For those wondering, this really is an eight part series - each video being between 12-14 minutes long. It was a lot more work than my normal load. So, superThanks from those who can afford it will be greatly appreciated. I will release two parts each week this month. If you want to see them all now, you can become a patron at Patreon (see the link in the description). All eight parts are there, uncensored, and without ads. If you watch nothing else in this series, keep an eye out for Parts IV and VIII. Hitchens' contribution to those episodes is something you won't want to miss. Especially part VIII! Special thanks to all the patrons who continue to make these videos possible - and who make it possible for me to keep these videos free here on TH-cam. I am continually overwhelmed by their generosity! Enjoy!
Her talking about why she chose Christianity reminds me of Aron Ra's common response when asked about why atheists convert, (paraphrased) "Their reasons are always somehow worse than the ones who have always believed."
She's not just gaslighting us, most of all she's gaslighting herself. Spiritually bankrupt is an interesting term for a therapist to use, at least an honest one. The issues she's dealing with will still be there, she'll just have an imaginary friend to talk to about them. I had a friend like that when I was 6 years old.
8:54 "A therapist said I was maybe spiritually bankrupt" What kind of therapist says such a thing? Highly unprofessional. Therapy should focus on supporting the client without judgment, helping them explore their feelings, thoughts, and experiences in a safe and respectful environment. Statements like this could be seen as overly personal, dismissive, or even shaming, which goes against the principles of therapeutic practice.
There are an incredible number of bad therapists out there. I've seen a whole clinic full of self indulged people talk about nothing but themselves for an hour and then apply all their problems onto me, and at the time I was just a child refusing to go to school. Drugs, alcohol, abuse, trauma, you name a problem and they had it... Except none of them could grasp that I wasn't them. Finding some that are insanely religious honestly sounds very likely in America.
I am so grateful for Freedom from Religion's Secular Therapy Project. When I was living in southern Georgia, I used it to find a counselor who would not push any religion on me. (Since one of the main issues in my marriage was our difference of religious views, that was incredibly important!)
@@thenerktwins I hope you're right; this isn’t only story about therapist saying really stupid things. In some places therapists don’t need to know psychology, just go to course which is likely from religious group like some church 😰
"I choose to believe Jesus came back from the dead." I choose to believe I'm a billionaire but anytime I go near the Ferrari showroom, they call the cops.
Religion has a history of preying on those in despair and feeling hopeless. And American mental health care doesn't help. A therapist diagnosed her as spiritually broken and still has a license. That's all you need to know.
@@lisaboban Eh, even Christian therapists should know to keep their mouths shut about religion. I've never heard of a therapist saying, "You want to unborn yourself? Instead of teaching you healthy coping skills, just get yourself some religion!"
@@suicune2001 depends. In some places therapist doesn’t have to know about psychology, all that is needed for license is course which may be done by religious organization 😰 But yeah, that really bad...
A therapist telling a patient that they are spiritually bankrupt is definitely crossing lines in terms of ethics and morality. But if this was a Christian therapist, who know what their morality was telling them
I am cynical when I hear well-known people converting to Christianity. Having come out of evangelicalism, I am very aware of the industry of Christian publishing, music, radio, TV, movies, personal appearances, etc. There's a lot of money to be made.
Having drunk enough alcohol to 'sterilize a hospital,' while expecting a positive result, she apparently has a fundamental misunderstanding of the effects that depressants have on one's body.
Speaking engagements for an ex-Muslim/ex-atheist would come pouring in, offering a premium cash flow. Is no one looking at the financial aspect of this sudden change of heart?
Yeah. That's been the suggestion since the, as Brian would say, CONversion. I am torn between hoping it ISN'T because it's sad to see a very intelligent woman in this state. And hoping that it IS, because she's then not a woman in this state.
@@guyjperson The Christian community does have very deep coffers, and the intense love-bombing could be attractive to someone that is mentally and emotionally struggling. Doors that had been closed would suddenly be open and welcoming. Cults have long practiced targeting those that are going through mental/emotional anguish and taking full advantage of them. The therapist(s) that accused her of being "emotionally bankrupt" knew damn well what they were doing.
@@guyjperson it seems to be kind of a thing these days for celebrity to age out of the young progressive edgy days, into the old fat, lazy and (intellectually) stupid days. A version of a mid-life crisis.
I love that her basis for conversion is "I was in a place of darkness and lacked hope, so I opened myself to religion and guess what? It worked!" Never is the story of conversion, "I tested my falsifiable theories with experiment after experiment and could find no falsifying evidence. Here is my proof." As if being in an emotional state somehow makes you more rational, not less.
if there is not hope, the best selling religi0n can give you a lot of it. You just have to sell it well. F.e. be a well know atheist and find the best selling g0d. Acidentally. Of course.
The most bizarre conversion story I ever heard was from a guy who started off with: "I love science....I really love science" ! He then went on to tell me he used to think religion was "A load of rubbish " until one day he got talking a vicar at the local church. The vicar said to him that despite his disbelief, Jesus wanted to know HIM !! He claimed that these words had a profound emotional effect on him and it was the catalyst for his conversion. Oddly, he seemed quite offended when I told him that what he had described was rather like saying : "I never believed in Bigfoot" until someone told me that Bigfoot desperately wanted to know me !!
By her account, and her demeanour, Ayaan is still struggling psychologically. She still hasn't produced any evidence or even logical argument that would justify any belief in the supernatural, let alone in any particular god. When the religious put her forward as a reason to believe in their god it displays their desperation, their grasping at straws.
One thing we know about human memory is that the more she repeats these stories, the more she will come to believe them. IF IF IF she is not telling the full truth about her conversion now, she will believe her story fully and firmly in a few years.
She's gaslighting herself, actually. And how can existential dread be an experience unfamiliar to any atheist? It's like the first 15 minutes of atheism.
@Unhacker maybe one who's in the middle of converting from a religion. I never gad religion foisted upon me so im pretty sanguine about my place in the world. I have to bet there are plenty of others in the same dinghy.
It is really, really hard to tell where her lies begin and end. It's sad if she really was about to end her own life ... ... but her therapists have done her wrong by calling her, or anyone else wanting to end their own life, "spiritually bankrupt". That part of the story might be true, or it might not. But one thing is for sure, if it's true, her therapists were very bad therapists.
“The religious foundations of Western society”-agree, Mr. D, pretty much like the history of any theocracy. What about secular values? Those are what helped us women even have a platform, right to vote, right to own property etc., not to mention minorities, LBGQT+ people, etc.
I've seen this before: A person leaves religion, only to become 'spiritual' - whatever that means. A person leaves one religion, only to fall for the con of another. A person loses belief in god, only to start believing in mysticism and the supernatural.
People are free to believe any nonsense that gives them comfort and peace of mind. I only insist on three things, keep it out of the public schools, keep it out of the government and keep it out of my house.
I don't really know about her story. I assume she got in that state because of extreme abuse that was likely fueled by religion. (or at least excused by it) I understand why an abused person would want to cling to an idea of someone loving them unconditionally but what I don't understand is people going to the Abrahamic religions for that. That's not how Yahweh is. Her original assessment of him being cruel, etc. was on the mark the first time.
Ayaan is a bit of a hero for me. Reading her books helped me better understand how refugees think and why some of their actions seem contrary to our western common sense. Because I work with, housing for the disadvantaged in Norway, this new insight made communication and connecting with those I work with easier. I also respect all the work she has done helping people get out of the Islam religion - especially women and girls. As an atheist, I feel that we have lost one our best. But I don’t judge Ayaan. Considering the hand she was dealt at birth, she has come much longer than most. It will be interesting to follow her in her journey. I wish her all the best 💚
If you have a therapist who says things like "You're spiritually bankrupt", it's time to get a new therapist. Did this therapist tell other patients things such as "You're outta meth. You need to get some"? It's the scene from the Simpsons where Dr Nick Riviera sees Barney passed out in the gutter and says, "You look terrible"! Throws some bills at him and then says, "You need booze"! 🙄 🤦 😂😂😂😂
The psychotherapist who told Ayaan that she is spiritually bankrupt should lose his license. Anyone can do the work of a preacher, it is very easy when vulnerable people look for you. It is a wholly different thing to be a psychotherapist.
So her essay said it was because of cultural/political reasons, now she's saying it's because a personal mental crisis. (And of course Jesus/Christian theology are nowhere to be found). I guess when you decide to run the circle of people she does, where lying is a lifestyle, keeping your story straight is of no concern.
When was Christianity put down? As Candida Moss argues in her book, "The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom" she credibly lays out the argument that early Christians invented most of their persecution myths. As you point out, Ali's powder puff version of Christianity is not Biblically accurate, and ignores or she does not know of Christianity's layer upon layer of violence, murder of indigenous peoples, the burning of enlightened people such as Bruno, and of course, Torquemada's Inquisition, the apotheosis of human torture in the name of god..
She may say that she was suicidal and depressed. Still, her conversion letter was focused on the main political propaganda about christianity=wester values and that we need christianity to win the culture war. So even if what she says about her depression is true, I inclined more that she convert to Christianity because her husband is a right-wing christinian nationalist.
Ayaan talks about seeing therapists for her severe depression. But she never mentions other interventions, which have shown to be effective when talk therapy fails. I’m talking about ketamine, TMS, or ECT. These increase the plasticity of the brain. She should have tried those instead of turning to lame religion. You’re right, Brian. She’s changing her story. Not cool
It's been done twice to me. A Lutheran psychologist and a Catholic psychiatrist (I was in therapy with both at different times ) invited me to try their religion. I said no. Neither ever brought it up to me again.
If I remember correctly, Alex O'Connor has stated that he was going to be adopting a more mellow, more kid's gloves, less push-backy style going forward. This was evident in an interview he did recently with actor and religious spokesman/author Rainn Wilson, where he let Wilson kind of get away with rhetorical murder, mostly unchallenged. A strategy for Alex to broaden his appeal and increase his ratings, I guess.
People are waking up to just how much Alex O'Connor plays both sides against each other, as his chosen business model. I first noticed that behavior when I realized that's what Bart Ehrman does; at times. He sells culturally weaponized soundbites to both sides of our culture war, when he says things (as a bible scholar) like "The Jesus read about in the bible definitely existed". But later he'd come back around to our side, to sell us equally powerful statements (again, as a bible scholar) we can use to directly refute that. I'm seeing TYT's Ana Kasparian laying a foundation for monkey-branching over to that same business model. Any of us who watched her discussion with Jillian Michaels was properly shocked at how she leaned into being a soft-serve apologist for MAGA and Trump himself. It is, unfortunately, the most lucrative space within the "secular" marketplace of ideas. It's very much the sort of thing Fall Out Boy sang about. ""I am an arms dealer fitting you with Weapons in the form of words And don't really care which side wins As long as the room keeps singing That's just the business I'm in"
I never felt she really belonged in the atheist movement. She lived in my country for a long time and was on many tv shows. She was always more about anti-Islam rhetoric than truly understanding what atheism was. Her political, and unconvincing move to christian superstition and fantasy did not surprise me in the least. Just listen to her talking about that, and you immediately realize how intellectually limited, or even bankrupt she is in that respect. It is one fallacy after another. She is very superficial.
Alcohol? Alcohol? For me is music, and books, and playing chess with friends, and gardening, and shooting at the archery range, and walking my dog, and hiking or kayaking or snowshoeing. Never alcohol.
Ayaan reminds me of this tweet I saw that says, "Ever notice that most people do not "find god" when they are happy? It's because the psychological tactics of religion work best on an emotional and vulnerable mind. When people are at their lowest, they seek something to fill the void. Religion is the best predator."
The one thing I don't hear from Ayaan is that she is convinced the truth claims made in the bible are objectively true. Her "conversion" is purely pragmatic.
Brian, maybe an aspect of this is how, once religion of any kind sinks its teeth into someone, the person will always feel like they need some kind of religion, even if the original one was really awful to them -- the belief that one must have a belief is the true hobgoblin of religion. I'm glad this will be an approximately 8-part series where you can explore all of the quite excellent replies and insights you got inmthe comments here today. :-}
I had a similar thought. That a person reared in a religious system, even an abusive one, since early childhood might still yearn for the pseudo-succor of that community. If Ayaan were still living in an Islamic culture she easily might have reconverted into that faith, but now being surrounded by Christians she embraces her new community of right-leaning believers. Any port in a storm, I suppose.
All eight parts are already finished and up on Patreon. But the comments here are great. They are my favorite part of making these videos - my hand to Hitch!!! ❤
Seems he/she was right, and nothing changed. She is now a spiritual bankrupt Christian of sorts. A cultural Christian, a Pascal gambler. I am happy for her that she gave up the alcohol.
Soooo, she trusts the choices the woman she was when she was extremely depressed and suicidal. No, honey. You can't trust a troubled person to make your life decisions for you.
I always suspect that these people have a desperate need for attention, probably rooted in childhood experiences. Which is why they keep moving from one crowd to the next, always looking for acceptance. Back in the Netherlands, she first moved from the socialist left to the nationalist right, and now in the USA to christian conservatism.
Maybe she made it up, or she spoke to a pastor and called THEM her therapist? Who knows. But it IS a fact that she enjoys the attention her CONversion gets her.
wait WHAT?? her _THERAPIST_ suggested she was spiritually bankrupt? that's not s real therapist. that's the sort of "therapist" that is unfortunately common in america, who feels entitled to insert their religion into therapy i'm going to suggest ayaan has surrounded herself with the sort of christians who pretend to have sooo much empathy for distressed people, but the social support they desperately need is dangled as the absolutely conditional love they only offer to friends who commit to their religion. iow they heavily contribute to the distress they offer to help
When I first left home, I got into therapy because I knew how much my father had messed me up. At the time, I was still Mormon. And Mormons only went to Mormon Therapists. Indeed, it was free. That therapist was far more Mormon than he was a therapist. When it came to my wife, he missed a major mental illness, instead telling her that her problem came from not fulfilling. God‘s plan for her to have children. Telling a mentally ill person to have kids is as bad as malpractice gets. D’oh!!!
She thought atheism would help her fight Islam. It did not do so in the way she desired, so now she made the literal deal with the devil, going straight to the Western versions of islamic oppresiveness to get her cultural Crusade. How long until this turns into another "i voted for the leopards eating my face party and the leopards ate MY face" lesson? By the sounds of it she has zero beliefs most of the radical antiislamic parts of christianity would deem essential... she won't like how they treat heretics any more than her past treatment by muslims.
You can clearly see the difference between before and after he became a "professional" content creator. He has an algorithm to please and a deadline to meet. He obviously knows his stuff, but he needs the content. I personally no longer automatically watch. I think he is stretching himself thin.
As long as it keeps her "trending" I suppose . . . I do not even understand what "spiritually bankrupt" means? Just a couple of words placed next to each other that leads some to nod their heads. As a sentiment, it is . . . . bankrupt!
@@j8000 Yes. Too many "therapists" push their religion onto their patients... Then there are more overtly religious ones, since many church leaders also fancy themselves as "therapists" and can legally call themselves "therapists".
So if you have despair or depression, you should suddenly deny the reality of physics? The reality of chemistry? The insertion of a belief in leprechauns or dog psychics? There’s no excuse for stupid under any circumstance.
I find it very difficult to believe that someone that has been all their life in a religion that is clear that this Jesus is not a god, to suddenly accept that this guy is a god. Before the eyes of a Muslim, she first rejected their god and now she has replaced their god with a guy. But not any guy, the guy that she knew was not god. So how did she reached the conclusion that this guy is a god? I don’t think that this is a question that she will ever answer.
Agreed. Im confident that if/when the question comes up, her depression brought on by her abuse by islamists and "cured" by christianity will jump out in front.
What she claims relieved her depression is not Christianity. It is her own adjustment to a mental crisis by redefining the Abrahamic god from a monster to a loving parent and surrendering herself to it. She has been under a death sentence from Islam and a target for Christian extremists for decades and now she has help from an invisible friend which she created in her own mind to fill the dark void. I wish her well and I am glad she found a way to recover from her depression.
I don't think she was ever really targeted by Christian extremists. She trashes Islam and agrees with pretty much anyone who does. Christians love having her around even before the conversion.
What kind of therapists are telling thwir patients that they are spiritually bankrupt? Those people need to find a new job or she misunderstood what they were saying by a mile.
I'm sorry to break it to you, Mr. Misterdeity, but when Ayyan said she converted to Christianity because it saved her from depression, she was also lying. She already said even earlier than that she decided to convert to Christianity for political reasons.
Yes. I remember her original article when she announced her "conversion" - everything she mentioned was political and nothing to do with actually believing a god exists. Her more recent discussion with Richard Dawkins, she said she "chose to believe", which is not something you can do.
To be maximally generous (ahem), one might hypothesise that her "therapist" was some kind of Jungian. Her words echo the man's own so closely - " Whenever...in an emotionally excessive situation, I come up against a paradoxical fact or happening, I am in the last resort encountering an aspect of God, which I cannot judge logically and cannot conquer because it is stronger than me...I can only open myself to it, let myself be overpowered by it, trusting in its meaning. …” I can't bring myself to criticise her for trying anything when suicidally depressed, but hawking herself about to "testify" suggests she is far from healed
I sympathize. I dwell in the pit of nihilism and i dream every day of ending my weird persistence on this planet, and sometimes i wonder if supernatural belief might find me the comfort that i don't have the guts to achieve on a permanent basis. But i can't make myself believe in things that aren't true. Ayaan has the "benefit" of having been prepared by a whole life of belief, so she has a way of falling into it. Which of us is better off?
No, it won’t. Religions like christianity are based on shame and self-hate, thinking that you don’t deserve anything but god's love will safe you - see similarities with abusive relationship?
I'm glad she seems to be feeling better after converting, but the fact that she seems completely unable to espouse any actual Christian positions... I have doubts.
I know that g0d books sell well. I also know that many Homo Sapiens can even CRY at a director's command. That's a way more difficult task than just to show an emotion, and still they can do it. I somehow cannot give her the benefit of the doubt and would bet a dinner (not a car) that she is grifting.
'Spiritual' is just a term that people like to throw around, because it means whatever the user wants it to mean. I don't use the word 'spiritual', because it is clearly meaningless. The best that a religion has to offer is a placebo effect, wherein the believer just feels better. I can't live by religious rules, because I live in the real world.
The "choice" of which religion anyone finds themself subscribing to is very typically undergone at a time when one's reasoning should not be trusted and on the environment in which one happens to find themself in at that time. How many people do we know of who - absent childhood indoctrination or during emotional upheaval - investigate many popular world religions, interview the "experts" in each and review each of their testing methods used on all their evidence for verifying each of their claims (or if untested, rigorously test those claims oneself without bias), then select none, one, or more religions based only on the degree of verifiable accuracy of the set of claims that the religion or religions claims to be 'the truth'?
I had a therapist who similarly attempted to push their Christian bullshit on me. That should automatically cause one to lose their license to practice.
If anything the pharmaceutical company will tear at that therapist for giving religion as a cure instead of medication which they've been taught to give ppl.
@@aj7515 Well this was a therapist, not a psychiatrist so they had nothing to do with prescribing medication. They were just an openly bigoted person telling me that any gay friends I had were a bad influence and that the only forgiveness was their god's forgiveness and no secular solution existed.
@@JaniceinOR I didn't, this was right when I got out of the foster care system and was really messed up in the head. It was someone who was volunteering to do this for free for a group of us with mental health issues and I didn't think to do that, I just stopped seeing them.
My journey began before The 4 Horsemen ... Errrr, 4 Horseman and 1 Horsewoman. Granted, it completed after others heard of them, but I had not. I was busy doing other things. But I didn't hear of Ayaan until 2024. I'll stick with the journey beginning with Sagan in the early to mid 80s, thanks.
It is sad, since she knows vey little about Christianity but uses the label. I agree that Alex went soft on her but should have questioned her socratically , Maybe Buddhism and Confucianism would have helper her greatly.
I’ve never understood why she was so revered/respected/whatever. It wasn’t a small feat for her to escape Islam and the situation she was in, but what did she do that was interesting or contributed to the secular movement beyond that? No disrespect intended, but I’ve never understood why she was rubbing elbows with the “4 Horsemen” since she didn’t have that same level of insight, consciousness or verbal eloquence that they did/do.
She wrote the script for Theo van Gogh's movie "Submission". When he got murdered by a Muslim for making that movie and Ayaan had to seek protection after receiving death threats as well, that got her broad - and deserved - attention. So her name got dropped often along those of other apostates who had to fear for their lives like Salman Rushdie or Taslima Nasrin.
Personally I found my cure by drinking twice as much alcohol as she did. I thank my former hometown of Isla Vista, California for teaching me hiw to drink such a sufficiently adequate quantity of ethanol.
Gaslighting isn't just when someone lies, & while I'm not saying there isn't more involved, it seems like Ayaan has a habit of jumping from one extreme to the next. I wasn't aware she was pro-Muslim Brotherhood, but after that she apparently became conservative, & now she's coincidentally adding "Christian" onto that.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; whether or not Ayaan's conversion is genuine or not I won´t speak on, but it *is* obvious and dubvious how she is letting it perfectly track her up every ladder she can reach.
Is Alex going full Paul McCartney with his mustache? It just highlights his eternal youthful look. I hope he doesn’t start doing the philosophical version of Wonderful Christmas Time.
For those wondering, this really is an eight part series - each video being between 12-14 minutes long. It was a lot more work than my normal load. So, superThanks from those who can afford it will be greatly appreciated.
I will release two parts each week this month. If you want to see them all now, you can become a patron at Patreon (see the link in the description). All eight parts are there, uncensored, and without ads.
If you watch nothing else in this series, keep an eye out for Parts IV and VIII. Hitchens' contribution to those episodes is something you won't want to miss. Especially part VIII!
Special thanks to all the patrons who continue to make these videos possible - and who make it possible for me to keep these videos free here on TH-cam. I am continually overwhelmed by their generosity! Enjoy!
No amount of despair can make the Bible true.
But, a small amount of Bible can make true despair.
she confirms that religion prays on the "weak" and confirms that educated people are well-equipped to rationalize their bad decisions and beliefs.
Her talking about why she chose Christianity reminds me of Aron Ra's common response when asked about why atheists convert, (paraphrased) "Their reasons are always somehow worse than the ones who have always believed."
She's not just gaslighting us, most of all she's gaslighting herself. Spiritually bankrupt is an interesting term for a therapist to use, at least an honest one. The issues she's dealing with will still be there, she'll just have an imaginary friend to talk to about them. I had a friend like that when I was 6 years old.
8:54 "A therapist said I was maybe spiritually bankrupt" What kind of therapist says such a thing? Highly unprofessional. Therapy should focus on supporting the client without judgment, helping them explore their feelings, thoughts, and experiences in a safe and respectful environment. Statements like this could be seen as overly personal, dismissive, or even shaming, which goes against the principles of therapeutic practice.
A theistic one.
There are an incredible number of bad therapists out there. I've seen a whole clinic full of self indulged people talk about nothing but themselves for an hour and then apply all their problems onto me, and at the time I was just a child refusing to go to school. Drugs, alcohol, abuse, trauma, you name a problem and they had it... Except none of them could grasp that I wasn't them.
Finding some that are insanely religious honestly sounds very likely in America.
I am so grateful for Freedom from Religion's Secular Therapy Project. When I was living in southern Georgia, I used it to find a counselor who would not push any religion on me. (Since one of the main issues in my marriage was our difference of religious views, that was incredibly important!)
Any psychotherapist who tells a patient that they're "spiritually bankrupt" should habe their license revoked.
If it makes you feel any better, it never happened 😆
@@thenerktwins I hope you're right; this isn’t only story about therapist saying really stupid things. In some places therapists don’t need to know psychology, just go to course which is likely from religious group like some church 😰
"I choose to believe Jesus came back from the dead."
I choose to believe I'm a billionaire but anytime I go near the Ferrari showroom, they call the cops.
Religion has a history of preying on those in despair and feeling hopeless. And American mental health care doesn't help. A therapist diagnosed her as spiritually broken and still has a license. That's all you need to know.
What kind of therapist calls their client, “spiritually bankrupt” and tells them to do something about it?
A Christian therapist. Or one that doesn't exist except as a prop in this story.
@@lisaboban Eh, even Christian therapists should know to keep their mouths shut about religion. I've never heard of a therapist saying, "You want to unborn yourself? Instead of teaching you healthy coping skills, just get yourself some religion!"
@@suicune2001 depends. In some places therapist doesn’t have to know about psychology, all that is needed for license is course which may be done by religious organization 😰 But yeah, that really bad...
@@akshelby33 obviously she didn't choose the right one from better help™️.
A therapist telling a patient that they are spiritually bankrupt is definitely crossing lines in terms of ethics and morality. But if this was a Christian therapist, who know what their morality was telling them
"I Went Insane And Found Jesus" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
I am cynical when I hear well-known people converting to Christianity. Having come out of evangelicalism, I am very aware of the industry of Christian publishing, music, radio, TV, movies, personal appearances, etc. There's a lot of money to be made.
Wow, if part 8 is this good, I can wait for part 1 of this 1 part series. Fabulous work!
LOL! 😂❤
Part eight is the cherry on top. I found a clip of Christopher Hitchens speaking to her from the grave. Or is it urn?
Having drunk enough alcohol to 'sterilize a hospital,' while expecting a positive result, she apparently has a fundamental misunderstanding of the effects that depressants have on one's body.
Speaking engagements for an ex-Muslim/ex-atheist would come pouring in, offering a premium cash flow. Is no one looking at the financial aspect of this sudden change of heart?
Yes.. that's why Brian called it her CON-version.
It's VERY lucrative.
🤢
Yeah. That's been the suggestion since the, as Brian would say, CONversion. I am torn between hoping it ISN'T because it's sad to see a very intelligent woman in this state. And hoping that it IS, because she's then not a woman in this state.
@@guyjperson The Christian community does have very deep coffers, and the intense love-bombing could be attractive to someone that is mentally and emotionally struggling. Doors that had been closed would suddenly be open and welcoming. Cults have long practiced targeting those that are going through mental/emotional anguish and taking full advantage of them. The therapist(s) that accused her of being "emotionally bankrupt" knew damn well what they were doing.
When she said "spiritually bankrupt", she meant "financially bankrupt". Could be a new grift instead of a new faith.
@@guyjperson it seems to be kind of a thing these days for celebrity to age out of the young progressive edgy days, into the old fat, lazy and (intellectually) stupid days.
A version of a mid-life crisis.
I love that her basis for conversion is "I was in a place of darkness and lacked hope, so I opened myself to religion and guess what? It worked!" Never is the story of conversion, "I tested my falsifiable theories with experiment after experiment and could find no falsifying evidence. Here is my proof." As if being in an emotional state somehow makes you more rational, not less.
if there is not hope, the best selling religi0n can give you a lot of it. You just have to sell it well. F.e. be a well know atheist and find the best selling g0d. Acidentally. Of course.
Funny, when I am in a dark place I seek solutions, not delusions.
The most bizarre conversion story I ever heard was from a guy who started off with: "I love science....I really love science" !
He then went on to tell me he used to think religion was "A load of rubbish " until one day he got talking a vicar at the local church. The vicar said to him that despite his disbelief, Jesus wanted to know HIM !!
He claimed that these words had a profound emotional effect on him and it was the catalyst for his conversion.
Oddly, he seemed quite offended when I told him that what he had described was rather like saying :
"I never believed in Bigfoot" until someone told me that Bigfoot desperately wanted to know me !!
spiritually bankrupt ? ..so your imaginary bank account is overdrawn. This should mean less than nothing to an honest person.
By her account, and her demeanour, Ayaan is still struggling psychologically. She still hasn't produced any evidence or even logical argument that would justify any belief in the supernatural, let alone in any particular god.
When the religious put her forward as a reason to believe in their god it displays their desperation, their grasping at straws.
I made a video about that very thing. See: Christians are getting desperate.
Once again... shes pretty terrible at getting her point across and being genuine.
One thing we know about human memory is that the more she repeats these stories, the more she will come to believe them. IF IF IF she is not telling the full truth about her conversion now, she will believe her story fully and firmly in a few years.
She's gaslighting herself, actually. And how can existential dread be an experience unfamiliar to any atheist? It's like the first 15 minutes of atheism.
@Unhacker maybe one who's in the middle of converting from a religion. I never gad religion foisted upon me so im pretty sanguine about my place in the world. I have to bet there are plenty of others in the same dinghy.
It is really, really hard to tell where her lies begin and end.
It's sad if she really was about to end her own life ...
... but her therapists have done her wrong by calling her, or anyone else wanting to end their own life, "spiritually bankrupt".
That part of the story might be true, or it might not.
But one thing is for sure, if it's true, her therapists were very bad therapists.
“The religious foundations of Western society”-agree, Mr. D, pretty much like the history of any theocracy. What about secular values? Those are what helped us women even have a platform, right to vote, right to own property etc., not to mention minorities, LBGQT+ people, etc.
I've seen this before:
A person leaves religion, only to become 'spiritual' - whatever that means.
A person leaves one religion, only to fall for the con of another.
A person loses belief in god, only to start believing in mysticism and the supernatural.
she is nothing but politics
And Fear.
People are free to believe any nonsense that gives them comfort and peace of mind. I only insist on three things, keep it out of the public schools, keep it out of the government and keep it out of my house.
That’s where I’m at
I don't really know about her story. I assume she got in that state because of extreme abuse that was likely fueled by religion. (or at least excused by it) I understand why an abused person would want to cling to an idea of someone loving them unconditionally but what I don't understand is people going to the Abrahamic religions for that. That's not how Yahweh is. Her original assessment of him being cruel, etc. was on the mark the first time.
Ayaan is a bit of a hero for me. Reading her books helped me better understand how refugees think and why some of their actions seem contrary to our western common sense. Because I work with, housing for the disadvantaged in Norway, this new insight made communication and connecting with those I work with easier. I also respect all the work she has done helping people get out of the Islam religion - especially women and girls.
As an atheist, I feel that we have lost one our best. But I don’t judge Ayaan. Considering the hand she was dealt at birth, she has come much longer than most. It will be interesting to follow her in her journey. I wish her all the best 💚
Me too! ❤
She is a right wing reactionary.
If you have a therapist who says things like "You're spiritually bankrupt", it's time to get a new therapist.
Did this therapist tell other patients things such as "You're outta meth. You need to get some"?
It's the scene from the Simpsons where Dr Nick Riviera sees Barney passed out in the gutter and says, "You look terrible"! Throws some bills at him and then says, "You need booze"!
🙄
🤦
😂😂😂😂
The psychotherapist who told Ayaan that she is spiritually bankrupt should lose his license. Anyone can do the work of a preacher, it is very easy when vulnerable people look for you. It is a wholly different thing to be a psychotherapist.
this is so common in USA that it's impossible to do anything about it. you'd probably lose your licence in other countries
My impression is that the story she tells is tailored to the audience she is speaking to.
My impression is that the story she tells is tailored to the audience that pays her
"Spiritually bankrupt"
Definition: Drinking so much spirit you don't have enough money to buy more, or anything else.
Any therapist that suggests turning to spiritualism should lose their license (assuming she talked to actual licensed therapists
I noticed that "good friends and a strong support group" weren't on her list of things she tried.
So her essay said it was because of cultural/political reasons, now she's saying it's because a personal mental crisis. (And of course Jesus/Christian theology are nowhere to be found). I guess when you decide to run the circle of people she does, where lying is a lifestyle, keeping your story straight is of no concern.
When was Christianity put down? As Candida Moss argues in her book, "The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom" she credibly lays out the argument that early Christians invented most of their persecution myths. As you point out, Ali's powder puff version of Christianity is not Biblically accurate, and ignores or she does not know of Christianity's layer upon layer of violence, murder of indigenous peoples, the burning of enlightened people such as Bruno, and of course, Torquemada's Inquisition, the apotheosis of human torture in the name of god..
I feel much freer and happier with no religion. Ayaan is on her own journey, and I hope she finds the peace she seeks.
She may say that she was suicidal and depressed. Still, her conversion letter was focused on the main political propaganda about christianity=wester values and that we need christianity to win the culture war.
So even if what she says about her depression is true, I inclined more that she convert to Christianity because her husband is a right-wing christinian nationalist.
Ayaan talks about seeing therapists for her severe depression. But she never mentions other interventions, which have shown to be effective when talk therapy fails. I’m talking about ketamine, TMS, or ECT. These increase the plasticity of the brain. She should have tried those instead of turning to lame religion. You’re right, Brian. She’s changing her story. Not cool
I call bullshit on Ayaan. No therapist with any integrity would tell a patient that they are spiritually bankrupt.
It sounds as though she found herself a Christian 'therapist.'
1. I think she lives in America. 2 . For those therapists with cognitive dissonance, religion allows them to ignore their professional ethics.
In all fairness, I have known a number of therapists who lack integrity. It might not be as rare as you imagine.
Or if there was such a therapist they would have pointed Ayaan in the direction of Hinduism or Buddhism to cure her spiritually bankrupt self.
It's been done twice to me. A Lutheran psychologist and a Catholic psychiatrist (I was in therapy with both at different times ) invited me to try their religion. I said no. Neither ever brought it up to me again.
If I remember correctly, Alex O'Connor has stated that he was going to be adopting a more mellow, more kid's gloves, less push-backy style going forward. This was evident in an interview he did recently with actor and religious spokesman/author Rainn Wilson, where he let Wilson kind of get away with rhetorical murder, mostly unchallenged. A strategy for Alex to broaden his appeal and increase his ratings, I guess.
I’m saddened to read this.
People are waking up to just how much Alex O'Connor plays both sides against each other, as his chosen business model.
I first noticed that behavior when I realized that's what Bart Ehrman does; at times.
He sells culturally weaponized soundbites to both sides of our culture war, when he says things (as a bible scholar) like "The Jesus read about in the bible definitely existed".
But later he'd come back around to our side, to sell us equally powerful statements (again, as a bible scholar) we can use to directly refute that.
I'm seeing TYT's Ana Kasparian laying a foundation for monkey-branching over to that same business model.
Any of us who watched her discussion with Jillian Michaels was properly shocked at how she leaned into being a soft-serve apologist for MAGA and Trump himself.
It is, unfortunately, the most lucrative space within the "secular" marketplace of ideas.
It's very much the sort of thing Fall Out Boy sang about.
""I am an arms dealer fitting you with
Weapons in the form of words
And don't really care which side wins
As long as the room keeps singing
That's just the business I'm in"
I felt betrayed and persecuted by my GMC Yukon, so I sought solace in a Chevy Tahoe.
I am afraid of Alsatians, so I bought a German Shepherd instead.
Don't you know the only truth is to be found in Dodge Ram?
I never felt she really belonged in the atheist movement.
She lived in my country for a long time and was on many tv shows. She was always more about anti-Islam rhetoric than truly understanding what atheism was.
Her political, and unconvincing move to christian superstition and fantasy did not surprise me in the least.
Just listen to her talking about that, and you immediately realize how intellectually limited, or even bankrupt she is in that respect. It is one fallacy after another. She is very superficial.
She’ll do anything to stay in the spotlight.
Part 8 of a 1 part series? It's a miracle!
Some day there will be an unpronounceable, unspellable holiday to celebrate it
Alcohol? Alcohol? For me is music, and books, and playing chess with friends, and gardening, and shooting at the archery range, and walking my dog, and hiking or kayaking or snowshoeing. Never alcohol.
Ayaan reminds me of this tweet I saw that says, "Ever notice that most people do not "find god" when they are happy? It's because the psychological tactics of religion work best on an emotional and vulnerable mind. When people are at their lowest, they seek something to fill the void. Religion is the best predator."
The one thing I don't hear from Ayaan is that she is convinced the truth claims made in the bible are objectively true. Her "conversion" is purely pragmatic.
Stay tubed!
Brian, maybe an aspect of this is how, once religion of any kind sinks its teeth into someone, the person will always feel like they need some kind of religion, even if the original one was really awful to them -- the belief that one must have a belief is the true hobgoblin of religion. I'm glad this will be an approximately 8-part series where you can explore all of the quite excellent replies and insights you got inmthe comments here today. :-}
I had a similar thought. That a person reared in a religious system, even an abusive one, since early childhood might still yearn for the pseudo-succor of that community. If Ayaan were still living in an Islamic culture she easily might have reconverted into that faith, but now being surrounded by Christians she embraces her new community of right-leaning believers. Any port in a storm, I suppose.
All eight parts are already finished and up on Patreon. But the comments here are great. They are my favorite part of making these videos - my hand to Hitch!!! ❤
She had a therapist tell her she might be spiritually bankrupt?!?!?
Seems he/she was right, and nothing changed.
She is now a spiritual bankrupt Christian of sorts.
A cultural Christian, a Pascal gambler.
I am happy for her that she gave up the alcohol.
Soooo, she trusts the choices the woman she was when she was extremely depressed and suicidal. No, honey. You can't trust a troubled person to make your life decisions for you.
I always suspect that these people have a desperate need for attention, probably rooted in childhood experiences. Which is why they keep moving from one crowd to the next, always looking for acceptance. Back in the Netherlands, she first moved from the socialist left to the nationalist right, and now in the USA to christian conservatism.
What therapist calls a client 'spiritually bankrupt'?!?
a religi0us one.
None. She's lying and people who don't know therapy will believe her.
Maybe she made it up, or she spoke to a pastor and called THEM her therapist? Who knows.
But it IS a fact that she enjoys the attention her CONversion gets her.
@@kellydalstok8900 Indeed. I've long thought she'd do just about anything to stay in the spotlight.
wait WHAT?? her _THERAPIST_ suggested she was spiritually bankrupt? that's not s real therapist. that's the sort of "therapist" that is unfortunately common in america, who feels entitled to insert their religion into therapy
i'm going to suggest ayaan has surrounded herself with the sort of christians who pretend to have sooo much empathy for distressed people, but the social support they desperately need is dangled as the absolutely conditional love they only offer to friends who commit to their religion. iow they heavily contribute to the distress they offer to help
Maybe it was recommended by her husband
She is neither honest nor intelligent; she does whatever she thinks is 'fashionable' 😎
Another person find Jesus at the bottom of a bottle, how novel.
What kind of "doctor" would diagnose someone as "spiritually bankrupt?"
@@roog49 One who has religion tied in with their practice?
None.
When I first left home, I got into therapy because I knew how much my father had messed me up. At the time, I was still Mormon. And Mormons only went to Mormon Therapists. Indeed, it was free. That therapist was far more Mormon than he was a therapist. When it came to my wife, he missed a major mental illness, instead telling her that her problem came from not fulfilling. God‘s plan for her to have children. Telling a mentally ill person to have kids is as bad as malpractice gets. D’oh!!!
Thanks!
Thank YOU! Blessings are headed your way. ❤
Always said if matt dilahunty or paulogia find god again overnight they would become fabulously wealthy
What about me?!!! 😊
@@misterdeitywait, are you saying you don't believe in yourself?
@paulrichards6894 would becoming fabulously wealthy invalidate their claim?
@@peacemakernana Nope.
She total lost the plot.
She thought atheism would help her fight Islam. It did not do so in the way she desired, so now she made the literal deal with the devil, going straight to the Western versions of islamic oppresiveness to get her cultural Crusade.
How long until this turns into another "i voted for the leopards eating my face party and the leopards ate MY face" lesson? By the sounds of it she has zero beliefs most of the radical antiislamic parts of christianity would deem essential... she won't like how they treat heretics any more than her past treatment by muslims.
I'm gonna hold you to that promise of an 8 part series on this interview.
@@lisaboban It’s already up on Patreon. You could watch all eight parts right now - uncensored!!! And without ads! 😉
@@misterdeity I support you on Patreon but honestly I hate the player there. I watch on TH-cam Premium, so there are no ads.
I've given up on Alex. He does little more than give guests a pulpit to preach with little or no pushback.
Yep. I feel like he was more honest before but I think he got tired of his sub ceiling.
Same
You can clearly see the difference between before and after he became a "professional" content creator.
He has an algorithm to please and a deadline to meet.
He obviously knows his stuff, but he needs the content. I personally no longer automatically watch. I think he is stretching himself thin.
@@suicune2001Think so too.
As long as it keeps her "trending" I suppose . . .
I do not even understand what "spiritually bankrupt" means? Just a couple of words placed next to each other that leads some to nod their heads.
As a sentiment, it is . . . . bankrupt!
It sounds entirely implausible that a licensed therapist suggested this. Perhaps a white lie for christ?
@@j8000 Yes. Too many "therapists" push their religion onto their patients...
Then there are more overtly religious ones, since many church leaders also fancy themselves as "therapists" and can legally call themselves "therapists".
So if you have despair or depression, you should suddenly deny the reality of physics? The reality of chemistry? The insertion of a belief in leprechauns or dog psychics? There’s no excuse for stupid under any circumstance.
Totally agree. She is intellectually bankrupt.
she needs no excuse. She needs to sell her books about her "journey"
I find it very difficult to believe that someone that has been all their life in a religion that is clear that this Jesus is not a god, to suddenly accept that this guy is a god.
Before the eyes of a Muslim, she first rejected their god and now she has replaced their god with a guy. But not any guy, the guy that she knew was not god.
So how did she reached the conclusion that this guy is a god?
I don’t think that this is a question that she will ever answer.
Agreed. Im confident that if/when the question comes up, her depression brought on by her abuse by islamists and "cured" by christianity will jump out in front.
Ahh yes.... Ayan Now-I'm-a-Christian-please-buy-my-book Hirsi
She doesn't seem to take into account that magic is not real and bullshit is not something to believe in.
"Christianity: it takes less courage than ending things permanently" isn't the tagline Ayaan seems to think it is.
There are better ways to escape alcoholism than religion
Thankyou Bri, you walked a precarious path with both Ayaan and Alex, and pulled it off with aplomb. Well done!
Well, let’s not jump to any conclusions. There are seven more episodes in this series.
What she claims relieved her depression is not Christianity. It is her own adjustment to a mental crisis by redefining the Abrahamic god from a monster to a loving parent and surrendering herself to it. She has been under a death sentence from Islam and a target for Christian extremists for decades and now she has help from an invisible friend which she created in her own mind to fill the dark void.
I wish her well and I am glad she found a way to recover from her depression.
I don't think she was ever really targeted by Christian extremists. She trashes Islam and agrees with pretty much anyone who does. Christians love having her around even before the conversion.
If only she had found candy crush.
What kind of therapists are telling thwir patients that they are spiritually bankrupt? Those people need to find a new job or she misunderstood what they were saying by a mile.
Seriously
I'm sorry to break it to you, Mr. Misterdeity, but when Ayyan said she converted to Christianity because it saved her from depression, she was also lying. She already said even earlier than that she decided to convert to Christianity for political reasons.
Yes. I remember her original article when she announced her "conversion" - everything she mentioned was political and nothing to do with actually believing a god exists.
Her more recent discussion with Richard Dawkins, she said she "chose to believe", which is not something you can do.
@@G5rry But you CAN choose to pretend.
So she took up a new religion to comfort herself.
To be maximally generous (ahem), one might hypothesise that her "therapist" was some kind of Jungian. Her words echo the man's own so closely - " Whenever...in an emotionally excessive situation, I come up against a paradoxical fact or happening, I am in the last resort encountering an aspect of God, which I cannot judge logically and cannot conquer because it is stronger than me...I can only open myself to it, let myself be overpowered by it, trusting in its meaning. …” I can't bring myself to criticise her for trying anything when suicidally depressed, but hawking herself about to "testify" suggests she is far from healed
Great video, Brian. I look forward to the remaining 69 episodes of this 3 1/3 long series!
I sympathize.
I dwell in the pit of nihilism and i dream every day of ending my weird persistence on this planet, and sometimes i wonder if supernatural belief might find me the comfort that i don't have the guts to achieve on a permanent basis.
But i can't make myself believe in things that aren't true.
Ayaan has the "benefit" of having been prepared by a whole life of belief, so she has a way of falling into it.
Which of us is better off?
No, it won’t. Religions like christianity are based on shame and self-hate, thinking that you don’t deserve anything but god's love will safe you - see similarities with abusive relationship?
@itsROMPERS...
I can relate. You have my empathy. May we each find relief in some way.
no matter how well mannered and put together these people seem, all they do is lie for jesus.
I'm glad she seems to be feeling better after converting, but the fact that she seems completely unable to espouse any actual Christian positions... I have doubts.
I think it was Rationality Rules who called this phenomenon "Faithless Faith"
I know that g0d books sell well. I also know that many Homo Sapiens can even CRY at a director's command. That's a way more difficult task than just to show an emotion, and still they can do it. I somehow cannot give her the benefit of the doubt and would bet a dinner (not a car) that she is grifting.
This CONversion is jarring- even more so than Alex’s mustache.
'Spiritual' is just a term that people like to throw around, because it means whatever the user wants it to mean. I don't use the word 'spiritual', because it is clearly meaningless. The best that a religion has to offer is a placebo effect, wherein the believer just feels better. I can't live by religious rules, because I live in the real world.
Thank you for your work.
Thanks for watching!
The "choice" of which religion anyone finds themself subscribing to is very typically undergone at a time when one's reasoning should not be trusted and on the environment in which one happens to find themself in at that time.
How many people do we know of who - absent childhood indoctrination or during emotional upheaval - investigate many popular world religions, interview the "experts" in each and review each of their testing methods used on all their evidence for verifying each of their claims (or if untested, rigorously test those claims oneself without bias), then select none, one, or more religions based only on the degree of verifiable accuracy of the set of claims that the religion or religions claims to be 'the truth'?
@@Specialeffecks Such a great comment!!!
I had a therapist who similarly attempted to push their Christian bullshit on me. That should automatically cause one to lose their license to practice.
If anything the pharmaceutical company will tear at that therapist for giving religion as a cure instead of medication which they've been taught to give ppl.
@@aj7515 Well this was a therapist, not a psychiatrist so they had nothing to do with prescribing medication. They were just an openly bigoted person telling me that any gay friends I had were a bad influence and that the only forgiveness was their god's forgiveness and no secular solution existed.
@@AlexS-pv4rn I do not know if you did, but if you decided to report them, what was the result?
@@JaniceinOR I didn't, this was right when I got out of the foster care system and was really messed up in the head. It was someone who was volunteering to do this for free for a group of us with mental health issues and I didn't think to do that, I just stopped seeing them.
@AlexS-pv4rn
That makes sense. I probably would have done the same.
I hope you have been able to find healing.
Equating suicide with being courageous isn't a good idea.
You’re right. But it was a bit tongue in cheek.
My journey began before The 4 Horsemen ... Errrr, 4 Horseman and 1 Horsewoman. Granted, it completed after others heard of them, but I had not. I was busy doing other things. But I didn't hear of Ayaan until 2024. I'll stick with the journey beginning with Sagan in the early to mid 80s, thanks.
Grifters all have the same story . I’m not buying it .
It is sad, since she knows vey little about Christianity but uses the label. I agree that Alex went soft on her but should have questioned her socratically , Maybe Buddhism and Confucianism would have helper her greatly.
I’ve never understood why she was so revered/respected/whatever. It wasn’t a small feat for her to escape Islam and the situation she was in, but what did she do that was interesting or contributed to the secular movement beyond that?
No disrespect intended, but I’ve never understood why she was rubbing elbows with the “4 Horsemen” since she didn’t have that same level of insight, consciousness or verbal eloquence that they did/do.
Yeah I've been wondering the same exact thing. I don't understand why she's even relevant.
She wrote the script for Theo van Gogh's movie "Submission". When he got murdered by a Muslim for making that movie and Ayaan had to seek protection after receiving death threats as well, that got her broad - and deserved - attention. So her name got dropped often along those of other apostates who had to fear for their lives like Salman Rushdie or Taslima Nasrin.
I went through a time of terror, darkness and confusion. Then I got divorced. Fixed everything.
Likewise! ❤
I've never seen an adult convert to Christianity who didn't do so as the result of being in some sort of emotional crisis.
Personally I found my cure by drinking twice as much alcohol as she did. I thank my former hometown of Isla Vista, California for teaching me hiw to drink such a sufficiently adequate quantity of ethanol.
Hitch love you! Literally.
I tried gaslighting once; I burnt off my butt hair.
LOL! 😂
Gaslighting isn't just when someone lies, & while I'm not saying there isn't more involved, it seems like Ayaan has a habit of jumping from one extreme to the next. I wasn't aware she was pro-Muslim Brotherhood, but after that she apparently became conservative, & now she's coincidentally adding "Christian" onto that.
@@TheLithp the Muslim brotherhood is right wing reactionary, so it’s not that much of a leap.
@@princegobi5992 Leaping to different flavors of right wing reactionary, perhaps.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; whether or not Ayaan's conversion is genuine or not I won´t speak on, but it *is* obvious and dubvious how she is letting it perfectly track her up every ladder she can reach.
Is Alex going full Paul McCartney with his mustache? It just highlights his eternal youthful look. I hope he doesn’t start doing the philosophical version of Wonderful Christmas Time.
Or the Frog Chorus...shudder.