I KNOW IT’S NOT GREEN SCREEN!!!! Somehow the fact that I called the digital effect of the background green screen when it was an LED projection has become the single most frequent comment, which is infuriating because my not knowing that does NOTHING to alter my criticism that it didn’t look good. A playlist of videos covering the issues with the BBC and transphobic reporting: th-cam.com/play/PLmWFOeT2jEofVIDW9X3OL7GqWuX3Dxopu.html
As a person who did grow up in a "just turn your brain off and take it on faith" sort of conservative Christianity, I have absolutely made comments like the one the Doctor made when I was angry, and then had to backpedal later on. Because of my personal experience and Ncuti's delivery of the line, I thought in the moment that he said what he did out of stress and frustration. I think that is absolutely going to hit folks differently depending on their own experience.
I read is as “surrendering your moral compass is bad” and many faiths desire this of their members. They often don’t get it from them but they sometimes do and I understand why the Doctor is against that, specifically. But that’s the extreme and most people don’t sit at the extreme.
Great post, thx! He was about to blow everyone & everything up! No time to quibble, gotta be direct, and indeed pretty mad/frustrated. It can be settled later with time & communication. Nicely done I thought.
@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914 that wasn't sciences plan, nor did it have anything to do with religion, that was the corporations plan and it was to make money and protect their profits. The Doctor even points out at the top of the episode that the company has been making weapons for both sides of every conflict in the whole sector for decades.
@@chaserseven2886 What you think about when you hear the doctor is that he's against evil, corruption, and cruelty. If you're going to portray capitalism in an episode I find it hard to believe the Doctor would ever be for it.
@@chaserseven2886 bruh capitalism literally only functions when it takes advantage of people and deprives them of the value of their labor. If companies pay workers the true value of their labor they can't make a profit. The only solution to this problem would be employee-owned businesses. But thats not really capitalism is it, that would be called SOCIALISM
In the behind the scenes, Moffat actually calls out that original landmine scene as his inspiration. He was so disappointed that Baker got off the landmine so fast.
That’s Moffat all over. Classic Who did something I was unsatisfied with so I'm going to do it 'properly'….. or at the very least over a longer period, and longer is always better right?
Yeah I actually thought it was a metaphor for MAID at first. Idk what my opinions on MAID are tbh but I was worried cause idk if doctor who is capable of handling that subject with the grace it deserves tbh
While disliking the Faith critique isn't invalid, it's important to remember, even taking out the fact half of the planet will be destroyed, the Doctor and Ruby are about to die so not only is he already stressed but also he's found a solution to the problem and is thrown off by the demand for proof, it's an example of someone who doesn't believe but normally respects a faith is put in a situation where an intrusive thought is brought to the surface and not without at least some motivation, remember she literally shot him and didn't care if he died which what led to Ruby almost dying.
This episode's pacing and suspense were nuts! It didn’t feel like a 42 minute episode. It felt way shorter. I am very happy with this episode. Moffat at his best.
It makes me think of all those 13th Doctor stories where I was constantly checking the clock, or getting distracted on my tablet, because they seemed to just go on forever. Gotta love it.
RE: the child... I represented several children in the YFZ Ranch case, and I can tell you that those kids had very limited real world knowledge. Their knowledge was limited to what their cult told them. So her character actually resonated with me.
Yeah, the little girl really felt like she was brainwashed by the cult she was in, and yes, it's a cult, she kinda feels like how naive and oblivious to the real world I imagine some friends of mine who were VERY Mormon/JW were as kids
@@angeldoe1229 The state disastrously mishandled the situation. I was able to get some of my clients placed with relatives outside the compound. The kids were all healthy and some were extremely intelligent. They were just selectively taught subjects and concepts.
I see what you mean, but i do think it's more of a personal thing, the issue you had. Like in a different Moffat episode, with "are you my mommy" and the gas mask zombies. If you assume they can't be cured, then find out they can later they can, the complaint of "i didn't like kids getting hurt, lol how many kids got hurt!" until the reveal that everybody lives, then saying "oh, they're ok. That makes rewatching easier but it's a flaw of the original story" to me doesn't track. Here, having a hologram of a soldier who was killed by the ambulance as a character/plot point, you need to kill that character, and making the audience care about the man so they understand him and his hologram is part of the story. Needed cruelty, if you will. I think its more of a trust issue. Chibnal broke your trust by being so needlessly cruel so much that when something bad happens, it feels like more of the same and messes with your enjoyment of the episode. Sounds like you need faith in RTD to not mess up. Not blind faith though lol
As a former person of faith, I LOVED that the Doctor called them out on their bullshit and then backpedaled at the end. I read it as him criticizing the institution that got them there in the first place, not the faith itself. Doing whatever your leader tells you is encouraged in religion and it *does* blind you (I know from experience) It's the powers in charge of these religious groups that are the problem, not faith. As for the kid, I agree they clearly wrote it for a younger actor. My head canon is that she's just so indoctrinated she doesn't think of death the same way we do. It's like her dad's in the other room to her
Yes... that's a much better way of articulating what I tried to say elsewhere. Critique the institution, not the people. Critique the blind acquiescence, not the hopeful inspiration.
I think something worth noting with the faith thing is that this is very specifically targeted at the anglican church, which is a state instiution in the uk. We do not have a seperation of church and state here. The king is the anglican equivelent of the pope basically. They dont tend to use that power in the same way but offically thats what the line is. So faith here isnt just in a higher power but also in a state intiution, see them using divinity to mean authority, so to me as someone who is british and was raised anglican it reads way more as targeting the ties between that church and the state and how it can manifest as blind faith in the church also being blind faith in the state. And then having his convo with Splice at the end being a statement of the vaule of faith on an interpesonal level when disconnected from the state or possibly organised religon as a whole. Im not saying your issue with it here isnt valid but there is a nuance here with that cultural context which i wanted to clairfy
I aligned it with Evangelicals here in the US. They are the largest group that justifies their hatred of other people based on their faith. They aren't legally allowed to influence politics but they have found ways around that in recent years. I have to clarify that if you are an evangelical Christian that is tolerant and accepting I am not talking about you. Your leaders have made their position clear.
@@allyson87 Every female character by Moffat is written leagues better than the 13th doctor or yaz, so a moffat episode with 13 couldn't be anything worse than what we got.
Even if Vater’s plot relevance *as a father* doesn’t become clear until sometime after his on-screen death, I’d still argue that his attempt to appeal to the ambulance’s nonexistent humanity establishes the Villengard algorithm and its threat really well.
When the doctor criticised faith I winced at that burn. I'm not a follower of religion of faith so I loved that line but man that was quite the atrack. My dad (who is a practicing priest) loved that line too. As he puts it "I've seen too many people blindly follow the bible and not take into consideration that it was written for a society that hasn't existed for 2000 years". I personally see that comment aimed at people who blindly follow faith without question. Doing so leads to trouble either for yourself or others you interact with. If Monday does return as a companion I hope they explore that aspect. Faith is not a bad thing to have, so long as you don't blindly rely on it
I took it largely as those who are fighting wars and engaging in terrorism based on religious beliefs. But, yeah. I know quite a few people that could apply to.
That’s such an interesting perspective! I hope they bring back Varada as Mundy too, it would be very cool to explore more with her because I have personally seen a lot of interesting Biblical ideas in Doctor Who that have been more or less untapped thus far
good thing, its a thing that can just be a personal took if it doesnt override your critical thinking and living in a society. Also faith work for people, not people for the faith.
A subtle character/story beat I love is the Doctor, despite the danger he's is in, asks Ruby to prioritise trying to help Vater, not only does this choice help to show his selfless heroic personality but also Ruby finding the flesh urn not only deals with the Doctor's balance, holding it ends up saving the day. His selfless action was rewarded, which reminds me of a underrated moment in the Two Doctors when 6 thinks he's going to die but drops everything when he thinks Peri is in danger and that act rewards him with the information that confirms he's not going to die.
Basically, the guy's talent shines the most whenever he is forced to keep things simple, but starts to go off the rails whenever he's allowed to make things complicated.
for me i didn't mind when we found out later about the childs perception of death, what bugged me was there was no 'my dad is dead moment'. First she didn't know he was dead and then when i assume she did she was just looking through photos hapily. Even with the understanding that 'dead' doesn't mean 'gone' for her I feel like there still would have been a sad moment of realisation when she knew she was never going to see her dad again until she died. Also it annoyed me that no one told her what happened, and she had to figure it out herself. I feel like the doctor would have said somthing, or mundy.
Yeah, it was all a bit...off. Her inability to tell the glowing, transparent figure from her real dad really does make you wonder, and I get that no one wants to hurt a child's feelings, but come on...I didn't think that she didn't know what death was, so much as what she had been taught (again the religion aspect) combined with the desperation of the situation to keep her from realizing the truth; but you're right, a scene of her realizing the holo is NOT her dad would have been appreciated.
@@HandofOmega And even the doctor ignoring her question about where her dad was felt reallly jaring. Leaving a child to figure out their parent is dead themself instead of just having a difficult convrsation... very un doctory.
About the twist with the girl's perception on death, it reminded me of an episode of BBC Ghosts were a character "moves on" (basically death but for ghosts) and this other character who she was close to is acting like he doesn't care and just wants to have fun but when he's confronted he's just like "Guys, I've been here thousands of years, I can't break down every time someone goes, I deal with it my own way." And it changes everything about how he was being before.
I think he didn’t attack faith but challenged those with faith. The scenario in which we are talking about, the church was militarised and ordained ministers were soldiers engaged in killing and war. The morality of those with faith from the start was in question. I don’t think the doctor would have had issue with those with faith if they were not engaged in war since I think we have seen the doctor being sincere and friendly to other priests in other story’s, he ever worked for the Catholic Church (granted in a virtual world)
When I was younger it scared the hell out of me when my aunt said she can't wait to die so that she can be with her lord. This was about 24 years ago and that has stuck out to me. I had the same reaction to the kid but I also came around to it as it circling back to the 'life is cheap' line from the Doctor being familiar with Villengard. Her father got special permission to bring her to a battlefield which is wild. People around her die all the time and they're all deeply religious. Very common religious belief that death is just a transition and that a lot of religious people look at it with joy. That mixed with the AI simulants means no one's really gone, I guess. That's how I took it but also it was kind of grating to watch in the moment lol. I agree.
Early on I understood the way the girl was acting. I felt she was a home schooled child who was brought up with great faith which gave her her defined, structured, "innocent" view of the world. Plus she was not scared to go out into the battlefield alone as that had probably been her life since birth her saying he is not gone he is just dead just confirmed the way she had been acting, for me.
Exactly. She's been raised to think of death as a nothing. Telling her that her dad is dead doesn't answer any questions for her - she wasn't asking if he was alive, she was asking where he is.
I'm surprised the Doctor never tried to get Ruby to go back to the TARDIS, maybe trick her into activating the Fast Return which he has doubtless set to take her back home if something irrevocable happens to him. If half the planet was going to blow up, the TARDIS would be the *only* safe place.
I think the honest answer is that a) He didn't expect her to suddenly be shot by a newcomer to the scene, B) He needed her help to avoid blowing up half a planet with all the associated casualties.
@@simonkapadia7582 I'd like to think there's at least some measure of C) the Doctor has learned to accept and respect his companions' decisions when it comes to their safety. But everything he said before she handed him the remains would indicate otherwise.
My reading of the doctor’s comments about faith was that he is very opposed to organized religion and how it can be used to justify war. Conversely, he is pro individual faith: what people need to be able to carry on. The Doctor needs to believe those he’s lost are not gone, which he agrees with Splice at the end of the
I thought the 10 year old, was just scared of admitting to herself was a death happened. She isn't ready to deal with so she tells her the angel story over and over again, especially as she lives on a battlefield, it gives her hope. Only watched it once, before watching your review.
The whole time they were building up Vater's character in the beginning I was constantly thinking "please don't just be a cruel death character" and was very disappointed when he died. But the elation I felt as he became more and more important to the plot and saving the day was hugely satisfying. For me, this is the best episode since Heaven Sent. I was completely captivated the whole way through.
Loved having Moffat back, it brought something to the series that I've felt was missing up until this point. Also, shouldn't there have been more mines on that minefield? It was a real Dawn Summers situation with the kid, meant to be younger but was played by an older actress
Re: more mines. I would thinknif the devices are being planted by their own tech to jeep calculations Precise, it's killing their people in calculated numbers. So they need to keep mines to a precise number, or they'd blow their own customers up too much.
Yeah that's true but nobody was worried about stepping on another landmine? I think there was only one small moment when the doctor said to Ruby that she should pay attention to the ground but I expected more worries in this scenario. But maybe this is just me easily panicking, especially with kids on the battlefield with invisible deadly landmines.
Also, when his stories are contained to a single episode or a two-parter. One of my problems with his seasons as showrunner was that he kept building and building and building and then the resolution in the end of the season would be very fast and right at the very end. I think he can keep a better pacing with an episode or two worth of time.
This argument doesn't hold any water for me. Heaven Sent? WEAT/TDF? The Eleventh Hour? The Day of the Doctor? RTD has stated he doesn't edit or change Moffat’s scripts and Moffat executively produced Boom It may just be the case that writing one script per year is easier than writing many episodes with story arcs AND simultaneously running two different shows
That's true of most (read: all, literally 100%) writers. That's why you often see a decline in the quality of writers over time: the more successful they get, the less likely editors are to criticize, and the less likely they are to receive criticism well -- which is a problem because the whole revision stage is absolutely *crucial* to writing a great story.
Faith is what people use when they don't have good evidence to believe something, some people will use critical thinking in everything, except their faith. Faith is not a reliable path to truth and so really isn't useful.
I did thought of the needless cruelty when the blind soldier was killed in the intro, but very quickly the episode gave him a lot of attention. Especially with the doctor giving Ruby the order that he isn't in a situation that bad, that the person screaming had priorities. Neither had much trouble with the faith rant. Very early the episode established that it was a religious war and seen how pissed the doctor was getting when he thouth Ruby was gone, he picked on the one thing he blamed the whole situation for his friend's end. It was a corporation manipulating people, but faith was the thing it took advantage of and the whole army used as a justification for their actions. As for the kid, I had a reading early that reminded me of the Eaters of light. Seen how the soldiers acted as teens and the kid as an even younger kid, thought it'll be that they had an even slower emotional maturity. That the two centuries of war had made them lack an inportant part of development that made them immature emotionally.
The faith thing I find really interesting. I read it more as an attack against dogmatic faith, especially in the context of organized churches (like highly structured things like the catholic church) or blind allegiance to a military cause. Ruby being confused about the church having/being an army and the Doctor replying that our time and church structure is just a blip further solidifies this reading to me. I do agree that the Doctor goes a bit too hard against faith, especially due to their general appreciation for all aspects of life and culture, but it didn't feel entirely out of line even with the back peddling later. Honestly though, it felt more like a 12 speech than anything else we've got out of Gatwa from his version of the Doctor. I do agree that this is the best episode of the season, and joins Wild Blue Yonder in my list of actually spectacular NuNuWho episodes.
Having faith doesn't automatically make you stop thinking on your own, but it gives you an option to, and unfortunately many people choose that option...
I'd rate it a 9.5/10. Best episode of Doctor Who since Extremis. Pros: - Ncuti was INCREDIBLE. With the scripts RTD has given him so far he hasn't being given a lot of opportunity to do a lot of dramatic acting, so it was refreshing to see him get the opportunity to properly let loose. - The speech critiquing people who use faith as an excuse to go to war was a piece of brilliance, easily the best Doctor speech since the one in the Zygon Inversion. - The anti-capitalism commentary was also spot on, and maps to all the arms dealing going on in the real world. - The ideas of ambulances vacuum sealing bodies into tubes and mines that make the people standing on them the explosives are exactly the kind of wacky sci-fi ideas I watch Doctor Who for. - Moffatt somehow managed to pull off the resolution of a man's love for his daughter defeating an evil algorithm come across as triumphant, and not corny. Cons (admittedly all nit-picks): - I don't get how the man at the start of the episode managed to get himself blinded, considering how we later find out that the only threat in the episode was technology that instakills you. - With all the religious wars going on around the middle east at the moment, Ncuti's comment about Ruby living in one of the few times in history without a religious war doesn't track. - We didn't get much time to get to know Canto, so his death had very little impact on me (although I'm fully aware this may be readdressed if Mundy comes back as a companion and we get to know more about him, as was the case with River Song)
Ncuti was amazing here. I felt like the slower, more contained quality of this episode gave him room to perform and lean into his doctor. It felt like he and the story were able to breathe and create a nice rhythm.
I feel like I've been complaining for years about Doctor Who's tendency to have the Doctor (and/or Companion) running around for a big chunk of the episode, using physical drama as a kind of substitute for more interesting story drama. Making the Doctor stand motionless in the middle of a pit feels like a direct response to that sentiment -- so I loved it. And Gatwa definitely delivered a crazy-good performance. Easily his best (so far).
@@Netherfly I don’t mind the running and the action in theory, but the last two episodes in particular it felt everything was going at 100% so you couldn’t get a sense of who Fifteen was when he wasn’t wisecracking and running around and dropping exposition. It was clunky. Not bad, because Gatwa is excellent anyways, but notably clunky imo. Here, especially in the scene when Ruby is handing over the body canister thing, we get that energy from him, but it feels natural and less performative. I really enjoyed it and I think I’ll give it another watch today
For the faith issue, it seemed to me more that the Doctor was calling her out for being lawful-stupid-paladin at the time. Yeah, the Doctor definitely espouses a scientific worldview (not denying the supernatural, though, but attempting to study it and understand it) but in this specific case we had a character who *was* making stupid decisions out of faith. For the kid having a different view of death, what stood out to me was her interacting with the hologram, in a way which suggested to me that people in this world often interact with holographic AI constructs of their dead loved ones. She’s probably got a holo of her mom back home that she talks to and so for her, her parents really aren’t gone. It’s sort of like if ghosts were perfectly normal things you see every day, and it’s expected that the ghosts of deceased loved ones will pop in from time to time for a chat. Grandma’s “dead”, yeah, but she still sits in her rocking chair and tells stories of when she was young, just like she did when she was alive. And really, this sort of thing is soooooo very Moffatt. He’s used technological ghosts and afterlives quite a bit.
As a person who has come out of a faith…I dislike the walk back. I dunno.The kid’s inability to process death and what’s happening shows a true danger of ONLY relying on faith. But that’s just my interpretation and opinion. It makes the kids actions make sense.
@@stephjovis3469 I feel that it was a cop out. Let his words stand, Faith CAN be an excuse. And in this case, their blind faith led them into a war with themselves.
@@TheTechOrc well the US invaded Iraq 22 years ago using lies and they're still there killing people who defend their country from an invader. So I guess you don't need faith in a God faith in a country telling you you have to die for idk what exactly is enough
That scene where Ruby was putting her foot down about handing the casket to the Doctor really reminded me of someone else and it took me about two hours to realise it was Clara. Ruby was just straight up Clara-ing in that scene. Not an issue really, just...Moffat seems to struggle to write a woman who's not basically Clara or River.
He definitely prefers his archetypes, but still let's not forget about his many other great female characters like Bill, Sally, Shona, Nancy, Vastra, and Ohila.
Ruby already displayed that she won't be cowed by the Doctor & that she is stubborn too. Look at her behaviour in Space Babies when she starts to smash the pipe against the walls to draw out the monster. This is very much Ruby's character.
I myself was glad the show had the guts to go as hard as it did against the faith of Mundy. It was a level of intense opposition that you don't see often, especially in American media so it was refreshing.
It's actually been confirmed that Varada Sethu will be playing a different character next season. Per RTD: "That's the end of Mundy Flynn's story, so quite how Varada returns will be revealed next year." I'm a little disappointed since I thought we were finally getting a companion who's not from contemporary Britain, but holding out hope that this could still be the case with the new character. I enjoyed the episode overall but it kind of felt like Moffat just put all of his well-received episodes in a blender.
They could have added one line to say kids age differently in this time of the future. The space babies were older than they looked, this kid can be younger. It would just take one line and wouldn't feel so weird. Still enjoyed it, Gatwa is so talented.
The Doctor lashing out at faith makes me think of The God Complex. Maybe faith creeps the Doctor out because of guilt that they've abused it before, fear (knowing?) that they'll abuse it again, and the nagging suspicion that they might be abusing it right now.
I guess I really don't know the difference in how kids are supposed to act between different ages because I didn't see anything wrong with her age. Plus, I didn't interpret her lines such as not seeming to know what death is as her being young, just her being indoctrinated.
12:30 BTW it wasn't a green screen. in most of the "bad" CGI shots on the beginning, it was a huge LED screen displaying the background in real time. on later scenes inside of the pit set, it was a huge painting. I don't know why the background felt so disconnected, maybe it's just the crew getting used to filming on a volume. I think it was mostly a post-production thing, they maybe edited it too much, to the point of making it look fake. but the scenes did not, in fact, use green screen.
I think it's because they applied an obnoxious blur to the background in most shots while keeping the characters perfectly in focus. This created a disconnect between character and environment and might have been done to hide issues with the screen that they filmed.
funny you mention the green screen in this episode, because there isn’t one aha. they actually used a big LED screen (sort of like the volume) but i know what you mean, it is noticeable, particularly at the end of the episode.
I read his attack on faith as an attack on the idea of having a holy war essentially or going to war for your faith, but still embracing the idea of believing in something just not causing harm with that some thing
On point 1: I felt like having the daughter be part of the story after Vater died, made it less "fodder"-like that he'd died. To me, they were definitely gonna reference him again and his death would play a role somehow, as a result of that. On point 2: I had the opposite response. As the church and religion has literally become war, and church ranks are now military ranks, I found it extremely fair for the Doctor to be disdainful of it. I am, myself, also very disdainful of Christianity in particular (not necessarily faith, but Christianity specifically - and particular, blind faith or organised religion weaponised against others). So when he then did a turn around at the end, I was actually frustrated and confused. I recognise he was lashing out, but I also didn't understand the line - not liking faith, but needing it anyway. And I recognised in the moment that he was lashing out and very likely being a lot harsher than he usually would be, so I think even if I felt the same as you, it would not necessarily have hampered my viewing experience. On point 3: I tried to write it off as religious indoctrination and being sheltered from realities by others (EVEN THOUGH SHE IS IN A LITERAL WARZONE), but I agree the role was written for a younger actor. Her not viewing death as something important, something mundane and just another thing was jarring for me. Like ???
actually, this episode is probably a televised first for doctor who! it uses neither a green screen nor the quarries, the set uses props and The Volume, which is like a moving digital background so the actors have a better immersion of the space they're in
From the behind the scenes bit I saw (not seen Unleashed yet) it wasn't the actual Volume but Bad Wolf Studios own version of it which would have another name (if it's named at all). Unless you know something specific against what I saw.
@@nathan2134 Okay and cheers for the info. I'm a bit behind with Unleashed so hadn't caught that bit and the clip I'd seen didn't call it that. I thought the Volume was solely the name for the Disney/Lucasfilm location they used for the Mandalorian. It seems it applies to the tech used, not the building.
To add context on the faith issue, the UK is largely agnostic and non religious so we tend to be more critical of organised religion. Not to say no religious people are in the UK, loads are. But it is more widely challenged and vus so is the idea of faith. I understand this may be uncomfortable for other cultures but I do think it's good for anyone to be challenged. I think on last national statistics it was something like, 60% of people identify as agnostic or no alining with any religion, 15% identity as spiritual or believing in a higher power but not any organised religion and 25% identity with an actual religion. However the studies I have looked at about this could be better and I suppose it's a hard thing to gather data on
Re faith: I will always love and remember the quote from Delenn in Babylon 5: "Faith and reason are like shoes; you can walk much farther with both than just one." As I've grown up, I've learned that faith doesn't just mean religion or faith in a higher power, but can also be faith in core principles where it isn't possible to reason out a solution. In particular, an approach of pure reason will frequently run into the problem that the future is deeply unpredictable, you can't even reliably predict odds. Thus, to make any decision you need some faith. Anyone who claims otherwise isn't being entirely honest.
I'm happy to see you write that in your second paragraph. I'm not religious in any way, never have been, highly likely I never will be but I consider myself to have faith. Faith goes way beyond and exists outside of any religious or so-called 'higher powers'. The various religions like to lay claim and ownership of faith but that's their usual rubbish they always do.
This episode was all I ever wanted for this season. I've just not emotionally connected with the show much since Capaldi left, so it was so nice to feel that love again for the show (and the Doctor -- Ncuti really clicked into place as the Doctor for me here). 😍
I feel completely the opposite about the fact that the not-just-fodder soldier is a dad, even on my single viewing. When covering the damages of war in a story line, it isn't needless cruelty to be reminded that harm is done to everu family member left behind. It's a critical part of the message. I understand what you're saying for random alien story with the first harm we see, but fully humanizing the victims of war - ALL of the victims - is a valid choice. It should hurt.
Moffat’s an atheist. Like everyone else, he’s free to criticize faith. While I was growing up, many religious people used the media to proselytize their brand of religion without being challenged. Now there is push back and I’m glad. When I was young I never knew non-belief was an option. I don’t think religious people are stupid. I used to be one and I know I didn’t gain any I.Q. points when I realized I no longer believed. I also didn’t lose my morals. Love your reviews.
I'm not sure when it began, but the first "identical cousins" thing I remember was _The Patty Duke Show,_ back in 1963, when I was a kid. Jeannie, in _I Dream of Jeannie,_ had a fraternal twin sister who sure looked and sounded like an identical twin; and Samantha, in _Bewitched,_ also had an identical cousin. But that's all from American television. What British television was doing at the time I've no idea.
@@HandofOmega yes they only met on the set of doctor who I met caitlin and karen earlier this year it still amazes me how alike they look as caitlin has grown up she is looking more and more like karen
I have a cousin that looked very much like me when I was young but as we got older, we grew to look more like our own mothers. (We were related though our fathers). We also have a male cousin who looked an awful lot like one of my dad's cousins when they were both young and long-haired (one of them now is bald and the other has long hair, still.) Really trippy.
I knew a girl in high school once who had two younger sisters, and all three of them were indistinguishable! Aside from the current age difference, which of course stayed the same gap between them but they all three were growing up, and my friend at age six had looked exactly like the middle sister at six, who looked exactly like their six-year-old sister did then. Their mom had to write the date and who was in each picture on the back, because even she couldn't tell them apart otherwise. And the eldest was looking more and more like her mother as she matured. It was enough to make me wonder about parthenogenesis, given that they had only recently documented it in complex larger animals like komodo dragons and sharks.
I agree with your point about the age of the child, i was bothered by her insistence on the hologram being literally her father. It doesnt make sense she wouldnt have seen the techology before that and at least get a brief explanation of what it is and how it works at the age she is :/
Or alternatively. she's a child in a war zone so has likely seen that technology a lot, is used to it and has been taught (in this case likely indoctrinated) to believe that her father isn't dead. To her it would be completely normal and she'd have no reason to question it.
The favorite part of the episode for me is that he didn’t just flash the sonic screwdriver at it & disarm it. Very much like the Second Doctor, he had to work his way through everything with nothing but his knowledge & wits, ie Heaven Sent. And speaking of Heaven Sent, that is an episode I I didn’t get on the first viewing. I had to watch it about 3 times before everything made sense to me. All in all, one of my favorite episodes in a very long time.
I see the issues you raised and have thoughts: 1. Unnecessarily cruel: I disagree that showing him as a father was excessively cruel. Even if we didn't get more about the family dynamic, I have no problem with the story showing a soldier as a person with a life outside their job. War has ripple impacts outside those immediately on the battlefield. Not enjoying every moment is kinda key to the message of the story. It should hurt. You should feel awkward and discomfort watching a story like this. 2. "Faith": The doctor's speech annoyed me also, but my issue is ultimately with everyday English--that we use the same umbrella term for "blind faith" and a more critical rational faith. I understood the doctor's rant as geared primarily toward "blind faith" but that would sound clunky in this context. However, along the issue of faith, I don't love how they explained the reason for war narrative. If they were going to show the soldiers questioning what they've been told, we should've seen more overt thought stopping cliches. When these doubts aren't actively pushed away nor do they seem to change their behavior, and we don't get a sense that there's any opposition to the war, it makes the people of this world come off as dumb and 2-dimensional. So I guess Moffat still struggles to write characters that aren't like him/how he sees himself. 3. Kid: I agree she looked too old for the role, but not for her conceptualization of death. Coming from the Bible Belt and knowing military and farm families, that's not too far off; it's a coping mechanism. Her character raised questions that weren't really answered: (1) What did she mean by "gathered her up"? Was that literal or euphemism? Seeing how the soldiers died, that line made me think of for-profit healthcare systems. I would have liked a little more information about what wider culture these soldiers believed they were going to war to protect. So either change that line or show me a quick scene or montage, maybe with the memories slideshow, that tells me about their world outside of the battlefield. (2) Why was she there? The line about getting special approval didn't cut it for me. That just felt like lazy writing. Maybe in this world, people of a certain class fight the wars; the families follow the soldiers and live on base. Show a few other children and caregivers in the background. That was just a quick off the cuff alternative I thought of while typing this, but it fixes her character except for the actor looking too old to be so impulsive; we don't need a dead mother or the kid's line about the meaning of death. It would also add to the anti-capitalism/war-profiteering message. This is what I hate about Moffat's writing! It's so easy to flesh out/fix these characters, but it requires seeing diverse people as dynamic and complex.
While I love the actors and their energy - I’m having trouble with the speed of the intimacy of their relationship. It just comes off as unearned and “love bomby”. Like if any new friend spoke like this to me I would expect that they spoke to everyone the same way and that our friendship was not actually genuine but just performative. I dunno - it just feels like Moffat and company took a shortcut on building the foundation of this relationship in order to drive it as a finished vehicle which actually makes the characters feel vapid and superficial. And I hate that because this friendship would be top tier if it had been actually built.
I think it is okay for things to be justified later because it answers why something feels off and if it’s a good explanation it’s okay to be waiting for it. This all being said in the perspective of a first watch.
I wish Moffatt had added the word “blind” in front of “faith”. When faith descends into blind, no questioning, no thinking for yourself cult-like territory, that’s when it becomes destructive and dangerous. How many wars have been fought in the name of organized religion, how many have been burned at the stake, beheaded, tortured, because they dared to question. It is happening still. Faith is a source of comfort and peace for so many. But like anything else, it can be taken to extremes, with catastrophic results. That’s how I choose to read this episode. Especially with Splice’s unexpected view of her father’s death, which shows the Doctor a new perspective. Her faith is telling her that her dad’s soul is eternal, and she will see him again. She comforts the Doctor instead of the other way around.
Faith is inherently a denial of observable reality. It’s not an incorrect statement, it just makes us uncomfortable. The Doctor is in a stressful situation that makes him lash out. He’s also not wrong. Capitalism with ‘checks and balances” is healthier than without, but it’s still a system prioritizing outcomes that makes removing checks and balances incentivized.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox Faith isnt really denial, it is if you let it override like your sense of self, but i think most religious people can seperate that . Or i hope they do. Faith just neve rshould be a persons entire personality. Thats going culty. Or stop critical thinking
No, I think you got it right the first time: the child actress was too old for the role. For the Faith position to be a different world view from the future, it should have been explained by one of the adult characters, not the child. As written, played by a younger actor, the faith expressed being admired by the Doctor still works, if expressed by a child. Showing up his jaded nature after living for thousands of years compare to the innocence of a child.. This is not saying that her dad didn't go to heaven, but people of faith still grieve when their loved ones die. They don't just say: "oh well, I'll see them later as if they have just walked out of the room.
I like that sometimes art making you uncomfortable and then soothing your concerns is a really thrilling experience.the second time with edges worn off is more pleasant and enjoyable as an experience, but is it as fulfilling? The hurt makes it work for me.
It depresses me that folk think Moffat's best work is in the RTD-era. Because his work for Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi is far, far, more interesting. He's, frankly, modern Who's best writer, and for me he is also the best showrunner of the three too.
Here's a potentially helpful alternative way to frame the better-on-a-second-watch issue with regards to the daughter's behavior surrounding death. We find out at the end that she actually does understand that her father has died, but she has this different and interesting perspective on it (we still don't really know if it's her character's perspective or the prevailing cultural perspective; either way is interesting). BUT, if we had found that out at the beginning, then we would get to see two conflicting perspectives on death play out over the course of the episode as people are dying and characters react to those deaths. Imagine the character moment that might have been if Ruby had been hit much harder by Vater's death than his own daughter was, because Ruby is really thinking about the absence of her own parents. The interesting thing about seeing the different cultural perspectives of different time periods, places, or alien races is to see a story in which contrasting viewpoints each get their arguments across. But Splice's viewpoint here is hidden for the sake of a (frankly not that impactful) surprise, at the expense of the audience engaging with the viewpoint clash for the duration of the episode.
Also, can we talk about the "Dad" thing? I'm really loving that we're (finally) gonna be exploring that aspect of the Doctor's character (or so it seems). I'm not super enamored with the fan-theory that Ruby, herself, is Susan... but I would like to see more of that parental dynamic explored. And Ncuti Gatwa definitely seems more than up to the task of being a Dad-Doctor.
@@HandofOmega Pretty much what it says on the tin. That scene in 'Boom' where the robot scans Ruby, and gives her age at 3000+ years, and then can't locate any next of kin? The theory says that number isn't based on some historical database, but her actual physical age. So she's a Time Lord, abandoned as a baby, much like the War Master in 'Utopia.' And Time Lord shenanigans surrounding that would be at the root of all the weirdness around the day she was abandoned. It may also be pertinent (but maybe not, considering how little Doctor Who pays attention to its own continuity) that the Anglican Marines, as seen in Boom, were previously stated to be from the 51st century, in which case Ruby -- being from the 21st century -- would be far, far older if they were judging her based on historical records. We're talking more like 30,000 years than 3,000. Not sure I really buy it. Seems a bit on-the-nose for a season where one of the big clues/red herrings is a mysterious recurring character/face played by an actress named "Susan Twist." But also... I wouldn't exactly put it past RTD, either. He's never exactly shied away from hiding things in plain sight in the past.
Regarding your question about whether something being better on a second watch makes the issues you had on first watch redundant; I'd be interested to know if you've watched the seventh Doctor story Ghost Light yet and if so, what did you think of it on first watch? That's a story a lot of people agree is baffling on first watch, but that you need to watch it multiple times in order to get your head around it and see how great it is.
@@Mrazmatmahmood That might be because it was rewritten into its current form, from originally taking place in the Doctor's ancestral home on Gallifrey! (you can see the original vision in the novel Lungbarrow)
@@HandofOmega Oh yeah, it's obvious Ghost Light went through a lot of rewrites and tight editing to end up in the three episode format it was broadcast in. The special edition version on the S26 blu ray is great and allows the story time to breathe.
loved it - the script was a Banger Ncuti's performance was explosive and I found it really fascinating how it handled what Ruby and the Doctor would do in a hopeless situation without any chance of surviving and how the Doctor was furious at the humans for letting their religious fanaticism made them being tricked into going to war against a non-existing foe for the sake of money
The child revealing that she knows what death is works for me as we're in the same position as the Doctor to that point. We don't look down on his reaction as we're sharing it.
hard agree on all the points you said. I really think that despite the interesting point at the end and the father feel good, that this episode would have been better without the kid. just have the Anglican be someone with the proper authority, then have her call it off after her friend dies. that would also be super powerful.
13:58 They already confirmed when the episode aired that Varada Sethu is not playing Mundy again, when she becames the companion it will be a different character
That's a bit disappointing. I think there was an interesting dynamic here. Though maybe they didn't want another grieving companion after Graham (and Clara).
Not the same, but as a classical music buff, I kind of expect not to 'get' certain pieces (i.e., long romantic and post-romantic symphonies, certain pieces written in more modernist idioms) the first time. All I ask for, on first hearing, is for the composer to give me the incentive to listen again. And I have a similar feeling towards certain works of *literary* fiction, where re-reading is kind of expected (and where you can go back even during the first reading). But I agree that different criteria apply for a TV episode. It's one thing for subsequent viewing to enrich your experience, give you more than you picked up on initially; but it's different if what felt like a major problem is only fixed at the end. It's not a deal-breaker for me, especially in the age of streaming where the option for re-viewing can almost be taken for granted; but it is a minus
32:00 I don't know, I feel like there's a diffrence between being expected to do homework to watch a show, and needing to finish an episode. Obviously, how it made you feel the first time you watched it is important context when giving a review, but I don't think it's fair to call them mistakes when all the information you need is contained in something you can watch in one sitting.
The Doctor's view of faith makes perfect sense. He's a person who thinks his way out of a situation-a troubleshooter, essentially (and if you get that joke, ten thousand bonus points). He would certainly be uncomfortable with relying on faith for anything.
It's really clear to me that these first 3 episodes would have benefited from maybe another 5 or 10 script revisions. Especially Boom. It was nearly structurally perfect. I wonder what was stopping them from waiting just another week or so for a better script
I can absolutely see the elements of Rose and Clara present in Ruby, but I'm not picking up any specific Amy Pond influences. Anyone care to elaborate?
I personally think faith is an intersting angel to tackle. As sombody he has studied philosophy ethics and Christianity it is possible and important to discuss faith in both possitive and negative lights. Its a fact of life, it should be talked about.
In the Doctor Who Unleashed behind the scenes episode for Boom, they show that there isn't much green screen at all (if any) in this episode. They're actually using those LED screens that Disney uses for their Star Wars shows, including the entire sky and the TARDIS interior being visible from the exterior. Your issue with the visuals isn't cheap green screen at all, you're actually taking issue with very expensive LED panels.
12:30 this episode was not filmed on green screen, it was filmed against an LED screen (like the ‘Volume’ used to film the Mandolorian) this is mentioned in Doctor Who Unleashed
the doctor who youtube channel released a behind the scenes vidio featuring 'mundy' and the actor said somthing about being excited to further explore the character so i assume she's going to come back as her. Also to add to doctor who's dopleganger situation peter capaldi also played the roman dad in the fires of pompai
@@Robotsneakers so the doctor has 2 identical cousins! God add another and this will become a moffat worthy plot line full of timey wimy wibbly wobbly... stuff
I really enjoyed the episode for the most part. There were points I didn't realize I was holding my breath until I exhaled in relief. I had to reflect on the comments about faith as I am a person of faith myself. I've never loved how Moffat's military are the Church, and there was a bit of a feeling in the script that faith is ok for kids (the daughter) but the adults (the soldiers) should know better. For me and many of the people of faith I know, faith is not blind or naïve, but something that is tested, stretched, and proved repeatedly throughout their life. After reflection, I can respect that this is a depiction of how bad things can be when religion is too enveloped in worldly things and principles, like war and financial profit.
This episode had some good stuff in it, but ultimately it was like Moffat warming up - it needed to cook a little longer. I'm fully on board with this cast and with the returning leadership, but I'm still marginally concerned that they won't find their way back. I had an issue with the kid as well, but comments below reminding me that she's naïve/indoctrinated etc. makes sense.
I was slightly disappointed about the resolution of this episode, it keeps building in tension but then the overall situation is solved pretty quickly through convincing the AI to attack the system. It just seemed a bit rushed to me (which is a common criticism I have of Moffat’s writing tbh). Hearing you enjoyed it more on the second watch does give me hope that I might be able to look past this more later on but right now it’s stopping me from loving this episode as much as other people seem to.
It would be so nice to have a companion who isn't from modern-day earth again. I wish they would go a bit harder than human from the future but I'll take what I can get.
One issue I had with the episode was the doctor using his experience as a dad to empathize with vater’s ai specifically because, due to the nature of the show, we’ve never seen the doctor as a long term father in which he would have developed this understanding. It’s implied, of course, but never earned. I think it’s an issue to hint to new viewers that you could go back and see that era of the show when it literally doesn’t exist. It is similar to the trauma of the time war at the beginning of the revival era and the doctor empathizing as the last of his kind except that we have since been able to see those events play out in a way that I don’t see how we could with the doctors fatherhood status.
I dont think its fair to ding an episode for a plot turn that then gets improved within the same episode. I can totally get behind the faith thing being an issue if the Doctor then didn't clarify his stance until a future episode - but the fact that he clarified his stance in the same episode means that the episode did what it needed to do in my opinion.
Even before setting aside my own negative bias against faith, I didn't think The Doctor was even being too harsh to begin with. As was already stated in this video, we're in the fictional realm of extremes. Extreme war profiteering AND extreme faith. Sure, not all people with faith throw logic out the window, but some people definitely do, and those people, their behaviors are worth admonishing. More importantly, in the context of this episode, I dont even see the criticism of blind faith as one that is pointed at religion, at least not primarily. I see the target being laid more squarely on the military. The military (my country's especially, writing as an American) relies upon blind faith just as much, if not more than religious institutions. Armies, governments, individuals do abhorrent things without question because yessir 🫡 devotion to some maligned cause. In Boom, the church functions as an extrapolation and exaggeration of the problems inherent to the military. Questioning your orders is questioning your very purpose in life. I was so glad Moffat came back to give us more about his most interesting world building from 11's run: The complete dissolution of seperation between church and state. Admittedly, I think i can be a bit harsh on people with faith so I loved this episode digging into it, and even had the opposite reaction when the backpedaling happened, but don't actually mind it, after swallowing my bitterness. I dont think this episode was too harsh in the slightest.
I think there's a HUGE difference between what Boom does and what you describe with Hasbin Hotel. The former may noy explain things upfront, but it does reveal the necessary information before the episode ends, whereas the latter demands you consume supplementary media in order to get that necessary information. One is a complete story within itself, whilst the other is not, and I think it's a mistake to conflate those two very distinct ways of storytelling.
I KNOW IT’S NOT GREEN SCREEN!!!! Somehow the fact that I called the digital effect of the background green screen when it was an LED projection has become the single most frequent comment, which is infuriating because my not knowing that does NOTHING to alter my criticism that it didn’t look good.
A playlist of videos covering the issues with the BBC and transphobic reporting: th-cam.com/play/PLmWFOeT2jEofVIDW9X3OL7GqWuX3Dxopu.html
This videos is awesome
LOL, literally came for this comment.
As a person who did grow up in a "just turn your brain off and take it on faith" sort of conservative Christianity, I have absolutely made comments like the one the Doctor made when I was angry, and then had to backpedal later on. Because of my personal experience and Ncuti's delivery of the line, I thought in the moment that he said what he did out of stress and frustration. I think that is absolutely going to hit folks differently depending on their own experience.
@@brucesimmons5517blind faith is bad
I read is as “surrendering your moral compass is bad” and many faiths desire this of their members. They often don’t get it from them but they sometimes do and I understand why the Doctor is against that, specifically. But that’s the extreme and most people don’t sit at the extreme.
Great post, thx! He was about to blow everyone & everything up! No time to quibble, gotta be direct, and indeed pretty mad/frustrated. It can be settled later with time & communication. Nicely done I thought.
@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914 that wasn't sciences plan, nor did it have anything to do with religion, that was the corporations plan and it was to make money and protect their profits. The Doctor even points out at the top of the episode that the company has been making weapons for both sides of every conflict in the whole sector for decades.
@@Altmetalpunk except when their factories are turned into banana groves…
Ah, the Doctor is once again anti-Capitalism... the natural order has restored.
The Chibnall centrist evil has been defeated!
@@chaserseven2886 What you think about when you hear the doctor is that he's against evil, corruption, and cruelty. If you're going to portray capitalism in an episode I find it hard to believe the Doctor would ever be for it.
@chaserseven2886 they are anti-oppression and pro-equity. Not hard to imagine all the ways capitalism gets on their naughty list.
@@Faction.ParadoxCof Kerblam! Cof
@@chaserseven2886 bruh capitalism literally only functions when it takes advantage of people and deprives them of the value of their labor. If companies pay workers the true value of their labor they can't make a profit. The only solution to this problem would be employee-owned businesses. But thats not really capitalism is it, that would be called SOCIALISM
In the behind the scenes, Moffat actually calls out that original landmine scene as his inspiration. He was so disappointed that Baker got off the landmine so fast.
That’s Moffat all over. Classic Who did something I was unsatisfied with so I'm going to do it 'properly'….. or at the very least over a longer period, and longer is always better right?
The next one he writes will be a retelling of 7th dangling from his umbrella, but for an hour.
"He was disappointed that Baker got off the landmine so fast." this sentence feels weird when singled out 😅
@@intergalactic92on this occasion, perhaps he was right. It was a great idea and episode
As a forever disabled person the Eugenics Ambulance was terrifying.
Yeah I actually thought it was a metaphor for MAID at first. Idk what my opinions on MAID are tbh but I was worried cause idk if doctor who is capable of handling that subject with the grace it deserves tbh
While disliking the Faith critique isn't invalid, it's important to remember, even taking out the fact half of the planet will be destroyed, the Doctor and Ruby are about to die so not only is he already stressed but also he's found a solution to the problem and is thrown off by the demand for proof, it's an example of someone who doesn't believe but normally respects a faith is put in a situation where an intrusive thought is brought to the surface and not without at least some motivation, remember she literally shot him and didn't care if he died which what led to Ruby almost dying.
This episode's pacing and suspense were nuts! It didn’t feel like a 42 minute episode. It felt way shorter. I am very happy with this episode. Moffat at his best.
It makes me think of all those 13th Doctor stories where I was constantly checking the clock, or getting distracted on my tablet, because they seemed to just go on forever. Gotta love it.
@@Netherfly absolutely
RE: the child... I represented several children in the YFZ Ranch case, and I can tell you that those kids had very limited real world knowledge. Their knowledge was limited to what their cult told them. So her character actually resonated with me.
Same here.
Thank you for sharing your first-hand knowledge!
Yeah, the little girl really felt like she was brainwashed by the cult she was in, and yes, it's a cult, she kinda feels like how naive and oblivious to the real world I imagine some friends of mine who were VERY Mormon/JW were as kids
I'm sorry that they weren't able to be fully separated from the flds, makes me angry to this very day
@@angeldoe1229 The state disastrously mishandled the situation. I was able to get some of my clients placed with relatives outside the compound. The kids were all healthy and some were extremely intelligent. They were just selectively taught subjects and concepts.
I see what you mean, but i do think it's more of a personal thing, the issue you had. Like in a different Moffat episode, with "are you my mommy" and the gas mask zombies. If you assume they can't be cured, then find out they can later they can, the complaint of "i didn't like kids getting hurt, lol how many kids got hurt!" until the reveal that everybody lives, then saying "oh, they're ok. That makes rewatching easier but it's a flaw of the original story" to me doesn't track.
Here, having a hologram of a soldier who was killed by the ambulance as a character/plot point, you need to kill that character, and making the audience care about the man so they understand him and his hologram is part of the story. Needed cruelty, if you will.
I think its more of a trust issue. Chibnal broke your trust by being so needlessly cruel so much that when something bad happens, it feels like more of the same and messes with your enjoyment of the episode. Sounds like you need faith in RTD to not mess up. Not blind faith though lol
i also wouldnt be shocked if we saw his family, after all they were mentioned and are splice's grandparents
As a former person of faith, I LOVED that the Doctor called them out on their bullshit and then backpedaled at the end. I read it as him criticizing the institution that got them there in the first place, not the faith itself.
Doing whatever your leader tells you is encouraged in religion and it *does* blind you (I know from experience)
It's the powers in charge of these religious groups that are the problem, not faith.
As for the kid, I agree they clearly wrote it for a younger actor. My head canon is that she's just so indoctrinated she doesn't think of death the same way we do. It's like her dad's in the other room to her
Yes... that's a much better way of articulating what I tried to say elsewhere. Critique the institution, not the people. Critique the blind acquiescence, not the hopeful inspiration.
I think something worth noting with the faith thing is that this is very specifically targeted at the anglican church, which is a state instiution in the uk. We do not have a seperation of church and state here. The king is the anglican equivelent of the pope basically. They dont tend to use that power in the same way but offically thats what the line is. So faith here isnt just in a higher power but also in a state intiution, see them using divinity to mean authority, so to me as someone who is british and was raised anglican it reads way more as targeting the ties between that church and the state and how it can manifest as blind faith in the church also being blind faith in the state. And then having his convo with Splice at the end being a statement of the vaule of faith on an interpesonal level when disconnected from the state or possibly organised religon as a whole. Im not saying your issue with it here isnt valid but there is a nuance here with that cultural context which i wanted to clairfy
I aligned it with Evangelicals here in the US. They are the largest group that justifies their hatred of other people based on their faith. They aren't legally allowed to influence politics but they have found ways around that in recent years.
I have to clarify that if you are an evangelical Christian that is tolerant and accepting I am not talking about you. Your leaders have made their position clear.
Now more than ever, the tragedy of 13 not getting a Moffat episode is felt
What the bad writing did to 13 was a crime....
Every doctor should get at least one episode by each of the 3 showrunners. Hell, I’d even be cool with Ncuti getting a Chibnall episode at some point.
Idk, Moffat is soooo horrible at writing women. I wouldn't have trusted him with anything more than a "doctor-lite" episode, like Blink.
@@allyson87He got better at it towards the end of his run admittedly. Look at Bill.
@@allyson87 Every female character by Moffat is written leagues better than the 13th doctor or yaz, so a moffat episode with 13 couldn't be anything worse than what we got.
Even if Vater’s plot relevance *as a father* doesn’t become clear until sometime after his on-screen death, I’d still argue that his attempt to appeal to the ambulance’s nonexistent humanity establishes the Villengard algorithm and its threat really well.
When the doctor criticised faith I winced at that burn. I'm not a follower of religion of faith so I loved that line but man that was quite the atrack. My dad (who is a practicing priest) loved that line too. As he puts it "I've seen too many people blindly follow the bible and not take into consideration that it was written for a society that hasn't existed for 2000 years". I personally see that comment aimed at people who blindly follow faith without question. Doing so leads to trouble either for yourself or others you interact with. If Monday does return as a companion I hope they explore that aspect. Faith is not a bad thing to have, so long as you don't blindly rely on it
I took it largely as those who are fighting wars and engaging in terrorism based on religious beliefs. But, yeah. I know quite a few people that could apply to.
That’s such an interesting perspective! I hope they bring back Varada as Mundy too, it would be very cool to explore more with her because I have personally seen a lot of interesting Biblical ideas in Doctor Who that have been more or less untapped thus far
good thing, its a thing that can just be a personal took if it doesnt override your critical thinking and living in a society. Also faith work for people, not people for the faith.
A subtle character/story beat I love is the Doctor, despite the danger he's is in, asks Ruby to prioritise trying to help Vater, not only does this choice help to show his selfless heroic personality but also Ruby finding the flesh urn not only deals with the Doctor's balance, holding it ends up saving the day. His selfless action was rewarded, which reminds me of a underrated moment in the Two Doctors when 6 thinks he's going to die but drops everything when he thinks Peri is in danger and that act rewards him with the information that confirms he's not going to die.
Moffat should just write a bottle episode every couple years and everyone will be happy
Twice per season please
His bottle episodes are far better than almost anyone elses
Basically, the guy's talent shines the most whenever he is forced to keep things simple, but starts to go off the rails whenever he's allowed to make things complicated.
@@EmeralBookwise i think you're spot on. He's one of those writers/directors that needs constraints to flourish
for me i didn't mind when we found out later about the childs perception of death, what bugged me was there was no 'my dad is dead moment'. First she didn't know he was dead and then when i assume she did she was just looking through photos hapily. Even with the understanding that 'dead' doesn't mean 'gone' for her I feel like there still would have been a sad moment of realisation when she knew she was never going to see her dad again until she died.
Also it annoyed me that no one told her what happened, and she had to figure it out herself. I feel like the doctor would have said somthing, or mundy.
Yeah, it was all a bit...off. Her inability to tell the glowing, transparent figure from her real dad really does make you wonder, and I get that no one wants to hurt a child's feelings, but come on...I didn't think that she didn't know what death was, so much as what she had been taught (again the religion aspect) combined with the desperation of the situation to keep her from realizing the truth; but you're right, a scene of her realizing the holo is NOT her dad would have been appreciated.
@@HandofOmega And even the doctor ignoring her question about where her dad was felt reallly jaring. Leaving a child to figure out their parent is dead themself instead of just having a difficult convrsation... very un doctory.
The girl moved on quickly because they weren't prepared to end the episode with a grieving girl. Bit of a cop out really.
@@JayJamsSpams they could have had it when she first found out he isn't alive
Yeah this is EXACTLY the biggest problem I have with this episode. It bugged me so much!
About the twist with the girl's perception on death, it reminded me of an episode of BBC Ghosts were a character "moves on" (basically death but for ghosts) and this other character who she was close to is acting like he doesn't care and just wants to have fun but when he's confronted he's just like "Guys, I've been here thousands of years, I can't break down every time someone goes, I deal with it my own way." And it changes everything about how he was being before.
Robin, my love! 💜🌈👻
@@chrisleneil bestest boy 💙
@@chrisleneil he’s not just a pretty face!
I think he didn’t attack faith but challenged those with faith. The scenario in which we are talking about, the church was militarised and ordained ministers were soldiers engaged in killing and war. The morality of those with faith from the start was in question. I don’t think the doctor would have had issue with those with faith if they were not engaged in war since I think we have seen the doctor being sincere and friendly to other priests in other story’s, he ever worked for the Catholic Church (granted in a virtual world)
He didn't attack faith at all. People believing stuff don't get a free pass just because they believe stuff.
When I was younger it scared the hell out of me when my aunt said she can't wait to die so that she can be with her lord. This was about 24 years ago and that has stuck out to me. I had the same reaction to the kid but I also came around to it as it circling back to the 'life is cheap' line from the Doctor being familiar with Villengard. Her father got special permission to bring her to a battlefield which is wild. People around her die all the time and they're all deeply religious. Very common religious belief that death is just a transition and that a lot of religious people look at it with joy.
That mixed with the AI simulants means no one's really gone, I guess. That's how I took it but also it was kind of grating to watch in the moment lol. I agree.
Hugs
Exactly. He's not gone, he's just dead. My favourite line from the episode.
Early on I understood the way the girl was acting. I felt she was a home schooled child who was brought up with great faith which gave her her defined, structured, "innocent" view of the world. Plus she was not scared to go out into the battlefield alone as that had probably been her life since birth her saying he is not gone he is just dead just confirmed the way she had been acting, for me.
Exactly. She's been raised to think of death as a nothing. Telling her that her dad is dead doesn't answer any questions for her - she wasn't asking if he was alive, she was asking where he is.
I'm surprised the Doctor never tried to get Ruby to go back to the TARDIS, maybe trick her into activating the Fast Return which he has doubtless set to take her back home if something irrevocable happens to him. If half the planet was going to blow up, the TARDIS would be the *only* safe place.
Good point actually!
I think the honest answer is that a) He didn't expect her to suddenly be shot by a newcomer to the scene, B) He needed her help to avoid blowing up half a planet with all the associated casualties.
@@simonkapadia7582 I'd like to think there's at least some measure of C) the Doctor has learned to accept and respect his companions' decisions when it comes to their safety. But everything he said before she handed him the remains would indicate otherwise.
My reading of the doctor’s comments about faith was that he is very opposed to organized religion and how it can be used to justify war. Conversely, he is pro individual faith: what people need to be able to carry on. The Doctor needs to believe those he’s lost are not gone, which he agrees with Splice at the end of the
The kind of faith you are instructed to believe vs the kind of faith you personally need to believe
I thought the 10 year old, was just scared of admitting to herself was a death happened. She isn't ready to deal with so she tells her the angel story over and over again, especially as she lives on a battlefield, it gives her hope. Only watched it once, before watching your review.
The whole time they were building up Vater's character in the beginning I was constantly thinking "please don't just be a cruel death character" and was very disappointed when he died. But the elation I felt as he became more and more important to the plot and saving the day was hugely satisfying.
For me, this is the best episode since Heaven Sent. I was completely captivated the whole way through.
Loved having Moffat back, it brought something to the series that I've felt was missing up until this point. Also, shouldn't there have been more mines on that minefield? It was a real Dawn Summers situation with the kid, meant to be younger but was played by an older actress
Re: more mines. I would thinknif the devices are being planted by their own tech to jeep calculations Precise, it's killing their people in calculated numbers. So they need to keep mines to a precise number, or they'd blow their own customers up too much.
The one we saw was invisible while inactive, so maybe there were more and everyone just got lucky not to step on them.
Yeah that's true but nobody was worried about stepping on another landmine? I think there was only one small moment when the doctor said to Ruby that she should pay attention to the ground but I expected more worries in this scenario. But maybe this is just me easily panicking, especially with kids on the battlefield with invisible deadly landmines.
The thing with Moffat is that I think he does better when there's at least someone above him telling him no.
I think both Moffat & RTD need that sometimes
Also, when his stories are contained to a single episode or a two-parter. One of my problems with his seasons as showrunner was that he kept building and building and building and then the resolution in the end of the season would be very fast and right at the very end. I think he can keep a better pacing with an episode or two worth of time.
This argument doesn't hold any water for me.
Heaven Sent?
WEAT/TDF?
The Eleventh Hour?
The Day of the Doctor?
RTD has stated he doesn't edit or change Moffat’s scripts and Moffat executively produced Boom
It may just be the case that writing one script per year is easier than writing many episodes with story arcs AND simultaneously running two different shows
That's true of most (read: all, literally 100%) writers. That's why you often see a decline in the quality of writers over time: the more successful they get, the less likely editors are to criticize, and the less likely they are to receive criticism well -- which is a problem because the whole revision stage is absolutely *crucial* to writing a great story.
Faith is what people use when they don't have good evidence to believe something, some people will use critical thinking in everything, except their faith.
Faith is not a reliable path to truth and so really isn't useful.
I did thought of the needless cruelty when the blind soldier was killed in the intro, but very quickly the episode gave him a lot of attention. Especially with the doctor giving Ruby the order that he isn't in a situation that bad, that the person screaming had priorities.
Neither had much trouble with the faith rant. Very early the episode established that it was a religious war and seen how pissed the doctor was getting when he thouth Ruby was gone, he picked on the one thing he blamed the whole situation for his friend's end.
It was a corporation manipulating people, but faith was the thing it took advantage of and the whole army used as a justification for their actions.
As for the kid, I had a reading early that reminded me of the Eaters of light. Seen how the soldiers acted as teens and the kid as an even younger kid, thought it'll be that they had an even slower emotional maturity. That the two centuries of war had made them lack an inportant part of development that made them immature emotionally.
The faith thing I find really interesting. I read it more as an attack against dogmatic faith, especially in the context of organized churches (like highly structured things like the catholic church) or blind allegiance to a military cause. Ruby being confused about the church having/being an army and the Doctor replying that our time and church structure is just a blip further solidifies this reading to me. I do agree that the Doctor goes a bit too hard against faith, especially due to their general appreciation for all aspects of life and culture, but it didn't feel entirely out of line even with the back peddling later. Honestly though, it felt more like a 12 speech than anything else we've got out of Gatwa from his version of the Doctor.
I do agree that this is the best episode of the season, and joins Wild Blue Yonder in my list of actually spectacular NuNuWho episodes.
Having faith doesn't automatically make you stop thinking on your own, but it gives you an option to, and unfortunately many people choose that option...
I'd rate it a 9.5/10. Best episode of Doctor Who since Extremis.
Pros:
- Ncuti was INCREDIBLE. With the scripts RTD has given him so far he hasn't being given a lot of opportunity to do a lot of dramatic acting, so it was refreshing to see him get the opportunity to properly let loose.
- The speech critiquing people who use faith as an excuse to go to war was a piece of brilliance, easily the best Doctor speech since the one in the Zygon Inversion.
- The anti-capitalism commentary was also spot on, and maps to all the arms dealing going on in the real world.
- The ideas of ambulances vacuum sealing bodies into tubes and mines that make the people standing on them the explosives are exactly the kind of wacky sci-fi ideas I watch Doctor Who for.
- Moffatt somehow managed to pull off the resolution of a man's love for his daughter defeating an evil algorithm come across as triumphant, and not corny.
Cons (admittedly all nit-picks):
- I don't get how the man at the start of the episode managed to get himself blinded, considering how we later find out that the only threat in the episode was technology that instakills you.
- With all the religious wars going on around the middle east at the moment, Ncuti's comment about Ruby living in one of the few times in history without a religious war doesn't track.
- We didn't get much time to get to know Canto, so his death had very little impact on me (although I'm fully aware this may be readdressed if Mundy comes back as a companion and we get to know more about him, as was the case with River Song)
Classic Moffat, comes back, instantly kills the companion 😂
That was a great "loose intestines" moment 😂
"Just this once, Ruby, everybody dies!"
Ncuti was amazing here. I felt like the slower, more contained quality of this episode gave him room to perform and lean into his doctor. It felt like he and the story were able to breathe and create a nice rhythm.
I feel like I've been complaining for years about Doctor Who's tendency to have the Doctor (and/or Companion) running around for a big chunk of the episode, using physical drama as a kind of substitute for more interesting story drama. Making the Doctor stand motionless in the middle of a pit feels like a direct response to that sentiment -- so I loved it.
And Gatwa definitely delivered a crazy-good performance. Easily his best (so far).
@@Netherfly I don’t mind the running and the action in theory, but the last two episodes in particular it felt everything was going at 100% so you couldn’t get a sense of who Fifteen was when he wasn’t wisecracking and running around and dropping exposition. It was clunky. Not bad, because Gatwa is excellent anyways, but notably clunky imo.
Here, especially in the scene when Ruby is handing over the body canister thing, we get that energy from him, but it feels natural and less performative. I really enjoyed it and I think I’ll give it another watch today
For the faith issue, it seemed to me more that the Doctor was calling her out for being lawful-stupid-paladin at the time. Yeah, the Doctor definitely espouses a scientific worldview (not denying the supernatural, though, but attempting to study it and understand it) but in this specific case we had a character who *was* making stupid decisions out of faith.
For the kid having a different view of death, what stood out to me was her interacting with the hologram, in a way which suggested to me that people in this world often interact with holographic AI constructs of their dead loved ones. She’s probably got a holo of her mom back home that she talks to and so for her, her parents really aren’t gone. It’s sort of like if ghosts were perfectly normal things you see every day, and it’s expected that the ghosts of deceased loved ones will pop in from time to time for a chat. Grandma’s “dead”, yeah, but she still sits in her rocking chair and tells stories of when she was young, just like she did when she was alive.
And really, this sort of thing is soooooo very Moffatt. He’s used technological ghosts and afterlives quite a bit.
As a person who has come out of a faith…I dislike the walk back. I dunno.The kid’s inability to process death and what’s happening shows a true danger of ONLY relying on faith. But that’s just my interpretation and opinion. It makes the kids actions make sense.
Interesting. I thought it's OK to let the kid believe. But agree that he 'needs' it is bs when it comes to religious believe.
@@stephjovis3469 I feel that it was a cop out. Let his words stand, Faith CAN be an excuse. And in this case, their blind faith led them into a war with themselves.
@@TheTechOrc well the US invaded Iraq 22 years ago using lies and they're still there killing people who defend their country from an invader. So I guess you don't need faith in a God faith in a country telling you you have to die for idk what exactly is enough
@@stephjovis3469he wasn't saying he needs religion, he said he needs faith. There's an important distinction imo
That scene where Ruby was putting her foot down about handing the casket to the Doctor really reminded me of someone else and it took me about two hours to realise it was Clara. Ruby was just straight up Clara-ing in that scene. Not an issue really, just...Moffat seems to struggle to write a woman who's not basically Clara or River.
He definitely prefers his archetypes, but still let's not forget about his many other great female characters like Bill, Sally, Shona, Nancy, Vastra, and Ohila.
Ruby already displayed that she won't be cowed by the Doctor & that she is stubborn too. Look at her behaviour in Space Babies when she starts to smash the pipe against the walls to draw out the monster. This is very much Ruby's character.
I myself was glad the show had the guts to go as hard as it did against the faith of Mundy. It was a level of intense opposition that you don't see often, especially in American media so it was refreshing.
The girl watching the photographs while being oblivious of the surroundings felt off.
13:45 ish. "They're cousins! Identical cousins and you'll find... You'll lose your mind, when cooooousiiiins! Are two of a kind!"
It's actually been confirmed that Varada Sethu will be playing a different character next season. Per RTD: "That's the end of Mundy Flynn's story, so quite how Varada returns will be revealed next year." I'm a little disappointed since I thought we were finally getting a companion who's not from contemporary Britain, but holding out hope that this could still be the case with the new character.
I enjoyed the episode overall but it kind of felt like Moffat just put all of his well-received episodes in a blender.
They could have added one line to say kids age differently in this time of the future. The space babies were older than they looked, this kid can be younger. It would just take one line and wouldn't feel so weird. Still enjoyed it, Gatwa is so talented.
The Doctor lashing out at faith makes me think of The God Complex. Maybe faith creeps the Doctor out because of guilt that they've abused it before, fear (knowing?) that they'll abuse it again, and the nagging suspicion that they might be abusing it right now.
I guess I really don't know the difference in how kids are supposed to act between different ages because I didn't see anything wrong with her age. Plus, I didn't interpret her lines such as not seeming to know what death is as her being young, just her being indoctrinated.
12:30 BTW it wasn't a green screen. in most of the "bad" CGI shots on the beginning, it was a huge LED screen displaying the background in real time. on later scenes inside of the pit set, it was a huge painting. I don't know why the background felt so disconnected, maybe it's just the crew getting used to filming on a volume. I think it was mostly a post-production thing, they maybe edited it too much, to the point of making it look fake. but the scenes did not, in fact, use green screen.
I think it's because they applied an obnoxious blur to the background in most shots while keeping the characters perfectly in focus. This created a disconnect between character and environment and might have been done to hide issues with the screen that they filmed.
@@wolfgang8181 do you know what depth of field is
@@amiiban Yep, and there is a time and a place for it. This was not well applied depth of field.
@@wolfgang8181 blame the camera not the led wall, there's no sign it was done in post
Let's just call this new season "New new who"
Keep that up and soon it'll be like "New New New New New New New New New New New New New New New York."
@@CouncilofGeeks I think that was the joke @Saandy_ was making.
I’m in favor of “new who number two”, especially said out loud.
New Who plus?
@@middlenerd178 "new who number two" electric boogaloo?
funny you mention the green screen in this episode, because there isn’t one aha. they actually used a big LED screen (sort of like the volume) but i know what you mean, it is noticeable, particularly at the end of the episode.
I read his attack on faith as an attack on the idea of having a holy war essentially or going to war for your faith, but still embracing the idea of believing in something just not causing harm with that some thing
On point 1: I felt like having the daughter be part of the story after Vater died, made it less "fodder"-like that he'd died. To me, they were definitely gonna reference him again and his death would play a role somehow, as a result of that.
On point 2: I had the opposite response. As the church and religion has literally become war, and church ranks are now military ranks, I found it extremely fair for the Doctor to be disdainful of it. I am, myself, also very disdainful of Christianity in particular (not necessarily faith, but Christianity specifically - and particular, blind faith or organised religion weaponised against others). So when he then did a turn around at the end, I was actually frustrated and confused. I recognise he was lashing out, but I also didn't understand the line - not liking faith, but needing it anyway. And I recognised in the moment that he was lashing out and very likely being a lot harsher than he usually would be, so I think even if I felt the same as you, it would not necessarily have hampered my viewing experience.
On point 3: I tried to write it off as religious indoctrination and being sheltered from realities by others (EVEN THOUGH SHE IS IN A LITERAL WARZONE), but I agree the role was written for a younger actor. Her not viewing death as something important, something mundane and just another thing was jarring for me. Like ???
actually, this episode is probably a televised first for doctor who! it uses neither a green screen nor the quarries, the set uses props and The Volume, which is like a moving digital background so the actors have a better immersion of the space they're in
From the behind the scenes bit I saw (not seen Unleashed yet) it wasn't the actual Volume but Bad Wolf Studios own version of it which would have another name (if it's named at all). Unless you know something specific against what I saw.
I will say that towards the end the background sky did start to feel a bit flat. But overall really well blended in.
@@Elwaves2925 They specifically call it The Volume in Doctor Who: Unleashed, and articles reporting on the series also call it The Volume
@@nathan2134 Okay and cheers for the info. I'm a bit behind with Unleashed so hadn't caught that bit and the clip I'd seen
didn't call it that.
I thought the Volume was solely the name for the Disney/Lucasfilm location they used for the Mandalorian. It seems it applies to the tech used, not the building.
Remember, Unleashed isn't legally available outside the UK. A lot of the world has no access to it.
To add context on the faith issue, the UK is largely agnostic and non religious so we tend to be more critical of organised religion.
Not to say no religious people are in the UK, loads are. But it is more widely challenged and vus so is the idea of faith. I understand this may be uncomfortable for other cultures but I do think it's good for anyone to be challenged.
I think on last national statistics it was something like, 60% of people identify as agnostic or no alining with any religion, 15% identity as spiritual or believing in a higher power but not any organised religion and 25% identity with an actual religion. However the studies I have looked at about this could be better and I suppose it's a hard thing to gather data on
Re faith: I will always love and remember the quote from Delenn in Babylon 5: "Faith and reason are like shoes; you can walk much farther with both than just one."
As I've grown up, I've learned that faith doesn't just mean religion or faith in a higher power, but can also be faith in core principles where it isn't possible to reason out a solution. In particular, an approach of pure reason will frequently run into the problem that the future is deeply unpredictable, you can't even reliably predict odds. Thus, to make any decision you need some faith. Anyone who claims otherwise isn't being entirely honest.
I'm happy to see you write that in your second paragraph. I'm not religious in any way, never have been, highly likely I never will be but I consider myself to have faith. Faith goes way beyond and exists outside of any religious or so-called 'higher powers'. The various religions like to lay claim and ownership of faith but that's their usual rubbish they always do.
This episode was all I ever wanted for this season. I've just not emotionally connected with the show much since Capaldi left, so it was so nice to feel that love again for the show (and the Doctor -- Ncuti really clicked into place as the Doctor for me here). 😍
I feel completely the opposite about the fact that the not-just-fodder soldier is a dad, even on my single viewing. When covering the damages of war in a story line, it isn't needless cruelty to be reminded that harm is done to everu family member left behind. It's a critical part of the message. I understand what you're saying for random alien story with the first harm we see, but fully humanizing the victims of war - ALL of the victims - is a valid choice. It should hurt.
Moffat’s an atheist. Like everyone else, he’s free to criticize faith. While I was growing up, many religious people used the media to proselytize their brand of religion without being challenged. Now there is push back and I’m glad. When I was young I never knew non-belief was an option. I don’t think religious people are stupid. I used to be one and I know I didn’t gain any I.Q. points when I realized I no longer believed. I also didn’t lose my morals. Love your reviews.
I'm not sure when it began, but the first "identical cousins" thing I remember was _The Patty Duke Show,_ back in 1963, when I was a kid. Jeannie, in _I Dream of Jeannie,_ had a fraternal twin sister who sure looked and sounded like an identical twin; and Samantha, in _Bewitched,_ also had an identical cousin.
But that's all from American television. What British television was doing at the time I've no idea.
Most of the time we were watching the same in the UK. I loved Bewitched. Watched Doctor Who of course!
Karen gillan and her cousin caitlin blackwood are uncannily similar looking now but I get your point about identical twins 😊
I thought of Laura Palmer and her cousin Maddy (in fictional terms)...Actually, didn't Karen and Caitlin literally hadn't met for making the episode?
@@HandofOmega yes they only met on the set of doctor who I met caitlin and karen earlier this year it still amazes me how alike they look as caitlin has grown up she is looking more and more like karen
I have a cousin that looked very much like me when I was young but as we got older, we grew to look more like our own mothers. (We were related though our fathers). We also have a male cousin who looked an awful lot like one of my dad's cousins when they were both young and long-haired (one of them now is bald and the other has long hair, still.) Really trippy.
@@sallyatticum I once put on a long-haired wig, looked in a mirror...and was shocked to see my female cousin looking back at me!
I knew a girl in high school once who had two younger sisters, and all three of them were indistinguishable! Aside from the current age difference, which of course stayed the same gap between them but they all three were growing up, and my friend at age six had looked exactly like the middle sister at six, who looked exactly like their six-year-old sister did then. Their mom had to write the date and who was in each picture on the back, because even she couldn't tell them apart otherwise. And the eldest was looking more and more like her mother as she matured. It was enough to make me wonder about parthenogenesis, given that they had only recently documented it in complex larger animals like komodo dragons and sharks.
I agree with your point about the age of the child, i was bothered by her insistence on the hologram being literally her father. It doesnt make sense she wouldnt have seen the techology before that and at least get a brief explanation of what it is and how it works at the age she is :/
Or alternatively. she's a child in a war zone so has likely seen that technology a lot, is used to it and has been taught (in this case likely indoctrinated) to believe that her father isn't dead. To her it would be completely normal and she'd have no reason to question it.
The favorite part of the episode for me is that he didn’t just flash the sonic screwdriver at it & disarm it. Very much like the Second Doctor, he had to work his way through everything with nothing but his knowledge & wits, ie Heaven Sent.
And speaking of Heaven Sent, that is an episode I I didn’t get on the first viewing. I had to watch it about 3 times before everything made sense to me.
All in all, one of my favorite episodes in a very long time.
What I've realized starting on ep.4 was that, im really enjoying the way Ncuti Gatwa says Ruby's name. He's always super excited!
You're right, Vater dying wasn't needless cruelty...it was needles cruelty. 😋
I see the issues you raised and have thoughts:
1. Unnecessarily cruel: I disagree that showing him as a father was excessively cruel. Even if we didn't get more about the family dynamic, I have no problem with the story showing a soldier as a person with a life outside their job. War has ripple impacts outside those immediately on the battlefield. Not enjoying every moment is kinda key to the message of the story. It should hurt. You should feel awkward and discomfort watching a story like this.
2. "Faith": The doctor's speech annoyed me also, but my issue is ultimately with everyday English--that we use the same umbrella term for "blind faith" and a more critical rational faith. I understood the doctor's rant as geared primarily toward "blind faith" but that would sound clunky in this context. However, along the issue of faith, I don't love how they explained the reason for war narrative. If they were going to show the soldiers questioning what they've been told, we should've seen more overt thought stopping cliches. When these doubts aren't actively pushed away nor do they seem to change their behavior, and we don't get a sense that there's any opposition to the war, it makes the people of this world come off as dumb and 2-dimensional. So I guess Moffat still struggles to write characters that aren't like him/how he sees himself.
3. Kid: I agree she looked too old for the role, but not for her conceptualization of death. Coming from the Bible Belt and knowing military and farm families, that's not too far off; it's a coping mechanism. Her character raised questions that weren't really answered: (1) What did she mean by "gathered her up"? Was that literal or euphemism? Seeing how the soldiers died, that line made me think of for-profit healthcare systems. I would have liked a little more information about what wider culture these soldiers believed they were going to war to protect. So either change that line or show me a quick scene or montage, maybe with the memories slideshow, that tells me about their world outside of the battlefield. (2) Why was she there? The line about getting special approval didn't cut it for me. That just felt like lazy writing. Maybe in this world, people of a certain class fight the wars; the families follow the soldiers and live on base. Show a few other children and caregivers in the background. That was just a quick off the cuff alternative I thought of while typing this, but it fixes her character except for the actor looking too old to be so impulsive; we don't need a dead mother or the kid's line about the meaning of death. It would also add to the anti-capitalism/war-profiteering message. This is what I hate about Moffat's writing! It's so easy to flesh out/fix these characters, but it requires seeing diverse people as dynamic and complex.
Is his name Vater, the German word for Father, or do I not remember it right?
It's "Vater," yeah.
yes
Verada Sethu's character was great. Having 'presence' is a good word for her, I'm really looking forward to seeing her again.
While I love the actors and their energy - I’m having trouble with the speed of the intimacy of their relationship. It just comes off as unearned and “love bomby”. Like if any new friend spoke like this to me I would expect that they spoke to everyone the same way and that our friendship was not actually genuine but just performative.
I dunno - it just feels like Moffat and company took a shortcut on building the foundation of this relationship in order to drive it as a finished vehicle which actually makes the characters feel vapid and superficial.
And I hate that because this friendship would be top tier if it had been actually built.
wrong. Their chemistry and connection makes sense. Their friendship has been built from day one.
I think it is okay for things to be justified later because it answers why something feels off and if it’s a good explanation it’s okay to be waiting for it. This all being said in the perspective of a first watch.
I wish Moffatt had added the word “blind” in front of “faith”. When faith descends into blind, no questioning, no thinking for yourself cult-like territory, that’s when it becomes destructive and dangerous. How many wars have been fought in the name of organized religion, how many have been burned at the stake, beheaded, tortured, because they dared to question. It is happening still. Faith is a source of comfort and peace for so many. But like anything else, it can be taken to extremes, with catastrophic results. That’s how I choose to read this episode. Especially with Splice’s unexpected view of her father’s death, which shows the Doctor a new perspective. Her faith is telling her that her dad’s soul is eternal, and she will see him again. She comforts the Doctor instead of the other way around.
Honestly, the addition of that one word would have helped a lot.
Faith is inherently a denial of observable reality. It’s not an incorrect statement, it just makes us uncomfortable. The Doctor is in a stressful situation that makes him lash out. He’s also not wrong. Capitalism with ‘checks and balances” is healthier than without, but it’s still a system prioritizing outcomes that makes removing checks and balances incentivized.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox Faith isnt really denial, it is if you let it override like your sense of self, but i think most religious people can seperate that . Or i hope they do.
Faith just neve rshould be a persons entire personality. Thats going culty. Or stop critical thinking
No, I think you got it right the first time: the child actress was too old for the role. For the Faith position to be a different world view from the future, it should have been explained by one of the adult characters, not the child. As written, played by a younger actor, the faith expressed being admired by the Doctor still works, if expressed by a child. Showing up his jaded nature after living for thousands of years compare to the innocence of a child.. This is not saying that her dad didn't go to heaven, but people of faith still grieve when their loved ones die. They don't just say: "oh well, I'll see them later as if they have just walked out of the room.
I like that sometimes art making you uncomfortable and then soothing your concerns is a really thrilling experience.the second time with edges worn off is more pleasant and enjoyable as an experience, but is it as fulfilling? The hurt makes it work for me.
I felt the resolution of the episode felt kind of cheap and some of the direction and editing was really distracting to me.
It depresses me that folk think Moffat's best work is in the RTD-era. Because his work for Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi is far, far, more interesting. He's, frankly, modern Who's best writer, and for me he is also the best showrunner of the three too.
Here's a potentially helpful alternative way to frame the better-on-a-second-watch issue with regards to the daughter's behavior surrounding death. We find out at the end that she actually does understand that her father has died, but she has this different and interesting perspective on it (we still don't really know if it's her character's perspective or the prevailing cultural perspective; either way is interesting). BUT, if we had found that out at the beginning, then we would get to see two conflicting perspectives on death play out over the course of the episode as people are dying and characters react to those deaths. Imagine the character moment that might have been if Ruby had been hit much harder by Vater's death than his own daughter was, because Ruby is really thinking about the absence of her own parents.
The interesting thing about seeing the different cultural perspectives of different time periods, places, or alien races is to see a story in which contrasting viewpoints each get their arguments across. But Splice's viewpoint here is hidden for the sake of a (frankly not that impactful) surprise, at the expense of the audience engaging with the viewpoint clash for the duration of the episode.
Also, can we talk about the "Dad" thing? I'm really loving that we're (finally) gonna be exploring that aspect of the Doctor's character (or so it seems). I'm not super enamored with the fan-theory that Ruby, herself, is Susan... but I would like to see more of that parental dynamic explored. And Ncuti Gatwa definitely seems more than up to the task of being a Dad-Doctor.
Huh, hadn't heart that fan theory, how does it go?
@@HandofOmega Pretty much what it says on the tin. That scene in 'Boom' where the robot scans Ruby, and gives her age at 3000+ years, and then can't locate any next of kin? The theory says that number isn't based on some historical database, but her actual physical age. So she's a Time Lord, abandoned as a baby, much like the War Master in 'Utopia.' And Time Lord shenanigans surrounding that would be at the root of all the weirdness around the day she was abandoned.
It may also be pertinent (but maybe not, considering how little Doctor Who pays attention to its own continuity) that the Anglican Marines, as seen in Boom, were previously stated to be from the 51st century, in which case Ruby -- being from the 21st century -- would be far, far older if they were judging her based on historical records. We're talking more like 30,000 years than 3,000.
Not sure I really buy it. Seems a bit on-the-nose for a season where one of the big clues/red herrings is a mysterious recurring character/face played by an actress named "Susan Twist."
But also... I wouldn't exactly put it past RTD, either. He's never exactly shied away from hiding things in plain sight in the past.
Regarding your question about whether something being better on a second watch makes the issues you had on first watch redundant; I'd be interested to know if you've watched the seventh Doctor story Ghost Light yet and if so, what did you think of it on first watch? That's a story a lot of people agree is baffling on first watch, but that you need to watch it multiple times in order to get your head around it and see how great it is.
Really? That banged first (and so far only) time through. Huh.
@@ChristyAbbey I really enjoyed it the first time too, but I still had no idea what was going on.😂
@@Mrazmatmahmood That might be because it was rewritten into its current form, from originally taking place in the Doctor's ancestral home on Gallifrey! (you can see the original vision in the novel Lungbarrow)
@@HandofOmega Oh yeah, it's obvious Ghost Light went through a lot of rewrites and tight editing to end up in the three episode format it was broadcast in. The special edition version on the S26 blu ray is great and allows the story time to breathe.
loved it - the script was a Banger Ncuti's performance was explosive and I found it really fascinating how it handled what Ruby and the Doctor would do in a hopeless situation without any chance of surviving and how the Doctor was furious at the humans for letting their religious fanaticism made them being tricked into going to war against a non-existing foe for the sake of money
The child revealing that she knows what death is works for me as we're in the same position as the Doctor to that point. We don't look down on his reaction as we're sharing it.
hard agree on all the points you said. I really think that despite the interesting point at the end and the father feel good, that this episode would have been better without the kid.
just have the Anglican be someone with the proper authority, then have her call it off after her friend dies. that would also be super powerful.
13:58 They already confirmed when the episode aired that Varada Sethu is not playing Mundy again, when she becames the companion it will be a different character
That's a bit disappointing. I think there was an interesting dynamic here. Though maybe they didn't want another grieving companion after Graham (and Clara).
@@abbeywho5730 I'm glad it's not the same character cause I found her annoying
She seemed like some kind of sci-fi paladin and that’s a cool companion concept!
They didn’t use blue screen on this episode, they used the Stagecraft led screen system that was used on The Mandalorian.
Not the same, but as a classical music buff, I kind of expect not to 'get' certain pieces (i.e., long romantic and post-romantic symphonies, certain pieces written in more modernist idioms) the first time. All I ask for, on first hearing, is for the composer to give me the incentive to listen again. And I have a similar feeling towards certain works of *literary* fiction, where re-reading is kind of expected (and where you can go back even during the first reading). But I agree that different criteria apply for a TV episode. It's one thing for subsequent viewing to enrich your experience, give you more than you picked up on initially; but it's different if what felt like a major problem is only fixed at the end. It's not a deal-breaker for me, especially in the age of streaming where the option for re-viewing can almost be taken for granted; but it is a minus
32:00 I don't know, I feel like there's a diffrence between being expected to do homework to watch a show, and needing to finish an episode. Obviously, how it made you feel the first time you watched it is important context when giving a review, but I don't think it's fair to call them mistakes when all the information you need is contained in something you can watch in one sitting.
The Doctor's view of faith makes perfect sense. He's a person who thinks his way out of a situation-a troubleshooter, essentially (and if you get that joke, ten thousand bonus points). He would certainly be uncomfortable with relying on faith for anything.
It's really clear to me that these first 3 episodes would have benefited from maybe another 5 or 10 script revisions. Especially Boom. It was nearly structurally perfect. I wonder what was stopping them from waiting just another week or so for a better script
26:03 personally I didn’t think the doctor ever meant faith as a whole was bad but that faith that causes you to do bad stuff is bad
I can absolutely see the elements of Rose and Clara present in Ruby, but I'm not picking up any specific Amy Pond influences. Anyone care to elaborate?
I personally think faith is an intersting angel to tackle. As sombody he has studied philosophy ethics and Christianity it is possible and important to discuss faith in both possitive and negative lights. Its a fact of life, it should be talked about.
Moffat writing a Capaldi episode starring Ncuti.
In the Doctor Who Unleashed behind the scenes episode for Boom, they show that there isn't much green screen at all (if any) in this episode. They're actually using those LED screens that Disney uses for their Star Wars shows, including the entire sky and the TARDIS interior being visible from the exterior. Your issue with the visuals isn't cheap green screen at all, you're actually taking issue with very expensive LED panels.
12:30 this episode was not filmed on green screen, it was filmed against an LED screen (like the ‘Volume’ used to film the Mandolorian) this is mentioned in Doctor Who Unleashed
the doctor who youtube channel released a behind the scenes vidio featuring 'mundy' and the actor said somthing about being excited to further explore the character so i assume she's going to come back as her.
Also to add to doctor who's dopleganger situation peter capaldi also played the roman dad in the fires of pompai
Maybe Caecillius was the Doctor's identical cousin!
He is also in Torchwood
@@MarkusAldawn Of course! (now wouldn't that make an interesting plotline- imagine if Chibnal had got his hands on that)
@@Robotsneakers so the doctor has 2 identical cousins! God add another and this will become a moffat worthy plot line full of timey wimy wibbly wobbly... stuff
@@WrenWilliams08 Sure...Before playing the 6th Doctor, Colin Baker played a Time Lord guard, so he could actually have been the Doc's cousin!
I really enjoyed the episode for the most part. There were points I didn't realize I was holding my breath until I exhaled in relief. I had to reflect on the comments about faith as I am a person of faith myself. I've never loved how Moffat's military are the Church, and there was a bit of a feeling in the script that faith is ok for kids (the daughter) but the adults (the soldiers) should know better. For me and many of the people of faith I know, faith is not blind or naïve, but something that is tested, stretched, and proved repeatedly throughout their life. After reflection, I can respect that this is a depiction of how bad things can be when religion is too enveloped in worldly things and principles, like war and financial profit.
"Designated favorite person" is pretty cute ngl
This episode had some good stuff in it, but ultimately it was like Moffat warming up - it needed to cook a little longer. I'm fully on board with this cast and with the returning leadership, but I'm still marginally concerned that they won't find their way back. I had an issue with the kid as well, but comments below reminding me that she's naïve/indoctrinated etc. makes sense.
I was slightly disappointed about the resolution of this episode, it keeps building in tension but then the overall situation is solved pretty quickly through convincing the AI to attack the system. It just seemed a bit rushed to me (which is a common criticism I have of Moffat’s writing tbh).
Hearing you enjoyed it more on the second watch does give me hope that I might be able to look past this more later on but right now it’s stopping me from loving this episode as much as other people seem to.
"Identical cousins are an oddly common thing in fiction... I don't know why."
I blame Patty Duke.
"So we're starting on real good footing" I see what you did there
It would be so nice to have a companion who isn't from modern-day earth again. I wish they would go a bit harder than human from the future but I'll take what I can get.
One issue I had with the episode was the doctor using his experience as a dad to empathize with vater’s ai specifically because, due to the nature of the show, we’ve never seen the doctor as a long term father in which he would have developed this understanding. It’s implied, of course, but never earned. I think it’s an issue to hint to new viewers that you could go back and see that era of the show when it literally doesn’t exist.
It is similar to the trauma of the time war at the beginning of the revival era and the doctor empathizing as the last of his kind except that we have since been able to see those events play out in a way that I don’t see how we could with the doctors fatherhood status.
I dont think its fair to ding an episode for a plot turn that then gets improved within the same episode. I can totally get behind the faith thing being an issue if the Doctor then didn't clarify his stance until a future episode - but the fact that he clarified his stance in the same episode means that the episode did what it needed to do in my opinion.
Even before setting aside my own negative bias against faith, I didn't think The Doctor was even being too harsh to begin with. As was already stated in this video, we're in the fictional realm of extremes. Extreme war profiteering AND extreme faith. Sure, not all people with faith throw logic out the window, but some people definitely do, and those people, their behaviors are worth admonishing. More importantly, in the context of this episode, I dont even see the criticism of blind faith as one that is pointed at religion, at least not primarily. I see the target being laid more squarely on the military. The military (my country's especially, writing as an American) relies upon blind faith just as much, if not more than religious institutions. Armies, governments, individuals do abhorrent things without question because yessir 🫡 devotion to some maligned cause. In Boom, the church functions as an extrapolation and exaggeration of the problems inherent to the military. Questioning your orders is questioning your very purpose in life. I was so glad Moffat came back to give us more about his most interesting world building from 11's run: The complete dissolution of seperation between church and state.
Admittedly, I think i can be a bit harsh on people with faith so I loved this episode digging into it, and even had the opposite reaction when the backpedaling happened, but don't actually mind it, after swallowing my bitterness. I dont think this episode was too harsh in the slightest.
I think there's a HUGE difference between what Boom does and what you describe with Hasbin Hotel. The former may noy explain things upfront, but it does reveal the necessary information before the episode ends, whereas the latter demands you consume supplementary media in order to get that necessary information. One is a complete story within itself, whilst the other is not, and I think it's a mistake to conflate those two very distinct ways of storytelling.