If you collected pre-CGC you'd realize it's always been a grift. We graded our books ourselves then some arbitrary company comes in and says, we're professional graders. Hello?
Watching this video, I am actually now less confident in CGC doing grading between 9.8, 9.9, and 10 books. This is actually quite a damming video about how Cavalier they are in handing out these grades.
70 9.9’s from this batch is absolutely bonkers. Like they are just literally SAYING with this video “9.9 is the new 9.8, we messed up before in the last 2+ decades of grading, and this is the new normal.”
I agree it is bonkers, but because the paper is a lot better than before the corners now stay a lot sharper when the comic is folded.... It's as if new books made with modern papers need a new scale if they are to be fair
They appear to have skipped the part where some hipster in the receiving department drops your bundle and says... "oopsie", then passes it off to the grader who can officially reject it all. But, it's never their fault because if your books were damaged, it must have been the post office.
Insane . Didn't open not one book. So we are just grading front and back covers now? How and why are ppl giving so much legitimacy to this type of thing ? How much kool-aid we drinking here. He's clearly prepping the collectors for more 9.9s and 10s . What grading scale were they using prior to this . Ugh, such a racket . .
@@shawnmichaud4484 But when they grade a comic isn't the whole comic graded? I get "covers are the king" but I always thought it was the whole comic if we are talking about the 9.8 range.
The whole reason condition is important to collectibles is because they’ve been through circulation and withstood the test of time. So the ones that survived the best should obviously be worth more. But if a huge stack of books go straight from the press to the slab, what’s the significance? You’d actually have to go out of your way to find a damaged copy. It’s completely antithetical to what collecting is all about.
I never thought about it that way, but you’re right. A really high-grade copy of any popular comic from the ‘30s through the early ‘60s is sorta like a 12-point buck that managed to survive in the woods all those years.
Yeah, and that plays out over time. You can see that old books in good condition are worth significantly more than new books in great condition that have flooded the market.
@@revoltpuppy This is why I stopped buying new books to collect. I just buy what I like to read. For collecting I just buy Bronze age 9.0 books or better, Amazing Spider-Man/Uncanny X-Men because that's what I collected as a kid in the 70's. I have Every Amazing Spider-Man from #50-441 in 9.0 or better.
Once again, CGC is going to piss on our heads and tell us it's raining. Based upon his video, the selection of what went in the 9.8. 9.9, and 10.0 pile (especially the cutoff from 9.8-9.9 and the cutoff from 9.9-10.0) was almost arbitrary. As of last month, there wasn't a virgin's chance in Alabama of almost 20% of a 400 book submission straight off the press getting 9.9s. Buy the book, not the grade. The difference between a 9.6 and a 10.0 is largely how much of a hurry the barely-above-minimum-wage worker with a couple of weeks of training was in to go to the bathroom and not wash their hands before grading more books.
I think the MOST overlooked thing here is that these were all cardstock heavier paper books. Brand new card stock stuff can get 9.9s but standard comics almost neverrrrrrr can get above 9.8. I've submitted 7,000 books (or more honestly) and I've only ever gotten 6 9.9s. All of which were brand new card stock/lenticular/or metal moderns.
@MintHunterComics Any time a comic is being handled by a middleman, like being put on a shelf at a store, the chance of getting that gem mint condition is out of reach.
I'm all for slabbing..... but I really find it amusing the amount obsession over 9.8, 9.9, 10 differences - all differences minute enough that they escape any normal viewing of the book and appreciation of what is just a gorgeous, beautiful copy, regardless.
"This is the 10.0 relative to THIS RUN of books" 💯 exactly!! They cannot distinguish a 9.9 or 10.0 by itself, just relative to hundreds of others. So unless you're sending >100 of the exact same book straight from the printer, you WON'T get a 10.0. I guess it's a way for CGC to "thank" the dealers who send hundreds per week. Nothing says 'independent' and 'trust' like good ol' nepotism 😅
So a manufacturing error on corner where there is a little fuzz on 99.99 percent of all the same issue never get a 9.9 and possibly a 9.8. This grading process is ridicolous
Why are CGC receiving from the printers? Why do I feel I trust this company less every time they speak? Why do I perceive the Earth washing away beneath me when I see all the old CGC slabs in my collection? If 9.9's replace 9.8s Im done with the hobby and Ill burn them all on the ebay pyre. Does this not mean that CGC are saying they graded everything wrong previously? If they are saying that grades are different for the same things that have existed since comic books were born, does this mean they are rewriting history and the grading rules? The biggest take away for me is the factor that human error seems to play in the whole business. The formula has to include at least 15% margin of error, which seems wild, as well as a gut feeling for how I got to 15%. It's is prob more like 30%....
Flabbergasted CGC posted this video. It shows how subjective and asinine this 9.8 to 10.0 grading scheme is. And how many of those 9.9s and 10s retain that grade when they go through the encapsulation process? How do you slip the book into the inner mylar well and heat seal it without some minute damage to a corner or edge? What a joke this hobby has become.
I have a 10x magnifier and even the sharpest corner to the naked eye will look like a ragged monster and with more white evident under 10x magnification. Sharpness should be a naked eye determination imo.
Your headline tells the whole story about spec ...it just solidifies how useless it really is to get something graded " 9.8's Are Going To Zero!" So, now are you gonna start saying 9.9 are the only worth while book? I find it hilarious that one Microscopic nick on a book makes it hundreds if not thousands less than the other. You guys do realize you killed the market thinking that way. Now your all holding 9/8's and gonna start crying foul? NAH bro. Come back another day.
Seeing this video of how they determine this devalues 9.9s and 10.0s to me. I habe 9.8s that look as good as they say 10.0s and 9.9s are supposed to be.
These guys just can’t get out of their own way. Based of this video I can do whatever to the interior. Annnnd I thought there were multiple individuals looking at the books. I also love his handling of the books. Yeah they’ve done nothing for me except that I now know the census for MMPR the return is crazy high at 9.8 😂🤣
The other question to ask is that who would submit an entire box of brand new books to be graded by CGC? Probably a big dealer? And big dealers would get all the breaks so I can see these books getting 9.9 and 10 all day long because they’re submitted by a big dealer, the people that own CGC really.
This opens the door to a whole new income stream for CGC. Now everyone is going to second-guess the books that they already have graded and consider cracking them out to have them regrade it for the higher grade
I would say that a large portion of CGC's business over the past five years or so has come from people resubmitting already slabbed books after performing CPR on them in the hopes of a grade bump. That's what made their big crackdown on labeling books that had been cleaned as Restored so odd. Why would they risk killing that revenue stream they have by penalizing people for cleaning books?
wait not even latex gloves or blacklight like on CSI??? Are we sure he checked the interiors? Maybe we've been too naive and trusting... okay at least we know what we're buying now....
Only CGC could set out to make a video explaining something as simple as publishing defects and instead make a documentary on why they shouldn't be taken seriously as a grading company. Bravo, CGC! Bravo!
A10.0 should literally be perfect. Not the best from the copies inspected "hot off the press," but literally perfect. That's the definition of "mint condition." That book was not a 10. CGC is changing THEIR standards. The comic community, as a whole, should not lower theirs, though really, we already have. CGC should not be THE authority on comic grading.
Overstreet Grading existed LONG before CGC, so CGC really ISN'T the authority on comic grading. They've just convinced the comic collecting public that they are the best graders.
I find it a bit sketchy that the publishers are sending these in to be graded. So are they intentionally holding back on sending quality books to the stores? I dunno just seems weird to me somehow
The only thing different between now and then is that some people are getting smart to it while others have made peace with the fact that they're being lied to because it's the lie they want to hear. For CGC's part, it looks like they care less about trying to preserve the lie and are maybe three or four steps away from turning into the AT&T ad in the movie Crazy People. "“You may think our service stinks…but don’t mess with us because we’re all you’ve got! Without us, you’ll have no damn phones!” CGC - We’re Tired of Taking Your Crap.
Great video. This video enforces what I had believed the differences between the ultra high grades. Loved your commentary. Given that these modern are being shipped directly to CGC, there is no question that we will be seeing more and more 10.0s. That 10 in question looks like a light glare to me. Keep it up.
Yup, between the nice padded shipping straight from the printers and (in this case) heavier cardstock covers, it's not a huge surprise these graded better than the average submission.
Honestly I'm a rookie as far as collecting comics, i have a few.... but after watching this and seeing everyone reactions.... you guys are crazy hahaha.... now it's going to far...
What this video says to me is, "we took a massive hit because of slab-gate so now we're going to lower our grading standards to suck in some customers".
Great video and analysis Mickey! I’m not a huge fan of slabbing, but I do purchase slabbed books off of eBay when it comes to golden/silver age books just to make sure I’m not getting a resto or missing any coupons etc. can’t wait for Sanity issues 2 &3! Cheers!
If only each book had a internal serial number. We could then ask this guy to pre-screen them again. He would almost certainly pick different 10 and 9.9 each time. All this video prove is how inconsistent they have become .
This CGC video appears to be more propaganda than informative content, and at worst, it's simply a load of nonsense. It primarily underscores the shortcomings in their grading system, particularly for items rated 9.9 and 10. It's worth noting that the individual presenting was once their senior grader, adding an interesting perspective to their critique. However, the more CGC attempts to enhance their reputation, the more apparent the flaws become.
The more preserved comic books there are, the less valuable they will be. Part of what makes an CGC 9.8 special is because there aren't supposed to be that many of them out there, let alone a 9.9 or 10.0. Collect what your like, but don't buy into the hype for a perfect new comic book as some kind of investment.
I have 20 or so books I've wanted graded for a while. Cool video with info, I have books still in factory seal but now I feel I'll be lucky to see 9.8s
At least it’s some kind of clue on wtf is going on over at CGC. CBCS should be cashing in on this, but I sent my submission in late November for grading and it’s freaking the middle of March. To be fair I had some sig. verifications so that could be why. Thanks for the video Swaggi H.
Worth emphasizing his mention of the "heavy cardstock cover" which could make a huge difference (depending on actual paper weight), especially combined with the books never having to make a journey through an FLCS. For comparison (did some digging on CGCData), this book's sitting in the same ballpark as TMNT: Last Ronin, Batman: Damned, & the JLA/Avengers series in terms of % of books that got above 9.8 (out of 9.8+). Is that high for a stapled book? Probably, but given the above caveats, it's not outrageously so.
re: white corners... so, what about comics that have white covers and backs? Do more of those slip by during the initial pile screening process? Wouldn't there be a decent amount of white 9.9/10's out there? Still can't believe they handle comics without gloves or use a magnifying glass.
I have been a small time comic collector who buys in spurts for about 25 years, there is soooo many things i am learning about comics this year. Where do these pre-screens come from and where do they go? I rarely see graded books at my LCS...this world is weird
The way he handles the comics whilst in the pile is crazy. For me, they shouldn't even be stacked with all the spines aligned. I always alternate and flip them if i find myself having to stack them horizontally. It helps distribute the weight on all those spines.
Hey guys look over here now we’re giving out 9.9’s and 10’s!!! Pay no attention to our continual QC problems. Don’t think about the arbitrary nature of our grading, No we haven’t made any actual changes to any of our processes or products but look you might get a 10.0 on a book!! So keep sending them books in. As always keeeeep smiling.
RE: Two people. I'm wondering if the second person is just going to go through the ones that were not rejected. So before anything actually gets slabbed it might get two looks, but only one person is doing the first rejection.
I'm calling BS, I've been doing this since 1989. I would go through 400/500 copies of a book and pick out the most prestige copies out and I've never gotten a 9.9 or 10.
Also did I miss something…….. but when did publishers and or printers send directly cgc. 🤔 I bet Metropolis gets lots of 9.9 and 10s. Man Mr Pinks collection must be of the hook
I think the issue with this is that it is now about the machinery that prints the comics. There will be equipment, used by some publishers, that cannot produce a 9.9 or 10 because of the sharpness of the cutting components. Or it could produce them when you change the blades but after printing some number of copies they all get bindery tears. To me, it would be better to recognize and then ignore production issues when grading comics. It should be focused on what has happened to the comic once it has arrived at your LCS.
Thank you for this video, recently had a 9.8 downgraded to a 9.6 after sending it in for autographs / remarks. Condition is exactly as it was sent in. By this video it might even be a contender for 9.9
Great video brother. I have so much I want to say about this but don’t wanna drop a bible within the comments section lol but the inconsistency & lack of graders notes from CGC is a complete piss off man. Appreciate you doing this bud! 🙏🏼
He did a quick scan of a pile looking for white corners. He pulled the 9.9-10.0 contenders. When he went back I was able to see more white corners by looking at different angles such as from the back.
I wish their quality control was better. I have a direct comic they labeled as newsstand. This was done last week. Still not heard how they plan to fix the issue. How does that happen? I also think they are being overly critical since their controversy.
A 10 should at LEAST be perfect to the naked eye. What am I missing? I've yet to get any of my books graded and the more I know, the less I want to. But if you have nice books and you want to sell, you have to or you're leaving too much money on the table.
Are their criteria different when it comes from the publisher vs a customer? How would you tell if a bindery tear was a manufacturer defect and not cuz the person read the book?
I was thinking if cgc has two graders looking over books, does the first grader writes down what he thinks, then gives a final grade? Or the books are pass to the 2nd grader and compare his scores too? Then finally given to a head chief or somebody who has the final say? Does anyone know?
Interesting video, still think this whole process is a farce, but that’s just my opinion. It seems like it’s all about the external cover condition, but are CGC going to page count every single book? One very important point that I learnt from many years working in Quality Control, 100% visual inspection is only 70% effective. Human error based on such high volume repetition. Was it just me or did that 10.0 look like it had mark on the right hand side front cover? 🤔
The question that arises with me is as the popularity rises with the lure of these grades, will the publishers put the heat on the manufacturers in producing these elite grades? Meaning, will they make/tweek presses that produce this top grade? I work in corporate retail and I understand the power major companies can put on their vendors. But if we ignore the noise, read our comics, this process will go away. Just sayin…
Based on their criteria in that video, I have sent many books that should have been 9.9 or even 10, and yet, I have never received a 9.9 or 10... Hmm...
Seeing the corners during the very first evaluation could be in slightly different light when viewed in a stack, vs when you inspect them individually under the same light but different angle.
@@johnnydropkicks Not according to this example we just watched, lol. It looks like of 400 received just about 400 were not only 9.8 but 9.8 or better. Looks more like 99% are 9.8 or better according to CGC
@@offcenterideas I think some shops receive books from certain distributors in that manner. I could be mistaken. I agree with you regarding the covers being card-stock and that they are higher quality.
It's neat to see CGC put out some videos on this topic, but tbh, without them putting graders notes on every single book they look at, I don't think they're giving us enough transparency. I got a 9.6 back in my last submission that looks like a 9.8 to me - came from the same stack as 3 9.8s. I'd love to get the book upgraded - but I'm not going to pay for a resubmission or for any extra work like pressing if I don't have any context for what cost it the grade from them.
I think to answer the question “aren’t you spending more time on grading anyways.” Maybe they do their quick 5 point scan to see white and most books don’t pass the greater than 9.8 test. You obviously say this same thing, but that is my opinion on what they do for us sending in 1-5 books at a time. I think this is a great video and will help me in my evaluation on what I send in or what I choose to buy if I have intentions on grading.
The thing missing in your comments is that CGC is charging a pre-screen fee for each book. Unless I’m getting it wrong that 400 book pre-screen was worth thousands in fees. Those fees would cover the cost of quick notes.
What you are not hearing is the "proprietary" side of their grading QC process. He probably checks the page count on 30 books. Weighs all 30 of those, and uses that avg and STD dev to check the other 370 books of the scale. The second set of eyes is probably a camera checking for issues, while on the scale. So 1 human and 1 AI set of eyes. Or at least this is how an Engineer would likely do these things....
Question we shouldn't get hit with fingerprints, right? The botton books, especially for those dark covers or backs. With some of the books out there that use crappy paper.
One reason i appreciate a high grade comic, particularly from say 30 years ago, is because i assume it has been handled and even read! If it goes straight from the publisher and is encapsulated so that it is a comic that can never have been read, what is the point...given what we saw in the video in terms of the grading process the pages inside the 10 could be blank.
There's no way he counted pages or inspected the inside of the book. Hot off the press, straight from the printer, it's just not necessary. The book will be sealed in plastic forever. By the time someone cracks one and finds a page count error or interior scuff, CGC will have long made their money.
"Let me take you through how we're going to completely undermine 20 years of grading so we can make some quick cash"
That's CGC though owned by black rock they need to meet quarterly earnings
This is silly. I can't believe people are paying for this. What an obvious greedy cash grab.
CGC grading is looking more and more like dishonest grift.
If you collected pre-CGC you'd realize it's always been a grift. We graded our books ourselves then some arbitrary company comes in and says, we're professional graders. Hello?
The CGC video shows how NOT to handle books
Watching this video, I am actually now less confident in CGC doing grading between 9.8, 9.9, and 10 books. This is actually quite a damming video about how Cavalier they are in handing out these grades.
But the prob is the dummies will still keep going to them even if they were a restaurant with rats doing the cooking
70 9.9’s from this batch is absolutely bonkers. Like they are just literally SAYING with this video “9.9 is the new 9.8, we messed up before in the last 2+ decades of grading, and this is the new normal.”
I agree it is bonkers, but because the paper is a lot better than before the corners now stay a lot sharper when the comic is folded.... It's as if new books made with modern papers need a new scale if they are to be fair
Crazy but there is someone out there lol
But wait til they hear about the CGC 10.5 and 11 🤯
They just threw all 9.8’s out the window, worthless. But you can always crack and resubmit…lol!
Where is Mr. Graders gloves??? LOL as I type this Mickey says it!
The best way to combat this crap is to be happy with 9.6 and below! It’s the ultimate hipster move
They appear to have skipped the part where some hipster in the receiving department drops your bundle and says... "oopsie", then passes it off to the grader who can officially reject it all. But, it's never their fault because if your books were damaged, it must have been the post office.
😂😂😂😂
Insane . Didn't open not one book. So we are just grading front and back covers now? How and why are ppl giving so much legitimacy to this type of thing ? How much kool-aid we drinking here. He's clearly prepping the collectors for more 9.9s and 10s . What grading scale were they using prior to this . Ugh, such a racket . .
Now? Bad news, covers have been king for a LONG time, lol, especially when it comes to 9.0+ books. I would imagine very very few are ever opened.
Thanks for causing me to imagine the Kool-Aid pitcher guy smashing through a slab and yelling “Oh YEEEEAAAAHHHH!!!”
King? WTF? That's not how you grade a book @@shawnmichaud4484
@@shawnmichaud4484 But when they grade a comic isn't the whole comic graded? I get "covers are the king" but I always thought it was the whole comic if we are talking about the 9.8 range.
@@williamgregg6339just a cash garb 😂
The whole reason condition is important to collectibles is because they’ve been through circulation and withstood the test of time. So the ones that survived the best should obviously be worth more. But if a huge stack of books go straight from the press to the slab, what’s the significance? You’d actually have to go out of your way to find a damaged copy. It’s completely antithetical to what collecting is all about.
I never thought about it that way, but you’re right. A really high-grade copy of any popular comic from the ‘30s through the early ‘60s is sorta like a 12-point buck that managed to survive in the woods all those years.
Yeah, and that plays out over time. You can see that old books in good condition are worth significantly more than new books in great condition that have flooded the market.
Exactly.
@@revoltpuppy This is why I stopped buying new books to collect. I just buy what I like to read. For collecting I just buy Bronze age 9.0 books or better, Amazing Spider-Man/Uncanny X-Men because that's what I collected as a kid in the 70's. I have Every Amazing Spider-Man from #50-441 in 9.0 or better.
Absolutely!
Well said
Once again, CGC is going to piss on our heads and tell us it's raining.
Based upon his video, the selection of what went in the 9.8. 9.9, and 10.0 pile (especially the cutoff from 9.8-9.9 and the cutoff from 9.9-10.0) was almost arbitrary.
As of last month, there wasn't a virgin's chance in Alabama of almost 20% of a 400 book submission straight off the press getting 9.9s.
Buy the book, not the grade. The difference between a 9.6 and a 10.0 is largely how much of a hurry the barely-above-minimum-wage worker with a couple of weeks of training was in to go to the bathroom and not wash their hands before grading more books.
I think the MOST overlooked thing here is that these were all cardstock heavier paper books.
Brand new card stock stuff can get 9.9s but standard comics almost neverrrrrrr can get above 9.8.
I've submitted 7,000 books (or more honestly) and I've only ever gotten 6 9.9s.
All of which were brand new card stock/lenticular/or metal moderns.
CGC cope
@MintHunterComics Any time a comic is being handled by a middleman, like being put on a shelf at a store, the chance of getting that gem mint condition is out of reach.
Lmao what a loser 😭😂😭
Here we are, super carefully handling our books cautiouslly,with a extreme care then they get to CGC... Your book bend slam bam
Dood those books are getting so many finger bends and nicks and dings just by him handling it 🤣 we have got to be f****** kidding
I also thought finger prints affect the grade. His are all over them.
This really is insane…..the whole lot of it …
I'm all for slabbing..... but I really find it amusing the amount obsession over 9.8, 9.9, 10 differences - all differences minute enough that they escape any normal viewing of the book and appreciation of what is just a gorgeous, beautiful copy, regardless.
Precisely why I walk right past any slabbed book. Complete rip off.
9.6 is the best value. If it was raw, you couldn't tell the difference between it and a raw 9.8. And you don't pay the 4x premium
Big fax, The difference between a 9.4-9.8 is negligible at best. It’s just an ego thing in my opinion
I respect your opinion, but that is just untrue.@@dhyde9780
Fantastic Four 51 - now THERE’S a comic book. A million bucks’ worth of storytelling excellence, regardless of condition.
"This is the 10.0 relative to THIS RUN of books" 💯 exactly!! They cannot distinguish a 9.9 or 10.0 by itself, just relative to hundreds of others. So unless you're sending >100 of the exact same book straight from the printer, you WON'T get a 10.0. I guess it's a way for CGC to "thank" the dealers who send hundreds per week. Nothing says 'independent' and 'trust' like good ol' nepotism 😅
Well said. I have submitted over 50 copies on 3-4 occassions after my "prescreen" and not one book got a 9.9 or 10.0.
That’s incorrect. Publisher defects have a defintion.
seems close to accurate
So a manufacturing error on corner where there is a little fuzz on 99.99 percent of all the same issue never get a 9.9 and possibly a 9.8. This grading process is ridicolous
This is so arbitrary and there is no certification for grades
Why are CGC receiving from the printers? Why do I feel I trust this company less every time they speak? Why do I perceive the Earth washing away beneath me when I see all the old CGC slabs in my collection? If 9.9's replace 9.8s Im done with the hobby and Ill burn them all on the ebay pyre. Does this not mean that CGC are saying they graded everything wrong previously? If they are saying that grades are different for the same things that have existed since comic books were born, does this mean they are rewriting history and the grading rules? The biggest take away for me is the factor that human error seems to play in the whole business. The formula has to include at least 15% margin of error, which seems wild, as well as a gut feeling for how I got to 15%. It's is prob more like 30%....
Who else is waiting for the announcement about the upcoming 10.2 pre-screen program?
Only when they’ve squeezed all the cash out of this new ‘standard’
If we're talking about potential 9.9-10s, wouldn't he be putting fingerprints all over those books w/o wearing gloves? Oh, you mentioned that.
Flabbergasted CGC posted this video. It shows how subjective and asinine this 9.8 to 10.0 grading scheme is. And how many of those 9.9s and 10s retain that grade when they go through the encapsulation process? How do you slip the book into the inner mylar well and heat seal it without some minute damage to a corner or edge? What a joke this hobby has become.
I have a 10x magnifier and even the sharpest corner to the naked eye will look like a ragged monster and with more white evident under 10x magnification. Sharpness should be a naked eye determination imo.
Have a look at the staple holes under magnification. Yeesh!
CGC has become a major put off, or it might be just me… Am I trippin?
No shit
There just finding different ways to scam us all over again by giving false hope for 9.9 or 10
LOL I love Mickey’s face going full Robert DeNiro at 19:12 “That’s the 9.9 pile??” 😂😂😂 That was my sentiment exactly 🤯🤦♂️
Still no word on a Solution to swapping of books
Your headline tells the whole story about spec ...it just solidifies how useless it really is to get something graded " 9.8's Are Going To Zero!" So, now are you gonna start saying 9.9 are the only worth while book? I find it hilarious that one Microscopic nick on a book makes it hundreds if not thousands less than the other. You guys do realize you killed the market thinking that way. Now your all holding 9/8's and gonna start crying foul? NAH bro. Come back another day.
Seeing this video of how they determine this devalues 9.9s and 10.0s to me. I habe 9.8s that look as good as they say 10.0s and 9.9s are supposed to be.
These guys just can’t get out of their own way. Based of this video I can do whatever to the interior. Annnnd I thought there were multiple individuals looking at the books. I also love his handling of the books. Yeah they’ve done nothing for me except that I now know the census for MMPR the return is crazy high at 9.8 😂🤣
The other question to ask is that who would submit an entire box of brand new books to be graded by CGC? Probably a big dealer? And big dealers would get all the breaks so I can see these books getting 9.9 and 10 all day long because they’re submitted by a big dealer, the people that own CGC really.
You just described how the US government works using a comic grading reference.
This opens the door to a whole new income stream for CGC. Now everyone is going to second-guess the books that they already have graded and consider cracking them out to have them regrade it for the higher grade
I would say that a large portion of CGC's business over the past five years or so has come from people resubmitting already slabbed books after performing CPR on them in the hopes of a grade bump. That's what made their big crackdown on labeling books that had been cleaned as Restored so odd. Why would they risk killing that revenue stream they have by penalizing people for cleaning books?
Blackstone Tactical needs that return on their investment.
wait not even latex gloves or blacklight like on CSI??? Are we sure he checked the interiors? Maybe we've been too naive and trusting... okay at least we know what we're buying now....
Only CGC could set out to make a video explaining something as simple as publishing defects and instead make a documentary on why they shouldn't be taken seriously as a grading company. Bravo, CGC! Bravo!
A10.0 should literally be perfect. Not the best from the copies inspected "hot off the press," but literally perfect. That's the definition of "mint condition." That book was not a 10. CGC is changing THEIR standards. The comic community, as a whole, should not lower theirs, though really, we already have. CGC should not be THE authority on comic grading.
Overstreet Grading existed LONG before CGC, so CGC really ISN'T the authority on comic grading. They've just convinced the comic collecting public that they are the best graders.
💯
I find it a bit sketchy that the publishers are sending these in to be graded. So are they intentionally holding back on sending quality books to the stores? I dunno just seems weird to me somehow
This!
Wow now I know where those fingerprints come from on my 9.4’s. Hmmmm. Nice vid Swag
Shout out to you my man!! Such a great video. So glad you made it! And suuuper entertaining. Thank you for the love!
It’s been a money grab since the beginning
The only thing different between now and then is that some people are getting smart to it while others have made peace with the fact that they're being lied to because it's the lie they want to hear. For CGC's part, it looks like they care less about trying to preserve the lie and are maybe three or four steps away from turning into the AT&T ad in the movie Crazy People. "“You may think our service stinks…but don’t mess with us because we’re all you’ve got! Without us, you’ll have no damn phones!”
CGC - We’re Tired of Taking Your Crap.
Yep a bit like religion.
Does a little spittle on top of the book, from spray talking, count as manufacture defect?
Great video. This video enforces what I had believed the differences between the ultra high grades. Loved your commentary. Given that these modern are being shipped directly to CGC, there is no question that we will be seeing more and more 10.0s. That 10 in question looks like a light glare to me. Keep it up.
Yup, between the nice padded shipping straight from the printers and (in this case) heavier cardstock covers, it's not a huge surprise these graded better than the average submission.
He just graded the books by just the front and back covers.
10’s are 🦄. 7 out of 400 hmmm 🤔 “Unacceptable !!!” Words by Earl Lemongrab 🍋
Honestly I'm a rookie as far as collecting comics, i have a few.... but after watching this and seeing everyone reactions.... you guys are crazy hahaha.... now it's going to far...
The comic book community, loves the smell of its own farts.
What this video says to me is, "we took a massive hit because of slab-gate so now we're going to lower our grading standards to suck in some customers".
Great video and analysis Mickey! I’m not a huge fan of slabbing, but I do purchase slabbed books off of eBay when it comes to golden/silver age books just to make sure I’m not getting a resto or missing any coupons etc. can’t wait for Sanity issues 2 &3! Cheers!
Same here. 👍
If only each book had a internal serial number. We could then ask this guy to pre-screen them again. He would almost certainly pick different 10 and 9.9 each time. All this video prove is how inconsistent they have become .
This CGC video appears to be more propaganda than informative content, and at worst, it's simply a load of nonsense. It primarily underscores the shortcomings in their grading system, particularly for items rated 9.9 and 10. It's worth noting that the individual presenting was once their senior grader, adding an interesting perspective to their critique. However, the more CGC attempts to enhance their reputation, the more apparent the flaws become.
I look at the centering & cut as well,no staple rips, I am tougher then CGC overall grading. Great video.
I can’t wait to visit the CGC table at my local comic show in April. They got some ‘splaining to do…
The more preserved comic books there are, the less valuable they will be. Part of what makes an CGC 9.8 special is because there aren't supposed to be that many of them out there, let alone a 9.9 or 10.0. Collect what your like, but don't buy into the hype for a perfect new comic book as some kind of investment.
When will CGC talk about when they will be creating tamper proof cases??
In five years, there will come up with the 11.0 score. For the "actually perfect book" 😮💨
I have 20 or so books I've wanted graded for a while. Cool video with info, I have books still in factory seal but now I feel I'll be lucky to see 9.8s
One thing that stood out to me is that he didn’t do anything I couldn’t have done at home and he had zero special equipment or tools.
At least it’s some kind of clue on wtf is going on over at CGC. CBCS should be cashing in on this, but I sent my submission in late November for grading and it’s freaking the middle of March. To be fair I had some sig. verifications so that could be why. Thanks for the video Swaggi H.
This makes me question all my 9.8s, could they possibly be 9.9 or 10s?!
Worth emphasizing his mention of the "heavy cardstock cover" which could make a huge difference (depending on actual paper weight), especially combined with the books never having to make a journey through an FLCS.
For comparison (did some digging on CGCData), this book's sitting in the same ballpark as TMNT: Last Ronin, Batman: Damned, & the JLA/Avengers series in terms of % of books that got above 9.8 (out of 9.8+). Is that high for a stapled book? Probably, but given the above caveats, it's not outrageously so.
Cardstock plays a HUGE part in getting 9.9s and 10.0s.
re: white corners... so, what about comics that have white covers and backs? Do more of those slip by during the initial pile screening process? Wouldn't there be a decent amount of white 9.9/10's out there? Still can't believe they handle comics without gloves or use a magnifying glass.
I have been a small time comic collector who buys in spurts for about 25 years, there is soooo many things i am learning about comics this year. Where do these pre-screens come from and where do they go? I rarely see graded books at my LCS...this world is weird
The way he handles the comics whilst in the pile is crazy. For me, they shouldn't even be stacked with all the spines aligned. I always alternate and flip them if i find myself having to stack them horizontally. It helps distribute the weight on all those spines.
I feel bad most of all for that TEAM CGC 9.8 guy damn
He's fine bro, He's Canadian.
He'll have to make a new channel TEAM 9.9
@@themeansterthen he's really screwed lmao
😂😂😂
Nah, he works for a scam company
Hey guys look over here now we’re giving out 9.9’s and 10’s!!! Pay no attention to our continual QC problems. Don’t think about the arbitrary nature of our grading, No we haven’t made any actual changes to any of our processes or products but look you might get a 10.0 on a book!! So keep sending them books in. As always keeeeep smiling.
RE: Two people. I'm wondering if the second person is just going to go through the ones that were not rejected. So before anything actually gets slabbed it might get two looks, but only one person is doing the first rejection.
The best part of this video was your "That's the 9.9 pile?!!! Look😂
I'm calling BS, I've been doing this since 1989. I would go through 400/500 copies of a book and pick out the most prestige copies out and I've never gotten a 9.9 or 10.
When do you think we will start seeing books in 9.3, 9.5, and 9.7.
Thank U for breaking down CGCs "suspect" breakdown on 9.9/10.0s
Cold day in hell before I ever spend a dime on CGC ever again.
Why you'll never see grader's notes on (most) 9.4's or better: so they don't receive phone calls/e-mails from every submitter arguing the point.
Also did I miss something…….. but when did publishers and or printers send directly cgc. 🤔 I bet Metropolis gets lots of 9.9 and 10s. Man Mr Pinks collection must be of the hook
I think the issue with this is that it is now about the machinery that prints the comics. There will be equipment, used by some publishers, that cannot produce a 9.9 or 10 because of the sharpness of the cutting components. Or it could produce them when you change the blades but after printing some number of copies they all get bindery tears. To me, it would be better to recognize and then ignore production issues when grading comics. It should be focused on what has happened to the comic once it has arrived at your LCS.
Thank you for this video, recently had a 9.8 downgraded to a 9.6 after sending it in for autographs / remarks. Condition is exactly as it was sent in. By this video it might even be a contender for 9.9
Great video brother. I have so much I want to say about this but don’t wanna drop a bible within the comments section lol but the inconsistency & lack of graders notes from CGC is a complete piss off man. Appreciate you doing this bud! 🙏🏼
Great video Swagglehaus
He did a quick scan of a pile looking for white corners. He pulled the 9.9-10.0 contenders. When he went back I was able to see more white corners by looking at different angles such as from the back.
I wish their quality control was better. I have a direct comic they labeled as newsstand. This was done last week. Still not heard how they plan to fix the issue. How does that happen? I also think they are being overly critical since their controversy.
A 10 should at LEAST be perfect to the naked eye. What am I missing? I've yet to get any of my books graded and the more I know, the less I want to. But if you have nice books and you want to sell, you have to or you're leaving too much money on the table.
Agreed!
Well said
Are their criteria different when it comes from the publisher vs a customer? How would you tell if a bindery tear was a manufacturer defect and not cuz the person read the book?
I was thinking if cgc has two graders looking over books, does the first grader writes down what he thinks, then gives a final grade? Or the books are pass to the 2nd grader and compare his scores too? Then finally given to a head chief or somebody who has the final say? Does anyone know?
Interesting video, still think this whole process is a farce, but that’s just my opinion. It seems like it’s all about the external cover condition, but are CGC going to page count every single book?
One very important point that I learnt from many years working in Quality Control, 100% visual inspection is only 70% effective. Human error based on such high volume repetition.
Was it just me or did that 10.0 look like it had mark on the right hand side front cover? 🤔
The question that arises with me is as the popularity rises with the lure of these grades, will the publishers put the heat on the manufacturers in producing these elite grades? Meaning, will they make/tweek presses that produce this top grade? I work in corporate retail and I understand the power major companies can put on their vendors. But if we ignore the noise, read our comics, this process will go away. Just sayin…
I've always wondered whether graders have another person as QA to spot check first round of grading especially with older keys.
Well, since CGC makes up their own grading guidelines, they can make 9.9 or 10 mean anything that they want to.
Based on their criteria in that video, I have sent many books that should have been 9.9 or even 10, and yet, I have never received a 9.9 or 10... Hmm...
14:40 When Mickey realizes that they didn’t even open the book 😂
Seeing the corners during the very first evaluation could be in slightly different light when viewed in a stack, vs when you inspect them individually under the same light but different angle.
This is why 99% of my collection is raw.
So basically only books straight from the printer might get above 9.8…
Even fresh of the press, 99% of comics with staples are a 9.8 or lower.
@@johnnydropkicks Not according to this example we just watched, lol. It looks like of 400 received just about 400 were not only 9.8 but 9.8 or better.
Looks more like 99% are 9.8 or better according to CGC
Bear in mind that that shipping box was much nicer than what the average comic shop gets AND the book has a cardstock cover.
@@offcenterideas I think some shops receive books from certain distributors in that manner. I could be mistaken. I agree with you regarding the covers being card-stock and that they are higher quality.
So question.....does a white cover book have a better chance at the 9.9 or 10? He is looking for mostly white in the damage.
It's neat to see CGC put out some videos on this topic, but tbh, without them putting graders notes on every single book they look at, I don't think they're giving us enough transparency. I got a 9.6 back in my last submission that looks like a 9.8 to me - came from the same stack as 3 9.8s. I'd love to get the book upgraded - but I'm not going to pay for a resubmission or for any extra work like pressing if I don't have any context for what cost it the grade from them.
This industry is on a crash course that isn’t going to be good sadly
I think to answer the question “aren’t you spending more time on grading anyways.” Maybe they do their quick 5 point scan to see white and most books don’t pass the greater than 9.8 test. You obviously say this same thing, but that is my opinion on what they do for us sending in 1-5 books at a time. I think this is a great video and will help me in my evaluation on what I send in or what I choose to buy if I have intentions on grading.
Are we entering a two tier CGC system now? Any pre 2024 9.8=9.9 post 2024? This is stupid.
The thing missing in your comments is that CGC is charging a pre-screen fee for each book. Unless I’m getting it wrong that 400 book pre-screen was worth thousands in fees. Those fees would cover the cost of quick notes.
What you are not hearing is the "proprietary" side of their grading QC process. He probably checks the page count on 30 books. Weighs all 30 of those, and uses that avg and STD dev to check the other 370 books of the scale. The second set of eyes is probably a camera checking for issues, while on the scale. So 1 human and 1 AI set of eyes. Or at least this is how an Engineer would likely do these things....
Now you understand how John from Bronze and Modern Gods received finger prints on his comics
Can't wait to have all my 9.8's change to 9.9s and 10.0 only to be sent back for me to stare longingly at their perfectness through oil slicks!
You think you're getting 9.9s and 10s? Omfg you're so adorable..
@@theayatollahofrockandrolla but, but, but...thats what the prescreen is all about...lol!!
Question we shouldn't get hit with fingerprints, right? The botton books, especially for those dark covers or backs. With some of the books out there that use crappy paper.
One reason i appreciate a high grade comic, particularly from say 30 years ago, is because i assume it has been handled and even read! If it goes straight from the publisher and is encapsulated so that it is a comic that can never have been read, what is the point...given what we saw in the video in terms of the grading process the pages inside the 10 could be blank.
I would have loved to see him pick up a stack and bang all of the books on the bottom edge to get the pile straight. 😂
any fingerprint whatsoever, from no gloves, would make it no longer a 10 right?
the more they show how the sausage is made the more hate theyll bring on themselves
Do other collectables get graders notes? I know that coins and currency don't. They don't have the time to put notes on everything.
There is no way he looked inside the books. None.
Should CGC simply say that 9.9 or 10s are only available for books published 2024 forward?
There's no way he counted pages or inspected the inside of the book. Hot off the press, straight from the printer, it's just not necessary. The book will be sealed in plastic forever. By the time someone cracks one and finds a page count error or interior scuff, CGC will have long made their money.