I got a pair of these recently after home-testing them against the KEF LS50w's. You're dead right about them drawing you in - the KEFs were fine but didn't feel emotionally involving, while the ELACs have that in spades. Unlike you I've long been a fan of the idea of active speakers due to the amp/driver optimizations that can be achieved, and I like the all-analog/upgradable path Jones has taken here. Agree with you on the placement - I haven't tried them quite as far out or as near field, but they definitely like space and will throw a huge soundstage. They don't go very deep (in my room) in that scenario though so I'll likely get a sub to supplement. Intrigued to hear more about the Denafrips!
@RB: not sure, at what price do you mean cables are snake oil? We always only look at cable price and we do not see behind the rig , what they are powering up. Obviously we will not use 20$ speaker cable with 20k setup like 500$ cables with 500 amps. Trust me with decent well stereo, every thing matters. Happy listening
i heard those speakers at RMAF - with Andrew Jones conducting the demo - and I was BLOWN AWAY. An INCREDIBLE SPEAKER - EVEN WHEN COMPARED TO THE BEHEMOTHS THAT WERE IN EVERY OTHER ROOM. Amazing - Mr. Jones is the best speaker designer in the hear and now - without a doubt.
One of the best things about the Navis is how well they scale. The better the signal you feed it the better they sound. So as you upgrade components like the DAC it's like you have new upgraded speakers. I also auditioned these against the LS50W at home for a couple weeks and Navis won to my ears. The midrange on the Navis is massive and holographic.
I'm a recording engineer. I was knocked out by these babies and immediately bought a pair for my edit station. I also contacted Andrew to ask that he advertise them to the pro-audio world as those individuals are the most likely to be attracted to an active monitor, most of which get a lot of use in recording applications. The difference for me was how well they performed, especially in the near-field top to bottom, clarity but without the fatigue I usually attributed to anything designed for the audio professional. My edits and mixes seemed to hold up really well on other systems after being mixed with the help of these speakers. I love them, and trust them completely. The mids are especially well presented, smooth and clear, and the bass was simply more than I expected from a speaker this compact. I disconnected the sub woofer I had been using with my previous monitors as it was just not necessary. The bottom frequencies were deep with just the right amount of note definition to tell me what's happening down there.
To answer The question of what DAC I'm using? It's a pro unit by Metric Halo, a brand unknown by most audiophiles, but very familiar and widely used in the professional arena ( Recording Sudios, Mix Rooms, Edit and Mastering Suites etc.). Since it's part of my edit station, the source is my MAC computer, and DAW software. Needless to say, I require an accurate representation of what I'm hearing during an edit session as critical decisions are being made. The Elac Navis ARB-51 completes that chain for me.
Steve I listen to many youtube reviewers but I take your view most seriously. I am an active speaker user for many years. Same reasons - to optimize the amp and eliminate speaker cables. After watching your review like 6 times I get what you are saying. And I agree. We will probably get better streamers and better dac in a short span of time, so better keep them out of the speakers for longevity. Based on your review, I went to get myself a pair of Navis 51. Should be arriving soon. I think you know what you are taking about. Keep up the good work.
The way you described what Navis did in a nearfield setup sounded exactly like my passive KEF LS50s powered by the tube amp: huge soundstage, warm sound, very involving
Listening to Steve is like drinking hot coco sitting by the fireplace on a snowy afternoon. I would never touch anything made by Andrew Jones. But a great review nevertheless. Thanks Steve.
At a presentation to audio clubs in the NYC area, Andrew Jones explained that he didn't use any DSP or DAC in the speakers because they have a tendency to become obsolete very quickly. He wanted his speakers to be usable for decades. You may be buying a new DAC, or an entirely new technology, every few years, but you can keep using the speakers.
vinyl1Earthlink you don’t have to use the DAC on the kef ls50w. You can use DAC of your choice and go into analog input on the KEF. Great flexibility on this speaker. Just listened to Mason Williams Classical Gas on these - one of the all time great compositions and performances.
@@stillastillsfan Everything gets digitzed in the KEFs. There's an ethernet cable connecting the two - the speaker has to convert an analog signal to digital in order to transfer to the other speaker. So if you're using an outboard DAC you're doing a D/A conversion and plugging it into the analog input, then the KEF is doing a second A/D conversion... Analog from a turntable also gets A/D'd.
DSP doesn't get out of date any more than transistors, capacitors transformers etc. do. Everything evolves, but it something is built well it won't suddenly stop performing well at some date.
I love these speakers and I don't even own a pair! But I do own the UniFi UB5s. They are being driven by 250 wpc. They are the best budget speakers I've ever owned. Sound is open, full, and lots of definition. Five stars in my book.
I ran output from a DAC into the analog input of my Vanatoo T0 active speakers. It didn't add anything to the sound. I realized that the signal was being digitized in order to facilitate the DSP. So I ran a digital signal directly into them. That being said, I was so impressed with their sound after I took the time to listen to them that purchased their big brother pair, T1E (Transparent One Encore).
The tower model is what I had at my meeting. Yes, it does play somewhat louder. But remember that the mid/tweeter is the same for both models. What you do get is somewhat deeper bass, and significantly higher levels at those deeper frequencies. Yes, it does make a difference, particularly in larger rooms. Mine is 15.5 feet by 33 feet with a large archway leading to my dining room, another large arch to the kitchen, and the stairs going up. That’s a LOT of room. Yet they played at my meeting with about 65 people, very clearly. As with all of Andrew’s designs, highly recommended.
After a year of usage, the speakers have changed significantly. High frequencies are now much brighter. I am using it with Denafrips Pontus II and anything recorded with slightly brighter treble sounds too forward for my taste. Next I will try Schiit Freya Plus to see if I can mellow them down.
I have a Klispch class AB subwoofer reference digital series the class AB is powered by classD hybrid amp Steve ! Looks great though Andrew Jones has made some nice passive speakers also Still can't get over his fs52 but your right Steve all analog is the way to go internal dac would be robbing power from one power source just like all these newer digtal integrated amps to me are more like a receiver any thing more than amp and preamp is a receiver you agree ? I mean powering a dac-Bluetooth-Wifi - preout for subwoofer that's a lot taking from one power sorce about to drop a review on the subject
bloody marvelous and honest review -I own several active speakers and being honest my main huge passive speakers are what i listen to 90% of the time they do sound just more musically real and not artificial . This Denafrips Terminator has me curious -perhaps the hype is real a wealthy audiophile friend who honestly has owned well over 100 dacs swears this is special and he is enjoying it more than his other ultra expensive dacs -so will be eagerly looking forward to the review cheers Steve
Audition an ATC SCM 40A one day, they are less "artificial" then any passive on the market that I am aware of. th-cam.com/video/SdAetX6_YRs/w-d-xo.html
The more you deny the present actuality and future potential of dsp, the more it points to.it being the technology that will change everything about audio. Youre like a car guy going on about the beauty of shrieking v12. Maybe so but that v12 is going to be left on the ash can of history in about a minute and a half. And for every reason. Same with dsp. Try out a dsp processor try out active dsp time aligned crossover and a dsp room correction system around now. All the audiophile truisms and dogmas are like that v12, anarchonisms. Start saying goodbye to all that. Records are great but combined with dsp they're even better.
Steve I really enjoy your reviews. Glad to see you are giving these powered speakers a chance. By the way you have the option of using an external DAC with the KEF LS50W. But you are correct the signal between the two speakers is digital. As I have said before it’s about the sound. I think you mostly agree with that although you take a higher more purist approach. Keep them coming buddy!!!
"Warmish side of neutral" - Steve is taking some review rhetoric queues from Zero Fidelity! Great choice because that comment helps me understand the sound of the speaker better than anything said in the review to that point.
"Super Res, High Res." These are terms I would apply to hyped speakers where the highs and mids are somehow exaggerated. That being said, I've been using these Elacs for close to a year+ now and find them very detailed. They also seem to tell me where my mixes are, and where I need to adjust things to be more generally translatable. As I've indicated before, They blew me away for the very reasons you mention. They are easy to listen too, but also give good information. They should not be put down because they are powered as the choice of amplifiers by Andrew Jones is a good one.., and I've heard a lot of powered monitors that I can agree with you on. NOT THESE. Just as an aside, the professional Focal monitors that I mix on, have the same breakdown of built-in Amps (Bash, Bash, AB) and they exhibit many of the same characteristics. Many who have visited my studio remark at how easy these Pro Monitors are to listen to. The ARB-51s are quite similar.
On KEF's it still converts the analog inputs to digital and then back to analog via the 4 dacs it has bcs the crossover is digital. You do get different sound from different external dacs but it is a result of twice the conversion back and forth. Not with the Elacs since crossover is analog.
A three way active speaker is a tri-amped, tri-wired speaker with an external crossover between pre-amp and power amp. Antipathy against them is idle. The same constructive principles are applied in active and passive speakers. The arrangement is crucial. The implementation of a dac isn't mandatory and also not specific for active speakers.
Would the addition of a top flight preamp, say primaluna Evo 300 as well as a high end r2r no's DAC be a substantial improvement? Effectively these are individually triple amped speakers but with the benefits of the crossover before the amps and the fact that the individual amps are tuned to the drivers, impressive stuff.
If the speakers are already warm you do not normally want a tube preamp. Better Holo May R2R NOS Dac and Holo Serene preamp, that would be some system.
if it was made in sealed cabinet i would like it so much more. that would solve the bass issue and probably some midrage things also. got to adjust the driver for sealed, not only the cabinet. just to be clear.
sudd why? Do you have some valid design reason? These have excellent bass. I’ve measured them here, and as with his others I’ve tested, the bass rolls off slowly-just as with a sealed system.
one reference:rmsacoustics.nl/papers/whitepaperbassreflex.pdf and that is just the bass, midrange is also affected, since you have more cabinet abortion in sealed. not to mention it's easier to build and design, so the speaker can be cheaper or use better parts. also the baffle can be made smaller since a sealed box is smaller. sealed also respond to eq better since there is no out of phase output from a port. you want me to continue?
Any thoughts about the sound quality differences between the Denafrips Ares and the Denafrips Terminator? Perhaps that would be useful to viewers in your upcoming Terminator review?
Steve, for a set of trained ears like yours, you will hear the same sound between bookshelves vs towers because you can separate out frequencies. But, for most people, the increased bass may contribute to a bigger sound stage, and they may generally hear a better sound through towers.
If you do the elac carina, please consider the floorstander. I think it may sound significantly different than the bs since it's a 2.5 way and has a much lower tuning frequency.
Steve - great review of another quality ELAC product. I might put these on my hit list for a new family room system. As a side question do you keep your Schiit Yggdrasil always powered on? I have read repeatedly that makes a sonic difference with that DAC. Thanks.
Steve are you a fan of power conditioners like, oh, say, the Furman pl-8c? What about speaker cable like Monoprice monolith speaker wire 12 gauge? I just pulled out all my cheap monster cable and replaced it with that stuff. I could be wrong but it seems the Monoprice monolith speaker wire made cleaned up a lot of the jumbledness in the mids and highs and even seems like it cleaned up some of the static bass bloat.
Steve, could you say a bit more on differences between Yggy and Terminator? What was the game changer here? Was it specific to this system or you find it universal?
Hey I loved your review. You appeared very knowledgeable yet passionate enough to keep me interested. You gave me a lot of clarity on how these speakers might sound in my listening environment, the type of doing they're going for and how best to utilize them. I was wondering as a current ELAC user, what would be your best DAC setup for ELAC speakers in the High, mid, and low price range? From unbelievably outstanding superb quality to pretty good starter setup.
Today I was moving my speakers arpund the room and found having them against the wall worked just as well as pulling them 3 or 4 feet out. The reason might be that the side walls do a 45 degree angle rather than 90. But I think the main reason is that they are front ported.
Hey Steve. When you review the Denafrips Terminator would you be able to make some comparisons to the Denafrips Ares? I'm in awe of what the Ares does right, especially when fed via a quality digital system, but I remain curious how much more detail the Terminator can bring to the party.
Not sure about the denafrips being better. Maybe try the yggy with the better cd transport before coming to that conclusion. Also, has your yggy been upgraded?
Wait a minute! Not long ago, you said tower speakers sound much bigger than bookshelf speakers! Which is it? There are many examples of the same speaker designs, one a bookshelf, and the other a tower with simply additional drivers/bass. If towers do give "bigger" sound, how do they compare to their bookshelf counterpart plus a subwoofer, like your favorite HSU Research (I don't recall the model)?
All active speakers are just a passing fancy at the mo. Just wait till they are out of warranty with limited / ever changing parts. Owners of pricey actives will either be very angry for buying paper weights or simply throw them away and buy new again, as crazy as that is. It's no biggie with stuff like Audio Engine as you almost expect it at some point for the pleasure of cheap and convenient. Like me, you will never be a fan. Nonetheless, thanks for this PSA (public service announcement). Your work is always appreciated.
Excellent review Steve as always me and my wife love you and we are very interested in hearing that denafrips Terminator because we know you love their entry-level Ares keep up the great work as always you Legend a big fan Steve Costello
Mine are due for delivery either tomorrow or Monday. Been waiting anxiously since I bought them last week. Hard to find out here...only a cpl stores in the entire country had them in stock. Mind you they are also almost double the US price. Then again the ls50w sell for over 3k. The price we pay for living on the other side of the continent!
Same issue on this side of the pond when we want to try brands like Magnepan (really wanted a pair of lrs to try...) After tax and shipping... theres just too many good stuff from Europe to justify the cost...
@@ohnonate oh wow...this is an old post. But, to answer your question, I've been super happy with them. I added a sub, but I'd not call it critical. Cheers 🎶🎶🎶
@@nostro1001 haha yeah an old post though i would reach out. Thanks for reply. If you dont mind me asking what do you have them connected to DAC Wise ?
Joe Davenport I agree on both points. Steve’s shirts are all really cool and I too won’t be buying any expensive powered (or passive) speaker either. 😂
Going back to how bi and tri-amplification made PA systems so much more intelligible, it seems to me that active speakers will always have the advantage that it makes more sense to split a signal before amplifying it, rather than throwing away chunks of it after it's been amplified. Maybe audiophiles (I'm not one) would be better served by active crossovers as a stand-alone component. They could then continue to mix and match amps and drivers, as seems to be so much of the fun of it. And they would need still more amps and drivers!
Actives have built-in amplifiers, often one per woofer/tweeter and are usually very powerful. They can also include dac (these do not) and use dsp (these don't I understand.) Benefits, usually a tailor made power amp to squeeze maximum performance per speaker. Less space used as amp is internal. No in built dac. Electronics change frequently. Downsides,this model needs a separate dac so it's not a one box solution. If the amplifier dies, I don't think get can be used passively. (Warranty is usually 2 years). You can't mix and match components (more true for actives with dacs)
Regarding analog purism and "compromises," Steve must listen to the active/DSP Dutch & Dutch 8c. It's a breakthrough in sound, measurements (as close as perfect as can be), and adaptation to almost any room. A not too big standmount that plays down to 20Hz flat!
you don't understand, he just told in you the video about and example with turntable, no conversions, cant beat that. and i dont need " " " or ! ! to make my point.
@@ianjohnhorwood2605 Ian, I have been an audiophile for many, many years and I also had my purist phase. But the proof is in the pudding and DSP has come a long way. This particular speaker is very special and there are several reviews out already. By the way, the very good Wilson Duette 2 has an 8-inch midrange/woofer.
Steve, you're an intelligent guy. It's Igg-dra-sill, not Yagg-dra-sal. Just go down to the library and check out a book on Norse Mythology sometime. It really is some interesting stuff! : )
The Shit amplifier should be prounced "Sheet". Double vowel denotes elongation. Schiit is obviously not English so those conventions do not apply. Letters mean something in most languages except English, where letter-combinations dominate, as do pre-defined "rules". Anglophones, you can't just go fucking up every language you get your eyes on. 😊
There comes a point where it is uniquely based on personal taste and needs like with everything else: I’m not stating anything we don’t already know. But for me, once you’re spending over $2000 for a speaker you’re better off getting a ‘good little amp’ and a solid pair of passive speakers. So many more choices and lots more versatility and flexibility. I own 2 pairs of active speakers. However I spend less than $300 for each of them. The Kanto pair that’s with my HiFi will eventually be replaced by a respectable $480 Cambridge amp with $350 Monitor Bronze 50 bookshelf. Way better IMO.
Nice speakers, it's a pitty there is no volume control (I have DAC with digital volume control, but I would prefer set some max level to be safe that it will not too loud by accident and to minimise digital control to avoid lowering signal quality). And how are Navises at low volume listening (quiet passages in classical music, night listening) ? Are better than passive hifi or not ?
@@johnfoster2592 sorry, but it's easy but bad advice ... adding preamp into chain is bad solution - expensive and another device influencing sound quaility. Than this it is better to use digital domain regulation ..
@bh69videa I agree. Generally, you need to have a great pre amp. The output gain must be enough to properly drive the amps, or you will lose dynamics. I guess it's through trial and error. I have maxed my active Navis a few times, and it is scary. Which DAC do you use? I'm researching an upgrade from my Node. Any ideas? Thanks in advance for your input.
I'd like to see you reviewing the klipsch Sixes bookshelf speakers. I'm not really into powered speakers but the Sixes look really good. I wish klipsch would make them passive.
Yes it's not DSP but it's ASP. Why do you always talk about D A converters what's it like with records? that only interest me! can you do a comparison in the future with vinyl not just D A's. But both thanks Steve
Won’t ever touch an active speaker. Just an overpriced computer speaker without the sub module. I’ve had Klipsch THX computer speakers and a variety of other fairly high-end computer speakers... all failed over 2-3 years. However for $200-350 computer speakers, I was ok with them dying. But for $2K... too much liability.
As a rule of thumb armchair critics should keep quiet. If you own a pair of these or have had an extended audition you may have something to contribute. Otherwise, you just waste folks time with piffle.
Why even bother with having a self powered bookshelf with analogue inputs? Seems like a waste over a traditional speaker that needs a dedicated amp, no way these can compete with passive book shelfs!
Dude, clean your place. Two, actives are the way to go and finally coming into their own and no amount of old school audio purism is gonna change that. Enjoy!
Yeah, you pretty much need at least a 6.5" driver in a fairly spacious ported box for palpable bass with decent efficiency -- and even then, you'll probably want a decent 8"-10" subwoofer to get that lowest 2/3 of an octave or so sounding big and solid.
![เปิดบ้าน นาราเครปกระเทย 1 ไร่ ขายขาดทุนหลัก10ล้าน เอามาใช้หนี้!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jz84VFWVP4/mqdefault.jpg)
I got a pair of these recently after home-testing them against the KEF LS50w's. You're dead right about them drawing you in - the KEFs were fine but didn't feel emotionally involving, while the ELACs have that in spades. Unlike you I've long been a fan of the idea of active speakers due to the amp/driver optimizations that can be achieved, and I like the all-analog/upgradable path Jones has taken here. Agree with you on the placement - I haven't tried them quite as far out or as near field, but they definitely like space and will throw a huge soundstage. They don't go very deep (in my room) in that scenario though so I'll likely get a sub to supplement. Intrigued to hear more about the Denafrips!
One other thing - the EQ switches on the back make *very* subtle changes, they aren't substitutes for true tone controls.
And, active speakers eliminate one major source of audio snake oil, the speaker cables.
@@rb032682 true that.
@RB: not sure, at what price do you mean cables are snake oil? We always only look at cable price and we do not see behind the rig , what they are powering up. Obviously we will not use 20$ speaker cable with 20k setup like 500$ cables with 500 amps. Trust me with decent well stereo, every thing matters. Happy listening
On the other hand, I do agree there are so many snake oil cable companies.
i heard those speakers at RMAF - with Andrew Jones conducting the demo - and I was BLOWN AWAY. An INCREDIBLE SPEAKER - EVEN WHEN COMPARED TO THE BEHEMOTHS THAT WERE IN EVERY OTHER ROOM. Amazing - Mr. Jones is the best speaker designer in the hear and now - without a doubt.
They are absolutely stunning looking speakers, even without hearing them, they make me smile.
I think Steve should start a Shirt Channel to discuss all the cool shirts we see prominently in his regular audiophiliac appearances 😉👍🏻
I like them too
I also like them!
Yep shirts is a yes from me.
Right?pretty cool shirts for sure.
So True !
One of the best things about the Navis is how well they scale. The better the signal you feed it the better they sound. So as you upgrade components like the DAC it's like you have new upgraded speakers.
I also auditioned these against the LS50W at home for a couple weeks and Navis won to my ears. The midrange on the Navis is massive and holographic.
I'm a recording engineer. I was knocked out by these babies and immediately bought a pair for my edit station. I also contacted Andrew to ask that he advertise them to the pro-audio world as those individuals are the most likely to be attracted to an active monitor, most of which get a lot of use in recording applications. The difference for me was how well they performed, especially in the near-field top to bottom, clarity but without the fatigue I usually attributed to anything designed for the audio professional. My edits and mixes seemed to hold up really well on other systems after being mixed with the help of these speakers. I love them, and trust them completely. The mids are especially well presented, smooth and clear, and the bass was simply more than I expected from a speaker this compact. I disconnected the sub woofer I had been using with my previous monitors as it was just not necessary. The bottom frequencies were deep with just the right amount of note definition to tell me what's happening down there.
@Ben Taylor Just wondering what DAC you have this connected to? sound like a neat system you have.
To answer The question of what DAC I'm using? It's a pro unit by Metric Halo, a brand unknown by most audiophiles, but very familiar and widely used in the professional arena ( Recording Sudios, Mix Rooms, Edit and Mastering Suites etc.). Since it's part of my edit station, the source is my MAC computer, and DAW software. Needless to say, I require an accurate representation of what I'm hearing during an edit session as critical decisions are being made. The Elac Navis ARB-51 completes that chain for me.
@@bentaylor3984 sounds amazing thanks for a lot the feedback!
Steve I listen to many youtube reviewers but I take your view most seriously. I am an active speaker user for many years. Same reasons - to optimize the amp and eliminate speaker cables. After watching your review like 6 times I get what you are saying. And I agree. We will probably get better streamers and better dac in a short span of time, so better keep them out of the speakers for longevity. Based on your review, I went to get myself a pair of Navis 51. Should be arriving soon. I think you know what you are taking about. Keep up the good work.
The way you described what Navis did in a nearfield setup sounded exactly like my passive KEF LS50s powered by the tube amp: huge soundstage, warm sound, very involving
All roads lead to CAN.
Happy to hear Steve listens to CAN, brownie points earned.
CAN road leads to meth lol
Soon over Babaluma........
Listening to Steve is like drinking hot coco sitting by the fireplace on a snowy afternoon. I would never touch anything made by Andrew Jones. But a great review nevertheless. Thanks Steve.
Sabit Ahmed why?
At a presentation to audio clubs in the NYC area, Andrew Jones explained that he didn't use any DSP or DAC in the speakers because they have a tendency to become obsolete very quickly. He wanted his speakers to be usable for decades. You may be buying a new DAC, or an entirely new technology, every few years, but you can keep using the speakers.
vinyl1Earthlink you don’t have to use the DAC on the kef ls50w. You can use DAC of your choice and go into analog input on the KEF. Great flexibility on this speaker. Just listened to Mason Williams Classical Gas on these - one of the all time great compositions and performances.
@@stillastillsfan Everything gets digitzed in the KEFs. There's an ethernet cable connecting the two - the speaker has to convert an analog signal to digital in order to transfer to the other speaker. So if you're using an outboard DAC you're doing a D/A conversion and plugging it into the analog input, then the KEF is doing a second A/D conversion... Analog from a turntable also gets A/D'd.
@@stillastillsfan "you don’t have to use the DAC on the kef ls50w"
No, you do, there's no pure analog path on these.
DSP doesn't get out of date any more than transistors, capacitors transformers etc. do. Everything evolves, but it something is built well it won't suddenly stop performing well at some date.
Coaxial mid/tweeter is a great way to go, especially near field.
I love these speakers and I don't even own a pair! But I do own the UniFi UB5s. They are being driven by 250 wpc. They are the best budget speakers I've ever owned. Sound is open, full, and lots of definition. Five stars in my book.
I ran output from a DAC into the analog input of my Vanatoo T0 active speakers. It didn't add anything to the sound. I realized that the signal was being digitized in order to facilitate the DSP. So I ran a digital signal directly into them. That being said, I was so impressed with their sound after I took the time to listen to them that purchased their big brother pair, T1E (Transparent One Encore).
The tower model is what I had at my meeting. Yes, it does play somewhat louder. But remember that the mid/tweeter is the same for both models. What you do get is somewhat deeper bass, and significantly higher levels at those deeper frequencies. Yes, it does make a difference, particularly in larger rooms. Mine is 15.5 feet by 33 feet with a large archway leading to my dining room, another large arch to the kitchen, and the stairs going up. That’s a LOT of room. Yet they played at my meeting with about 65 people, very clearly.
As with all of Andrew’s designs, highly recommended.
Mel Gross thanks Mel!
After a year of usage, the speakers have changed significantly. High frequencies are now much brighter. I am using it with Denafrips Pontus II and anything recorded with slightly brighter treble sounds too forward for my taste. Next I will try Schiit Freya Plus to see if I can mellow them down.
I have a Klispch class AB subwoofer reference digital series the class AB is powered by classD hybrid amp Steve ! Looks great though Andrew Jones has made some nice passive speakers also Still can't get over his fs52 but your right Steve all analog is the way to go internal dac would be robbing power from one power source just like all these newer digtal integrated amps to me are more like a receiver any thing more than amp and preamp is a receiver you agree ? I mean powering a dac-Bluetooth-Wifi - preout for subwoofer that's a lot taking from one power sorce about to drop a review on the subject
bloody marvelous and honest review -I own several active speakers and being honest my main huge passive speakers are what i listen to 90% of the time they do sound just more musically real and not artificial . This Denafrips Terminator has me curious -perhaps the hype is real a wealthy audiophile friend who honestly has owned well over 100 dacs swears this is special and he is enjoying it more than his other ultra expensive dacs -so will be eagerly looking forward to the review
cheers Steve
Audition an ATC SCM 40A one day, they are less "artificial" then any passive on the market that I am aware of. th-cam.com/video/SdAetX6_YRs/w-d-xo.html
The more you deny the present actuality and future potential of dsp, the more it points to.it being the technology that will change everything about audio. Youre like a car guy going on about the beauty of shrieking v12. Maybe so but that v12 is going to be left on the ash can of history in about a minute and a half. And for every reason. Same with dsp. Try out a dsp processor try out active dsp time aligned crossover and a dsp room correction system around now. All the audiophile truisms and dogmas are like that v12, anarchonisms. Start saying goodbye to all that. Records are great but combined with dsp they're even better.
Agreed. I live and die by DSP and full active systems with room correction
Steve I really enjoy your reviews. Glad to see you are giving these powered speakers a chance. By the way you have the option of using an external DAC with the KEF LS50W. But you are correct the signal between the two speakers is digital. As I have said before it’s about the sound. I think you mostly agree with that although you take a higher more purist approach. Keep them coming buddy!!!
"Warmish side of neutral" - Steve is taking some review rhetoric queues from Zero Fidelity! Great choice because that comment helps me understand the sound of the speaker better than anything said in the review to that point.
They DO have a DAC, just not for the analog input. It's for the wireless input.
Love these Speakers. Best hifi purchase i have ever made.
"Super Res, High Res." These are terms I would apply to hyped speakers where the highs and mids are somehow exaggerated. That being said, I've been using these Elacs for close to a year+ now and find them very detailed. They also seem to tell me where my mixes are, and where I need to adjust things to be more generally translatable. As I've indicated before, They blew me away for the very reasons you mention. They are easy to listen too, but also give good information. They should not be put down because they are powered as the choice of amplifiers by Andrew Jones is a good one.., and I've heard a lot of powered monitors that I can agree with you on. NOT THESE. Just as an aside, the professional Focal monitors that I mix on, have the same breakdown of built-in Amps (Bash, Bash, AB) and they exhibit many of the same characteristics. Many who have visited my studio remark at how easy these Pro Monitors are to listen to. The ARB-51s are quite similar.
Steve, you can use analog inputs on the ls50w. You don’t have to use the internal DAC.
On KEF's it still converts the analog inputs to digital and then back to analog via the 4 dacs it has bcs the crossover is digital. You do get different sound from different external dacs but it is a result of twice the conversion back and forth. Not with the Elacs since crossover is analog.
The original audiophile active speakers; The Paradigm Active 20s were awesome. They existed before the class D era.
And Meridian way before that :)
Add ATC SCM100asl’s. Magnificent speakers I could live with forever.
A three way active speaker is a tri-amped, tri-wired speaker with an external crossover between pre-amp and power amp. Antipathy against them is idle. The same constructive principles are applied in active and passive speakers. The arrangement is crucial. The implementation of a dac isn't mandatory and also not specific for active speakers.
My Klipsch R15-PM’s got me into HIFI and they’re great for my desk, but as I’ve moved on, I understand what you’re saying
Thanks for the rave review. The timing is a little weird as it comes after you have just recently interviewed Andrew Jones at your home.
Would the addition of a top flight preamp, say primaluna Evo 300 as well as a high end r2r no's DAC be a substantial improvement?
Effectively these are individually triple amped speakers but with the benefits of the crossover before the amps and the fact that the individual amps are tuned to the drivers, impressive stuff.
If the speakers are already warm you do not normally want a tube preamp. Better Holo May R2R NOS Dac and Holo Serene preamp, that would be some system.
Listened to Future Days by CAN after this for the first time. Loved it!
Hello sir, if i may ask. Did you experience any port chuffing with the arb51? I've read about it on few places.
Gayle Saunder Ikon speakers (sp?) are active and sound amazing...of course, so does their price.
if it was made in sealed cabinet i would like it so much more. that would solve the bass issue and probably some midrage things also. got to adjust the driver for sealed, not only the cabinet. just to be clear.
sudd why? Do you have some valid design reason? These have excellent bass. I’ve measured them here, and as with his others I’ve tested, the bass rolls off slowly-just as with a sealed system.
one reference:rmsacoustics.nl/papers/whitepaperbassreflex.pdf
and that is just the bass, midrange is also affected, since you have more cabinet abortion in sealed.
not to mention it's easier to build and design, so the speaker can be cheaper or use better parts.
also the baffle can be made smaller since a sealed box is smaller.
sealed also respond to eq better since there is no out of phase output from a port.
you want me to continue?
Any thoughts about the sound quality differences between the Denafrips Ares and the Denafrips Terminator? Perhaps that would be useful to viewers in your upcoming Terminator review?
Steve, for a set of trained ears like yours, you will hear the same sound between bookshelves vs towers because you can separate out frequencies. But, for most people, the increased bass may contribute to a bigger sound stage, and they may generally hear a better sound through towers.
Doesn't take trained ears to realize most towers are big heaps of resonant garbage.
@@rotorfix That's why No-Rez was invented by GR Research.
Which speaker stands are you using with the arb-51?
Eddie Kramer (Electric Ladyland) is a great recording engineer.
Nice review. Check out the DALI Callisto 2C with the Hub and Bluesound. Digital self amplified speakers. I think they sound great.
If you do the elac carina, please consider the floorstander. I think it may sound significantly different than the bs since it's a 2.5 way and has a much lower tuning frequency.
Don‘t they have DACs inside? With this elac hub thing you are able to speak to the speakers wirelessly so they have to have DACs.
juliangst Yes it does
What’s your favourite near field speaker Steve??
Ryan Chenoweth Harbeth P3ESR 40 Anniversary
Steve Guttenberg Audiophiliac nice 👌
Steve - great review of another quality ELAC product. I might put these on my hit list for a new family room system. As a side question do you keep your Schiit Yggdrasil always powered on? I have read repeatedly that makes a sonic difference with that DAC. Thanks.
Ken Heidenreich Yes it’s always powered up. I would do that with any dac
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Thanks - I will do that with my existing DAC as well.
Steve are you a fan of power conditioners like, oh, say, the Furman pl-8c? What about speaker cable like Monoprice monolith speaker wire 12 gauge? I just pulled out all my cheap monster cable and replaced it with that stuff. I could be wrong but it seems the Monoprice monolith speaker wire made cleaned up a lot of the jumbledness in the mids and highs and even seems like it cleaned up some of the static bass bloat.
Steve but how does it sound compare to the ones that don't have the beautiful cabinet?????🙂✌
Steve, could you say a bit more on differences between Yggy and Terminator? What was the game changer here? Was it specific to this system or you find it universal?
Hey I loved your review. You appeared very knowledgeable yet passionate enough to keep me interested. You gave me a lot of clarity on how these speakers might sound in my listening environment, the type of doing they're going for and how best to utilize them. I was wondering as a current ELAC user, what would be your best DAC setup for ELAC speakers in the High, mid, and low price range? From unbelievably outstanding superb quality to pretty good starter setup.
Hi Jonathan, i was wondering from you question above if you ended up getting a DAC for your Elacs? If so what type and how are you finding it? Cheers.
Today I was moving my speakers arpund the room and found having them against the wall worked just as well as pulling them 3 or 4 feet out. The reason might be that the side walls do a 45 degree angle rather than 90. But I think the main reason is that they are front ported.
Hey Steve.
When you review the Denafrips Terminator would you be able to make some comparisons to the Denafrips Ares?
I'm in awe of what the Ares does right, especially when fed via a quality digital system, but I remain curious how much more detail the Terminator can bring to the party.
Not sure about the denafrips being better. Maybe try the yggy with the better cd transport before coming to that conclusion. Also, has your yggy been upgraded?
Wait a minute! Not long ago, you said tower speakers sound much bigger than bookshelf speakers! Which is it? There are many examples of the same speaker designs, one a bookshelf, and the other a tower with simply additional drivers/bass. If towers do give "bigger" sound, how do they compare to their bookshelf counterpart plus a subwoofer, like your favorite HSU Research (I don't recall the model)?
ELAC Navis + Schiit Freya, can you try that?
Hey Steve, have you tried the Devialet 900? It would be a great comparison to the Navis.
All active speakers are just a passing fancy at the mo. Just wait till they are out of warranty with limited / ever changing parts. Owners of pricey actives will either be very angry for buying paper weights or simply throw them away and buy new again, as crazy as that is. It's no biggie with stuff like Audio Engine as you almost expect it at some point for the pleasure of cheap and convenient.
Like me, you will never be a fan. Nonetheless, thanks for this PSA (public service announcement). Your work is always appreciated.
Michael I’ve had my Genelec’s for over a decade, zero issues, build like tank.
Musical Paradise MP-D1 MK3 tube dac (change to better tube) + ELAC Navis, can you try that?
Excellent review Steve as always me and my wife love you and we are very interested in hearing that denafrips Terminator because we know you love their entry-level Ares keep up the great work as always you Legend a big fan Steve Costello
Steve Costello Thanks so much
Maybe the Swans will change your mind?
Imagine having a job where manufacturers are just shipping you all kinds of nice audio equipment everyday for free. Steve should be paying us haha
Mine are due for delivery either tomorrow or Monday. Been waiting anxiously since I bought them last week.
Hard to find out here...only a cpl stores in the entire country had them in stock.
Mind you they are also almost double the US price. Then again the ls50w sell for over 3k.
The price we pay for living on the other side of the continent!
Same issue on this side of the pond when we want to try brands like Magnepan (really wanted a pair of lrs to try...) After tax and shipping... theres just too many good stuff from Europe to justify the cost...
Nostro how are you finding the ELacs ?
@@ohnonate oh wow...this is an old post. But, to answer your question, I've been super happy with them. I added a sub, but I'd not call it critical.
Cheers 🎶🎶🎶
@@nostro1001 haha yeah an old post though i would reach out. Thanks for reply. If you dont mind me asking what do you have them connected to DAC Wise ?
@@ohnonate Np...RME ADI - 2
Great shirt. The speakers are interesting, still won’t buy a pair.
Joe Davenport I agree on both points. Steve’s shirts are all really cool and I too won’t be buying any expensive powered (or passive) speaker either. 😂
Steve, You should start a Channel for your cool shirts too!! 😉
I going to buy them. The future is active speakers.😁😁😁
Hey Mr. Guttenberg, can I have those ELACS after you've finished with them???
thanks,
music fan in ME.
Wondering why you rarely use your turntable as a source in these reviews?
Beside great DACs does anyone in the Audiophiliac community knows how good Denafrips pre amp and amp are?
Going back to how bi and tri-amplification made PA systems so much more intelligible, it seems to me that active speakers will always have the advantage that it makes more sense to split a signal before amplifying it, rather than throwing away chunks of it after it's been amplified. Maybe audiophiles (I'm not one) would be better served by active crossovers as a stand-alone component. They could then continue to mix and match amps and drivers, as seems to be so much of the fun of it. And they would need still more amps and drivers!
I might have missed it, but did you explain what an "active speaker" is?
Actives have built-in amplifiers, often one per woofer/tweeter and are usually very powerful. They can also include dac (these do not) and use dsp (these don't I understand.) Benefits, usually a tailor made power amp to squeeze maximum performance per speaker. Less space used as amp is internal. No in built dac. Electronics change frequently. Downsides,this model needs a separate dac so it's not a one box solution. If the amplifier dies, I don't think get can be used passively. (Warranty is usually 2 years). You can't mix and match components (more true for actives with dacs)
Regarding analog purism and "compromises," Steve must listen to the active/DSP Dutch & Dutch 8c. It's a breakthrough in sound, measurements (as close as perfect as can be), and adaptation to almost any room. A not too big standmount that plays down to 20Hz flat!
you don't understand, he just told in you the video about and example with turntable, no conversions, cant beat that. and i dont need " " " or ! ! to make my point.
Close to perfect no way, an 8 inch driver for midrange vocals is a no go start for seriously good vocal reproduction from a dynamic coned loudspeaker.
@@ianjohnhorwood2605 Ian, I have been an audiophile for many, many years and I also had my purist phase. But the proof is in the pudding and DSP has come a long way. This particular speaker is very special and there are several reviews out already. By the way, the very good Wilson Duette 2 has an 8-inch midrange/woofer.
It's resistance to change.
Steve, you're an intelligent guy.
It's Igg-dra-sill, not Yagg-dra-sal.
Just go down to the library and check out a book on Norse Mythology sometime. It really is some interesting stuff! : )
Wonder how long till Jones ends up at Klipsch?
That's how you found a good brand....they all sound the same. But as they get bigger, they just get louder and perhaps go a bit lower.
The Shit amplifier should be prounced "Sheet".
Double vowel denotes elongation. Schiit is obviously not English so those conventions do not apply.
Letters mean something in most languages except English, where letter-combinations dominate, as do pre-defined "rules".
Anglophones, you can't just go fucking up every language you get your eyes on. 😊
how do you pronounce you name ?
@@martyfraser9972 check the dick-shu-nary:-)
What can you get from Klipsch for $2000 per pair?
There comes a point where it is uniquely based on personal taste and needs like with everything else: I’m not stating anything we don’t already know. But for me, once you’re spending over $2000 for a speaker you’re better off getting a ‘good little amp’ and a solid pair of passive speakers. So many more choices and lots more versatility and flexibility. I own 2 pairs of active speakers. However I spend less than $300 for each of them. The Kanto pair that’s with my HiFi will eventually be replaced by a respectable $480 Cambridge amp with $350 Monitor Bronze 50 bookshelf. Way better IMO.
Nice speakers, it's a pitty there is no volume control (I have DAC with digital volume control, but I would prefer set some max level to be safe that it will not too loud by accident and to minimise digital control to avoid lowering signal quality). And how are Navises at low volume listening (quiet passages in classical music, night listening) ? Are better than passive hifi or not ?
Use a remote control with your preamp. Easy peasy.
@@johnfoster2592 sorry, but it's easy but bad advice ... adding preamp into chain is bad solution - expensive and another device influencing sound quaility. Than this it is better to use digital domain regulation ..
@bh69videa I agree. Generally, you need to have a great pre amp. The output gain must be enough to properly drive the amps, or you will lose dynamics. I guess it's through trial and error. I have maxed my active Navis a few times, and it is scary.
Which DAC do you use? I'm researching an upgrade from my Node. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance for your input.
@@johnfoster2592 I have old Audiolab M-DAC, so nothing special
I am on the cusp of buying the Navis , but because of my location , I am forced to discard my Infinity Kappa 9's . Will I be disappointed ??
Did you end up buying?
@@ohnonate yes I did
Steve: I really don’t like active speakers, they just don’t sound audiophile quality!
Andrew: Hold my beer!
I'd like to see you reviewing the klipsch Sixes bookshelf speakers. I'm not really into powered speakers but the Sixes look really good. I wish klipsch would make them passive.
Visceral or cerebral? Dynamic?
Speaker angling is a baby boomer mentality! Today's speakers don't need to be angled like yesteryear speakers.
Yes it's not DSP but it's ASP.
Why do you always talk about D A converters what's it like with records? that only interest me! can you do a comparison in the future with vinyl not just D A's. But both thanks Steve
Won’t ever touch an active speaker. Just an overpriced computer speaker without the sub module. I’ve had Klipsch THX computer speakers and a variety of other fairly high-end computer speakers... all failed over 2-3 years. However for $200-350 computer speakers, I was ok with them dying. But for $2K... too much liability.
Stuck in the past you are.
he just said that the quality is bad, quality is timeless.
but talking about computer speakers there is no high end or quality there anyways.
Stuck in the past, hates progress and Chang is you moto. Just as expensive if your amp dies so, it dies not matter.
I love my Edifier active speakers. In terms of sound quality at an affordable price, Edifier is #1.
FOMO on tech ATC actives are indeed amazing.
As a rule of thumb armchair critics should keep quiet. If you own a pair of these or have had an extended audition you may have something to contribute. Otherwise, you just waste folks time with piffle.
'Andrew Jones is a brave man...' LOL
I gotta say, aluminium drives are so ugly. I don't think I could buy any speaker that has them.
Nobody cares what they look like, the fact is they look great. What matters is sound quality, looks is way down the list of what matters.
Yeah, not interested in active speakers. Next, please!
Why even bother with having a self powered bookshelf with analogue inputs? Seems like a waste over a traditional speaker that needs a dedicated amp, no way these can compete with passive book shelfs!
ATC must be the worst then since 1980
UniFi Ub5 amplified
The ARB-51 has completely different drivers, crossover, cabinet than the UB5.
I would love blind tests of dacs. My money is that after 500 dollars, things will get extremely similar.
Dude, clean your place. Two, actives are the way to go and finally coming into their own and no amount of old school audio purism is gonna change that. Enjoy!
5.25 DOESN'T woof, it mumbles!
Yeah, you pretty much need at least a 6.5" driver in a fairly spacious ported box for palpable bass with decent efficiency -- and even then, you'll probably want a decent 8"-10" subwoofer to get that lowest 2/3 of an octave or so sounding big and solid.
Clean your place, bro