you can shoot a nearby bug, have it bounce up and end up blowing up more enemies or yourself.
When I was in the military I could hit a target at 200m one handed by far the 40mm is one of the best rounds to put on target and the most fun I had on range next to the belt fed machine guns
The biggest issue I've seen with game balance is the intended range of engagements is too close. There you see even weapons like M14s and other larger caliber semi-automatics fire like they are blunderbusses. Cones of fire have unrealistic spreads. In fact cones of fire are almost universally misused. They were common in first generation shooters where they were meant to simulate recoil in earlier tech platforms. But for some reason when simulated recoil was added, they kept exaggerated cones of fire. Then when you add supportive weapons such as high rate of fire submachine guns, high capacity light machine guns, and aoe effects of grenades and grenade launchers, things start getting wonky. Then they have to balance around systems that are already out of wack and unintuitive. How many times have you played a modern shooter and seen shots that just don't go where you aim, even if you aim down sights, take your time and then take a shot, only to see it veer off by inches or even more? Then when you use supportive weapons which in real life are meant to be force multipliers they exist in an inaccurate or highly diminished state for 'balance'. Well you can't achieve a decent balance that is intuitive when the entire system's foundation isn't intuitive. Allow main service weapons such as rifles and carbines to have accuracy out to realistic ranges. Then you can allow support weapons to supplement. Using a 203 or 79 out to 300m against a single target in the open suddenly becomes inefficient when you can use a rifle round instead. But you cannot do that if the Cone of Fire means you're going to need to expend a magazine before you score a hit. But if cones of fire are not a problem, then the grenade launcher suddenly becomes more useful in situations where you cannot directly hit with rifles and carbines.
To all my fellas in Insurgency Sandstorm please for the love of good use the smoke rounds in the grenade launchers more, they are literally the only way to counter good Machine Gunner or Marksman players who know the maps.
I do like a bit of chaos now and then, but I also enjoy tactically deploying grenades in situations where I'm pinned down by a target I quite can't get a direct line of fire on but lobbing a grenade works. But I also do not really play PvP games either.
In games I see thin, weak doors that I could easily kick in, probably even punch through, but I need a key. Shooting hinges with a shotgun does nothing, and even rocket launcher won't make even a scratch on the door.
For the record I'd rather have reality than balance with grenades. I find it very disheartening when I use a grenade and it barely scratches a target. As I don't like getting gakked it's a double edged sword but fair's fair. Mr Ferguson makes a good point you can have a bad day if using grenades incorrectly. I don't know how many times I have blown myself up in games. It's always nice to see Jonathon Ferguson in one of these video! Besides realistic weapons that don't make Mr Ferguson wince I'd like to see destructible environment realism! Fire and explosions that do not damage the environment is just wrong!
In games most grenade launchers, rocket launchers and machine guns are nerfed. IRL the infantry squad is merely there to carry ammunition for the heavier weapons.
IMO part of the art of balancing is being lost. Grenades need to do less and less damage now days because many games give players gratuitous amounts, or even infinite, ammo. It smooths out gameplay a bit, but it also sacrifices other kinds of gameplay as well as strategy and tactics. The reason the demoman, soldier, and heavy from TF2 can have such deadly weapons is because they can run out of ammo. And not even that, but no class as enough ammo on their own for extended engagements. You need to go find ammo drops or be near a dispenser. That also allows the other team to displace enemy players: when a dispenser is destroyed that team loses a foothold. Contrast that with a game like overwatch, a team merely has to exist somewhere to have a foothold. Regenerating health is another mechanic I believe feels good but overall negatively affects game mechanics. Low health is another way an entrenched enemy can be displaced, but not when their health regenerates on its own
Surprised you didn't talk about the grenade launcher from titanfall 2 or halo reach. I feel like those are 2 of the best balanced for combat roles while feeling strong, realistic (for their setting) and requiring skill on the part of the player
Misclicks in Half Life 2 have caused me to associate the grenade launcher with a red screen and ringing ears.
It's the feature that is very useful but never used because ammo is so scarce. Though I have learned to use it more.
_Major fracture detected, automatic medical assistance engaged._
Playing Half Life 2 in VR currently. With the Valve knuckle controllers, A button is Drop the mag and B is launch the grenade. I have killed myself in many firefights, when under pressure and needing to reload and forgetting what does what.
In MMOD they are incredibly useful (pretty essential in some cases) but oh-so easy to waste.
@@AmyStrikesBack
Gordon: “fantastic”
The biggest problem games have with balancing military tech is that the tech is actively designed to be unbalanced and give the user an unfair advantage; being on the receiving end of those unfair advantages is counterintuitive to making a MP game fun, but allowing them makes the game a power fantasy for those good with them.
Thats exactly why certain weapon syatems are refered to as "force multiplyers"
That's the difference between casual games and simulation games. One tries to "balance" weapons the other DGAF
You'll find even in simulation games, UNLESS they're PvE (and often even then) weapons are often balanced to make the user experience more fun for both sides. @@TheLukio
@@AttiliusRex And every last one of them is complained about ad nauseum on forums for every military shooter that includes them; the average casual player just doesn't find playing against them to be fun, no matter what explanation the "military fanboys" (like myself) say to explain it or argue why it's working as intended.
@@TheLukio "Anything but realistic simulation is a casual game" is a weird take. There are some very intense, competitive games that are very much not simulation games.
This man is single-handedly keeping gamespot afloat. And also thank you dude for introducing new people to guns and bringing education in guns to an audience that may not have known these things.
Jonathan looked so pleased confirming that GLs do in fact 'bloop.'
Except S.T.A.L.K.E.R haha anyone seen the video of the Ukrainian soldier telling his mate " I'm telling you I can hit anything with the grenade launcher thanks to S.T.A.L.K.E.R, pick a target and I'll hit it" his mate doesnt believe him so he shoots the tree 200m away and bam he hits it and starts laughing, " I told you I could suka"...... one of the best videos.
I can't believe The second comment in my feed was about STALKER. I love it.
@@ThatBeTheQuestionwe can leave the zone, but the zone will never leave us
Don't grenade launchers always automatically compensate for bullet drop whenever you're aiming at something?
@@releasethekraken5039 bro there is no automatic compensation when using a real grenade laucher
@@xcoder5692 was talking about how they work in S.T.A.L.K.E.R specifically.
I love the Splinter Cell series use of the launcher. Sure you can launch grenade, but you could also launch a noise making camera that farts out sleeping gas. You can even retrieve the un-gassed ones to reuse them.
Shame stealth games don't have that game mechanic.
“Patterson, fire a warning shot.”
"Sir, this is an M32 Rotary Grenade Launcher."
"Ah potato potato, just fire it Patterson."
*Bloop*
It will always be the Pro Pipe in Halo :)
One of my favorite weapons in Reach, it was quite satisfying getting the timing of the remote detonation in flight correct.
That’s a great one. The first machine gun unlock in bf2042 has some great variants like armor piercing which is satisfying to use to make armor panic or take out robot dogs. Too bad they nerfed the ammo capacity and also the effectiveness of the under barrel shotgun master key.
Reach's grenade launcher also has 2 firing modes, making it even more of a skill weapon. Tapping the trigger makes it work more like a frag grenade, bouncing once before detonation. Or, you could hold the trigger to put it into EMP mode, allowing it to detonate when you release the trigger in exchange for a smaller blast radius.
I miss Reach's grenade launcher :(
Battlefield Bad Company 2 probably had the best use of rifle grenades as it was a good, simple and fun way to remove people who hid behind walls. One well aimed grenade and both the wall and the player behind it were gone =)
Another use for launchers is other types of grenades. e.g. smoke, bang, gas, etc.
@@brodriguez11000Just as practical, but not as fun =)
Born in '77 USA and in my childhood the words M-16 with M 203 grenade launcher were ingrained in my head as the pentultimate realworld weapon combo.
To watch it appear and evolve in games is dreams come true.
Same, The M203 has become strongly associated with the M16 and also M4 but has been put onto other weapons like the MP5
Penultimate, not pentultimate. Also, it means "next to last", not "super best".
@wbfaulk thanks. knowing is half the battle.
"Something newcomers to the game can use for a few easy kills"
*Shows the Loch-n-Load, one of the most skill-intensive weapons in TF2*
It's my favourite melee weapon.
Is it though? I'd argue that the increased projectile speed makes it much easier to hit targets than the stock grenade launcher.
You would think that, but it's actually a lot harder because it's not so much faster that it looks and acts different but it's fast enough that it messes with your muscle memory and you can't hit anything. Also you don't have any lifelines because if you miss the grenades just break and do nothing. Even if you hit something the blast radius is also tiny so you can't even really hit multiple targets effectively with it. Overall if you have any accuracy with stock or the Iron Bomber it's nearly impossible to use.
Sincerely - A demo main
Yah everything he mentioned about tf2 was a bit out of touch. Demo has always if not overpowered, a very strong class.
@@pizzaman11 Demo's only OP in the context of the stickybomb launcher - everything he said about the grenade launcher was fine
I'd love to see an episode covering the terms "sidearm", "pistol", and "handgun." What are the differences? Are they interchangeable? Do some countries or militaries have different definitions for them? And of course how do games portray them, and are they accurate?
FWIW: "Sidearm" means "weapon worn on the hip". "Handgun" means "one-handed gun". "Pistol" means "handgun where the chamber is part of the barrel".
Thanks Dave, Jonathan and team.
It was great to see clips from both Half Life and Far Cry 2.
In FC2 I love using the M79 as a defence against all those pesky patrol jeeps, just as shown in the clip. Then, towards the end of the game. the tables are turned and I can get a jeep with an automatic grenade launcher :)
One game that really used grenade launchers a ton was just cause 3, when half of the gameplay is just about blowing stuff up a grenade launcher is the best way to do it. Even with flashier weapons available I ended up using a grenade launcher a lot, because it was pretty reliable at starting the satisfying chain reactions of that game.
Loved playing pool with a grenade launcher. Taking out helicopters too.*
*This is important because when using a gun the helicopter will dodge. It will not when using a grenade launcher.
Rising Storm 2 did a very good job with the M79 imho. Since it's a team based game one squadmember is assigned to the weapon, with basically only a Colt1911 as secondary. It also allowed diffrent types of ammunition combinations.
best one ever Sovietwombles use of one in the RS2 Vietnam BS-ery video (part3). Aiming the launcher scienced out to perfection. Legendary.
I was always bothered by the grenade launcher in Half Life 1, the way it showed a round tumbling out of the tube was very impressive but also very wrong
Oh Dave I see you blurring the EFT version numbers to be able to get the launcher without the obnoxious grind, no worries I do it too 😂
😅😅😅
It makes sense that games would have a hard time balancing grenade launchers. It's like trying to balance mortars or vehicle mounted weapons. They're there to do a job small arms can't. It's also notable that militaries can get grenade launchers "wrong", too, in a sense. Ukraine and Russia currently use GMGs as substitute artillery--mortars--or something in between that defies classification. These GMGs come with sights for this purpose. Other militaries do not expect their GMGs to be used in this way. The US marines, instead, used theirs to pummel buildings at closer ranges during the invasion of Iraq. That's another task that other weapons exist to accomplish. So, if we made those forces swap places they would both "get grenade launchers wrong" for awhile by trying to use them in the ways that they had trained to use them pre-war. Someone using GMGs against them in more optimal ways for the situation might seem "unbalanced" until they adapted those same tactics.
It might be worthwhile to just give players the weapons as they are and let them figure out their utility in different situations rather than chasing the moving goalpost of "balance". Then again, that might be unwise because the factors that "balance" grenade launchers in real life are hard to represent in games. Weight and expense, for example. It's also too easy sling back and forth between long weapons in most games. Some games represent arming distance at least. That helps the issue.
One of the things I appreciate about _Ravenfield_ is that its "Thumper" grenade launcher allows you to actually adjust the sights. Given the size of most maps, that's enough to basically turn it into an artillery piece. (And the smoke rounds are great.) Unfortunately, if you want to get the most out of it, you need to sacrifice an equipment slot for a set of rangefinding binoculars to allow you to adjust your fire without wasting too much of your very limited ammo supply.
I'd prefer the use if the actual ladder sight if it meant the power of MW4 came back.
A weak launcher is an insult.
I still remember MW3(Not 23), using the launcher for the first time, and not only was it entirely useless, the grenade would veer wildly off target... and for some reason BO2 made them even worse...
Arma 2/3 are the only games I've ever played that were capable of animating the Ladder, much less getting it used correctly. But it's very satisfying to delete a pack of AI sitting behind otherwise impenetrable cover.
My favorite grenade launcher in gaming is probably the Nano GL from Red Faction 2. Primary fire exploded on contact, alt-fire was a time-delayed round that you could bounce around corners and such, and it came with a nice 6-round magazine and decent ammo pool. It is hands-down my favorite weapon in that game, and my friends always hated playing against me in multiplayer because I would usually run away with the match after getting my hands on it.
Can you do one on recoil? I imagine that if games can keep mini guns on target they may be getting recoil wrong in other situations.
Because of their weight to power ratio, their rotational force and being mounted, mini guns stay on target pretty well.
There's just too much other physics going on for recoil to factor in much
I was one of the few that mastered the M320 in BF4 with over 10k kills. It took me 3 years but I did it and now I have the tag for it.
Ian Mcollum has extensive videos on grenade launchers like the China Lake Grenade launcher, M203,etc.
M203 it's the greatest grenade launcher
His channel is called Forgotten Weapons for those who are interested.
I think my favourite launcher experience is with the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. franchise. It gives you a quick solution for tougher mutants that you really don't want to get close to, and doubles as a lighter alternative to lugging around F1 grenades for clearing rooms (F1s are 0.63kg each, and M203s and VOG-25s are 0.08kg).
Quakes grenade launcher sound is burned into my brain!
BLUM CLONGCLONGCLONGCLONGCLONG BRRKCHW
NGL this is the only content that gets me visiting Gamespot's channel these days, fantastic stuff.
Imagine infinite smoke grenades... Oh wait - Planetside has that. Underbarrel Smoke + Engineer Ammo pack = Infinite Smoke Grenades.
I'd be curious to see an episode about load and encumbrance: how games have evolved in regards to how many weapons you can carry and real issues with armed forces carrying heavier equipment than in the past.
The M1 Carbine also had the M8 launcher which was heavily used in the Pacific theatre on places like Iwo Jima and the Korean War
Still remember OFP 2001 having different M203 rounds like flares and smoke. blew my young mind
halo reach's falcon section in tip of the spear is goated
If you ever feel useless, just remember there's M79 grenade launcher in PUBG. It uses the sidearm slot and can only shoot smoke grenades.
Day 11 of asking jonathan Ferguson keeper of firearms and artillery at the royal armouries museum,to react to phantom forces guns
i agree
My favorite grenade launcher in games is Caira's from Evolve. You could toggle between incendiary and healing grenades, and it had awesome sound design and animations. Caira was an awesome character and I loved playing her. She was my main hunter.
During my time in the national guard we never used under barrel grenade launchers. We always used the 320 separate
I think Squad has one of the best depections of gernade launchers and their use due to the long ranges fights happen at.
10:47 the only reason you can hear the bloop is because the grenade is launched by a .38 blank in its own segregated compartment in the base of the round. This is to create pressure high enough to launch the grenade, but not so high as to set off the grenade.
A side effect of this is a reduction in the sound of the round being fired low enough that you can hear the pop of the air exiting the tube.
Launchers that don't use this 2 stage pressure system don't "bloop" on firing.
My first experience with the grenade launcher was the underslung launcher on Marathon’s assault rifle. The strategy of stunlocking enemies with the rifle fire to hold them in place for a grenade was the standard strategy for more powerful aliens.
Best use of grenade launchers was making holes in buildings in BFBC2
So bummed to hear L4D2 mentioned and no clip of the grenade launcher on The Parish. Hands down the most satisfying grenade launcher experience in gaming
BF2 lan parties were so insanely fun. Seriously the pinnacle of living.
I was so excited to see the China Lake grenade launcher appear in Black Ops, only to despise how nerfed it was, only being able to chamber 2 rounds.
The bane of my existence is FPS's!!! What???
The more recent call of duty MW2 had a under-barrel grenade launcher that shot drill charges, which stuck to walls and only exploded on the other side. This sold the explosive feeling too weak problem while also not making it overpowered, because if you were to shoot it at an individual they would get stuck with the drill charge or it would just go past them.
As an old codger, my first experience with a video game GL was the arcade game "Operation Wolf." I was hoping it would be shown in the video, but unfortunately not. It was probably the first FPS game to feature a GL.
I love these and now I have to wait. But look forward to the return! Excellent work indeed.
So disappointed that the Quake series wasn't even mentioned. The grenade launcher in Quake and Quake 2 allowed for indirect fire against enemies, and the Ogres and Gunners lobbing grenades at you kept you on your toes and moving. Never forget the classics!
one of my favorite examples was Transformers Fall of Cybertron. it featured a weapon called the "Chaos Launcher" which had a grenade that could be detonated mid air causing it to split into multiple cluster bombs making for a beautiful spectacle of explosions and was actually more useful as an objective focused weapon that just farming easy kills, spreading so much damage over a wider area worked as a deterrent for enemy players.
Painkiller had an equivalent: stakegun with a grenade secondary.
honestly, probably making it a delayed explosion on like 2-3 second timer is best way to balance it. you wont die instantly unless youve put yourself in really bad situation and itll also feel satisfying to know your enemy has nowhere to run to escape.
@8:44 I can feel the round arc in cod games easily but I have over 9k kills with the M87 in warzone alone. Love my bloop tube.
One aspect I don't see in videogames is you can actually see a 40mm from a M203 spin in the air - it is slow enough that your eye can track it. We played with the 203 in the USMC in 1998.
Bullets moving at the speed of light-and often in straight lines-really grates on me as I get older. Sure, arcade-style shooters, sure, you do you, but if a game is trying to be realistic with how the guns are animated and how the reloading works and things, then please also treat bullets as real object too, with their own velocity and subject to wind and gravity.
After 100s of hrs in Squad as a Grenadier i can confirm "scalpel in the shape of an explosive sledgehammer" no doubt. Whenever i'm playing squad my M203 is love, and smoke is life.
Can you cover under-barrel weapons next? (Like the bayonet, Under barrel grenade launcher, under barrel shotgun/Masterkey, Under barrel taser, or even the under barrel flamethrower! (Like from Valkyria chronicles))
Also the Zip 22’s under barrel configuration XD
There is actually a company in real life that even now makes an under barrel chainsaw that you can put on your real life AR-15, inspired by the lancer from gears of war.
Also why would you use a zip22 as an under barrel attachment? That thing was such a POS and would jam all the time even if you weren't using Ruger BX25s, even if you're using the little 10 round Ruger 1022 magazines
"This is the final episode of the series"
You being British and using British terms scared me for a second there. Lol. Until your next line, I thought this was the end of Loadout
Genuine question. How do you guys differentiate between parts of a series, and the entire thing (season and series, respectively, here in North America)?
seeing FC2 on the montage really brings back memories...
Getting a remake/new FC in the style of 2 would be cool
Would you be interested in making a loadout episode covering high capacity, and automatic style shotguns. Shotguns like the AR style Gen 12 from John Wick 4, the Atchisson AA-12 from Expendables, or the new high capacity auto feed Tavor TS12 from IWI. It’s interesting how shotguns will either have the least amount of rounds like a 2 shot sawed off, or in excess of 13 rounds like the Neostead 2000 double barrel pump action.
One of my favorite glitches I've ever seen is from Insurgency Sandstorm that let you gain as many 40mm rounds for your grenade launcher as your heart desired. Never had as much fun with the game than when that glitch was a thing! Barely had to fire my rifle as I always had 20 40mm's ready to go. Holding down objectives was a piece of cake lol.
Thank you Dave for this passionate defense of grenade launchers in games.
Got a little scare at the end as I once again forgot Brits use 'series' like Americans use 'season' and briefly thought this was the last ever episode. XD
one thing is that grenade launcher barrels wear out quickly, especially if shot in rapid succession
I weirdly think Driv3r had the most iconic M79
I love this series !
8:52 Hey Jon, thx for mentioning us as well... 8D
one of my favorite weapons in any game is for sure the grenade launcher in Far cry 4 its a sidearm meaning you can fire it while driving or my personal favorite flying the buzzer helicopter and shooting grenades against the enemies at an outpost below.
The grenade launcher in Helldivers 2 is one of the most satisfying weapons I've used in recent years.
Never really played The Finals, but can we please appreciate that game for perfecting The Bloop?
Whenever the M79 comes up i think of Syphon Filter.
Waiting for Jonathan Ferguson, Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armories Museum, to react to Helldivers 2's weapons
The finals does it the best. Theyre not oppressive and takes skill but it’s very satisfying.
Quality foresighting at 9:20. As Jonathan mentioned the use of sights, , decided i had to mention Rising Storm 2. But, you guys beat me to it.
They mentioned RS2V but never elaborated in the game and the ability to AJUST the sights for different ranges. I'm also disappointed that they never mentioned the rifle grenades in RS2V which you can increase or decrease the range/velocity via a gas dial. These are huge details to gloss over.
I own a 12" M203 40MM. I have the pistol mount for it. I bought a single point sling as it only offers one shot before reloading.
I do find it interesting as to the iconic bloop sound. The M79 grenade launcher does indeed make this sound, but films like the classic Terminator 2 definitely scaled it up. In reality it's fairly subtle, but in the film its VERY pronounced. Don't get me wrong, its friggin cool as at gets! and I love the fact games have jumped on this and included it. In some cases emphasised it further. But lets not forget, these sounds you are hearing have been massively exaggerated.
Missed opportunity to mention Killing Floor 2 during the arming distance section - It's in the game and unarmed grenades and RPG7 rockets cause 300% damage on the two biggest enemies in the game with the chance to stun them
Talking about under-barrel grenade launchers and you didn't show the "say hello to my little friend" clip from Scarface...impressive
The M4 and the M16 are also popular platforms for the underbarrel grenade launcher
My weapon of choice in Half-Life Deathmatch (yes, I'm that old...)
Still hoping for a G36 episode! =D
It could even touch on the XM8 situation, since it was supposed to be a successor to the G36.
man I remember we'd call the bazooka in one of the earliest Call of Duty multiplayer games
Halo Reach may have had the most satisfying and balanced grenade launcher across any of the multiplayer games I've played. It was strong on it's own, but the emp effect and the ability to delay it's fuse was lethal if you knew how to use it right
Helldivers 2 treats the grenade launcher pretty well. It's good for hordes, mediocre against armour but still better than your rifle, arming delay is a thing, the grenade actually bounces so you can shoot a nearby bug, have it bounce up and end up blowing up more enemies or yourself.
Would've liked to see the deep rock galactic grenade launcher and it's unique overclocks
When I was in the military I could hit a target at 200m one handed by far the 40mm is one of the best rounds to put on target and the most fun I had on range next to the belt fed machine guns
The biggest issue I've seen with game balance is the intended range of engagements is too close. There you see even weapons like M14s and other larger caliber semi-automatics fire like they are blunderbusses. Cones of fire have unrealistic spreads. In fact cones of fire are almost universally misused. They were common in first generation shooters where they were meant to simulate recoil in earlier tech platforms. But for some reason when simulated recoil was added, they kept exaggerated cones of fire.
Then when you add supportive weapons such as high rate of fire submachine guns, high capacity light machine guns, and aoe effects of grenades and grenade launchers, things start getting wonky. Then they have to balance around systems that are already out of wack and unintuitive.
How many times have you played a modern shooter and seen shots that just don't go where you aim, even if you aim down sights, take your time and then take a shot, only to see it veer off by inches or even more?
Then when you use supportive weapons which in real life are meant to be force multipliers they exist in an inaccurate or highly diminished state for 'balance'. Well you can't achieve a decent balance that is intuitive when the entire system's foundation isn't intuitive.
Allow main service weapons such as rifles and carbines to have accuracy out to realistic ranges. Then you can allow support weapons to supplement. Using a 203 or 79 out to 300m against a single target in the open suddenly becomes inefficient when you can use a rifle round instead. But you cannot do that if the Cone of Fire means you're going to need to expend a magazine before you score a hit. But if cones of fire are not a problem, then the grenade launcher suddenly becomes more useful in situations where you cannot directly hit with rifles and carbines.
To all my fellas in Insurgency Sandstorm please for the love of good use the smoke rounds in the grenade launchers more, they are literally the only way to counter good Machine Gunner or Marksman players who know the maps.
"You may hit your targets, but I *HIT* my targets." - Englishman with a piece of paper and a pack of rifle grenades.
I do like a bit of chaos now and then, but I also enjoy tactically deploying grenades in situations where I'm pinned down by a target I quite can't get a direct line of fire on but lobbing a grenade works. But I also do not really play PvP games either.
In games I see thin, weak doors that I could easily kick in, probably even punch through, but I need a key. Shooting hinges with a shotgun does nothing, and even rocket launcher won't make even a scratch on the door.
For the record I'd rather have reality than balance with grenades. I find it very disheartening when I use a grenade and it barely scratches a target. As I don't like getting gakked it's a double edged sword but fair's fair. Mr Ferguson makes a good point you can have a bad day if using grenades incorrectly. I don't know how many times I have blown myself up in games. It's always nice to see Jonathon Ferguson in one of these video!
Besides realistic weapons that don't make Mr Ferguson wince I'd like to see destructible environment realism! Fire and explosions that do not damage the environment is just wrong!
Star Wars Republic Commando has a great take on a grenade launcher. Simply unclip the rifle variant and clip in the launcher
We need some more clips from Squad
In games most grenade launchers, rocket launchers and machine guns are nerfed. IRL the infantry squad is merely there to carry ammunition for the heavier weapons.
I think rocket launchers, also have a hard time being balanced.
I wish the Steyr AUG would be next to be featured in Loadout.
It’s so weird seeing Brit’s informing people about guns😂
IMO part of the art of balancing is being lost. Grenades need to do less and less damage now days because many games give players gratuitous amounts, or even infinite, ammo. It smooths out gameplay a bit, but it also sacrifices other kinds of gameplay as well as strategy and tactics. The reason the demoman, soldier, and heavy from TF2 can have such deadly weapons is because they can run out of ammo. And not even that, but no class as enough ammo on their own for extended engagements. You need to go find ammo drops or be near a dispenser. That also allows the other team to displace enemy players: when a dispenser is destroyed that team loses a foothold. Contrast that with a game like overwatch, a team merely has to exist somewhere to have a foothold.
Regenerating health is another mechanic I believe feels good but overall negatively affects game mechanics. Low health is another way an entrenched enemy can be displaced, but not when their health regenerates on its own
The under barreled G36k is the only reason i wasnt kicked in every match of Insurgency Sandstorm
Surprised you didn't talk about the grenade launcher from titanfall 2 or halo reach. I feel like those are 2 of the best balanced for combat roles while feeling strong, realistic (for their setting) and requiring skill on the part of the player
No mention of the GOAT grenade launchers from Resident Evil?
15:06 has a clip of resident evil and a grenade launcher